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City & State or ZIP Tonight, this weekend, May 5th...
City & State or ZIP
City & State or ZIP Tonight, this weekend, May 5th...
City & State or ZIP

More Money, More Men?

One of our readers, “Anonymousella”, brought my attention to a recent NY Times article, More Men Marrying Wealthier Women.  I couldn’t stifle the snark, I’m sorry.  My first thought was, what took them so long!? Then I wondered exactly how many times my friends and I have discussed the real issues that would come with dating a less than successful man.

Just even typing that makes me cringe, because successful is one of those social code words for rich, wealthy, powerful. Women get criticized for wanting a man who is successful. We also get criticized for putting up with men who clearly have no ambition.  I’m not trying to be whiny, here. I’m just pointing out the fact that this is why a lot of single women have to drown out the crazy mixed “messages” about what we should and should not want in a mate.

I am curious about what messages men get from society (media?), family, or friends.  Would you ever hear criticism from anyone if you dated or married a woman who was not “successful”?  Generally, does it seem to matter more that she is a good homemaker and motherly?

The article states, “While marriage rates have declined over all, women with college degrees are still more likely to marry today than less educated women.”  I suppose that should be encouraging from me, the master degreed gal, but I have to admit, I haven’t noticed any advantage.

In fact, a friend of mine has a theory that men who were raised by single mothers who struggled, are more drawn to the same type of woman.  She believes that a guy would probably find a less educated, seemingly less sophisticated woman as an ideal match because she would offer more in terms of traditional marriage. What do you think of my friend’s theory?

The article ended with an interesting comment that one of the women heard from a male friend: “You are confident, have good credit, own your own business, travel around the world and are self-sufficient. What man is going to want you?”  Thoughts?

476 comments Add your comment

Leggs

January 21st, 2010
8:49 am

Sheesh…societal norms! If your souls connect, emotionally, intellectually, physically and spiritually, does your bank account really matter?

Leggs

January 21st, 2010
8:52 am

Haaaa, was just told off the blog that HELL YEAH YOUR BANK ACCOUNT MATTERS!

Dan - moving away from gray and back to black

January 21st, 2010
8:55 am

@WD

As the son of a single mother, your friend is on drugs- seriously.

I wouldn’t call for anyone to bear that struggle or weight alone, but at the same, I’m not trying to ’save’ anyone from a series of bad decisions either (and I know first hand that “things happen”).

I do value a woman with confidence and a proven competence in handling her issues. And any woman, regardless of income, that has the qualities that I’m looking for is all I ask.

As for the ‘mixed messages’, it comes down to the individual and how they define success. If the man you fall in love with works at McD’s but is happy, is he more or less successful than the miserable guy work 85+ hours a week in a law firm? Who’s better for you?

I think it will be a great day when people stop caring about what other folks think. No one else can live my life, so their opinions on my decisions don’t mean anything. If I’m happy that all that matters…

get your friend into charter…she needs some help

Oh, good morning

Cemeeli

January 21st, 2010
9:03 am

a theory that men who were raised by single mothers who struggled, are more drawn to the same type of woman. She believes that a guy would probably find a less educated, seemingly less sophisticated woman as an ideal match because she would offer more in terms of traditional marriage. What do you think of my friend’s theory?

Wow….just WOW!

Professor

January 21st, 2010
9:05 am

Hola!

I am going to give some real talk for a few sentences. I have dated guys that made less, and for the most part if you make 125K and he makes 35K it matters, because certain restaurants, activities and trips he is not going to be able to afford. That can be a problem. He wants to chill at home and you want to go somewhere and have a nice dinner in a nice spot and that $125 is his light bill money not play on the town money. It takes a strong person to get over this and it takes a stronger person to stand beside that strong woman.

Money matters whether we like it or not…it is cute at first saying as long as we are cool, or love will conquer all, but is that true.

Dan - moving away from gray and back to black

January 21st, 2010
9:06 am

@Prof

Question: if you really love the cat, would his pockets being light really affect your ‘tastes’ or do you think you could learn to adjust?

Cemeeli

January 21st, 2010
9:10 am

If the man you fall in love with works at McD’s but is happy, is he more or less successful than the miserable guy work 85+ hours a week in a law firm? Who’s better for you?

@ Dan – This statement is so true, cause even with an “acquired” man one could still be unhappy.

I’m handin’ dapps, and slaps all over your head boooooyyy! :)

…that’s what’s up!

Cemeeli

January 21st, 2010
9:14 am

@ Leggs – Okay so, there is a bank account, but what if nothings in there? What if that so called acquired person is a frivolous spender?

Still can be broke.

…oh…just sayin’.

Leggs

January 21st, 2010
9:16 am

Don’t I get some dapp, Ms. Cee??

Leggs

January 21st, 2010
9:17 am

Haaa, guess not! Not an empty bank account.

Nonya

January 21st, 2010
9:18 am

I’ve never had an issue with a man who makes less than me. I make significantly more than the last guy I dated and it didn’t bother me at all. However, it burned him to no end and he ended up bowing out of the relationship. I feel that as long as a man is gainfully and legally employed, we can work through the financial discrepancy. Sometimes what a man doesn’t have in income, he has in skills – the mechanic will fix my car, the cook will keep me fed, the landscaper will keep my yard nice, etc. It doesn’t always have to be about the money.

Cemeeli

January 21st, 2010
9:21 am

@ Leggs – My girl, you gets much looooove {{{{hugs}}}}}}.
I told you before, i look for your presence on this thing all the time.

Leggs…stop playin with me girl. :)

Willie Dynamite

January 21st, 2010
9:22 am

Morning All,

Wow, Just Wow is right. I am sure that there is a sizable portion of Society that subscribes to this mentality as stated in the research. This discussion could take off in several different places. Should be fun to read some of the responses.
As for me, I could care less. My happiness doesn’t depend on whether I make more than Wifey or not. How we interact and treat each other is paramount. As long as I make at least $60,001 I’m alright (hey Prof.:wink))A few yrs ago for a brief time the Wifey made more than I did. When we found out it was a non-issue. My only response was that now she could go to the store and buy the Turkey herself before she made my sammich:lol:
Seriously though, I don’t need a W-2 to let me know who’s the Man in my house. For the upwardly mobile (read;independent) Women and Insecure Men I can see where this can be a issue.

Professor

January 21st, 2010
9:28 am

Dan,

Question: if you really love the cat, would his pockets being light really affect your ‘tastes’ or do you think you could learn to adjust?

I look at things as they are. When I meet a guy I do not fall in love at first sight and readjust or remix my likes, dislikes and favorite hot spots because I met a man. With that said me and a suitor would probably never get to the love stage because we live in different worlds. That is just the reality of it…I would probably never meet him because we do not frequent the same places outside of QT. Most guys ask what do you enjoy, where do you hang out and that kind of stuff. Guess what that changes things especially the love thingy.

Quick story: A few years ago I met a really cool guy at football game party a mutual friend held. We tripped out the entire time and met a few weeks later. Well on that date I could tell dating him would put him out of his league. We still talk and he crack jokes about it is difficult to catch up with me and he wants to take me out, but I have him in the FZ, because he really cannot afford to hang out. I feel bad when we do hang out because he cannot afford to be there. So I kept it moving and kept him as a friend.

Cemeeli

January 21st, 2010
9:28 am

“Seriously though, I don’t need a W-2 to let me know who’s the Man in my house.”

Yea, cause it something about him buying the turkey meat (whether i make more or not) whether i know i can buy it with my card/mula or not…i wont the bill HE gave me to buy the meat….and that’ll send that simple ole turkey sandwich to a trillion.

Cause the household should be “in decency and in ORDER”!…there is an order to everything!…i don’t care how much more i, or he make.

Raqi

January 21st, 2010
9:28 am

Leggs, do that person know it you?

Dan I agree.

Professor I think if a woman dates a man that makes less yet she still chooses to go to the higher priced places then she should pay for those places.

Dan - moving away from gray and back to black

January 21st, 2010
9:32 am

@Prof

It’s one thing to not like the dude in a sexual way and relegate him to the FZ; I dig it.

But if I read you right, this particular situation came about because you felt that he wasn’t in your ‘league’? Was this the financial, intellectual, or cultural league?

Raqi

January 21st, 2010
9:33 am

Nonya, I agree. But I think a lot of men take pride in taking care of their family which usually means financially to them. Especially when it comes to the older (my age range and up) generation.

Now this younger group coming along are quite different. Not all but I think most. They are more geared toward a woman being exactly equal in everything from the pay check to the squares of toilet paper used.

NY2GA, Inc.

January 21st, 2010
9:34 am

“You are confident, have good credit, own your own business, travel around the world and are self-sufficient. What man is going to want you?”

Good grief. I’m getting a little tired of all these articles about “What Women Need To Do To Find and Keep a Man”, “Top Cities to Find a Man”, “Why Are So Many Women Single”, and the list goes on. Obviously the statement quotes above was written by a babbling, insecure idiot.

In my opinion it is important to have a happy, full life of your own. Go out explore things. Try new things. If you have a partner to share it with all the better. There are men that want women that dare to live their lives to the fullest and recognize that this thing called life is a growth process.

I truly believe that you are what you are fed. So, I have stopped reading these types of articles and just LIVE. Every man is different. Take them on a case by case basis. They all don’t feel like the fool that wrote that statement.

Dan - moving away from gray and back to black

January 21st, 2010
9:37 am

@NY2GA

Dude didn’t do nothing but show his insecurity in that question…

Professor

January 21st, 2010
9:37 am

I will say this when the difference is huge there is usually an issue from my experience. When my ex and I started talking marriage it was always thought that he made more than I did…well when we put our salaries on the table I made more… a lot more, and he could not deal with that at all.

There is one thing is she makes 70K and he makes 60K it is a whole ‘nother issue when he makes 30K and she makes 125K.

Dan - moving away from gray and back to black

January 21st, 2010
9:43 am

@Prof

So you’re taking the one (or few) cases of this response and applying to an entire gender?

for the record, I ain’t arguing with you babygirl, just trying to shine the light on the different options out there..

Nonya

January 21st, 2010
9:43 am

Raqi, I feel you on the pride issue, but it is what it is. If the woman makes more…well, that’s just what it is. I also agree with Willie Dynamite – the W2 shouldn’t define the man. Pride should come from being legally/gainfully employed and taking care of his family to the best of his ability with the means & resources that he has.

Professor

January 21st, 2010
9:46 am

But if I read you right, this particular situation came about because you felt that he wasn’t in your ‘league’? Was this the financial, intellectual, or cultural league?

Dan

Financially he was in piss poor shape due to bad intellectual decisions. A lot of times there is a correlations in the two such as this case.

@Raqi I have no problem with treating someone to dinner, however there is something uneven when he gets away with buying me 10 hotwings and I am buying fried lobster tails…it is not a match. Maybe if we knew each other prior and this is just where we are now, but to me that is starting off on the wrong foot.

I think the obvious here is this, you cannot put these expectations on a new relationship if I was married or in a long term relationship that is one thing, but I am not starting off that way if it is obvious and a problem for me…

DreamsMaterialize

January 21st, 2010
9:46 am

Morning
guy would probably find a less educated, seemingly less sophisticated woman
How exactly does less educated translate into less sophisticated? There’s a slew of “educated” people who lack sophistication. Look at the King family right now. How about the clowns on the school board in Clayton County? Or what about the debacle where the Lithonia City Council locked the mayor out of the city capital building and called the police on her? Didn’t mayor Campbell get convicted? How about mayor Kwame Kilpatrick? Bunch of clowns, no sophistication. Just give me a woman who has drive, character, and a genuine love for me. Everything else is cake at that point.

NY2GA, Inc.

January 21st, 2010
9:47 am

@Professor.

Well, that shows alot. I think if you’re talking marriage finances should not be looked as individual parts, but a sum of its’ parts. So, to me we’d be talkin’ 130K and 155K. But, yes some men do have a problem with the numbers if they’re tilted more heavily on the woman’s side.

However, there are some men that look beyond the numbers and see the possibilities. They think “if she accomplished this without me imagine what we can do together.” That’s THAT dude.

Good day folks-

CoolShadow

January 21st, 2010
9:50 am

I’m just pointing out the fact that this is why a lot of single women have to drown out the crazy mixed “messages” about what we should and should not want in a mate.

That’s part of the problem; women (and men) should internally develop and focus on what they want in a mate as opposed to listening to external forces to influence your thought process on the type of person they think is compatible for you.

Would you ever hear criticism from anyone if you dated or married a woman who was not “successful”?

Probably, but what is the definition of “successful”? That can be very abstract thing to define with all the variables you can use to shape your definition.

I read the article and thought it was interesting but wondered how far I’d read into the article before some woman claimed some guy she dated was intimidated by her success (not long at all). Sometimes these women and their self-importance are not fun to be around and not so much of intimidation.

In fact, a friend of mine has a theory that men who were raised by single mothers who struggled, are more drawn to the same type of woman. She believes that a guy would probably find a less educated, seemingly less sophisticated woman as an ideal match because she would offer more in terms of traditional marriage. What do you think of my friend’s theory?

I think your friend’s theory is misguided. Not trying to cast aspersions, but that theory sounds like it came from an educated, well-salaried and childless woman who may have lost out for a man to another woman who was a single mom on a lower socioeconomic stratus and is perceived by Wise’s friend to be beneath her and a less desirable catch than she is. In short, she casted a catch-all theory based on the man’s background to justify why maybe he wasn’t that into her. Or maybe he was intimidated by her success… ;)

Leggs

January 21st, 2010
9:52 am

What are you asking me, Raqi?

Leggs

January 21st, 2010
9:55 am

@CoolShadow ~ “Not trying to cast aspersions” – stop stealing Dan’s words. :wink:

Professor

January 21st, 2010
9:55 am

Dan,

So you’re taking the one (or few) cases of this response and applying to an entire gender?

No I am not applying it to an entire gender…that is why I said “usually.”

You are good…I am not yelling :wink:

At the end of the day I know it is my prerogative if I do not want to date the fry man at Mickey D’s and use his Marta card to window shop at Saks. I am good with seeing potential in people and there was only once that I dated someone and it worked and he made much less than me…it never came up because we had fun we just enjoyed each other, but I will never forget him saying I wish I had your job…I was like huh, and he told me why…it was a shocker to me at that moment

Luvbug

January 21st, 2010
9:56 am

“We’ve known for some time that men need marriage more than women from the standpoint of physical and mental well-being”.

I believe this statement from the NYT article is true…so far…in the sense that I think it benefits men more.

successful is one of those social code words for rich, wealthy, powerful.

This is where the rubber meets the road. Everybody has a different interpretation of success…and though I don’t mind being friends with people who have a interpretation than me, I can’t be in a long term gig with one (PERIOD)

That’s major!!!

Would you ever hear criticism from anyone if you dated or married a woman who was not “successful”?

This question was intended for the guys, but I have experienced being considered the woman who was/is “unsuccessful” and the definition of success was/is usually the key to the conflict.

Melo

January 21st, 2010
9:59 am

the miserable guy work 85+ hours a week in a law firm? Who’s better for you?

does he have to be miserable coz hes working 85+ hours or thats ur subjective opinion…

Isnt long hard and ardous hours the pathway to success in some most professions.

If u want something so bad,u go get it!

And u happy at doing it..

Leggs

January 21st, 2010
9:59 am

@DreamsM ~ Well Said!

DreamsMaterialize

January 21st, 2010
9:59 am

It’s funny that in these conversations about salary you almost never hear the guys say that it would be a problem if his woman made significantly less than he did. Why does it matter to women (not all), but not to men? I think it might have a little to do with numbers. Men tend to make more than women. So, from a woman’s perspective, ruling out men who make less than her doesn’t affect the population of available men that much. But as a man, if I ruled out all the women who make less than I do, my dating population would be severely limited.

CoolShadow

January 21st, 2010
10:01 am

@Leggs – How about, “I ain’t tryna start nuthin, BUT…” ;)

Dan - moving away from gray and back to black

January 21st, 2010
10:04 am

@Melo

There are some people that work those hours and are happy about it, and some not.

In my example, I stipulated that the person was not happy working the hours.

SexyCool - I feel too damn good, see...ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo!

January 21st, 2010
10:05 am

I got a GREAT start to a rainy day. So, I’m just gone sit over here in the corner and sing along to Miss Mary J!!!!

Back off of me
That negativity
Don’t wanna hear what your saying
I’m gon’ dance away my drama
So you best get out my way (Hey-ye-eh!)
I feel good!
Like the moon is shining just for me
ToDAY I’m fly as I can be

Raqi

January 21st, 2010
10:06 am

Professor, I understand that. But just for the sake of conversation, would you feel it is balanced if he paid for more outings than you? Let’s just say you are with a guy that makes 1/2 of your earnings and you two went out every weekend for a month. Do you feel it would be balanced if you all did things that he could afford for three of those weekends while the fourth weekend you all did something you could afford?

That’s sorta how I try to stay looking at things. I may do more smaller things around the house but my husband’s one or two larger contributions evens it out. One example, if I paid all of the utilities and he paid the mortgage, although he only paid one bill it was more than all that I paid put together.

Do you get what I am asking? Would that type of situation work with you?

Raqi

January 21st, 2010
10:06 am

LOL SexyCool.

M. (pronouced M dot)

January 21st, 2010
10:08 am

@Professor & everyone

Ok so lets flip it. In your 9:05 post, you mentioned that

“I have dated guys that made less, and for the most part if you make 125K and he makes 35K it matters, because certain restaurants, activities and trips he is not going to be able to afford. That can be a problem.”

What do you think is going to change if you date/marry a guy with alot of money? Are you expecting a huge lifestyle shift? Contrary to what people think, alot of people with money tend to be quite frugal. Is it your understanding that just because he has money, he is going to be throwing it all at you? What if he married you for you and was interesting in building a life with you while maintaing your seperate finances? Of course the bills would be paid etc, but you would driving your same car and you would NOT be the next Real Housewife of Atlanta? And he loved you just the same. Would that be a problem?

Lets keep it real.

Cemeeli

January 21st, 2010
10:09 am

Isnt long hard and ardous hours the pathway to success in some most professions.

No Melo – 85+ hours to “get there” does not have to be the pathway.

What i derived from Dan’s statement is; Even though by social standards a person working hard to get it, and a person’s misreable personal life go hand and hand. You work long and hard for the so called “success” at work, but do you that same vigor in your personal/relationships?

M. (pronouced M dot)

January 21st, 2010
10:09 am

@ WD

“Women get criticized for wanting a man who is successful.”

That is true and men get criticized and made to feel shallow because they want a undisputable attractive woman. Sometimes it’s all in the eye of the beholder; yes but also it’s some women that will not be denied. They are gorgeous and if a guy has a chance to get her, he will. The thing is women want a guy with his paper together, men want a real attractive woman to be with if they are going to be locked down forever.

“a friend of mine has a theory that men who were raised by single mothers who struggled, are more drawn to the same type of woman.”

I think your friend’s theory is very shallow. I was raised by a single mother but that wasn’t going to limit me in my future, goals, choices of women, etc. I will still aim high no matter what. I learned a lot of valuable lessons from my mom.

Also can we see a picture of your friend who made the comment? I would like to see what she looks like. Is she still at home single and eating bon bons? Or are guys fighting to get with her? Just asking.

Also why are people so caught up on the bank accounts? That’s the problem. Alot of people (especially women) like the IDEA of marriage; a day you get to show off in front of all your family and friends that you got “Choose”, attending couples only events, trying to be a power couple, yada yada yada. But alot of women RULES of marriage. Just yesterday, I heard a woman even say on the radio that women have a problem with the S word…submissve..

Also regarding money, if yall are married, isnt it all community property and there is no need to keep score? If you make $110,000 and he makes $60,000, then you guys bring in $170,000. That’s the household income. Isnt it ours, and not mine?

M. (pronouced M dot)

January 21st, 2010
10:16 am

@Professor

“because he really cannot afford to hang out. ”

What “hot spots” are you referring to exactly? You have to remember Atlanta is a small bouji city and you can only do so much. Unless you are at the 4 seasons for brunch everyday.

SexyCool - I feel too damn good, see...ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo!

January 21st, 2010
10:16 am

I will say this though, a dude who makes less than me certainly could not support me or a family without my help. (Been there, done that – know what I’m talking about.)

With that being said, I prefer to date someone who at least matches my earning capacity so that in the event of something unforeseen, one of us could support the other at a fairly acceptable level.

And until I start making a helluva lot more money, I really don’t think I, personally, have very much to worry about on my much appreciated mid-40’s salaray.

Raqi

January 21st, 2010
10:19 am

Mdot, I think the problem these days is folks are so concerned with being scared they are doing more than the next person. Financially more than anything. Those days of couples just putting their money together, building a life, paying the bills living happily ever after have gone.

You (not you literally)…but you are busy looking over in her pocket and she is looking over in your pocket trying to make sure your penny matches hers. Now I don’t think one party of the union should have to struggle while the other has the means to make up the difference for them. That’s just not right. But they should find a way to live comfortably where neither party has to suffer. No matter who makes more. That is what coupling used to be about.

SexyCool - I feel too damn good, see...ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo!

January 21st, 2010
10:19 am

Speaking of hanging out at The A’s bourgeious spots – TheDude took me to a new spot off of Piedmont last night – Room Service. They had a really nice cover band performing last night. The singer’s name is Eva Kennedy. She used to perform at TGI Friday’s on Camp Creek. The band’s name is NAMELESS. They are worth checking out.

Cemeeli

January 21st, 2010
10:20 am

uhmmmm Dan i appreciate the words your using today. Didn’t think you used simple vocabs.

auight.

SexyCool - I feel too damn good, see...ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo!

January 21st, 2010
10:21 am

Conan O’Brien gets $45mil to quit his job. I am certain that I should have picked Late Night Talk Show Host as a career.

Professor

January 21st, 2010
10:23 am

M. dot if you read me you know I deal with realities….I don’t sit around daydreaming and fantasying. I can tell you this there is a problem for the most part if there is a big difference in pay structure. On the outside looking in if you make 150K and your BF makes 30K she is not going to hang out and do as much as you do. The same with single people with no children trying to hangout with a single person with two children the freedom is not there.

So all of that RHOA I don’t watch it or deal with it I deal with reality. Keeping it real is dealing with reality.

BTW I think we all have read the millionaire next door so we know about being frugal, but that is an option for them…money brings options.

Melo—yes some of us put in work to get where we are at, and we are happy we did.

Raqi

January 21st, 2010
10:25 am

SexyCool, what you said makes sense based on what a person makes. It would be hard for a person making $20-25-30,000 to support a family on their own.

But wouldn’t you say that could be how a lot of men are looking at it now based on the article Wise mentioned? Are guys now looking at it in terms of would the woman be able to sustain the household should he lose his employment (savings aside)?