More Money, More Men?
One of our readers, “Anonymousella”, brought my attention to a recent NY Times article, More Men Marrying Wealthier Women. I couldn’t stifle the snark, I’m sorry. My first thought was, what took them so long!? Then I wondered exactly how many times my friends and I have discussed the real issues that would come with dating a less than successful man.
Just even typing that makes me cringe, because successful is one of those social code words for rich, wealthy, powerful. Women get criticized for wanting a man who is successful. We also get criticized for putting up with men who clearly have no ambition. I’m not trying to be whiny, here. I’m just pointing out the fact that this is why a lot of single women have to drown out the crazy mixed “messages” about what we should and should not want in a mate.
I am curious about what messages men get from society (media?), family, or friends. Would you ever hear criticism from anyone if you dated or married a woman who was not “successful”? Generally, does it seem to matter more that she is a good homemaker and motherly?
The article states, “While marriage rates have declined over all, women with college degrees are still more likely to marry today than less educated women.” I suppose that should be encouraging from me, the master degreed gal, but I have to admit, I haven’t noticed any advantage.
In fact, a friend of mine has a theory that men who were raised by single mothers who struggled, are more drawn to the same type of woman. She believes that a guy would probably find a less educated, seemingly less sophisticated woman as an ideal match because she would offer more in terms of traditional marriage. What do you think of my friend’s theory?
The article ended with an interesting comment that one of the women heard from a male friend: “You are confident, have good credit, own your own business, travel around the world and are self-sufficient. What man is going to want you?” Thoughts?
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476 comments Add your comment
abc
January 21st, 2010
10:27 am
I think that focusing on money or lack of it, and assigning that as a major criteria to measure someones integrity, ambition, etc., is a mistake. Personally, that kind of scrutiny would put me off completely, and I’d probably pass the test(s). Someone who couldn’t pass such scrutiny would surely feel even more put off, and you’d miss out on what could be the best relationship of your life, simply by being shallow.
Professor
January 21st, 2010
10:27 am
@Professor
“because he really cannot afford to hang out. ”
What “hot spots” are you referring to exactly? You have to remember Atlanta is a small bouji city and you can only do so much. Unless you are at the 4 seasons for brunch everyday.
M dot you have to be on my level to get “it” and I don’t always hang in Atlanta…I go to the airport and head out even if it is just for the day…my favorite spot to eat is not even in ATL…
…that is why I stay with my kind
Luvbug
January 21st, 2010
10:28 am
Conan O’Brien gets $45mil to quit his job. I am certain that I should have picked Late Night Talk Show Host as a career.
Based on Letterman, you can hit the jackpot just “working” (”being”, “standing”, “horseplaying”) around them
Willie Dynamite
January 21st, 2010
10:28 am
Wow, just Wow
Cemeeli
January 21st, 2010
10:30 am
@ PoppaG – When you peek in, i did find a deal on Craigslist. Tell me i don’t know how to find a ticket. lol
Now cain’t tell you how much them folks priced it…cause i’d have to kill you for ransom, my first born, aaaand “put out” to purchase them.
But it’s steal a deal…is what they said.
Leggs
January 21st, 2010
10:31 am
@Professor ~ can you buy me a ticket and take me to lunch with you next time you venture out?
M. (pronouced M dot)
January 21st, 2010
10:31 am
@Professor
LOL oh ok professor. What ever you say. What is your kind exactly. That was funny. It’s funny how sometimes some people (not you Professor, you are perfect) do something one time (take a cool vacation, eat at a nice restaurant, stay at a nice hotel, and they front like its something they do everyday.
Luvbug
January 21st, 2010
10:32 am
BTW I think we all have read the millionaire next door so we know about being frugal, but that is an option for them…money brings options.
That reminds me – my cousin still has mine. He better give me my book back.
SexyCool - I feel too damn good, see...ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo!
January 21st, 2010
10:33 am
I believe so. And I believe that is something that should be considered. Another thing that I looked for in TheDude is drive, ambition and even more important than those, hustle.
If things get rocky, is this Negro gone get out and do whatever needs to be done (legally) to make ends meet? (And that includes knowing how to cut corners and spend wisely.) Because I know I am/do. And I expect that much in my potential husband.
A funny – I have a gf that used to say “Making my ends meet? Hell, my ends ain’t seen each other in so long that if they saw each other in streets they would get to fightin’ cause one wouldn’t recognize the other one.”
Raqi
January 21st, 2010
10:33 am
abc, I think it’s all about the price tags these days instead of just being happy and having a good time. Do good times only come in little boxes or multiple digits to the left of the decimal?
My husband loves steaks and he says the best cheapest steaks are at Longhorns. The quality and taste of the meat means more to him than any swanky establishment or price tag. He likes Longhorns despite the fact that he can afford to eat at more expensive places.
Cemeeli
January 21st, 2010
10:34 am
lol @ WillieD i aint’ foolin’ with you today.
…gon head an put in for these tickets…
Dan - moving away from gray and back to black
January 21st, 2010
10:37 am
@Raqi
It’s important that you take a woman to trendy places, popular places, regardless of the price. You are after all trying to convince/persuade/woo her.
Come on, you know this…
Professor
January 21st, 2010
10:38 am
Leggs you are cool…we need to do that!
Why would someone limit themselves to just ATL on the weekend, or when they have some downtime? We live in a city with an airport where you can go anywhere…why not go to NY if you have a taste for Tavern on the Green, or go to TX if you have a taste for Tex-Mex and do something in a city you like…maybe Miami if you want to go to Joe’s and have a drink at Wet Willys????
That is how I do it…I cannot speak for others.
Raqi
January 21st, 2010
10:39 am
If things get rocky, is this Negro gone get out and do whatever needs to be done (legally) to make ends meet?
Let the church say….
That’s what it’s all about. That hustle. That I admire very highly in my husband. If his business went under today, he will get out there tomorrow doing something to take care of his family. As long as it’s decent and honest he will do what he has to do.
Willie Dynamite
January 21st, 2010
10:40 am
Similac – Me and My kinda folks cant afford to put in for SB Tix. However, I am saving up the pennies to one day go to that new Cowboy Stadium tho.
Raqi
January 21st, 2010
10:43 am
LOL Dan, man stop playing. If a woman you are wooing is more concerned with trendy and popular than she is with spending a nice time with you, you need to throw that one back and use a different type of bait.
Luvbug
January 21st, 2010
10:43 am
Someone who couldn’t pass such scrutiny would surely feel even more put off, and you’d miss out on what could be the best relationship of your life, simply by being shallow.
Not really – if that measure of success is an important one for you, you are weeding out the ones who don’t think it is and are therefore not a good match for you.
A lot of people (myself included) have false integrity about things that are not an option. Ex: If I were rich, I would donate xyz and not take xyz for granted…If I were famous, I would sign every autograph…If I were fit and sexy, I wouldn’t exclude fat and ugly from my dating options…etc.
It’s easy to say what you would and would not do and to declare someone shallow or not when you’re not in the situation.
I’ve yet to meet a woman (gay or straight) who has ever dream of taking care of a man. They may do it, but they never planned to.
Dan - moving away from gray and back to black
January 21st, 2010
10:44 am
cough, cough, flauge, cough Excuse me
j/k bnr
Cemeeli
January 21st, 2010
10:44 am
That is cool as hell!!!…no lie!! …’n like Leggs i would enjoy to traveling like that,too…but i’m so caught up in mundane things.
Well dang, who’s gone feed them greedy muggs will i’m gone? Don’t nobody want that job…lol
Willie Dynamite
January 21st, 2010
10:46 am
Raqi/SC – That’s what it’s all about. That hustle. That I admire very highly in my husband. If his business went under today, he will get out there tomorrow doing something to take care of his family. As long as it’s decent and honest he will do what he has to do.
True True True, I’ll even add that for ME, If push came to shove Baby Gurl gon Eat however it may come. Please believe that!!
kimmie
January 21st, 2010
10:46 am
Morning Gang!
I think we all have our insecurities and money is a big one for some people, okay, so lets really be real! As for a guy who makes considerably less than his lady, it depends on the people involved. In most cases of that I’ve seen that worked, the guy was happy and fulfilled in what he was doing. I knew of a guy who was a high school science teacher and coach. He was fine as all get out and a nice guy. He dated and married a corporate exec. She made considerably more than he did, but they were/are a great couple. They met at a mutual friends super bowl party. All the friends are college friends, but all work in different careers, some higher paying than others. You are talking about two people with the same education level, so they can have intelligent conversations and attend a lot of events that interest them but won’t break the bank of the guy.
In contrast, I have a friend that has not completed her degree. She makes a decent living, in the high 30’s. But she is insecure when she meets professional guys. She feels insecure because she does not have a degree. No guy has made her feel bad about it, but it’s insecurity she has put on herself.
A lot of these insecurities, men & women, we put on ourselves. And like Professor is trying to explain, the very wealthy and very less fortunate live in different worlds and those worlds rarely meet up and live together in harmony.
Dan - moving away from gray and back to black
January 21st, 2010
10:47 am
@Raqi
Cast a wide enough net and you will get tires, boots, cans. Got nothing to do with the bait, moreso what’s in the river.
Cemeeli
January 21st, 2010
10:51 am
WillieD
Cowboy’s Stadium is really nice!…my field representative sent me aaaalll kinds of pictures while it was being buildt. He has a side hustle (construction buisness) and after he’d leave “work” he was there alot.
Nice Stadium….i wanna see it up front too.
Dan - moving away from gray and back to black
January 21st, 2010
10:51 am
@Kimmie
I’ve been in plenty of relationships where incomes were different (an it has been me as the ‘broke’ one). So, I don’t believe that money has anything to do with a couple until and unless someone in the relationship makes it an issue.
Lady J
January 21st, 2010
10:52 am
off topic a little but when I meet a man that makes waaaayyyyy more than me I truly feel out of their leugue and also get the yucky feeling of all I could be is a play toy….beyond current event convo we have nothing else in common….although on the other hand a former bff said I would make a great politician’s wife or someone to that effect bc of me personality and support for my partner and my social butterfly ways…but on the substance side I wouldn’t have much to offer bc of the lack of status to be with the big dawgs….am I making sense…raqi leggs proff somebody help make my thoughts clearer…of course I have never been in a situation where I made more…I’m not sure if I would flaunt it or be humble….it is something to think about…I know me….lol
DreamsMaterialize
January 21st, 2010
10:52 am
Women date guys they can’t “afford” to date allllllll the time. It’s because they never have to pay for anything. So, if a chick makes 100K and meets a guy who makes 750K, then she can’t afford to date him. But it really doesn’t matter because if he is genuinely interested in her, then he foots the bill for whatever they want to do. If she’s the one for him, the money doesn’t matter.
Cemeeli
January 21st, 2010
10:57 am
…right now i’d love a ticket to Haiti to help “do something”…’sides paying a cell phone bill to support or sending a first aid box. To have a little down time, and all you can do is watch is all on TV, is heart wrenching!!!
but…
kimmie
January 21st, 2010
10:59 am
So, I don’t believe that money has anything to do with a couple until and unless someone in the relationship makes it an issue.
Dan – So very true, just like in my example about my friends education issues. But, I liken it to a quote Ted Turner made – “Money ain’t a problem when you got a lot of it.” Also, how would you like it if you were in a committed relationship with a person, you were the primary breadwinner and you had to constantly bail your lady out because she misuses money?
Raqi
January 21st, 2010
10:59 am
LadyJ, Huh? If the guy is into you why would you feel out of his league. Especially if he is not the “big baller” type. And if he is and wants to take you along for the ride go with it. Just because a person earns at a higher level does not mean they are better than the next person.
There is a lot that you two could have in common. I don’t understand the nothing in common part. Please elaborate.
M. (pronouced M dot)
January 21st, 2010
10:59 am
@Dreams
“afford” to date”
I was just about to get on that because if we are just talking about dating, how do people know how much someone they are dating makes? You guys arent married so its nobodies business. Also, are people assuming somebody makes a certain amount by what kind of car they drive, where they live, etc?
Funny story; yesterday my coworker was telling me about a guy she was talking to who played her for cheap. She had 2 movie passes, took him, and he wouldnt even buy concessions, he said they were to expensive. Then she wanted bottled water, he said that was to expensive and she should go to the fountain. Long story short, the movie was over and she wanted simple Ihop, he told her that wasnt in his budget and he suggested McDonalds.
Anyway, come to find out, the car he drove was not his real car, he has a 5 br home, 5 rental properties, both parents were doctors, etc. Moral of the story, dont judge off everything you see. There is always more than meets the eye good or bad.
THE INFAMOUS DK aka MR COMMON DENOMINATOR
January 21st, 2010
11:00 am
Its not about the money he makes its about the reminder when things get hectic that I make the money around here.. Most men could care less what you make as long as you wear the skirt.. A real man will never wear a skirt even if youre Oprah cause men feel like when we get together we are in this thing together. Its funny when men make the majority of the money its our money but when she makes more its her money..
LoveLife411
January 21st, 2010
11:02 am
I always made more and saved more… Dating to marriage it didn’t matter who made more, bills were paid equitably, groceries bought, a little put aside for savings/vacations, and we both had the same amount in our pockets until next pay day.
Financial problems came up when he became unhappy/dissatisfied with his career choices or lack there of and became jealous as I continued to move ahead… Dude pretty much stopped contributing … oh, she got it she can handle it all! Never mind, until next pay day I took care of my needs (gas, lunch, etc.) and two kids out of my pocket.
Lady J
January 21st, 2010
11:02 am
ok you broke that part down….but what if he is the big baller…still roll and feel comfortable??? It is many women now pulling their in with dating on the money side if if one doesnt have the resources to match sometimes to you know pull their end then what??? now if we boke making 40,000 living check to check I would be cool and not ashame that I don’t have it but if he making 125,000 and above I may get ghost to save face….HELP me understand money and dating….men shouldn’t pay for everything should they???
Raqi
January 21st, 2010
11:03 am
kimmie, in your example money is not the issue. That’s more of a character issue on the woman’s part. What if she was the main breadwinner and still misused the money putting the household in bad situations? Would that make the situation better? I think not.
There are many instances in marriages that I know of where the one that makes less just happens to be a better money manager. The problem is the misuse of the funds moreso than who earned the most of it.
Cemeeli
January 21st, 2010
11:04 am
@LadyJ – Okay so as far as money is concerned in your story…Example when a female is dating let’s say a man selling dope and it’s a lucrative hustle….what if it’s a situ that she is more educated than he…is it assumed that she’s to flex her intellect “muscles” and ostracize him because “she know”, or since he just wants a successful, intelligent woman on his side is that considered “same level”?
Or…
Is she deduced to not as “successful” compared to Mr. Big King, because her pockets aren’t swole?
Lady J
January 21st, 2010
11:05 am
ok excuse all errors…Raqi I hope you follow me…lol
Dan - moving away from gray and back to black
January 21st, 2010
11:05 am
@Kimmie
That’s a conflation of two seperate issues: money and judgement.
If it’s my lady, money means nothing next to her happiness (within reason – had to sorry);
But if she lacks the judgement to handle financial business, then that means either I do, or I work to teach her how. If in the end her judgement is so impaired that she isn’t concerned about how her decisions with money affect me, then we shouldn’t be together.
But not because she’s blowing money, but won’t stop after my feelings are made known.
Lady J
January 21st, 2010
11:07 am
see cee cee naw I wouldn’t do that to the dope man “IF” I was dating him…I get it…lol
abc
January 21st, 2010
11:08 am
Yeah Raqi, I agree that Longhorn is a fine cheap restaurant, as long as you get the filet — but the filets at Kroger are better cuts, and I don’t mind firing up the grill, as long as the weather’s decent. Cuts from the local expensive butcher kind of suck, really. I guess I’m disillusioned with restaurants lately, though, they all seem overpriced and/or lacking in quality and service, to me.
LoveLife411
January 21st, 2010
11:08 am
Would I date someone making considerably less now.. probably not… at least match me in all things.. not an exact duplicate, but come on now.. I’m 47 (I date w/in my age group), and I have expectations about where a man should be by now. I’m not 22 anymore.
P.S. I’m still taking care of myself and two kids (w/o any help).
SexyCool - I feel too damn good, see...ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo!
January 21st, 2010
11:08 am
M.Dot – if I was o-girl, I would not have wanted to see that game playing moron again anyway.
As to knowing how much a person makes when you’re just dating? Seriously? If someone tells you that they are a teller, you have a general idea of what tellers make. If someone says that they wash cars, you know about how much a car washer makes. No, you may not be able to name to the dollar a person’s salary, but as knowledgeable, practical adults we can, generally, have some idea about a person’s financial standing.
Raqi
January 21st, 2010
11:08 am
LadyJ, baby girl, if he has not problem with what you make then stop beating yourself up about it. If the man doesn’t feel like you are a golddigger then don’t make yourself feel like you are. Somethings truly are in the eye of the beholder.
It all depends on the man. There are some men that have no problem with paying for any and everything. So what if that’s what he wants to do? Who’s to tell you it’s wrong if he and you are okay with it?
M. (pronouced M dot)
January 21st, 2010
11:09 am
@INFAMOUS
Now I totally agree with that. The guy should still be the man and in contorl of the situation no matter what her bank account says. The problem is with the independent movement, women want to run the show, and the guy feels devalued.
Like I said, women like the IDEA of being married, but not the RULES of marriage. The man should be the head of household no matter what he makes. He has all the seeds not you.
“Its funny when men make the majority of the money its our money but when she makes more its her money”
This is real funny also. When its your money, its when are WE going here, when are WE doing this. When it’s her money, she turns into Suze Orman….lol
Cemeeli
January 21st, 2010
11:10 am
…extract line 11:04 please
. Lady J your inquiry is something i…nevermind i’ll try and email you.
another day…not ready….and not for the subject matter.
Raqi
January 21st, 2010
11:10 am
LOL Thanks Cemeeli. I was about to send LadyJ out back to pick her own switch.
Tazzee - still praying for Haiti
January 21st, 2010
11:11 am
Morning Folks!
Great topics this week Wise Diva.
Dan loved your ‘We’ comment from yesterday. I was lurking and trying to tell you yesterday but work got the best of me.
On Topic
This is right up my alley. I’ve stated before that my fiance’ makes less than me. Significantly less. But he also has no debt other than his mortgage which is around $40k. In the beginning of our relationship it didn’t matter at all. He paid every time we went out and because I don’t get hung up on the expensive places, it wasn’t a problem. He has no problem with a $100+ dinner bill. His issue is when he doesn’t get $100+ of food and drink for that amount. In other words, he doesn’t like paying for atmosphere. If, for some reason, I wanted atmosphere – I paid.
As the relationship grew, we got into the habit of splitting payments. He’d pay for dinner one day, I pay the next. No problem. I remember him telling me that things would be tight during the month of August. I thought it was because his son was going to college so I told him that I would pay for all dates during that month. Lo and behold – one of the reasons things were tight was because he was buying my engagement ring…
Real Talk – if I really wanted a family, I’m not sure if I would be so open to marrying someone that made much less than me. I want to hope I would, but I’m not sure. Mainly because – what if I wanted to take extra time off to be with the baby? Honestly, with my current savings, we could do that. So, after typing this – I wouldn’t have a problem (financially) having a baby with my fiance’. I just have a problem with having a baby – period
AND my man knows how to get his hustle on. He owns his own business, but he’s skilled in more than one trade. As I’ve stated many times, he gets folks trying to hire him all the time – but he doesn’t want to work for anyone else.
I don’t think he feels like less of a man because he makes less. If I were to lose my job, we would not be able to maintain my current lifestyle – but then again, when I get married my lifestyle won’t consist of me booking a trip to London at a moment’s notice (like my BFF and I did last week – last overseas trip as a single woman).
Speaking of travel – that is the area where we see the affect of our salaries. Traveling is where I go all out and honestly, he can’t always pay half of the costs. But that’s OK with me – that’s not a ‘need’ in our relationship and we both know that if my income was depleted, he could meet all our needs.
Furthermore – because he’s skilled in a lot of trades, the $ he’s saved me more than makes up for the difference in salary. Right now I have an issue at my rental home. He’s working on it. I think I said before that, other than painting, he fixed everything that needed to be fixed in my current home when I bought it. Sometimes I do hire someone for certain things, but that’s because I don’t want to give up the time we spend together so that he can work on something.
Finally, the comfort and peace I feel within knowing he’s my partner is priceless. When something goes wrong – I call him, whereas I used to worry (how big is this problem, is it going to cost a lot, will I have time to get it fixed, etc) And when he doesn’t have the skill to fix something, he can call on his network of friends to get it done for free or at a very reduced costs.
If you ask me – I’m the one that comes out ahead in this relationship
Sorry for such a long post – but this topic is near and dear to me…
kimmie
January 21st, 2010
11:12 am
A lot of people (myself included) have false integrity about things that are not an option.
It’s easy to say what you would and would not do and to declare someone shallow or not when you’re not in the situation.
Luvbug – These statements bear repeating!
Women date guys they can’t “afford” to date allllllll the time. It’s because they never have to pay for anything.
Dreams – I knew one of you guys would say this. I’ll tell you what I told M dot last week – everything in life just ain’t fair! Like it or not, men are supposed to be the protectors, the providers, the heads of households, the “man in charge”. To provide takes money. Traditionally, men have been the bigger moneymakers. Women were either not raised to ever work and be homemakers & mothers, or if they did work, it was a teacher or a nurse. So when courting, the man picked up the tab.
Society has changed and now there are a lot of women working outside of the home & making more money. But the “natural” way of things has not changed. A lot of people, male & female, have a problem adapting to something that feels unnatural.
Cemeeli
January 21st, 2010
11:12 am
@LadyJ – Whew…glad i didn’t havta get in my personal on the blog. Dang girl!
M. (pronouced M dot)
January 21st, 2010
11:13 am
@SexyCool
No, you may not be able to name to the dollar a person’s salary, but as knowledgeable, practical adults we can, generally, have some idea about a person’s financial standing.”
This is not true. Yeah someone can be a teller, but I wouldnt automatically judge them and throw them in the tax bracket I think they belong in because you dont know, they could be living off a trust fund and dont want to sit at home all day, they could be a gigalo, they could be doing anything generating money outside of work. So at the end of the day we never really know so we shouldnt judge or assume anything.
Lady J
January 21st, 2010
11:14 am
hahahahaha ok ladies…..I will sit this one out and ok Raqi…I tell it is a process to be content when more is offered when you are just not use to it….I;m just an honest chick….ok back to being quiet!:)