Is tattooing a child worse than piercing ears, circumcision?

Seriously…do you have nothing better to write about today?

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Wow, trying to stoke some fires and save your job at the AJC with crap like this? Why not talk about Mike Vick too?

TATOO= PERMANENT AND ARTISTIC EXPRESSION
PIERCED EARS= GHETTO TRASH
CIRCUMCISION= HEALTH BENEFITS, and doesn’t give your son a odd looking member.

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It’s about the same as piercing the ears. I don’t know why so many self-absorbed parents feel the need to pierce an infants ears. What a bunch of idiots. If the kid wants it when they’re old enough to decide, go for it…but to force it upon them is cruel and barbaric.

Oh, and a “Daddy’s Boy” tattoo? That’s gonna lead to a load of ass-kickings at school and go over GREAT when that kid ends up in prison.

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Of course tattooing is worse than piercing ears. Tattoos are a permanent mark; however, ear piercings can close and never have to be used again. Circumcising (which I had performed on my son)I feel is the best decision you can ever make for your child. Less germs, easier to clean your private area instead of having to pull skin back, etc. Also, if my child had some crazy bushy eyebrows he/she would just have to live with it until they have atleast reach their mid teen years(15 or 16).

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Really? I’m honestly at a loss for words.

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I have never been a fan of piercing a child’s ears when they do not have a choice ( our daughter had hers done at 9 I think) but at least it can grow back.

Circumcision is usually done for religious or health reasons, I think that is too in a different category. I am not a tattoo fan ( just my opinion) and chuckled last week when one reader shared that it is becoming a very popular thing to do “inside the perimeter” . What if you move AWAY from the perimeter …will everyone else simply know that this is the norm here or would they raise their eyebrows?

Kind of like in Arkansas they wear ball caps inside to eat at restaurants with overalls and farm boots…I am not sure this would fly at a chi chi restaurant in Buckhead, or at least it would get a few looks.

I try to look at the bigger picture, since I am all over the US map and see things elsewhere that I had no idea about, here in metro Atlanta.

Not trying to hijack but we saw a trendy couple walk into Chops in Naples FL at 9:30 p.m. with a baby in a stroller. FOLKS…babies need to be in bed at this hour and if you can afford CHOPS you can afford a babysitter….the other diners do not want to hear your precious interrupting their $$$ dinner.

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I want to preface this by saying that I am a bit of an ink addict (although without the funds to get as much as I’d like). My ears were pierced when I was 6 by my request. If I were to have changed my mind, they could have closed up and it would have been over with. I do agree with the health benefits of circumcision, although I know a few guys from South America that swear by the “natural” look. Tattooing is definitely something that should not be done until one is an adult and fully capable of making that decision for themselves. Had I gotten half the tattoos I thought I wanted when I was a preteen or teen, I’d have everything from NKOTB to kittens tatted on me. Children can’t make that decision and parents should know better. There was another story out of California where a father and his gang buddy held down his 7 yr old son and tattooed the gang symbol on his hip. It’s a scary world out there sometimes.

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Thank you Reluctant!

MJG — My husband goes nuts when guys wear ball caps into restaurants — huge pet peeve of his. As far as babies in restaurants late at night, we just back from Disney and there were sooo many kids up past their bed times — including our own! Some cranky kids in that place — But more on Disney in the next few days!!!

And I believe a POP QUIZ for tomorrow on Traveling Dilemmas for Disney —- Tune it for photos and fun!!

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No tattoos or body piercings on children.Circumcisions are beneficial ,health wise.

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Can’t add anything new, but like most, piercing is VERY different from tattooing. Ask anyone with a tattoo about the pain and how long the procedure lasted. Also, babies and small children do not need pierced ears. Why do some parents feel the need to “decorate” their babies?

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I agree that circumcision is irrelevant to this tattoo/piercing debate. I understand the culture is shifting away from circumcision recently, but most parents who choose to circumcise are not doing it for cosmetic reasons (like tattoos or piercings) but rather for health or religious reasons.

However, I also completely disagree with infant ear piercing. Whether or not the baby cries, everyone who has had ears pierced knows there is pain involved for a time. It needs to be the child’s decision when they are old enough to understand what they are doing and have a part in the cleaning and upkeep. I’ve never understood the cuteness or appeal of earrings on a baby. That’s what clothes, hats, and hairbows are for!

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Thanks Becky…I have been trying to tell the complainers this forever…they are too stupid to figure it out. NO ONE can share ideas every day that are fascinating to EVERYONE…get it folks? Even talk show hosts on TV have a bit of help and I doubt Theresa has an assistant who she runs her columns by…but maybe so. Some do not appeal to me but so what.

Theresa…I MAY tolerate children in restaurants at Disney but Chops is not in the same league.

My sister and I stopped at Naples Fl. Chili’s last summer around 9:00 p.m.o on a Sunday night. We had a late flight to Florida.

There was a couple in the booth across from us tossing back margaritas with an infant and a 4 year old who were crying and whining, as they were tired. I shuddered and worried for those kids.
Skip a couple of drinks and leave them HOME!

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Tattoos are definitely worse, but I hate seeing babies with pierced ears. Possible source of pain and infection often done so that darling princess isn’t mistaken for a boy at 6 months old — stupid!

MJG did hit on a pet peeve of mine, though. “9:30 p.m. with a baby in a stroller. FOLKS…babies need to be in bed at this hour…” Why? Seriously, give me one good reason why babies need to be in bed early. They have somewhere to be in the morning? Little babies are up every few hours anyway, so what difference does it make? Once they start sleeping through the night, why go to bed early? I have friends who are a young couple with one child. They both work, and often the whole family isn’t together at the end of the day until 7. They didn’t put their baby to bed until 10-10:30 when he was under a year and sleeping 8-9 hours through the night. That gave them more time to spend with him in the evening and the option of not having to rush home to keep to baby’s early schedule. It also made morning’s easier because he didn’t wake up until around 7 (they loved not having baby wake them up at 5!), so they got up a little earlier and were showered and fully awake before he needed them. But of course, they got ugly looks and comments about how it was too late for a baby to be out if they were out with him at 9-9:30. Why are people such busy-bodies? The child was healthy and happy and it’s nobody’s business but theirs what the family schedule is!

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IMHO none of this is as bad for children as mothers that insist on taking 2 and 3 year old children and entering them in “beauty” pageants. Dressing them up and applying make up and making them look like little hookers. If you have ever been to one of these things you will find that the ones who really want to win are the mothers, not the kids. The kids could care less. Usually the kids are back stage either playing with other kids or crying that they want to go home. I was employed as a paramedic to stand by at one of these events and while I was backstage I saw one mother (and I use the term loosely) slap a little 4 year old girl in the face because she didn’t want to go on stage. I quickly informed this moron that if I saw anything like that again I personally would have her arrested for child abuse. They need to shut those things down…all they are doing seems to me is teach young girls that they can get whatever they want by flaunting their bodies. Amen

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I am not a fan of tattoos, but if you like them, then go for it if you are of age. However, tattoos for a baby is ludicrous and illegal. This is the first time I have heard so many negative comments about ear piercings for little girls. I do not live “inside the perimeter” and do not think it is “white or ghetto trash” as stated in earlier posts. I had my ears pierced as an infant and pierced my daughter’s ears. She only wore little stud earrings until her teen years. I know a guy who wasn’t circumcised as a child and had the procedure as an adult. I understand it was a very unpleasant couple of weeks afterwards. Not only did he do it for the cleanliness factor, but not being circumcised affected his social life as women were grossed out by the appearance of an uncircumcised member.

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Getting a tat involves a prolonged event for anyone… tiny needles poking at your skin…..to say nothing of getting one with actual color! It hurts most adults….for some it is merely uncomfy. But for children….I can’t imagine how bad it must feel. They experience everything to a greater degree than adults! While I think it is silly to pierce an infant’s ears….it is a very quick event for them. If you tatoo your kid….YOU ARE TRASHY and you have an ill regard for your child’s body. We don’t live in tribes here people….tatoos are not a part of our daily lives denoting our station in life. Its for decoration……don’t decorate your kid.

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In quite a few countries around the world, infants are tattood early on. In W.Africa, babies have facial scarring done (not painful, just involves scratching the skin with some coal-dust like stuff that causes a permanent mark on the skin), ear piercings, nose piercings, etc. Girls also have permanent tattooing under their eyes (like permanent eyeliner – it’s gorgeous). In all of these places, the purpose is to benefit the child socially. It marks him or her as belonging to a certain social group, it makes him or her more appealing to others. It is socially accepted as beautiful and proper.

I think the difference with this “DB” tattoo is that would seem to benefit the father who did it – it seems like it was a selfish and childish act. There was no conceivable benefit to the child to whom it was done, and it isn’t socially acceptable by the community in which the child lives. Therein lies the problem.

In this country, parents who pierce the ears of their infant children do so because they believe it makes them cuter, more beautiful, whatever. It is socially acceptable, whether or not everyone partakes. Male circumcision is also acceptable and is an action to benefit the child, either for health reasons, or to make the child a part of a religious or social group and increase their acceptance desirability to that group.

When it comes down to it, the pain of a tattoo or circumcision or piercing is short lived and forgotten by a child. What lives on is the permanent change that some trusted adult made to the child. If that change was to benefit the child, was done out of love, does not constitute a health risk to the child (I’m thinking female circumcision here), and is socially acceptable and desirable in the child’s social network, then I don’t see a problem. But I don’t think the ‘DB’ tattoo fits into this. Really, it comes down to the difference between good parents, who think through benefit vs. harm to their children when making permanent decisions on their behalf, and not-so-good parents, who act on a whim or only think about what will make themselves happy at the moment…

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I think that all three things are a bad idea to do to babies and wouldn’t pierce, tatoo, or circumsize my son.

However, I am not judgemental about that. If others want to do that to their children, who am I to judge?

In some tribal cultures, ritual tatooing is seen as normal. However, cutting off part of your childs penis is seen as barbaric.

So if some tribe tatoos their child in South America, why can’t rednecks do the same. It allows others to be able to see the child and know he belongs to the tribe/rednecks.

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sleep…check it out:
http://www.oh-pin.org/articles/pex-03-good-sleep-and-bedtime-ha.pdf

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ear piercing can grow back, circumcision is done for cleanliness, tattoo is a stigma that the child would have to endure thru school–unless painfully removed especiallly amature tattoo
i love tattoos but let child decide when older

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I always thought that an ID number tattooed on a babies behind at the hospital would be a great way to identify them if they ever got kidnapped. Small and covered by clothes but every ones in the same spot.

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I think the use of the word “Consent” when tlking about kids is a load of crock. There are lots of things that children don’t “Consent” to that are for their benefit like going to the dentist/doctor, attending school or even bathing everyday. Although I don’t think tattoos should be given to kids, I also don’t think its anyone’s business when or why you choose to pierce your daughters ears or get your son circumcised. And to the men saying that they feel violated, give me a break, You wouldn’t have known that you were snipped unlessed someone told you.

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Are you seriously comparing tattoos to circumcision? Need I say more? Thought not, I rest my case.

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thanks DB…I am with you on cell phones too! My husband goes nuts with it!

While we do not ALWAYS agree, I find your comments quite sensible and thought provoking. Question…did you take your toddlers out to eat a 9:30 p.m….or were they in bed…just wondering! I am guessing that you would not take 4 children to join you at CHOPS or maybe so….LOL>

Photius…we have almost met the level of comments for a full day yesterday and it is not even 10:00 a.m. Must NOT be laundry day for ANYONE….LOL!

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The Voice, amen on that..I have watched Toddlers and Tiaras a couple of times and I would like to strangle those Moms..

As for tattoos and ear piercing, I don’t think anyone should get a tat until they are at least 21..Of course most of my family would disagree with that..As I said on another topic last week, my nephew’s fiance let her 14 year old son get a tattoo..Actually he now has 4 (I think)..I’ve never really given that much thought about ear piercing on babies..Most of the girls in my family didn’t get their ears pierced until 5-6..I didn’t get mine pierced until I was 16..

The one thing that I don’t understand is why this isn’t considered child endangerment..

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yes, but when it comes to taking your children to a nice restaurant, as a responsible parent (regardless of the situation) you need to show respect for other diners if you expect to be treated with respect as well. Crying children, misbehaving rugrats and bratty children are NOT my problem. They are the problem of crappy parents who don’t have enough sense to control their children or leave them with a sitter. I AM a parent, but I am a respectful one. If my child were ever in a restaurant, regardless of the time of day or trype of restaurant, if there were ever any questionable behavior, crying or temper tantrums, I would take my child out of the restaurant and allow the other diners there to enjoy the meal they paid for. Not to do so would be rude and impolite. My children should not be the cause of their ruined meal, just as others should not hte the cause of ruin for my dinner.

Let’s just face it, some people have no common sense in matters like these.

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JJ….you are correct MOSTLY maybes are involved here.

RE: signs for age limits at restaurants… I DO see signs about not using cell phones and self absorbed folks pay no attention. There are speeding signs and does EVERYONE ( including me) pay attention. Courtesy and manners are flying out the window with the idea of :IF you have a problem with that, its YOUR problem, not mine……

Kind of like:
MY GRASS IS UP TO MY KNEES AND FULL OF WEEDS or I JUST HAD MY HOUSE PAINTED ORANGE or I AM OVERHAULING THE ENGINE OF A BUS IN MY DRIVEWAY or I HAVE 2 GOATS AND A ROOSTER IN MY BACK YARD and IF you have a problem with that, its YOUR problem, not mine……

This is why some folks live in neighborhoods that have rules ( we may not always like them) as they tend to keep folks in line and able to co exist with courteous respect of other’s rights too and not just our own. Those of us who live in these neighborhoods may be like those of us who want to eat in peace at CHOPS. Others should head to Cracker Barrel LOL.

FYI..If I am a busy body who has spoken to self absorbed parents that are dangerously letting their children RUN AMOK all over restaurants while servers are carrying trays of hot food and carafes of hot coffee, then why do these same servers and managers thank me profusely and tell me that parents are NUTS these days but they fear they will not leave the a tip if they approach them to complain about their children. I do not think they would thank me if I was doing something that was ignorant…just my opinion. I do know about school and teaching but nothing about restaurants. Outta here!

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ooops…”were doing something ignorant…”

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I am shocked at the women here who put down men that are not circumsised. My husband isn’t and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Sex is the best un-cut and it’s definately not gross looking. The ones saying this are speaking from ignorance in my opinion.

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Hey jb – I bet if your husband WAS circumsised, you wouldn’t have it any other way……

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MJG, please read my post again.

1) I argued against your assertion that the baby should be in bed at 9:30. I did not address whether or not it’s a good idea to take a baby to a high end restaurant, although frankly, I don’t have a problem with it if the child is quiet and the parents jump up to take the child outside if they get cranky. And just curious, how do you know the child wasn’t quiet, or that the parents didn’t take him/her out if he/she got fussy? You said you only saw them walk in. And nowhere did I say it’s wrong for someone to complain about something affecting them or to say something to parents whose children are running wild putting themselves and others in danger. My friends got nasty glares and comments about bedtimes just for having their baby out and about because apparently they were negligent parents for not putting their baby to bed earlier. Those people were being busy bodies — complaining about noisy neighbors is not.

2) The recommendation of more hours of night sleep is not for babies — it is for older children. Babies’ sleep needs are typically calculated by 24-hour cycle. As I clearly stated, my friends had that schedule when their baby was under a year old, and they did not wake him up in the morning — he woke up on his own 8-9 hours after going to sleep and napped 2-3 times a day. According to the article you posted, that is appropriate. Babies’ night sleep patterns get longer as they get older, and parents are lucky if they get 8-9 hours at a stretch at night from infants. Now as a 2-year-old, this child goes to bed by 8:30, wakes up on his own at 7-7:30, and takes an afternoon nap. So please explain, what does my description of my friends’ infant’s schedule have to do with children being too tired at school?

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OOOPs, sorry… HB did I miss the “napped 2-3 times a day” in the morning post… was it just me?

Your friends may certainly be the exception to the rule and why many other parents gave nasty glares as they have seen the majority of these young parents with no clue.

Just curious, do you have children…I cannot remember.

Your friend’s child has nothing to do with children at school…I made that point to say there are way too many children who are NOT getting enough sleep….again, ask a teacher or a pediatrician.

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I do not have children. I have many years of babysitting/nanny and teaching experience (kids from 2 weeks old up through high school). The naps were not specifically mentioned earlier. I only said he slept for an 8-9 hour stretch at night before waking up, which most people who work with or have children know is a pretty good night stretch for an infant. I didn’t realize that I needed to tick off nap times so that readers wouldn’t assume the infant only slept one time for 8-9 hours in a 24-hour period, especially since I mentioned that little babies sleep off and on for a few hours at a time.

And why do you assume my friends are the exception to the rule and that other parents whose babies are out at 9:30 have no clue? Based on your description of 75 energetic kids running around and one who was lethargic, it seems that child’s parents were the exception. I’ve just noticed that you seem to have a very negative outlook on people in general. The majority of young parents don’t have a clue, nobody has manners, you’re sickened that people don’t stand when soldiers walk by in airports…every day! Sheesh! You just seem to look awfully hard for what people are doing wrong. I asked my soldier friend, by the way, if people stood in airports when he walked by in uniform and if it offended them if they didn’t. He replied, “Huh? Are they supposed to? If people stood everytime a soldier walked by at BWI, no one would ever sit!” He did say he was touched by how many people walk up to him and thank him for his service, though. That’s what I do personally to show my appreciation, so please don’t be sickened if I don’t follow your rule of standing when you see me.

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Boys are not circumcised in Scandinavia (Finland, Sweden, Denmark) and they have the lowest sexually transmitted disease rates in the western world over there. Circumcision is a fraud and a social custom that needs to stop. All three things (tattoo, piercing, circumcision) should not be done until the child can consent at 18 years of age.

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Perhaps in comments here, I appear negative. I will share what clients said about me last week in Florida and these are actual comments I am reading them ( from my clients) now:

“entertaining, fun, creative, energetic and informative …love your one liners”

Maybe I am just better suited in an educational arena. I do get negative about those who seem to have no sense or courtesy for others.

Is your friend in Atlanta? I am speaking about being in the atrium at Hartsfield and when they march together in a group with those who volunteer to escort them to the service personnel lounge,
most folks here will stand. I have not seen this in other airport and I know I did not clarify this and I apologize.

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION and one held by lots of other parents whom I know….
after you have your own children, you see things differently. I had LOTS of opinions about children and taught for 5 years before had my own but it IS different when you go home to your own….you know more when you are up with them at night vomiting, an ear infection, hopping on the bus for the first time or even driving a car alone for the first time. If I am the only one who feels this way, then I may be the only one but I think there may be at least 5 or 6 others out there.

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Well, first of all MJG -you should have read the entire post from me regarding tattoos “inside the perimeter”. I said it was becoming very popular to put your children’s names and birthdates in a tattoo around here -NOT tattooing in general -BIG DIFFERENCE! Most “tramp stamp” tattoos (lower back tats) I see are on a bunch of suburban teenage girls wandering suburban malls whenever I find it necessary to venture to one. Tattooing has almost become passe because so many people EVERYWHERE do it these days! Quite honestly I wish they were still somewhat unusual. When I got mine, it wasn’t something a lot of people did, so I wouldn’t care if I moved somewhere where no one had any -it would actually be nice (as long as it wasn’t suburban Atlanta -been there/done that/hated it).

Onto today’s topic -REALLY?? Theresa, are your ears pierced? As one who has both tattoos and her ears pierced, there’s NO comparison to the few seconds from a piercing gun and the time involved on even a simple tattoo. I don’t find them particularly painful, but I cannot IMAGINE holding a two or three year old down and doing what feels like a pin prick or slow knife cut on their body for anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. My 3 year old would have to be tied up! That was a big question of mine regarding this story -how did he get the kid to be still? I think it’s horrible! Definitely falls under “child abuse”! I’m not even going to get back into the circumcision debate -both of my boys are and I’m glad.

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Circumcision is most certainly not a fraud…how silly. It began as a cleanliness issue and was thought to be much more pleasing to G-d, more respectful. Of course we now know that the cleanliness aspect is small(if the man bathes daily, if not, he should be circumcized)…but the tradition is enormous and meaningful.

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MJG, I’m not sure how much time you spend at the airport but I am there at least twice a week as I travel a lot (too much at times!) with my job and I’ve yet to see anyone standing up for any military personnel passing by, whether it be in the atrium, baggage claim, or where ever.

I’ve been in other airports, mostly up north, where people show far more respect for military personnel than we ever do here.

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The tradition is somehwat a fraud. The Egyptians started it and the Israelites were marked as slaves with it. It is believed the Abraham circ was very minor compared to today. Historians point to a rewrtie of the Torah believed to force Jews to have a radial circ, so they would look cut (and would not pass themselves off as gentile).
In the US it was not at all about being clean, but about curtailing masturbation. Both the religious tradition and the US nutter tradition are about lessining male sexual pleasure.

I think it is a bit out there to say God gave us these pleasure parts and then really wants us to cut them off out of respect for what (his creation)?

People get fired up about this and I sure do. Hurting babies, taking this from them and making a culture where natual healthy men are considered odd gets me very upset.

Keep that knife away from the baby boy.

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HEY … If you want to cicumcise YOUR kid, then do it, if you don’t, then don’t. And don’t pass judgement on people who do not see things your way.

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MJG: No, I never took a small child to an expensive restaurant, because at that point, I was a) too excited to have a meal at a restaurant that didn’t have a drive-thru! and b) I was too cheap to pay Chop prices for a few bites of food for a toddler. We’re not big foodies, so we don’t often hit expensive restaurants, anyway.

About the most daring thing I ever did was take my 2-month old with me to the movies one night. I was very slow in recovering from the emergency C-section, and I had a bad case of cabin-fever. Baby was on a weird sleep schedule, and about 8:30 pm, my husband said, “Let’s go see ___” We bundled the baby in the chest carrier, sat on the back row next to the door, ready to dart at the slightest snuffle, and saw the movie. The baby slept the entire time, all snuggled up. And I kept my sanity!

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I am not in favor of tattooing a three year old. That is far below the age of consent.
That being said, tattooing does not remove half the skin from someone’s genitals, also without their consent. I never met a man who said, “I’d like less penis, please”.
Health benefits, who are you kidding? Why did Canada, Britain, New Zealand, and Australia all stop circumcising? Because more people were damaged by botched circumcisions, or unintended side effects, like hidden penis, meatal stenosis, skin bridges, and similar problems, like death, than were helped. Name another operation where the person has healthy parts removed, and they can get sold, so the doctor makes a double profit.
It is sick to cut on a kid, period.

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Good job Jesse’s Girl @ Karma! I really hate it when bloggers are rude to Theresa.

Today I may be considered the wicked stepsister as I may be only one MOM who actually thinks being a mom on momania gives you a bit more validity than those who know a lot about kids but have never been a mother to one.

To me, this is would be like me telling nurse& mother that I have been in hospital several times and watched lots of shows about hospitals, so that I really do know so much about what is going on in the hospital…..NOT….I would never try to insinuate that I know what she knows, as that is her expertise.

I know not everyone agrees with my ideas and perhaps even the majority on this blog do not but that is the beauty of sharing here. We bounce ideas off of each other.

Here is something funny that happened to me in a meeting in Spokane. I had written feedback from teachers: 260 said I was an excellent speaker….23 said I was good and 3 said I was fair. There you have it! I DO KNOW not everyone likes me or would even have a faint interest in what I have to share!

JATL…I am sorry that you feel it necessary to venture to the malls outside of the perimeter and have to observe our silly teenagers that sport tramp stamps. I warn you not to go to Texas and shop there as the BIG HATS, BIG HAIR AND BIG BELT BUCKLES may send you over the edge.
IMHO there is life outside of the perimeter and it is not so bad….LOL. We do even have some decent shopping centers and restaurants too.

There are lots of places in the midwest that have conservative folks who do not have tatoos…unless they got them in the military. But these places also have ( heaven forbid) folks who buy their entire wardrobe at Sears or even OMG Wal Mart!

What happened to TRIVIA questions Theresa? We tried this one time and I thought it was fun. Each of us has something that could be a trivia question….I will give it a whirl:

Here is a trivia question for you….why do they not have the $1 store in Alaska? I will post the answer later ( which I did not learn inside the perimeter….LOL).

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Is it because Alaska still barters?! I’m sure it is…I got all my Alaska learning from Northern Exposure!!!!

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You’re right and they’re good questions. Circumcision is worst. The “health benefits” are spurious. Hardly anyone is circumcised in Scandinavia (or ever needs to be) and their health is at least as good as men in the US. It removes the most sensitive part of the genitals – a really fundamental attack on a person’s most intimate part. And it carries real risks of worse damage.

@FedUp: penile cancer is rarer than male breast cancer. It’s so rare it’s hard to get good figures, so even if circumcision was 100% effective, it would still take more than 1000 circumcisions to prevent even one case.

@Jesse’s girl: “medical” circumcision was introduced to PUNISH masturbation and make it more difficult and less pleasurable (on the way). It does all of that. As for your spiritual path and holy tradition, I notice you don’t have to be on the receiving end.

@uconn: There are things parents may not do to children, and cutting off parts of their bodies at whim is one of them. There is no good reason for this part to be the sole exception.

Pretty clearly tattooing is next worst and ear piercing third (because the hole will close if she doesn’t like it). But they’re all human rights violations if the person most concerned doesn’t give their informed consent.

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Tattooing your kid, piercing your kid’s ears, cutting off part of your kid’s penis are all qualitatively different. But that’s not the point. It all comes down to performing an UNNECESSARY body alteration on a child WITHOUT the child’s consent. In that way, they are all the same — a violation of human rights by parents who don’t know any better. American parents have cultural blinders that parents in other countries don’t have. All three are a form of child abuse.

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OMG! I read through about 20 comments. I can NOT believe how many people think ear piercing is WRONG but circumcision is hunky-doorey! You gotta be kidding me! Circumcision is a surgical procedure, whether you agree with it or not. Tats and ear piercing is NOT a surgery. Come one people!
I don’t believe that permanently altering a child’s body in the absence of disease should ever be allowed or tolerated by any compassionate or educated country such as the US. Circumcision is at best, removing healthy tissue in hopes of *maybe* avoiding a very slight risk of an infection that could be treated with medication. Just like removing my child’s outer ears and nose would for certain removed the risk of skin cancer on those areas. However, it’s not tolerated here. Ear piercing, while certainly not as bad as foot binding or female circumcision, is a culturally accepted way to “beautify” a child. However, that too is a permanent change to a non-consenting child’s body.
The US accepts piercing of the ears as acceptable but if I dare take my kid to have her nipples or belly button pierced, I’d be thrown in jail for sure!
Tattoos aren’t culturally acceptable for minors – yet! But when we get down to it, is it any different than piercing or circumcision? No. So yes, there is a double standard.
Again, children should be able to consent to ANY *permanent* changes made to their body *in absence of disease* when they are 18. This shouldn’t be done by parents (keep in mind clipping nails, surgery for a ruptured appendix, or hair cutting does NOT fall in this category, as these are either temporary changes or changes in the presence of temporary body parts – eyebrow waxing would fall in this category, although I don’t know why any parent would do that to a child).

And the person who suggested tattooing a barcode on a kid at birth is a very scary individual. I hope he was kidding.

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I’m sorry Karma….did you say something?

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Having been a mother for 22 years ( next week) and also living in the south for 20 ( next month) it may be futile to prove my point on MOMania with non mothers not from the south. I KNOW I am not from the south but I also know I have the hardest time trying to prove a point with non southerners… when they know I am from Atlanta. If they finally hire me, they say WOW you are so much fun and we learned so much BUT many will not hire me as they do not think southerners could know anything. Too bad.

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Seriously MJG -you need to learn to read things you’re commenting on completely. I SAID I’VE LIVED OUTSIDE THE PERIMETER -grew up there even (waaaayyyy outside the Perimeter) -FOR CHRISSAKES! As an adult I spent 4 years too many in Kennesaw and Marietta. I would also compare my travel experience to yours any day -and that’s with all of your speaking arrangements. I know quite a bit about life outside the perimeter and I’m quite adventurous. It’s good that your job involves speaking because you certainly don’t listen very well.

As I said before -I enjoy differences and being different, and for the record I LOVE Texas! My point about the teenagers in malls is that tattoos are extremely commonplace everywhere now.

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Did you mean me? If so, you are mistaken. I’m from rural Georgia and have the accent to prove it :).

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Cmon, people, let’s have a little bit of logic here.. NONE of these have ANY proven benefit–just a lot of risks. But circumcision is the only one that removes the majority of the nerves of the body part involved–and carries the risk of penile amputation and even death. death.
Culture and superstitious beliefs justify none of these on any infant or child.

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Tattooing seems to me to be worse than ear piercing, although, of course, it is a matter of degree. A small tattoo on a hidden part of the body is not nearly as harmful as a large one that is always in view. However, a small tattoo certainly is no worse than the permanent damage and deformity caused by circumcision. I think all three are impermissible when performed on an infant or a child. No parent has a right to consent to the cosmetic modification of a child’s normal, non-deformed body. All of these procedures can be consented to by the child when the child reaches the age of majority.

The comments by most folks here about circumcision reveal a lack of knowledge of the history of that unnecessary operation, its risks, and the protective and sexual functions of the foreskin. It is regrettable that this ignorance is shared by much of the medical profession. Indeed, since most presently practicing male American physicians are circumcised, they have little personal knowledge of normal male anatomy.

Non-religious circumcision began in the U.S. in the late 19th century in a failed attempt to prevent masturbation, which was believed to be harmful to boys and adolescents. It eventually was posited to cure or prevent a wide variety of diseases from hip displasia to tuberculosis to insanity!! By 1971 all of the “reasons” for circumcision had been debunked and a committee of the American Academy of Pediatrics stated that there was no medical reason for neonatal circumcision. Since then there has been something of a pro-circ reaction by certain doctors and the AAP has modified its stance to recognize “potential” benefits. But none of these “potential” benefits outweigh the very real risks of the operation.

The fact is that many, many babies are negligently damaged by circumcision each year, not only elsewhere, but also here in Atlanta. I am a trial lawyer. I just concluded a trial in Fulton State Court for a child who lost a large portion of his glans penis in a botched circumcision at birth. The jury awarded 2.3 million. In 1985 two boys lost their penises in botched circumcisions at Northside Hospital (I was not involved in those cases). However, I have been involved in numerous other botched circumcision cases here in Georgia as well as throughout the country. Circumcision carries real risks, which are rarely conveyed to the parents beforehand.

The cleanliness myth is easily dispelled by the realization that women have to rinse their vulvas just like adult men need to rinse their penises – circumcised or not. A woman’s clitoral prepuce or foreskin is the anatomical analog of the male foreskin. We don’t circumcise women for “cleanliness” and we don’t need to circumcise boys for it either. Virtually any disease that circumcision supposedly reduces in incidence (it doesn’t “prevent” anything, including STD’s and AIDS) can be avoided by monogamy or safe sexual practices and basic cleanliness. It is a fact that the U.S. currently has the highest percentage of circumcised sexually active males in the industrialized world outside of Israel (in fact we are the only country to circumcise a majority of its newborn boys for non-religious reasons) and the highest rates of HIV/AIDS and STD’s in the industrialized world. The circumcision rates in the last two generations of U.S. men (1945-1980) have been between 80% and 95% yet the HIV/AIDS and STD rates have increased exponentially during those generations’ lives. So much for the “protective” function of circumcision that those in favor of it erroneously allege. Most of the rest of the world outside the Muslim countries, Israel, and the Philippines, does not circumcise neonates and their men get along just fine. Moreover, any foreskin “problems” can be medically treated without surgery in most cases, although surgery is often mistakenly recommended. In short, there is no legitimate medical reason for circumcision of newborn boys and there are very few legitimate medical reasons for it in youth and adulthood.

There is a wealth of accurate information on the internet in regard to the foreskin, the normal development of the male penis, the sexual function of the foreskin, and the damage caused by circumcision, whether botched or not. It is often hard for circumcised Americans to view with equanimity. I suggest that those interested go to http://www.cirp.org, http://www.intactamerica.org, http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org, http://www.nocirc.org, http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org, http://www.circumcisionandhiv.com, http://www.circumstitions.com, http://www.sexasnatureintendedit.com (very sexually graphic), http://www.foreskin.org, http://www.intact.ca, and like sites if they want the hard, cold truth. A good discussion for prospective and new parents can be found at http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=44. The video of an actual GOMCO circumcision at http://www.intact.ca usually convinces parents that circumcision is a bad idea.

By the way, circumcision rates have been dropping for decades. Currently only about 56% of newborn U.S. boys are being circumcised. The rates vary by region. In the West a circumcised newborn is now in the minority. Anecdotal evidence suggests that here in the Atlanta area about 25% of newborn boys are being left intact. Parents need not fear that their son will be ridiculed for having the body with which he was born.

In short, in regard to all these decisions the motto should be: His/Her Body! His/Her Decision!

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Hey there “Obama hates Cheney’s bald head the most”, (comment 4 and 5), are you saying that my uncircumcised penis looks odd? Since when did natural become odd?

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I agree! Circumcision, tattooing and ear piercing on males or females are all unnecessary body modifications that shouldn’t be done on infants! They are done for the gratification of the parents…it is disgusting how some parents treat their children like objects to have stuff done to just so they look cute.

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How can you compare the oldest surgical procedure known to civilized man and tattooing? You are clearly either anti-circumcision or one of the anti-circumcision groups paid you off to do this ridiculous analogy, I dont know what benefits tattooing has but circumcision has a lot of benefits, including no cancer of the penis, less transmission of stds, hpv and hiv. less urinary tract infections, no phimosis, paraphimosis or balanits, and fyi most american women prefer their men circumcised. The circumcision rate in the US is around 75-90 percent depending on the area of the country and rightfully so. jewish women have the lowest cervical cancer rate in the world because jewish men are 99 percent circumcised. Why dont you compare Vikings and Beekeepers to see who is worse.

Here are some great sites to find out more beneficial information about circumcision:

http://www.aboutcirc.com/
http://www.medicirc.org/
http://www.circumcisioninfo.com/index_home_new.html
http://www.circinfo.net/
http://www.circinfo.com/
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/2754/wiswell.html
http://men.webmd.com/guide/circumcision-decision-weighing-risks-benefits?page=1

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“Plus there’s something very cute about seeing that bare, permanently exposed knob. It looks so vulnerable, which is very attractive compared to a covered turtleneck. My vote is for all men to be circumcised within the first few days of birth.”

Gee, can we find a more pathetic excuse to chop off the most sensitive part of a male’s genitals…scars are so cute and attractive?

African men find circumcised female genitals more attractive.. seems like a great similarity here.. stupid, ignorant American women and stupid, ignorant African men.

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[...] pretty interesting questions raised in ‘is tattooing a child worse than piercing ears, circumcision?’ (make sure to check the comments posted by readers!) and ‘should tattooing animals be [...]

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I was going to post a mean version of that “Circumcision helps males of all ages keep clean and healthy.” –changing male to female. It shows how outrageous the statement ATW is making. ATW and probably Nybili have never had the main male pleasure zones. What do they know? The pleasure zones taken by male circumcision are real. The male pleasure zones taken are really quite nice for the owner. They involve touch and stretch nerve endings — more than the clitoris. ATW, how about you get to kleep your clitoris but they cut off your labia and clitorial hood? It will be cleaner.

An interesting non-repoted issue was pointed out by an anti circ DR I know. Male circumcison so hurts male pleasure that circed guys often prefer oral sex to natual vaginal sex. The DR opined that this has led to massive herpes problems in the USA as oral passes herpes and the male circ scar is especially prone to herpes infection. YIKES the mutilated US is a herpes spreading machine!

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People piece the ears of their ugly girls without much hair so people will stop saying “what a cute boy”. Is it ‘trashy-looking’? Well of course it is. If you see a child with their ears pierced, askif their parents make more than $30k a year combined, the answer will be “no”.

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To clarify, I was referring to non-medical alteration. And for the record, I grew up in Atlanta, inside and outside the perimeter.

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Speaking as a professional body piercer, I would never pierce a child’s ears unless that child came up to me, and could articulate the desire to have their ears pierced, and they fully understood that it was indeed going to hurt. How would you feel, as a fully grown adult, if someone held you down while someone rammed some jewelry through your ears?

A word to the wise from BMEzine.com:

“A piercing gun, traditionally used by mall stores for piercing ears, is typically inappropriate for piercing of any kind. Almost all medical professionals agree that piercing guns cannot be adequately sterilized (an alcohol wipe is NOT sterilization); this means that they are capable of passing hepatitis and other diseases.

In addition, experience has taught the industry that:

Ear piercing studs are dull and tear through the body, causing unnecessary pain, healing duration, and other possible complications.
Ear piercing guns are inaccurate and not designed for piercing most body parts, resulting in improper piercing placement.
Ear piercing studs are the wrong size and too short for most piercings. The small gauge (generally 20g) and short length are not optimal for healing.
Any “piercer” using a piercing gun should be avoided. ”

I feel the same negative feelings toward circumcision. Now, speaking as a parent, before we knew the sex of our child, my partner and I had made the decision NOT to circumcisem should our baby be a boy. While I understand circumcizing for religious or MEDICALLY NECESSARY reasons, I still don’t agree with performing what most doctors will tell you is a completely unneccessary procedure. Why take away someone’s choice in the matter? When they are old enough, they can CHOOSE to have their foreskin removed so that they, “Look like Daddy and other boys.”

Again, from BMEzine.com:

“To circumcise something literally means “to cut around.” This almost always refers to the removal or cutting of the male foreskin, although less commonly it refers to female circumcision, which is either the removal of the clitoral hood or hood splitting. It is also applied mistakenly to female genital mutilation, which can refer to the removal of the clitoris itself, or the occlusion of the vagina.”

Now, this may be shocking. However, if you’re willing to cut off a piece of your infant son’s genitalia, would you be willing to cut off a piece of your infant daughter’s?

there’s some food for thought…

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Did you know that in cultures that “circumcise” girls they do it for tradition, to look like mommy, to keep it cleaner, because a husband won’t marry a girl who is not “circumcised.” In the US we call this female genital mutilation and banned it in 1996. However, we feel it is perfectly acceptable to “circumcise” baby boys so they will follow tradition, look like daddy, keep clean, and because girls won’t have sex with a boy that has all the foreskin he was born with. Does anyone see any similarities between this? http://www.circumstitions.com/FGMvsMGM.html
Have you ever thought that the euphemism for circumcision might be “male genital mutilation”? Amputation of a functional body part?

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Okay…all of you people are wack!! No one should be tattooing their babies-that is just wrong. Pierced ears, c’mon what is wrong with that? They close up and they’re gonna get them done anyway, and to who said it was white trash…you are white trash my dear-pure ignorance with a bufont and aquanet okay. As for circumcision, it should not even be in this field…it is a medical procedure not a cosmetic addition. There are a slew of men who will tell you they are uncircumsized and that you should have your babies cirumsized.

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Circumcision prevents vulvar cancer. Removing the useless clitoral hood and redundant labia improves hygiene. An uncircumcised vulva looks weird and smells atrocious with its foul smegma. It’s a parental right to circumcise your son or daughter. There’s no medical study proving that uncircumcised women have better sexual sensation, and if it were really harmful it would have died out centuries ago: it’s *women* who do the cutting, so they would know.

Labiaplasty – read circumcision – is now the third most common cosmetic surgery chosen by women in the U.S. Why not do it in the neonatal period when the pain won’t be remembered? Sex is better, men like it, and it’s the healthy thing to do.

HOwever, if you tattoo your child, well, you should be thrown in prison. There’s no right to tattoo a non-consenting minor.

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hi im 11 and want to get a piercing in my left ear. but my mom and dad wont let me. there are guys in my school that are 8 and 9 and have ears pierced. so its ok for them but not me. its not fair.

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for all the well trained & hearded sheep who responded to this article in serverely uneducated and presumptuous ways…there is ABSOLUTELY NOOOO health benefit to circumsission…it merely allows mothers 2 b lazier about cleaning their sons & men 2 b lazier about cleaning their penis. & if someones ears are pierced @ a young age the holes do not close…they are permenant!!!! its about choice. boys should be allowed to choose if they want their foreskin…& everyone should be able to decide on their own if they want earrings or tattos…their parents should not decide for them!!!

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