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City & State or ZIP Tonight, this weekend, May 5th...
City & State or ZIP
City & State or ZIP Tonight, this weekend, May 5th...
City & State or ZIP

Reaction to the ‘Nightline’ debate on successful black women’s romantic woes

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Sherri Shepard (left) and VH1 star Jacque Reid represented for the ladies on ABC ‘Nightlline: Face-Off” debate, ‘Why can't a successful black woman find a man?’, It was taped earlier this month (April 2010) in Decatur, Ga (ABC/Guy D'Alema)

I hoped you watched ABC’s Nightline last night! I always find it fascinating how much production goes into a piece that airs. Of course, they have to edit a great deal but I think they highlighted the key points of the discussion!  The debate that aired last night hit on a couple of interesting points.

I recall Hill Harper saying that 95% of professional women want the top 5% of men who they see as their counterparts.  I have my oh so brilliant Love Squad on deck to answer our own face-off questions:

Is it a misconception that Atlanta women are looking for highly educated, successful men?  Or is there a grain of truth to this? Considering the many single professional black women I know and meet in the city,  I honestly can not think of many that only date corporate/executive, pro ball players. What do you think?

Bren Herrera, 30, Atlanta. Education:  Post-Graduate.  Industry: Entertainment

“I’ve seen a plethora of women that seek that prototypical man–the baller, the pro player, the actor, singer, etc… I’ve had conversations with these “tangibly” driven women.  Sherri underscored this point, from the other side when she mentioned the man at Home Depot whom didn’t call her back because she was on TV–he didn’t want to deal with the things he perceived come along with the entertainment personalities. As a woman, I feel her on that. At the end of the day, I’ll subscribe to the cliché: I just want a good man. A man that I can first trust at ALL times, not just when he’s behaving well. A man that extends himself, is open to learning new things and is willing to compromise. A man that goes to God for answers and not his single boys that can potentially lead him in the wrong direction (because we all know men are just as vulnerable as women are!)

Craig T. Taylor, 34.  Sandy Springs, GA. Occupation: Founder and Editorial Director of Indakno.com, LLC.

Women should not be looking for a man.  That is where they fail.  Whosoever findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD. Proverbs 18:22.  Just make yourself available as a woman and the right man will find you.  Position is relative. I think women just generally want a “good man”.  Loyal, honest, respectful, responsible, passionate, and loves God.  What else can you ask for in a “good man”.  If a man has these traits, it does not matter if he is making 25k or 125k.  He will always be doing the BEST that he can and trying to do better.  Any person that is looking for someone to match them equally is looking for a boring relationship and may as well be with themselves.  It does not take two corporate executives to have a successful relationship.  It takes two people who love, respect, and has an undeniable passion about each other to make it work.

Dr. Tartt responds to my Love Squad question: Do you believe there are special hurdles Atlanta professionals face in finding a partner?

Your turn to weigh in my insightful readers: Professional Atlanta singles certainly enjoy the good life, but have we lost sight of what is truly important like family, raising healthy children, and building good relationships?

925 comments Add your comment

hotlanta

April 22nd, 2010
7:45 am

This topic is as racist as it can be and has been talked about to death. Where is the seminars about white woman on how they meet men they don’t know and marry them within 24 hours. I saw this last night while watching Extra where this woman was proposed to on “The Bachelor”, they didn’t get married but she found some guy she had known for only 24 hours and married him. Brtittany Spears as well married some guy and it lasted a week and she also married K-Fed when she knew that Shar Jackson was carrying his child. Where is the seminar about white women moral and value system. First black women were criticized for having too many babies and ot getting married. Now they are way ahead of black men in obtaining degrees, having less kids and getting criticized for it as if they have to APOLOGIZE for it. Our ancestors fought for them to get an education and live well and because they are not married it is as if they are being punished for it. Steve Harvey needs to sit his chrome dome, Cab Calloway suit wearing,serial married behind down.What is wrong with single folks enjoying the good life. It seems that once a person get married and have kids it is all gone. The reason why black women work hard at taking care of ourselves because we have seen tooooo many of our mothers, grandmothers and aunts who have been with a man for years and if he dies or leave the house they are left with nothing. A lot of them didn’t know how to take care of themselves becase they let thiis man handle everything. Yes I raised my daughters to be smart, intelligent women, take care of themselves to be a PRODUCTIVE member of society and they/I do not make any apologies for me. A smart man WANTS a smart woman. Ask Stedman.

PrincessNik

April 22nd, 2010
8:01 am

Steve Harvey needs to sit his chrome dome, Cab Calloway suit wearing,serial married behind down

:lol: that made me laugh out loud

I didn’t watch so I’ll probably sit back on this one.

anonymousella

April 22nd, 2010
8:02 am

95% of professional women want the same 5% of men. But those professional women are maybe 7% of all black women. 43% of black women aren’t married. I promise you most of those women are not degreed-up and holding desk jobs.

Secondly: why *shouldn’t* an educated person want the same? Rare is the society where people of different statuses partner up. Commonality is the basis for a strong relationship. And no, race isn’t enough in common. Seriously: outside of sports and entertainment, how many people do you know married up or down? All of the married people I know married within their class and I am about to.

I can’t see how or why black women are expected or bashed, even, for doing so.

That said, I think many “successful” sisters prioritized education and career at the expense of manhunting. At 35, it is hard to find a single black man who doesn’t have ex-wife and/or kids baggage. So, I think many black women are opting out of marriage because they are not feeling the pool.

(Aside: It is hard out here for an atheist.)

Kym--Happy Earth Day!!

April 22nd, 2010
8:06 am

Good Morning All,Chanting… I will not hijack the topic..I will not hijack the topic…

I do not believe that professional singles have lost sight of anything. I think there are those singles who’s sights are set in a different direction. Yes family is important, building relationships.. important…but as a parent I would never tell anyone they must have..or they should have a child or get married to truly be intuned with what is really important in life. Rule #1..What is good for one..is not always good for all. We really have to stop trying to put folks into these neat little boxes and expecting everyone to conform.

Kym--Happy Earth Day!!

April 22nd, 2010
8:08 am

LOL @ anonymousella

Andrea

April 22nd, 2010
8:19 am

Hotlanta nailed it. This show was one of the stupidest displays of foolishness I have seen in a long time. And yes, Steve needs to sit down somewhere!

firstborn40

April 22nd, 2010
8:22 am

my exeperience in reference to the dating scene in atlanta for single women 40 – 60 years old is that it almost doesn’t exisits at least it doesn’t for me and my friends, we are easy on the eyes range from 48 – 50 (don’t look our age), are fun and cool chicks (not cougars!) to be around.

there are more times than not that we go out clubbing and can’t even get a conversation from guys. how are you going to move towards anything if we aren’t even communicating! some men seem to be back on the scheme of how many knotches they can put on their bed post…they aren’t interested in your well being, just how well you can be in bed.

i would have thought that men in this age bracket would have gotten it by now, some are caught up on the “gold digger” syndrome thinking that all a woman wants to do is get in his pocket…but what is it that he wants to do…within LESS than 24 hours of meeting you and then wants to complain if you ask him for anything…

i would think at this age that men would be looking for someone to spend the rest of their lives with. they wait until they have health problems and are older to want to settle with someone…or have them as a constant love toy…

i am not opposed to meeting men online, but they too flake out after a while…who knows what the motives of men are! they say they want a strong woman, one who cares, one who has their back, but they dont’ recognize it when they see it, and they don’t take time to nuture relationships to further find out…it is all a flash in the bucket and the hot and heavy telephone calling will last about a week or less and then you dont’ hear anything from them….

i can’t tell you what the answer is in this great divide…but i wish that men who are looking for a relationship with someone who is down to earth, open, passionate, and intelligent…please tell me where to find you!

firstborn40

April 22nd, 2010
8:25 am

wanted to clarify…clubs aren’t the only interactions we have….church, community events, festivals, etc. we vary venues – the interests just doesn’t seem to be there from men…

DSP

April 22nd, 2010
8:25 am

I agree with “anonymousella”. People who are educated do not
use terms like “degreed up”. Postsecondary education in this
country is becoming a joke, and anyone who is assisting in
this degredation, regardless of gender or race, needs to be
called on it. In a previous forum, there were all of these so-
called “educated” professionals talking about themselves, and
you should have seen all of the spelling errors in their posts.

Morrus

April 22nd, 2010
8:27 am

Vote out the incumbents and start over

24karatga

April 22nd, 2010
8:28 am

I agree with everyone so far. and I am glad that I am early responding on this posting..
I am soooo over this topic. There are far more other important issues in the media..this is so racist….Why are they talking about Black women not finding Black men..successful. The term successful is interesting in its self. We are all successful if we graduated from high school, college..own a home.. financially stable. THese are accomplishments many of our grandparents never were able to experience. Its not anything special anymore…it is just the way of life, these are things we must do.
Besides that..Steve…you are not the Love Guru and anyone that continues to follow your ” way of doing things” will never get married. PPl have to stop saying I and me..I will admit there are times in life where you overindulge in your career…but dont take too long because you may end up like Jacque….older..lonely..not married without children.. desprately seeking all these things at almost 40. Looking back at your life…you may be a little sad. I am only 26 and my parents have been married for 44 years, women who are successful throw it around. Remember when women didnt like men who
“bragged” about their accomplishments,well it is the same the other way around. Even on the segment, Sherri said she told the guy she met what she did..On TV…Strike 1…I knew he wasnt going to call after she said that !
But in conclusion I am not buying this crap. Half of the women in the audience were overweight..excessive weave wearing women. If you dont want a partner who has a ” belly” then go to the gym and work on your physique..and there is nothing wrong with a few extensions but allow your natural beauty to show.

DSP

April 22nd, 2010
8:28 am

BTW – This new type of “subject” in the AA community
qualifies as a new genre – “R3 reality TV”.

R3 = Religious Racist Rhetoric.

DSP

April 22nd, 2010
8:31 am

24karatga @ 8:28 am – Ditto for myself. I didn’t
wach a SECOND of this mess. Nightline has gone
downhill with the departure of Ted Koppel.

DSP

April 22nd, 2010
8:31 am

Excuse me – I meant “watch”. Typo.

Open Minded Male

April 22nd, 2010
8:32 am

Have y’all considered dating white guys or asian guys or hispanic guys or indian guys? That possibility is completely missing from this discussion. You never know what you might find if you keep an open mind. Just a though, ladies. :-)

Lady J-all over the place

April 22nd, 2010
8:32 am

I didn’t watch it………no comment for the topic either…….I am having a very random morning and this weekend looks like it will be random as well…….how bout where ever the wind blows kind of mood…… :)

Hey PK!!!! Good Morning All!

I have this mifi wifi hotspot connection and I am confused as why it won’t connect to my laptop…..I am by a school, hospital, and college and it won’t pick up any wireless signals…….sigh! LOL

Lady J-all over the place

April 22nd, 2010
8:34 am

Open minded male my conversations with white guys here recently have become lighter meaning I am not seeing color throughout the conversation and I was like WOW he is good people to chat with….It was once upon a time thinking of a white male would make my skin crawl….now have I embraced dating one not sure but the convo has gotten better….go figure! LOL

William

April 22nd, 2010
8:36 am

I can not help but think that the 5% of men that these professional women want are players. Why wouldnt they be players. They can pick and choose. I would. Why get married when my bedroom would never be empty with educated good looking sex partners.

Professor

April 22nd, 2010
8:37 am

hotlanta you said it best, I agree and you added some great jokes in chrome dome…lol :grin:

Hola everybody!

The Truth

April 22nd, 2010
8:38 am

The reason why most black women aren’t married is because they’re nutty as squirrel poop. True, black women have to take alot off of black men, but they let the 30% of the black men that aren’t any good mess it up for the 70% that are. Plus, black women are TOO PICKY. There’s nothing wrong with having expectations from a man, but wanting a man that’s better than you is unrealistic. It doesn’t matter anyway, cause all the wrong kind of men attact the black women anyway, with the women expecting they can change him anyway

Po Blackman

April 22nd, 2010
8:38 am

It is funny that all I see is hate. I was married to a blackwoman that thought I had to live by her rules. She wanted to be the man in the relationship. I am not saying that I am perfect. But you know nobody’s perfect but when you have your love of your life always putting down your family and all of your friends or just get mad at the smallest things. It is hard to live a happy life. That is all we want. My ex made more than I did but thought all my money should go to make her happy and her money was to make her happy. So I guess that I was to be broke and be a mild and meek person but she could do what ever she wanted and I could not say anything. That is why I am giving up on women. All of them and just make myself happy………..

Lady J-all over the place

April 22nd, 2010
8:38 am

hey professor!

Professor

April 22nd, 2010
8:39 am

Open Minded Male Pardon me, but what is your race?

Fabulosity

April 22nd, 2010
8:40 am

“…some men seem to be back on the scheme of how many knotches they can put on their bed post…they aren’t interested in your well being”

And since Atlanta is the “thirsty chic” capitol of the world, these men know they can act like that.

Simple Man!!!

April 22nd, 2010
8:41 am

I find it amusing that in this town,there are women complaining that they can’t find suitable men……I happen to be an educated Black man,42 years old and divorced ( 2years) after 16 years of marriage. I have two wonderful children and a 6 figure income, but often get dimissed by these ‘high quailty” women because I place my children and their needs first in my life…. I am starting to believe that the problem these women are having begins and ends in the mirror….

Open Minded Male

April 22nd, 2010
8:42 am

I’m white.

Professor

April 22nd, 2010
8:42 am

Hey Lady J!

I will probably lurk a little I was tired of this topic last year, last month, last week, yesterday and now we get a re-play, are you kidding me??? :???: :roll: :evil: :roll: :???: :evil:

PrincessNik

April 22nd, 2010
8:43 am

Hey Lady J!

Lil mama has her first teeball game Saturday, she doing great so far, they put her in the line up to bat clean up, and she is handling first base with ease.

Okay, now back to the topic LOL

Fabulosity

April 22nd, 2010
8:43 am

“People who are educated do not use terms like “degreed up”.”

Says the clown who just lambasted “educated people” for their typos on blogs (gotta love the spell-check police) yet commits the same atrosity just a few posts later. Mmmm hmmm

PrincessNik

April 22nd, 2010
8:43 am

I will probably lurk a little I was tired of this topic last year, last month, last week, yesterday and now we get a re-play, are you kidding me???

exxxxxxactly!

Ralph Ferguson

April 22nd, 2010
8:44 am

I don’t think most Black Women want a good black man. I think they want what they want when they want, how they want it and when they get tired of it they want to discard it.

Professor

April 22nd, 2010
8:45 am

@Open Minded Male-Thanks for answering and welcome to the blog! BTW to answer your question about dating outside of the race. I actually attract plenty of men in general all races. To be honest in college males of certain races turned me off because they were more persistant. What I try to do is look at the person and not the race, however that is difficult to do in the south.

:grin:

Be Real

April 22nd, 2010
8:46 am

Black women need to do what black men are doing; date outside of the race. There are not enough black men for every black woman. It’s just that simple. Enough of these waste of time forums on the obvious.

AtlBlkMan

April 22nd, 2010
8:47 am

This topic is a joke. I watched last night. Sherri Shepard? For real? As big as she is? I doubt Hill would actually go out with her, you saw his reaction when she said they were in the same place and how about now? The women in the audience? Overweight with fake hair and nails. Maybe if you spent less time at the table and nail salon and more time in the gym, you might at least be able to attract a Man. As a poster stated earlier, don’t be an Atheist, you are just about shut out. I love how Black folks are all about the Church and God’s Blessings yet we as a people have some of the highest out of wedlock births, highest incarceration rates, unemployment numbers and yet we keep thinking God will find a way for us. Ever notice in Atlanta that the person with the nicest suits, cars and homes and bank account seems to always be the Pastor? Doesn’t anyone find that just a little strange?

LivingWellDCH

April 22nd, 2010
8:49 am

That show was was ridiculous. It made a mockery of a serious discussion. First of all, Steve Harvey is not an “expert” on [whatever he self-appointed himself to be an expert on--male relationships/male psyche?]. Secondly, there were a few comedians gabbing and also, for “Nightline”–a NEWS program–to do such a poor, light treatment was journalistically lacking.

IF they were only going to show a 30 minute segment, it should have highlighted pertinent facts and stats, not what they showed, which was almost minstrel. Sherri and weaves? c’mon now. There are education inequities, down-low brothers, colorism issues. Black women mostly just want men to be men–good fathers, husbands, loving, etc.

And that “israel” guy (who wrote the Denzel principle”) is part of the issue: he’s on a national news program and he shows up dressed like a hoodrat. Who wants a “man” who dresses like that or doesn’t have the sense to at least put on a sports coat and nice slacks?

Terrible treatment and journalistically useless waste of air time. More later. This topic will be better explored in ‘Living Well Despite Catchin’ H***’…an upcoming book that REALLY deals with all of Black women’s concerns–health and social issues. And celebrates how many Black women ARE living well, in spite of… Written by same author of the previous AJC article “Single and looking beats empty marriage.”

As a 50+ Black women–now engaged to be married [yippee!!]–it is an important topic; too bad ABC News [likely] gave in to Harvey and gave it such a BET-like treatment for all the world to see.

Open Minded Male

April 22nd, 2010
8:50 am

Professor:
You have to look in the right places. I’m from Georgia–born and raised. I know a lot of men like me. (I have a professional degree. And a girlfriend, by the way. But I’m interested in this topic.) I’m also a Republican! Does that make your head spin?!?! :)

Professor

April 22nd, 2010
8:50 am

Maybe it is me, but it appears that this topic has brought out all the chumps and riff raff. I see this is going to be troll nation.

@Hey Princess I know Lil Princess is going to have a great game. Are you one of those moms that will have on a shirt saying “Little Princess Mother?” :grin:

@Lady J why are you all over the place?

BeBe KID

April 22nd, 2010
8:51 am

Many black men, many of them professional black men are so shell shocked from negative experiences with black women they adapt to a survival strategy of self preservation and so do many black women who have had an equal number of bad experiences. The adaptation to this self preservation survival strategy often leads to toxic relationships; who can out wit who gaining more than giving or at least breaking even. Money for booty or booty for money is often the end result. No relationships of substance come out of this mentality. This is why escort services and strip clubs are popular with many men. Many black men will pay up front for what they ultimately want amd many black women will get paid for what they feel they are entitled to.

Simple Man!!!

April 22nd, 2010
8:52 am

AtlBlkMan

April 22nd, 2010
8:47 am

I need to co-sign on this post, but then I risk being told that “Bishop Long is a good man” and that I am going to hell for questioning him!!! LOL :)

Professor

April 22nd, 2010
8:54 am

But I’m interested in this topic.

So, why does this topic interest you? BTW, Georgia is a Republican state so I would imagine most of the state is Republican. No, my head is not spinning yet. :grin:

Justin Credible

April 22nd, 2010
8:54 am

LOL@ 24karatga….I agree 110%. A lot of the women were overweight with excessive weaveness going on. If you want your man to look appealing, why can’t you at least make a valiant effort to do the same? With that said…One reason why a sucessfull woman can’t find a man is because of their long laundry list of what a man should be/have. Some women may have close to 50 things on her “things she wants in a man” list. Sometimes a woman’s standards/expectations can be too high. Why not take 10 (important) must-haves out? Secondly, try approaching a man yourself or become more approachable. There’s nothing wrong with saying hello or sparking a conversation sometimes. Some men do like it when you’re semi-agressive or show some initiative. Or…at least don’t be in a group of 6 women expecting him to come talk. Its probably not going to happen. But if your you’re alone or with one other friend, may eye contact and smile…its not that hard. Just being real…you can thank me later.

PrincessNik

April 22nd, 2010
8:54 am

Are you one of those moms that will have on a shirt saying “Little Princess Mother?”

@ Professor,
Afraid not LOL, of course she looks like mini me so it won’t be a question of who she belongs to. I’ll save that shirt for cheerleading and gymnastics ;)

AmazonRed™

April 22nd, 2010
8:55 am

I hoped you watched ABC’s Nightline last night!

Why WiseDiva? I certainly did not watch. And I don’t see why I’d be encouraged to either.

SexyCool

April 22nd, 2010
8:55 am

I don’t need someone to tell me how to find a good black man. I need make sure that I’m doing everything that I can to have a successful relationship with the one I’ve got.

PrincessNik

April 22nd, 2010
8:56 am

AYG

April 22nd, 2010
8:57 am

On Spetember 17, 2000, the AJC ran an article entitled, ” Black Women’s Discontent.” The article featured married, single and dating African American women as well as scholars from around the city discussing this same topic. When is it ever going to end. I was featured in the article. Am I married – no. Do I feel that there are not any good men out there – no. Has my opinion changed since the article was published – no. Do want a special man in my life- certainly I do but if I continue to entertain this never ending discussion that leads to doom and gloom in the lives of so many professional women I will play into the sterotype of bad attitude and bitter sister. Enjoy life and like will be attracted to like.

AmazonRed™

April 22nd, 2010
8:59 am

Have y’all considered dating white guys or asian guys or hispanic guys or indian guys?

Atlanta is over 60% black and I live in the city. It’s rather easy to meet black men here.

Would I consider it? Yes. But with the places I frequent, and the segregationalist attitude of the city, I really don’t meet many people of other races, let alone have them step to me.

LivingWellDCH

April 22nd, 2010
8:59 am

And yes…Black women need to expand their social horizon: be open to dating White men. Some White men want to date Black women but they feel they might get rejected if they approach them. With Black male numbers low, Black women need to be open to widening their net. There are good Black men out there, but there are also good White men (and others). The anger between Black men and women needs to quell; but i do feel that since Black women are the ones who mostly support the Black church, and are mostly raising the kids (stop having babies out of wedlock, ladies), and mostly graduating college, more Black men need to be committed to their manhood, and not just their trying to get some. Be a man. Step up, brothers. get an education, speak English, return to a sense of family values and family structure. Hip-hop and rap, baggy pants, poor language skills…all these things are adverse to the advancement of people, the race and family structure.

LivingWellDCH

April 22nd, 2010
9:00 am

That show was was ridiculous. It made a mockery of a serious discussion. First of all, Steve Harvey is not an “expert” on [whatever he self-appointed himself to be an expert on--male relationships/male psyche?]. Secondly, there were a few comedians gabbing and also, for “Nightline”–a NEWS program–to do such a poor, light treatment was journalistically lacking.

IF they were only going to show a 30 minute segment, it should have highlighted pertinent facts and stats, not what they showed, which was almost minstrel.

And that “israel” guy (who wrote the Denzel principle”) is part of the issue: he’s on a national news program and he shows up dressed like a hoodrat. Who wants a “man” who dresses like that or doesn’t have the sense to at least put on a sports coat and nice slacks?

Terrible treatment and journalistically useless waste of air time. More later. This topic will be better explored in Living Well Despite Catchin’ Hell…an upcoming book that REALLY deals with all of Black women’s concerns–health and social issues. And celebrates how many Black women ARE living well, in spite of… Written by same author of the previous AJC article “Single and looking beats empty marriage.”

As a 50+ Black women–now engaged to be married [yippee!!]–it is an important topic; too bad ABC News [likely] gave in to Harvey and gave it such a BET-like treatment for all the world to see.

White Engineering Guy

April 22nd, 2010
9:00 am

I stumbled upon this ‘blog’ and will comment based on my experience from meeting/dating both American and latina women (knowing some here, most overseas).

1. We should not be specifying just Atlanta as the issue but “metro” areas in general.

2. Yes, I do get the impression that too many “professional” women are looking for Mr. Big, with the expensive car and (at least for a while) the high-rolling life. I’m sure there are women who are not superficial like that and just want a nice, responsibile man. Where are they?

However, if you look at dating websites and personal ads, even not particularly successful women have a page-long laundry list of “I want this..” and “I want that….” Knowing full well when I’m out-and-about, I see and hear women only desiring Mr. Big. So the impression given can be that the women only want the superficial things, not necessarily the right things.

3. I find it interesting that this subject ignores the possibility of dating any white or latino men. Why is that? I find it hard to accept complaints when you’re still picking from the same batch of men, with little success, then complaining about the results.

I’m a pretty well educated guy and a gentleman, but really just don’t want to deal with any more games from some women here. Personally I found non-Americanized latina women to be far more down to earth and “Ms. Right” than metro city women (like in Atlanta).

However I would not object to dating a nice, respectable black lady who has her act together. She would not have to be successful monetarily but a positive, loving women who doesn’t act like a teenager and can provide great sex.

I get the impression sometimes it just isn’t worth it for guys who have more worldly experience to even bother with women around here. After relationships with women from other countries I don’t think I would go back. Why would I?

Women have it a lot harder in foreign countries and just want a good, non-abusive and honest man who’ll treat them right; they don’t demand he’s an all-star NFL quarterback and drives a Porsche.

It’s unfortunate that all the teenage-mentality women in Atlanta give the wrong impression about their group in general. I’m white, so I readily see the nonsense from some girls who are from the “white bread, suburban living” world and it turns me off.

Unfortunate that the lame ducks seem to be ruining for the rest.

Just my $.02.