What’s the etiquette on divorce dating?

I got a note from an old friend saying some divorce dating topics on the blog would be helpful to her. Here’s what she wrote:

“Not sure if you know that I a divorced mom of 2 …  I have been on my own for several years and have been very careful with dating, integrating etc…  I have been dating someone for over a year and am now starting to integrate the kids into the picture.  I have been very slow in the process as I do not believe in parading men in and out of my kids life, etc…

Would love to hear thoughts on…

1.  How long should you wait to introduce the kids to someone your dating? …

2.  How long should you wait to have “spend the nights” with the person you are dating and your kids.  Should you have a talk with your kids beforehand….  Should you ease into it… have the person start with the couch and then move to the bedroom???

3.  Steps to make sure that the person you are dating is a good fit for you and for your kids.  I do not think people think this through…  Can they handle day-to-day life with the chaos that kids bring – from sibling fights, every day chatter, activities, etc….”

So ladies (and gentlemen) gives us your thoughts on my friend’s questions. I’m sure you all will have some good insight into what has worked and what hasn’t!

340 comments Add your comment

Liz

January 15th, 2010
7:27 am

Question #2: How long should you wait to have “spend the nights” with the person you are dating? Spend the night? How about waiting until YOU’RE MARRIED!!!

Seriously. You want to set a good example and teach your kids to wait until marriage for sex (most people want to teach their kids this), but you want to have this guy spend the night? Kids aren’t dumb – they’ll know that mommy’s having sex. Yeah: “Kids, don’t have sex until you’re married, but I’m going to be having lots of sex while I’m divorced.”

This will just cause all sorts of problems.

Momof2Girls

January 15th, 2010
7:43 am

@Liz – you took the words right out of my mouth (fingers?). The message you send with your pajama party will be much stronger than anything else you may ever say about “wait until you’re married”.

Absolutely agree, Liz...

January 15th, 2010
7:43 am

…and, with apologies to “Porky’s” (the movie) – “moral turpitude” is definitely lacking in today’s society! We had this discussion about this time last year (sorry, Theresa) and what IS wrong with never exposing your kids to “immoral turpitude”? You’re going to shack up, we all know that and so do your kids, but it does NOT have to be IN FRONT of them, while you preach “do as I say, not as I do”>

mom2alex&max

January 15th, 2010
7:57 am

I’ll be watching this blog with great interest today. Not being divorced, I don’t have 1st hand experience with this.

I do know that my divorced friends used their “weekend off” to the fullest. LOL, sometimes enough to make me jealous (joke)

Theresa Walsh Giarrusso

January 15th, 2010
7:59 am

I knew we had talked about the sex before — I like the questions about integrating in with your kids and how do you know if the person could stand being around kids for a long time if you did get married? other question I would have is how do you know marriage will be any better/different than wtih your first spouse?? How do you choose the next person better?

Julia

January 15th, 2010
8:01 am

this is one of those.. some think the rules do not apply to them….

Abby

January 15th, 2010
8:02 am

Why do people think it’s perfectly alright to have sex outside of marriage when you’re divorced, but not when you haven’t been married before? Double standard there.

Theresa Walsh Giarrusso

January 15th, 2010
8:02 am

mom2alex — I am telling you my divorced friends have a hell of a lot more fun than we do! it is depressing. if I see one more photo on Facebook of weekend trips of a new boyfriend/girlfriend (lake trips, casino trips, pool trips, other cities) — I am absolutely jealous. When we went to my friend’s wedding last fall for 36 hours we had to use three different people to keep our kids, paid over $200, had a nightmare in logistics and still basically got away on night. Trips are easy with the new playmate when the old spouse has the kids.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
8:03 am

I now have decided I am not even looking at a man until jacob is graduated from high school and he is only in the 8th grade

Julia, it is ok...

January 15th, 2010
8:09 am

…to look and to oogle men – and it may be OK to do more than that, but I appreciate you putting your son before yourself when it comes to dating and other pleasures.

But, do not deprive yourself just because you think it is better for him – it may not be, as he could possibly get the wrong idea that women are bad and gravitate to the “other side.

...

January 15th, 2010
8:09 am

Enter your comments here

mom2alex&max

January 15th, 2010
8:11 am

Theresa you got THAT right. I didn’t want to say it before. But, I of course don’t envy that they had to go through a divorce (never fun no matter what the circumstances), however I am SO jealous of the fun they have when they are “off”!!!

One overnight is difficult enough when we can convince my parents to watch them, but a weekend would just be downright IMPOSSIBLE to achieve! It saddens me, because I know my husband and I (on the very rare occasions we managed to do this) come back so refreshed, so happy, so much more connected to each other. That’s got to be good for the kids too right?

Sigh….

LOL, at Theresa...

January 15th, 2010
8:12 am

…and her “grass is greener on the other side”. Yeah, that single (after divorce) life does seem to be quite a contrast to what most of us do on a daily basis!

Julia

January 15th, 2010
8:13 am

Theresa this is one of those.. the grass is not any greener on the other side…. I got a smile when you said that you were jealous of that life style of the wild friends :)… I would kill for your life.. stability and a home, good job. I have friends that live that life as well and it may look all fun for then but then real life sets back in.. :)

Jeff

January 15th, 2010
8:14 am

As a single dad, I would NEVER have a sleep over and wouldn’t be involved with a woman who would. My daughter deserves more. YOU are the adult, they are the child and they shouldn’t be burdened with trying to figure out the sleep over thing.

I see often that everyone agrees on the rules until it confilcts with what they want to do. Then they are the exception.

Rod

January 15th, 2010
8:17 am

Theresa – they may be having “fun” taking trips, etc. But I would rather be sitting on the sofa watching TV with my wife. Knowing that I’m with the one I want to be with for the rest of my life.

Those friends don’t have that, so they try to substitute it with activities. There’s no comparison.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
8:18 am

Julia, it is ok… I just got out of a very very very bad relationship and yep was guilty of this… so please yall dont beat me up I am doing this all on my own, not to mention now around every turn something happens because of all that…. He and I worked together years ago and he knew the boy – well since I dont leave him alone we all would go out to dinner… so yea right now.. I am pretty much done and I fully understand the “other” side.. we are dealing with that as well – not with him but his dad is a cross dresser

Abby

January 15th, 2010
8:22 am

So Theresa – according to your 8:02 comment, if you were divorced, you’d be going on weekend trips and having sex with a guy you’re not married to? You think this is a good example for your kids?

JJ

January 15th, 2010
8:24 am

Hey Guys, I had to pop in for this one……..I’m with Jack, I NEVER had any spend the nights while my daughter was still at home. I chose not to date and parade men in and out of the house in front of her. My ex sister in law did that. Two weeks after their divorce was final, she had a man over at the house, in front of her kids. Keep in mind, she gets her kids every other WEEK, so there was no reason to do this with them at her house. One month after the divorce, she had already paraded two different men into the home.

I am just now getting back into the swing of things since my daughter is away at college, and let me tell you, it’s slim pickins out there for a 50 year old woman…….most guys my age are looking for the “arm charm” younger woman. Maybe I’ll put my “cougar” outfit on and try to mingle with the 30something set…….just kidding, I don’t want a “cub”……I would like a companionn, one who is secure with himself, and responsible. That’s not asking much is it? But they don’t seem to be out there………….I’m looking for someone to go out with, go on trips with, an ADULT who is my age, etc.
I’m fun, and full of life, and not much gets me down. I have a very positive attitude and a great sense of humor, and I love being outdoors!!!!! Can we start a personals column? LOL

JJ

January 15th, 2010
8:25 am

Hey, maybe that would be a fun (Sorry MJG) Friday topic, let’s start a Singles Friday!!!

Lori

January 15th, 2010
8:26 am

If you want the guy to spend the night, have the kids spend the night with grandma!! I just don’t think that it’s ok to have guys over. I’d have to spend lots of days out with the kids before allowing the guy to even come over and spend time with them at the house. I think a lot of it depends on the family relationships, how old/mature the kids are, etc. But you have to be so careful these days. Whenever you hear about something bad happening to children, it’s ALWAYS the boyfried who did it.

Theresa Walsh Giarrusso

January 15th, 2010
8:26 am

I didn’t say I would be taking trip if I was divorced — I think I would be crying in bed if I got divorced but I want to be taking trips with my husband.

I’m jealous that we’ve stuck it out for 16 years and don’t get to have that fun and that time alone any more. Michael’s 40th birthday is coming up and we are having to work really hard to fenagle (sp) one night away for this birthday. It’s sad that the husbands and wives can’t get that intimate time that the divorced people get.

Theresa Walsh Giarrusso

January 15th, 2010
8:28 am

Hey JJ!! Happy to hear from you!! Been thinking about you!! I had a topic last week that I thought you’d show up for —

Julia

January 15th, 2010
8:29 am

Lori no its not .. its church staff, its teachers we had this topic yesterday…. I understand your point but dont just single out the “boyfriend”….

Andrea

January 15th, 2010
8:30 am

When a person is ready to date again, he/she will know it. There really isn’t a timetable. You know what feels right to you. I think it is a good idea to take some time “off” so that when you do start to date, you won’t be carrying around a lot of baggage.

Question #1: I say after you and the person have dated a L-O-N-G time. You really don’t want to start the revolving door with the kids.

Question #2: As for the sleepovers – use your time when the ex spouse has the kids. Don’t rush it.

Question #3: You should honestly talk with the person you are dating and ask them how they feel about dating someone with children. Then watch and take note to what you see. If the person is obviously impatient with kids, don’t be stupid and convince yourself that he/she was just having a bad day.

Theresa Walsh Giarrusso

January 15th, 2010
8:30 am

Cause Grandma doesn’t want them. parents who have grandparents that are willing to take the grandkids for more than a few hour are very, very lucky!!!!! and need toooo really appreciate that help!! If you didn’t leave with grandma who would you leave with???? my good friend who I feel comfortable leaving with has a grandma that loves overnights so she doesn’t need to swap with me — that would be a great deal — I’ll take her kids for a weekend and she could take mine but she doesn’t need that swap. so we are officially screwed.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
8:30 am

I dont care if Jesus Christ came back to earth and dragged a man in front of me and said.. Julia meet so and so — I will run the other direction. :)

hi there

January 15th, 2010
8:31 am

Thankfully I am not divorced or having to deal with any of these issues, but I think everyone needs to relax a bit. As a parent you know your kids better than anyone else and if they are at an age where you can discuss topics of this nature, go for it. I was raised with parents who might have been a bit to free with the information, but it was something that I have always liked and am very greatful for as an adult now. I didn’t have any fear of talking to my mother about sex or any other topic be it regarding myself or a friend. Heck, most of my friends came over to talk to my mom and hang out because she would listen without judgement and would offer sound advice.

I too have friends who are single and just seem to be living the life, but most of them wish they had what I have. Someone to be there all the time that you get along with and can just live your life. From time to time it would be great to get out and have a “break” trust me, but I just feel like that ship has sailed and unless I have to be back out there, I would rather not.

lakerat

January 15th, 2010
8:33 am

…what started out as a Fun Friday topic is turning into a pity party for Theresa! Buck up, ma’am – life just ain’t that bad (think Haiti) – and all the joy your kids bring to both you and the hubby – even if it interferes with some fun right now. Trust me – it goes really fast, and when the kids are gone and you do have time for that fun, you will say, gee, where did our kids time go? Think Harry Chapin and “The Cat’s in the Cradle” song!

BlondeHoney

January 15th, 2010
8:36 am

My boys were in their 1st year of college & senior year of high school respectively, so the first time there was a sleepover it was at HIS place because my boys were plenty old enough to be on their own formthe night. Now they are off on their own so it’s a non-issue and I’m with JJ all the way :)

Theresa Walsh Giarrusso

January 15th, 2010
8:44 am

Lakerat — not feeling bad for me, know it’s no Haiti — have fun

DB

January 15th, 2010
8:46 am

Not divorced, and way past the point where my kids would be a factor in my sleeping arrangements even if I was. I did love Liz’s answer, though. :-)

I sure don’t envy my divorced acquaintances. Actually, though, I don’t have too many, for some reason — except with one or two exceptions, we seemed to have fallen in with a remarkably stable group. Neither my husband’s or my family have had any divorces in the last two generations, except for one cousin, and in our 27 years of marriage, we only have had one couple that we regularly socialized with divorce. The only divorced people I know are relatives of friends, acquaintances from work and a very few friends from my children’s school (and folks here on the blog!). Weird, huh?

I was intrigued by your question, “How do you choose the next person better?” THERE’S a question worth mulling over, and I’d say that it’s not nearly as simple as one might think. People change over time, and if you learn to change together as a couple, that seems to work for long-term marriages. Personally, I don’t think you even THINK about marriage until you’ve known someone for a minimum of two or three years — it takes that long to really get to know someone, to see how they embrace or reject life and other people, and to get a true reading on their sense of honor. Anyone can fake it for a short term.

And, while I might get grief for this one, I’d suggest not jumping into bed with someone for a LOOOONG time, to give yourselves a chance to get to know each other outside of the bedroom, first. Sex complicates thing (boy, is that an understatement!), and women, especially are often distracted by great sex and talk themselves into “love” when it’s actually just a really advanced case of “lust.” The sexual revolution didn’t “free” people — it just added another layer of confusion.

Liz

January 15th, 2010
8:53 am

Hey JJ, there is a dating blog on here – Misadventures in Atlanta. But it gets quite raunchy and nasty in there.

DB

January 15th, 2010
8:58 am

@Theresa: I know it seems like a long time from now, especially with the little one being so young. But Lakerat is so right — you’ll look back on this time and wonder how it went by so fast. Oddly enough, once my last one started college, and my husband was 400 miles away on his long-term project (the end is in sight — hooray!), I sorta fluttered around a bit, and then one week suddenly realized, “HEY!!!! I CAN GO WITH MY HUSBAND THIS TIME!!!” Packed up the dog, and off we went — it was so much fun!

Absolutely agree, again, Liz

January 15th, 2010
8:59 am

…that “Misadeventures” blog is quite raunchy – it has the same 18 people blogging every day, all day, and it is mostly “ghetto slang”. I got banned from the site because I took one of the bloggers to task – the next time I tried to blog my post disappeared after being “moderated”, and I have not been able to blog since! The AJC really needs to look into what is happen’ over there.

JJ

January 15th, 2010
9:00 am

I meant I was with Jeff (not Jack) in my earlier post.

Liz, been there to the dating blog……..don’t like it at all. You need an interpreter for that blog…….I don’t understand their language……..

Theresa – life on the other side IS NOT FUN!!!!! Only one income, only one parent, and you do EVERYTING by yourself!!!!! I’ve been very fortunate, however, to be in a position to enjoy life, but I’m getting tired of being the “5th” wheel. The majority of my friends are married, and I envy them.

However, I have been free to go and do what I wanted, when I wanted, and didn’t have to check in with anyone, or make sure the kids were taken care of. I had a great support system with my Mom and brother, who have helped me tremendously!!!!!! I cannot take credit for raising my child alone, I had a lot of help from my friends and family.

Trust me, the grass is NOT any greener on this side of the fence.

Julia, someone will come along that will rock your world (That’s what my friends tell me)!!!! But you have to get out and look, and that’s what I am starting to do. It’s scary, but I’m willing to give it a try and at least have fun. I know there are more frogs out there than princes, but like I said, I’m going to give it a try!!!!!

FCM

January 15th, 2010
9:05 am

Assuming younger children (ES or MS age even HS)

#2 She needs to check her divorce paperwork. I have “that clause” in mine. The one that says nobody of the opposite gender is allowed to stay over night if the kids are home UNLESS we are related. The spirit of that rule is that we want to teach our children the behavior we expect. If she feels ok letting her children have opposite gender overnight guests while under her roof or having her children out having sex then SURE go ahead and model that. YES it is different for a married couple…they are married. Kids know the difference. (NO I was not a saint as 20 something but I was not having sex as an early teen either — I was 18). Sex does complicate things. Have him sleep over when the kids are with the spouse on visitation or at grandmas or something.

#1 You introduce the person when you know the relationship is going to go somewhere. Even if you aren’t sure where. It should be a committed monogomus relationship that is on a path to something permanent. I did that and it still devistated the kids when I told the guy it was over. He hemmed and hawwed after 3 years about whether we would ever be married and he had NEVER spent the nite with me while the kids were home. (different topic). You do ease into this step. You meet at the park. You go for dinner. The zoo or something. Eventually have him come watch a movie at your house.

#3 That is a tough one. There are no garauntees. The BF in #2 was a good fit in many ways. In others not so much. If the BF/GF has issues doing kid activities or family activities (school events like the fall festival or sport events the child plays at) I would say that is a flag. This is AFTER you realize it should be going someplace permanent and you had that talk.

NO I am not an expert but 5+ years of being a single parent does give you insight. :)

@Julia didn’t forget you. Rough start at the house this morning. Wore down my soul. So much drama over the request “get out of that bed and put on that shirt.” She was even excited about the shirt! She just couldn’t get her rear in gear as my Mom says.

FCM

January 15th, 2010
9:06 am

JJ girl I have missed you!!

Bobby

January 15th, 2010
9:09 am

Who waits to have sex until after they are married? Very few people do.

I agree with some of the rest. Wait until the ex has the kids and then have your fun. When they’re young, what they don’t know won’t hurt them. I would not have a “friend” come spend the night with me while my child was at home.

My SIL is taking our son this afternoon for the weekend – doesn’t happen very often. We were talking this morning and my wife said “What are we going to do this weekend?” I just looked at her and said “Bow chicka wow wow!”

FCM

January 15th, 2010
9:11 am

“other question I would have is how do you know marriage will be any better/different than wtih your first spouse?? ”

YOU DON’T.

I asked a good friend at my church when I got divorced what she (or my parents) had done right that they had decades and decades of marriage behind them. (Both 40 years or more). She said “What? There is no secret. Bottom line is you pay your quarter and takes your chance. There are no garauntees that your marriage, or mine, or anyone elses won’t end.” She is right people married 20+ years get divorced (my aunt was married 27 when they did). NEVER get to taking it for granted. ANYONE can get divorce at ANY time…Marriage is hard work.

Eddie's Father

January 15th, 2010
9:15 am

the comments in this blog say it all. we speak of children like they are software. “when do we integrate?” maybe you should have considered the question when your were considering “DIS-integrating” the relationship between the child(ren)’s mom and dad? I know “divorce happens” but it seems to me that if divorce happens, then kids need to learn this lesson quickly; just as they must “learn” how mom or dad chooses to move forward as far a relationships go. each divorce is different, each parent is different, and eaxh child is different. as my (married for 60 years) late grandma used to say; you’d be surprised how well children can handle the truth. most parents (and the child-rearing experts who advise them) are more concerned with spinning divorce, or dating or “grown-up decisions” so as to address their own guilt or emotional issues. kids are pretty resiliant. no need to beat them over the head with the truth, but no need to tap dance around it, either. if you love someone, why would you shield your child from a healthy, loving relationship? if the relationship does not last, so be it. it’s not like this would be your child’s first rodeo.

TTPB

January 15th, 2010
9:17 am

I have been divorced for ten years and have not had any kind of relationship. My EX, however, has had over 10 different women since our divorce and they have all slept over. They even take my two kids on vacations … My kids are in college now, but they don’t visit their Dad much because they are afraid of “walking in on something.” My EX never had morals or good judgment and it took me 25 years to figure it out, but I’m a lot happier now. I’m sure I don’t know everything about my kids, but think they are generally good kids – both doing very well in college. I’m just not sure what message they are getting from all this …

FCM

January 15th, 2010
9:18 am

“Trips are easy with the new playmate when the old spouse has the kids.” Yeah but when, like me, you have an ex spouse who doesn’t exercise his visitation IT BITES!

Theresa Walsh Giarrusso

January 15th, 2010
9:18 am

FCM — I completely agree that you NEVER know!! It can happen to anyone, any time!!! I completely believe that is true. No one should be smug in their relationship.

New Stepmom

January 15th, 2010
9:26 am

I married a divorced dad and have experience with all three of these. We had NO spend the nights before we were married-my stepdaughter was being exposed to that at her mom’s house and we refused to set the bad example on our side. My husband (then boyfriend) told me if this would be an issue he needed to know because he had two previous girfriends that would just show up when his daughter was there and expect to spend the night. I was astonished we even had to have the discussion, because I had no plans for a pajama party with his daughter in the house.

I met my husband’s daughter fairly quickly, but we got engaged fairly quickly. I only met her after we were dating exclusively and we knew we were headed for a long term committment. That is a tricky area. I had never been married and we needed to “test the waters” and have us meet, but we did not want to do it too soon or wait too long.

For #3, I could write a book on this. There is no way to completely prepare to combine two lives into one when there are children involved. When you go from being being a play date to a step parent to the child(ren) the dynamic completely changes and I cannot think of a situation that I know of where the transition was smooth and problem free. We are fortunate because we have a good kid, but she does still have some jealousy over me dividing daddy’s time and priorities and has acted out because of it. You have to be on the same page with your spouse and they have to be the bad guy or at least equally as bad as the step parent when bad behavior comes up. Being a step parent is rewarding, but it is difficult. No one should date a person with children and think that fun Saturday afternoons together prior to marriage are going to translate into blissful harmony all of the time when you marry! It takes work to build two families into one and although the rewards are great, you cannot be faint of heart.

Liz

January 15th, 2010
9:28 am

TTPB – You know that your EX has had over 10 different women spend the night with him since your divorce 10 years ago? You know to much, sounds like you’ve been keeping tabs on your ex instead of living your own life.

LET IT GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Jane

January 15th, 2010
9:30 am

Where’s MJG?

JJ

January 15th, 2010
9:33 am

FCM I agree. My ex NEVER exercised his visitation or his Child Support clause……LOL

News…..my daughter met her father for the first time in 13 years, just before Christmas. He had NO excuse as to where he has been, or why he was gone. She met him for lunch and came home and wasn’t overly thrilled with him. But now they have a little relationship, he texts her every day, and it annoys her. I asked what he texts her, and she said “oh, how’s your day”, etc.

She wants to ask him to help her get a car this summer, but she doesn’t know HOW to ask. I told her to pretend she was asking me……LOL. I think a car would be a good payment for 13 years of absence…….he owes her!!!! And it would be nice if he helped out with college expenses, but I seriously doubt that will happen….

cougar crusher

January 15th, 2010
9:35 am

People may be pious about “no sleepovers” on a blog, but it’s my experience that divorced mommies are some of the horniest women on the planet.

And heaven forbid their kids are with their dad that weekend? LOOK OUT.

BlondeHoney

January 15th, 2010
9:37 am

Amen FCM; I was married 20 years when I got divorced. Never take your marriage or your spouse for granted because it can be gone tomorrow.

Becky

January 15th, 2010
9:40 am

When I was with my ex, there were no children in that relationship, so whenever he went out of town to work, I could go with him..We could pack up at any time and go anywhwere..With my husband now, we have taken on 2 “grandchildren”..I wouldn’t trade the old life of being able to go at anytime to the life that we have now..Everyone laughed at us when my nephew had twins and when they were about a month old, we started keeping them every weekend, that was 7 years ago…Except now we get them some during the week also, so it’s lots more fun..

So as for the topic, I don’t know that I can really give any good answers..Like someone else said, you just have to figure out yourself when the time is right..I’m 48 and haven’t really dated that much..One guy in high school, my first husband (11 years) and my now husband (17 years)..

JJ, good to see you on here to visit..Hope all went well for you and your daughter during the holiday season..Have a great New Year..

Julia

January 15th, 2010
9:41 am

Here is a good one for you all. My idiot ex husband was dating a woman was way older than him. She could have been is moms sister. Well several years ago, his dad out of the blue asked her to marry him – at the thanksgiving table in front of my son not even talking to him before hand. The poor kid about had a stroke!

Bobby

January 15th, 2010
9:44 am

JJ I don’t quite understand that your daughter has just reconnected with her father after 13 years – doesn’t seem overly thrilled with it. Yet, she wants him to help buy her a car? Huh? I understand that he’s been MIA but, if it were me, I wouldn’t ask or rely on him for ANYTHING! That dud is a schmuck.

mom2alex&max

January 15th, 2010
9:45 am

JJ you had abandoned us!! Fess up, you’ve been hanging out at MIA haven’t you? LOL

Hey, cougar crusher...

January 15th, 2010
9:45 am

…ever tried to read AND comprehend what you are reading? Nobody has said that divorced moms don’t have sex – but many said that they need to be discreet about it where kids are involved.

cougar crusher

January 15th, 2010
9:46 am

Of all the women posting here who would benefit from a good, sweaty, toe-curling romp… methinks Julia needs one the most!

There’s FIRE under that voice!

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
9:47 am

I just wanted to share my thoughts on #3. I think you cannot ensure that a person is a good fit for you and/or your kids. Life is long, emotional and complicated.

Ironically, the same thing that ends your first marriage, ends 2nd marriage as well. So perhaps instead of asking “how can i find a person that better fits me and kids” we should be asking “what can i learn and how can i change to ensure my 2nd marriage does not fail”. It takes 2 people to create a marriage, it takes two people to end it. U

cougar crusher

January 15th, 2010
9:48 am

Like chewing gum and walking, I can only process one task at a time.

(very much like the IT guys I work with)

Dang, Julia...

January 15th, 2010
9:49 am

…did your ex ask the sister to marry him, or his mother’s sister, or was it your ex’s dad who asked the ex’s girl friend to marry him, or did he ask your sister to marry him? I’m so confused…..

Jane

January 15th, 2010
9:51 am

Is “cougar crusher” the “MILF Hunter”s new name?

Same raging hormones (probably with little else to back it up!).

Julia

January 15th, 2010
9:53 am

cougar crusher shut up perv!

cougar crusher

January 15th, 2010
9:56 am

I’m not much of a hunter. It’s really more of a tag-and-release program.

Fish in a barrel, really.

And hey, I’m not complaining either. I’m glad women are empowered to just find a ride they like & hop on whenever they want!

Julia

January 15th, 2010
9:57 am

Dang, Julia… his now wife is 15 years older than he is. His mom was 19 when she had him…… he married her to replace his own mom and she married him.. to raise another child :)

cougar crusher

January 15th, 2010
10:00 am

But for the record, I too was confused by Julia’s story.

The way it was written, her ex’s dad asked her ex’s girlfriend to marry HIM (instead of the ex).

No surprise though. I was lurking the other day during the steroid comments & clear cogent storytelling wasn’t Julia’s strong suit then, either!

Jane

January 15th, 2010
10:02 am

Rod, I LOVE your 8:17 response. Sound like a great guy! I usually find guys like cougar crusher instead (and have to throw-up).

JesusFreak

January 15th, 2010
10:03 am

Had the experience of dating a man that my kids couldn’t stand and he obviously didn’t enjoy their presence. Glad I got my kids involved early on as I was able to move on and not waste more time on that relationship. My next date came about because of a company picnic for the whole family, we were both employed at the same place, and my kids took to him right away. By the time we started dating, everyone was comfortable as a group and it has been a relationship that lasted, we’ll be celebrating our 10th wedding anniversary in a few weeks. Moral of the story: the kids (ages 8 and 9 1/2) ended up being a good weathervane of sorts…

Liz

January 15th, 2010
10:05 am

Julia – so your son’s dad (your ex) is a cross-dresser and just married a woman 15 years older than he is?

JJ

January 15th, 2010
10:05 am

Tag and release…..now THAT’s funny!!!!

Liz

January 15th, 2010
10:07 am

JesusFreak – your kids were 8 and 9 1/2 at the time you started dating the guy, right?

Julia

January 15th, 2010
10:08 am

Becky

January 15th, 2010
10:10 am

@JJ, I have 2 nephews (40 & 38), they have only met their “Dad” maybe 2-3 times..One time the “Dad” gave the youngest (at 14) a pack of cigarettes to hold for him..Had drugs in the box..When the older brother broke his back and told his “Dad” that he would have to be in a wheelchair for the rest of his life, he was told, I know how you feel, I broke my leg once..So good luck to your daughter having a relationship with her Dad..

@Liz, as for TTPB knowing that her ex has had 10 women sllep over, that isn’t hard to do, especially when there are kids invovled..I’ve been divorced from my ex for 17 years now & as I said there were no kids..I know that he has been married 3 times since then and has had about 4 other female friends..I divorced him, not some of our friends and not his family that I love..I have a 37 year old stepson by the ex that I still see and talk to..He still tells people that I am his “Mom”..

Brannon

January 15th, 2010
10:12 am

And always remember to take the swing down BEFORE the kids get home. (You do NOT want to walk in and find them playing on it!:O)

BJ

January 15th, 2010
10:14 am

I’m divorced (not of my own desire) – and just don’t date. I’ve got a young son at home and don’t feel like being thrown into the fire of all the chaos dating can bring with it. I’m also not really interested. It takes too much energy and I expended all of that trying to keep my 20+ year marriage together. BUT, to answer your questions:

1) There’s no reason to keep the person you’re dating from your kids at all. If it’s casual, then they won’t see very much of him. If it gets serious, he’ll become more of staple around your house. Just talk to your kids about your life and that you’re dating now. And if/when someone becomes an important part of your life — they’ll know it.

2) Wait till marriage. If you’re not gong to do that – then you still want to set a good example for your kids, don’t do overnights with your new guy when the kids are home. NEVER, EVER, EVER.

3) If you develop a relationship with this person over time, then they should be spending time with you and your kids on a regular basis anyway. By the time it starts to “get serious,” then you should already know if they’re a good fit for your kids AND you.

ldr

January 15th, 2010
10:24 am

If you want to have a spend the night I would suggest at this time only on the weekends the kids may be doing the divorced visitation. (if that is your scenario. ) I wouldn’t make it a home happening until I DO’s have been said and sealed.

BMK

January 15th, 2010
10:46 am

My brother married a woman who turned out to be a mental health disaster. But since they had two young children, he was determined to keep the home together at least until they were older.

She had a good paying job, though. But when he lost his job and was unemployed for a few months, she wanted a separation. My niece and nephew, both pre-teens, were devastated.

This eventually led to a divorce with joint custody. My ex-sister-in-law initially insisted on a no-sleepover clause in the divorce agreement — her facade was always that of a holy roller. But my brother thought the clause was a very good idea. However, she changed her mind before everything was finalized and started begging out of it.

Within a week after the divorce, her kids reported that she was cuddled up on their couch making sweet talk to a man she had obviously been involved with at least for a while. They were already overwhelmed with the divorce, so they were mortified.

A few months later, she married the man, and he moved in with them along with his 17-year-old son. At this point, the kids had so much resentment toward her they were constantly telling my mother (their grandmother) how much they hated their mother.

And if things weren’t bad enough… It finally comes out through this man’s ex-wife that my ex-sister-in-law had been involved with him about six months before she and my brother separated. My niece and nephew tolerate her, nothing more, as the biggest burden they have to bear.

Her family is well-to-do, and she actually does not give the appearance of white trash. But she is definitely a Southern Baptist Princess.

My brother is actually quite attractive, but he’s avoided any kind of romantic involvement even though opportunities have come along. The kids are in the 8th & 9th grades now, and he adamantly doesn’t want to complicate their lives any more than the usual high level of chaos of having to deal with their mother.

My niece and nephew are both incredibly impressive young people. They deserved a lot more consideration than they got, and they deserved a much happier childhood.

After the complete inconsideration my ex-sister-in-law has had for her own children, I am absolutely thrilled to read of people on this blog devoted to their children with love and common sense. Best wishes to you all!

Julia

January 15th, 2010
10:51 am

BMK not all Southern Baptist women / princess are white trash..

fyi

January 15th, 2010
10:52 am

You people here are so judgmental and hypocritical. I find it hard to believe that everybody on here is holier than thou and remained virgins til they were married and never ever had sex outside of marriage. Give me a break. As someone who has gone through a divorce, I will say that I think it is bad judgment to have someone “sleep over” when the kids are home, but yeah, I was one of “those divorcees” that did have sex while my son was not home. The OP should have a talk with her kids that she is dating so that they understand what’s going on but I’d avoid the sleepovers.

BMK

January 15th, 2010
10:54 am

@ Julia:

Honey, that’s not what I meant.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
10:58 am

I was like… boo! ;)

Becky

January 15th, 2010
11:06 am

@fyi, I think you need to go back and reread most of the post..Most all of them say that they don’t (and don’t want to) have sleepovers while the kids are home..I also don’t think that everyone on here acts holier than thou..I may be speaking out of term here, but most of us on here have more than our fair share of f ups..I’m sure that there are aquiet a fewof us that had sex prior to marriage..Some may of had kids prior to marriage..The kids are what changed the views on out of wedlock sex..So you need to stop being so judgemental and learn to read..

lovelyliz

January 15th, 2010
11:25 am

This is a really sore point for my sister.

She and ex-husband divorced when their daughter was 9. One month after the ink was dry, he moved in with a woman. No ring, just shacking up. When he decided to exercise his visitation rights, he brings his daughter over to spend the night. He would even invite her friends over even though their parents would not approve if they knew of the living arrangements. She kicks him out and my niece is broken hearted. 2 months later he catches up with an old girlfriend from high school who he hasn’t seen in 20 years. 2 days later she’s staying at his place. Ditto with the visitation. She brings her kids along. My niece becomes friends. He breaks up with her a month later and tell his daughter to have no communication with his ex or her kids. How can you do that to a 13 year old?

As for my sister. She has never invited any one to the house. The only time she goes out for overnight visits even with friends is when her daughter is gone and will never know. When ex-husband calls looking for my sister because he’s bored and finds out that she’s not at home pining for him, he all but calls her a wh*re. What really sets him off is when she points out his hypocrisy.

I think you should never bring dates by the home nor introduce them to your kids until you are really, really serious. I’m talking thinking of getting married serious. Kids have enough problems without dealing with temporaries.

Jack

January 15th, 2010
11:26 am

Sounds like “fyi” is being judgmental on the other posters!

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
11:26 am

Just got to reading this stuff and just had to partially respond…the LAST thing I’m going to do is tell my son to wait until marriage to have sex! I’m actually going to suggest to him to live with whoever he thinks he might want to spend the rest of his life with for at least a year before marriage.

I wouldn’t advise him to buy a pair of shoes without trying them on first….I wouldn’t advise him to invest in a car or a house without first getting it inspected…why would I suggest to him to commit to the rest of his life with someone without first making sure they are compatible living together and having intimate physical relations?

On the subject at hand, if I got divorced, I think I would keep my romantic life VERY separate from my son until he got to an age where he understood the dynamics of romantic relationships better. The bottom line is I wouldn’t get into any relationship or engage in any activities that gave him the impression that my relationship with him was not the first priority in my life. And I would live by that creed too..which I assume would limit how interesting I was to a woman anyhow!

bob

January 15th, 2010
11:32 am

Men of a certain age don’t want to date you for 3 years and not get laid. If that’s what you’re expecting prepare to get dropped like an overcooked hot pocket at some point.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
11:37 am

Tiger I about used your name in vain but I bit my lip instead. With your comment :).. I do kinda agree with what you said but then there are the ones as soon as they eat the wedding cake they lose their minds :)

Julia

January 15th, 2010
11:38 am

Bob its not a certain age its all… we wont give you that much credit :)

Wounded Warrior

January 15th, 2010
11:39 am

Being a mom of 2, divorced for 7 years…this above is what you don’t do. Introduce your kids to him when you are engaged. Then, they won’t ask the questions of “what happened to Doug?” when you are dating Tiger. Pay for a babysitter and go to his home if she wants time w/o kids. Send them to grandma for a weekend. BTW, my ex passed a few years ago, so they can only go to grandma. I go on dates, and enjoy getting out.

bob

January 15th, 2010
11:44 am

I’m not sure no sex before marriage is a good idea either. I would HATE to be married to a woman I was incapable of pleasing. And she’d hate it too. Some people are not really compatible and it’s a shame when they have to love together for 60 years without that intimacy.

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
11:47 am

Don’t be a fool – kids (if they are old enough) KNOW you have sex if you date someone. Most of teens are on birth control for one reason – they are having sex. “Having sex after marriage” is an old thing.

I think if you want to date after you are divorced, you should not make sacrifices for the “sake of the kids”. Kids will grow up and leave and you have only one life. Of course, there are boundaries, but just listen to a few on this board – “kid is my priority and i will not date until he is out of high school”. You must be carrying a lot of guilt and you will end up like my mother – “i sacrificed 18 years of my life and now you cannot do for me x, y, z.”.

Jesse's Girl

January 15th, 2010
11:49 am

The kids come first. NEVER have a boyfriend/girlfriend sleep over…so many screwed up messages there. If you must have a booty call…do it on your date. Get a room for a couple hours, whatever you need to do. But your children should only see that THEY are your priority. Also…if their father is in the picture…please make it known that you are not trying to replace him. All too often, moms and dads fall out of love with eachother and the dad gets the shaft emotionally with the children.

Wounded Warrior

January 15th, 2010
11:50 am

My comment got lost

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
11:54 am

@ julia…you were just waiting for me to chime in on this one, weren’t you?!? ;-)

cougar crusher

January 15th, 2010
11:58 am

question for the fellas: how long would you date a woman after she tells you sex is off the table till marriage?

I’m not suggesting that people sleep around, but only those who are lousy in the sack demand to wait.

Don’t buy a car without test driving it first, and don’t marry a woman unless you know you’re both “compatible.”

Julia

January 15th, 2010
11:59 am

NO Good Fit I am not carrying around guilt. Its the crap I just got out of… I was scarred for life on this one and yes will put him first… this is my choice for me… I am not going to hold a grudge when he moves on with his life.. I will be just happy as hell I could be devoted to him. That is the difference here….

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:00 pm

tiger, I have been hitting the refresh button just waiting on you :)…

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
12:01 pm

@ cougar cusher…here’s my answer….I would wait until she finished that sentence…then I would stop dating her.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:01 pm

Is there some sort of troll spray for this board??

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:03 pm

Hey tiger, now if you started dating someone and she says.. look I like you and I think this really can go some where but I dont want to hop in bed with you today.. can we really just give this a little time??? :)

cougar crusher

January 15th, 2010
12:03 pm

Having said that, I do agree that kids are a pretty good barometer for any potential replacement mates. Why wait till you’re engaged & in love to meet your kids? If they hate him, you’re already in pretty deep.

I guess it makes the case for “day dates” – picnics, go to the park, etc. At some point you’re going to have to bring your new suitor around, just to see if your kids hate him (if nothing else). And if they do, what other options do you have?

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
12:05 pm

@ Julia….that’s a different question that what CC asked.

I would respect that request if I really saw myself wanting to see where the relationship could go.

the truth

January 15th, 2010
12:06 pm

why are u not posting my comments? Because the truth hurts?

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:07 pm

I dont think you need to take them on the blind date but really dont have them interact – do you not talk to your new gf/bf until the kids are gone??? I guess you would wait until you are engaged? that there is nuttier than a fruit cake

Dar

January 15th, 2010
12:08 pm

Okay, I am fully prepared to get crucified for this, but I will share anyway. Nearly two years ago my ex walked…and it was truly all of a sudden. A few months later I met a great guy who was in the same boat. I know that I was not really of sound mind, and neither was he, because of all that I was going through, but we really clicked. And he moved in shortly thereafter. We have been together ever since and will be getting married. I have my soon-to-be-12 son fulltime, and I do mean FULL time, because his father is almost nonexistent in his life in terms of actually taking him out of my home for any meaningful period of time (like overnight) I wasn’t even looking to date but I met this man and it worked out. I know I am lucky and looking back now I see just how much I risked in terms of my son’s emptional well-being and in hindsight I would have just dated this man and not moved him in. Anyway, I certainly would not recommend to anyone that they do what I did, but I do wish all of the “lefts” good luck with someday finding that special someone to love and be loved by. BTW, my son and I have both been in counseling since the split and this whole “living together” dynamic has been discussed and hashed out and we, all three of us, truly are “okay” — I am blessed to have a wonderful son and now a great man to help him grow into a great man in his own right.

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
12:09 pm

Julia – you are. If not quilt, than fear (or both). You may not realize it. Do a mental house cleaning (yes, our minds need to be “cleaned” on a regular basis as i say). List thoughts, believes that you have, then think why you have such thought or believe and you will realize where some of your thoughts came from and that these thoughts need to be discarded. I have done it you feel much happier afterwords.

Go find a man who deserves you. Remember, not all men are like your ex and there is a nice guy somewhere. God made men and women for a reason.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:09 pm

Tiger I can respect that… I at this point.. if a guy only wants a one night stand… look some where else…

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:15 pm

Good Fit, I need time to heal and so right now I just need to fix that… I also need to give my attention to the boy because he was just as affected by this as I was….. he really liked the man….I today will not even start looking. I was alone for years after my divorce, you just need time to heal and not jump right back into some thing… :)

I was not offended by your comments :)

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:16 pm

one more thing good fit, its really just disgust :)

lovelyliz

January 15th, 2010
12:18 pm

The etiquette on divorce dating also has a lot to do with the nature of the divorce. If it was an abusive situation you got out of, it MIGHT do your children some good to see Mom or Dad being treated kindly.

Brannon

January 15th, 2010
12:20 pm

My girlfriend and I do the sleepover thing—we live in different cities and don’t have much of a choice. Her son is 18 and understands that it’s a normal part of a relationship. He also knows that I was on the couch when we first started seeing each other and that there is a lot more going on with his mother and I than just sex.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
12:21 pm

I think wounded warrior raises an interesting question.

Does divorce dating etiqette differ from widow/er dating etiqette?

@WW…I’m very sorry for your loss, btw.

Ezra

January 15th, 2010
12:23 pm

I watch two and a half men and I know which one I want be like!

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
12:25 pm

Julia – if you need to heal, check out this book: You Can Heal Your Life by
Louise Hay. It saved my life, although i recognize that some things are far away from what i believe in, but overall it helps you to understand why you think one way or the other and helps you to change yourself etc. You can get it cheap on http://www.thriftbooks.com

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
12:27 pm

I love Two and a Half Men….

looking to fall in love again....

January 15th, 2010
12:28 pm

It took my 15 year old to seal the deal on my latest boyfriend…She came to me and said..”Mom, I think he’s kind of a loser.” And I said, “baby, you know what? You’re right. Please learn from my mistakes.” It really opened a forum for us to really talk about relationships and dating and expectations, etc.(we would chat here and there all the time about BOYS, though).
My daughter is 15 and her father and I have been divorced for 5 1/2 years. I’ve only had 2 “serious” relationships since the divorce. But looking so forward to another relationship. Won’t give up. And no sleep overs…Not into stifling any sounds, etc….

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:32 pm

Good Fit I will look into that. Thank you, I also went thru a divorce care class that was very helpful.

That Jake is my Jake :)..

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
12:32 pm

I think a sleepover is fine if you are in a serious relationship and you make sure that kids do not hear or see inappropriate things.

FCM

January 15th, 2010
12:34 pm

@ Julia — I am proud of you girl. You do need to heal. YOu will know when it will be ok for you and the boy to venture into letting someone in again.

@ Brannon the “child” in your case is an adult. In my case the children are both under 13. NO WAY NO HOW I am having a pj party. I think it was 8 months before the kids met my last BF.

@ cougar crusher — I don’t know many women who say not before you put a ring on me anymore. I don’t get why a single date means you should get to be in my bed. Sure it has been nearly a year since anything of that nature has happened (when the BF and I split)….there has been one guy I was interested in tearing it up with but I haven’t gotten the guts to tell him.

@ fyi — I admitted sex at 18. I also said that it is about modeling behavior for my kids. When they hit 18 I am sure they will know mom has done the horizontal bop with more than just thier dad.

the truth

January 15th, 2010
12:34 pm

Funny how almost immediatey after i got divorced my ex was already dating and made it a point to me that it was none of my business, which i agree it isn’t. But I told her I did not want a parade of men being brought before my 8 year old son. My how the tables turn as soon as she caught wind of me dating again. Talk about jealousy. You women rule the world with that insecure trait.

Here is the deal as the mastercard commercial points out.

Cost of getting a divorce? Thousands of dollars.

Monthly child support to ex wife? to much.

Knowing that my new girlfriend is young enough to be my ex wifes new boyfriends daughter? PRICELESS.

Caroline

January 15th, 2010
12:35 pm

Come on people… How many of you had sex before marriage? I bet it was most of you. I didn’t wait and I don’t expect my children to either. I think it’s okay for the divorced mother to have sex with her boyfriend…just not in front of the kids. Do it while they are over at the ex’s house. Stop being prudes!

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:39 pm

the truth the only thing you have in common with your new child bride is what goes on under the sheets. Child support is one thing, you did the deed now you get to pay if you dont have custody. Alimony is a whole different ball of wax. So just how priceless is it now that your child has NO respect for you since her *cough* new mother is her age???

Billy Davis

January 15th, 2010
12:41 pm

After 20 years of a sexless marriage it is liberating to have an enjoyable sex life. As far as my kids no one and I mean no one will be exposed to my children. I had one woman say she’d like to meet my kids and I said goodbye. I’m not at all interested in a long term relationship getting to know each others kids. I enjoy the freedom of being single and having encounters that includes only adults.

Dar

January 15th, 2010
12:44 pm

To The Truth – It works both ways, trust me.

Cost of the Divorce: he got more than he deserved from me, but he spent it all and then some within one year and is now in debt up to his eyeballs.

Monthly Child Support from Ex-Husband: honestly, he should be ashamed as it is half of what I put away each month in my child’s college fund. But at least it is something and I put the support in a bank account each month in my son’s name so he has SOMETHING from his father when he turns 18.

Knowing that the unemployed married mother of 3 that my ex was cheating with dumped him when he no longer had all of my hard-earned money to spend om her and that I am the one who ended up with the “wonderful new life” (straight from my ex’s mouth) with a great man who my son can look up to: priceless.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:44 pm

Billy I am sorry you had a sexless life but really do you have to treat women now like a piece of meat?

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:45 pm

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:48 pm

I am going to throw this out here.. but we adults should be able to get this one….. I think we are now ALL way too old to be just having fark buddies…. We all know how std’s are transmitted and to just fark one and then the next…. you really are setting your rear end up for HIV or the crabs….. just sayin!

Good golly Mis Molly...

January 15th, 2010
12:49 pm

…I get so tired of you guys and girls who are on this blog but cannot read and comprehend the written word -Bob, cougar crusher, Caroline, and good fit – it is specifically to you that these comments are aimed.

NO ONE has mentioned or championed NOT having sex after divorce before the next marriage – that was not even the question.

I suggest you all return to high school and learn to read and understand what is written before you ever comment on any blog again! Evidently you were all to busy with other extra curricular activities to get the message the first time!

Brannon

January 15th, 2010
12:52 pm

@ FCM- He may be 18, but he’s still her son. So I always try to be sensitive to his feelings. At least he realizes I treat her much better than his father did when they were married.

As far as the ‘no sex before marriage’ thing…that worked well when most people got married at 18 or 19. Nowadays you need to finish college and somewhat establish yourself in a career before you evenb THINK about marriage or children!

@ the truth – LMAO! Myt girlfriend and I are the same age (40) and I just can’t date 20-somethings. But I had a friend in his late 40’s who’d never married, and it pissed-off our femaled friends and co-workers. They were always on him about “when are you going to get married”…etc. One time he shot back, “Married? Married? Hell, my wife ain’t been BORN yet!”

Boy did THAT silence the discussion :)

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
12:53 pm

Miss molly – do not miss – people also respond to other people’s comments. Don’t read it if you do not like it.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
12:53 pm

@ Good Golly….actually…Liz and Mom of two girls both championed waiting until marriage to have sex after divorce on the first and second posts of this topic.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:54 pm

Brannon that was funny!

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
12:55 pm

Enter your comments here

the truth

January 15th, 2010
12:57 pm

Julia and Dar, perhaps you need to go back and reread my previous post. My son is 8. Sorry my new GF is a little older than that. BTW my ex was the one cheating around on me. I was not the one having the affair. Dont even get me started on child support. I have already raised one daughter that is now in college. So i know how much it takes to raise a child today. We share joint custody with my son, which would lead me to believe she spends as much on him a month as my child support check. Please, dont even try to get me to believe that.
Fact of the matter is, if society really wanted to lower the divorce rate. Quit making it so attractive for women to file and benefit financially. Hell, just pop a few kids out from a few different baby daddys and just go to the mailbox the first of the month.
Most men would divorce their current wives if they received the financial benefit that women do.
Oh, and btw, why was it that she was cheating on me and wanted a divorce but I was the one who had to move out of the marital residence?

Julia

January 15th, 2010
12:58 pm

Caroline if you dont expect your kids to wait to have sex I expect you to be a young grand mother…… :)

the truth

January 15th, 2010
1:02 pm

the truth of the matter Julia, is i bet we share the same ground on most morale issues. I respect and agree with your thoughts.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
1:03 pm

@ julia…love you to death…but I don’t expect my son to wait until marriage, and I also don’t expect to be a young grandparent. I expect to talk to my kid about the when’s and how’s and how to avoid pregnancy and STD’s.

You know what girls I had the most success having sex with in High School…the REALLY religious ones who thought they were supposed to wait until marriage to have sex.

FCM

January 15th, 2010
1:06 pm

@ Brannon I agree—I am thinking you sound like a stand up guy. I am just saying I think it is different if the kid is 18 -21 than if they are my childrens age. Maybe I am wrong I guess I would know more when I get there.

@ the truth — ok I am going to go ahead and say this. BF I spoke of (dated him 3 years and I have been divorced for more than 5)…is TEN yes 10 years younger than me (My children never knew his age and neither of us looked to old for the other…I look closer to the BFs age).

Julia

January 15th, 2010
1:06 pm

the truth well here is my story, my ass hat ex husband was a cross dresser and yes after years I left him. I moved out with the child….He only paid the mim of the child support… Well all hell broke lose for me last year and then he got even more stupid and had me served with papers for custody. Dont think for a moment that I did not use that as my weapon of choice… I knew one day he would lose the last brain cell he had in his head so after his lawyer got finished with him, he wound up me keeping the boy and paying more child support. Do not insinuate for one moment that what ever you give your ex for child support unless its several thousands a month this covers raising that child. Yes they eat, they need a roof over their head and they need clothes, etc..

Why did she keep the house… You let her

Juliahasacommentforeveryone

January 15th, 2010
1:07 pm

Julia, I sure wouldn’t want to encourage my kids to have sex – but if they want it to happen… IT WILL HAPPEN. Get your head out of the sand.

Lady Strange

January 15th, 2010
1:08 pm

I don’t think any divorced parent should put their life on hold because they have kids. After all, once the kids have grown and left home then what do you have. Unless of course you are happy to be by yourself.

Me, someday I hope to find a companion that I can spend the rest of my life with. I’m not going to wait till my son is grown and out of the house but I’m certainly not going to shack up with every man I see.

There won’t be a parade of men in my house in front of my son or otherwise. My son’s happiness and well being is the most important thing in my life. But my happiness and well being is important too. I think you can have both in life if you make the right choices. Communication with your kids is key IMO.

As to how long you should wait till you introduce your kids to someone you’re dating. I would say not until both parties are serious about the relationship, and in a monogomus relationship with each other.
Same with #2, but not with the kids in the house. If you get to the point where you want to live together talk to your kids before hand, after all it is their home too.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
1:08 pm

Tiger needs me on his PR team I love ya too and so agree with you…. I have a friend that is my age yes I am 44 she had 3 kids out of wedlock and now has a house full of grand kids… I just wonder, I realize you could not keep your legs together but could you have not taught them that??

Julia

January 15th, 2010
1:10 pm

My head is not in the sand but I have also had the talk with him many a times… all it takes is one time and you can be or will be a father in high school and I will not raise it so do not get a girl pregnant!

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
1:10 pm

@ Julia….I’m going to take wild shot in the dark here….but I’m guessing that your friend has issues that go WAY beyond her views on premarital sex.

FCM

January 15th, 2010
1:10 pm

@ Tiger — I had a boss that said he always found his dates at the Catholic church as they left confession.

Juliaisnaive

January 15th, 2010
1:12 pm

I heard that the Catholic girls start much too late…

Julia

January 15th, 2010
1:13 pm

Tiger needs me on his PR team oh yea… I do not want to be a grand ma now… I dont even think I could date someone with grand kids… sorry but I am not there in that part of my life yet…. now I will go back to being a prude :)

Brannon

January 15th, 2010
1:13 pm

Yeah Tiger…there was a reason we loved going to summer Church Camp :)

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
1:14 pm

I’m telling you….the religious girls were like fish in a barrel! Especially the ones who hated their parents!

the truth

January 15th, 2010
1:15 pm

She kept the house because the laws are 30 years behind the times and are skewed towards believing that a women can raise a child better than a man. I beg to differ with that and anyone who knows me, know that to be true. So i was forced to leave the house not because i let her, because the divorce decree ORDERED me to.
Yes, food and shelter cost something as i provide that for my son as well. But rent or a house payment is not DOUBLE when you have a child living with you. My ex rent payment is the same if she is only one living there. So what is your point?

Julia

January 15th, 2010
1:17 pm

Truth, I think we do and we both seem to be barking on that side of the fence.. I bet you are a good guy and you do have passion for that… I hate it for men to get screwed for child support and I never held that over his head I have never deprived him of the boy I was always always honest with him on the matters of the child. I felt he deserved that since he was the father… I would go as far as if it was his weekend and he really had other things to do, I would swap with him in a heart beat.

I do really feel bad for you dads that got the raw end of the stick but then there are some of us moms that got the same thing…. so yea we need to stick up and support each other on this which ever side of the fence on this we are :)

FCM

January 15th, 2010
1:18 pm

Juliaisnaive — yes but sooner or later it comes down to fait. So (you) might as well be the one. Only the good die young.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
1:19 pm

What’s funny is the religious girls also had a real thing for guys with a healthy disrespect for all things religious. I think they thought I was a “bad boy” without actually being a criminal. For some reason dating a guy like me who is DEFINITELY going to hell was alluring to them.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
1:19 pm

would you have made her pay child support?

FCM

January 15th, 2010
1:22 pm

@ Tiger you didn’t happen to grow up in GA did you? Doesn’t matter there are probably a few like that every where. For me the thing was that I thought I had to love the dude ROFLMAOAM. Anyway now I know better. Just have to find the guts to talk to that guy who has been on my mind (oh and he would be old enough to be the truth’s GF dad but that is ok!!)

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
1:22 pm

Truth – i hear ya. Men need to unite in this country and fight for divorce law modifications. I never got why women who get child support are never ever responsible to show where money is going. I know there are some mothers who receive a very minimum, but there are some women who collect thousands of dollars and kids see none of it.

BMK

January 15th, 2010
1:22 pm

lovelyliz, January 15th, 2010, 12:18 pm:
The etiquette on divorce dating also has a lot to do with the nature of the divorce. If it was an abusive situation you got out of, it MIGHT do your children some good to see Mom or Dad being treated kindly.

That is a great point you make!

My niece (13) and nephew (15) have actually encouraged their father (my brother) to open up to the possibility of meeting some new people. I know they love him dearly and would welcome anything to give him a fuller life.

He has joint custody and spends half his time living alone, moping around, avoiding a social life, and obsessing only about when his kids are scheduled for their next custody rotation.

His ex-wife remarried quickly after their divorce (she had that pump primed way in advance). Her remarriage brought in three step-children to the equation. So my niece and nephew see her busily going on with her life after she did so many horrible things to my brother. Then they see my brother so alone and withdrawn. And they just don’t think it’s fair that it worked out that way.

But my brother got kicked to the curb so many times and in so many ways during and after his 16 year marriage. In fact, I still have a hard time realizing that it all actually happened.

It seems he would almost have to meet a woman who’d been dumped on pretty badly for them to have any commonality. And any woman with that experience is probably avoiding a social life as much as my brother is.

DJ Sniper

January 15th, 2010
1:22 pm

Truth, that is definitely a travesty of justice. You’re not the first man I’ve heard of who filed for divorce after the wife was caught cheating, yet the wife got to keep the house. I agree that divorce laws need to be updated and that judges needs to get rid of the notion that the mother is automatically the best parent for the child.

FCM

January 15th, 2010
1:26 pm

“My ex rent payment is the same if she is only one living there. So what is your point?”

NOT TRUE. Without my kids I could live in a one bedroom apartment. My water, grocery, and electric bills would be different. Wear and tear on my car is higher carting them around not to mention the gas to do the same.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
1:28 pm

@FCM….nope..not from GA…..You mean there’s another one out there like me? God help us all!

Julia

January 15th, 2010
1:28 pm

FCM amen sister!

FCM

January 15th, 2010
1:29 pm

Good fit — I keep detailed records and they are produced when asked of where his CS check and an EQUAL portion of my paycheck go to take care of OUR children.

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
1:29 pm

FCM – see your point here. But what about if spouse owns a home? So other spouse pays for x rooms for kids to live for about 18 years, but other spouse gets to keep the house at the end? By the way, real estate doubles every 10 year (generally speaking).

Julia

January 15th, 2010
1:30 pm

FCM if is dad asked me that I would point to the boy’s stomach!

Julia

January 15th, 2010
1:31 pm

Good Fit, if she moved out with the kids she cant get a one bed room apartment… they all are using the utilities… its not that cut and dry….

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
1:34 pm

FCM – this is you. Not all women are like you. My point is women are not required by law to provide proof where they spend CS money. My brother is paying over $1500 child support for 15 year old and his ex does not even buy a pair of underwear for a child or pay for any after school activity. She does not even provide lunch money. So he is stuck with child support plus child expenses.

Dar

January 15th, 2010
1:35 pm

DJ Sniper and Truth – Unless you have a truly mutually agreed upon divorce (a creature I have heard of, but never actually witnessed), one person is always going to get screwed. Sorry, but there is almost always cheating going on before a marriage ends because in general folks do not walk until they have someone to walk to. After 11 years of my earning the bread, paying for his spending habit, doing the cooking, cleaning, etc. my ex up and walked one day to be with someone else’s wife – or so he thought, because she got tired of him pretty quickly when he didn’t have my money to spend anymore. I kept the house (why shouldn’t I, I paid for it), and most of the savings (again, I am the one who saved it, not him because he was spending two times his pay every month while we were married) and our son (because my ex is selfish and I know the only reason he would have taken the child would have been to get support from me). And that man took a check from me….although thank God he was so strung out on the idea of getting with her that he only took about 5% of my net worth….and now pays child support at such a low rate it would shame you folks to see it in print and yet he still complains about paying it or having to pay for part of medical expenses (and yes, I make him pay that because damnit just because I make good money should not mean he doesn’t have to have some hand in the financial caretaking of his child). Divorce always sucks for those of us who did not ask for it….or had to ask for it because the other person went bonkers.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
1:37 pm

Good Fit I just now get 833 a month for child support

FCM

January 15th, 2010
1:37 pm

Good fit did you miss where mine does not exercise his custody rights? At first by his choice now by his being out of state. He only recently started it again. Even if he did it exactly the way it says in our agreement: He does not need to keep the same home we do. He has them less. He could keep a 2 bedroom home/apt and his water, food etc would only go up a bit since the kids still spend 90% of the time with me. On top of which he purposely does not exercise his custody rights (he has said this) because of that clause I mentioned about no sleepovers.

Theresa I could get with you and work a trade of time off :)

Lynn

January 15th, 2010
1:40 pm

Wow, busy topic today. Haven’t had time to read everyone’s comments but I have had a little experience with this one. I was in a miserable marriage for 20 years. I married the man (thinking I was in love) at 15, had a child at 17 and from there, things went down hill. Ten years later, I thought having another child may bring a little happiness into my life, and she did, but it didn’t help my relationship with him at all. I had intentions of preparing to divorce him and suddenly popped up pregnant (two years later) while on the pill. Although I wouldn’t take a million for my youngest, needless to say, this was devastating to me. I made it until the youngest was 5 and finally made my move. The first few months being single was hell putting it mildly. I didn’t date but met a very nice man who was just a good friend many months before becoming something more. I never once let my children know that I was involved with this man for the 2 years it took for the divorce to be final. By then, they had grown to love him for who he was as much as I did and they even encouraged the relationship. If I had to do it over, I would do it just like I did. My children didn’t resent him thinking he stopped me from reuniting with their dad and they grew to love him with the time we allowed. Now they look at him more as a father figure then they ever did their dad and I finally found happiness so it all turned out great.

Maxedout

January 15th, 2010
1:41 pm

Being a divorced father of a 6 year old boy. I do not want him to grow up thinking it is ok to date casually so for the moment I do not date. Not that I could with all of his activities. But I have friends that do and I just do not agree with the message it is sending. Never wanted divorced and I believe that marriage is sacred as well as being intimate.

FCM

January 15th, 2010
1:43 pm

Good fit just like there are birthing agents (not Moms) out there who do like you say and give us CPs a bad name. There are dead beat dads (like my ex) who give NCPs a bad name too.

When I met a dad like you describe your brother to be I hug them and say thank you. It is good to know some NCPs are good Dads.

In my case I have never asked my ex for $$$ for school activities, sport events (that they play in or otherwise), church events, birthday parties (child’s or their friends), clothes, or even medical. I ask for his CS check only. As such Daddy is the awesome dude who gets them the Nintendo, the iPOD, etc and I am just the lady who gets them clothes for birthdays and such.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
1:44 pm

@ Maxedout…..just curious…is it your belief that marriage is the process that sanctifies sex?

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
1:44 pm

FCM – read what i wrote. I said not all women are like you, meaning not all women are in the same situation, honest and good care takers.
I was pointing to the other side of the coin – situations where men get screwed.

Abby

January 15th, 2010
1:49 pm

Tiger’s funny. He said: “but I don’t expect my son to wait until marriage, and I also don’t expect to be a young grandparent. I expect to talk to my kid about the when’s and how’s and how to avoid pregnancy and STD’s.”

Yeah Tiger. Talk to your kid about sex and he’ll ALWAYS use a condom. Yeah, RIGHT!!! LMAO

Maxedout

January 15th, 2010
1:49 pm

No…although I am saying it complicates things….anybody can have sex…but it takes a real person to have sex and take all the responsibilities of doing such.

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
1:52 pm

Maxedout – i should write this down. Good one – very wise.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
1:52 pm

@ Abby…it’s funny…that concept is as hilarious to you as the concept of him remaining a virgin until his mid to late 20’s is to me!!!

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
1:56 pm

I don’t disagree with you maxedout…I was just curious.

Good golly Mis Molly...

January 15th, 2010
1:57 pm

Tiger, you arrived late to the party because of the Mountain Standard Time zone in which you live – both Liz and the mom2 were both referring to not having sex AT THEIR HOME prior to getting re-married – that CO rarified air is affecting your comprehension!

Abby

January 15th, 2010
1:59 pm

Don’t worry Tiger – we’ve read your comments for a while now. We know you have absolutely no moral or ethical standards and wouldn’t think twice about doing anything that felt good to you – no matter the cost to anyone else.

We don’t expect you to raise your child any different. Him first and foremost. To hell with decency, morality or even basic right & wrong.

Fine dad.

ShakingHead.

January 15th, 2010
2:01 pm

Abby, there is no way to make sure your teenager will not have sex, barring you lock them up.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:01 pm

It’s not rarified air Miss Molly…it’s clean, crisp air….and I’ll give you that I may have interpreted their statements incorrectly…but I’m not sure….let’s go to directly to the source.

@ LIZ…if you’re still out there, can you tell us what you meant on your first posting. Were you saying the divorced parent should wait to have sex until marriage, or go ahead and do the mattress mambo before marriage, just don’t do it as a sleepover until you’re married?

ShakingHead.

January 15th, 2010
2:03 pm

Mis Molly, I think we all got your point long ago.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:04 pm

WOW ABBY! I’m used to people disagreeing with me…but such VICIOUS PERSONAL attacks when haven’t really criticized anyone or their point of view?!?

Let me guess someone has REALLY hurt you in the past.

I'm shaking my head at this...

January 15th, 2010
2:05 pm

…comment – “there is no way to make sure your teenager will not have sex, barring you lock them up”. Guess you have never been privvy to what goes on inside a prison!

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:07 pm

@ ABBY…just out of curiosity…what moral and ethical standards do you feel I am lacking in?

ShakingHead.

January 15th, 2010
2:08 pm

So you’ve been to prison and dropped the soap? Tell us all about it. I’m sorry I have to explain every single detail for your shallow mind. “Barring you lock them up BY THEMSELVES.”

Maxedout

January 15th, 2010
2:10 pm

Thanks Tiger and PR….

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:11 pm

@ Maxedout…don’t thank me…in case you haven’t heard, I’m completely devoid of any ethics or morality. :-0

Maxedout

January 15th, 2010
2:12 pm

Though we may disagree on some points it is ok to agree to disagree.

ShakingHead.

January 15th, 2010
2:13 pm

Evidently, Abby has not realized that the offspring that is forbidden to have sex, comes home pregananto.

Well, Tiger...

January 15th, 2010
2:14 pm

…you do, on almost a daily basis on this blog, tell us how blase’ you are about morals and stuff – so yeah, you seemingly are devoid of ethics and morality, and you brag about it.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:14 pm

No truer words have been spoken.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:15 pm

@ Well Tiger…that’s interesting….can you give me ONE example where I was blase about morals?

Dar

January 15th, 2010
2:16 pm

In Tiger’s defense, I too read some of the first posts to be saying that sex outside of marriage is wrong, whether you do it when your kids are in the house or not.

For example, Abby said this at 8:02 am “Why do people think it’s perfectly alright to have sex outside of marriage when you’re divorced, but not when you haven’t been married before?” And someone else asked Theresa if she thought it was an acceptable example for children for a divorced woman to go away for a weekend with a man to have sex.

Sorry, but I read the early stuff as saying divorced people are not supposed to have sex…we are supposed to wait until we are remarried, but we are not supposed to do anything to get to the point of being remarried (like take a test drive) so I guess those of us who are divorced are just supposed to accept that our lives are now over and we are to become sexless slaves to our children’s emotions until they grow and leave home and then we should just wither and die I guess. Did I miss something?

Good Golly Miss Molly...

January 15th, 2010
2:17 pm

…actually, I was referring to women’s prison where dropping the soap is not necessarily required! And, can’t you have sex by yourself….

ShakingHead.

January 15th, 2010
2:17 pm

That’s how I took it as well DAR.

ShakingHead.

January 15th, 2010
2:18 pm

Molly, are you just writing comments to see your words in print? If so, please reconsider.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:19 pm

@ Dar…thanks for the backup…I can cancel my enrollment back to english comprehension at the local community college!

If Liz comes back and says her intent was just about the sleepovers and not about sex outside of marriage..I’ll be happy to recant my earlier post!

Julia

January 15th, 2010
2:23 pm

Damn tiger! what did you do to piss every one off while I was away from the computer :)

IF any one thinks that kids are gonna wait til ther wedding night to get laid.. hmm hmmm hmmmm.. Ok I have known many a women who did wait and it was NOT all it was cracked up to be…..

I dont think he was trying to set his child up with a hooker, he just does not have on rose colored glasses…

Yes, Dar...

January 15th, 2010
2:23 pm

…you missed the point of the question “2. How long should you wait to have “spend the nights” with the person you are dating and your kids. Should you have a talk with your kids beforehand…. Should you ease into it… have the person start with the couch and then move to the bedroom???”

Reading comprehension 101 is required when trying to have grown up dialogue as I, as Miss Molly, have tried to point out in previous posts.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:25 pm

@ Julia….as far as I can tell…I’ve just enraged Abby. :-)

I think I might remind her of someone she used to know…..and hates. Just a guess.

Good Golly Miss Molly...

January 15th, 2010
2:26 pm

…now we can add Dar, and Tiger, and ShakingHead to the list of those who need remedial reading comprehension before letting them back on this blog for grown-up conversation.

ShakingHead.

January 15th, 2010
2:26 pm

“grown up dialogue” When did you start that?

the truth

January 15th, 2010
2:27 pm

FCM, a two bedroom apartment is not double what a one bedroom cost to rent. Get real.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
2:28 pm

now this is turning into a pi$$ing contest and getting out of hand

Dar

January 15th, 2010
2:29 pm

I beg to differ. I did not miss the point of question 2. In fact, my original post addressed this issue. It was some folks earlier on in the discussion who missed the point of question 2 and started preaching that any sex outside of marriage is bad…evil…nasty…bound to cause our children to be prostitutes and porn stars. Okay, I am exaggerating, but you get the point. That is what Tiger and I and some others are responding to….not the idea that divorced parents should be discreet about relationships, I think we all agree on that, but rather than divorced parents are not allowed to have sex until they are married again. I think if folks want to raise their children to wait for marriage to have sex that is just fine. I also think that the concept is somewhat dated now that people do not marry until they are well into their 20s and sometimes even 30s. I, personally, teach my son to wait until he is grown (physically 18 and emotionally ready to handle the responsibility of sex).

Good Golly Miss Molly...

January 15th, 2010
2:29 pm

I never said I was trying to have grown-up dialogue, but the rest of the bloggers are.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:31 pm

@ Miss Molly….can’t we just wait to hear from Liz herself? Seems to me everything is speculative until we hear from her.

Good Golly Miss Molly, Dar...

January 15th, 2010
2:31 pm

….please show us where anyone else said that “sex outside of marriage”, outside of the context of question #2, was not right.

Good Golly Miss Molly, Tiger...

January 15th, 2010
2:33 pm

…I believe Liz was first on here while you were still sleeping, and she has retired for the day,and probably the weekend. So, don’t hold your breath waiting for her to respond.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:33 pm

@ Abby or Well Tiger (I’m assuming you’re the same person)….I’m still waiting for an example, ANY example that shows I’m blase about morals. Don’t tell me you went off on my like that and its taking you THIS long to actually come up with some evidence to support your claim.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:34 pm

@ Miss Molly…why does it have to be settled today? She’s a frequent poster..I’m sure she can clear it up on Monday when I’m rolling out of bed.

Dar

January 15th, 2010
2:35 pm

And I also believe that making snide comments about other posters…calling into question their intelligence and reading ability…is not at all conducive to the concept of grown-up conversation. But that is just my opinion, to which I am entitled just as much as you are entitled to yours. There are at least two people who commented early on that not having “sleep overs” should really mean that there should be no sex outside of marriage. That is their opinion, but it is not mine and I decided to share mine. For that you choose to call into question my education (two BS degrees and a doctorate, not that it matters) and ability to comprehend. I feel sorry for you as a life lived to degrade others must not be a pleasant one to lead.

ShakingHead.

January 15th, 2010
2:36 pm

I hope someone hasn’t gotten involved with Molly – she seems to have some issues.

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
2:38 pm

Miss Molly – i did not see your answer to all questions either. Maybe you should have your ducks in a row before you pick your battle…

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:38 pm

@ Miss Molly…you seriously don’t see how the following statements couldn’t be taken by me as Liz making a statement about sex outside of marriage and not just sleepovers?

You want to set a good example and teach your kids to wait until marriage for sex (most people want to teach their kids this), but you want to have this guy spend the night?

Yeah: “Kids, don’t have sex until you’re married, but I’m going to be having lots of sex while I’m divorced.”

OK, Tiger...

January 15th, 2010
2:39 pm

…How’s this for showing your blase’ attititude towards morals -from you first post today at 11:32am – Just got to reading this stuff and just had to partially respond…the LAST thing I’m going to do is tell my son to wait until marriage to have sex! I’m actually going to suggest to him to live with whoever he thinks he might want to spend the rest of his life with for at least a year before marriage.

I wouldn’t advise him to buy a pair of shoes without trying them on first….I wouldn’t advise him to invest in a car or a house without first getting it inspected…why would I suggest to him to commit to the rest of his life with someone without first making sure they are compatible living together and having intimate physical relations?”

And then, at 12:01pm, in response to cougar crusher’s question about how long would you date a woman who wanted to wait until after marriage that sex was off the table, you said “@ cougar cusher…here’s my answer….I would wait until she finished that sentence…then I would stop dating her.”

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
2:41 pm

Ok Tiger – is your sense of humor on vacation? You need to get it back as soon as possible…

ShakingHead.

January 15th, 2010
2:42 pm

Molly – Queen of Morality? Let’s have some insight on your squeaky clean morality.

Geez, Dar...

January 15th, 2010
2:42 pm

2 BS degrees and a PhD – and we all know what BS stands for, and “Piled Higher and Deeper”, too! And you still do not know the difference between “reading” and “comprehending” what you read.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:44 pm

@ Abby…merely copying and pasting my words doesn’t really make a case for me being devoid of morals and ethics and blase about them.

Answer me this….would you describe anyone who believes that premarital sex before committing to marriage is a good idea as having no morals or ethics. Simple yes or no question.

ShakingHead.

January 15th, 2010
2:45 pm

@ Geez,Dar – obviously, higher education wasn’t in your game plan.

Again, Tiger...

January 15th, 2010
2:46 pm

…you are taking Liz’ response to the question about sleepovers and making it into what it is not – that is the comprehension aspect to which I refer. But, that is OK, as others have said, we can agree to disagree, as I think we are both grown-ups.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:47 pm

@ good fit…sorry…kind of shellshocked here by Abby!

But your wish is my command….

A bear and a rabbit were taking a dump in the woods.

The bear asks the rabbit “do you have problems with poop sticking to your fur?”

The rabbit responds “why no..I don’t have a problem with poop sticking to my fur”

So the bear wiped his butt with the rabbit.

Dar

January 15th, 2010
2:50 pm

I didn’t say PhD, you did. I said doctorate. You can look it up, or I can save you the time and say that doctorate does not always mean PhD. And at the end of my post I very clearly stated that you were questioning my “ability to comprehend.” I very much understand the difference, although I admit to have shorthanded it earlier in the post as “reading ability.” You still do not explain your need to go about attacking people on the board. It really isn’t worth any more of my time to try to figure that one out, but I hope you are able to find the answer someday and then perhaps move beyond it.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:50 pm

@ again tiger…all I’m saying is that I feel that there were enough people who thought she meant something different than what you think she meant. I’m not saying I’m right. I’m saying I may be right and it’s easy enough to clear up once we hear from Liz. If she says you’re right…I’ll recant…heck, I’ll even apologize. I’m wondering though…If she’s says that Dar, shaking head, and I were right, will you provide us the same courtesy?

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
2:53 pm

Tiger Needs me on his PR team – that is funny…

I was referring in my post to 2>39 pm posting by “OK, Tiger”. Seems he/she has no sense of humor.

Again, Tiger...

January 15th, 2010
2:54 pm

“Answer me this….would you describe anyone who believes that premarital sex before committing to marriage is a good idea as having no morals or ethics. Simple yes or no question.”

That is not a yes or no question in the context of what you asked previously regarding proof that you had a blase’ attitude toward morals – at 2:15pm you wrote – “@ Well Tiger…that’s interesting….can you give me ONE example where I was blase about morals?”

Hence, it is the response that question that was given that you are now trying justify as you are now in the backpedal zone!

Dar

January 15th, 2010
2:55 pm

@ Again, Tiger. That is the problem. You are assuming that your comprehension of those earlier comments is the correct one and thus those of us who did not comprehend them the way you did must be ignorant. Nobody except Liz knows what she really meant, and because there have been at least two different interpretations of her comments expressed on the boards today I would say that her comments were thus not clear enough for anyone to be sure…except her. And if she comes back and says “I did not mean all sex outside of marriage is wrong” then we will all know what she meant. But we don’t know for sure what she meant and it led to, in my opinion, a very nice grown-up discussion before you decided that degrading the people engaging in the discussion was more important than the subject of the discussion and allowing others to engage in it.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
2:56 pm

ohhhh….whew! I can deal with being accused of being a slug…but a humorless slug really bugs me!

ShakingHead.

January 15th, 2010
2:56 pm

UNCLE!! This Molly is a friggen fruitloop. Later peeps.

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
2:57 pm

Again, Tiger – you need to decompress….

Julia

January 15th, 2010
2:58 pm

yea tiger you just have NO sense of humor dude :)

Yall have a great weekend… (((HUGS)))

Dar

January 15th, 2010
2:59 pm

If it means anything, Tiger, I do not think that you are humorless.

Well, Dar...

January 15th, 2010
2:59 pm

..I will admit that I am stumped by your “doctorate” comment; if your are not a MD, DMD, DVM, PhD, JD (not really a doctorate) or DO, then what other kind of “doctorate” is there (unless it is a(n) “honorary doctorate”?

Dar

January 15th, 2010
3:02 pm

@ Well, Dar. You are misstating what I said. You said that I had a PhD and it meant “Piled Higher and Deeper”. I stated that doctorate can mean something besides a PhD. Now you come back with a laundry list of doctorates and state that you do not understand what I mean if I do not have one of those degrees. In response I will tell you that yes I do have one of the degrees in your list.

Good Golly, Tiger...

January 15th, 2010
3:03 pm

…If the real Liz says she meant what you and maybe 2 – 3 others thought, then I will absolutely own up to being incorrect about you and Dar, and ShakingHead, anyone else I may have falslely(sp) accused of not understanding what she was trying to say at about 7am this morning.

And, no, I, too, do not think you are humorless – I only responded to your request to show where you were possibly lacking in morals.

Becky

January 15th, 2010
3:03 pm

@Tiger, I think you are adorable..No, I’m not trying to step on your toes Julia, I just think that maybe you and I are the only one that gets Tigers humor..

I met my now husbands son (he was 9 at the time) about 3 months after we started dating..He met his Mothers new husband prior to his parents even spliting up..As for child support, my ex left her a house that was paid for, a car that was paid for, he paid off all of her CCs..She wanted $1200 per month CS, wanted him to pay all of her incoming bills for the first year of their divorce, so that she could get back on her feet..So, yes there are some women out there that want more than they should get..Have a corworker that gets $25.00 per week for three kids and her ex thinks he pays to much..

That's enough

January 15th, 2010
3:05 pm

take it to a private blog tiger, dar and everyone arguing, this is looking like the MIA blog except for the correct english/grammer

Thanks, Dar...

January 15th, 2010
3:06 pm

…but I really think we are splitting hairs on the “doctorate” aspect. Would you not agree that in most academic areas, the term “doctorate” refers to PhD’s, while the other laundry list of doctor degrees I listed (except the honorary and JD) are referred to as just “doctor” degrees?

Again, as I said to Tiger, we may be just agreeing to disagree.

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
3:10 pm

Just to clarify – i was not saying that “Tiger needs me on his PR team” has no humor. I think we can all agree on that…. I meant that “Ok, Tiger” poster has no humor. Too many similar names…..

Dar

January 15th, 2010
3:12 pm

That’s enough….you are correct. We are done…after I say this…all of those other degrees are referred to as professional doctorates because they do not require a thesis. They are still doctorates, at least in the US and Canada. We are still talking a lot of post-undergraduate time and effort to earn each of them and I think that anyone who attains any one of them (except honorary), should be presumed to have some grasp on reading comprehension. Over and Out.

Good Fit

January 15th, 2010
3:13 pm

@ Becky – Tell your co-worker to go to court and determine/enforce child support. Guy needs to get in touch with reality. I am sure he will be ordered to pay more than that. It does not take much to file a claim.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
3:14 pm

@Again, Tiger….let me get this straight.

I share that I am going to advise my son against waiting until marriage to have sex. I illustrate my opinion with other, everyday, examples of financial and emotional investments that I would also advise him against doing before he was absolutely sure that the commit was the right one.

i go to say, quite honestly, that I would not date a woman with the edict that she will NOT be having sex before marriage, which I admit is not congruent with my beliefs of learning EVERYTHING you can possibly learn about your partner before committing yourself the rest of your life with them.

You believe those examples qualify me as having no morals?

And for the record..I’m not backtracking on anything…I stand by those statements and didn’t say one thing I don’t believe.

Becky

January 15th, 2010
3:20 pm

@Good Fit, she’s over worrying about it now, as her 2 boys of over 18 and the daughter jsut turned 15..Her ex has been in/out (mostly in) jail since they divorced..She doesn’t qualify for any government help because they tell her that she makes to much money..So I think she just doesn’t care anymore..Thanks for the suggestion though..

MomsRule

January 15th, 2010
3:24 pm

@ Becky, please add me to your list of “gets Tigers humor.”

….good times…good times

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
3:24 pm

by the way Becky..thanks for the support…..I didn’t see it at first…too busy wiping the tears from my eyes from all the weeping I’ve been going through since Abby attacked my verbally!

I’ll be back in a little bit…I need to go have a good cry.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
3:28 pm

Awwww…..you guys are gonna make me blush!

Yes, Tiger...

January 15th, 2010
3:28 pm

…and even Dar might agree with this, in the world of academia, what you describe is a belief in “situational ethics” – right or wrong, you want things as you want them, not necessarily related to what may be right or wrong to everyone else.

And, I am not saying you are right or wrong in your beliefs – I was only responding to your request that someone point out where you maight be devoid of ethics or morals. As Jerry Seinfeld might say “Not that there is anything wrong with that”!

And, Tiger...

January 15th, 2010
3:29 pm

…I am not Abby!

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
3:38 pm

@And, Tiger…are you “ok tiger” too? Just like to know who I’m arguing with.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
3:43 pm

@And, Tiger…I have a question that might end this little spat. Is your beef with me that I’m blase or are you on “Team Abby” with the presumption that I

“have absolutely no moral or ethical standards and wouldn’t think twice about doing anything that felt good to you – no matter the cost to anyone else.”

And that I’m a bad father to boot?

Becky

January 15th, 2010
3:48 pm

@MomsRule. consider it a done deal..

Hope everyone has a great weekend..

oneofeach4me

January 15th, 2010
4:02 pm

I really wouldn’t want to be trying to get back into dating right now if I had too.. but my best friend had no choice. Once her husband refused to get clean.. she got a divorce. She didn’t date anyone for about 8 months after that. She did go and have “girls nights out” but the kids were with grandma. Sometimes those nights out involved meeting up with a “friends with benefits”. She would be back at her moms the next morning to get her kids.

She is now with a guy whom she has been with for 3 years. What she did, is he would come over for like a family movie night on Saturday’s and have dinner, but then would go home. He would only spend the night when the kids were with their father, who eventually got clean. Once she had integrated him for about a year, that is when she had “spend the nights”. However, he only spends one night a weekend there once a month when the kids are there.

I understand where some of you are coming from with the setting example thing. But not everyone is okay with not having sex or companionship. And to be honest, I am not going to say what I would do unless I am or have been in that situation.

FCM

January 15th, 2010
4:14 pm

I never said it was double…I said it cost less to rent a single.

motherjanegoose

January 15th, 2010
4:20 pm

WOW…I have been out all day and see you guys have REALLY been busy!

I do not know much about divorce as we have virtually no cases in either side of our family.
Maybe luck or maybe just plain stubborn.

I have learned a lot today, as I have read most of the comments in one sitting and my eyes are crossed. Those who post their name as being related to a previous blogger really confuse me…am I the only one?

i.e. and tiger or good golly tiger or thanks dar or well dar

it is obviously up to you how you post your name but it would be easier ( to me) if some of you just went with:
“polka dotted ladybug” or “neon shoelace”. I am trying to figure out who is attacking whom and why and it is really stretching my 50 year old brain cells….lol. Maybe I am the only one who is wondering what is up with that.

“tis true, I have not been on the sidewalk of divorce and thus I have no personal words of wisdom

Have a nice weekend all!

New Stepmom

January 15th, 2010
4:50 pm

@ The Truth and Good Fit, you guys got the same deal my husband got! I feel for both of you. We pay a lot of child support each month and see no evidence of any of being spent on my step child and it is a real shame. We also keep a completely separate wardrobe at our home since her mom will not allow her to bring any clothes with her (I think it is because there are so few since mom spends the money on herself) and have her up to 2 weeks some months and the child support payment stays the same.

My hope is that each of you find happiness. It will help your children see the workings of a good relationship and will teach them that you can have a mate that you are happy with. Thank you for sticking up for the guys. I think that there are as many good men who get raw deals like you describe as there are good women who are taken advantage of by lousy ex spouses. Unfortunately, it makes a better story for the man to be the ogre and the women to be the damsel in distress so that is what most perceive as the story with most divorces.

Julia

January 15th, 2010
4:52 pm

Tiger you CRACK me up!!!

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
4:53 pm

thanks Julia!!!! Maybe I’m just misunderstood! ;-)

Brannon

January 15th, 2010
4:58 pm

I think we remember that it’s not just about sex, it’s also about involvement with the child. In the past, I’ve dated women with kids and it was a mistake to spend time with the child too early in the relationship. You and they get attached, which is tough if things don’t work out with you and Mom. Younger kids, especially have a tough time understanding why you won’t be coming around anymore.

Denise

January 15th, 2010
5:02 pm

My parents divorced each other TWICE so I can speak from a “child’s” perspective. The first time I was six and I met my father’s girlfriends. Yes, I meant to make that plural because he had two at the time. He didn’t know that we understood what was going on until I said something about one to the other. That was the end of me meeting any of his women until I was in college, after the 2nd divorce. Even then there was no sleeping over. My father remarried in 2008 but I never heard tell of him having sleep-overs with her with “Kids” (her youngest is 26 so not really a child, right) at either house. My mother was another story. I met several of her boyfriends. I’m not sure how long they had been dating before we met them so I can’t speak on the “too soon” piece. But I will say that I was confused as to why this one guy would spend the night. (I was about 10.) I didn’t really like that but it could have been that I didn’t like any man besides my daddy.

In all and as an adult, I can appreciate how both of them decided to handle it. I don’t believe that you need to expose your kids to everything and everybody but I also don’t believe that any single parent should put his or her needs for companionship on the back burner to focus solely on the children. Had they stayed married the kid wouldn’t be getting 100% focus so why must they now? I say be fair to and considerate of the children’s feelings. Make sure they know that they are a priority BUT that mama and daddy have to have time to themselves and may eventually get involved in a relationship. Don’t put some random woman/man above your kids but still enjoy life as a person not just as a parent.

Wounded Warrior

January 15th, 2010
6:00 pm

@ Tiger. I left my husband because he was abusive…we were both soldiers, and I got away with an infant and prego with the second baby. I divorced him and then 2 years after divorcing him, he remarried and then his 2d wife poisoned him. Go figure. Didn’t surprise me when she also miscarried twice. I do go out, get what I need and then come home to my girls. My mom watches them if necessary. I have 2 daughters, so I am not too keen on bringing a man in my home that could harm my daughters. I haven’t met anyone that I want my girls to meet.

I only date men that are taller than me; they must be at least 6 feet tall. I was married to a short man, and won’t waste my time on them.

Widow dating means the woman has the kids most of the time. Especially if she doesn’t keep in touch with the outlaws(I don’t…they raised a monster…not gonna give them a chance to mess up my girls).

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 15th, 2010
6:10 pm

@ Wounded Warrior….Wow..that is intense. For what its worth, I don’t envy you..but I do admire your resolute attitude very much.

ZachsMom

January 15th, 2010
6:40 pm

Zachary was at Eagle Ranch and they incorporated my now husband into our family counseling sessions while he was there. Its been a tough road, but we are a family and we will make it.

DB

January 15th, 2010
8:23 pm

@Dar: You said, ” I, personally, teach my son to wait until he is grown (physically 18 and emotionally ready to handle the responsibility of sex).”

Might I add one other aspect? I always told my kids that until they were physically, emotionally and FINANCIALLY able to support a child, then they better make damn sure that they do not engage in behavior that would put them at risk for being parents. I was talking with my daughter and her friends one evening a few years ago, and the topic of babies came up. One of them flat-out asked me “when do *you* think a person should first go all the way?” I think I surprised her when I said that no one should have sex until they were physically, emotionally and financially able to be responsible for the results of a pregnancy without help from their parents or the government. The girls sorta tittered, and one of them really, honestly commented, “What does sex have to do with babies?” It finally hit her, and you could see the look on her face when she put two and two together. And these are generally considered to be SMART girls. *sigh* Being a responsible parent shouldn’t start off with irresponsible behavior, and a child shouldn’t be disadvantaged simply because their parents got carried away by hormones. Sex is designed to create babies, and if you do it enough, you WILL get pregnant (”you” being either boy or girl), all things being equal/normal.

I think a lot of parents tiptoe around the baby issue, and get lost in the “moral vs. immoral” aspects of sex, biology, etc. and forget the major reason not to engage in sex — which is not to have a baby that you aren’t ready for.

itpdude

January 15th, 2010
9:46 pm

There is no way I would bother with a woman for more than a month without sex. I’m not wasting time with a cold fish.

BRIAN

January 15th, 2010
10:05 pm

JJ I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID.

catlady

January 15th, 2010
10:11 pm

Divorced 22 years here. No men in the house till the baby (who was 2) was in college. Had male friends and neighbors, professors, fellow grad students who were around the kids, but no dating. First priority was the children and our homelife.

As a teacher I have seen too many kids who moved down to 3rd or 4th place in their parents’ attention when the parents decided to date after a divorce. Moving to such a low level, especially when devastated by the changes in their lives, the anger, the betrayal, etc is almost always uniformly bad. It would be great if both parents saw it that way, but in my experience at best one parent is willing to grow up and put the kids’ needs first.

My advice–give it time. LOTS of time!

BlondeHoney

January 15th, 2010
10:16 pm

For the record, count me amongst the Tiger fans :)

MotherofOneAwesomeKid

January 15th, 2010
10:21 pm

I have an awesome kid. Awesome as in good grades, independent, polite, solid sense of self, in gifted and several afterschool programs. She is creative, smart, funny, and liked by young and old. She is comfortable on the playground and in five-star restaurants. She has opinions about politics and play things.

You know why I think she’s awesome? Because I have always treated her as the person I hope is and will grow to become. I had sex before I was married. Most people do. Let’s not pretend our kids won’t.

Teaching my child how to have healthy ideas about sex and relationships is not only healthy but it’s the responsibility of a good parent.

Alonzo

January 15th, 2010
10:57 pm

I know for me dating is a long way off. I miss being married so much, but I know me working around the clock trying to keep a business going is not the key to a successful marriage or relationship. So be honest with yourself of what you lacking before getting involved. Because when it don’t work it hurts so bad. Good luck.

vuduchld

January 16th, 2010
2:11 am

Reading the silly comments in this article made my choice of staying single the BEST CHOICE. People, you got divorced because you’re marriage failed ,now you same folks are trying to get religion by putting in rules and qualifiers on what grown folk should or should not do. If you were so concerned about it why did you get divorced in the first place? And let’s face it, if you’re stupid enough to put stipulations in a divorce decree about anyone your ex is dating then what does that say about you!

There are people getting married today for the wrong reasons and guess what? They’re more than willing to “jump the broom” for a second, third or fourth time. Marriage is a two way street, and no, me never being married doesn’t make me an expert, but I see too many niwits out here who have failed at marriage, then go to some church coming out holier than thou. Please, spare me the b.s. You were a failure then, you’re a failure now and in the future because you never took the time to look at yourselves in the mirror and admit that you failed!

Producer

January 16th, 2010
6:19 am

Men aren’t going to wait very long before having sex with a new lady friend. And truth be told, most women don’t want to wait that long either. Sex is what most males and females want to do once they go through puberty any-dang-way. Take the kids to the ex’s or to your mother’s house then go have fun! Never have opposite sex company “sleep overs” unless your kids are out of the house or grown.

Mark

January 16th, 2010
12:25 pm

When I got divorced, I put the “no man in the house” clause in the decree. It wasn’t even 3 days after I left that she had strange men (several different ones at that) over almost every night in front of my 15 yr old daughter. I called her on it, and she said there is no reason for her not to be “dating”. I had to explain to her that what she was doing wasn’t “dating”, and that it was actually whoring. If only I knew how much of a pig she was before I married the pig.

Reality Check?

January 16th, 2010
12:44 pm

Hi there,

After reading all of the comments about “divorced dating” I thought you should have a different perspective; from a child of divorce.

My mom took care of three kids within no help from an absent father. She put her entire life on hold for us. Now, she is 55, single and can’t comprehend even trying to date. I wish she’d taken time for herself back then … we are (the kids) now in our 30’s and she is alone.

Those of you who are talking about waiting till marriage, again, or not dating till your kids are out of house makes me sad for you. Be realistic. Seriously. Always remember: when you’re happy so are your kids. Don’t sacrifice or pawn off the blame for your fear of a new relationship on your kids. Because if you don’t purse personal things that is what will happen.

Now to stay on topic:

How long should you wait to introduce the kids to someone you’re dating? …
Until you know they are a good and decent person. Varies. If it makes you nervous, then don’t. Wait till you are comfortable. Your kids will react to how you’re acting. If you’re uncomfortable, your kids will be too.

2. How long should you wait to have “spend the nights” with the person you are dating and your kids. Should you have a talk with your kids beforehand…. Should you ease into it… have the person start with the couch and then move to the bedroom???
This is a very realistic question. Yes your kids will be aware of what you’re doing – just so you know. But, you are the adult. Consider your kids, yes. But they should not dictate this. I suggest waiting awhile and introducing your new friend by doing activities outside of the house before you ever bring them home. Let them go on “group” dates with you. Then your kids may not even think about whether or not you have a “friend” in your bedroom.

3. Steps to make sure that the person you are dating is a good fit for you and for your kids. I do not think people think this through… Can they handle day-to-day life with the chaos that kids bring – from sibling fights, every day chatter, activities, etc….”
You’ll know, your kids will tell you. Children are very perceptive. In the same respect, jealously is a factor and you need to help them understand that this person is important to you. Discuss it with you kids. Do you like him? Why or why not?

Active Duty Mom

January 16th, 2010
5:20 pm

Catlady, well said! Unfortunately, not all divorced parents think carefully before they start dating again. My brother and I experienced this first-hand when when our parents divorced in the mid-1970s. I was 5 and he was 3 at the time. Unfortunately, mom married the last guy she dated and he turned out to be a raging alcoholic who subjected my brother and me to 5 years of hell that included verbally abusing me and my brother and sexually abusing me, ultimately raping me when I was 15. My brother and I did not like the guy from the start and asked mom to please not marry the guy. We were 8 and 11 at the time. Thank God they did eventually divorce when we were 16 and 13, but it took years of therapy for my brother and I to get over what happened. Fortunately my brother and I are now doing well in our mid to late 30s. We both have college degrees that we earned with our own money, I have a master’s degree and am now a full Commander in the service, and my brother and I are both married to wonderful, loving spouses and we both have families. For any parent who is considering dating after divorce, it is crucial that you consider the safety of your kids first. Remember, sometimes the boyfriend goes after the mom to get to the kids.

Mom of 1 son

January 16th, 2010
6:54 pm

Very intersting discussion everyone. I’m a mom on a 6 year old boy. I’ve been divorced now for almost 4 years and have not dated since my divorce. My ex-husband hs paraded several women in and out of his home and his bedroom.. My son tells me so and I don’t ask him about what his father does because it’s none of my business. At 6 my son already sees a difference in mommy’s life and daddy’s life. Mommy 7 daddy both claim that they love Jesus but….daddy…… I’m teaching my so to “do as I do”. Fornication is still a sin even if “everybody’s doing it”.

HAROLD K. ROSE III

January 17th, 2010
12:40 pm

PEOPLE JUST DONT GET IT! THEIR ARE MORE PEOPLE LIVING AS THEY ARE MARRIED THAN PEOPLKE ARE MARRIED IN THE US, THATS A SAD THING, BECAUSE FORTICATION AND ADULTRY IS THE CORNER STONE OF MANS DESTRUCTION MEN!!! FEAR NOT AND NOT LET YOUR BODY CIRCUM TO THE YEARNING OF THE FLESH AND MIND, I DID AND I SAW! MY EYES WERE OPENNED TO THE WAYS OF MAN AND ITS NOT PRETTY!

HAROLD K. ROSE III

January 17th, 2010
12:46 pm

AND WOMEN NEED TO USE WHAT GOD GAVE THEM AND STOP ADDING TO IT! I AM SINGLE AND DONT WANT TO BE, BUT I REFUSE TO JOIN A GENERATION OF THE DAMNED IN LIVING AS OTHERS DO, I SEEK A GOD FEARING WOMAN THAT IS FINE, ORIENTED IN OLD SCHOOL, AND KNOWS WHAT TO DO FOR HER MAN IN GODS TEACHINGS. DO THIS WOMAN AND WATCH HIM SEND YOU A REAL MAN!

Julia

January 17th, 2010
3:30 pm

itpdude I bet you get alot of woman to say.. dont let they door hit you on the arss!

Alonzo

January 18th, 2010
12:48 am

I know for me dating is a long way off. I miss being married so much, but I know me working around the clock trying to keep a business going is not the key to a successful marriage or relationship. So be honest with yourself of what you lacking before getting involved. Because when it don’t work it hurts so bad. Good luck.

JATL

January 18th, 2010
8:33 am

Wow -Harold K. Rose III -I can’t imagine why you’re single!

Becky

January 18th, 2010
9:51 am

@vuduchd..Yes, a lot of us on here have been married and divorced, so if that makes us a failure, so be it..It’s not hard to tell why you are still single..If you will go back and read, you’ll see that most of us made better choies the second time around..That’s life, we live and learn..I don’t think anyone put anything in the divorce decree about whom the ex dates, it’s about the ex having multiple people sleep over while the kids are there..

@JATL, amen on your last post..

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 18th, 2010
10:06 am

Morning FOLKS! I’m SO disappointed, I thought for sure Liz would have been on settling last weeks dispute for me. what’s the point of living in MST if I can’t just show up to see all my questions answered!

SO WHERE IS LIZ?????

@Harold…..you should change your name to “THE ANTI – TIGER NEEDS ME ON HIS PR TEAM”….then you should propose to Abby! I think she’d appreciate your solid moral standards.

motherjanegoose

January 18th, 2010
10:27 am

@ active duty mom…as usual, you bring some interesting points to the table. I always enjoy reading your posts as they are thoughtful and timely.

motherjanegoose

January 18th, 2010
10:29 am

@ JATL and Becky….are you jesting with Harold or are you serious?

Belle

January 18th, 2010
10:32 am

Let me clear up a few things about child support. Whether or not the exact amount of child support is spent on the child or not, is NOT your business. If my ex gave me $400 a month child support and I used that to pay rent, the child has been provided for, by keeping a place to live.

If my ex gave me $400 child support, and I put it into auto repairs/expenses, then the child has been provided FOR, by allowing me to transport her.

If my ex gave me $400 a month in child support, and I chose to put it in savings, the child is STILL being provided for.

I spent what little child support I received, on keeping a roof over our heads, and food on the table and gas in my car, so I could get back and forth to work, to keep the above mentioned items.

The money does not necessarily GO to the child, but to provide FOR the child. It doesn’t matter what I did with the money, because every financial decision I made, I made because of my child.

As long as you continue to pay child support, as ordered by the court, you have no say in how the money is spent, as long as the child is being taken care of.

When a house is divided up and one parent gets the kids and ALL the financial obligations FOR those kids, the other parent NEEDS to help support their children!!!! I lost $50K a year (hubby’s income) in my divorce, but got $5,000 a YEAR in child support. a mere $5,000 to take of her needs for one year. Clothing, school related expenses, etc.

AND I had to get up and go to work every day, because that $5,000 a year is NOTHING when you break it down to $450/month. Add the fact that Day care was costing me over $500 a month. So basically all my child support when to day care expenses.

But, he got off easy. While I remained in my child’s life on a daily basis, he was allowed to go and play, make more children, and run away from his financial obligation to my child, and the others he left in is wake. The courts are way to busy with the criminal element of our society, to worry about a dead beat dad. Plus I did NOT have to money to constantly take him to court to get him to own up to his financial responsibilities.

So, MOM’s get the crap deal, while deadbeat dads get off scott free.. Don’t want to pay child support, don’t worry about it. It’s only the kids that suffer. while you are trying your best to piss of your ex wife, just keep in mind, the children are suffering too.

Becky

January 18th, 2010
10:47 am

@MJG, jesting..

@Belle, I agree with you on that part..I wish my nephews wife thought that way..She gets supoort from her ex for her daughter and she will tell you right quick that that money is only for the daughter, not to help pay any monthly bills..I think as long as the child has a place over their head, clothes, food & so forth, then that should be part of the child support..

@Active Duty Mom..I hate that you and your brother went through that life..I can’t say that I know what you went through, so all I can say is that I’m glad that you seem to be ok now..

New Stepmom

January 18th, 2010
11:09 am

@Belle, those are all great points, however there are many dads who got a crap deal too. We pay close to $2000 (yes that is 3 zeroes) a month in child support for one child whose mother does not hold a job. We have asked that some of that money be put away for college expenses and no court will order that and we cannot make her do that. I completely see your point that paying bills, car expenses and rent does go for the child, but expensive clothes for the mother when the child does not have shoes to wear does not add up when the sum of money is being sent each month and now that the mom is remarried there are no “overhead expenses” because the new husband is covering those.

Julia

January 18th, 2010
11:14 am

Morning yall! Tiger have your wounds started to heal from friday :) I hope everyone had a great weekend!

Julia

January 18th, 2010
11:16 am

New Stepmom I understand what you are saying but this is all on a sale of what the dad makes… The more money he makes the more he has to pay. Sorry this is taking away from you.

BlondeHoney

January 18th, 2010
11:24 am

Theresa, why no new topic this morning?

New Stepmom

January 18th, 2010
11:30 am

@ Julia, no this figure was based on what both parents made (I have seen the documents and tables). Mom quit her job $100K+ when the divorce was final and child support was determined. Dads in this state can get a very raw deal especially in some of the more conservative counties. Judges are still working on the formula that most moms/children end up in poverty when a divorce is over with and that is simply not true anymore. There are fathers ending up in poverty due to greedy ex wives. I have seen several wives bank on this and cheat, file for divorce and take the husbands to the cleaners. I just wish the other side was seen and told and it is not. I am sorry that you and others got a raw deal in your divorce, but the stories that The Truth and Good Fit tell are VERY common and no one wants to hear it or believe it. Fortunately, we do have the money to pay this, but it is VERY frustrating to write a large check every month and see a little girl come home to us who needs a haircut, new shoes, etc and know that is being provided and being used for new highlights and manicures for the mom. Plus we live by a strict code of not criticizing the mom, so we do not even question the neglect but provide more. I feel for those of you who have dead beat exes, but it is not the only side of the divorce story and until minds are opened on both sides the affects of divorce are not going to get better.

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 18th, 2010
11:40 am

@ Julia…..hardly! I’m just so tired….couldn’t sleep at all with those horrible things Abby said about me running through my head! ;-)

DB

January 18th, 2010
11:44 am

@BlondeHoney, it’s MLK Day, Theresa probably has the day off.

Julia

January 18th, 2010
11:47 am

New Stepmom I dont know what law firm you used but my ex’s child support went up this month and it was based on his only. He used a firm down if Fulton County.

Julia

January 18th, 2010
11:52 am

New Stepmom, my heart does go out to the dads that are being taken over the barrel on this, it really does…. I was not the greedy ex wife that only thought of me… I do know one thing, yes this was brought up.. Do you really think I would do this just for the money?? for what I get?? that was the biggest joke on earth… I do this because I love the boy and I brought him to this world and this is now my job to be his mother and raise him. I do not think its fair for your income to be based on this at all.. That is just wrong!

Julia

January 18th, 2010
11:54 am

Tiger I am so sorry you were so beat up over this.. my heart just goes out to you, but I was telling the boy about it and he howled… he said you had the best sense of humor ;)

Tiger needs me on his PR team

January 18th, 2010
12:01 pm

Actually…I slept like a BABY! Anyone seen Liz? I’m dying to ask her what she meant last week!

Belle

January 18th, 2010
12:20 pm

The child support laws have been re-written. They now take both the husband and wife’s income into consideration.

My brother has to pay his ex wife 1/2 of the difference in their salaries. He makes $10,000 more a year than she does, so the court ordered him to pay her $5,000/yr.

Julia

January 18th, 2010
12:22 pm

that is odd, mine did not go up that much and on the child support paper, her income is not included..

New Stepmom

January 18th, 2010
12:33 pm

my comment did not post…I hope this does not come up double…

Julia, I know there are moms out there struggling due to LOUSY ex husbands, but as a woman I want people to know there are lousy ex wives out there too that are working the system. My husband used a good firm and got the best deal possible and it is not the money that is my frustration, it is the fact that we pay it and none of it is used for my stepdaughter. We even looked into fighting for custody after we married (consulted 3 attorneys) and we were told we would lose. Even though the mom is neglectful, she is not a crack head and has a nice house (that is her husband’s) and therefore she is best for the child in the eyes of family court. The bottom line is it is not the money, it is that a child is being negelcted and we can do very little about it other than pay our money and hope for the best on our little time with her.

Julia

January 18th, 2010
12:54 pm

New Stepmom I know there are women out here just looking for that pay check and I do think its wrong. I do not like my sons step mother and I think you know my real term for her… I do know that in our case, her income was not included – I just looked at the papers…..

He does get his hair cut because he bitches at me getting it cut. I would rather cut it short and let it grow some and no not scalped but clean cut. They gripe at me over punishment and no I am not talking beating the boy but I am hard on him and they think its stupid, so I now dont even tell them. The final straw with them was he got zeros back to back so I made him write sentences – she jumped all over me that I was taking away from them and punishing them… ok what ever….

You can look at his tummy and see he is not starving :)…

His dad tried to take him a few months ago and his fight was I was an unfit mother.. No but you are a cross dresser and yes I used that.. it ticked him off and now he has to explain this to the boy but eh, it was your fight…

JJ

January 18th, 2010
1:02 pm

New Stepmom, how old is the child. In Georgia, a 14 year can decide where they want to live.

My brother fought, and gained JOINT custody, and gets his kids every other WEEK, not weekend. The oldest at the time was 14 and she wanted to live with both parents. I can’t remember if she had to go before the judge or not, but she, along with her younger sister, go back and forth each week. Their parents live close enough, so they are in the same schools, etc. They go to his house every day after school, since he lives across the street from their schools, and if it’s Mom’s week, she stops and picks them up in the afternoons. Every Friday, they switch who’s house they stay at.

They have all adapted to this situation, and they get dinner with the other parent on Tuesday nights. However, my brother still has to pay child support to the ex, as he makes a little more money a year than she does. Like Belle stated, he had to make up the difference in their pay, to equal it all out.

He provides all insurance for the kids on top of paying child support. But both parents take an active approach to parenting their kids together. It took 2 years for them to get over the divorce, and all is running smoothly.

JJ

January 18th, 2010
1:03 pm

And, keep in mind, YOUR CHILDREN ARE WATCHING YOU!!!!!!

Becky

January 18th, 2010
1:25 pm

What about the ex wife that has it put into her divorce papers that she doesn’t want child support, then after years of the husband paying, she tells the child that her Dad never did anything for her? This happened to my ex husband…He paid support until the daughter was 16, then he bought her a car (at his exs suggestion)..Each year prior to school starting, she was given $300.00 to school shop, then again in Dec., paid for anything else the child wanted to do..So yeah there are Moms out there that only want for themselves..

I was told once by a PI that it’s almost impossible to prove a Mothee unfit to raise a child in a divorce case..Of course this was about 25-30 years ago..So not sure how hard it is now..

JJ

January 18th, 2010
1:34 pm

Becky, if the dad has receipts, he can show the child that he did pay support. Or just tell her. The mom is doing her best to make the child HATE dad, and be the favored parent. So sad. You shouldn;t turn kids against their parents. I have NEVER said anything bad about my ex to my daughter. To my friends, yes, but never to my daughter.

And yes, it is VERY difficult (and expensive) to prove a mother unfit. You have to PROVE she is on drugs or mentally unstable, and that is very difficult to do. Georgia courts will side with the mother in most cases. The laws are very old, and were written back when we moms didn’t work outside the home…….alimony was a biggie back then too, because the mom’s didn’t have an income. That’s why no one really divorced back then. It was cheaper to stay together. Cheaper to keep her, as they say……

New Stepmom

January 18th, 2010
1:41 pm

JJ, that law has changed somewhat. The child can make a request to change custody at 14, but the law in GA was too broad and presumably gave 14 yos too much power-as explained to us. The way it was explained to us is that now, the child can make the request, but that the judge can over rule the request and if the primary physical custodian raises too much of a stink.

I am not in favor of the every other week set up for my stepdaughter. We have relatives that do this and it is very disruptive to these children and given some of the issues she has she needs complete routine. This set up is far more fair to the parents, but the child never has stability and for lack of a better term lives out of a suitcase.

Julia, my income is not included in the child support equation, her mother’s is, but it is nothing because she quit her job, so now my husband makes up that short fall. Again, I would have no issue if any of the money was spent on my step child but it is not and it is a shame….

Again, I know that there are worse situations than ours. I just wanted to point out that the men are not the only bad guys in this situation.

Julia

January 18th, 2010
1:54 pm

New Stepmom girl I agree!

Been there, done that

January 18th, 2010
2:31 pm

Ladies, it’s a very difficult question, but the truth of the matter is you should NEVER have a man spend the night with your kids there. If you don’t have the every other weekend available, see if you can arrange a weekend away with your friends in similiar situations.

I know it’s extremely difficult to even DATE when the kids are young, because how in the world do you get that right guy to only ask you out “every other weekend”? If you can get a relationship going, it’s a little easier, but getting to that point is iffy too.

What happened to me was a didn’t date much then, but found involvement with my girlfriends and my church rewarding. When they get to be teens they will be spending the night out more, so you can have some breathing room then. (Like having any breathing room with teenagers in the house can be possible! It’s mostly heavy sighs!)

Anyway, hang in there!

Been there, done that

January 18th, 2010
2:36 pm

Dear Stepmom. Your comment about what the mom does with the money she get’s from the ex – does the child live at home with mom? If so, then she spends it keeping a roof over their heads and feeding her! Do you think it’s free? I had issues like that over the years with my ex and his girlfriends thinking he shouldn’t even pay child support because none of it was going to my child. Hah! Right! Are you kidding? It costs a lot of money to raise a child and the ex should chip in as much as they afford!

the truth

January 18th, 2010
2:47 pm

New Stepmom you seem to be a true voice of reason on here. Thanks for sticking up for the dads that do pay their support every month and still get taken advantage of do to ancient divorce laws.
I appreciate your 4:50 pm post from Friday.

When my ex wife’s attorney complained about the amount of the support I was ordered to pay. I looked her in eye, pointed my finger at her and said, ” If you think your client ( my ex wife ) is going to be losing money on this deal, then I will assume the custodial parent role and she can pay me the same amount. Is that what you and your client want to do? Is that what you want?” What did she say? Nothing but silence from her and my ex. Case closed.

BTW New Stepmom, do you have a twin sister who is single?

JJ

January 18th, 2010
2:54 pm

I admire men to pay child support and are involved in the lives of their children.

Any man who runs from a child, is a coward in my book.

Becky

January 18th, 2010
3:45 pm

@JJ, this was many years ago also and it did backfire on the Mom..She now has 2 grandchildren that she isn’t allowed to see..I’m also with you in that I would never date a man that had children that didn’t want to pay child support..

I have a nephew that isn’t alloswed by his 2nd wife to see his daughter by his ex..She told him that the ex and the child were a part of his past life..Of courde if he’s stupid enough to let her say that, more power to him..Again, I would never tell any man that I was dating that..Like you said JJ, being negative or ugly about one parent in front of the other one, usually slaps you back at some point..

Mark

January 18th, 2010
4:11 pm

When I got divorced, I put the “no man in the house” clause in the decree. It wasn’t even 3 days after I left that she had strange men (several different ones at that) over almost every night in front of my 15 yr old daughter. I called her on it, and she said there is no reason for her not to be “dating”. I had to explain to her that what she was doing wasn’t “dating”, and that it was actually whoring. If only I knew how much of a pig she was before I married the slut.

Mark

January 18th, 2010
4:16 pm

Oh I forgot. I got even before our divorce by bedding down with her sister a few times.

Becky

January 18th, 2010
4:17 pm

@the truth..to funny..One of my siters was pregnant when she married her ex husband..He wanted the baby named after him, so they did..They never told my nephew that his “Dad” wasn’t his bio Dad..Thirteen years later when they were going thru a divorce, “Dad” decided that he didn’t want to pay child suport for a child that wasn’t his, so he got drunk and told my nephew that he wasn’t his..Well, he had to pay child support anyway..

Becky

January 18th, 2010
4:23 pm

@Mark, you sound like a Mark that I used to know..:)

Never thought it would happen to me.....

January 18th, 2010
4:24 pm

I’m a 36yr old guy & got divorced after 14-1/2yrs of marriage April 2009. I have primary custody of my two boys ages 11 & 8. My folks have been married for 44yrs and I never thought I’d get divorced. I’ll spare you the boring details but hindsight being 20/20 I stayed in the marriage 3yrs longer than I should have. I was convinced in the end that all women must be unhappy, emotional basket cases. But then I met this woman after my divorce that I’ve been seeing for the last 8-9 months and she’s given me hope. I waited 4 months to introduce her to my kids and we did it at an amuzement park (she has two girls the same age). We got a hotel with our own rooms. I’ve been taking it real slow but we have such a good time together, get along so well, are both committed parents and want our kids and ourselves to be happy that it really seems to be going in the right direction.

This is such a complicated question and no answer that is right for one person will be right for another person. My main concern is my kids, their stability, their happiness. It’s so much different dating at 36yrs old than at 20yrs old. I got married way to young I know. My relationship now with my girlfriend is not about sex. You can get sex anywhere if you want it. It’s about compatibility, wanting the same things out of life, enjoying each others company, having similiar parenting styles, not trying to change the other person from who they are. When I got divorced I didn’t want to parade women in front of my kids and I didn’t want to do the bar “thang”, so I didn’t do either. I guess I’ve been lucky and just happen to meet a really nice women that feels the same about me.

If your an adult, you get along, you connect on deep inner feelings, you enjoy each others company and so on, sex is a natural by-product of that relatioship that is going to happen. “Ideally” in a perfect world not having sex until your married sounds nice but in reality it’s very unrealistic. We’re still taking it slow, keeping the “adult” stuff hidden from the kids and just letting them start to get used to each other. If I decide to ask her to come live with me at some point in the future I’m gonna set my kids down and talk to them about it first. If their not comfortable with it, it’s not gonna happen. But I have a feeling if I asked them today about it that they both say it was ok with them. But their just great kids!

the truth

January 18th, 2010
4:26 pm

way to go Mark. Funny how women have no desire for sex before a divorce but suddenly turn into sluts after the divorce. I would smear her name to everyone who knows her.

Never thought it would happen to me.....

January 18th, 2010
4:29 pm

Forgot to mention even though I was raised by hyper-Christain parents and was taught the marriage is the right thing, and no sex before marriage……now that I’ve gone through this divorce and have lived it for the first time in my life I would consider living with someone first for a while befored deciding on getting married. That’s a BIG change in my thinking but it’s how I feel now.

Julia

January 18th, 2010
5:10 pm

Kids are smart and they want what is best for us as well. Just before I started dating this last mistake, he looked at me and said, mom you need a boyfriend. I said be quiet! :)

ACTION

January 18th, 2010
5:16 pm

Sunshine and Thunder

January 18th, 2010
6:11 pm

I sure am glad to hear that there are a few souls around who place their kids above their superficial “needs”. I’m a single father and I sure as hell do. I have been dating a woman for almost a year and she still hasn’t met my kids. And I certainly wouldn’t have her spending the night with me if my kids were around. Sheesh.

the truth

January 18th, 2010
6:19 pm

Julia, where are you meeting these mistakes at?

pete

January 18th, 2010
6:30 pm

well first of all my kids are grown and out on their own, as for the next question introducing him to them if the meet him so well if not so well when your kids are of age they really don’t care about meeting your date cause they are doing their own thing, and the next question about the sofa to the bedroom it your choice, i am not saying to have sex on the first date but if the mood fit then whatever. Live, Love, Laugh and be true to yourself.

Dez

January 18th, 2010
6:49 pm

Love this topic being that i’m new to this situation now…But I can tell that my kids aren’t ready to see me with another woman so it won’t happen. Once I feel that whom ever it is I choose will be a long term relationship and not a 1 nite stand deal! will be the only time my kids will ever see them. For others I would say have a great judge of character and pick the right person for your situation there’s no true time table because some relationship were dead years before the divorce and can start a new quickly.. as others may take time…. My 2 cents

Order

January 18th, 2010
6:51 pm

Let all things be decent and in order. I am divorced and I understand the needs of a women. I woud not have a man spending the night at my home take care of your business on your weekend off while the kids are with daddy if daddy is not present in their lives hire a sitter and go to a hotel. it is not healthy for a man or women to have their sex time under the roof of their children. somethings just need to remain grown-folks business!

Lovelylady

January 18th, 2010
7:04 pm

I have enjoyed your posts. I am happily divorced. I have three children and the last one leaves the house in 8 years (yippee). I have only had one relationship since the divorce that didn’t result in marriage (sad) but my kids didn’t know a thing. I wanted it that way. I needed time to get to know this guy…now I’m thankful that they didn’t know. Most of the foolishness was due to him being secretive about our relationship (he wasn’t married) and me not seeing the handwriting on the wall (I was working and going to school full time).

When I date again, I will take my time getting to know the person because I really want a good husband for me and a role model for my children.

I will not wait until marriage to have sex. That is not realistic, but I will practice safe sex since that is what I teach my kids.

Marriage is hard work but I really look forward to it so that my kids can learn how to be in a relationship.

FYI My ex and I are on good terms now (it was God) and he married a younger women…20s are a handful. I tell him, “Pray for your wife and work on your relationship.”

theboykin

January 18th, 2010
7:13 pm

wait until you’re married??? Losers. That idea died in the 50’s. But for goodness sake go to their place. No kid wants to hear their mom making sweet love.

Julia

January 18th, 2010
9:43 pm

the truth I guess hell, but I dont know how to NOT get around abusers.. Its a new year and a new me…

Regina

January 18th, 2010
9:50 pm

I’m a divorce attorney. If you want to lose custody of your kids, have your new boyfriends and girlfriends spend the night while the kids are there. I am 31 and certainly no prude, but what example are you setting by having different men and women cycle in and out of their lives? It confuses them. And if I get a case where you have done that, your ex will pay me a lot of money and I will get a judge to take the kids away from you. How hard is it to confine sleepovers to when the kids are not there? Once you have children, your dating should take a backseat to their stability. Stop introducing your kids to every date you have. You should wait at least 3-6 months and wait until you both feel that you are in a committed relationship that will last awhile. Otherwise, you are setting your children up for disappointment. Please feel free to ignore the advice. A lot of family law attorneys are hoping that you do.

vuduchld

January 18th, 2010
10:33 pm

@Becky

From what I have seen and people I personally know, they are in either their third, fourth or even fifth marriage. And as for me still being single, fine, don’t have to deal with “second chance” people like you who still won’t get it right the second time around.

At the end of the day if you’re divorced, then you both failed at the marriage, that is why you’re divorced! Don’t make me out as some bitter human being because I’m more than comfortable in my own skin. It’s people like you who are always second guessing and finding the “wrong mate”. THAT’S WHY YOU’RE DIVORCED!!

Where Is A Good Man Today?

January 18th, 2010
11:01 pm

If I could find one WORTHY of my time..I have two boys 14 and 10, and they are having NONE of that..I wouldn’t until they are gone but I agree with most of the panel here. There is no need to integrate them into sleepovers as that is simply saying much premarital sex as you guys can manage! Good to see people still have solid moral grounding!

Cliff DePass

January 18th, 2010
11:22 pm

Introduce children after you have dated for three months. No sleepovers – bad moral example for your children. Replace sleepovers with marriage. If someone is sleeping under the same roof with you and your children, they should be your legal spouse. Stacking up is unacceptable, your children will see you as a tramp(mother) or jiggalow(father).

the truth

January 19th, 2010
12:28 am

Julia, I wish you the best of luck in your search. There are still some good guys out there to be had.
Set your standards high and don’t sell yourself short. If you want to see the true charecter of someone you are considering dating. Loek to see how they treat other people around them. Even a waiter or waitress when you are out on a dinner date.

Becky

January 19th, 2010
8:15 am

@vuduchld, not all of us can be perfect, so climb down off of your white horse..Yes, I made a mistake and I admit it..BUT, I learned from that mistake..I learned that I tried to the best of my ability to make my marriage work, but you can’t when the husband cheats & drinks and wants out of one marriage to marry some one else..I’m not the one that filed for divorce, I was in it until death do us part..He’s the one that in the last 17 years. has had about 5-6 girlfriends and 3 wifes..So be comfortable in your own skin all alone because no woman is going to be just right for you..Come back in a few years when you actually find some one that will marry you and be a servant to you..

Mark

January 20th, 2010
3:44 pm

the truth

January 18th, 2010
4:26 pm
I don’t have to. Everyone we know saw it happening. Her sister and I always had “a thing” for each other, tho we kept it at bay for years. But when my ex started parading men around my daughter in my house, I decided to take action. I asked her sister out for drinks, and next thing I knew we were goin at it like bunnies. This happened 3 times. When the divorce was final, I let the cat out of the bag to my ex and her family. Now my ex and her sister don’t talk, and their family hates me and sister.. I could care less. I win. Mess with the bull, and you WILL get the horns….

Kim in NH

January 22nd, 2010
8:54 pm

I was single for one year with 2 kids 5 and 6. Met up with an old friend, started dating, met my kids 1 month later @ a pool party. Kids absolutely loved him. We got engaged 6 months later and married 6 months after that. Then we had the most beautiful red head 9 months later. Everyone is extremely happy and I am soo thankful that my kids are healthy and happy (as hectic as it can get).

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