‘Nightline’ looks at successful black women’s relationship struggles
See tonight's show, then discuss it on my follow-up blog Thursday morning. (ABC/Guy D'Alema)
You will definitely want to watch, record, or hold a viewing party for “Nightline Face-Off” on ABC, airing tonight at 11:35 p.m. The hot topic on the debate table was why successful black women can’t get a man. Not only was the debate taped locally in Decatur earlier this month, yours truly was there to witness it all! That’s right, people, the relationship revolution will be televised…tonight on ABC!
The debate moderators included author and radio host Steve Harvey and Nightline’s Vicki Mabrey. The lively and decidedly entertaining panelists included CSI star, Hill Harper, journalist/VH1 star Jacque Reid, Comedian and ‘The View’ panelist Sherri Shepherd and author Jimi Izrael. Atlanta’s own Dr. Tartt (and Misadventures in Atlanta guest blogger!) was featured as an audience guest panelist as well, as was soon to be published author, Helena Andrews. Andrews is the author of an upcoming memoir that will include stories about her “crazy dating trials and triumphs in Washington, D.C.
As I sat in the audience, I found the dialogue to be honest and intense at times. Thankfully, there was also a great deal of laughter and fun. I actually came away with, dare I say, more hope? I was happy this town hall debate afforded me a chance to recruit a new Love Squad panel. I pitched them a couple of questions that came to mind from the face-off. Let’s meet them and hear what they had to say!
What are the hurdles professional black women face when fishing in a relatively small dating pond? Do you think these hurdles are more difficult in Atlanta or easier to overcome?
Bren Herrera, 30, Atlanta. Education: Post-Graduate. Industry: Entertainment
I could totally relate to Bren: “Discerning a man’s intent and genuine interest has been a problem. I attribute that to having entirely too many options and ultimately, a lack of preparedness to settle down. Coming from DC, where the ratio of black men to black women isn’t half as bad as it is in Atlanta, dating here seems much more obscure and a ‘game’ of sorts. There are so many women here, men have taken the liberty in being dishonest, driven by their ulterior motives or just immaturity.
Kenneth 35, Atlanta. Education: Currently in graduate school. Occupation: Consultant, Minister, Relationship Coach.
Kenneth believes that the many hurdles successful black women face are complex. They include: media influence; misconception that men are intimidated by them; a misunderstanding of their relationship value. He mused, “Professional black women may encounter greater distractions in Atlanta than other cities, but this can be attributed to the social competition and materialism that exists.
Allen, 27, Lilburn. Education: College Degree. Occupation: Business Analyst
When I think about the topic of dating/marriage in the educated black community, I just wonder if we can ever go back to our traditional roles. A lot of my friends and I want a woman that has aspirations to be a good homemaker as well as a career woman. We also don’t think that the educated successful women enjoy being in a submissive role.
I think our love squad raised some wonderful points! Some things I hadn’t though about. Do you agree or disagree with them? How would you answer the panel questions?
Rodney Ho, Sherri Shepherd discuss her ‘Nightline’ experience in his Radio & TV Talk blog
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559 comments Add your comment
tmac
April 21st, 2010
10:55 am
RandyT….I am aware but somebody has to say it.
i'm swiss
April 21st, 2010
10:56 am
For Real — I believe the 38% & 39% figures were percentages of the total welfare-recipients, not of the respective black/white populations. So they would be nearly the same in real numbers.
For Real
April 21st, 2010
10:56 am
Swiss: Exactly! If parents and grandparents didn’t condone such behavior or acts the kids would not have them. What you have is parents and grandparents using the newborn as a filler in their lives or as some sort of twisted logic of justifying their decisions.
Wise: See my list of what education and salary doesn’t compensate for because dating just isn’t that hard. And stop shaking your leg.
Raqi
April 21st, 2010
10:58 am
I think the whole dilemma is shared between the two. Man and woman.
IMO the first problem being women making themselves to feel like they are giving up some part of themselves by being a wife. I think many feel because women have come to obtain those “statuses” that once were only held by men (educated, breadwinner) they are entitled to wear the pants in the relationship however still receiving the benefits that fall to the woman as the wife.
And many are taking the sayings of a small few yesteryear women and running with it. Not all women back in the day stayed in their marriage because they had no other choice. The greater percent of those women did so happily because the wanted to be there.
And some men on the other hand are asking for too much. Many guys want the woman that can bring it (financially) like he can, yet he is not willing to play the part of taking on half of the homemaker duties. You can’t have it both ways. You cannot be want a modern woman and only be willing to play the part of the traditional man. You cannot have it both ways. Make a choice.
My husband said the other night while we were watching Baggage and the guy said he wanted an independent women, “Wanting An Independent Woman = Wanting a woman that he will not be forced into the God awful task of having to actually do something for her.” And we women are just as bad. Many of us want to ride with fellows until we break a nail (not literally) and need comforting. Either you are going to carry your own or not.
There is a balance and it is up to each couple to find and do what works best for them. But in reality you can’t get out there and play a man’s game and then cry when you get hurt.
Raqi
April 21st, 2010
10:59 am
Sorry WiseDiva I was not trying to hijack the topic. I just wanted to turn attention to another relationship show that you may find interesting to watch. If nothing else it looks like it is going to me quite humorous.
PrincessNik
April 21st, 2010
10:59 am
But in reality you can’t get out there and play a man’s game and then cry when you get hurt
well said Raqi
Kym--Didn't realize my life was that bad..Thank you Steve Harvey!
April 21st, 2010
10:59 am
@Tazee Hear Hear!! Bravo!!Bravo!! I second those emotions!!
@RandyT..look if I knew you were going to stay over there that long..I would have asked for a present..I love all things British..okay not their food..yeah and that weather sucks..okay I like their tv..
abc
April 21st, 2010
11:02 am
For Real, looking up some numbers, there were about 238,000,000 whites and 38,000,000 blacks in the United States in 2005; but the 38-39% figures are for percentages of welfare recipients of those races, not for the total population.
Lady J
April 21st, 2010
11:02 am
can’t do it at all…..lol! not one sec! good post raqi!
lurker
April 21st, 2010
11:03 am
TMAC – I skimmed your post but didn’t really feel the need to read all of it. I’m proud of black women and their accomplishments and really, truly sorry you get a different read on how we appear or come off. It’s been said a gazillion times before but Imma say it again. Black women have been the glue for years that held things together. I say the glass is half full versus half empty. Meaning she’s hard, bitter, unapproachable when really she’s independant, small to zero margin for bs, not not needing a man but certainly won’t die or pass out if she won’t get one.
Randyt (aka With that stupid volcano, I thought I was stuck here with "Toothless")
April 21st, 2010
11:03 am
A comment regarding the posts here today. Whether the issues are real or imagined, does it not stand to reason that just HEARING them so constantly would strike a certain amount of fear and apprehension into anyone considering dating in the AA world as being discussed here, male or female?
What I am saying is that just the atmosphere of negativity has an effect on a potential suitor…because it seems everyone goes in on the defensive and fearful from the beginning. Just a thought.
BlackMagicWoman
April 21st, 2010
11:03 am
“When I think about the topic of dating/marriage in the educated black community, I just wonder if we can ever go back to our traditional roles. A lot of my friends and I want a woman that has aspirations to be a good homemaker as well as a career woman. We also don’t think that the educated successful women enjoy being in a submissive role.
I think our love squad raised some wonderful points! Some things I hadn’t though about. Do you agree or disagree with them? How would you answer the panel questions?”
Hell no! Do I look like I want to be a glorified maid/baby maker? The women before us have worked too hard to get out of being just that. When I speak with older ladies (elderly), they tell me that I have the life that they have always wanted. They say that when they were in their younger years all they had to look forward to is getting married and having kids. They wished they could travel, live on their on, experience things like a career. Also it’s funny because these “traditional” roles these men speak of are nuts! As a women back then…my own job was the home & kids. But now you expect a woman to work just as many hours as you. Then come home to work another job in the home. But you can chill and wait for dinner…you don’t have to get the kids ready for bed after helping them with homework. Oh yeah and on top of all that I am supposed to be your freaky down for whatever…whenever??? Excuse me…but I get 24 hours to my day just like you. But I am supposed to live like I have don’t! GTFOH! And the final nail…I pay 50% of the bills of the house…and I am supposed to be submissive?? Again I say…GTFOH! That sounds like pure stress and crap! I will stay single and happy! Thank you!!!!
For Real
April 21st, 2010
11:05 am
Swiss: Good point, I missed that my bad abc. What number does “of those on welfare” represent?
Raqi: “Wanting An Independent Woman” – Mase and I are of the same opinion about dudes that scream that. I told you before my thoughts on the dudes that make the Independent songs.
Carlito
April 21st, 2010
11:05 am
No comment on the topic again today, except is this really a concern for a particular group of women? Or is it a relationship concern between all men and women in general and a particular group is being highlighted?
Tazzee - 24 days til Mrs.
April 21st, 2010
11:05 am
Raqi – as usual, you hit the nail on the head with your 10:58.
But I still think the numbers don’t help when the majority of black women only want a black men (me included).
Off to lunch.
Raqi
April 21st, 2010
11:05 am
most 6-figure women would not give my fiance’ a second look
Tazzee, that is a big part of the problem. Women are passing over good men because his bank account does not measure up. Too many people make the huge mistake of measuring the man by his $$$$ but a good man is more than money he makes.
lurker
April 21st, 2010
11:05 am
Oh, and for those statistics that shows single family by the bunches. I can certainly appreciate and commend black women that bring those tiny lives forth (even if unscruptulously) as oppose to aborting that we know soooo many white women do. I think it takes a true woman to bring such a disruption (and ya’ll know how I mean it) and dealing with it as opposed to doing away or not willing to be accountable.
Dan
April 21st, 2010
11:05 am
@Raqi
Do you agree with your husband’s thoughts (as stated 5th paragraph @ 10:58)?
Lady J
April 21st, 2010
11:06 am
lol carlito!
kimmie
April 21st, 2010
11:06 am
tmac – The “others” are SO welcome to you! Your posts prove we are not missing a thing with you out of the AA market!LOL!!
And that is a great beginning to my post about the stereotypes I have come across in dating.
This whole notion of all successful AA women being overbearing, too picky, arrogant & angry is BS. There are a few like that, and so we all get thrown in the same pool. I’m sure you could find successful women of other races that get stereotyped the same way. In any case it’s unfair.
I come from a family of high achievers – everyone is either in medicine/science or education. So me & my brothers going to college and making something of ourselves was understood. But I noticed once I finished college & got my MBA, the putdowns immediately started. One camp of folks wondered why I didn’t have a few babies already, even though I had no husband. But most criticism came from men. I am not one to wear my accomplishments on my forehead. In fact, if anything I downplay them or only mention when asked. I may mention I went to UGA to get in a debate about college football, not brag about a degree. Anyway, some guys, the minute they found out my background, would immediately put me in the she-don’t-need-a-man pool! Automatically assume that I would not know how to be submissive or a good homemaker or too cute to cook. That could not be further from the truth. I can bring home the bacon AND fry it up in the pan, yall know! I am the AA Martha Stewart when it comes to that. I love homemaking. But I am a finance manager that has worked for a few major companies. So what. When I come home, I gotta eat like everyone else, I enjoy music & entertainment & I need love too. I leave my work AT WORK, don’t bring the stress home at all, never have. But too many guys ASSUMED, without giving me a chance! It hurt, many times. I felt I had to jump thru hoops to prove I did not fit the stereotype. No more. I stop jumping. I just chilled. Either a guy had to be intelligent enough to get to KNOW me or he could go kick rocks.
Life has been grand ever since!
PrincessNik
April 21st, 2010
11:06 am
BMW
wow, you make some very valid points in your post.
tell em how ya really feel
Professor...
April 21st, 2010
11:09 am
BMW that 11:03 was as real as it gets! My favorite line from your post pay 50% of the bills of the house…and I am supposed to be submissive?? Again I say…GTFOH!
@lurker you are so right on that 11:05 I feel you.
Kym--Didn't realize my life was that bad..Thank you Steve Harvey!
April 21st, 2010
11:10 am
@RandyT: You make an absolute GREAT point!! If the focus is always on the negative..that is always..always what the world sees..which is why I said how about a discussion on solutions..or focus on successful black relationships. I mean why was someone like Raqi or Tazzee not invited to speak on the positive. How about Swiss cheese over there who found his African princess? I mean why were they not asked to share the love instead of all this drama..because frankly besides my own hang ups and issues..all this makes me want to stay single. I mean why try jumping in the pool if all you are going to get is a giant water wedgie?
BlackMagicWoman
April 21st, 2010
11:11 am
PROFESSOR…. ” If having a homemaker is important to you, you should make enough money to have her at “home” so that she does not have to work.”
AMEN girl!
“You cannot be want a modern woman and only be willing to play the part of the traditional man. You cannot have it both ways. Make a choice.”
Again I say….Amen!!!
KYM…I grew up on BBC. My favorite show is st Absolutely Fabulous! That Patsy and Edina are hillarious!
LURKER….”she’s hard, bitter, unapproachable when really she’s independant, small to zero margin for bs, not not needing a man but certainly won’t die or pass out if she won’t get one.”
That would be me in a nutshell. I was raised NEVER depend on anybody to do things for you. Get your own and don’t worry if a man doesn’t come along. The world will NOT stop turning if he doesn’t. Nor will I die without one. Make my own happiness….not waiting on someone to make me happy! Best lesson that I have ever learned. I learned that from my mami..who was told that by her father. I love my granny….but I am the total opposite and I thank God. I see her at 78 and I would lay down and die if I was like her.
For Real
April 21st, 2010
11:11 am
RandyT: you buying into preceptions again. I think it’s lazy (not you) to get your information 2nd and 3rd hand instead of getting it from the horse’s mouth. Think about it, how valuable is a 2nd or 3rd generation copy of a check? Or how about this, when the airport said the flights are cancel due to ash did you go look for yourself?
SlimCoco-puff puff pass
April 21st, 2010
11:11 am
Dayum, it’s not even 12 yet and ya’ll got 2 pages for me to try to catch up on…Whew! Will check back in once I get caught up.
PrincessNik
April 21st, 2010
11:12 am
Too many people make the huge mistake of measuring the man by his $$$$ but a good man is more than money he makes.
Amen to this!
Lady J
April 21st, 2010
11:13 am
wow I said this would be interesting….great views….
abc
April 21st, 2010
11:14 am
I’d say that the effect might be the same as it is in the workplace. I’ve worked for 3 women in my career, and each was a total nightmare. I will NEVER work for a woman again. If I should get a new female boss this afternoon, I’ll put in my notice before the end of the day. No kidding.
So, I should want to date or marry a woman who would be the same type of chick? No way! You can have a career; or you can have a happy family. Chances are slim you can have both.
For Real
April 21st, 2010
11:15 am
“and dealing with it as opposed to doing away or not willing to be accountable” – So aborting child is not being accountable? Religious view aside.
Carlito
April 21st, 2010
11:15 am
Lady J, Hello, how are you?
Kym,Swiss and Randyt, I like reading what you all blogged.
I am just keeping quiet and waiting for a more integrated topic because I tend to offend some bloggers here when I have questions.
Tazzee - 24 days til Mrs.
April 21st, 2010
11:15 am
lurker – I do not believe in abortion, but I think part of the problem is many of the women having the babies aren’t equipped to ‘deal’. So even before we get to the point of needing abortion, we need to have open, honest conversations about sex and protection. I was raised by my grandmother, but when my sister got pregnant at 16, she couldn’t look to ‘mommy’ to help with her child like my mother did. So it becomes a cycle of children being born but not being raised.
OK, I’m really gone to lunch now…
DreamsMaterialize
April 21st, 2010
11:15 am
DreamsM you sound like a research methods professor!
Research is my thing. As a mathematcian I also have my reservations about statistics. Mathematicians sometimes call statisticians Voodoo Priests because they can make numbers say what they want. That said, there is validity to statistics. Whenever possible you want to validate the data source, identify the data collection methodology, and verify statistical techniques used to analyze the data. This is work that many are unwilling or unequipped to do, so most just accept statistics at face value.
I think it’s a myth. Whites are 80% of the US population in 2009, with almost 13% AA
Here is where things can be misleading. According to the census, latinos account for ~13% of the population. We all know enough math to know that 13%+13%+80%=106%=not possible. The problem is that many latinos and other ethnicities mark themselves as “white” on the census. So, the 80% actually includes many latinos and asians. It is, however, true that blacks, in proportion, receive assistance more than whites. If blacks account for 13% of the total population, then they should account for the same percentage of the welfare population to be considered fairly represented. Black are actually over-represented in the welfare population because their proportion of this population is much higher than their proportion of the total population.
Leggs
April 21st, 2010
11:16 am
Good morning everyone!
Too much too read, and this topic has truly been beaten to death. When will there be constant negative attention put on “why black men can’t get a woman!” There seem to be so many more men than women yet it’s stomped into our conscious that we can’t get a man. I think this makes the men look worse than the women since the women aren’t accepting a man simply on face value. Apparently, they’re not bringing too much to the plate either!
I remember someone agreeing that Hill Harper is short and that something is off in his appearance. I think I know what it is….he has no neck! His head sits right on his shoulders! making him look like a Rock-Em Sock-EM robot!
For Real
April 21st, 2010
11:18 am
Raqi: “Too many people make the huge mistake of measuring the man by his $$$$ but a good man is more than money he makes.” – Great point and men have always known that a good woman is worth more than the money she makes. That begs the questions of “what type of security do women really want Financial or Mind, Body and Soul?
BlackMagicWoman
April 21st, 2010
11:19 am
Carlito…I am hard to offend hun….ask away! What do you want to know?
PrincessNik
April 21st, 2010
11:20 am
So, I should want to date or marry a woman who would be the same type of chick? No way! You can have a career; or you can have a happy family. Chances are slim you can have both.
abc, don’t judge all career women by this, some women are very happy to “turn it off” when they get home. I know i am, sure i don’t mind us discussing our day but i’m not going to be treating my SO the same way i treat the guys here at work. If anything i want to forget about the guys at work (unless something breaks and i need to call in a favor
)
Raqi
April 21st, 2010
11:20 am
as oppose to aborting that we know soooo many white women do
lurker, exactly. I stated on here before. The only difference in some AA and the Non is that for a lot of the Non abortion is the answer. But hell that does not change the fact that you got pregnant so the statistics are off.
When I was growing up my mom and many of the AA mother’s I knew taught if you make that mistake you live with it. But many of the Non were taught to make it go away.
Melo
April 21st, 2010
11:20 am
When you say successful black women,what kind of success are uall talking about?? Dollar terms success??
If u measuring success in dollar terms,why is it wrong for those successful black women to want to be approached or married to equally successful black men,in $$$ terms??
I wld think a woman who marries a less succeful black man is settling..am i wrong??
Is there anything wrong in settling or it is being realistic,seeing as it is that there are more black men in jail than there are in college and on the road to success??
Kym--Didn't realize my life was that bad..Thank you Steve Harvey!
April 21st, 2010
11:22 am
@Carlito..offend them..they will get over it..in time it really won’t matter anymore.
@Abc..sigh Not all female bosses are created equal. Just as not all male bosses are created equal.
Professor...
April 21st, 2010
11:23 am
I tend to offend some bloggers here when I have questions.
Carlito, who do you offend, and what questions do you have if you don’t mind me asking
kimmie
April 21st, 2010
11:23 am
Women are passing over good men because his bank account does not measure up.
Raqi – I just have a hard time believing this is that prevalent. Maybe for a very few women, but the vast majority of women I come across, that are really genuine, good people, want a decent guy that’s at least got steady work. I know I don’t come into contact with MOST single women, but the only ones that were that hungup on a guy’s bank account were the unrealistic, golddigger types. Even those women get their comeuppance after a point. Don’t throw every single woman in that catagory.
Like I’ve said before, none of the blue-collar guys I know have ANY trouble meeting willing women. The ones that are not married are treated like rock stars cause they got a steady job! There are not a lot of marriageables out there to “pass up”.
For Real
April 21st, 2010
11:24 am
“You can have a career; or you can have a happy family. Chances are slim you can have both.” – I have to disagree with this because it doesn’t pass the “Check Your Work” test. In other words, base upon this logic there are no men happily married men with careers.
Carlito
April 21st, 2010
11:25 am
BlackMagicWoman, no ma’am. I am cool.
I am going to go shop for some mayonnaise and AC/DC fitted shirts with Swiss until around 2pm.
PrincessNik
April 21st, 2010
11:26 am
I wld think a woman who marries a less succeful black man is settling..am i wrong??
@ Melo, IMO i don’t think this is true. However, it depends on how successful is defined. I mean is it settling if he is doing his very best and he is all that you desire in a man. If he treats you like a queen, even if he makes significantly less money than you do. I don’t think that is settling.
julian
April 21st, 2010
11:27 am
Although I know you regulars don’t let anybody in on the conversation, I’m posting anyhow. If you don’t like it, too bad.
Why does there seem to be such a premium placed on a woman being “submissive”? What does that really mean, anyhow? The husband/wife relationship should be about being LIFE PARTNERS. They need to figure out what works for them. Is he better at cooking? She better at cutting the grass? Find out what works.
Submissive, my a@#.
For Real
April 21st, 2010
11:28 am
Kimmie: “There are not a lot of marriageables out there to “pass up”.” – I have a hard time believing that there are not a lot of dudes that are marriage material.
Raqi
April 21st, 2010
11:28 am
Yes Dan, I do believe that to be true about many men. Many want the woman that he has to do the least for. My husband talks to his male friends and associates so I take what he says as being fact for many.
Men were given the role to be the provider from the beginning of time but many are now shucking that responsibility. I understand that many men have been used by women with bad intentions, I get that and know a lot of men may feel that a woman carrying her own will be less likely to “take” from you. But that is not true.
I can point you in the direction of women that have it all, education, 6-figure salaries and all that will take you for everything you’ve got. One of them being a distant cousin of mine.
But I feel that a real man although may having been got a time or two knows how to deal with the aftermath. He learns how to make better choices in women.
PrincessNik
April 21st, 2010
11:29 am
They need to figure out what works for them. Is he better at cooking? She better at cutting the grass? Find out what works.
@ julian
i’ve said something to this affect multiple times, there will be strengths and weaknesses but its about finding the ying to your yang, the person who is stronger where you are weaker.
Kym--Didn't realize my life was that bad..Thank you Steve Harvey!
April 21st, 2010
11:30 am
Also, what exactly or how do you define successful? I mean if we must beat this dead horse lets get to the bone..I mean how do you really define successful? Success could be a woman working corporate, or in the service industry. I mean have we come to putting a dollar sign on success. I think the woman who worked as a maid hwr whole life but when she died was able to give to a university a few million pretty dang successful. Or Carlito who told us his story about getting out of his old life and on with a new one..that sounds pretty dang successful to me. I don’t think I am all that great..but heck I pat myself on the back everytime anyone pays me a compliment on the behavior of my son. Because frankly according to all stats at 14 he should be prepping for prison not thinking about prep schools. Success!!!