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Are you opposed to Dutch?

Earlier this week, we talked about how cheap dates have their place.  I then received an email asking about my opinion on “going Dutch” or paying half of the date.  So here it is: I don’t like having Dutch sprung on me.  If we are paying our own way, I prefer to have this information beforehand.

I think the people who oppose Dutch usually don’t like being asked out then being forced to pay their own way.  If we agree to do this ahead of time, it is different then going out and expecting someone to pay for you.

My opinion of a guy would change if he asks me out then expects me to pay my own way.  It’s hard to explain but I believe that if a guy does not want to take me out and pay my way, he does not think of me romantically.  I don’t mind paying my own way in a relationship, but I am old school when it comes to paying my way as part of dating.

What do you think? Are you against going Dutch?  Do you think a guy who asks a woman to pay her half of the bill sees her as a platonic friend?

By Wise Diva, Misadventures in Atlanta Dating Blog

274 comments Add your comment

Exiled

April 11th, 2013
6:55 am

A man paying is fine. And good meals too. What I object too personally is the women who continue wanting to eat my mula but not giving up the goods.

If u eating good food…honey, at least after about three dates,give that coochie Up!
After the third date the least I expect is the lady inviting dude to the crib with a simple ‘u wanna come to the crib and have a home date today?’ that’s all a man of ‘old fashioned sense expects because he spend his money on U…..( three dates spending money on a stranger ain’t No joke!!)

If u old fashioned don’t accept the second date. Period!

Third Date it’s a Layout!

Have a good day MIA!

Augusta starts today….

Go Tiger!!!!

Exiled

April 11th, 2013
6:56 am

Lee

April 11th, 2013
7:09 am

If this “date” is the first and we are going dutch, it was never a date, we are just friends.

Single and Happy

April 11th, 2013
7:26 am

Hey all

Diva you already summed it up, if it’s not discussed at the time of the asking, then the one that asks pays!!

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
7:31 am

GOOD Thursday Morning MIA!!! *It’s Friday Eve!* :-D

“I don’t mind paying my own way in a relationship, but I am old school when it comes to paying my way as part of dating.”

I agree with Diva on this one. Lee also hit the nail on the head: “If this “date” is the first and we are going dutch, it was never a date, we are just friends.” BINGO!!!

The man formerly know as Dan - still...Superior

April 11th, 2013
7:59 am

I love how Single Independent Women (and my SBW’s) love to put on that cape, fly around, and tell anyone that will listen on your “hard fought” independence…..until it comes time to pay for yourself (or someone else) on a date.

It’s just amazing that there is still a mentality that there’s something wrong with going half on something, even a date. It’s amazing and instructive.

How are you planning on building a life with someone (if that’s a goal) and you’re somehow offput by them asking you to something you two may one day get to anyway (paying half of everything)?

Oh, I get the whole “gentlemanly, chivalrous” thing, and I agree with it, but in the end you gotta start somewhere.

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
8:13 am

Dan, I agree with you gotta start somewhere. However, the 1st date is not the time to start that. What you speak of is something that should happen once an actual relationship has been established. Not something that occurs straight out of the gate. Personally, in a romantic relationship, I have no problem going half, heck I’ll even treat him to an all expense paid date. Just know that this is after we’ve established something meaningful.

Has the notion of courtship gone totally out of the window??? Are women still the prize or have most guys gotten caught up into thinking that women should CHASE after them???

Hazel

April 11th, 2013
8:17 am

i am all over the place on this one. I think the guy should pay most of the time. ; ) The lady should however pay here and there and not expect him to pay everytime. It is a turn off if he “asks” to go dutch. He shouldn’t be surprised if he gets a “no” for the second date.

Hazel

April 11th, 2013
8:19 am

@Missmoni- I couldn’t have done a better job at saying what u said @ 8:13am

CoolShadow

April 11th, 2013
8:20 am

As Dan mentioned earlier, it’s all part of the chivalry routine for a man to spring for the date. For the first date, I see no problem with the man springing for the date. My issue is when a man has subsequently been placed in the friend zone and she initiates lunch/dinner plans and still expects the man to pay for the meal.

Courtside Seats (With no PSL's added on!!!! )

April 11th, 2013
8:30 am

Morning all…. Here we go again…..While I have no problem paying for all my dates, Woman should understand and willfully accept that ass you have expectations, so do we…..Now as long as we both understand and are willing to meet at least some of those expectations, this should never be an issue….

Coach

April 11th, 2013
8:30 am

Going dutch on dates is tacky. Dont ask a woman out if you dont plan to treat her, now with that being said if you can only afford Captain D’s dont take her to Spondivits. Ladies ordering the most expensive entree’s and the most expensive drinks is also tacky, with a to go order is equally tacky. My main issue is dont let it be Hennessy on my money and Doobeshay on your money.

The man formerly know as Dan - still...Superior

April 11th, 2013
8:37 am

@Moni

Courtship has not gone, but it’s definitely changed (and it needs to).

The idea of ‘courting’ a woman had a lot to do with ‘innocence’ (read: virginity). These days that plateau been gone, so what are dudes left to do?

Do you treat the woman you like well, yes; but you also expect reciprocity. And the sooner that happens, the better.

Men are conditioned based on a reward system (do this, get that). It’s why we go to the gym, run in ToughMudder (shout out to Dreams for that one), and work hard. So why not expect the same in dating? And not “take her out, expect sex”, but take her out and expect that she may pay for herself, and me.

Those types of women are mysterious and sought after by a HUGE part of the male poplace. If only because they’re subconsciously rewarding the males hard work (and asking a woman out is work) with reciprocity.

All I’m saying is, give a little to get a lot. The women that I dated (my wife included) that had their capes on when the bill came, impressed me far more than some wishy-washy inconsistent female. Cross that threshold, and watch what he will (want to) do for you.

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
8:38 am

Hi Hazel! I see we’re vibing this morning! :-)

If the guy is in the friendzone and does not want to pay for the entire meal, then he has the right and the option to DECLINE going out with her in the first place. Why continue to go out with someone who is NOT romantically interested in you but expects you to pay every time??? Get a clue and move on!!!

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
8:43 am

Dan All I’m saying is IF the guy is EXPECTING the woman to pay for herself, then he should let that be known when he is making the date. That way she KNOWS upfront and has the option to either still go out or decline.

Put your expectations on the table, no one can read your mind.

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
8:46 am

Oh and by the way Dan, ALL women are NOT sexually active. There are some who are waiting for marriage, even if they aren’t virgins, a person can at any time make a choice to stop having sex and wait for marriage. :-)

LeeH1

April 11th, 2013
8:48 am

There is so much wrong with this discussion that I don’t know where to begin. First, “going Dutch” is a ethnic slur, indicating that people from the Netherlands or Belgium are excessively cheap and unwilling to pay their fair share, i.e., for the dependence of others.

Secondly, this is sexist in saying that men are just naturally expected to pay for the date, when fair pay requires both men and women to have the opportunity for equal income. When men are expected to be the providers, women are expected to be the dependents, giving their submission to the more powerful male.

Thirdly, this is clinging to older considerations of dating, formed in a period when men were the masters, and women didn’t drive; women didn’t have jobs; were owned and protected by their father until they were owned and protected by their husband; where women were not expected to go out on their own (Heavens! A single woman sitting alone at a restaurant?! How horrid!); when women weren’t expected to handle money (poor dears, you can’t expect them to make change or leave adequate tips, and they might be cheated by smarter men, you know!). Why any woman would want to cling to this time period is beyond me.

You are also placing the woman on par with entertainment. As the man pays to see a movie or pays to go bowling, he is also required, socially, to pay for the entertainment of being with the flicka. This is not ameeting of equals, but more like an evening out with an actress. She is expected to be charming, witty, pretty and entertaining, much like a rented DVD. This is an interesting concept, but it belongs back in the last millenium.

Finally, if you demand that men pretend to adhere to these older ideas of manhood, don’t be surprised when they trample all over the feelings of the woman with male priviledge. After all, power followeth money. If you insist the man pays the piper on the date, you can expect him to tell you how and when to dance to the tune.

Dating between equals is so much better. And it requires so much more from the women, who have not caught up with the changes (and responsibilities) in their recent advancement.

If you still expect white men to act towards blacks as they did a hundred years ago, then of course you can expect men to pay for your evening out. Men have changed. Women need to catch up.

Courtside Seats (With no PSL's added on!!!! )

April 11th, 2013
8:54 am

Wow LeeH1…… all I want is for MissMoni to take me to Goldfish for dinner this weekend…… :)

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
8:59 am

LOL at Court!!!

MsAtl

April 11th, 2013
9:00 am

Morning All!

I will not pay my way on a first date, otherwise I do not consider it a date. I do not have an issue paying for some of the later dates. If we are “hanging out” I expect to pay my way. Either way, if a man wants a “date” to be dutch, he should make that known ahead of time. If I am in a relationship, I expect that we will both spend money.
I don’t care how many dates we have been on, I do not owe a man anything. I don’t subscribe to the old adage “@ss, gas or grass, no one rides free.” If you are asking me out only because you expect sex, then please do not ask.

Court- “Woman should understand and willfully accept that ASS you have expectations, so do we.” Was that a freudian slip???

Leggs

April 11th, 2013
9:01 am

I see nothing wrong with going Dutch, but if you ask me out on a date then inform me we will be going dutch, we aren’t on a date.

Morning.

Courtside Seats (With no PSL's added on!!!! )

April 11th, 2013
9:03 am

MsAtl, lololl…it really was!!! My point was that there are issue that come with blind, broad expectations, and if a woman is going to have them then she should not be surprised if the guy does as well….

MsAtl

April 11th, 2013
9:09 am

LeeH1- You lost me at the White/Black comparison. I fail to see the connection. as to your comment that men have changed, I agree. However, the way that I see some men have changed is not flattering in the least. Some men are not of the same caliber as their forefathers. I will not entertain a man who does not know how to respect a woman and sees dating as a way to get the cookie as opposed to a way to get to know me. I respect myself and demand nothing less from men.
That said, as I stated earlier, it is not my belief that a man has to pay each and every time or that a woman cannot pay for a date.

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
9:10 am

SN: Did ya’ll know that Atlanta is the “Sugar Daddy” capital of America??? I was SHOCKED when I read the blog topic and then read this article, LOL! SOMEBODY is straight up fronting!!!

http://blog.seekingarrangement.com/sugar-daddy-capitals-of-america/

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
9:11 am

MsAtl I totally agree with your 9:09! :-)

The man formerly know as Dan - still...Superior

April 11th, 2013
9:11 am

@Moni

Once that bell is rung, no “decision” in the world can unring it – despite what a ‘preacher’ may try and tell you. So there’s that.

Few men that are dating go out expecting the woman to pay, we do however, love it when they do. Be it first date, or 4000th. It’s a breath of fresh air, and It makes us excited to see her again.

I remember I dated this young lady for quite some time and on our first date she met me at the movies with the tickets in hand; and I got there early trying to do the same thing.

To each his (her) own, I’m just saying, these are things men talk about.

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
9:17 am

Dan you have your beliefs and clearly I have mine. We are both entitled to think however we want. I will agree, to each his (her) own.

What da H?

April 11th, 2013
9:26 am

Interesting so it is only considered a date if the man pays for it. So if a man takes you to something free is it still considered a date?

SlimNu

April 11th, 2013
9:26 am

Morning

This will be interesting as always….for whatever reason, this topic really pits the men against the women.

Coach

April 11th, 2013
9:27 am

Wow. If u ask her out, then pay. Its not really a big deal, however you can see what kind of woman your dealing with if she orders expensive items to take home and expensive drinks to boot. IF you dont want to treat her, then dont ask her out its really that simple. You can always go out with yourself. HA!

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
9:29 am

Great point Coach!!! :-)

Leggs

April 11th, 2013
9:31 am

So if a man takes you to something free is it still considered a date? – Yes, it is.

It’s not so much the money, well I guess it is, but it’s the way the date unfolds. If you ask someone out, then spring on them we will be paying for our own meals, you’re essentially not asking one out on a date. If you can’t afford to pay for the date, then find somewhere to take your “date” that won’t hurt your wallet or date when your wallet can carry you. Same for women because if a woman asks a man out, she should pay.

Leggs

April 11th, 2013
9:33 am

Dating is about reciprocity. It’s not solely the man’s responsibility to ask one out and pay for the date.

The man formerly know as Dan - still...Superior

April 11th, 2013
9:34 am

@Slim

It’s a debate about how people percieve reality. There are those that are stuck in some mish-mash system of beliefs where they don’t really practice any one of them, instead picking and choosing what’s “right” based on how they feel in that moment vs. people that want consistency in thought, action, and deed.

@Moni

I rarely express my “beliefs” in this forum, I only state facts based on anecdotal conversations with my single friends and family members

disco

April 11th, 2013
9:36 am

good morning. my first thought was of martin Lawrence in you so crazy when he said “I said I was taking you to the movies. I didn’t say I was paying for you to get in.”

ex – maybe after three dates you haven’t paid out the dollar value that she places on her goods. maybe you should have had that conversation up front. figure out how much it would cost you? lol.

disco

April 11th, 2013
9:39 am

dan – I don’t have a problem paying my share on a (first) date. it can be a win-win. if you end up not liking him so much it sends a strong message. (dude you ain’t the one. I got this). if you do like him it also sends a message. this message is that I like you and ain’t trying to dig in your pockets. thing is, you can’t predict how dude is reading the message.

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
9:40 am

I see Dan, you believe that what you are saying is fact based on anecdotal conversations with your single friends and family members. Like I said before, you have free to believe what & who you want to believe.

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
9:40 am

*you are free to believe

MissMoni

April 11th, 2013
9:42 am

BBL got a meeting at 10! Have fun!!! :-D

disco

April 11th, 2013
9:42 am

lee – you taking everything to a whole new level. it’s real but it ain’t that real.

SlimNu

April 11th, 2013
9:48 am

Dan – I gotcha, just sitting back in lurksville for the time being. Sometimes it’s good to use the two ears (but in this case, my two eyes) as opposed to my one mouth (in this case, 20 fingers – gotta account for my fanga toes too lol)

And shout outs to ma-dukes since it’s her bday today. I hope you win some big time money off the scratch off’s ya go coming your way ;-)

Coach

April 11th, 2013
9:49 am

You dont ask a woman out to have sex with them, you ask them out because you want their company, and hopefully they want yours. Its low-class to say hey ive taken you on three dates and spent three hundred dollars have sex with me. If thats all you wanted you could have hired a escort and just stayed home. However if you taken her out more than three times and she has not offered to pay at least once, then ummmmm..,… Anyway if a woman insists you take her on expensive dates then you may want to ditch her.

disco

April 11th, 2013
9:54 am

y’all got me doing math this morning. lol.

a guy friend called me yesterday to ask if I want to see 42 tomorrow night. my answer “yep”. now, I was planning on going anyway though I probably would have waited until next week to go on discount day. lol. am I wrong for going on his dime? maybe/maybe not. we’ll be going to a theatre that serves food/liquor. will I eat/drink? yep. I’m thinking this simple trip to the movies will set him back about $50-$75 depending on whether we eat at the theatre or a restaurant. if I take myself to the movie my total will be no more than $20.

Leggs

April 11th, 2013
10:08 am

How could you be wrong for going on his dime. He called and asked you. You said yeah. Enjoy.

Coach ~ unfortunately, some men do ask women out in the hopes of going to bed with them. Maybe not that night, but they’re investing in payback shortly down the road and when it doesn’t happen, they pout and stomp like a little beyotch.

Single and Happy

April 11th, 2013
10:08 am

Disco you wrong :-D but seriously he asked!! nuff said!!

And as far as ordering the most expensive thing on the menu. I the person asking can’t afford it then they shouldn’t take them there! You don’t go to Ruth Chris and order a hamburger!!

Coach

April 11th, 2013
10:16 am

@Single and Happy No you dont go to Ruth Chris and order a Hamburger, but if you go and order two steaks, then something might be wrong. #ijs

@Leggs Yea, but dont be like “Ok I took you to Here and There so I need some tail now, please” is tacky. Sex is going to happen if its going to happen and if she wants it to happen trust and believe she gonna make it happen. Thats the difference in Men and Woman, Men want sex and have to put on a dog and pony show, Woman want sex then their ultra aggressive somehow surfaces…. WOW!

disco

April 11th, 2013
10:16 am

leggs/single – now y’all know I don’t think I’m wrong. lol. of course, I recognize that there are folks who likely think I am. later for them. I’m good.

Leggs

April 11th, 2013
10:18 am

disco ~ nothing wrong with you accepting his invite.

Coach ~ I agree it’s tacky and immature. Just saying it happens.

disco

April 11th, 2013
10:20 am

coach – ooh that dog and pony show. lol. I swear I have seen a grown man beg for some and it is so not a good look. I’m always thinking “dude have some pride. go in the bathroom and handle that. do what you gotta do but don’t beg”. lol. on the flip side, you are right about aggression. let me be in a situation where dude acting like he “tired” and can’t break me off. hmmph.

leggs – yep. it still happens and when grown men who should know better. rephrase, with grown men who DO know better but they just get caught up. lol.

Courtside Seats (With no PSL's added on!!!! )

April 11th, 2013
10:20 am

OK….For the record…. No dude is asking a woman out for the sole purpose of fuggin’ her…… But if we are spending time together and He is spending money on her, then then at some point their interactions go from social to physical to emotional ( in some order or another). If all she wants is a sponsor, then she should make it known just as he should if all he wants is to roll in the sack. Everyone goes into a dating situation looking for something…. To deny that is just dishonest……..