Is tattooing a child worse than piercing ears, circumcision?
A Floyd County man has been charged with child cruelty after authorities say he tattooed his 3-year-old son.
Floyd County Police Sgt. Teri Davis said Eugene Ashley, 24, tattooed the back of his son’s right shoulder with “DB,” which stands for “Daddy’s Boy,” sometime this spring. The man told police he was intoxicated at the time, Davis said.
The children remain with their mother; Eugene Ashley was arrested May 21 and faces charges of child cruelty and tattooing a person younger than 18 years old, the latter being a misdemeanor, Davis said.
Now granted nobody wants an allegedly drunk, non-professional tattoo artist working on them, but I wonder … is tattooing a child worse than piercing a baby’s ears or circumcising a newborn boy?
I get that there’s a law about not tattooing someone under 18, but why is that more worthy of a law than the other two? Is it simply because the other two are done more frequently so they have become socially acceptable?
Does it have to do with the possible transmission of diseases? All involve blood and cutting into the skin – although circumcisions are done by surgeons as opposed to ladies at the mall.
Does it have to do with the permanence of the procedures? Piercings (at least in ears) can close back up, but circumcision can hardly be reversed. I have heard of a method of stretching the foreskin back over the head of the penis using weights but that doesn’t sound easy. Laser surgery to remove tattoos seems preferable to trying to “re-grow” your foreskin.
Are tattoos more painful than piercing or circumcision? Not sure that’s true.
I’m not promoting tattoos for toddler and babies, I’m just wondering if there is a double standard of what is acceptable to do to a child?
What do you think? Are tattoos worse than piercing or circumcising a child? If so, why? Also, where does waxing your kids’ eyebrow land on this scale?
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137 comments Add your comment
DawgGal
May 28th, 2009
8:12 am
You have lost it!
Matthew
May 28th, 2009
8:15 am
Seriously…do you have nothing better to write about today?
Photius
May 28th, 2009
8:17 am
I must be laundry day for Theresa…….
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Obama hates Cheney's bald head the most
May 28th, 2009
8:18 am
Wow, trying to stoke some fires and save your job at the AJC with crap like this? Why not talk about Mike Vick too?
TATOO= PERMANENT AND ARTISTIC EXPRESSION
PIERCED EARS= GHETTO TRASH
CIRCUMCISION= HEALTH BENEFITS, and doesn’t give your son a odd looking member.
Obama hates Cheney's bald head the most
May 28th, 2009
8:19 am
That is, for children not adults.
Name (required)
May 28th, 2009
8:21 am
It’s about the same as piercing the ears. I don’t know why so many self-absorbed parents feel the need to pierce an infants ears. What a bunch of idiots. If the kid wants it when they’re old enough to decide, go for it…but to force it upon them is cruel and barbaric.
Oh, and a “Daddy’s Boy” tattoo? That’s gonna lead to a load of ass-kickings at school and go over GREAT when that kid ends up in prison.
Donna Outlaw
May 28th, 2009
8:25 am
My granddaughter got her ears pierced at 9 months old and she didn’t cry. How can you compare THAT to a tattoo. You people are nuts! lol
Ricecakes
May 28th, 2009
8:27 am
Of course tattooing is worse than piercing ears. Tattoos are a permanent mark; however, ear piercings can close and never have to be used again. Circumcising (which I had performed on my son)I feel is the best decision you can ever make for your child. Less germs, easier to clean your private area instead of having to pull skin back, etc. Also, if my child had some crazy bushy eyebrows he/she would just have to live with it until they have atleast reach their mid teen years(15 or 16).
Stephanie
May 28th, 2009
8:28 am
I never understood ear piercing on infants. It looks SO white trash. You might as well tattoo “white trash” on their forehead, beacuse when you pierce a childs ears, it sends the same message. To quote Mammy from Gone With the Wind, “It just ain’t fittin’!”
Denise
May 28th, 2009
8:29 am
Really? I’m honestly at a loss for words.
Reluctant
May 28th, 2009
8:29 am
I think comparing pierced ears to tattoos is going a little bit too far. I refused to have my daughters’ ears pierced when they were little, but I don’t think it’s a horrible practice and it’s not permanent. I’m totally against circumcision (”Obama hates Cheney’s…” there are no health benefits to circumcision – do the research), but I don’t think most parents do it because they think its cool or whatever; they do it because they think they are doing the right thing. Routine circumcision is ignorance, but tattooing is a child is child abuse.
motherjanegoose
May 28th, 2009
8:30 am
I have never been a fan of piercing a child’s ears when they do not have a choice ( our daughter had hers done at 9 I think) but at least it can grow back.
Circumcision is usually done for religious or health reasons, I think that is too in a different category. I am not a tattoo fan ( just my opinion) and chuckled last week when one reader shared that it is becoming a very popular thing to do “inside the perimeter” . What if you move AWAY from the perimeter …will everyone else simply know that this is the norm here or would they raise their eyebrows?
Kind of like in Arkansas they wear ball caps inside to eat at restaurants with overalls and farm boots…I am not sure this would fly at a chi chi restaurant in Buckhead, or at least it would get a few looks.
I try to look at the bigger picture, since I am all over the US map and see things elsewhere that I had no idea about, here in metro Atlanta.
Not trying to hijack but we saw a trendy couple walk into Chops in Naples FL at 9:30 p.m. with a baby in a stroller. FOLKS…babies need to be in bed at this hour and if you can afford CHOPS you can afford a babysitter….the other diners do not want to hear your precious interrupting their $$$ dinner.
Becky
May 28th, 2009
8:33 am
If y’all don’t like what Theresa gets paid to write about, don’t read it..She is doing her job and that is to get people to dicuss things..
gadyke
May 28th, 2009
8:36 am
I want to preface this by saying that I am a bit of an ink addict (although without the funds to get as much as I’d like). My ears were pierced when I was 6 by my request. If I were to have changed my mind, they could have closed up and it would have been over with. I do agree with the health benefits of circumcision, although I know a few guys from South America that swear by the “natural” look. Tattooing is definitely something that should not be done until one is an adult and fully capable of making that decision for themselves. Had I gotten half the tattoos I thought I wanted when I was a preteen or teen, I’d have everything from NKOTB to kittens tatted on me. Children can’t make that decision and parents should know better. There was another story out of California where a father and his gang buddy held down his 7 yr old son and tattooed the gang symbol on his hip. It’s a scary world out there sometimes.
Clay
May 28th, 2009
8:38 am
It’s not the same thing. Earring holes can close–tattoos are permanent. I’m not even going to discuss circumcision…
Theresa Walsh Giarrusso
May 28th, 2009
8:39 am
Thank you Reluctant!
MJG — My husband goes nuts when guys wear ball caps into restaurants — huge pet peeve of his. As far as babies in restaurants late at night, we just back from Disney and there were sooo many kids up past their bed times — including our own! Some cranky kids in that place — But more on Disney in the next few days!!!
And I believe a POP QUIZ for tomorrow on Traveling Dilemmas for Disney —- Tune it for photos and fun!!
bufordmomof4
May 28th, 2009
8:40 am
Wow…really? Yeah, that’s really comparing apples to apples. NOT!
clyde
May 28th, 2009
8:43 am
No tattoos or body piercings on children.Circumcisions are beneficial ,health wise.
Deb
May 28th, 2009
8:46 am
Piercing a childs ears is tradition in many countries.
Herd89
May 28th, 2009
8:48 am
Can’t add anything new, but like most, piercing is VERY different from tattooing. Ask anyone with a tattoo about the pain and how long the procedure lasted. Also, babies and small children do not need pierced ears. Why do some parents feel the need to “decorate” their babies?
Stephanie
May 28th, 2009
8:50 am
Yes, I realize it is a tradition in some countries, but it doesn’t make it look any less tacky here in the U.S.
TwinMom
May 28th, 2009
8:51 am
I agree that circumcision is irrelevant to this tattoo/piercing debate. I understand the culture is shifting away from circumcision recently, but most parents who choose to circumcise are not doing it for cosmetic reasons (like tattoos or piercings) but rather for health or religious reasons.
However, I also completely disagree with infant ear piercing. Whether or not the baby cries, everyone who has had ears pierced knows there is pain involved for a time. It needs to be the child’s decision when they are old enough to understand what they are doing and have a part in the cleaning and upkeep. I’ve never understood the cuteness or appeal of earrings on a baby. That’s what clothes, hats, and hairbows are for!
Mark Williams
May 28th, 2009
8:52 am
I don’t considering tattoos and piercings in the same catagory as male circumcision. Remember that female cicumcision is illegal in many states. However they are all CHOICES that should be left up to the individual when he is old enough to decide for himself.
I am circumcised and wish my parents had left my penis alone. I do feel violated that choices were made without my concent. The
“health” benefits are argueable. It could even be argued that it is a way for woman to exact power over males. As far as being odd, the majority of the world does not practice circumcision so it is the Americans who are odd.
That’s my two cents worth.
motherjanegoose
May 28th, 2009
8:53 am
Thanks Becky…I have been trying to tell the complainers this forever…they are too stupid to figure it out. NO ONE can share ideas every day that are fascinating to EVERYONE…get it folks? Even talk show hosts on TV have a bit of help and I doubt Theresa has an assistant who she runs her columns by…but maybe so. Some do not appeal to me but so what.
Theresa…I MAY tolerate children in restaurants at Disney but Chops is not in the same league.
My sister and I stopped at Naples Fl. Chili’s last summer around 9:00 p.m.o on a Sunday night. We had a late flight to Florida.
There was a couple in the booth across from us tossing back margaritas with an infant and a 4 year old who were crying and whining, as they were tired. I shuddered and worried for those kids.
Skip a couple of drinks and leave them HOME!
David
May 28th, 2009
8:55 am
While I don’t think ear piercing is nearly as painful as tattooing, and it’s certainly not permanent, I agree that it should not be performed on a child who cannot consent to it. And to those of you all uppity about circumcision, why has female circumcision been banned in GA? Male circumcision has no proven health benefits. However, a botched circumcision cannot be fixed. I would much rather have had a stupid tattoo given to me as a child than to have part of my body taken from me.
Theresa, I think you have part of your answer, since some of your readers think the idea of comparing this incident to ear piercing or circumcision to be absurd. Obviously we have been condition to believe it is normal to mutilate an infant’s penis or ears when they are unable to give consent.
HB
May 28th, 2009
8:56 am
Tattoos are definitely worse, but I hate seeing babies with pierced ears. Possible source of pain and infection often done so that darling princess isn’t mistaken for a boy at 6 months old — stupid!
MJG did hit on a pet peeve of mine, though. “9:30 p.m. with a baby in a stroller. FOLKS…babies need to be in bed at this hour…” Why? Seriously, give me one good reason why babies need to be in bed early. They have somewhere to be in the morning? Little babies are up every few hours anyway, so what difference does it make? Once they start sleeping through the night, why go to bed early? I have friends who are a young couple with one child. They both work, and often the whole family isn’t together at the end of the day until 7. They didn’t put their baby to bed until 10-10:30 when he was under a year and sleeping 8-9 hours through the night. That gave them more time to spend with him in the evening and the option of not having to rush home to keep to baby’s early schedule. It also made morning’s easier because he didn’t wake up until around 7 (they loved not having baby wake them up at 5!), so they got up a little earlier and were showered and fully awake before he needed them. But of course, they got ugly looks and comments about how it was too late for a baby to be out if they were out with him at 9-9:30. Why are people such busy-bodies? The child was healthy and happy and it’s nobody’s business but theirs what the family schedule is!
motherjanegoose
May 28th, 2009
8:59 am
Stephanie…your comment is EXACTLY what I was thinking when the “inside the perimeter” mom shared that tatoos are THE thing now. Those who live elsewhere may not see it the same way
( heaven forbid she has to relocate to Iowa or Nebraska) but perhaps she KNOWS that she will always live INSIDE THE PERIMETER….LOL. Kind of like saying, “we eat grits in Georgia, thus anyone else should know better than to serve *** cream of wheat***…” LOL. Do southerners even know what it is or how about Farina?
The Voice
May 28th, 2009
9:02 am
IMHO none of this is as bad for children as mothers that insist on taking 2 and 3 year old children and entering them in “beauty” pageants. Dressing them up and applying make up and making them look like little hookers. If you have ever been to one of these things you will find that the ones who really want to win are the mothers, not the kids. The kids could care less. Usually the kids are back stage either playing with other kids or crying that they want to go home. I was employed as a paramedic to stand by at one of these events and while I was backstage I saw one mother (and I use the term loosely) slap a little 4 year old girl in the face because she didn’t want to go on stage. I quickly informed this moron that if I saw anything like that again I personally would have her arrested for child abuse. They need to shut those things down…all they are doing seems to me is teach young girls that they can get whatever they want by flaunting their bodies. Amen
The Voice
May 28th, 2009
9:04 am
PS TWG write about anything you want to…it is your blog and if other folks don’t like the subject we all hate if for them…let them go start their own blog.
M
May 28th, 2009
9:10 am
I am not a fan of tattoos, but if you like them, then go for it if you are of age. However, tattoos for a baby is ludicrous and illegal. This is the first time I have heard so many negative comments about ear piercings for little girls. I do not live “inside the perimeter” and do not think it is “white or ghetto trash” as stated in earlier posts. I had my ears pierced as an infant and pierced my daughter’s ears. She only wore little stud earrings until her teen years. I know a guy who wasn’t circumcised as a child and had the procedure as an adult. I understand it was a very unpleasant couple of weeks afterwards. Not only did he do it for the cleanliness factor, but not being circumcised affected his social life as women were grossed out by the appearance of an uncircumcised member.
motherjanegoose
May 28th, 2009
9:11 am
HB….if I am paying to eat at CHOPS, I do not want to hear a baby. If you want to keep your baby up at home….this is your business. I am a busy body when it is affecting me…just a little courtesy folks. I am also a busy body when my neighbors are having a party at midnight in their back yard with loud speakers at midnight and the noise ordinance is 11:00 p.m. This has happened SEVERAL times and we will be calling the police as instructed by our association. If you live in the country…have at it!
When my nephew ( 24 now) was a baby, we ate at PERKINS and he was teething, so he was crying. My brother in law took him outside while we finished our LUNCH, as a courtesy to other diners.
In the rare example that a child under 4 has the manners to sit and eat at Chops at 9:30 p.m., I want to meet this child and congratulate the parents.
. 8-9 hours night sleep is NOT the recommended amount for children under 5. It is more like 11…so that means they would let him sleep until 9:00…ask a teacher…we have seen our share of cranky children. I had a little girl last week falling asleep during my visit at her school. Over 75 other kids were jumping around and and having a blast, She could barely put her arms up in the air. I thought she was sick and spoke with the teacher. The teacher told me that she is always tired and goes to bed late every night….HELLO parents?
Jesse's Girl
May 28th, 2009
9:11 am
Getting a tat involves a prolonged event for anyone… tiny needles poking at your skin…..to say nothing of getting one with actual color! It hurts most adults….for some it is merely uncomfy. But for children….I can’t imagine how bad it must feel. They experience everything to a greater degree than adults! While I think it is silly to pierce an infant’s ears….it is a very quick event for them. If you tatoo your kid….YOU ARE TRASHY and you have an ill regard for your child’s body. We don’t live in tribes here people….tatoos are not a part of our daily lives denoting our station in life. Its for decoration……don’t decorate your kid.
motherjanegoose
May 28th, 2009
9:14 am
M….my “inside the perimeter” applies to someone who commented about tattoos.
hedtil
May 28th, 2009
9:17 am
In quite a few countries around the world, infants are tattood early on. In W.Africa, babies have facial scarring done (not painful, just involves scratching the skin with some coal-dust like stuff that causes a permanent mark on the skin), ear piercings, nose piercings, etc. Girls also have permanent tattooing under their eyes (like permanent eyeliner – it’s gorgeous). In all of these places, the purpose is to benefit the child socially. It marks him or her as belonging to a certain social group, it makes him or her more appealing to others. It is socially accepted as beautiful and proper.
I think the difference with this “DB” tattoo is that would seem to benefit the father who did it – it seems like it was a selfish and childish act. There was no conceivable benefit to the child to whom it was done, and it isn’t socially acceptable by the community in which the child lives. Therein lies the problem.
In this country, parents who pierce the ears of their infant children do so because they believe it makes them cuter, more beautiful, whatever. It is socially acceptable, whether or not everyone partakes. Male circumcision is also acceptable and is an action to benefit the child, either for health reasons, or to make the child a part of a religious or social group and increase their acceptance desirability to that group.
When it comes down to it, the pain of a tattoo or circumcision or piercing is short lived and forgotten by a child. What lives on is the permanent change that some trusted adult made to the child. If that change was to benefit the child, was done out of love, does not constitute a health risk to the child (I’m thinking female circumcision here), and is socially acceptable and desirable in the child’s social network, then I don’t see a problem. But I don’t think the ‘DB’ tattoo fits into this. Really, it comes down to the difference between good parents, who think through benefit vs. harm to their children when making permanent decisions on their behalf, and not-so-good parents, who act on a whim or only think about what will make themselves happy at the moment…
Denise
May 28th, 2009
9:19 am
Personally, I love seeing little girls with cute little studs in their ears. The issue of consent has never entered my mind until I started reading this blog. I understand the point but there are so many things that parents do to children that are not discussed much less giving the children a choice. Some are harmful, some are not. I personally hate to see little girls with dreadlocks because if they decide they don’t want the style anymore, they have to basically shave their heads to start over. THAT can traumatizing for a little girl, much more so than earrings.
As for tattoos, I think there is a reason for having the “over 18″ rule in place. I think it helps curb the sontaneous “let’s go get a volleyball tattoed on our butts” or “let’s go get an A with a halo around it like the California Angels on our stomachs” (my own stupid idea because I’m called Angel”, or “let’s get our high school mascot tattooed on our arms”. My brother got the worst looking baseball bat on his shoulder; he was over 18 but still stupid. LOL! Tattoos are permanent for the most part (you can get them ablated off but that has to hurt) and I think it is no better than branding a cow to show ownership. “Daddy’s Boy”? Terrible! What if the child doesn’t like his daddy when he grows up? Imagine what kind of whippings he will get for some foolishness like that. Tacky, tacky, tacky.
sd
May 28th, 2009
9:19 am
I think that all three things are a bad idea to do to babies and wouldn’t pierce, tatoo, or circumsize my son.
However, I am not judgemental about that. If others want to do that to their children, who am I to judge?
In some tribal cultures, ritual tatooing is seen as normal. However, cutting off part of your childs penis is seen as barbaric.
So if some tribe tatoos their child in South America, why can’t rednecks do the same. It allows others to be able to see the child and know he belongs to the tribe/rednecks.
itamazesme
May 28th, 2009
9:21 am
I rather enjoyed your article because people don’t think that ear piercing is painful. Although a tatto is to the extreme. Even with the ears – it is piercing. Also, ear piercings do NOT close after a certain length of time.
What gets me is that under 18 to get a tatto is illegal, however you can be 16 and get a piercing. Although I will not let my child get a tattoo under the age of 18 – why is it though if she wanted she can go to a gynecologist, have an examination and be prescribed the pill and she doesn’t have to tell me anything? Laws and rules – go figure!!!
motherjanegoose
May 28th, 2009
9:29 am
sleep…check it out:
http://www.oh-pin.org/articles/pex-03-good-sleep-and-bedtime-ha.pdf
DB
May 28th, 2009
9:30 am
When I worked in a jewelry store in high school/college, I did ear piercings, but I absolutely refused to do a piercing on anyone who was too young to tell me themselves that they wanted a piercing. I got some very angry parents, but I just shrugged and said, “Here’s the piercing gun — YOU do it, if you feel that strongly about it,” and not a single parent ever did. The crying disturbed me too much and made me unsteady — and yes, most DID scream and cry (sometimes my manager would do them, instead.) You would not believe the number of people who would bring their baby to a mall jewelry store instead of to a doctor for a piercing!! Gagggh! It was even more ironic, because at 20, I didn’t have pierced ears. I didn’t until I was 25, and I ended up letting them close back up, because they kept getting infected and I couldn’t overcome the metal sensitivity, no matter what kind of metal I’d try. My daughter got her ears pierced for her 13th birthday — over the objections of my husband, who can’t stand piercing of any kind, and kept muttering under his breath about piercings being barbaric and stemming from “stupid female fertility rites . . .”
Tattoos — nope. What the father did was child abuse. Your body is your own canvas, to do with as you please. Your child’s body is NOT your canvas. The only thing I can think is that maybe the dad had several tattoos and the little boy wanted one “like Daddy,” and the father just wasn’t thinking. Most child abuse is the result of just not thinking, not overt violence.
Circumcision — too many cultural and religious reasons to say yes or no on this. I have my own belief, but in deference to my son’s privacy, I am not going to discuss it here.
MJG – Another restaurant pet peeve: People on cell phones! I was eating at a restaurant last night with my daughter and the lady at the next table was talking on the cell phone for 15 minutes — loudly — and discussing bowel obstructions and colostomies!!! Completely ruined dinner for us, her husband looked like he wished he was anywhere else but . . .
karl
May 28th, 2009
9:31 am
ear piercing can grow back, circumcision is done for cleanliness, tattoo is a stigma that the child would have to endure thru school–unless painfully removed especiallly amature tattoo
i love tattoos but let child decide when older
karl
May 28th, 2009
9:32 am
circumcision is a cleanliness thing
Just an Idea
May 28th, 2009
9:37 am
I always thought that an ID number tattooed on a babies behind at the hospital would be a great way to identify them if they ever got kidnapped. Small and covered by clothes but every ones in the same spot.
Get Back
May 28th, 2009
9:38 am
Another argument against piercing infants’ ears: the vast, vast majority of these are done with piercing guns (those are what give you the “studs” in lieu of earrings). Guns cannot be cleaned thoroughly and if you’re taking your baby to Claire’s or the Piercing Pagoda down at the mall, most of the time you yourself have as much training as the person manning the gun.
What are the benefits to piercing infants’ ears, anyway? There’s no social stigma against unpierced girls’ ears. It’s just a risky procedure done for the parent’s aesthetic benefit alone.
Conventional Wisdom
May 28th, 2009
9:41 am
I think the use of the word “Consent” when tlking about kids is a load of crock. There are lots of things that children don’t “Consent” to that are for their benefit like going to the dentist/doctor, attending school or even bathing everyday. Although I don’t think tattoos should be given to kids, I also don’t think its anyone’s business when or why you choose to pierce your daughters ears or get your son circumcised. And to the men saying that they feel violated, give me a break, You wouldn’t have known that you were snipped unlessed someone told you.
Reign
May 28th, 2009
9:46 am
Tattoos are personal artwork, statements and permanent, so NO, you should not tattoo your child. That’s a decision he/she should make for themselves as an adult.
Piercings, well, I did get my little girl’s ears pierced when she was young, can’t remember how old, but she may have been a baby. She’s 25 now and has a daughter and I don’t want her to pierce my granddaughter’s ears. Mainly because I saw it being done to a little baby in the mall and the piercing gun got stuck in her little ears and it was horrific to watch the young parents try to keep the baby calm while the piercer try to stay calm and remove the piercing gun. Everyone that passed by were mortified! So I see things differently now. My daughter never had an issue, thank goodness, but I don’t want it done to my granddaughter until she’s much older and my daughter and son in law agree…whew.
Circumcision – I had both of my boys circumcised at birth because I thought it was the law or something. Their father wasn’t circumcised and the “thing” looked gross to me. I hope my children don’t have sons because I don’t know where I stand on this one…
Often Disappointed/Never Surprised!
May 28th, 2009
9:47 am
Are you seriously comparing tattoos to circumcision? Need I say more? Thought not, I rest my case.
JJ
May 28th, 2009
9:47 am
With regards to babies in restaurants after 9:30……don’t be so quick to judge. Maybe the parents work nights? Maybe they sleep during the day and want to go out at 9:00. Not everyone has a 9-5 job…….maybe they were vacationing…….you really shouldn’t judge, as you don’t know their situation. And unless there’s a sign that says no one under a certain age limit, you are pretty much free to go to a restaurant of your choice. People without children will be the first to pitch a fit about kids in a restaurant……as far as I know, this is still a free country, and I will eat where I want, when I want, etc. IF you have a problem with that, its YOUR problem, not mine……
motherjanegoose
May 28th, 2009
9:49 am
thanks DB…I am with you on cell phones too! My husband goes nuts with it!
While we do not ALWAYS agree, I find your comments quite sensible and thought provoking. Question…did you take your toddlers out to eat a 9:30 p.m….or were they in bed…just wondering! I am guessing that you would not take 4 children to join you at CHOPS or maybe so….LOL>
Photius…we have almost met the level of comments for a full day yesterday and it is not even 10:00 a.m. Must NOT be laundry day for ANYONE….LOL!
FedUp
May 28th, 2009
9:49 am
How do you put circumcision in the same category as piercing/tattooing? You are comparing apples and oranges. I had my son circumcised, and he is glad I did. I have asked him (he is now 27) if he wishes I had left it alone, and he said “NO WAY!”. I did research, and the incidence of penile cancer goes up considerably in uncircumcised males. It is also a religious choice as well as a cosmetic choice. I have only seen one that was uncircumcised, and was completely turned off by it. But that’s just me. As for piercing, I allowed my daughter to have her ears pierced when she was 8. She made the choice herself, and wanted it for her birthday. She has never regretted it, even though her father and I were against it at first. Tattooing is another thing all together. Why would anyone want graffiti on their body? It’s low-class, and you run the danger of getting a disease from the equipment, even in a tattoo parlor that supposedly sterilizes it. It’s permanent, and if you change you mind and have it removed, it leaves scars. As for ear-holes closing up…once they have been pierced for a year or so, they are permanent. They will NOT “close up”. (I went without earrings once for over a year hoping mine would close, and they didn’t.) So parents, be SURE before you let your child do anything permanent to their bodies.
Becky
May 28th, 2009
9:55 am
The Voice, amen on that..I have watched Toddlers and Tiaras a couple of times and I would like to strangle those Moms..
As for tattoos and ear piercing, I don’t think anyone should get a tat until they are at least 21..Of course most of my family would disagree with that..As I said on another topic last week, my nephew’s fiance let her 14 year old son get a tattoo..Actually he now has 4 (I think)..I’ve never really given that much thought about ear piercing on babies..Most of the girls in my family didn’t get their ears pierced until 5-6..I didn’t get mine pierced until I was 16..
The one thing that I don’t understand is why this isn’t considered child endangerment..
East Point Resident
May 28th, 2009
9:55 am
Circumcision isn’t done for health reasons, that is just what people have been told by other ignorant people, so they believe it and continue this barbaric practice. There are more babies that have complications from circumcision than have problems stemming from going natural. Do your research.
Stephanie
May 28th, 2009
9:57 am
yes, but when it comes to taking your children to a nice restaurant, as a responsible parent (regardless of the situation) you need to show respect for other diners if you expect to be treated with respect as well. Crying children, misbehaving rugrats and bratty children are NOT my problem. They are the problem of crappy parents who don’t have enough sense to control their children or leave them with a sitter. I AM a parent, but I am a respectful one. If my child were ever in a restaurant, regardless of the time of day or trype of restaurant, if there were ever any questionable behavior, crying or temper tantrums, I would take my child out of the restaurant and allow the other diners there to enjoy the meal they paid for. Not to do so would be rude and impolite. My children should not be the cause of their ruined meal, just as others should not hte the cause of ruin for my dinner.
Let’s just face it, some people have no common sense in matters like these.
mscutie78
May 28th, 2009
9:58 am
I had my daughter’s ears pierced as an infant and I do not think it’s trashy as some bloggers have suggested. My daughter did not cry when they were pierced and the ‘pain’ that she would have been in would have been so minute that it pales in comparison to getting a tattoo. My parents pierced my ears as an infant and when I was about 10, my parents let me get a second set of piercings in my ear – and I screamed like a baby. I did not want my daughter to have to go through that pain that I went through when I was old enough to remember and understand the pain. As an infant, she is not going to be scarred from the piercing – she doesn’t remember the piercing and/or pain (if any)and I believe that is why many parents choose to pierce when the child is an infant. Piercing is not permanent as the hole can close but tattooing is permanent and I don’t believe they are remotely similar.
Many bloggers commented on a child’s right to consent – really? Since when are children given the right to consent? I think parents walk a slippery slope when we start giving children the right to decide for themselves! Parents are responsible for the child and should make decisions that are in the best interest of the child while obeying the law.
With regard to circumcision, it has been proven (google it) that there are health benefits to having this procedure done. Males who do not often have more sexually and bacterial infections than those who are. I have two brothers – one born in a Catholic hospital, one born in a Protestant hospital – one is circumcised – one was not – he did that when he was 20 and it was one of the most painful experiences of his life – he wishes my parents would have done it when he was a child so he wouldn’t have had to remember the pain he experienced as an adult.
motherjanegoose
May 28th, 2009
10:06 am
JJ….you are correct MOSTLY maybes are involved here.
RE: signs for age limits at restaurants… I DO see signs about not using cell phones and self absorbed folks pay no attention. There are speeding signs and does EVERYONE ( including me) pay attention. Courtesy and manners are flying out the window with the idea of :IF you have a problem with that, its YOUR problem, not mine……
Kind of like:
MY GRASS IS UP TO MY KNEES AND FULL OF WEEDS or I JUST HAD MY HOUSE PAINTED ORANGE or I AM OVERHAULING THE ENGINE OF A BUS IN MY DRIVEWAY or I HAVE 2 GOATS AND A ROOSTER IN MY BACK YARD and IF you have a problem with that, its YOUR problem, not mine……
This is why some folks live in neighborhoods that have rules ( we may not always like them) as they tend to keep folks in line and able to co exist with courteous respect of other’s rights too and not just our own. Those of us who live in these neighborhoods may be like those of us who want to eat in peace at CHOPS. Others should head to Cracker Barrel LOL.
FYI..If I am a busy body who has spoken to self absorbed parents that are dangerously letting their children RUN AMOK all over restaurants while servers are carrying trays of hot food and carafes of hot coffee, then why do these same servers and managers thank me profusely and tell me that parents are NUTS these days but they fear they will not leave the a tip if they approach them to complain about their children. I do not think they would thank me if I was doing something that was ignorant…just my opinion. I do know about school and teaching but nothing about restaurants. Outta here!
FedUp
May 28th, 2009
10:14 am
YOU do the research. Uncircumcised males run a much higher risk of penile cancer, they spread diseases easier to their partners and it’s much easier for them to contract diseases from others (it gets trapped under the foreskin) and it’s also a matter of cleanliness. FACT.
motherjanegoose
May 28th, 2009
10:17 am
ooops…”were doing something ignorant…”
Donna Outlaw
May 28th, 2009
10:23 am
The idea of a child being able to “consent” to having their ears pierced at 5 or 8 or 9 makes no sense so having a babies’ ears done is no different. My daughter had hers pierced when she was 5 because she wanted it and after 3 years stopped wearing earrings and both holes closed up and she had them pierced again at 13 which was more painful because the piercing was done over scar tissue. I was with her when we had her daughter’s ears pierced at 9 months and I can’t believe the negative comments about piercing little girl’s ears…lol I also don’t believe anyone under 18 should be able to choose to have an abortion etc without parental consent but if you want to carry the “consent” word that far in regard to ear piercing, then it should be 18+ or not at all. Do those that let their 8 year olds get their ears pierced think the young girls were any more capable of making a truly informed consent than a baby is? Also, what if the gun had gotten stuck in an 8 year old’s ear? I imagine that would freak that young girl out as much as a baby! It would freak ME out if it happened to ME! Ear piercing isn’t in the same ballpark as tattoos.
jb
May 28th, 2009
10:31 am
I am shocked at the women here who put down men that are not circumsised. My husband isn’t and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Sex is the best un-cut and it’s definately not gross looking. The ones saying this are speaking from ignorance in my opinion.
PHR
May 28th, 2009
10:42 am
FedUp – We are one of the only countries in the world that routinely circumcises males. I think it is ridiculous!
You know we are made the way we are for a reason, so why do change that? As a baby you don’t have to do anything different to a child that isn’t circumsised. I’ve been there and done that.
Oh, and don’t give me that old excuse about how you get your son circumsised so that he will look like his father. Blah, blah, blah…
JJ
May 28th, 2009
10:49 am
Hey jb – I bet if your husband WAS circumsised, you wouldn’t have it any other way……
Jesse's Girl
May 28th, 2009
10:57 am
Hee-hee
HB
May 28th, 2009
11:03 am
MJG, please read my post again.
1) I argued against your assertion that the baby should be in bed at 9:30. I did not address whether or not it’s a good idea to take a baby to a high end restaurant, although frankly, I don’t have a problem with it if the child is quiet and the parents jump up to take the child outside if they get cranky. And just curious, how do you know the child wasn’t quiet, or that the parents didn’t take him/her out if he/she got fussy? You said you only saw them walk in. And nowhere did I say it’s wrong for someone to complain about something affecting them or to say something to parents whose children are running wild putting themselves and others in danger. My friends got nasty glares and comments about bedtimes just for having their baby out and about because apparently they were negligent parents for not putting their baby to bed earlier. Those people were being busy bodies — complaining about noisy neighbors is not.
2) The recommendation of more hours of night sleep is not for babies — it is for older children. Babies’ sleep needs are typically calculated by 24-hour cycle. As I clearly stated, my friends had that schedule when their baby was under a year old, and they did not wake him up in the morning — he woke up on his own 8-9 hours after going to sleep and napped 2-3 times a day. According to the article you posted, that is appropriate. Babies’ night sleep patterns get longer as they get older, and parents are lucky if they get 8-9 hours at a stretch at night from infants. Now as a 2-year-old, this child goes to bed by 8:30, wakes up on his own at 7-7:30, and takes an afternoon nap. So please explain, what does my description of my friends’ infant’s schedule have to do with children being too tired at school?
jb
May 28th, 2009
11:04 am
JJ – the first one of 20 years was circumsised and trust me…I’ll take the latter anyday.
motherjanegoose
May 28th, 2009
11:12 am
OOOPs, sorry… HB did I miss the “napped 2-3 times a day” in the morning post… was it just me?
Your friends may certainly be the exception to the rule and why many other parents gave nasty glares as they have seen the majority of these young parents with no clue.
Just curious, do you have children…I cannot remember.
Your friend’s child has nothing to do with children at school…I made that point to say there are way too many children who are NOT getting enough sleep….again, ask a teacher or a pediatrician.
Anne
May 28th, 2009
11:15 am
I would never do any of the 3 aforementioned things to my children-piercing, tattooing, or circumcision. However to liken all three is absurd! I drunk redneck permanently “marking” his son cannot be compared with piercing an infant’s ears nor can it be considered in the same arena as a religious or health choice of a parent who chooses to circumcise their son. Although I disagree, circumcision is done with good intent on the part of the parent. It is what they believe will benefit their child. Infant ear piercing is done to feminize their female daughters who will have a 90% or more likelihood of wanting them done when they are older anyway. Drunkenly marking your child as your possession just cannot be compared. I don’t know what else to say!
HB
May 28th, 2009
11:54 am
I do not have children. I have many years of babysitting/nanny and teaching experience (kids from 2 weeks old up through high school). The naps were not specifically mentioned earlier. I only said he slept for an 8-9 hour stretch at night before waking up, which most people who work with or have children know is a pretty good night stretch for an infant. I didn’t realize that I needed to tick off nap times so that readers wouldn’t assume the infant only slept one time for 8-9 hours in a 24-hour period, especially since I mentioned that little babies sleep off and on for a few hours at a time.
And why do you assume my friends are the exception to the rule and that other parents whose babies are out at 9:30 have no clue? Based on your description of 75 energetic kids running around and one who was lethargic, it seems that child’s parents were the exception. I’ve just noticed that you seem to have a very negative outlook on people in general. The majority of young parents don’t have a clue, nobody has manners, you’re sickened that people don’t stand when soldiers walk by in airports…every day! Sheesh! You just seem to look awfully hard for what people are doing wrong. I asked my soldier friend, by the way, if people stood in airports when he walked by in uniform and if it offended them if they didn’t. He replied, “Huh? Are they supposed to? If people stood everytime a soldier walked by at BWI, no one would ever sit!” He did say he was touched by how many people walk up to him and thank him for his service, though. That’s what I do personally to show my appreciation, so please don’t be sickened if I don’t follow your rule of standing when you see me.
jb
May 28th, 2009
12:57 pm
HB – I couldn’t have said it better.
Paul
May 28th, 2009
1:39 pm
Boys are not circumcised in Scandinavia (Finland, Sweden, Denmark) and they have the lowest sexually transmitted disease rates in the western world over there. Circumcision is a fraud and a social custom that needs to stop. All three things (tattoo, piercing, circumcision) should not be done until the child can consent at 18 years of age.
Jack
May 28th, 2009
1:49 pm
Well circumcision is certainly the worst of these things done without the consent of the owner of the body.
People justify circumsiion for all sorts of reasons, but most people that permanantly change their sons genitals do not tink or know that the main male pleasure zones are takne away by the surgery. This is the most sensitiove part, but most importantly it is the most pleasure giving of the body parts. What a stupid thing to do to take away a lifelong source of sexual pleasure. It makes peircing and tatoos apear to be misnor issues.
motherjanegoose
May 28th, 2009
1:53 pm
Perhaps in comments here, I appear negative. I will share what clients said about me last week in Florida and these are actual comments I am reading them ( from my clients) now:
“entertaining, fun, creative, energetic and informative …love your one liners”
Maybe I am just better suited in an educational arena. I do get negative about those who seem to have no sense or courtesy for others.
Is your friend in Atlanta? I am speaking about being in the atrium at Hartsfield and when they march together in a group with those who volunteer to escort them to the service personnel lounge,
most folks here will stand. I have not seen this in other airport and I know I did not clarify this and I apologize.
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION and one held by lots of other parents whom I know….
after you have your own children, you see things differently. I had LOTS of opinions about children and taught for 5 years before had my own but it IS different when you go home to your own….you know more when you are up with them at night vomiting, an ear infection, hopping on the bus for the first time or even driving a car alone for the first time. If I am the only one who feels this way, then I may be the only one but I think there may be at least 5 or 6 others out there.
Jack
May 28th, 2009
2:02 pm
What a load of follish ignorance is:
“YOU do the research. Uncircumcised males run a much higher risk of penile cancer, they spread diseases easier to their partners and it’s much easier for them to contract diseases from others (it gets trapped under the foreskin) and it’s also a matter of cleanliness.”
Natural males do not run any real risk of penal cancer. The chance of getting MRSA staph from US hospital from circumcision is much much higher than any chance of anyone getting penile cancer. The chance of death from circumcision is near the chance of anyone getting penile cancer!
Natural men do not spread diseases easier to their partners see the detailed New Zealand research on this. Cut has just as much chance of STDs and higher risk of some. The US has a higher HIV problem and high cut rate. Natural Europe and Japan have much lower HIV. In the US no HIV risk change is associated with cut.
Nothing gets trapped under the foreskin unless one puts it there.
Cut does not make anything cleaner. In fact, it exposes parts of the penis to foreign materials. The matter of cleanliness thing is myth.
Don’t cut off your babies pleasure zones. Don’t buy into the myths about natural body parts.
JATL
May 28th, 2009
2:06 pm
Well, first of all MJG -you should have read the entire post from me regarding tattoos “inside the perimeter”. I said it was becoming very popular to put your children’s names and birthdates in a tattoo around here -NOT tattooing in general -BIG DIFFERENCE! Most “tramp stamp” tattoos (lower back tats) I see are on a bunch of suburban teenage girls wandering suburban malls whenever I find it necessary to venture to one. Tattooing has almost become passe because so many people EVERYWHERE do it these days! Quite honestly I wish they were still somewhat unusual. When I got mine, it wasn’t something a lot of people did, so I wouldn’t care if I moved somewhere where no one had any -it would actually be nice (as long as it wasn’t suburban Atlanta -been there/done that/hated it).
Onto today’s topic -REALLY?? Theresa, are your ears pierced? As one who has both tattoos and her ears pierced, there’s NO comparison to the few seconds from a piercing gun and the time involved on even a simple tattoo. I don’t find them particularly painful, but I cannot IMAGINE holding a two or three year old down and doing what feels like a pin prick or slow knife cut on their body for anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. My 3 year old would have to be tied up! That was a big question of mine regarding this story -how did he get the kid to be still? I think it’s horrible! Definitely falls under “child abuse”! I’m not even going to get back into the circumcision debate -both of my boys are and I’m glad.
JATL
May 28th, 2009
2:12 pm
Paul, the reason boys in Scandinavia have such low STD rate (there is also a VERY low incidence of teenage pregnancy and abortion overall) is because they have the most progressive sex education system in the world! I dated a guy from Denmark years ago, and they learn about sex and everything that goes with it starting in early childhood (age-appropriate -simple stuff about where babies come from) -and continuing through adolescence. If the religious nuts and people who seem to find sex dirty and freakish here would back off and let us educate, give out free birth control, etc., it would be amazing at how things would change. And no, OUR kids are the ones having sex at ridiculously early ages -THEIR kids have an average “first time” age of 17 and many actually wait until college!
Jesse's Girl
May 28th, 2009
2:48 pm
Circumcision is most certainly not a fraud…how silly. It began as a cleanliness issue and was thought to be much more pleasing to G-d, more respectful. Of course we now know that the cleanliness aspect is small(if the man bathes daily, if not, he should be circumcized)…but the tradition is enormous and meaningful.
HB
May 28th, 2009
2:54 pm
MJG, with regard to this particular conversation, I doubt being a parent would change my opinion, which is essentially that I don’t know what’s best for everyone and don’t think anyone else does either. As I said I have a lot of experience working closely with families and children, and they all had different ways of doing things, most of which worked well for them. I’ve known well-rested, healthy, happy babies who are regularly out at 9pm, and equally well-rested, healthy, happy ones who were in bed every night by 7:30; babies who sat quietly and happily in restaurants at 9 months, and ones who screamed and grabbed everything on the table, convincing their parents it was best to eat at home for a few years. Different ways worked for individual families, leaving me hesistant to criticize on sight, for example, a couple walking into a restaurant with a baby at 9:30. I hope I will continue to be open-minded after having children of my own and not come to the conclusion that I know all that is right and wrong about what other parents do. I hope I will be able to figure out what works best for my child and family and not judge others.
Annie
May 28th, 2009
3:02 pm
MJG, I’m not sure how much time you spend at the airport but I am there at least twice a week as I travel a lot (too much at times!) with my job and I’ve yet to see anyone standing up for any military personnel passing by, whether it be in the atrium, baggage claim, or where ever.
I’ve been in other airports, mostly up north, where people show far more respect for military personnel than we ever do here.
jack5656
May 28th, 2009
3:06 pm
I can’t believe there is so much argument when a simple answer is out there. The bottom line is this, if you tattoo, circumcise, or get your infant’s ears pierced, it shouldn’t be for your own vanity. It should be because you honestly think at the end of the day, it’s for the benefit of your child. This guy did it out of unadulterated vanity. Wanted to mark his territory. Even if he had gotten a professional to administer the tattoo it would have been wrong because he was doing it for him, not the kid.
Whether you agree with circumcision or not, most parents I know weighed that decision heavily. In each case they believed their decision was in the best interests of their child. In the case of circumcision, I won’t even berate the parents who do it so that the kid will look like the majority of other kids so that he won’t feel different. At least the parents made the decision thinking about their child’s feelings. On the flip side, I heard one mom tell me that her husband insisted on it because he wanted his son to “look like daddy”. That disgusted me…he insisted on it because he was thinking about raising a mini me instead of what was honestly in the best interests of his child.
So the answer on whether which of those three options is worse is simple…it depends on the motivation of the parent who forced it on the kid.
Jack
May 28th, 2009
3:31 pm
The tradition is somehwat a fraud. The Egyptians started it and the Israelites were marked as slaves with it. It is believed the Abraham circ was very minor compared to today. Historians point to a rewrtie of the Torah believed to force Jews to have a radial circ, so they would look cut (and would not pass themselves off as gentile).
In the US it was not at all about being clean, but about curtailing masturbation. Both the religious tradition and the US nutter tradition are about lessining male sexual pleasure.
I think it is a bit out there to say God gave us these pleasure parts and then really wants us to cut them off out of respect for what (his creation)?
People get fired up about this and I sure do. Hurting babies, taking this from them and making a culture where natual healthy men are considered odd gets me very upset.
Keep that knife away from the baby boy.
birak
May 28th, 2009
4:06 pm
Circumcision is cosmetic surgery because the overwhelming medical consensus is there’s no medical need for it. Parents “just want it done.” A common reason given is “because dad had it done.” Obviously, looking like daddy is a cosmetic reason. Of course parents also claim to believe there are health reasons (they are misled to believe it, too), but performing prophylactic surgery on a child in hopes of a future benefit is absurd, and essentially unheard of in any other case. That reveals it as just a rationalization for cosmetic surgery.
When you consider that circumcision removes functional sensory tissue, changes sexual function, and leaves a significant scar, I don’t see how it’s better than a tattoo unless you make the circular argument that it’s better simply because it’s culturally excepted.
uconn
May 28th, 2009
4:16 pm
HEY … If you want to cicumcise YOUR kid, then do it, if you don’t, then don’t. And don’t pass judgement on people who do not see things your way.
Richard
May 28th, 2009
4:25 pm
In Latin countries they wouldn’t dream of circumcisizing a baby boy unless medically necessary, but the overwhelming majority pierce their baby daughters’ ears without a second thought. In this country, we wouldn’t dream of piercing our baby daughters’ ears, but believe circumcision is a choice the parent should make, early.
Both cultures try to defend their crazy practice. Less pain and reduced infection Latins say. We say that there are health benefits and it is easier when young. Interestingly, Europeans are do neither and are healthier in every category than their Latin and American brothers and sisters.
It should be up to the individual to make the decision for themselves. It is their body, isn’t it?
DB
May 28th, 2009
5:24 pm
MJG: No, I never took a small child to an expensive restaurant, because at that point, I was a) too excited to have a meal at a restaurant that didn’t have a drive-thru! and b) I was too cheap to pay Chop prices for a few bites of food for a toddler. We’re not big foodies, so we don’t often hit expensive restaurants, anyway.
About the most daring thing I ever did was take my 2-month old with me to the movies one night. I was very slow in recovering from the emergency C-section, and I had a bad case of cabin-fever. Baby was on a weird sleep schedule, and about 8:30 pm, my husband said, “Let’s go see ___” We bundled the baby in the chest carrier, sat on the back row next to the door, ready to dart at the slightest snuffle, and saw the movie. The baby slept the entire time, all snuggled up. And I kept my sanity!
Jesse's Girl
May 28th, 2009
5:47 pm
Curtailing masturbation? By a show of hands…..how well did that work out?:) Its still a tradition that is holy in my religion/spiritual walk. And I’m talking about circumcision, not masturbation…:)
Tom Tobin
May 28th, 2009
5:49 pm
I am not in favor of tattooing a three year old. That is far below the age of consent.
That being said, tattooing does not remove half the skin from someone’s genitals, also without their consent. I never met a man who said, “I’d like less penis, please”.
Health benefits, who are you kidding? Why did Canada, Britain, New Zealand, and Australia all stop circumcising? Because more people were damaged by botched circumcisions, or unintended side effects, like hidden penis, meatal stenosis, skin bridges, and similar problems, like death, than were helped. Name another operation where the person has healthy parts removed, and they can get sold, so the doctor makes a double profit.
It is sick to cut on a kid, period.
Karma
May 28th, 2009
5:54 pm
WOW, teresa, a pop quiz tomorrow, great!
Can you be more condescending? The AJC is sinking and asking its readers why its sinking, yet with all the cuts and all the REAL writers fired, what do WE get? “Hey guys, ever tatooed a baby?” and tomorrow I’ll tell you “how to take your kids for a drive”.
Hey AJC, the idea that newspapapers should be written on an 8th grade level is a myth. The papers that figured that out will survive, the rest will continue to fade away.
WE are not stupid!
Theresa Walsh Giarrusso
May 28th, 2009
6:00 pm
Dear Karma — I don’t think the readers are stupid. Pop quiz is meant to be fun. It’s called Fun Friday and we try to have fun.
Jesse's Girl
May 28th, 2009
6:47 pm
Karma…if you don’t like it…you are indeed free to read something else. REAL news is a relative term. In light of all the crap we are bombarded with daily…..the raping of children…suicides of 12 year olds….fathers leaving thier families…mothers selling their babies….drugs being bought and sold by children who have yet to hit puberty…the complete implosion of our economy….I could go on and on. In the face of all that, I am happy…dare I say down right flippin giddy to have something to read on occassion that doesn’t make me vomit in my own mouth. What Theresa is doing here is building a family. If you don’t want to be a part of it….I invite you, Karma, to butt the hell out.
motherjanegoose
May 28th, 2009
7:13 pm
Good job Jesse’s Girl @ Karma! I really hate it when bloggers are rude to Theresa.
Today I may be considered the wicked stepsister as I may be only one MOM who actually thinks being a mom on momania gives you a bit more validity than those who know a lot about kids but have never been a mother to one.
To me, this is would be like me telling nurse& mother that I have been in hospital several times and watched lots of shows about hospitals, so that I really do know so much about what is going on in the hospital…..NOT….I would never try to insinuate that I know what she knows, as that is her expertise.
I know not everyone agrees with my ideas and perhaps even the majority on this blog do not but that is the beauty of sharing here. We bounce ideas off of each other.
Here is something funny that happened to me in a meeting in Spokane. I had written feedback from teachers: 260 said I was an excellent speaker….23 said I was good and 3 said I was fair. There you have it! I DO KNOW not everyone likes me or would even have a faint interest in what I have to share!
JATL…I am sorry that you feel it necessary to venture to the malls outside of the perimeter and have to observe our silly teenagers that sport tramp stamps. I warn you not to go to Texas and shop there as the BIG HATS, BIG HAIR AND BIG BELT BUCKLES may send you over the edge.
IMHO there is life outside of the perimeter and it is not so bad….LOL. We do even have some decent shopping centers and restaurants too.
There are lots of places in the midwest that have conservative folks who do not have tatoos…unless they got them in the military. But these places also have ( heaven forbid) folks who buy their entire wardrobe at Sears or even OMG Wal Mart!
What happened to TRIVIA questions Theresa? We tried this one time and I thought it was fun. Each of us has something that could be a trivia question….I will give it a whirl:
Here is a trivia question for you….why do they not have the $1 store in Alaska? I will post the answer later ( which I did not learn inside the perimeter….LOL).
HB
May 28th, 2009
7:50 pm
*GASP* I’m not a mom and I dared insinuate that my opinion could have as much validity as a mom here! *eyes rolling*
It’s not a competition to see who is more valid, but I really resent the idea my opinion would always matter less here. There is a ton I can’t know that only a mother can, but I do have “valid” contributions to make based on observations, like the fact that a baby’s bedtime doesn’t always matter. Amount of sleep matters, but whether it starts at 8 or 10pm really isn’t a big deal — I’ve seen it and stand by that opinion based on experience! Looking again at the young couple you judged to be clueless after watching them walk into a restuarant at 9:30pm — I assume you’re basing that opinion on the fact that it’s something you would not do as the mother of your child, and that somehow makes you an expert on their family? I’m willing to bet in my years as a babysitter/nanny where I had very close relationships with multiple families up and down the East Coast that I’ve seen up-close more different family routines and their results than you have. That makes me an expert neither on motherhood, nor on what routine will work best for whom, but it has shown me that different routines can work equally well for different families, and therefore, I choose not to pass judgement on those parents and children about whom I know nothing. What works best depends on the family, the personality of the child, the circumstances of the situation, etc, and being a mother does not make you an expert on every family you see walking down the street.
Jesse's Girl
May 28th, 2009
8:17 pm
Is it because Alaska still barters?! I’m sure it is…I got all my Alaska learning from Northern Exposure!!!!
Nadia
May 28th, 2009
9:10 pm
“Many bloggers commented on a child’s right to consent – really? Since when are children given the right to consent? I think parents walk a slippery slope when we start giving children the right to decide for themselves!”
I could not disagree more. Who the heck am I to decide for my son whether or not to circumcise? He is free to do it once he is old enough to decide for himself. We are talking about irreversible mutilation. It is my job as his mother to protect him from things like this.
“YOU do the research. Uncircumcised males run a much higher risk of penile cancer, they spread diseases easier to their partners and it’s much easier for them to contract diseases from others (it gets trapped under the foreskin) and it’s also a matter of cleanliness. FACT.”
Not a fact…finding of a few studies. Don’t you know how these studies work? They know the result they are looking for before they begin. Matter of cleanliness—what? A guy cannot clean his penis? Give me a break.
As for the actual topic today…as others have said, piercing and tattoos are somewhat reversible and not as horrible as what I consider circumcision to be. I still do not think a parent needs to be tattooing a toddler.
Hugh7
May 28th, 2009
9:44 pm
You’re right and they’re good questions. Circumcision is worst. The “health benefits” are spurious. Hardly anyone is circumcised in Scandinavia (or ever needs to be) and their health is at least as good as men in the US. It removes the most sensitive part of the genitals – a really fundamental attack on a person’s most intimate part. And it carries real risks of worse damage.
@FedUp: penile cancer is rarer than male breast cancer. It’s so rare it’s hard to get good figures, so even if circumcision was 100% effective, it would still take more than 1000 circumcisions to prevent even one case.
@Jesse’s girl: “medical” circumcision was introduced to PUNISH masturbation and make it more difficult and less pleasurable (on the way). It does all of that. As for your spiritual path and holy tradition, I notice you don’t have to be on the receiving end.
@uconn: There are things parents may not do to children, and cutting off parts of their bodies at whim is one of them. There is no good reason for this part to be the sole exception.
Pretty clearly tattooing is next worst and ear piercing third (because the hole will close if she doesn’t like it). But they’re all human rights violations if the person most concerned doesn’t give their informed consent.
Tally
May 28th, 2009
9:56 pm
I have no tattoos and nothing pierced. But, I am circumcised. I would much rather have a tattoo and pierced ears than have been circumcised just after birth. Circumcision is a barbaric practice when inflicted on babies. If an adult chooses to be cut, tattooed, or pierced, that is his business, but leave the babies alone.
I am glad that it is possible to restore the foreskin, which I have. I have lived both cut and uncut lives. Uncut (or intact) is much better.
ProtectingChildren
May 28th, 2009
10:28 pm
Tattooing your kid, piercing your kid’s ears, cutting off part of your kid’s penis are all qualitatively different. But that’s not the point. It all comes down to performing an UNNECESSARY body alteration on a child WITHOUT the child’s consent. In that way, they are all the same — a violation of human rights by parents who don’t know any better. American parents have cultural blinders that parents in other countries don’t have. All three are a form of child abuse.
Jen
May 29th, 2009
12:00 am
Ear piercing and tattoo can never be compared to circumcision for one BIG reason. The foreskin is a functional, important portion of the male sex organ. The skin that becomes the foreskin on men is the same skin that becomes the clitoral hood and the inner labia on women. and shares many of the same functions. Like female circumcision, male circumcision impairs the sexual function of its victims by removing erogenous tissue that is designed to enhance sexual pleasure. The foreskin includes the frenulum, the ridged band of nerves, and thousands of specialized nerve recep-
tors that are an essential part of male genital anatomy. The foreskin itself is composed of completely different tissue than any other portion of the penis. The cells in tissue has been proven to provide both sensory an protective function. The male foreskin is designed to protect the glans of the penis throughout a man’s life, ensuring that the internal mucosal tissue remains moist and sensitive (much the same way that a woman’s clitoral hood protects the clitoris). In addition, the foreskin acts as a natural gliding mechanism to reduce chafing and dryness during intercourse. During an erection, the shaft of the penis becomes fifty percent (50%) longer. Where does the skin come from to cover that longer shaft? From the foreskin of course. And there
is still some left to move loosely over the body of the penis, reducing friction during sexual intercourse, as nature intended. The total amount of tissue removed is the equivalent of 15 square inches on an adult male and contains over 20,000 nerve endings. Interestingly a woman’s clitoris only contains 8,000 nerve endings.
During childhood the foreskin is fused to the glans (head). In this way the foreskin protects the developing penis from urine, feces and other harmful pathogens. This is one reason the condition of meatal stenosis (a narrowing of the urethral opening) is virtually unseen in intact (uncut) men. The protective functions of the foreskin are extremely important during the infancy years b/c the foreskin keeps diaper contents away from the penis. A circumcised penis is not only harder to keep clean after the surgery b/c there is an open wound exposed to urine and feces, but also b/c there are now cracks where fecal matter can hide. With an intact boy all you have to do is wipe like a finger and NEVER try to retract the foreskin. It is fused there for a reason!!!
Genital modifications are a serious, permanent decision that should only be made by a consenting adult. By leaving children intact you respect their right to choose over their own body. CIrcumcision is considered non-therapeutic, cosmetic surgery by ever medical organization in the entire world. Don’t take this choice away from your child!
intactamerica.org
cirp.org
Angela
May 29th, 2009
12:03 am
OMG! I read through about 20 comments. I can NOT believe how many people think ear piercing is WRONG but circumcision is hunky-doorey! You gotta be kidding me! Circumcision is a surgical procedure, whether you agree with it or not. Tats and ear piercing is NOT a surgery. Come one people!
I don’t believe that permanently altering a child’s body in the absence of disease should ever be allowed or tolerated by any compassionate or educated country such as the US. Circumcision is at best, removing healthy tissue in hopes of *maybe* avoiding a very slight risk of an infection that could be treated with medication. Just like removing my child’s outer ears and nose would for certain removed the risk of skin cancer on those areas. However, it’s not tolerated here. Ear piercing, while certainly not as bad as foot binding or female circumcision, is a culturally accepted way to “beautify” a child. However, that too is a permanent change to a non-consenting child’s body.
The US accepts piercing of the ears as acceptable but if I dare take my kid to have her nipples or belly button pierced, I’d be thrown in jail for sure!
Tattoos aren’t culturally acceptable for minors – yet! But when we get down to it, is it any different than piercing or circumcision? No. So yes, there is a double standard.
Again, children should be able to consent to ANY *permanent* changes made to their body *in absence of disease* when they are 18. This shouldn’t be done by parents (keep in mind clipping nails, surgery for a ruptured appendix, or hair cutting does NOT fall in this category, as these are either temporary changes or changes in the presence of temporary body parts – eyebrow waxing would fall in this category, although I don’t know why any parent would do that to a child).
And the person who suggested tattooing a barcode on a kid at birth is a very scary individual. I hope he was kidding.
Karma
May 29th, 2009
6:11 am
“building a family”? wow, that is disturbing on SO many levels.
Jesse's Girl
May 29th, 2009
6:34 am
I’m sorry Karma….did you say something?
Jesse's Girl
May 29th, 2009
6:36 am
Per the circumcision issue….I am learning something, I must say. All I have ever known were the religious/traditional reasons for having it done. You have educated me!! Thanks.
motherjanegoose
May 29th, 2009
7:23 am
Having been a mother for 22 years ( next week) and also living in the south for 20 ( next month) it may be futile to prove my point on MOMania with non mothers not from the south. I KNOW I am not from the south but I also know I have the hardest time trying to prove a point with non southerners… when they know I am from Atlanta. If they finally hire me, they say WOW you are so much fun and we learned so much BUT many will not hire me as they do not think southerners could know anything. Too bad.