Should the Braves keep Brian McCann? For one year, yes
Brian McCann packs his gear. (AJC photo by Phil Skinner)
Brian McCann underwent shoulder surgery Tuesday and is expected to miss four to six months. This came at an awkward moment for both player and club. The Braves have until three days after the World Series ends to exercise their option to keep McCann for the 2013 season at $12 million. Should they decline, McCann would become a free agent.
To allow McCann to walk away — it’s doubtful he would be responsive to any Braves’ overture to re-sign at a lower price — is within the Braves’ contractual rights. Letting him leave, however, would not be in their best immediate interests.
Even as we stipulate that the McCann of the past 15 months has been a shadow of the man who made the All-Star team six years running, we must also acknowledge that, assuming a return to health, he’s an above-average catcher. The worthy backup David Ross notwithstanding, the Braves will need a No. 1 catcher in 2013.
Asked Wednesday if McCann’s surgery will affect the Braves’ choice, general manager Frank Wren said via phone: “It’s not a topic I’m discussing. We have three guys who have options, and we never discuss the decision to pick up an option until the deadline date.”
Which makes corporate sense: Why say anything until you’re required to say it? But there seems no compelling reason not to keep McCann for one year more, and no, to answer the next question, saving $12 million isn’t reason enough.
There are times when it might have been. The Braves traded Javier Vazquez, who’d finished fourth in the National League Cy Young balloting, in December 2009 because they weren’t crazy about paying another $11.5 million. This offseason is different. Chipper Jones retired, taking his $14 million salary with him. Derek Lowe’s partially offloaded contract is expiring, so that’s another $10 million. Jair Jurrjens, whose career fizzle is the strangest this franchise has seen since Nick Esasky got vertigo, is surely gone, and that’s $5.5 million. Michael Bourn, who made $6.8 million in 2012, is expected to demand nearly three times that in free agency, and it’s unlikely the Braves will meet his price.
Besides, the Braves had always planned to keep McCann through 2013, so it’s not as if this $12 million catches them by surprise. In sum, this is the first time since Liberty Media bought the club that money is less an object.
That’s the financial side. As for the physical: Catchers tend to age fast, and McCann hasn’t been nearly as good lately. (He was benched for the Braves’ one and only postseason game, a move once unthinkable.) Some of his decline — according to Baseball-Reference.com, McCann’s wins-over-replacement number this past season was a tepid 0.6; Dan Uggla’s was 2.7 — can be traced to injury. But how much?
That’s surely what the Braves will spend 2013 trying to determine. There will be no option attached to McCann next fall. Either he’s re-signed to a new contract or he’s a free agent. For a team that has reason to question the wisdom of re-upping the 30-year-old Uggla for five years at $62 million, the matter of what to do with a catcher who’s approaching 30 will be even more problematic.
Loading ...On the one hand, McCann has been a great servant — really good player, really good teammate, really good guy. On the other, he’ll be a catcher approaching 30, and with the younger Freddie Freeman at first base there’s no other positional landing spot. McCann’s best bet, at least monetarily, might be to look to the American League, where he could double as a designated hitter.
By autumn 2013, the Braves also will have a better feel for Christian Bethancourt, who’s 21 and ranked by MLB.com as the organization’s No. 2 prospect. Bethancourt isn’t ready — he hit .243 with an on-base percentage of .275 in Class AA and broke his left hand to boot — but he’s considered such a good defender that he stands to get a big-league look soon.
Ultimately the Braves will face the decision: To stick with the older and more expensive McCann, or to tap the younger and cheaper Bethancourt as the new No. 1? If McCann doesn’t return to form in 2012, the answer will be obvious. If he does, nothing will be obvious.
One year after losing Chipper, a B-Mac exit would be tough to take. That said, the quickest way to clog a payroll is to keep players who don’t figure to be half as good by the time their contracts lapse. Given that McCann isn’t yet 29, the Braves have every reason to bet $12 million that he’ll be better next year. The tougher call will be when they have to ask (and they will soon): How good will Brian McCann be at 34?
By Mark Bradley
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286 comments Add your comment
Tomahawkin
October 18th, 2012
12:53 pm
Mister Frisky
“Considering the performance or lack there of in October,no one should be safe as it pertains to making this team October clutch.”
Co-Sign!
BravesFanSince80s
October 18th, 2012
12:58 pm
Reckingball: you’re probably right, if Wren picks up McCann’s option, there won’t have been any brains involved:)
derek k
October 18th, 2012
12:58 pm
David Wright serves and
1- good guy and would fit in as a brave
2-Right handed and hits for average and power <– something we need!
3-An awesome 3b
If we could great if we cant oh well. But i have always liked D Wright. But it prob wont happen.
It would be awesome to get him and Ryan Braun! both power and average guys then WS here we come! haha
derek k
October 18th, 2012
1:00 pm
David Wright *would be a great fit…*
1- good guy and would fit in as a brave
2-Right handed and hits for average and power <– something we need!
3-An awesome 3b
If we could great if we cant oh well. But i have always liked D Wright. But it prob wont happen.
It would be awesome to get him and Ryan Braun! both power and average guys then WS here we come! haha
BravesFanSince80s
October 18th, 2012
1:03 pm
did you really just say Ryan Braun?!!!!!!!!!! The posterboy for effective modern PED use? If he were a Brave, I’d take out a second mortgage on my house and get season tickets just so I could throw a bag of hypodermic needles at him every time he plays! Ryan Braun? NO WAY!
BurgerBrave12
October 18th, 2012
1:13 pm
Braves should definitely decline the option for $13 Mil for 1 season. Then re-offer McCann a 2 year contract worth $7 million per season with a 1 year option worth $4 million. Braves would pay him less per year, get a catcher for 2-3 more years, and Brian ultimately gets more money in the end. By then we’ll know if his career as a catcher is truly done.
bill
October 18th, 2012
1:15 pm
every year the same regrets and the same conversation. Love you DOB but noone knows whats going to happen and whether Bourne will hit >320 or go to rehab to guard Willingham. We won 94 games this year and most though 82 was probably where we would be. The real question is what are the Nationals doing to improve the team with the best regular season record. This one and out does not need to become a bad habit.
Defense wins Championships
October 18th, 2012
1:49 pm
What everyone has to ask is “Would l sign that check?” Sorry, l can’t. BMc has not earned 12 mill in the last 3 years, he won’t next year. l want players on the Braves, who earn their pay. Uggla gone, Hanson gone, Jurrjens gone, Bourne gone l can’t sign his check either. If GM Wrenn will spend the money wisely and get some men who play and earn their pay, The Braves will be Monsters to face our opponents. Freeman 1B, Prado 2B, Simmons SS, Francisco 3B, Heyward RF, new catcher 1 yr contract to Bethancourt, 2 stud 300+avg hitters with pop. Pitching and Bullpen are great. Janish, Reed Johnson, Mejia, catcher, Jeff Baker? on bench. Go Braves
Hanan
October 18th, 2012
2:08 pm
I think Bourne has to go to. 270 something for a leadoff guy who strikes out ALL the time and disappears down the stretch? Not worth 10 mil or 6 mil. Maybe 3-4 mil.
No steroid users please! No Braun, no Melky. Let them go to abusive organizations like New York, Boston, or Texas.
Let McCann and Bourne go, trade Uggla if you can. Either land top notch proven players or trade Uggla for prospects and save that $$$ for the 2014 free agent market.
With our pitching we need to focus on filling a lineup that has guys who get on base and put the ball in play. Guys that can hit to the opposite field and put down a sac bunt or hit a sac fly.
Dick Dodge
October 18th, 2012
2:12 pm
If the Braves were to overwhelm David Wright with a $20 mil-$22 mil a year offer for 5-6 years….I feel that Wright would entertain the possibility of signing with the Braves. Dude wants to win….which he will never do with the Mets.
Braves line-up with both Wright and Cody Ross (at $8-$10 mil a year for 3 years)…and packing Uggla and Hanson in a trade…as well as declining McCann’s option:
1. Bourn (CF)………..$13 mil
2. Prado (2nd)………….7 mil
3. Heyward (RF)……….4 mil
4. David Wright………..22 mil
5. Freeman (1st)………..500K
6. Cody Ross (LF)……..9 mil
7. Simmons (SS)………400K
8. Ross/Bentecourt (C)..4 mil
My starting 8 would cost us around $60 mil.
We dont have to replace McCann. Just put the dollars into upgrading another position (David Wright would provide more offense than Chipper at 3rd….Cody Ross more power than Prado in left..and Prado more offense than Uggla at 2nd).
Bourn, regardless of the fact that Boras is representing him…will get somewhere around $12-$13 mil a year. Lead-off hitters with no power DO NOT command $15 mil a year. Show me one example of that.
Uggla can be packaged in a trade. He does have a high OBP…plus he’s healthy. Some team will absorb his salary…especially if they can also get Tommy Hanson in return. While it could come back to hurt us if Hanson rebounds….the fact is that he’s due a huge raise in arbitration…plus we need to free ourselves from Uggla’s salary..so we can direct the combined $16-$17 mil that Uggla and Hanson are scheduled to make in 2013, to improving our offense.
Starting 5 pitching:
1. Medlen………….$3 mil
2. Hudson……………9 mil
3. Maholm…………..7 mil
4. Minor………………..500K
5. Teheran/Delgado or some bum off the scrapyard until Beachy returns….$500K
My starting 5 would cost us $20 mil. When combined with the $60 mil for our starting 8 line-up (plus Bentencourt)…would cost us $80 mil for 14 players…leaving around $10 mil left over to sign the bullpen and bench players (11 players)…which is very doable.
My line-up gives us GREAT flexibility when it comes to lefty-right balance. Plus the economics fit.
Bye-bye McCann, Uggla and Hanson. Hello healthy line-up with consistent power from the #3-#6 slots of the order..preceded by the table setters in Bourn and Prado.
I know that I advocated for the signing of Josh Hamilton. However, if David Wright were to become signable….he would be a better fit (playing 3rd and having right handed power….especially if the Braves were able to shed Uggla’s salary).
Hanan
October 18th, 2012
2:57 pm
Dick Dodge, you said it man! That is a great plan, though I worry about having enough left over to sign the bench and bullpen. If you let born go, put Ross in centerfield you could find a nice LF or 2B for about 6-8 million and move Prado to whichever position is open. That would free up another 5-7 million for the bench and bullpen (15-17 million total), which might allow you to extend the contracts on some guys like Kimbrel and Flaharty.
By the end of the year, we may have to figure out a place for Gattis too. Kid’s could very well hit his way on the roster this year. That would solve your catcher problem or leftfield problem, but would at least give you a reserve/pinch hitter at a discount price.
Klaus
October 18th, 2012
3:23 pm
wright has an team option they intend to pick up so i am not sure what folks think he will be available. if they pick up the option and trade him (bc they cannot work out a deal) he will not be traded in the division – even if it means taking a lessor package.
Now if the Mets tell Wright take this new extension or we won’t pick up your option then he will be a FA and likely command 18-20mm a year at a min.
Klaus
October 18th, 2012
3:26 pm
Bourn will get 14-15mm bc of SB and he hit a ton in the 1H of the season. He faded a bit but that could be attributed to the Braves offense being unbalanced and putting too much pressure on a lead off guy to drive in runs versus table set.
BJ Upton in CF is a much better option. Younger, more pop, more upside and likely cheaper bc he has been a bit up n down over the past 3 years.
FLUSH Him on out......
October 18th, 2012
4:08 pm
Flush B Mac on out with the rest of the waste surrounding Gimper Jones……he is used up and on his way down……spend the money on some young really hungry young hitters who have enough grit and spit about them to get out and really play ball and not whine about this hurting and that hurting…..he has done a good job in past seasons (except this past season) so it is time to give him his walking papers and bring up some more young talent.
Braint
October 18th, 2012
4:12 pm
See if McCann will sign for $8 million instead of the $12…..his best asset was his offense because his defense isn’t really that good. If he can’t hit – which he’s shown over the last 1.5 years – than what’s the point in keeping him? Our pitching will be better next year, Freeman and Heyward will be looking to explode, Prado is Prado, we get a full year of Simmons, Uggla is servicable for a 2nd baseman (He’s expensive but productive if he can keep his K’s lower). Go after a LF (offer contract to a clean Melky), a CF (make offer to Pagan), and let’s roll….
BravesfaninAugusta
October 18th, 2012
4:15 pm
Actually I say, No don’t pick up the option
BravesfaninAugusta
October 18th, 2012
4:19 pm
Dick Dodge: Love your ideas… I will be very pleased if Wren doesn’t bring BMac back… The dude is done was overrated anyway
space monkey
October 18th, 2012
4:59 pm
I’m not a huge fan. He’s terrible on defense, and I believe the shift has killed his offense, since he refuses to bunt, but a one-year option is a no-brainer.
David Puddy
October 18th, 2012
5:04 pm
“,.but a one-year option is a no-brainer……”
I agree. It always is when it’s somebody else’s money.
David Puddy
October 18th, 2012
5:07 pm
If you could net out the offense allowed by his poor defense….well, the offensive numbers would near the ordinary level for a typical MLB catcher.
Teddy B
October 18th, 2012
5:34 pm
I’m 50/50 on McCann. He’s always hurt with a strained muscle and he needs to be on a club where he can DH. The NL needs to adopt the DH, we lose all of our stars and superstars to the AL as they age, its getting old. And also there is a chance that the surgery may not completely heal his shoulder issues and we may lose $12 million for nothing if we take on his option. Its risky.
As for Bourn, let him walk. He played so poorly after the All-Star break that I wouldn’t even pay him $10 million a year. Scott Boras wants way too much for an average CF who has no power at all. Thanks for playing with us for a year and a half but we’re done with you. Good Luck out there, kid.
We need to stay focused on our young talent and get ready to offer them extensions. We need to lock up Jason Heyward, Freddie Freeman, and Kimbrel for years so don’t blow that money on multi-year deals for aging stars who may end up washed up like JJ and contribute nothing.
Ron
October 18th, 2012
5:35 pm
What in world! Let’s see we can’t keep Bourne because he will be too expensive but we could afford Josh Hamiliton?! Don’t make laugh! Sign Pagan or Victorino for CF, Sign Cody Ross or Trade for Josh Willingham for LF. Put Prado at 3rd. of course you sign McCann, he’s 1 season from being an All-Star and hitting 20 homeruns, he’s been injured season and a half. He’s a gamer, Georgia boy, handles the pitchers well and a team leader! A no-brainer!!
Norwegian Blue
October 18th, 2012
5:58 pm
I’ve been a Braves fan for 30 years and good guys like McCann just don’t grow on trees.I know this is a business, but I would sign him to a 3-year deal out of loyalty. Best case he returns to form. Worst case he becomes a valuable veteran backup and mentors Betancourt.
Screw Loyalty - Value Production
October 18th, 2012
6:40 pm
The boy’s best days are over! Face it! It’s a business and the real value is what have you done for me lately – as in this last season – HERO to ZERO! Let him go….don’t waste money on a broken down old horse the way we did on Gimper Jones who could only play every 3 or 4 days…..FLUSH HIM OUT & SEND FREDI WITH HIM!
derek k
October 18th, 2012
7:47 pm
BravesFanSince80s Yea i just said Ryan Braun! Why not? He was never proven guilty.
BravesFanSince80s
October 18th, 2012
8:04 pm
are you dillusional? they couldn’t prove he was innocent (because he wasn’t) so instead attempted to villify a respected member of the medical community and in the process jumped through a loophole in the system and avoided a suspension. The guy is garbage. Leave him in Sausageville where he belongs!
BravesFanSince80s
October 18th, 2012
8:08 pm
@Ron, we could “afford” to sign Bourn to a huge extension with all the money coming off the books next year (same reason people are calling for players like David Wright or Josh Hamilton be signed) but the Braves will never pay him what he’ll get from wealthier teams because to us, he simply isn’t worth what those teams will pay. I like Bourn, but he strikes out too much to be a premier leadoff guy and his speed is wasted on a team that Fredi Gonzalez manages anyway and I think Frank Wren saw that last year as well…
David Puddy
October 18th, 2012
9:26 pm
Keep it short and sweet. Nobody in their right mind will waste time reading 1000 word postings. Am I wrong? No on Bourne and McCann.
David Puddy
October 18th, 2012
9:27 pm
Look what overpaying has gotten the Yankees again.
the truth...
October 18th, 2012
9:31 pm
@Mark Bradley
Why do we have to read about THE SURGERY AND WHAT IT FOUND…..on CNN rather on the AJC?
Ironicly it is an AP article that CNN published that so far I have seen nothing so detailed on any AJC article or blog….
Got an answer?
ATLANTA (AP) — Brian McCann’s agent says the Braves catcher expects to be “completely healthy” for the 2013 season following surgery on his right shoulder.
McCann’s rehabilitation could last six months, so his status for the opening month of next season is uncertain. The Braves, meanwhile, must decide this month on their $12 million option on McCann for 2013.
Tuesday’s surgery by Dr. Xavier Duralde repaired McCann’s torn labrum. The Braves say the tear was larger than expected.
McCann’s agent, B.B. Abbott, told The Associated Press on Wednesday the six-time All-Star is “extremely encouraged” that Duralde’s report calls for a complete recovery.
McCann is expected to return to light baseball activities in about four months. The full clearance could come two months later in April, the season’s opening month.
Copyright 2012 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
the truth...
October 18th, 2012
9:34 pm
NOTE….THE LABRUM WAS TORN…..not just frayed……..maybe Brian being able to “feel the pain himself” made him know surgery was imminent whereas Wren couldn’t possibly know how badly it hurt…
tmc
October 18th, 2012
10:00 pm
This just in…
-teams don’t just trade MVP’s or their best player. So you can rule out Braun (i had to laugh at that one) and Wright.
-if the Braves don’t want to afford Bourn, they are not going to pay Hamilton more than Bourn.
-yeah McCann is a good guy… I don’t get paid small bucks being a good guy. Why do you think the Braves should pay him top dollar for a catcher producing very poorly? (that is small town thinking)
Pay Prado, find a LF, resign D. Ross and either a new catcher or McCann for 4-7 million each, IMPROVE THE BENCH!, retain the bullpen and add one or two more.
-McCann’s 13 million can help any one of these solutions or little bit of all of them.
Mister Frisky
October 18th, 2012
10:52 pm
Watching St.Louis makes you realize Braves have a long way to go before they can be taken seriously in October.
tyger
October 18th, 2012
11:13 pm
Uggla for A-rod!!!
the truth...
October 18th, 2012
11:38 pm
@Mister Frisky
………apparently the rumors of you demise were greatly exagerated….
reckingball
October 19th, 2012
12:47 am
BFS80s @12:58pm……..”there won’t have been any brains involved:)”
kinda like most of your comments.
Ha, sorry, couldn’t pass that up. I kid.
smooth
October 19th, 2012
6:48 am
I have yet to hear McCann say that he would be willing to do whatever is necessary to remain a Brave, so it is time we make him an offer of much less money and see if he is willing to stay a Brave. (If he is not, let him go) He is damaged and has never been a good defensive catcher.} He does not deserve the money that he will get if we keep him this year.
David Puddy
October 19th, 2012
7:36 am
“Watching St.Louis makes you realize Braves have a long way to go before they can be taken seriously in October.”
This is true. The Braves as a team look nothing like a coherent, well balanced team. More like a bunch of individuals swinging for the fences…..and the majority looking like out of shape bubbas. Very striking difference.
David Puddy
October 19th, 2012
7:38 am
“so it is time we make him an offer of much less money and see if he is willing to stay a Brave.ure”
He will cling on to that option until his fingers bleed……no way is he negotiating downward.
pj
October 19th, 2012
8:36 am
Why wouldnt they keep him………….they kept Chipper for years hurt!!!!!!!!!!!! One bad season is nothing to worry about. He played hurt most of season because they do not have a back up catcher that can play everyday!!!!!!! I would dare to say nobody on this blog would be as good as BMAC even when he is hurt. How about all you haters catch with a torn labrum & cyst in the shoulder on your throwing arm and see how well you do!!!!!!!!
Hanan
October 19th, 2012
9:46 am
We might have been overpaying some, but Chipper was usually the best offensive tool we had, even the last few years. That yearly .400+ OBP and .500+ slugging was unique on this team. The guy was the only player in the lineup who thought about “situations” before stepping in the box, recognized when pitchers were trying to throw around him, took his walks rather than chasing bad pitches, I hit the ball to the opposite field. You could see over the last couple of years that he taught those traits to guys like Freeman and Heyward (McCann apparently wasn’t paying attention). I think we actually led the NL in BB’s this year and Freeman (and especially Heyward) have come leaps and bounds in their ability to take walks and drive the ball the other way. The money we spent keeping Chipper around the last few years was not wasted, in my opinion, because he helped groom some of these younger guys.
McCann is NOT that type of guy though! I don’t want him in the cage giving pointers to our younger hitters and I certainly do NOT want him teaching our up and coming catchers how to field their position. There’s not “loyalty” issue here. We “loyally” paid him millions of dollars and met every stipulation of his contract. In return, though I’m sure he gave his best effort while on the field, he never improved his defensive game and didn’t bother to stay in shape. We are now done conducting business with you. We wish you the best of luck, but we cannot afford to risk 13 million dollars on a damaged product that may be irreparable.
Hanan
October 19th, 2012
10:25 am
for 13 million a year I bet everybody on this thread could keep themselves in good shape. Here are the pros and cons, as I see them:
Pro’s
-has hit for decent power and good average
-is a nice guy
Con’s
-doesn’t keep himself in good shape
-is prone to bodily injuries-back and shoulder (maybe related to not keeping himself in good shape)
-is a below average defensive catcher
-is nearly 30, when most catchers see a noticeable decline in performance
-costs you 12 million a year, now the second highest player on the team
-just underwent major surgery and won’t be able to swing a bat until April 2013 (big unknown!)
-CAN’T HIT THE BALL THE OPPOSITE WAY! Now has to find a hole in a stacked right side of the field.
-has a history of eye problems
-is incredibly, unthinkably slow
Did I miss anything? To me, this is an easy decision. The cons far, FAR outweigh the pros. The risk of “if he returns to form” is not worth committing 12 million to.
Mister Frisky
October 19th, 2012
11:08 am
@the truth…I spit truth,I’ve never been a liar.And I won’t stop posting till I retire.
BravesFanSince80s
October 19th, 2012
12:42 pm
Hanan@10:25, VERY well put…
Mixxo
October 19th, 2012
2:30 pm
Hanan@10:25, VERY well put…
Agree totally.
Let him go and lets improve. The guy is d-o-n-e.
rico carty
October 19th, 2012
2:37 pm
McCann is a great guy and has been a great player, but kind of a no-brainer here, especially with his injury. You have to let him go now and save $11.5M. Get a servicable catcher somewhere who combined with Ross can get the job done defensively. What McCann gives you, you’ve already go..good lefthanded power. Use that money, Chipper’s money, and Lowe’s money and fill your needs. Absolute no-brainer for a team on a budget.
LawDawg
October 19th, 2012
2:57 pm
WAR is a completely meaningless statistic and is not worth citing for any reason.
Based on WAR, replacing Cabrera with a AAA journeyman would only have cost about 6 games for the Tigers. Can you imagine the Tigers being a .500 team this year without Cabrera?
HB#1
October 19th, 2012
3:34 pm
Well ALL the players on the club contribute to the teams victories. If I remember correctly Cabrera’s WAR number for this season was actually 7.4. Which is great. His presence was directly responsible for the Tigers winning 88 games and making the playoffs verses winning 81 games and finishing third in your division. Think about this. What would you expect the Tigers record to have been were they to have replaced every starter in the lineup, and their starters and relievers, with the AAA club? Maybe 20 or 30 wins, right? Well if you subtract the WAR numbers from all the Tigers starters and pitchers this season, it comes to a team total of about 65; meaning that the cumulative WAR rating for all the members of the team is just about right on the money.
See, you are looking at one small aspect; one individuals numbers and trying to expound on the meaninglessness of the stat. But you have to look at the whole picture. If you give Cabrera a 25 WAR because you “think” that’s how valuable he is, then you have to give Fielder a 18 WAR, and Verlander a 16 WAR, etc. etc. etc, pretty soon your cumulative team WAR for the Tigers is something like 120; way over the actual number of wins the Tigers had. This means that your statistics predict that the Tigers AAA club would somehow find a way to go 0-194 while only playing a 162 game season. And that would just make your statistic look stupid and pointless. So what you want is a statistic that assigns a WAR number that still remains relevant when you add up a teams totals, but is also representative of the tangible difference between players. So if Cabrera is a 7.4, and a minor leaguer is a 0.0, is it fair to say that Chipper Jones is a 4.3?
Anyway, long story short, LawDawg, you are wrong, WAR is a very useful stat for evaluating a players overall worth, and this thread is about whether or not McCann’s contract should be extended.
David Puddy
October 19th, 2012
4:30 pm
Folks,anyone actually read the lengthy postings? I don’t.
HB#1
October 19th, 2012
4:39 pm
I read the first few lines then decide if I want to read more. Better content in the long posts sometimes. Of course your login name is David Puddy. Guess we shouldn’t expect too much depth from you.