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Will chivalrous expectations last?

I was very happy to make it out to the wonderful Atlanta Film Festival.  If you’ve never been, I would definitely recommend it, even if you are not a huge fan of films.  There was literally something for everyone, including films/shorts on music, art, comedy, history and many other genres of film were represented.  The attendees were as diverse as the films that were featured.

One of the featured shorts that stood out to me in the African American Shorts showcase was Train.

Train (2009) Darius Clark Monroe, Executive Producer

Train (2009) Darius Clark Monroe, Executive Producer

It was a short, yet powerful film about what men go through when they have to decide how to handle difficult situations in regards to chivalry.  I am being intentionally vague as not to give away the entire premise, but it made me think hard about what single women expect from men.

If a man is not interested in a woman romantically, we still would expect some sort of chivalry from them.  With all the confusing gender roles that can create dating and relationship issues, how will things shift? Will women continue to expect chivalry?  If there is a need to step in and take on a protector role, what would you think of a man who does not consider it his duty to act?

When we are all learning the “new gender roles”  how do you think we will progress in what we expect from one another?  I know none of us have crystal balls, but what is your educated guess considering what you have seen and heard?

537 comments Add your comment

Kym

April 27th, 2010
8:18 am

Good Morning All,

Okay I read this topic twice and I am still not sure what it is you are getting at Wisey, but I will take a stab at a answer. First..when I think of chivalry I don’t just think of doors being open or pulling out chairs. I think in terms of respect for women period. That means not refering to to women as tricks, garden tools, itches and any of the other colorful words and phrase used. I know women used these words toward each other and I expect better of us too..but I really..really..really hold men(excuse..those who call themselves real men) to the fire..regarding this kind of talk. But considering the current trend and the fact that the future(current young people) are about as bright as tree stumps..I would think that chivalry is going the way of the dinosaur.

Good Guy Getting Greater (4G) - betta den ur 3G

April 27th, 2010
8:22 am

Good Tuesday Morning!

WD, IMHO no chivalry will not last, because women (not all) are killing it. Not saying in the next year the gender roles will be completely reversed, but at the same token it is certainly headed in that direction.

It’s totally fair to expect chivalry of men whether romantically interested or not, but I say set your expectation lower as the years go by. Me personally, still have my “old fashioned colored glasses” on which were given to me by my parents (both well into their 70’s). I will still continue to act as chivalrous as I’ve been taught, raised, brought up to act, but even for me it gets hard in today’s society. Case In Point: Yesterday, held open the door for a young lady and she stopped short…walked through and I followed (not her but thru the door) and she bursts out with “I hope you don’t expect to get my number just because you did that…” to wipe my early morning smile right off. :-/ Nowadays it seems women (not all) don’t even value or come close to appreciating a chivalrous man. Will women continue to expect chivalry? Yes, but like I said I think it’ll slowly decrease over time…What do I think of a man who does not consider it his duty to act? If I were living in my parents day and time I’d say “that’s a no brainer of course it’s his duty to act”, but now I can’t really say I blame a guy who decides not to consider it his duty, because it’s not the women of the world are making it any easier for him to do so.

This post makes me think of a youtube video journal this young girl kept and it should still be up called “Chivalry is dead” and she explained exactly why in my opinion it’s become harder and less likely for a male to act accordingly, because now women (not all) allow it. She stated in her words, if you let them niggas get away with that foolishness, then they think they can run it on every chick in the world. If all women expected men to act chivalrously, then bet your bottom dollar you would see a lot more of it going around because they know to get the girl, they gotta act that certain way, but then again I can’t put all the blame on women, because when men see other men treating women unchivalrously and getting away with it, then they see fit that they can do the same.

To me it’s just all about how we treat each other with respect and ain’t a lot of it going around these days. So my bottom line is. Chivalry will always be around, but there will just be less and less of it as time passes.

Lady J-Baby put the work in like a champion......

April 27th, 2010
8:33 am

Kym I read it twice too…..Chivalry isn’t dead and romance either….It is harder to find but once you have it don’t abuse it or take it for granted…..stay humble…..I always say Thank You……A person, man, or woman doest have to go out their way for anyone but when they do it is a great feeling of security and I appraciate the little priceless acts…..helping me put on my coat or adjust my chair for my comfort…..Thank You and the acts will continue without thought…..

Good Guy Getting Greater (4G) - betta den ur 3G

April 27th, 2010
8:33 am

First..when I think of chivalry I don’t just think of doors being open or pulling out chairs. I think in terms of respect for women period. That means not refering to to women as tricks, garden tools, itches and any of the other colorful words and phrase used.

@Kym – I’m glad you brought that up, cuz some people can’t read between the two…I’ve heard some guys open the door for a lady around their group of friends and seem totally “chivalrous”, then go back to talking with their boys about “Mayne that b**** this, mayne that b**** that, she ain’t nuttin but a h**”….chivalrous gestures ain’t worth a penny without the respect behind it.

Lady J-Baby put the work in like a champion......

April 27th, 2010
8:36 am

Kym i thought about the younger generation too not that I am much older but their values and our values and self pride is different….I have work with young adults for 9 years now and from early 2000 to currently it is getting worse…..In early 2000 they wanted to be smart and different and had manners, etc, now it is draining motivating the unmotivated young people…..so it is sad to say that yeah over time it may disappear bc when you don’t know you just don’t know….

LadyAJ

April 27th, 2010
8:37 am

Good Morning All,

I personally always expect a black man to be a gentleman, I don’t always find that to be true, but I expect it. Growing up with my father in the house I saw how he treated my mother and both of his daughters.

With that said, I agree with Good Guy and I think women (younger) do not expect or demanad to be treated well. I was in DC once and the train was overly crowded but I happened to be seated and in walks an older lady. I saw no man get up to give his seat. So after being amazed at all these young men sitting and allowing a woman, especially an older woman to stand amazed me. So I gave up my seat happily and she took it. I say that to say you have to be taught to do the right thing. So I believe the better question is are we teaching are young men and young women to have hight expectations?

Good Guy Getting Greater (4G) - betta den ur 3G

April 27th, 2010
8:41 am

So I believe the better question is are we teaching are young men and young women to have hight expectations?

@LadyAJ – Well put…foundation gotta start somewhere…but then I think is it really the teachers who fail or the young students that just are too hardheaded to listen to the wisdom about chivalry?

Good Guy Getting Greater (4G) - betta den ur 3G

April 27th, 2010
8:42 am

also I admire you for giving up your seat for that older lady, I’m sure it was much appreciated, but shame on them brothas….smdh….ugh

Lady J-Baby put the work in like a champion......

April 27th, 2010
8:46 am

I would think that social act of teaching starts at home…….parents lay the foundation IMO…..

LadyAJ

April 27th, 2010
8:48 am

Well thank you Good Guy. And I think you are also correct that these young people are too hardheaded to listen! I tell another story when I was at my brother’s birthday party last year. We were all watching a video of his life created by his 16 year old son. I soon noticed that I as well as my parents and several older adults were standing to watch and all the teenagers were sitting. Now one I don’t know how I was the only one to catch this, and two my parents are well into their 70s also. So I of course made every single person sitting down get up and let the older adults sit. Now my question is Why would you as a 16 year old see your grandparents standing and you continue to sit? Why did I have to make them do the right thing?

anonymousella

April 27th, 2010
8:48 am

eh … i only EXPECT chivalry from my man. then it’s a gesture of love. i expect pragmatic politeness from everyone else.

for example, if you see me carrying an awkward box with both hands, i expect:

* my man to take the box
* my friends (male or female) to offer to carry it and/or help me with the box
* Random Dude or Random Broad to grab the door

that said, i think gender roles only become a problem when you’re expectations are incompatible. chivalry is a turn-off when a man is pushy about it.

Good Guy Getting Greater (4G) - betta den ur 3G

April 27th, 2010
8:51 am

@Lady J – yea that is somewhat true, but not everybody was raised in a happy home with plenty values like mine. and even on top of that I think it has to do with life experiences together with upbringing, because I know a guy who’s literally never had a stable, constant parent/guardian around to show him how to be chivalrous and he’s probably the five star general against the fight for chivalry now & on the other hand i’ve met guys who’s parents have lovely, picture perfect marriages and have set what seems to be a model example, but they still disrespect and treat women like crap daily (if not by the hour) and have no sense of chivalry whatsoever. So I still think the teaching is only one part of the puzzle.

kinderbabe--22 days and counting! woohoo!

April 27th, 2010
8:53 am

i’ll just be reading today. have a good one everybody!:)

Dan

April 27th, 2010
8:53 am

@anon

Pushy chilvary?

Please explain/elaborate

Lady J-Baby put the work in like a champion......

April 27th, 2010
8:56 am

we need to get paid more money for our social job of teaching values and respect, it isn’t compensated……and much less respected bc the 1st thing out their smart mouths is “you are not my mama”…..point taken nevertheless good guy……

Lady J-Baby put the work in like a champion......

April 27th, 2010
8:56 am

Hey KB!!!!!!

Morrus

April 27th, 2010
8:59 am

Vote out the incumbents and start over

Lady J-Baby put the work in like a champion......

April 27th, 2010
8:59 am

someone explain what “the new gender roles” are???? Does that mean I don’t allow the kind acts???

Good Guy Getting Greater (4G) - betta den ur 3G

April 27th, 2010
9:00 am

chivalry is a turn-off when a man is pushy about it.

@anon – that’s true too. EX: like if you see a woman clearly having no problem with some bags, don’t rush over and insist you help her, but kindly ask and if she says no, then respectfully wish her a good day. but to just be pushy about it like “c’mon im just tryna help, i really insist, im not letting you walk to your car with all that by yourself, i refuse to let you do it” THAT is pushy chivalry and it screams insecurity and comes off creepy. Be kind enough to help, but be respectful enough to respect a woman’s wishes and that right there is more chivalrous than the act of helping her carry the bags in the first place. It’s just about thoughtfulness and respect. period.

Good Guy Getting Greater (4G) - betta den ur 3G

April 27th, 2010
9:03 am

bc the 1st thing out their smart mouths is “you are not my mama”

@Lady J – you are soooooooo right about that one…ugh it gets on my nerves i’m just like “ight im tryna help YOU out” lol

anonymousella

April 27th, 2010
9:05 am

@dan two examples. from two different dudes.

1. we pull up to a parking spot. he turns the car off and opens his door. i go to open the door to get out.

dude: “close the door.”
me: what?
him: “close the door. that’s my job.”

then strolls his way over to my door to open it from the outside. really? you’re going to flex your man muscle over a car door? and then take your sweet time coming to the passenger side to open it. man, we could have been inside already.

2. i had some ikea furniture to assemble. i <3 putting stuff together. i was looking forward to the task when i bought this stuff, really. so i take everything out of the box and start reading the directions.

then boyfriend: "i'll do it."
me: "it's okay, i can do it."
him (insistent tone): "i'll do it."
me (confused face because he is being insistent): "i can put a desk together."
him: "let me do it."
me: "i actually like putting furniture together. so, i got this."
him: *pouty face.*

i mean really? fussing because i want to put my own furniture together? the tone wasn't "do you want help." it was "i am the man, i will do it."

Lady J-Baby put the work in like a champion......

April 27th, 2010
9:09 am

yesteday I simply asked a senior to remove his hat from his head in the building not only bc it is a social norm but it is also a rule……it turned into a battle……I mean really a large part not all but has no regards for respect or rules…..so if the parents are failing, the teachers are losing the battle, who helps direct the lost generation……..the 90s babies are a tough breed….they ain’t never scared!

Lady J-Baby put the work in like a champion......

April 27th, 2010
9:09 am

yesterday that is…..

THE INFAMOUS DK AKA LEROY LOVING

April 27th, 2010
9:11 am

Chivalry has turned into convinient chivalry. Meaning most babes now a days only want it when its convinient for them or if they are in the mood for it. In todays “I dont need a man to do anything for me” society.. How can it last? As a man you can only keep doing what you were raised to do and teach your children the same but chivalry has two parts.. The man part and the woman part..

Good Guy Getting Greater (4G) - betta den ur 3G

April 27th, 2010
9:14 am

but chivalry has two parts.. The man part and the woman part..

@DK – Amen to that

abc

April 27th, 2010
9:17 am

If you desire chivalrous behavior, then be a lady. The chivalrous will disregard the psycho beeyotch just the same as a lady will disregard the discourteous cad.

Chivalry really is nothing more than good manners, presented in a spirit of respectfulness. One must earn respect; without respect, the chivalrous will display simple good manners, at best.

All that said, good manners are going the way of the dodo bird, for male and female, young and old. It’s a shame, people don’t feel obligated to behave politely anymore.

Jaye

April 27th, 2010
9:17 am

Women can be “alluring ladies,” with an emphasis on the “ladies.” Why should women expect men to practice chivalry in any expected tradition when so many of them don’t exhibit ladyhood? Even some of today’s moms encourage sexiness over self respect with their daughters. Women fall for often-unbecoming “slut fashions.” They practice slut behavior and body language,modeled by cheesy celebrities and reality TV “stars,” that send messages about who they are, as well as their expectations of how people should treat them. No wonder boys and young men are confused.

THE INFAMOUS DK AKA LEROY LOVING

April 27th, 2010
9:18 am

Lady AJ – it does go to show how you were raised and I have come to the conclusion that some folks werent raised like I was. I was raised to be a southern gentleman.. If I had my hat on in a building my Mom or Dad would probably smack it off. My Mother never opened a door while I was around and didnt allow my sister to either. I dont know I just do what I know is best and let it start with me and hopefully someone will see it and make them wanna do whats right.. Oh and my son already holds the door for the ladies at 4.. I find that little man chivalry does a lot..

THE INFAMOUS DK AKA LEROY LOVING

April 27th, 2010
9:20 am

Jaye – Well alright.

ABC – Here here!

anonymousella

April 27th, 2010
9:23 am

@abc nah. chivalry dates back to the days of knighthood and has more than a few “weaker as the weaker / inferior sex” undertones to it. good manners are something else.

jcs

April 27th, 2010
9:24 am

I consider myself a gentleman and kind dude….but I’m not a sucker. For example, I’m habitually late for work but I dont care how pressed for time I am, if I’m ahead or slightly behind a woman, I will open the door for her and wait for her to walk thru. However, when I ride public transportation I only give up my seat to mothers and older women. The chick with the 6″ stilletos who think she’s all of that can stand and hold on the the rail.

Professor...

April 27th, 2010
9:26 am

Hola!

I really believe in chivalry and I wish more people would teach/train their sons and daughters on this matter. Both parties play a role. I almost feel like there should be classes on chivalry and etiquette. I will be honest I get sick and tired of folks not knowing how to act, behave or be the recipent of a good deed. Not long ago some guys held the door open for myself and this other lady. The lady mumbled to me as we went in these fools kill me trying to look at our azzes. Now did those guys look? IDK. As for the etiquette part, I get tired of people not knowing how to order, or eat properly.

Blak

April 27th, 2010
9:27 am

Chivalry is not dead at all but it is being lost. Myself personally will always be chivalrous because that was the way that I was raised. I treat women the way that I want my mother, aunties, grandmothers, cousins and etc to be treated. With that being said some of the women that I go out with are surprised when I open the car door for them, pull out their chair, help remove and put on their coat etc because they are not use to that from other men. As far as the younger generation they do not know what it means to be chivalrous. I have no kids but when I coach my basketball team, I always teach, show and expect my boys to be chivalrous especially since majority of them come from single parent homes.

THE INFAMOUS DK AKA LEROY LOVING

April 27th, 2010
9:36 am

Blak – Where are you coaching?

Melo

April 27th, 2010
9:36 am

Good morning!

How can u have chilvary(respect for women) when the women are succumbing to and being used by BET,with women busy rubbing their booteys on men in videos?

Those images u call “entertainement” have contributed to the demnise of respect for women in general.And then u have families who aint raising their kids right…..
Chivalry is respect and doing something kind for the women without expecting a return.Consider that example of the guy who threw in his $40.00 in yesterday’s MIA and didnt want to go further. Paying that tab for that lady friend wld have been a gesture in chilvary but instead what does he do?? Pout! :lol: Over $15.00…???

Chilvary is dead and uall women are contributing to its demise…selling out for trifle dollars!

Good Morning!

Raqi

April 27th, 2010
9:37 am

Chivalry is not dead and it will never die. However it may not be performed as openly and as freely as before.

The way things are today more guys view the common act of chivalry based on the woman being deserving of it as opposed to the man just being a man. And more women these days are of the mindset I don’t need a man to do “this” for me.

But my thing is why let a few ungrateful women keep you from being the man that you know you are. If those women are not grateful for your act of chivalry then count them out and keep being who you are. And women we cannot pick and choose when we want a man to be a man. Don’t reject disallow one man’s act of kindness but then expect your man to come all the way with it. That’s unfair.

Certain things/acts/behaviors just cannot be turned on and off. Either you have it or you don’t. If he is not real with and just performing on your stage for the moment you best believe when things aren’t going so well with you his performance will be lacking. But if he chivalrous by nature he will be that way during the good and the bad times.

Professor...

April 27th, 2010
9:42 am

My etiquette and chivalry pet peeves:

1. Women- please be knowledgeable on your role when a guy is being a gentleman. If he gives up his seat, open the door or gently hold your arm as you walk up or down steps say thank you.

2. Men- please stand when a woman gets to the table especially if it is a formal gathering and don’t forget to pull out her chair and allow her to sit first.

3. Both sexes- if you pretend to be this knowledgeable being of all things nice and classy stop talking with your mouth full.

4. Both sexes- Stop saying you like sushi and is a sushi connoisseur and all you know is a California roll. —à Please learn to use chopsticks properly.

5. Men- If you are meeting a lady on a date at the actual function. Please make sure you walk her to her car.

6. Both sexes- If you ask you ought to pay. Yes if you suggest the date you should be prepared to pick up the ticket.

7. Both sexes-If you are asked out. Let the party that asked you out decide on where you all will go. If he says Chili’s than, go to Chili’s and don’t say I want Cheesecake Factory. Why not ask him out the next time and take him where you want to go?

8. Both sexes- Dress for the date. If you are going to Piedmont leave the Yves St. Laurent’s stilettos at home. Men leave the cufflinks. If you decide to go and you are already dressed up peel some of that junk off.

9. Both sexes- Stop talking about what your mommy and daddy did for you. Ladies I got news for you Mister ain’t your daddy. Fellas, Ms. Lady is not your mama so stop expecting us to be.

10. Just have fun and read up on chivalry and etiquette if you were never taught. You can google the rules while you are playing around at work.

Professor...

April 27th, 2010
9:46 am

Melo,

It is funny you mentioned the $40 this morning. I did not have a chance to post this, but when I mentioned dining in large parties. Usually if I am invited out and there are 20 people in the group I may know eight or less. So, I don’t know all of my friends friends…I just know the B-day girl and a few others.

AmazonRed™

April 27th, 2010
9:47 am

Morning all –

Let’s see…this new brand of dude doesn’t mind being supported by a woman.

He doesn’t mind being chased…or even encourages it.

His expecations of women are high…while the expecations of himself are low.

He hasn’t seen a positive example of commitment…and therefore has no model of yet to emulate.

This of course, doesn’t mean all men are like this. But there is this new brand of dude out there that I do wonder if they rock panties just like I do. :lol:

Thanks with a Smile

April 27th, 2010
9:47 am

While dating and during my daily activiy I have always acknowledged and praised the man with a smile and a “thank you” for opening my door, offering an arm, and helping with my jacket. With that being said, more often than not, men are almost seemingly unsure and a little embarrassed to be chivalrous. I don’t know if it’s the influence of music that get’s the most air play or just the lack of open and honest dialogue between the sexes that is slowly killing the romance and kind gestures but I for my part will always say “thank you” and if he is lacking or unsure on how to act when interacting with me I will have no problem mentioning kindly “i really appreciate you getting the door for me”. I have to shout out “Good Guy Getting Greater (4G) – betta den ur 3G” the person you held the door for was def not a woman but she may be one when she grows up. LOL

dd

April 27th, 2010
9:49 am

Why do women deserve to have the door held open for them? Or to go first? Are they not strong enough to carry their own boxes? Dang, this is quite confusing.

THE INFAMOUS DK AKA LEROY LOVING

April 27th, 2010
9:50 am

ARED – Ive been saying the new “Swag” is for dudes to be Bums and chicks to take care of them or be their enablers.. The question is.. Who’s the Mack?

Seems like thats what chicks want now a days.. A dude that will cook, clean and be home waiting on them when they get off work.. Talking bout role reversal..

Professor...

April 27th, 2010
9:51 am

If you desire chivalrous behavior, then be a lady.

abc How would a guy know if I am a lady or not in a brief 1/2 second encounter at the door? Or if we are on a crowded train?

THE INFAMOUS DK AKA LEROY LOVING

April 27th, 2010
9:53 am

Prof – We can spot the ladies in a sea of wanna be wh0res.

Melo

April 27th, 2010
9:53 am

@Proff!

Thats an awesome list! good job.

U truly were professorial there,hope they’re listening!

What i have come to realise is that some pple dont have respectable elders in their fams,to guide them on some grown up men/women things.

This forum helps!

Blak

April 27th, 2010
9:53 am

I coached in church league

Lady J-Baby put the work in like a champion......

April 27th, 2010
9:54 am

it does go both ways and I practice it…..just being kind to humans period it doesn’t matter of romantic gains and lost…..this is something that is within to do without thought for some….

Professor...

April 27th, 2010
9:55 am

@DK some of these men have laid around these wanna be wh0res, so what’s wrong with holding the door especially since many have been in their homes and entered their bodies? Some have even left evidence (children) of the encounters so my thing is don’t start knocking these wh0res now.

Lady J-Baby put the work in like a champion......

April 27th, 2010
9:55 am

dk i may have to agree a bit wierd to me too…..but some like it that way….

Dan

April 27th, 2010
9:57 am

@dd

It’s not about “deserve”. It’s about simple courtesy. Practice it, or don’t.

@Prof

I pull the halfway standing move, getting all the way up on these knees is difficult.

But good list