Rear-facing car seats until 4? 5-pt.-harnesses up to 80 lbs.?
There seem to be two new movements in the world of car seats:
A. A new study suggests that your 2, 3, and 4-year-olds should actually be facing the rear for their safety.
B. Community activism that higher weight and older kids should stay in 5-point harnesses and not move to boosters for their safety.
A new study in The British Medical Journal has found that children under 4 fare much better in accidents when they are rear-facing rather than facing front. Children are generally turned around at 1 years old AND 20 pounds. (The AND is often read as OR and that is wrong. Drives me crazy!)
“For example, there are data that many fatalities in young forward-facing riders could have been averted with a rear-facing seat. An analysis of US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration data of 870 children involved in crashes from 1998 to 2003 found that through 23 months of age, better protection from all crash types was provided with rear-facing seats.”
“In terms of specific injuries, recent crash test results suggest that rear- rather than forward-facing seats provide better protection of the lower neck and chest, the authors note. In another crash simulation study, it was concluded that manufacturers should developed rear-facing seats for children up to 4 years old.”
“Watson and Monteiro note that in contrast to forward-facing seats, rear-facing seats provide full alignment of the head, neck, and spine, so that crash forces are dispersed over these areas rather than centered on one site.”
ABC News has a video on its site showing a crash test where you can see the difference in impact on a rear facing-seat and front-facing seat.
I totally understand the physics of how a child would be more protected facing the back, but what I can’t figure out is where in the world their legs are supposed to go? They tell you to switch them to the front because they say their necks are strong enough at 1, plus their legs are too long and could be hurt. So I don’t see in any of these news reports where a 2, 3 or 4, year-old legs are supposed to go.
Here’s a web site that sells these bigger seats and they say they can face backwards.
The other big issue I keep hearing and seeing about is if older kids should be in a 5-point harness and not a booster seat. I received a call from a friend recently who had heard that some group was recommending that children up to 80 pounds be in a 5-point harness.
Now 80-pounds seems a little bit extreme but on the other end you’ve got a lot of parents moving children who are 3 into boosters and there are all these videos on You Tube about those children being killed in car accidents.
Here is one of those videos, plus a news report from Good Morning American on the topic.
Here’s what Georgia law says about car and booster seats:
- ALL children under the age of six, regardless of how tall they are, must ride in the backseat of a car. A child is safer in the back and farthest away from the force of an airbag. Remember that airbags are designed to save adults, and since they deploy with great force they can be fatal to children.
- Children under the age of six are required to be in either a car seat or a booster seat suitable for their age and height.
- If there is not a back seat in the vehicle (e.g., a truck) or if other restrained children are in the back seat, Georgia law permits a child under the age of six to sit in front if restrained in the proper car seat or booster.
- Failure to obey Georgia law can result in a fine of up to $50 and one point against your license per improperly restrained child. The fine and points may be doubled if a second incident occurs.
Four Steps to Safety (as recommended by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration)
AGE LIMIT WEIGHT / HEIGHT LIMIT COMMENTS Infant Seat Newborn to 1 year Less than 1 year
Up to 20 lbs. 20-35 lbs.
These car seats should be rear-facing For 20 lb.+ babies, use a seat recommended for heavier infants
Toddler Seat 1-4 years 20-40 lbs Child needs to be BOTH 1 year old and 20 lbs. or more before placed in a forward-facing seat Booster Seat From 4 years to at least 8 years Between 40-80 lbs; Under 4′9″ tall Booster seat should be used with lap and shoulder belt; Lap belt should rest across the lap-never the stomach Safety Belt Between 8-12 years Over 80 lbs; Taller than 4′9″ What do you think? Are you willing to turn your 2,3, or 4-year-old’s car seat back around? Do you think they would be safer? Can you figure out how that configuration would work with a toddler car seat? Also where do their legs go? Is there space in between the seat and the car? Could their little legs get crushed if they are hanging down? (I’m not against it. I just don’t understand.)
How long should kids stay in their 5-point-harness seats in general? When did you switch your kids over to a booster? What about 80-pound kids in 5-point-harness seats? I’m sure they would be safer, but would they let you do it? Would they protest?
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Guides
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2009 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
58 comments Add your comment
MomOf2
June 15th, 2009
7:42 am
These guidelines don’t take into account those children who are very slender. My older daughter is 12 years old, 4′10″, and she weighs 70 pounds. I’m supposed to put her in a booster???? The kid babysits, for crying out loud!
Child #2 is 8 1/2, is 45″ and she weighs 37 pounds. She’s going to be coming out of her booster this summer. I can’t ask a third grader to sit in a booster seat. It’s already wreaking havoc on carpools and field trips.
Robin
June 15th, 2009
7:54 am
I am very interested in everyone’s comments on this topic. Our daughter is 4 and right at 40 lbs. She is still in the 5 pt harness car seat, and I think the carseat is good up to 80 lbs. I lost the manual some time ago, and have been wavering with getting a booster seat. After reading Theresea’s post, I am more inclined to just let her stay in the 5 pt harness seat until she reaches 80 lbs.
susan
June 15th, 2009
8:11 am
My seven year old is too tall for a booster in my husband’s sedan. With a booster, her head is over the top of the back seat. So then what? How is that safe? She does use a booster in our van. The seats are taller and the seat belt fits better with the booster. My 10 y/o is less than 80 lbs but 4′10″ or slightly taller. No way she will sit in a booster or consider any type of harness other than a standard seat belt. Her head would be over the top of the seat. I cannot fathom where legs would go on a toddler child if rear facing. That seems dangerous on a different level. Thankfully I am past the infant stage. whew!
Miracle
June 15th, 2009
8:42 am
Wow, I’m shocked and happy to see this article, I would much rather follow the rules and include the extra fact of safety first. My grand daughter is 1 and she is right at 20 lbs but she is a little on the tall side I will do the rear facing if in a mid-size or luxury car with the extra leg room after reading this. Thanks….
Myra
June 15th, 2009
8:46 am
In Sweden, I think it’s the law to keep kids under four rear facing. Their accident statistics show the success of this tactic. Google shows images of rear-facing kids just crossing their legs Indian style. This doesn’t seem a very big deal to me as kids are fairly flexible. My daughter is 14 months and 26 lbs. and is still rear facing. She doesn’t appear to mind it a bit. I plan on keeping her this way until we reach the upper limit of her carseat. And only then will I consider putting her forward facing. Or, I might just purchase another carseat that has a higher weight limit for rear facing.
As far as the booster seat, this slightly worries me. I didn’t even reach 5′1″ until I was a sophomore in high school. By these standards, I would have been in a booster/5-point harness into adolescence!!
catlady
June 15th, 2009
8:50 am
i think the 5 pt hitch is a good idea, but question the rear facing from another standpoint: carsickness. Anyone else have a problem with this?
Kathy
June 15th, 2009
8:56 am
I’m sorry but I don’t know any toddler that will sit with their legs tangled up Indian style for more than a minute. That doesn’t seem healthy for blood circulation! We put Little E in a booster in September (she had turned 3 the previous June) because she was getting too tall for her car seat. I was a little nervous about using just the seat belt (shoudler and lap belt) in the car. I would not object to using a 5 point harness until she was 5, if that was the law, but the rear-facing issue seems a little weird.
Kathy
June 15th, 2009
9:00 am
I have a question for y’all that I forgot in my previous post…….
If you have a toddler in a booster (or car seat), do you have them directly behind the driver or passenger’s seat or do you seat them in the middle of the back seat? I have been sitting Little E behind my seat, but my manual says the middle. I have always been afraid that if there was an accident, she would be launched right between the seats and out the windshield….that is if her seatbelt somehow malfunctioned. Just curious about what everyone else does.
Momoftwo
June 15th, 2009
9:01 am
I am a carseat FANatic! I have always followed the last to a “T”! After being involved in a roll over accicent with my then 1 year old and saw that he walked away without a scratch on his sweet little body…I dont take any chances. BUT rear facing? Their lives would be saved but their little legs would be broken. I think the bottom line is this. Install your car seats properly and if you dont know how take them to get done. Make sure you put your child in properly and tight and if you dont know how go to the seminars at your local county, fire dept or Babies r us. And under no circumstances let your child or their possible embarrassment compromise your decision to keep them safe. My son is 6 1/2 and still sits in his booster. The car seat specialist told me that until he can plant his feet flat on the ground in the car he should remain in a booster. Since I drive a large SUV he is not quite there and until he is he will renain in the booster seat.
Turd Ferguson
June 15th, 2009
9:13 am
Oh brother…more female hysteria about nothing. If you women had your way these poor kids wouldnt obtain a drivers license until they were 23 and breast-feeding would be mandatory until age 5. No wonder now have a nation of wussies and crybaby’s.
Robin…perhaps you might sequester your precious cargo, during transport, inside a fireproof safe.
gpkbsin
June 15th, 2009
9:35 am
my kid’s doctor kept telling me that i should leave my child in rear facing car seat as long as i could. i changed him to front facing at 1 year even after the doctor’s suggestions. i was already having trouble entertaining the child in rear facing seat everyday on the way to daycare and back. if there is no mandatory rule to leave the kid in rear facing seat, i’m keeping the kid front facing :)
April
June 15th, 2009
9:36 am
I too am a car seat fanatic. My almost nine year old is still in a booster seat because she does not meet the height or weight requirements. Her friends have been riding without them for years, and it scares me. I also make my thirteen year old sit in the back because it is safer. We have moved my 4 year old to a booster that has a back and a seat belt positioner. The clip on the side of the booster keeps the seat belt from laying across his neck – decapitation or paralysis can occur if the seat belt crosses the neck during an accident.
However, I can not imagine making him sit facing the rear. He is a little tall for his age, and I think would be very uncomfortable. The crossed legs would be uncomfortable on a short trip – what would happen on the 3 hour trip to the grandparents?
Kathy- I have always been told to put them in the middle. This is the safest place in the event of a side impact collision.
Momof2 – I agree that proper installation is a must. It frustrates me to see people go out and spend a lot of money on a great seat and then not take the time to install it properly. There a lot of places to go to get help if you can not do it and some of them are tricky.
Jeff
June 15th, 2009
9:42 am
hmmm.. so an 80 lb kid would have to do this, but not an 80 lb adult woman? If it is for ’safety’, why are these people against the ’safety’ of adult women?
Could it be that they know that ALL seat belt laws are a GROSS violation of individual liberties?
Quite simple: My life. My decision. and My child’s life. My decision.
Jesse's Girl
June 15th, 2009
9:43 am
According to this, my 10 year old should be in a booster. Yeah right…I almost never allow any of my kids to ride in the front. Man….remeber the days when we were all stuffed in the back seat with no seat belts and mom would ride home with the new baby on her lap?
Kathy
June 15th, 2009
9:51 am
Jesse’s girl… my mom and I were just talking the other day about how she rode home from the hospital 37 years ago with me on her lap!
Did anyone ever lay across the back in the rear window when they were a kid? My dad used to let us do that AND stand up in the front of our van. The crazy things we did back in the day!!
Sugar
June 15th, 2009
9:55 am
Riddle me this Batman – you restrain your child in a car, put them in the backseat for safety, then put them on a school bus with NO restraints? Hmmmmm..
Government law to buckle your kid up, but government transportation has no restraints??????? But you put your precious little cargo on that bus……..
motherjanegoose
June 15th, 2009
9:56 am
Jesse’s Girl….I do and also the days when we had the 3rd seat facing the back window of the station wagon without seatbelts …wonder how that played into rear impact? When I was 16 and new to driving, I had my ( then) 3 year old sister in the front seat with me ( no seatbelt) . She opened her door ( while in motion) and nearly fell out. I grabbed her arm and steared with my left hand as I maneuvered over a one lane bridge out in the country! How did we make it…I do not know! I am an advocate for seatbelts but not sure about these rules.
Becky
June 15th, 2009
10:29 am
Amen Jeff, I have a sister that is 4′9″ and weighs right at 98 lbs., does she need to be in a booster seat at 58 years old? The girl may not be big enough to be out of a booster seat until high school..She’s almost 7 now and only weighs 40 lbs. at 38 inches tall..
MA
June 15th, 2009
10:29 am
Oh yea, I remember the good ole’ days. We used to lie down in the back of the station wagon (we had two with 11 kids!) with our feet hanging out the back window! And, that was on 2 1/2 hour drives! I am glad my kids are grown. They do use their seat belts.
Theresa Walsh Giarrusso
June 15th, 2009
10:43 am
robin — mine didn’t switch to boosters until they were 5 — and now after reading this I may would have fought to keep them in longer — my kids are also very slender so even though by age they are fine in the booster — I’m worried they are too small — hard to tell them they have to go back once they been out of them — walsh is 6 and rose is 8 — so by age they don’t even have to be in boosters but no way they’re getting out of those — moms are surprised when they drive Rose places that I hand them a booster but she’s just too tiny not to have one and that’s what I tell them!
HB
June 15th, 2009
11:18 am
Kathy, I’d move her to the middle section. If the seat is secure I’d think the odds of her flying forward would be slim, but in a side impact, she’ll be safer way from the door. Also, if you have side impact air bags, her seat probably shouldn’t be there. Those who mentioned boosters seats raising children to high for the backseat — those seats probably aren’t as safe as they should be for adults either. Back seats with headrests that are properly raised are safest.
If these recommendations stick, I hope that car manufacturers will design accordingly. It seems like seats in family-targeted vehicles like SUVs and vans that now can lie down or even fold into the floor could be designed to allow the back to flip to the other side of the bench so that kids can face backwards comfortably. Perhaps we’ll see more built in 5-point harnesses as well (I believe some vehicles already have those).
Jesse's Girl
June 15th, 2009
11:51 am
There will always be a new regulation/suggestion regarding everything from booster seats to zippers on kids’ clothing. I am so not going to freak out about this. My kids are buckled…period. I am most certainly not putting my almost 11 year old in a booster seat and I absolutely refuse to place my 6 year old in a rear facing seat. He hasn’t been in any kind of car seat for a year….we have the seat belt adjusters…making the belt fit to his height instead of fitting him to a seat that fits to the belt. There is WAY too much living to be done in our family to worry about every little thing that could maybe possibly go wrong.
sd
June 15th, 2009
12:24 pm
I am glad you posted this as my son keeps asking when he can stop sitting on the booster seat and I keep promising to look up the law but keep forgetting to do it.
He is 6, but doesn’t weigh very much. I guess he has to use it another year or so. If I tell him that the police will arrest me if he doesn’t use it, he won’t argue about it.
Nadia
June 15th, 2009
12:37 pm
This isn’t about anyone being fanatical. It is a safety issue. Everyone in the car would be safer in 5 pt. harnesses, but no way are people going to do that. Am I wrong or do race car drivers use 5 pt. harnesses?
Cammi317
June 15th, 2009
1:11 pm
Can someone explain to me how a 2 or 3 year old, or for that matter a tall 1 year old, could sit facing the rear in a car seat? Where exactly are their legs supposed to go? Makes no sense.
BRC
June 15th, 2009
1:23 pm
Catlady – we had the car sickness problem with our oldest. Every car ride resulted in throwing up. That’s a horrible sound when you’re driving the car alone and your child gets sick. Then poor child has to sit in it until you can find a place to pull over and clean up. There were no more such problems after we turned the carseat to forward facing at 1 year old. In light of these new recommendations, I’m not sure what we would have done.
The difference between having an <80 lb child and an ~80 lb and short adult (I know many Asian ladies who barely meet the minimum recommendations listed here) is that an adult can make the decision for him or herself about whether they want to use a booster seat. A child can not make that kind of safety decision alone.
motherjanegoose
June 15th, 2009
1:34 pm
Jesse’sGirl, I am on your team but how to we figure out when things are actually important enough to personally do something about it? How much should be done? I road in the bed of a pickup MANY times as a child!
I posted a question on Friday’s blog about women drinking 2 glasses of wine per day and the correlation to breast cancer. I was poo pooed with a live and let live mentality.
I have never had cancer but am related to those who have fought it fiercely and both lived/died.
It is not a pretty picture, as I am sure those who have been involved in auto accidents and had children who both lived/died due to using or not using seatbelts.
I try to be informed and we cannot guard against everything but where does one draw the line?
I am all about living but perhaps those who have walked the halls of children’s hospitals know how important a car seat would have been…who knows?
deidre_NC
June 15th, 2009
1:41 pm
im with jg on this…
its a wonde any of us lived! my dad would make a bed in the back of the station wagon for us when we left at 3 am for a vacation..thats 5 kids all piled up all the way to daytona…we used to sit in the little back compartment of the volkswagon…we did all kinds of things that now there are rules against. alto..my little sister did fall out of the back of a pick up when it was making a turn and almost got killed….sooo…but i think these are too old of ages to be in a rear facing seat…
Theresa Walsh Giarrusso
June 15th, 2009
2:00 pm
Hey guys — to deidre’s point of it’s a wonder any us lived — the thing is a lot of people died in car crashes and that has been severely reduced! I don’t have stats off the top of my head but what I do know is that my brother is waiting for a heart for a heart transplant and the wait is much longer now than it used to be because you don’t have well people just dropping dead the way they used to in car wrecks!! Most of the organ donors came from car wrecks and that avenue for organs has been greatly reduced! A doctor literally said to me that “hey it’s a holiday weekend, there are more car accidents on a holiday weekend so more chances for my brother’s heart to come up!!!” so the seat belts and car seats have reduced those deaths a lot!
Deidre this is not an attack on you — I swear! I love you!! my point is only that there were a lot of people, including children, killed in car wrecks when we were young.
momtoAlex&Max
June 15th, 2009
2:04 pm
I’m all for car seats, but no way my 8 year old is going back to 5-point thing OR my 6 year old either. They’ve both been on boosters (and my oldest has recently stoped using that too) for years.
I’m DONE with those things. They are buckled, they are in the back. Enough said on that.
I too remember rolling around in the back seat for hours on car trips. And back then too, cars were a lot less safe than they are now. AND my baby brother rode on my mother’s lap.
We survived.
Becky
June 15th, 2009
2:35 pm
I have a brother that would not be alive today if he had of been wearing a seat belt when he was involved in a wreck as a young adult. The police officer told my mother that if he had of been wearing a seat belt, it would of cut him in half..I also lost a good friend that would still be alive today if she had not of been wearing a seat belt..So I’m torn on the seat belt issue..
Turd Ferguson
June 15th, 2009
3:03 pm
Just as rehab is for quitters.
Seatbelts are for pansies.
Photius
June 15th, 2009
3:50 pm
Someone won’t let her 13 year old sit up front??? A Teenager??? Can we say paranoid overprotective?
HB
June 15th, 2009
3:50 pm
I grew up in riding in the back of pickup trucks and only putting on seatbelts for long trips (no one wore them just to go to the store — they were for the highway!), stretched out on the backseat on long trips, may have even been held by my mom in the font seat on the way home from the hospital, and cars were possibly less safe than now, and I survived. Of course, that’s probably because we were never actually in a wreck. How about the rest of you mentioning the olden days? Were you ever in serous wrecks in those situations? Did you emerged unharmed?
motherjanegoose
June 15th, 2009
4:04 pm
HB….you are correct…no wrecks in our family…
Living here in Atlanta and with our nutty traffic, the stakes are WAY higher!
JATL
June 15th, 2009
4:20 pm
I think people have gone nuts! YES, I really want my kids to be safe, but at some point they have to be let out of their “cages” -carseats, helmets, padding, etc. Do kids today even have any scars they’ll laugh about in adulthood? I’m ALL for seatbelts and small children and infants being in carseats. When a kid is big enough to fit a regular seat belt though, he or she should be allowed to ride that way. My 3 year old would never shut up if I turned him back around, and I don’t know what he would do with his legs. I guess crossing them would be ok for a trip to the store, but what about the hour plus to the grandparents or the beach trip we just took where we were in the car for 10 hours (of course we took breaks, but hours at a time were in the car)?
I spent my childhood perched on the FRONT seat armrest of my parents cars just ready to go flying through the windshield if we had a wreck. I also rode in the back of many pick ups and never heard of a bike helmet until I was grown. I think some innovations are great -like I said for infants and toddlers -but geez! Have they done studies on adult passengers? Maybe we’re all safer facing the rear and the driver should dress in football padding. I would definitely be dead if I didn’t wear a seat belt. I have had several bad wrecks, and my head smashed the windshield in one even with a seat belt on (none were my fault). I just think the safety police get a little carried away. I get the feeling these are the same people who buy the padded helmets for their babies and toddlers from One Step Ahead -not because the kid has a head problem, but just because they’ve started crawling or cruising around….
JJ
June 15th, 2009
4:30 pm
Well, this pansie isn’t driving in Atlanta without a seatbelt. Too many scary drivers out there……
Lori
June 15th, 2009
4:51 pm
I can’t imagine a rear facing older child. There is no place for their legs at all. And of course, after hearing this study, parents are going to want to keep their 40 lb 4 yr olds in the 5 pt harness. I had a convertible booster for my son, but the harness system was only rated for up to 40 lbs, so please read your car seats manual to be sure you aren’t putting your child in danger if they are over 40 lbs. If you want to keep the harness, you may need to change to a different seat.
I think the best idea is for car manufacturers to come up with an adjustible seat belt for older kids. For that matter, there are many small women out there who are under 5 ft tall and really aren’t safe in their own cars because the shoulder belt hits them across the neck instead of their shoulder/chest area. I can’t understand why car companies can’t come up with some sort of sliding system to allow seatbelts to be adjusted based on the sitting height of the passenger. This would work well for short and tall adults, and they could make it adjust farther down in the back seats for kids. A custom fit would allow every passenger to be the safest they could be even after they are too old for the car seats.
Mom Of 2
June 15th, 2009
5:13 pm
There is no way my 6yo is big enough to not use a booster. On the other side, there is no way my 4yo would be willing to go back in a 5 point harness, much less turn back around. The 6yo is in a backless booster, the 4yo in one with a back that helps position the seat belt. The older one borrows the spare w/ back booster for long trips so that he has somewhere to lean his head on the side.
Per basic physics, everyone would be safer facing backward with a 5 point harness – oh, but then we’d be running into each other because the drivers couldn’t see the road. It’s hard trying to find the middle ground of what to regulate. I figure if the kid can sit w/o the booster, with the seat belt in the right place, and knees actually at the end of the seat instead of legs sticking out front (which encourages sliding down and forward, not a safe way to sit) then they don’t need the booster any more. When this standard is met will depend on the make/model of car as well as the build of the child.
FCM
June 15th, 2009
5:18 pm
A friend and I go rounds about this. BOTH of my children are taller than hers. One is older and one is younger than hers. I called her today to let her know that while the NTBS said height/weight LAW said age…..Both of my children had to reach 50 lbs and 4 feet tall before I let them out of the booster….they were both over 7 when that happened.
Now when her child found out that most of the friends don’t have one and have fits about the seat.
My children were already finding ways to not sit properly in the booster when I let them out. NO NO NO I do not want to put them back in those hard uncomfortable boosters.
YES YES YES I want them safe, so they have to sit correctly with a seatbelt on!
FCM
June 15th, 2009
5:18 pm
NASCAR requires a 5 pt harness and the safety helmets since Dale Earnhart Sr died.
penguinmom
June 15th, 2009
5:45 pm
I can’t imagine having a 2,3 or 4year old rear facing. Not unless there are going to be specially designed seats to accommodate their legs.
As far as the 20lbs and 1year old thing, I always felt like when the child was straining to sit upright and not putting their head against the support in the rear facing seat that it seemed more dangerous to leave them turned backwards. We probably made it to 20 lbs with all of ours but pretty sure it was a little before 1 year.
My 9-year-old still rides in a booster seat because she likes being higher up. She doesn’t need it weight or height wise but I’m happy as long as she is.
On the other hand, my 13-year-old is very slender and doesn’t quite reach the 80-lb mark. Seriously, I’m not going to put my 8th grader in a booster seat.
I come back to the fact that we all survived for years without any car seats at all. Yes, people drive faster now and there are more cars. That’s why we have some additional safety features. There is nothing that is going to be 100% safe so you have to make sensible decisions that allow reasonable comfort and reasonable safety.
motherjanegoose
June 15th, 2009
6:00 pm
I meant…no wrecks in my family that grew up without seatbelts…my husband has had 3 wrecks in the past 15 years here in Atlanta. He had his seatbelt on all times and the airbags deployed once. No major injuries for him. Driving on the interstate here in Atlanta ( to me) is worse than most anywhere else.
I get a kick out of it when I am on the interstate say in Memphis, Minneapolis, Oklahoma City or even Phoenix and at rush hour where the traffic is cruising at 60 mph. Not many places have it as bad as we do here and you see several wrecks every day. Drivers are nuts!
penguinmom
June 15th, 2009
6:09 pm
Okay, I was curious about the statement ‘a lot of people, including children, were killed in car wrecks when we were young.’ So, I did a search. The only place I could find statistics from the 70’s was Washington State which said that 148 kids between 0-4 years old were killed in the entire decade of the 1970’s. It was 0.4% of the almost 40,000 kids involved in accidents for that time period in Washington.
http://www.washingtonaccidentbook.com/practice_areas/washington-state-car-accident-statistics.cfm
So significantly less than 1% of the toddlers involved in accidents in Washington state died in the 70’s. That’s pretty low number/percentage especially considering that a lot of the kids involved in all of the accidents were not in child seats.
I’m glad we’ve improved safety and hopefully that number/percentage is even lower now. The article does mention that those who were in car seats survived at a much higher percentage. However, there is never going to be a perfect solution that will bring the percentage down to zero percent. It is very sad but unfortunately true.
Elisabeth
June 16th, 2009
3:46 am
I’ve just been trying to find some pictures to show me how on earth toddlers are supposed to go in rear-facing car seats – can’t find any! Just loads of “is shown to be better” etc.
My children moved into boosters by 3 1/2 with huge relief on their legs which were getting very cramped in the harness seats – forward facing. They will stay on boosters long term but are likely to reach height guidelines for coming out of them well before age 12. I think the rules I’m familiar with (Australian and UK) tend to say age 12 you can start treating children like adults regardless of size, which allows you to let small teens out of boosters if they are no longer appropriate.
Bernadette
June 16th, 2009
9:34 am
For all those parents who think this is a joke, please come to my place of work—I’ve worked in a Neuro ICU (and many icus for that matter) where head/neck injuries are NO JOKE–it has nothing to do w/ being overprotective–it’s finally being smart–I hope new guidelines and laws are enforced soon–you’ll thank us later..
deidre_NC
June 16th, 2009
9:52 am
theresa no offense taken at all!! i actually agree with you on auto safety…but also there are so many more cars now and the cars of old were a lot tougher…i swear i look at teenagers (including mine) driving these little tin boxes and pray after i cringe…if i still lived in atlanta i swear id make mine drive a tank…my kids have had several loss of friends from car wrecks..i had one friend die in a car wreck from a drunk driver. in my whole life. life is safer in some aspects-its just that come on…a 6 year old facing rear? as everyone says where do their legs go? sometimes we just have to say ok we have done all we can to be safe..now lets live…as my youngest said to me when she was 5–mom theres also a 50% chance i WONT get hurt….we cant just live in a bubble…or sit on the couch because its safe. im thinking of my 3 five year old grandkids—none of them would fit backwards-no way…their legs would be squshed and they would be very uncomfortable.
btw i am a fanatic about everyone in my car being buckled..always have been since seat belts were invented. its just i am so sick of being told what to do with every move i make. sorry…and i know people who need to be told..a lady here had her child in a car seat-in the middle of the back seat..NOT BUCKLED for christ sake…and she wrecked (not her fault) and her child flew thru the front windshield and was killed. come on. so i know seat belts and car seats are good thing…there just comes a time when we have to say ok its in gods hands and our own common sense. we cant stop every bad thing from happening..i wish we could but we cant.
yall have a great day!
deidre_NC
June 16th, 2009
10:00 am
i have to add this….its not related to cars at all..but here goes..there are so many kids dying each day from the abuse of legal drugs…why dont they spend as much money doing something about that as they do seat belt safety? prescription drug abuse is the worst drug abuse happening here in this country today..even more so that meth. just saying!
FCM
June 16th, 2009
12:28 pm
The law in GA says something about being 12 to be in the front unless the other seats are occupied. My eldest loves when friends are in the car with us, because only then can she ride shotgun…..Unless she is with her grandpa in his two seater convertible :o) In his car we push the seat all the way back as far as it will go and strap her in. This allows for extra room if the airbag were to deploy and is recommended by the manufacturer.
One other thing about the standard seatbelts and children. I bought those seatbelt covers (I think ours are lambs wool) that velcro on. They wear those on the seatbelts at collar area. So does my mother who is not tall (right at 5 feet but her weight meets the requirements) and this will allow extra protection from decapiation according to some officers I know….Not 100% fool proof, but better than just that plain edge against your neck.
penguinmom
June 16th, 2009
8:14 pm
I actually have no problems with the government issuing guidelines or suggestions about how to improve your child’s safety in the car.
Where I have a problem is when laws and regulations are passed forcing these guidelines on us. At some point, the level of safety should be a matter of parental choice. Yes, everyone should wear seatbelts. Yes, young children should be in car seats. But when to move them up, how long they have to be rear facing, how long they have to be in a booster should be safety Guidelines not laws.
Nicole
June 18th, 2009
9:46 am
To be quite honest..I don’t care the age height, weight..etc..if it makes my kids safer, then I’m all for it..they could be 15 for all I care..if they found factual evidence that said..that 15 year old would be safer in a carseat..then my 15 year old would be in one. 5 point harnesses? sometimes..when I see the way people drive? I wish I had a 5 point harness..so to me? they should change all the seatbelts to a 5 point harness. Anything that can make being in a car safer for me and my children would be just fine for me..no matter how silly it looked, no matter how uncomfortable it was. The fact is…more and more teenagers are on the road, and more and more older folks are on the road these days…and people in my opinion are more careless…..if I can figure out where the legs go, and its proven to be more effective in protection, then yes..my 4 year old would be in one. and if my daughter was 12…she would still be in one…age doesn’t matter..safety does.
Stacy
June 19th, 2009
8:49 pm
Both of my kids will be RF till 40lbs and in a 5pt harness until 80 lbs. I dont care how old they are. It is safer. To the people who are saying that by their standers you should be in booster seat: There is alot of difference in the insides of adult compared to a child. My son is now 2 and still rides rear facing and is not uncomfortable at all. I would rather him break his legs than his neck and be paralyzed..also have you guys ever heard of internal decapitation??the child’s spine can “snap in half” when facing *forward* if their neck and spine isn’t formed enough to handle crash forces. A childs spinal column is not fused all the way together until at least 6yrs of age.
DB
June 22nd, 2009
4:24 pm
ANYONE would be “safer” in a five-point harness!! 40 lbs is somewhat arbitary — my son hit that much sooner than most, because he was tall/big for his age. They both enjoyed the Kangaroo booster seats until they were old enough to see out the window on their own. As long as the seat belt is fitted properly as they are growing (i.e., using a clip that keeps the belt from around the kid’s neck), you are taking reasonable precautions, and that’s fine by me.
Yes, ANYTHING can happen to kids. You can make yourself and everyone around you crazy trying to anticipate every single little possibility, or you can take reasonable precautions and live your life.
I can remember when seat belts were “optional safety equipment”, sitting in the backseat floor of our car during trips and reading in a cozy little nest. My mother still shakes her head over the “portable bassinet” that she used when I was a baby, that simply was a little playpen for infants to sleep in that you popped in the backseat. Of course, this was mid-1950’s!
mjbrox
June 24th, 2009
1:43 pm
As many of you have pointed out yes, I remember being stretched out in the back of car with out a seat belt and yes mothers use to carry newborns on their laps and yes they survived.
However more children died in car crashes. In fact the rate of vehicle occupant deaths for children 1-3 years old has decreased by over 50% in the last 30 years!
That is a pretty impressive statistics considering how much more time kids seem to spend in cars these days.
http://www.saferidinkidz.com/files/RearFacingBest_DrBull_et_al.pdf
Car seat safety fanatic? I do not think so. The statistics are clear. Rear facing is safer.
Does that mean that if you face your kid forward they will die? No of course not, but they are more likely to die if you are in a crash. Let me repeat that. They are more likely to die in a crash.
Sasha
August 6th, 2009
10:43 pm
my third grader is still in a booster AND will remain in one until she is 4′9″ – to me it’s a bunch of whoey to say “my kid is too old” … you’re never too “big” to be safe! as for the legs, kids can sit comfortably in a criss cross applesauce position – and some even enjoy having their legs straight up the back of the vehicles seat … broken legs can be fixed MUCH easier than a broken neck!
Nikola
September 4th, 2009
1:33 am
I am also glad to see this on here. Ok I volunteer at a pregnancy here in Georgia. This past monday a woman came in & said she got a $700 fine for her 8 month old that weighed 20lbs and 9 oz still being in an infant car seat. The Cop took out a scale and weighed the baby. Now the baby is to be rear facing till the age of 1 AND 20 lbs, but the infant seats only go up till 20lbs then you have to find them another rear facing seat. That they ride in till they are 1 and 20 lbs before turning around. Booster seats without harnesses are for toddlers that are 4 AND 40lbs. Not 4 and 37lbs. The laws are strict & seem a little much but it’s your precious gift from GOD that’s at risk if you don’t follow the laws. Forget about the fines, it’s their safety that should be your NUMBER 1 priority.
Today at the pregnancy center a 20 something year old woman came in and her 5 month old son was in a infant carseat, but listen to this she did not have the harness on him at all. Ya’ll she just drove in the car with her baby basically not in a car seat because all that was holding that baby in was the lap belt from the car itself & the wonderful grace of GOD. I had a fit!!!!!!! She took the car seat appart to clean it and then didn’t know how to put it back together. It didn’t look that clean at all so I can only imagine how long she had been riding around like that. We gave her another seat that he fits i properly now and I gave her the printable pamphlet on the Georgia site. Hope she reads it. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Ok sorry just can’t stand it. I would rather know my kids or grandkids as I have are safe in a car at all times.
Nikola
September 4th, 2009
2:01 am
I think a lot of this issue is greatly dependant on being in formed and knowing the Laws. To me you really can’t go back to when you were younger and not in seat belts. EVERYTHING has changed, how the cars are made, more and more drivers on the roads, cell phones and other distractions that we have now as we drive. You have to admit there was less distractions then. So then less accidents. It’s just no where near as safe as it was. I had never heard of any child over 1 year still rear facing. Ok that is rediculous I have to agree with that. Where is that information I’d sure like to read it?
nixie
October 25th, 2009
12:47 am
My 4 month old weighs 21 lbs I anticipate him weighing over 35 lbs before he is a year that is the upper limit on most rearfacing car seats. What are parents of heavier babies to do to keep their babies rear facing till age 1? (he is also very tall)