A Woman’s Nation: A new report from Maria Shriver tells us just how much women’s lives have changed
Maria Shriver and the Center for American Progress commissioned a study of the state of women today – their work life and their home life.
Through polling and interviews, the partnership has produced a VERY meaty report called “A Woman’s Nation Changes Everything.” Time Magazine and NBC news outlets have been reporting the results of this study all week. There is also a Web site with all the findings.
Here is the web site The Shriver Report: A Woman’s Nation Changes Everything
Here is the link to NBC news with videos from the Today Show and MSNBC.
We can’t deal with the whole report at once so here are few highlights to start us off:
From Maria Shriver’s opening essay:
- … fully HALF of U.S. workers are female—and mothers have become the primary breadwinners in 4 in 10 American families.
- Half of all families rely on the earnings of two parents and in more than 20 percent of all families a single mother is the primary breadwinner.
- Seventy percent of families with kids include a working mother.
- Shriver says “And more and more of them, like me, are moving into what I call ‘the squeezed generation,’ caring for both kids and our own aging parents.’”
(Shriver found that caring for elderly family members is becoming a huge issue for families.)
- …Today, women now earn 60 percent of the college degrees awarded each year and fully half of the Ph.D.s and the professional degrees.
- Almost 40 percent of working women hold managerial and other professional positions.
- Women make 80 percent of the buying decisions in American homes.
- “Virtually all married couples told the pollsters they’re negotiating the rules of their relationships, work, and family. An overwhelming majority of both men and women said they’re sitting down at their kitchen tables to coordinate their family’s schedules, duties, and responsibilities, including child care and elder care, at least two to three times a week. Men said it was more like every day!”
- “In the Rockefeller/Time poll, more than three-quarters of both men and women agreed that the increased participation of women in the workforce is a positive change for society. Both sexes also agreed that men are becoming more financially dependent on women. And both women and men said they’re still adjusting their lives, their expectations, and their assumptions to the change.”
Some interesting stats from Tuesday’s Today Show with Shriver:
- 86 percent of women who work feel like the majority of housework and childcare still falls on them!
However, Dad are helping more.
- Since the 1960s, men helping with housework has jumped from 15 percent to 30 percent.
- Since the 1960s, men helping with childcare has tripled!
- However, 70 percent of women polled said they feel like they alone are responsible for childcare and eldercare. (There seems to be a disconnect in how much women think men are helping or in how much men are reporting they are helping.)
What do you make of this study?
Are you working? Are you the primary breadwinner? How has that affected your family life or your relationship with your husband?
What do you make of women earning 60 percent of the college degrees each year?
What is the work split at home for housework? For childcare? For eldercare?
Is eldercare becoming a big issue for you?
Tell us what you think about the site
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146 comments Add your comment
Lori
October 21st, 2009
8:34 am
I think the women of the past screwed it up for the rest of us. I’d love to be a stay at home soccer mom, but instead I have to work everyday and not have as much time with my son because I have to leave him in the care of strangers. But the whole “women’s lib” thing changed the entire economy of our country and now it is darn near impossible for a family to survive on one income. (If there are twice as many workers in the marketplace, then the overall salaries are lower.) That being said, I’m pretty lucky in that I have a great husband who actually loves to spend time with my son, and is pretty efficient as housework (minus the laundry!!). I wonder, though, if anyone has done a study to compare the relationship between the rising number of women in the workplace and the rising divorce rate. I’d bet my lunch that there is a direct correlation.
Since no one...
October 21st, 2009
8:39 am
…else seems to want to comment, I will – just another propaganized poll to castigate men – nothing more, nothing less.
But I will agree that women make 80% of the buying decisions – what is newsworthy about that?
And what constitutes “the majority of housework” ” and “childwork”?
Cleaning the house (we have a service).
Carrying out the trash (I do)
Making the beds, daily (I do)
Sweeping the porch/decks (I do) Cooking (she does)
Washing dishes (I do)
Doing laundry (she does hers, I do mine)
Grocery shopping (she does, but not because I don’t but because she thinks she is better at it, and I let her have at it!)
Cutting the grass, edging, trimming, washing windows (I do, I do, I do, I do)
Kid sick; who stays home (we took turns)
Kids have appts (MD, dentist, after school stuff) (we took turns)
Perceptions are what constitutes the 86% -in the female mind! I am not saying that every household is like this, yet I propose that if you poll the spouses of the working females that responded to this poll you would have a different % response.
madmommy
October 21st, 2009
8:46 am
First, I think most family’s need both parents to work since you just can’t get by on one salary anymore. If I could figure it out, we would save half of what one of us earned in order to retire since who knows how much inflation will come down the pipes by the time that rolls around. My daughter attends daycare all day, but I don’t think it has harmed her in anyway and honestly I feel that I need to work. I don’t see myself as being a SAHM unless I had a nanny or friend to swap out with everyday just so I can have a few minutes to myself.
As for housework, he takes out the trash and will make a meal for the little one, but that’s about it. Unless you count the 45-60 minutes a day that he allows me to work out, the odd vaccuming maybe once every two months, that’s it. Honestly, I do the rest and I don’t mind it until I see him sitting in his chair, not doing a darn thing, and he can’t even keep the little one out for underfoot while I am cleaning with chemicals. It’s the arm chair ref’ing that he does that really makes me nuts, get off your butt and help then.
I do know of some men who at leat do their own laundry and will do yard work, just not sure how to inspire mine to do the same. Guess until I do something, it won’t get changed. Something else I need to do. :-)
Most women I know do majority of all the work in the home and where childcare is concerned. I feel I owe it to my daughter to be the best mommy I can be to her since I do work and take time away from her. She’ll only be small for so long and my house can be a bit messy in the mean time. (Is there a way to get a man to feel this way?)
madmommy
October 21st, 2009
8:49 am
One other thing, women since the dawn of time have always been the homemakers, just now we have to work a full time job on top of it. I think we are regressing instead of moving forward.
It is nice to hear that more women hold degree’s, just wish that amounted to equal pay or status for men. At least allow us to be equal, that’s all I ask.
pws
October 21st, 2009
8:49 am
Wow, Lori, I guess I am one of those women who screwed it up for you. My husband and I are celebrating our 31st wedding anniversary today, and we have two grown children, two girls, who are 25 and 20 now. I have worked since I graduated from college, not because of the income, per say, but because it was the right thing for me to do. Each woman has to make the choice that’s best for her and her family. I have friends who are stay at home moms, and they did it because it was their choice, it was right for them, and they survived on one income. But some of the choices that they made, were not to have the newest cars, or the newest house every five or six years. This debate has been on this blog many times, about working moms vs stay at home moms, and that’s not what this post is meant to be. It’s just meant to be that it is a changing world we live in, not just in America.
We have instant information, something that 30 years ago wasn’t there. Our kids today are raised on instant everything, because that’s the world they live in. I think every generation wishes that they lived in the past at some point, and we glamorize the “good things” of the past, and forget the bad parts of it. I’m thankful to have been born in the generation where women had a choice, to do what was best for them. I worked because it was best for me, and my kids.
Today, both my girls are sucessful, and partly I hope because they were taught as women to respect themselves, and be who they want to be, not what society tells them they should be.
Theresa Walsh Giarrusso
October 21st, 2009
8:52 am
Equal pay was addressed in the report — I believe that women were lagging even further behind than in the 1970s for pay — I will try to find that number —- I was surprised it had gotten worse — (maybe I heard it wrong on TV but I’m sure it had gotten worse.)
I think when I started staying home with Rose eight years ago, the number I always heard for stay-at home moms was 30 percent — the Maria Shriver report said it’s now 21 percent.
Christina
October 21st, 2009
9:03 am
I think the 30% and 21% are the past and present pay gaps, meaning the gap is closing.
I do agree that men are more involved in housework and childcare these days. The thing is, it went from 15% of the work to 30% of the work. Meanwhile, the women in many cases are working just as many hours as the men, but are still pulling an estimated 70% of the household duties.
My husband is more than happy to help at home. He does almost all the yard work (I do the gardens) and helps by prepping dinner on work nights and the occasional vacuuming or laundry. We also split daycare dropoff/pickup duties. But sometimes it just doesn’t occur to him that I’m running just as ragged as he is–and a gentle reminder usually helps him see that I need help.
No doubt men are helping more now – I don’t think my father-in-law ever changed a diaper, but my husband has changed his fair share (nowhere near half, but he doesn’t defer the duty to me). But I do think it’s a shame that all parents are out of the house more now than in the past. (I’m drawing that conclusion on my own–how many people went on business trips 40 years ago? How many people worked 10-hour days 40 years ago? Probably not nearly as many.)
deidre_NC
October 21st, 2009
9:06 am
im sure this is not always true..but i have seen lots of couples where the wife does more than the husband because the wife doesnt think the husband does whatever it is as well…i see this a lot!! women who do it all need to just let the man do what he does and as long as it gets done in a reasonable way let it go…this happens a lot where the kids are concerned…there isnt only one right way to do things…therre are a lot of women who need to just let their husband do it his way…it may not be her way…no one..man or woman..likes to hear how they didnt do it right…
Christina
October 21st, 2009
9:07 am
I also will be interested to see how those figures look in a year or two. Male-dominated industries took the brunt of layoffs and paycuts in the last two years. As a result, more households (mine included) have men who took lower-paying jobs just to be employed, while the women were less impacted and kept their middle-of-the-road incomes. In our case, it means I currently make more than my husband–a drastic change from a year ago. What will the impact be in two years? Will we see that men make the same as women as a result, because they took “lesser jobs”? Will we see more long-term stay-at-home-dads? Will the changes be fleeting, or will they endure? I’m curious to see how it plays out . . .
Theresa Walsh Giarrusso
October 21st, 2009
9:15 am
Christina – you are absolutely right about the layoffs being mostly male — so those numbers are going to change even more —- However, I bet it will be like after WWII though as soon as they can get hired they’ll be gone again (just like the women cam home after the men returned) BUT I bet the women who started working or found higher paying jobs will stay working —
There was another stat that I’m still puzzling over –And I believe I heard this right
Women has added
5 hours to their jobs
and 4 hours to being a parent each week (I’m not sure what they were doing with that time before??)
Men have added
2 hours to the job
and 4 hours to being a parent
I will try to look up that pay gap– I think it was more than what Christina said –
Wayne
October 21st, 2009
9:21 am
I have to agree with “Since no one”: What constitutes housework? Keeping the house clean, orderly and safe for the kids, sure, I’ll go with that. But what about raking the leaves, cleaning the gutters, house repairs/maintenance, car repair/maintenance, lawn equipment repair/maintenance. Painting the house, trimming trees and bushes. How about that door that sticks, or the toilet that needs to be plunged. oh man, I could go on. I make sure that I spend time with my kids, but it’s between working a full day of work, and having a part time job so that my wife can stay home. I also try to help out with the interior housework too, but… I am still responsible for the ‘outside’ stuff too. All I ask is to take that into account when folks do a study like this and speak only to women. How about doing a study of men? What their thoughts are? When I talk about this with my coworkers, we agree that this is a common issue. I can’t believe that we’re the only men that feel this way.
I am not one of those armchair ref’s and I agree that that guy needs to get off his duff and get moving. I also know that I can’t do it all. I’m expected to be this super-human person. I’m not.
Sorry for the long post, but this is something that really gets my goat.
DB
October 21st, 2009
9:35 am
I think that when people think about Women’s Liberation in the 60’s, etc., they forget the major turning point of the whole movement: To give women a CHOICE in what they wish to do, and to support them if that choice included joining the workforce. Somewhere along the line, it became expected that women would join the workforce, or be considered to be lazy and “non-contributing” members of society, simply because they were not paid.
Men in the 60’s didn’t actually support the ERA — but they figured that as long as it was no skin off their nose, why not let the ladies dabble in business? (They’d quit when they had kids, anyway, right?) But as a result, a whole generation of children grew up watching their moms work outside of the home, and somewhere along the line, it became EXPECTED that a woman would work outside the home. Almost no man these days expects his wife to stay at home and exclusively run the house and raise children. As a result, this is a major CHOICE that has been taken away from women — the choice to be a stay-at-home mom. To stay at home in the 21st century is akin to declaring that you are unmotivated, unambitious and perhaps a little lazy.
At some point, perhaps, the pendulum will right itself and the extremes will even out, and people will stop judging a woman’s value (or even a man’s) based on their monetary contributions to a family. I do think it’s interesting that so many women seem to feel compelled to work, because “they can’t make it on one salary.” Sometimes, it seems that families allow their lifestyle choices to run their lives — do you really need a flatscreen TV in every room, does every child need their own computer, do you need a new car every three years, do you really need an expensive house, etc., etc. It’s sad, that parents have been made to feel that they are inadequate when they are not providing “things” for their children — and yet, those children grow up more and more disaffected and emotionally screwed up, because what they needed was time, not things.
Off the soapbox . . .
Christina
October 21st, 2009
9:38 am
Amen, DB.
Theresa Walsh Giarrusso
October 21st, 2009
9:41 am
Here’s the quote from the study on the pay gap — I was wrong — it has gotten better — I head that quote wrong — sorry christina!!
woman make 77 cents on the dollar now
in the early 1970s women made 59 cents on the dollar
Although women may make up half of all workers, they have by no means achieved equality in the workplace. The typical full-time, full-year woman worker brings home 77 cents on the dollar, compared to her male colleagues. And, for specific groups of women—such as women of color or disabled workers—the gap with respect to the wages of white men is larger than for white women. And undocumented immigrant workers often fail to receive even minimum wage, as employment practices for these populations go under the radar.
Much of the gap is attributable to the fact that men and women work in different jobs, but a significant chunk (41.1 percent!) cannot be explained by characteristics of women or their jobs. Over time, the gender gap has narrowed—it was 59 cents on the dollar in the early 1970s—but the pace of convergence has slowed to a crawl in recent years.44 The most significant compression in the gender pay gap occurred during the 1980s, but this was because men’s wages fell, rather than because women’s wages rose.
Jesse's Girl
October 21st, 2009
9:46 am
Man..I have absolutely no complaints. I have a husband who works full time AND is getting a PhD. And he still finds time to get the “daddy” stuff done. I find myself making him sit and do nothing….he needs to do more of that frankly. I recently lost my final vocal student due to the economy….and I am fine with that. My job…while it helped pay some of the bills….wasn’t one that we depended on. Thats not to say that I enjoy staying home….I really don’t. I like using my gifts and talents to earn an income. And I very much hope to find something else…I have no issue with either working or SAHM’s….I think we all need to lift eachother up more often. I give thanks everyday for my amazing husband….he may not do things the way I would. But he does them…and he does them with a glad heart. So yeah…we’re good…report or no report:)
Stan
October 21st, 2009
9:48 am
In the case of my wife and I, I’ve found that each of our perception of the amount of work that the other one does tends to be a bit off. I find that I think she does way less house work than I do, and she thinks I do way less than she does. These polls do not take that in account. They don’t measure what each person does and weigh it against what the other person does. BTW, I do WAY more house work than my wife ;)
Lori,
You’re looking at the economy as stagnant, it is not. True there are more workers, that also means there are more consumers. More workers has casued the economy to grow, as more women work, more women need work style clothes, eat lunch out more often, need cars etc. Something that HAS gone up in cost over the years are taxes. We have to work more hours total to pay for the cost of government.
Stan
October 21st, 2009
9:51 am
Another point about both parents HAVING to work to make ends meet, Their are lots of single parents that work one job and pay the bills. They do without a lot of luxuries but they only have to work one job. Lots of married couples have a SAH parent (mom or dad) and make the same kinds of choices. Drive a $2000 car that is paid for, do not use credit cards, shop at thrift stores, don’t see the inside of a resturant etc so that they CAN have 1 parent stay home with the kids.
Priorities folks.
YUKI
October 21st, 2009
10:09 am
My husband and I both work full time. My son goes to a wonderful daycare every day where they teach sign language, do art projects every day, etc…I do not feel like he will grow up “dissaffected and emotionally screwed up” because of it. I had beenworking for 10+ years when I had him, and was used to being with people every day and facing work challenges. I did stay home for the first five months with him and was climbing the walls by the time I went back to work. As much as I love my son, I feel this is the best situation for all of us and I spend plenty of time with him in the evenings and all weekend long. Financially, it is necessary and although we are not big spenders, we don’t drive fancy cars and have no credit card debt, we are trying to save for the future/retirement/college and feel this is the best way to do this.
That being said, I do feel that in my own personal situation I do the brunt of the household duties as well. I finally got a housecleaner to come in once a month so that has helped a lot. When my husband gets home frome work, he feels he deserves to sit in the recliner and watch the news and “unwind”. Yeah, I’d like to “unwind” as well but most of the time I am making dinner, feeding my son, trying to clean up the kitchen as well as playing with and give a bath to my son and eventually putting him to bed. I have been VERY vocal about this and things are getting better but I feel that it’s still falls a lot on the woman to do the household duties even if she is working full time, which I think is BS. Not in all families, but in many.
LeeH1
October 21st, 2009
10:19 am
Women want to control the home, and so it is not a problem of the men doing the housework, it is a problem of men not doing it the same way the woman wants it, on the same schedule. She wants to control how it is done, just like she was taught by her Mom when she was six.
Men will do the work, but they won’t do it the same way and the same standard and on the same schedule as the woman wants. Most often, the woman won’t let go, and let the husband take responsibility, because he won’t do the work the same way she will.
The end result is a lot of arguments, nagging, and women not letting control go along with the responsibility. If they would just let the men do the work and be responsible for doing it, everything would be fine. However, men know they will be nagged to death, and the women will end up either doing it herself, and earning “burning martyr” points, or will re-do it herself, thus diminshing the man, or stand back and criticise and point out deficinecies.
Give the man the responsiblilty, then shut up. This is something most women seem to be totally unable to do, and is the major cause of the war between the sexes.
Jesse's Girl
October 21st, 2009
10:21 am
It USED to be that way with us…a long time ago. I stopped doing the things that I felt he should help with. It took about a week for him to snap out of it. Now….I seriously have to make my husband take it easy. Our roles are very defined and we still have very traditional takes on things in general…but he has learned that I can’t do it all and I learned that the way he does what he does is peffectly fine.
HB
October 21st, 2009
10:21 am
“To stay at home in the 21st century is akin to declaring that you are unmotivated, unambitious and perhaps a little lazy.”
I think to some degree you’re right on this, DB, but then again, I think working women are often judged for supposedly choosing their careers over their children. I often hear SAHMs say, “Why bother to have kids if I’m just going to give them to someone else to raise?” Sadly, we have a very judgemental society that often leaves women darned if we do, darned if we don’t.
I still love Gloria Steinam’s remarks from a 1999 interview where when asked about how many women have found themselves overwhelmed with full-time careers while remaining the primary homemakers (the 80s supermoms), she basically said that women’s liberation will truly be realized when we realize that men can do anything women can do. They can be just as great at caregiving, homemaking, etc as we are (or aren’t ;p). Men can be stay-at-home dads if they choose. They cook half the meals, take the kids out by themselves, help with homework, attend school meetings. As someone said above, some women don’t give men enough credit and don’t allow them to equal partners at home, claiming they have to do everything themselves or it won’t be done right.
And of course, as several have said here, many families (but certainly not all) choose two salaries to maintain a more frivolous lifestyle. It’s been interesting to me living outside the South to see how much less stuff many people choose to have. I know many well-educated, well-salaried people who choose to live closer to work in smaller homes. No one I know here buys a new car every 4 years. Most families I know have one television and one car. It’s really jarring to me to go back home and hear people complain about how stressed they’ve become trying to make ends meet as they drive their 3-year-old Suburbans with leather seats (that they say they truly NEED because they have 3 kids) to have lunch at the Club. Even more shocking is how many of those families’ homes are in foreclosure now.
madmommy
October 21st, 2009
10:25 am
First off, just because you rely on two incomes doesn’t mean that you are living the high life. Just because we enjoy doing a few things for ourselves, doesn’t mean that we are bad people. Just because you have kids doesn’t mean you have to stop treating yourself to things you enjoy. You still have a life once you have kids and doing things for yourself and taking time out for yourself I think is a very postive thing, esp. a young daughter to see. Life can’t be all work without play.
I still think there is a bit of a pay gap that is going on, but that it is getting better over time. One thing you will notice at least in my office, it is filled mostly with women, almost all are mothers. What does that say? I know of a few who stayed home with their children while they were young, but came back into the office once a certain age was reached. Some women are more adapt to staying home and I love my friends who do and always offer to take the kids so they can run to the store alone, or grab a cup of coffee. We need to lean on each other since none of us can do this alone, nor should we.
Men, I think would help more and he will if I ask him, but just wonder if I didn’t ask would he just jump up and help? As for doing non “women’s work” it all falls on me since he doesn’t know a philips head from a flat head screwdriver which is fine with me since my dad thought everyone needed to know how to do everything regardless of sex. Thanks Dad. Plus, how much fun is it to build or fix things? Much more fun than scrubbing soap scum.
Becky
October 21st, 2009
10:30 am
I do 95% of the housework, he does inside and outside maintaince..We have a service that cuts the grass..I do all of the grocery shopping, he does all of the major buying..I do all of the cooking (inside and outside), I do all of the dishwashing (by hand)..We each wash our own clothes..
Like Stan said, he thinks that because he sweeps the floor once a week, that he does more housework than I do..Does it bother me? Sometimes, but I get over it..
As for SAHM vs. “working” Moms. I think it just depends on the person and what they are willing to do without..My oldest sister only worked weekends,so that she could be at home during the week while her husband worked, then he was home with the kids all weekend..They did without a lot of stuff, so that they could do for the kids..I, like someone else said, could not see myself as a SAHM..I do not blame women of the past for how “rough” women of today have it..
joe
October 21st, 2009
10:38 am
A family consists of two parents (one male and one female) in order to raise children properly. It takes two, not a “village”. There are many wonderful characteristics about the man however, these include: Your last name stays put, car mechanics tell you the truth, you can be president, same work, more pay, you can be butt ugly and still be a rock star and the world is your urinal!
FCM
October 21st, 2009
11:05 am
Maria Shriver Schwartnagger has not got a clue of the average American woman. She born as part of the social elite (Kennedy) family, raised to have a liberally concious mindset, without having to suffer any material discomfort. PLEASE let her go back to being the first lady of CA, or even the woman talking on a cell phone.
As to the findings of the polls. That is nothing new, I worked up those same kind of figures in Women’s History, Sociology, and a Political Science class in 1990 – 1996. Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinheim both liberated the female and enslaved them to new issues. If you want to know why I feel this way I suppose I can go find those papers I wrote for the classes or you could trust this is just my opinion based on my own research.
Did anyone else catch that a blogger on USA Today is getting heat for taking his 11yo son and his friend to Hooters?
FCM
October 21st, 2009
11:07 am
LORI
“I wonder, though, if anyone has done a study to compare the relationship between the rising number of women in the workplace and the rising divorce rate. I’d bet my lunch that there is a direct correlation.”
My papers in the 1990s did just that. Durn it I should have gone on for a Phd so I could publish.
Ironically I ended up a single mom anyway.
Becky
October 21st, 2009
11:11 am
@FCM, what’s worong with taking your son to Hooters? Were they there just to “oogle” the waitress or to eat?
Another SAHM
October 21st, 2009
11:12 am
I used to deal with the corporate grind until my hubby landed a dream job that allowed me to stay home and raise my son. How ANY career can fulfill a woman as much as raising a child is beyond me. My son tells me EVERY day how much happier he is now that I have more time for him. I’m not rushed in the morning getting him ready for school…I actually have time to listen! I’m there when he gets home in the afternoon. I don’t need a degree, title, paycheck or high-end material things around me to validate who I am as a person. I am a mother first. Things have changed for the worse for families because there is no one raising the kids. And you women can scream and justify that yes you can have it all and that the duties are split. That’s b.s. Kids DO NOT have the direction and groundedness of the generation of kids who were lucky enough to have SAHMS. I’ve been on both sides raising my son and know that my availability to him with my heart, mind and soul brings way more benefits than hitting the grind and stress everday of an 8 to whatever on the time clock!
Vork
October 21st, 2009
11:14 am
@FCM
You are awesome….I’ve been trying to come up with something constructive to say on this topic and keep it short and to the point to not go all MJG on you and could not come up with anything….you have basically said what I was thinking…..keep up the good work.
Vork
October 21st, 2009
11:16 am
Also I see absolutely nothing wrong with taking the kids to Hooters….the wings are pretty good….;)
Vork
October 21st, 2009
11:21 am
Gang,
Amber Alert: She is 7 and has been missing 2 days. ~ That seals it. Never letting my kids walk home alone.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/special/somer/news-article.aspx?storyid=146938&catid=338
FCM
October 21st, 2009
11:22 am
Becky I never said I did or didn’t have an issue with it. I just thought it was interesting the guy is taking a wrap of being a bad dad because he took his son to the place.
My dad took my brother (probably around that age) to go see the Falcon’s spring training. My brother took a camera. When the film was developed it was a bunch of pictures of Cheerleaders with some football going on in the backgound.
Whether the 11yo was oogling and eating or just eating (he did get his pic taking with the waitress as that was part of the blog) I am not sure it matters. I think the 11yo was being an 11yo at least if the boys in our neighborhood are any indication.
My 4th grade daughter, who discovered boys her age were interesting to look at while at the pool this summer, is a bit frustrated to find those boys aren’t interested in 4th grade girls. They are however very interested in the girl from the HS who comes to help in their class. I just reminded her that until recently she wanted nothing to do with those boys (and honestly Mom could do with her still being that way right now) and had her sights set on Zac Efron.
DB
October 21st, 2009
11:28 am
LeeH1, I think that in many families, the men still consider it “helping”, instead of taking responsibility for a portion of the household administration. As long as it is considered “helping”, that means the responsibility is still assumed by the woman. Many men (don’t take it personally, I’m saying that many men, not you, exclusively!) will do whatever they are told – but that means that the woman still has responsiblity for a) identifying what needs to be done and b) negotiating the assignment to have it done.
It seems like many men don’t WANT the responsibility — they want to “help” when it’s convenient (i.e., in between football games, poker games, golf games, etc.) I don’t mean to paint all men with the same broad brush, but most men, growing up, didn’t have a strong male example of what it’s like to participate 50/50 the running of a household. Neither did their wives — they saw their moms doing it all (or at least, they THOUGHT she was doing it all), and somehow feel inadequate if THEY aren’t doing it all, too.
I think you’re right about the nagging, though. It took me a while to learn how to let go of things. I’m anal enough that my fingers still itch to refold a towel so that it’s folded neatly into thirds, then fourths, seams in, and placed just so on the shelf. But I’ve learned to just leave ‘em be — what difference does it make how the d*mn towels are folded, after all? :-D
FCM
October 21st, 2009
11:32 am
DB
While I wrote the papers in college…I TOTALLY agree with your assessment. That was actually why I wrote the papers to figure out what impact was had due to women controlling their reproductive systems and ascerting their desire to be outside the house working. In the process we also devalued Men and their roles both in the workforce and more importantly at home
Men, generally speaking, tend to associate their worth with their work. The ability to provide for their families has historically been a motivator and a sense of pride. With more and more women showing they can run a home, raise children, and bring in a reasonable income…the devaluing of men was increased.
I am reminded of both the Charlie (perfume) commercials and Erma Bombeck’s The Daddy Doll.
While I am a single mother I was a SAHM at one time. My own husband said that I should not be allowed to make financial decisons since I did not contribute to the family income.
I am deeply in favor of SAHM. I am deeply in favor of Moms who can work PT or flex.
However, for moms like me who find that the family supporter is spending money on other wine, women, and song– I am deeply grateful to have a job that provides for my children.
FCM
October 21st, 2009
11:32 am
sorry about the multiposts. Guess this topic struck a cord.
Hunter of MILF
October 21st, 2009
11:40 am
FCM are you a hottie?
DB
October 21st, 2009
11:40 am
Re: Hooters. Oh, good grief, who cares? The 11 year olds see the same kind of clothes on women every time they go to the mall. I go with my husband every once in a while — he likes the wings and, I’m sure, the scenery — and we laugh at how different the waitresses are when a woman is with a guy vs. an all-guy table. My son and my husband commented that the waitresses were very attentive taking orders when it was just the guys — kneeling by the table, making eye contact, etc. But when I’m there, they are pleasant, but unobtrusive. I’d say the waitresses were pretty savvy!
DB
October 21st, 2009
11:43 am
FCM: Or that stupid Enjoli commercial: “I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never ever let you forget that you’re the man.”
GAGGGGGG!
Hunter of MILF
October 21st, 2009
11:54 am
@FCM
What does the “F” stand for?
@DB
What does the “D” stand for?
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
11:56 am
I totally agree with SAHM. Families are suffering because women are working outside the home. I understand some have to but those who CHOSE to? There is something terribly selfish about that. How can a working mother be effective when she has to split her thoughts between her kids and work projects/deadlines. Especially if there’s an 8:00 meeting the mother will be giving latest sales figures/projections, etc. She can’t possibly give her undivided attention to the family when she is going over the meeting in her head. The way I see it is a woman is not fulfilled by being a mother, don’t have kids if you can’t give ALL of yourself. I stay home as well, by choice, and my husband LOVES coming home to a home-cooked meal every night. None of that drive-through garbage, frozen dinners or late dinners because I work. Plus my kids get their homework done early when they get home from school because I’m THERE to help! Bet you CAREER women can’t say that. Definitely, women’s lives have been set back by this new generation. I think my mother had it better when VERY few women worked. I know I had it better because my mother WAS there just as I am for my children. Shame on you ladies for choosing career over family!
Becky
October 21st, 2009
12:02 pm
FCM, I didn’t say that you were having an issue with it..I was just wondering if there was more to the story..Like DB said, the way some young girls and grown woment dress, they see this all the time..
b
October 21st, 2009
12:06 pm
After 28 years of marriage and two kids, I can say that my husband has gotten better at taking some responsibility for chores around the house. I have always worked, sometimes at two jobs, because my husband’s career is in a field where layoffs are commonplace. Many times I have been the one with the income, health insurance, etc. I cannot imagine not working as the fear factor of being dependent only on his job is too overwhelming.
We have gone full-cycle, from no kids, two good jobs, to two kids, only me working, no home ownership, one old car, back to two good jobs. If I quit working everytime he got a new job, I would have lost so much careerwise, and many times we would have been without income, health insurance, etc for months at a time. We don’t have a lot of extras, although we consider ourselves fortunate to have a home we own (actually still have a small mortgage), two cars that are paid for, and no other debt including no credit card debt.
Today (and I mean today not a generalized time frame) we both are working, able to pay our bills, help the oldest with college expenses, send our learning disabled child to a school with the resources to help him achieve, and finally we are able to save some for retirement.
If I had not worked, none of this would have been possible. I think that this is the situation in a lot of families and I for one, cannot see myself relying solely on his “possible” income. My job is demanding, I travel, but his is also demanding and requires even more travel. We tend to share carpool responsibilities, although I am the “scheduler”. He is responsible for outside work, gardening is his hobby; I am responsible for laundry, housework between cleanings by an agency, and the day-to-day financies (he does the long-term stuff). Cooking and shopping are shared depending on who is available. I deal with almost all school-related items although he will go to conferences if available. Until we got cleaning help, I did it and really resented not getting any help. That expense has been the best thing we could have done and I will not be happy to give it up should the need arise! No arguments about cleaning! All in all, I would say that we have found a equitable solution.
FCM
October 21st, 2009
12:20 pm
FCM = Fulton County Mom. The regulars shortened it to FCM years ago. Hunter you made my day, I have seen you ask that question of just about every ‘lifer’ on the board but me, I was starting to get a complex ;)
Hate Working
October 21st, 2009
12:25 pm
The two previous posters about SAHMS make a good point. I hate working but I don’t have a choice. I do not have a degree so my paychecks don’t go far but are necessary to pay the bills. I hate getting home late at night. Dinner at my house is not very creative or very good…it’s boxed mac-n-cheese, spaghetti with RAGU sauce, baked meat, hotdogs, hamburgers, etc. I don’t have time to make a variety of tasty meals because I don’t have the luxury of two hours in the kitchen. My weekends are spent cleaning and doing laundry so I’m always stressed and tired. My kids are old enough to get themselves ready now but it was only a few years ago I was choosing their clothes, preparing their breakfast, making sure they had what they needed for school that morning…a never-ending rat race. I would give ANYTHING to be a full-time mother. Women’s lib as added to the problems us mothers and wives have to deal with. Because not only are we expected to take care of the home but bring home a check as well!
Hate Working
October 21st, 2009
12:29 pm
One more comment…Maria Shriver is a silver-spoon baby and never had or does adjust to the problems most working women face. She has enough money to hire cleaning help, nannies, chauffers, cooks, personal shoppers, personal assistants, etc. It always kills me when someone of financial wealth is given the chance to speak on a subject like this.
Vork
October 21st, 2009
12:33 pm
Oh look this has de-evolved into mommy wars between the stay at home moms and the working career moms. STOP IT, you are irritating and neither one of you is better than the other.
To each their own…..we are all human and as such we learn to adapt to situations that we are forced to deal with. For some, two incomes is an absolute neccessity, to others being able to have one parent stay home is fine and dandy but consider yourself fortunate…..because you are now the exception, rather than the rule.
But neither way of raising children is superior to the other as everyone is different and everyone will do what is best for themselves and their families.
I do find it interesting though that it is the stay at home moms that rush to defend their position long before any of the career moms even say a word.
Hate Working
October 21st, 2009
12:38 pm
Vork…that’s because working moms are defenseless. What CAN they say? “I would rather have a job than be there for my kids?”
Hate Working
October 21st, 2009
12:39 pm
That should read Career women…some like me work for necessity..not by choice.
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
12:43 pm
Excuse me Vork…the article is how women’s lives have changed. Working outside the home falls under that category as we didn’t used to have to. The movement of women towards “working and finding themselves” has attributed to the decay of families and marriage!
Vork
October 21st, 2009
12:53 pm
@Kendall
That doesn’t mean that this has to turn into childish mommy bickering over who is better than who in terms of how you raise your children. I’m just saying.
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
12:57 pm
@ Vork…who is bickering? I’M just saying.
Vork
October 21st, 2009
12:59 pm
@Hate Working
How about, hey my husband’s paycheck just is not enough to support us financially so I have to take on a job to make sure we can pay bills and put food on the table…..
Please tell me that you are intelligent enough to realize that not all working moms do so out of choice.
Vork
October 21st, 2009
1:05 pm
@Hate Working..
My bad I was responding to your 12:38 pm comment and did not see your 12:39 comment….
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
1:06 pm
Vork, if you’ll re-read her post, that’s what she said. She works because she has to and that her paycheck doesn’t go far enough to pay the bills. She wishes she could stay home but can’t out of necessity. How is that any different from what you just said but in different words?
FCM
October 21st, 2009
1:10 pm
Hate Working don’t stress yourself out. Add some broccoli to that Ragu or change it up with some aspargus and garlic/olive oil and your treating your family just fine. Personally I would hope if I stayed at home I would have more to show for it than a clean house and a dinner that took 2 hours to cook — at that point I would have to agree with Steinheim’s assesment that there is more to my life than a clean toliet.
Kendall – stop the judging. The lanuage and puncuation comes across as superior and judgemental. What will you do if hubby is downsized? What if he gets in a horrible crash like those folks on Hwy 78 last week. You so don’t want to go there with this crowd. I’m just saying.
YUKI
October 21st, 2009
1:10 pm
Kendall, please get a life. I’m not going to go into detail defending my choice, I’m just going to say I’m happy in my NECESSARY decision to be a working mother. I don’t get home late and I don’t take work (physically or mentally) home with me. My child is not suffering because of it. Sounds like you need to loosen up and go have a margarita with the other snooty SAHM’s in their tennis skirts and visors…..
Sorry to make this about SAHM vs. WORKING Vork, but these people trying to say working mothers are choosing career over family need to mind their own business and do what is right for thier families…
Vork
October 21st, 2009
1:12 pm
@Kendall
Thanks….I think I went a bit crosseyed for a moment, but I think the problem has been solved.
Vork
October 21st, 2009
1:16 pm
Ideally, what difference does it make if you “choose” to work versus being forced to work? I don’t understand the difference…..as long as family comes first no matter what in both cases WHO CARES?
Hate Working
October 21st, 2009
1:28 pm
FCM..spending two hours in the kitchen is a luxury for those of us who like to cook. It’s a hobby. I watch Food Network Channel and Hell’s Kitchen and would love nothing more than be able to create masterpieces. Pardon me for disagreeing, but simply adding a few different ingredients to a can of RAGU at different times does not change the same-ole, same-ole. As for cleaning house? The toilet has to be cleaned at some time, doesn’t it? As it is, it’s only once a week my floors get vaccuumed, mopped, bathrooms cleaned and laundry caught up. I’m forced to deal with all this on the weekends since I work during the week..leaving no time to me. If I didn’t have to work I would have the chance of being a better mother, wife and pick up some much needed ME time for my own hobbies and interests…including having the luxury to experiment in the kitchen.
Jo Yo Yo
October 21st, 2009
1:30 pm
Maria Shriver? Is this the same woman that breaks the law by talking on a cell phone while driving? Is this the same woman that has very little in common with the average woman? Oh yes, yes it is.
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
1:32 pm
Yuki, yuki, yuki. Well you certainly aren’t home at 3:00 when your children arrive home from school nor is dinner on the table at 5:00 when the husband arrives. So in essence…yes you are late getting home. Who is there for the kids? Oh Grandma? Yep..parental substitution. They get to see mommy for a few hours at night before bedtime at 8:00. My family gets ALL of me…not just squeezing them in between my job.
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
1:36 pm
Enter your comments here
YUKI
October 21st, 2009
1:41 pm
Well good for you. You are much better off than the rest of us. I’m pretty sure the TWO hours between 3:00 and 5:00 aren’t going to make THAT much of a difference in the kid’s life. Sounds like you are up on your horse so high you can’t see that for the rest of us this is working just fine. I’m not a 50’s wife rubbing my husband’s feet and having dinner on the table when lovey walks through the door. Do you have a “manhattan” ready in the cocktail glass for him as well?
Hey, if that is what floats your boat.
Like somebody said before, hope you don’t end up on the other end, a single mom or husband loses job and you end up having to actually contribute to the family income. Heaven forbid you would do what you have to do…
judgemental much
October 21st, 2009
1:44 pm
Geez Kendall, God forbid someone doesn’t choose to live their life exactly the way you do, it doesnt make them a bad parent, BTW how are things back there in 1950.
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
1:48 pm
I think the 1950’s were great. Our parents loved attending those sock-hops. Our grandmother’s had all the time in the world to sew those cute little poodle skirts for their daughters (our mothers) because grandma didn’t work!
New Stepmom
October 21st, 2009
1:50 pm
WOW as a first time expectant mom, today’s topic is interesting. I am unsure what I want to do as far as work is concerned and hearing both sides feeds the confusion. Right now we do need my income but are hoping that will change before September of next year when I would return to my current job. I have had “my own money” since I was 12 years old and ending my career is scary to the extent of not wanting to completely rely on someone else financially. However, I love keeping a wonderful home and it is difficult right now with only a part time child, so the struggle in my brain continues.
My husband falls into the category of not helping much in the house, but wanting the house to be run smoothly and be kept clean. I am insistent on having a housekeeper twice a month while I am working and I will ask for help when I need it, but I do sometimes have to nag. He does work longer hours than I do at times, but most of the house “stuff” falls on me to manage. That is the key reason that staying at home following the birth of our child looks appealing. I do not want to be one of those moms that is doing nothing well because there is too much on my plate.
The bottom line for us is, everything has fallen into place perfectly and I know this piece will too…right now my brain does not shut this issue off very much though…
Victoria
October 21st, 2009
1:57 pm
Here is a voice you haven’t heard. Yes I work because I chose to. I did not have children so I could focus on my career and am very happy with that decision. I know I would have had to make sacrifices either in my career or at home and I wasn’t willing to do that. Some of my friends who choose to work do so because they love what they do but they are still stressed out. Sometimes they are forced to choose their job over their children if it involves a deadline. So I understand what some of these stay at home women are saying and that is exactly why I chose not to have a family. I never have to feel guilty.
Hey Hate Working...
October 21st, 2009
1:57 pm
…” If I didn’t have to work I would have the chance of being a better mother, wife and pick up some much needed ME time for my own hobbies and interests…including having the luxury to experiment in the kitchen.”
Geez, lady, want some cheese with that WHINE? I guess you haven’t seen too many fat, bon-bon eating, Jerry Springer watching SAHMs who have plenty of ME time yet still think life is all about THEM.
There are good and bad parts about being a SAHM or being a “working mom”. In either situation it is what each person makes it for their family – so don’t me started on the sanctimonious KENDALL who knows it all – I would love to have a 24 hour camera on her so that we could show just what a beotch she must really be!
Hey wait a minute...
October 21st, 2009
2:03 pm
…Kendall darlin’, is that you – my beer needs refilling – please hurry!!!!
Uconn
October 21st, 2009
2:03 pm
All I can say is WOW… Let me start by saying I do not have kids… Yet… BUT… I will NEVER let myself be defined by having dinner on the table by 5pm for my soon to be husband… Marriage is teamwork and let me say that I will be working after I (we) have kids… Partly by choice and partly by necessity. I am home today because I had a lot of dental work done and I am CLIMBING the walls.
I have heard that it does not matter how much time you spend with your kids, but rather the quality time you spend with them. What about the SAHM who watches TV all day and does nothing with her child ? And the working mom who comes home and talks with her child and spends time with them? It may only be an hour of QUALITY time but I bet that kid would value that over a mom being home and cleaning and cooking all day.
Kendall – The 50’s ended about 50 years ago… but if thats the way you feel and you enjoy doing that, then good for you, its just not for everyone. But for me? BLECH… I am no one’s slave… If my soon to be Husband expected dinner when he got home, he knows where the refrigerator is… I do it for him becuase he doesn’t expect it.
YUKI – I bet you are a GREAT mom … :) and I mean that with sincerity… From your posts you sound intelligent …
Have a great rest of the day…. If I could only get my tooth to stop hurting :(
Hate Working
October 21st, 2009
2:05 pm
What is your problem? You’re the one who sounds whacked out. There is nothing wrong with a working mother wanting more time to themselves. I would bet most of the posters who work feel that way.
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
2:10 pm
If you need a beer in the middle of the day, go for it. I’m sure as a working mother you’re stressed out and need that buzz.
FCM
October 21st, 2009
2:14 pm
hate working have you missed the 92 times I have said I am a Single Mom (and Vork you’ll have to forgive me for saying it a 93rd)…who the heck do you think does all those chores you list at my house?
New Stepmom
October 21st, 2009
2:15 pm
Kendall….I have to say that my dear friends who are SAHMs are just as stressed as the working moms (again leading to more confusion for me). I think your last comment was a little harsh and definitely does nothing to further the cause of women in all walks of life.
YUKI
October 21st, 2009
2:26 pm
well I made a comment earlier that did not post so whatever….but thanks UCONN for the kind words. I really don’t take what people that judge working mothers say to heart…to each his own.
Hate Working
October 21st, 2009
2:27 pm
FCM…and I know you’re stressed. That’s my point. Imagine if you had a spouse to take care of the bills and you stayed home to care for the home and family.
New Stepmom…it is way more stressful going to a full-time job. SAHMS get to cook, clean, grocery shop, garden, attend children’s school events all during the 8-hour day that I am slaving away at a job. Those things SAHMS do still have to be done at my house but I have to squeeze them in AFTER my job and on weekends. Trust me…try working for a while and only then will you understand what I’m saying about staying home.
Hey wait a minute...
October 21st, 2009
2:27 pm
…Kendall darlin’ – it’s me, your husband who allows you to stay at home and shelter the girds of my loins that is requesting, and now DEMANDING that you bring that d@mn beer to me, woman!
HB
October 21st, 2009
2:30 pm
“I think the 1950’s were great. Our parents loved attending those sock-hops. Our grandmother’s had all the time in the world to sew those cute little poodle skirts for their daughters (our mothers) because grandma didn’t work!”
Hahahahahaha! In the 50s, my grandmother was working in a shirt factory and my grandfather in a textile factory. My mom came home after school and took care of her youngest brother, bringing him along as she and her other brother did their farm chores. Then she helped make dinner for the family. She says her aunts who didn’t work outside the home didn’t spend much more time with the kids and certainly didn’t spend much time on homework (back then, that was seen as primarily the kids’ responsibility) because housework took a larger chunk of time back when there were clothes to hang out to dry, vegetables to can, dishes to wash by hand, dresses to sew to save money, etc. Such a lifestyle was probably more common throughout Georgia than the Donna Reed, middle-class lifestyle you describe.
OK, all you stay at home moms...
October 21st, 2009
2:31 pm
…don’t you just love how “Hate Working” thinks you have it so easy? She is one self-centered beotch who thinks the world owes her something. She is really having a bad life, and wants to blame it on everyone but herself – and deep down she is blaming her husband – but who made her marry him?
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
2:36 pm
Toodles…off to pick up my child from school. No school buses or daycare for him. And why are you picking on Hates To Work? Must be the same poster again. You really have it in for her. I don’t see where she said any of those things. Are you just trying to stir trouble? Again…you may need to double on those beers. Sounds like you could use a chill period.
Hates Working
October 21st, 2009
2:41 pm
Since you don’t want to post with a name but hail insults, I suppose you must be a SAHM yourself and married a man for his money so you could do just that. I don’t blame my husband and I don’t have a bad life. Is it stressed? You betcha. Would I chose to stay home. Certainly. So does why does that paint me to be a pity party? That’s not what I’ve been saying at all. I just don’t know why anyone would chose to work if they don’t have to. That is all I’m saying. I don’t EVEN know what YOU are talking about.
judgemental much
October 21st, 2009
2:42 pm
Let me guess Kendall, you are an ITP mom driving your giant SUV with the “W” sticker still in the back window, probably yapping on your cell phone with your kids in the back glued to the head rest DVD player. I may be wrong but you just scream stereotypical ITP SAHM snob.
Hates Working
October 21st, 2009
3:05 pm
And by the way, I have a wonderful husband. Definition of Wonderful – loving and caring. Wonderful does not equal MONEY if that’s what you were implying. I didn’t marry for money. Why would I? Did you?
What's wrong with a W Sticker?...
October 21st, 2009
3:12 pm
I would venture to guess that “Hates Working” is an ITP working mom who lives in Grant Park or Inman Park and just loves Obama and all his give-away programs!
motherjanegoose
October 21st, 2009
3:15 pm
Wow Vork….I was not here all day and the kids are still fighting, Since I have not received notification from Theresa that you are making good on your comment to pay me to shut up ( that was all hype) I guess I will chime in.
I LOVE MY WORK.
Yes, it is stressful and yes I feel overwhelmed sometimes but at the end of the day, I am more proud of the ideas I shared with educators and students than any toilet I ever cleaned or dinner I cooked. The cleaning and cooking may last 24 hours but my work lasts a lifetime.
There was a time when I was content with being able to focus on my house and family ( luckily I worked part time) but now that I am 50, I AM OVER IT. The same routine gets old after a while…some SAHM folks have not hit*** a while*** yet and some have worked so long that they DO need a break and would cherish being a SAHM.
When folks share thoughts about me at my funeral, it will not be:
HER HOUSE WAS SPOTLESS, SHE PICKED UP HER CHILDREN AT SCHOOL EVERY DAY, SHE COOKED DELICIOUS MEALS AND SEWED THE CUTEST CLOTHES
I think it will be:
SHE LOVED WORKING WITH CHILDREN AND EDUCATORS AND HAD A PASSION FOR SHARING IDEAS THAT ENHANCED LITERACY. SHE CONNECTED WITH HER NEIGHBORS AND ENJOYED TRAVELING, MEETING NEW PEOPLE AND LEARNING NEW THINGS.
I have stepped out ( of my house) and worked with almost 100,000 educators who are using the things I created and embracing the ideas I share.
My children are not fully grown yet but they are ( generally) great kids and I get compliments from folks about them all the time, in spite of the fact that I was never a SAHM. It can happen. They are independent and mature too because I have not been there to handle everything for them. They rode the bus home all by themselves and even made their own snack too.
To each his own. Some women prefer to stay home and some prefer to work. I was home a lot this summer and thought I was going to lose my mind. I need more stimulation than cleaning and cooking. Just being in Alaska, this weekend, was amazing and talking to the teachers there was wonderful too.
madmommy
October 21st, 2009
3:27 pm
Kendall,
I’m sorry if you feel as if you are master of the universe because you stay at home. Honestly, I feel that I give my child all the love and attention that a small child could ever want. Granted, I’m sure she would love to stay home with her mommy, but why not allow her to be around other kids her age and other adults? It’s good for the both of us and I feel that I am a better mom because of it. You have to take care of yourself first before you can take care of anyone else.
FYI, I make home cooked meals just about every night (that we aren’t having leftovers) and I work full time. Ever heard of a crock pot or being able to make things ahead of time? Duh!!
Hates working, I think you need to carve out at least 30 minutes a day for yourself regardless of how you have to do it. I workout everyday and it’s my own time. Sometimes I do have to be home in order to get that workout in, but at least it’s my own time to turn my brain off and switch gears. You don’t have to defend your choice on a husband since I know plenty of men who would love for their wives to be able to stay home, but it can’t happen.
Most women I know don’t want to lose their own sense of identity just because they had a child. Yes, it is life changing, but I’ve had one name up until I started hearing mommy and I will be with that person for the rest of my life. Can’t just turn her off because I’ve had a child. How do you want your kids to live life? Teach your daughters that they are nothing if not mothers taking care of someone else without regard for their own personal happiness? Geez, get over it. When your kids move out and don’t live up to your expectations, your going to just lose it. Relax as Frakie says.
This has nothing to do with men helping with housework or the kids by the way. Just another way women get katty with each other.
FCM
October 21st, 2009
3:28 pm
MJG — at your funeral I think what I may say is “that is the briefest thing I have known her for.” of course at mine they will say “she finally stopped talking!” many hugs! ;)
New Stepmom
October 21st, 2009
3:39 pm
Hates working….I do work full time and have a step child at the house only part time, so It does give me some idea of the struggles. Again, I have no idea what I will do when our child comes, but i do see stress on both sides on the SAHM or working mom debate.
motherjanegoose
October 21st, 2009
3:50 pm
@ FCM…thanks for the laugh. When I was in 1st grade, the teacher sent a note home, to my mother, that she had to put tape over my mouth to keep me quiet…( imagine doing that now). When I was in 9th grade I was sent out of the Home Ec class because I was the only one who was sewing and talking at the same time…everyone else was listening and talking to me. When I was in HS and college, I was the one who made the announcements on the PA at Wal Mart.
Now, I get to talk for a living and get paid nicely too…wish my first grade teacher could see me!!!
It is amazing but I do have teachers who e-mail me and say,
” I wish you could come and share your new ideas at our school every week….”
I do have lots of ideas but I AM NOT THAT CLEVER.
LOL
October 21st, 2009
4:43 pm
I knew she couldn’t make through a day without telling us she gets paid to talk….too funny!!
Christina
October 21st, 2009
4:54 pm
I think some of our “need” to work is self-inflicted. Yes, I currently am a mom who also works full-time outside the home. Yes, I want to give up my career and stay home. Yes, my husband and I are taking strides toward achieving that goal.
How many of us who “need” to work live in a three-bedroom, one-bath house and share only one car for the household? How many of us have no cable bill, no cell phone bill, no internet bill, no housecleaner bill, no car payment? Most of us probably have some of those things and more. How many of us buy new clothes, toys, appliances instead of fixing the old/broken ones we’ve got? If we’re comparing to an era when women stayed home, let’s consider the standard of living. Today’s typical home is much larger than it was 20-30-40-50 years ago. Today almost all of us have one vehicle (or more) per parent. If we were to cut out all the expenses that previous generations didn’t have, how many more parents could stay home (or at least cut back their hours–or cut back to only one job)? We’ve been evaluating all these “needs” since my husband’s salary cut last spring and have managed to cut more from our budget than we thought possible.
The final hurdle will be selling our house . . . we made an investment by building our own house (he was a residential builder before the industry collapsed), and we thought we could carry it a couple years, sell it and it would turn a profit. A couple years came and went, and now we can’t even break even on it, so we continue to carry the mortgage until things improve . . . even with the morgage, we probably can swing me working from home and taking a small pay cut, but we could easily halve our mortgage and allow my income to become supplementary, if only we could sell the house we’re in! “Need” to work? Yes. For now. Completely self-inflicted? Yes.
Christina
October 21st, 2009
4:55 pm
Article about how the housing standard has changed since 1950: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5525283
motherjanegoose
October 21st, 2009
5:10 pm
@LOL….this JUST came in today from Alaska…an actual teacher sent it….enjoy:
It was so fun having you up here at the Alaska _________
Thanks so much for coming. You inspired me and I’ve been having a
blast with my kindergartners. It’s always good to be reminded to smile,
move and wiggle. It’s what kids do best!
Fondly, __________
@ Christina…I hear you! No car payments here and no flat screen or Wi ( sp?) or Ti Vo ( sp?)!
No housecleaner either. We also have no retirement package as that was eliminated a few years back and we are socking away everything we can. Eight years left on our mortgage, so we are not going anywhere. Like they used to say, “this is not your father’s Oldsmobile….”
This is not the way things used to be either!
Off to make a real dinner for my family and then pack for St. Louis…have fun!
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
5:46 pm
Christina…my friend you so understand and I applaud you. These nitwits judged me without knowing me. Guess what people. I am an OTP. I have no college degree. I rent. My husband and I both drive cars that are 7 years old with over 100K miles on BOTH of them…a stripped down Ford Explorer and a stripped down Toyota with a crack in the windshield. I have no cell phone…why would I need one if I don’t work? My TV is 36 inches. We never eat out because I can cook delicious gourmet meals at home for half the price because I do not work. As for “W” on my rear window…I am democrat, voted Obama and support PUBLIC HEALTH CARE!!! Talk about looking like an idiot for those of you who THINK you know what SAHMS are!! We are not all married to a Bernie Madoff ripping off those who are in the dark.
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
5:53 pm
Madmommy…I did work the first years of my child being in school. Pre-K all the way through 4th grade. Every day was the same. My child asking why I had to work…why couldn’t I be there like the other mothers. We lived in a WEALTHY neighborhood of SAHMS and my son was the ONLY kid who had to go to daycare. And he cried about it. We sold the $300K house with the $1000K HOA dues, we got rid of the expensive cars, all so that I COULD BE THERE FOR MY SON WHEN HE ASKED! Now…if you think YOUR children don’t feel the same? You women are dilusional. There is not a child on this earth that would say “sure, mommy, I don’t want you home when I get home from school” Enjoy those paychecks ladies…just so you can drive the LEXUS SUV’s and shop at Nordstroms. And especially for your kids…it’s important that their shirts say “Abercrombie” on the front. $50.00 to $200.00 a pop….depending on what you buy…a t-shirt or a jacket!!
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
6:00 pm
But I am flattered that someone thought I was some rich Bernie Madoff bride without any regard for the working class.
Hates Working
October 21st, 2009
6:04 pm
I simply think you working women have lost your way. It’s all aobut your job. Your paycheck. Your self-ful-filled destiny in life. You don’t need to have children because YOU come first!
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
6:08 pm
Oh hi H-W…glad to see you back. I believe some of these phonies are trying sooo hard to justify their position to neglect their children. I recently got to attend an OVERNIGHT field trip and chaperone the entire 5th grade on a camping trip. Now you moms who chose to work? You are NOT able to participate in something like this unless you submit a vacation day and god bless…you better hope it doesn’t fall on a day where the business module is being shown in a quaterly meeting! You wouldn’t get to attend…would you! Have to choose ladies..Job or family! Know what I mean? Been there…done that!
Kendall
October 21st, 2009
6:21 pm
Well…I’m off to eat my delicious dinner….swedish meatballs with rosemary/thyme seasoning in a mushroom/alfredo sauce that has been simmering on the stove for a few hours. If I worked, I would be serving my family something frozen in a bag!!!! Not this gourmet dish of flavor!!! Eat your heart out ladies who chose to work….hope that Stouffers tastes great…or at least if you attempt to cook something homemade and delicious that your family doesn’t starve to death before 8:00 when if finally hits the table because your job is so important!
deidre_NC
October 21st, 2009
6:22 pm
kendall i honestly hope nothing bad ever happens to your husband but just in case i hope he has a fantastic insurance policy…some of us have to work…some of us are not married to a man who makes enough money to support a family and some of us dont have a husband..or an ex who pays child support…you really should be more careful in being so judgemental…sometimes judgements will come back and bite you on the butt….