Al Groh goes, but the question about Tech’s talent remains
A sight seldom seen in recent months: Georgia Tech actually tackles somebody. (AJC photo by Johnny Crawford)
Paul Johnson had two options: Keep losing the same game the same way or try something different. Not much of a choice if your job depends on winning, is it?
Said Johnson, speaking Monday afternoon: “We’ve been ahead in some games and we haven’t seemed to win any of them.”
Also this: “The way we’ve played is not acceptable. That’s not why I came here.”
It is, however, why Al Groh is gone. To fault the defensive coordinator for everything that has gone wrong at Georgia Tech would be a gross overstatement. (Pretty sure Groh hadn’t been tutoring the Jackets in the art of turning a kickoff into a safety.) But he was given a task to perform, and he failed. A team that’s 90th in the land in total defense, 89th in scoring defense and 103rd in third-down defense — and, as Johnson noted of the latter category, “we tried to make that a point of emphasis” — cannot be said to have given ground grudgingly.
And the really bad thing about Groh’s really bad D was it got worse as it went. Of the 181 points Tech has yielded, 80 have come in the fourth quarter and beyond. If we throw out the Presbyterian game, Tech’s opponents have scored 77 points in 75 fourth-quarter minutes (plus two overtime possessions). That’s point-a-minute stuff. That’s bad beyond belief.
“The Virginia Tech game,” said Johnson, referring to the Jackets’ first loss of this 2-4 season, “was eerily similar to the [Sun Bowl, in which Tech also lost in overtime], and the Miami game [yet another OT loss] was eerily similar to Virginia Tech … There were a lot of recurrent things.”
Firing Groh in midseason can’t do any harm and might do some good. “To me, [the decision] was inevitable,” Johnson said. “I didn’t want to give up the rest of the season.”
But — and this is a humongous “but” — Al Groh wasn’t the guy missing tackles on third down. The scariest Tech loss wasn’t any of the three in which the Jackets wasted a late lead but the Middle Tennessee game, in which Tech last led 7-0. Middle Tennessee plays in the Sun Belt, which isn’t a BCS league. Georgia Tech plays in the ACC, which is, and back in 2009 it claimed the conference title (since vacated). On manpower alone, Tech should have been able to line up in the same defense on every snap and beat the Blue Raiders. Instead it lost 49-28. Instead it saw Middle Tennessee score seven touchdowns, the first five on drives of 68 or more yards.
That suggested — heck, it did more than suggest — that Tech’s failure had less to do with Groh’s X’s and O’s than the X’s themselves. Third downs are those moments when good players make plays; Tech’s players, alas, get blocked and blow coverages and miss tackles. “I don’t think you’ve got to trick people,” Johnson said, and then, sensing where this might be heading: “I’m not sold that we don’t have great players.”
On that, he’s surely in the minority. Johnson said he plans to be more involved with the defense, and toward that end he reassigned duties among the holdover coaches. (Charles Kelly, who last coordinated a defense in 2005 at Nicholls State, will be the interim coordinator.) Johnson knows what needs to be improved — “i.e., tackling and i.e., pursuit,” he said — but being able to run fast and hit hard are functions of ability. All the scheming known to man won’t turn a barely adequate collegiate linebacker into Lawrence Taylor.
See, Al Groh once coached Lawrence Taylor. Say what you will, but Groh does know football. Even Johnson conceded the point before saying: “The communication part wasn’t transcending to the field; we were having a hard time getting lined up.”
There can be no real defense, if you will, of Groh’s Tech tenure, no real argument with Johnson’s decision to dump him now. “To do what you’re doing,” Johnson said, “you have to know what you’re doing.”
Can’t dispute that. But to do what needs to done, you have to be physically able to do it. Al Groh tried for 2 1/2 years and couldn’t make these Jackets play good defense. Still unclear is whether anyone can.
By Mark Bradley
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197 comments Add your comment
collegeballfan
October 8th, 2012
8:51 pm
“The question now remains if CPJ will ever realize if he has to throw the ball more than 10 times in a game to win!?”
Not after South Carolina beat UGA with only 6 completions in 10 attempts.
lxUn1c0
October 8th, 2012
8:54 pm
Rochester Jacket, what’s to say he’s not interviewing our next DC? We might oder him a pay bump and give him more control than Saban does. It doesn’t make sense to pay CPJ $10 mullion not to coach GT football.
TDone
October 8th, 2012
8:56 pm
Mr. Bradley, what do you want to Johnson to do? Cheat? Tech can only recruit those kids it can get into the Institute. With its curriculum, it can only recuit certain athletes. I think Tech tries to recuit the best athletes it can. But at some point, it has to take players and coach them up. If you are so concerned, why don’t you go help us recuit? On second thought, no thanks.
supsalemgr
October 8th, 2012
9:00 pm
Why in the world would Kirby Smart even consider Tech? He knows GA and knows he can’t recruit there. He will hold out for a “big time” job.
1 4 GT
October 8th, 2012
9:10 pm
3 times I tried to make a post, worded differently each time. Why are the filters blocking me MB?
old time dog
October 8th, 2012
9:11 pm
Mark, your argument to be that talent is everything. Explain 35 to 7 to me on talent.
old time dog
October 8th, 2012
9:15 pm
Might just add an old football coaching phrase “He can take his and beat yours or he can take yours and beat his.” Talent is great but not everything. Again explain 35 to 7.
dagnabit
October 8th, 2012
9:21 pm
Time will tell, Mark, whether you know what you’re talking about this time.
1 4 GT
October 8th, 2012
9:23 pm
Some of y’all say a guy can’t get to the NFL thru GT & CPJ. If you can play, the NFL knows it. In the game last night, one of the teams had a player from Hofstra University. Some of you likely never even heard of Hofstra.
1 4 GT
October 8th, 2012
9:26 pm
Post with same premise as 1st 3 blocked again. Absolutely no vulgar, vile language is it. No insults to any one. No innuendos. Just blocked by your stupid filters. WHY?????
1 4 GT
October 8th, 2012
9:27 pm
Some of you claim a guy can’t get to the NFL thru GT & CPJ.
1 4 GT
October 8th, 2012
9:31 pm
A guy from Hofstra University played last night on Sunday Night Football.
1 4 GT
October 8th, 2012
9:37 pm
L a s t / n i g h t / a / g u y / f r o m / H o f s t r a / U n i v e r s i t y / p l a y e d / i n / t h e / S u n d a y / N i g h t / F o o t b a l l . I f / y o u / c a n / p l a y / t h e / N F L / k n o w s / y o u . / S o m e / o f / y o u / l i k e l y / n e v e r / e v e n / h e a r d / o f / H o f s t r a .
Hairy Dawg
October 8th, 2012
9:39 pm
The difference between a team like UGA and a team like Alabama is that the guy coaching Bama gets the most out of his ridiculous amount of talent. Richt has a ridiculous amount of talent on his team and he can never seem to get the guys to focus and do their jobs against the toughest opponents. He is terrible at it. The results prove it.
1 4 GT
October 8th, 2012
9:39 pm
What a stupid way to have work to get such an innocuous message thru your stupid filters.
walton
October 8th, 2012
9:43 pm
The problem against MTSU is that we lined up our back 7 spread out and in a shell giving up the inside run. MTSU said OK and ran the ball straight at us most of the game. We made zero adjustments. We didn’t adjust and make them throw over us which they probably couldn’t do. We do have some talent issue but if we don’t have 11-15 Defenders that can matchup with MTSU that says as much about NOT coaching them up as anything else.
lxUn1c0
October 8th, 2012
9:46 pm
Why would Kirby Smart come to GT? Stick with me here.
There’s precedent for a co-head coach at GT. When Gailey was here, Tenuta was co-head/DC. So, if we offer Kirby Smart more money, a co-head title, and the possibility of taking over if CPJ doesn’t turn things around, he may see it as a chance to improve his career. He would also have more control over the defense compared to his current situation under the infamous defensive guru that is Nick Saban. It may be a long shot, but it would be the kind of bold move that would restore the fanbase’s faith in DRad and CPJ.
As for recruiting, who says he can’t recruit in GA? We already have pipelines in the state (it’s our home state, duh), and a DC of his caliber could improve things. He would also bring new pipelines into Alabama, where there are some recruits he could steal. I don’t think recruiting is going to be the limiting factor here.
Hairy Dawg
October 8th, 2012
9:48 pm
Saban gets the most out of his ridiculous amount of talent at Bama. Richt gets an average amount out of his ridiculous amount of talent at UGA. Paul Johnson probably gets the most out of his offensive talent and scheme at Georgia Tech. He’s been getting nothing out of his defensive talent. He doesn’t even seem to care about that side of the ball as long as they’re about to outscore their opponents most of the time. That hasn’t happened this season.
Soper
October 8th, 2012
9:51 pm
If you run the triple option, your defense doesn’t face pro style offenses, or any style of offense except the triple option, so it’s almost impossible to be good defensively, which is why most iffnses in college, and all in Pro’s, are NOT the triple option.
The triple option kills the GTech defense.
Jacket1985
October 8th, 2012
9:52 pm
DRad talking to Kirby Smart has to be a hoax. There is no way Smart would ever come to an ACC school such as Tech due to recruiting difficulties. He’s on the top of everyone’s list and I see him getting a shot as a HC in the SEC soon.
Not that I wouldn’t love to have him mind you, I just don’t see him taking it seriously unless it was for a potential head coaching job.
GT Fan
October 8th, 2012
10:04 pm
SC vs UGA …. 6 pass completions for 162 yds … 27yds /
GT vs. Clem … 9 pass completions for 144 yds … 16 yds /
SC D gives up 7 pts
GT D gives up 47 pts
It’s ain’t the O, Al Groh had to go!
Kirby Smart
October 8th, 2012
10:07 pm
I’m not interested in a “coach in waiting” scenario. Thanks anyway.
taylor
October 8th, 2012
10:09 pm
Kirby isn’t coming to Tech. No one makes a lateral move like Bama DC to Tech DC. Kirby is holding out for a HC job, and he will most likely get one soon.
I wasn’t thrilled with the Groh hire. Sure he knew defense, but I’ve always been a fan of hiring the new up and comers. They’re cheaper and can freshen things up. Younger coach can probably recruit better and connect with players better.
Dacusville Bill
October 8th, 2012
10:11 pm
Pitiful Paul should have been fired along with Groh. Maybe find another Coach to oversee the transition from the ACC to the Southern Conference—Then we could play Furman, Wofford, Elon and the Citadel, and might be able to beat Elon—
Jacket 86
October 8th, 2012
10:12 pm
You’re right MB; Tech’s talent is the issue. Of course, this is the same article you’ve written a dozen times. I get the sense you’re the Al Groh of the AJC. Limited ideas and talent no matter how hard you try to repackage what you have to work with. Please, please come up with something new or do us all a favor and stop writing about the Jackets.
Mom always said...
October 8th, 2012
10:16 pm
If you don’t have something good to say, just don’t say anything.
RexDogma
October 8th, 2012
10:19 pm
Forget Paul Johnson. Somehow they need to convince Ken Whisenhut to come home!!!
Todd grantham
October 8th, 2012
10:20 pm
Mark, nobody cares about the Dahlberg reprecussions.
Buford Pusser, Sheriff
October 8th, 2012
10:31 pm
Mark…….why beat around the bush? Pick a side man. Don’t just throw things out there for us to ponder. Dig a little deeper on the talent issue and make a call on it. That’s what we want to hear more about. CPJ has always been adament that he doesn’t put much (aka, any) stock in recruiting sources and the whole 5 star rated thing. Doesn’t he claim to only worry about whether or not a specific kid can help his system? If so, it doesn’t look like it’s working. We have walk-ons getting significant playing time. How can that be???
Re: Kirby Smart………That would be a major play for DRad if it could happen and it might bring back some credibility to an AD that is floundering in my opinion. That said, why the heck would Kirby Smart come to GT??? Being the DC at Bama is better than being the head coach at GTech.
I will have to echo what RexDogmann said……..Ken Whisenhut was the obvious choice back when CPJ got the job in the first place. CPJ should have never been here. GTech should have pushed hard for Whisenhut.
GStateBen
October 8th, 2012
10:35 pm
Tech is NOT firing Johnson any time soon. His buyout is $10.2 million this off season and $7.7 million after 2013.
10per
October 8th, 2012
10:40 pm
With the hiring of Al Groh, I hoped our D would improve, and recruiting would pick up accordingly. But that is not what happened. I don’t know what the problem was, communication or complexity or something else but I saw a defensive unit lost and out of position with their hands out in a “what are we doing?” pose before most snaps this year. I kept my optimism until the 4th quarter of the MTSU game, when after standing around during a timeout half the team ran off the field when MTSU lined up on the ball. That was it. I knew then the coaches had lost the players, whatever reason that was.
I am surprised they let Al go at this point and I know the man knows football, but things can only get better from here on out. They were that bad.
Myanmar-Shave
October 8th, 2012
10:45 pm
Paul Johnson Was In A Tight Spot
So He Thought And He Thought And He Thought
Someone’s Got To Goh
Might As Well Be Al Groh
Then It Won’t Be My Problem Noh Moh
Myanmar-Shave
George P Burdell
October 8th, 2012
10:59 pm
I. Johnson is a total bust at safety! he is just pathetic!
Insanity Defined
October 8th, 2012
11:24 pm
Groh needed to go. Falcons have the same D players, but with a new coordinator, they look much better and are playing with a different attitude. I hope Jackets follow suit. Coaching matters.
wreckbone
October 8th, 2012
11:27 pm
I agree Chan’s recruits were not that much better. Except for the running backs and also Nesbitt to date. The difference was we had 2 guys who could get a couple tough yards. Nesbitt and Dwyer (also Allen) Tevin is solid but not as large or fast as nesbitt. NEsbitt didn’t get walked down by weak side defenders. But the QBs are waiting. We had a few RBs that were coming along. If perkins could have been an impact player we would not be having this conversation. I think the 2 QBs in waiting will be able to take us where we need to be. I agree the offense is workign excpet for larger talent defenses. And if we get some RBs that are high recruits to give it a shot, we can get back those high percentage 3rd and 4th downs Johnson used to get.
Mr. One Liner
October 8th, 2012
11:34 pm
The defense was suffering through some….Grohing pains.
Thanks everybody, make sure to tip your waiter.
lxUn1c0
October 8th, 2012
11:41 pm
Soper doesn’t understand how a football team works. He actually thinks our first-string defense practices against our own offense everyday. That’s adorable.
dc74
October 8th, 2012
11:46 pm
Paul Johnson…genius
Hayseed Dixie
October 8th, 2012
11:58 pm
@Mark Bradley
“Al Groh once coached Lawrence Taylor.”
Yeah, and George Martin once produced the Beatles. Name a record he’s done outside of that that anyone gives two squats about.
But on to your point Mark- Attachou isn’t talented. Louis Young isn’t talented. Sure. Whatever.
Have you been watching the same games I have?
Here’s a far more simple analysis: those kids are good kids that want to please their coach. Sometimes old fellas know too much for their own good, and they make things way too complicated.
You want to belabor your point, I get it. Perhaps you have more in common with Coach Groh than you realize?
1 4 GT
October 9th, 2012
12:18 am
Hayseed….RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Santa Monica Jacket
October 9th, 2012
12:19 am
Mark please act like you have been around football before… Coaching is a huge part of it. How did APP St beat Michigan?? How did Utah beat Bama in a bowl?? How did NCST beat FSU?? This list could extend on forever… If you want to point to talent… Point your finger at your beloved DAWGs…
How can so many 5-star athletes assemble at one University and win nothing???? Remember that famous Spurrier quote.. something like this- “Georgia lands some of the best recruits in the nation year after year. Makes you wonder where they go when they get there.”
1 4 GT
October 9th, 2012
12:26 am
I just hope that CPJ (most likely) puts together a list of choices for DC & doesn’t make a hasty decision. I am sure he will have $$ constraints to work with. Start at the top & see who has interest & work hard to get a great recruiter & DC that would make smart moves & be in charge of recruiting. GOOOOO JACKETS THWGeorgie
Santa Monica Jacket
October 9th, 2012
12:38 am
Found the quote….
How is it when they (Georgia) sign people they get the best players (Bulldogs had string of 3 nationally ranked recruiting classes), but when we play, we have the best players??
-Stever Spurrier
Funny how somethings never change!!! The point Mark is that UGA has all the talent you could ask for and what are they winning?? They beat an engineering school consistently that can’t recruit at the same level for very obvious reasons?? Yet your write articles pointing to CPJ’s approach as the problem. Let me remind you again of the talent at UGA… all that NFL talent. Please view the record below…
RICHT is 2-14 vs ranked teams since 2008
Richt is 0-10 vs the top 10 since 2008
I’m tired of people pointing to GaTech’s record agaisnt Miami, UGA, VaTech, and Clemson. For sure GaTech wouldn’t have that record under CPJ with UGA’s talent. Your articles are really lame.
sal G
October 9th, 2012
1:17 am
wishbone offense—attracts 1-2 star players
Black Bee
October 9th, 2012
1:31 am
CPJ has to admit it was he who proudly brags that Stars don’t mean anything. That he gets the kids who wants to be here. And the gold colored glasses crew believed that boloney. Every recruiting service had CPJ, GT recruiting no higher then 45. You can do that one year but the next year you can balance that with a top 20 recruiting or your talent level will fall off. It is no wonder see this is not Montana or Idaho or something. This Stae is full of players. Touching States like Florida, So. Carolina and Ala. also have talent. Their is a reason a lot of NFL players and Entertainers choose Atlanta to live. The women here are 20-1, you are 10 minutes away from the Falcons, Braves and Hawks. This is the new Motown and the movie scene is triving. It just takes the right person to sell that who can also Coach. The Staff needs some closer’s. Giff, Lance Thompson, Joe Hamilton and R. Shannon. GT have enough alumni to get them all. The administration has to lighten up a little, maybe get a dual degree pprogram with Morehouse and Emory to open up some mor doors. It can be done but CPJ has to be a little more open to change.
lxUn1c0
October 9th, 2012
1:35 am
Sal G – I wasn’t aware anybody ran the wishbone anymore. Maybe I’m mistaken, but I don’t think I’ve seen it in division 1 in about 15 years.
If your comment was about GT, then you should probably look at the recruiting class stats before you open your mouth and remove all doubt, if you know what I mean.
Dodd
October 9th, 2012
1:44 am
Good column, Mark. All true. Didn’t realize LakeDawg was Jacket, either.
WnE
October 9th, 2012
2:33 am
DRad & CPJ must think we’re stupid, CAG being alone at fault is the same as the US Gov. wanting us to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman!
Our Safeties & DBs have been atrocious, WHY not fire Kelly instead of making him the interim DC?
How in the H3LL can CPJ “promote” Charles Kelly to interim DC when I-Johnson has been a poor tackler and has been taking the SAME BAD ANGLES for 3 years, why not fire Kelly for not teaching him better?
Is it CAG’s fault that his safeties ALWAYS take bad angles in games?
Or is it Kelly’s fault, the 2ndary Coach?
The DL has been HORRIBLE for while so why isn’t McCcollum scape-goated and fired along with CAG?
This kind of BS scape-goatery won’t work with folks like me that follow CFB & recruiting and can see through the BS!
The GT Fanbase is not very sophisticated when it comes to CFB, so CPJ & DRad think they can pull a fast-one over on the gullible GT fanbase.
I can see through it!
Trying to get this kind of BS past me is like trying to sneak daybreak past a Rooster!
I didn’t like the CPJ hire way back in Dec. 2007 and I like it even LESS now because CPJ has no honor & no integrity to scape-goat CAG.
CPJ’s behavior in this time of crisis is exactly what I would expect from a PE Major from W. Carolina!
WnE
October 9th, 2012
2:37 am
All of CPJ’s Offensive recruits are Recruited for the Triple-SLOPtion Offense, those that are not good enough to get on CPJ’s depth chart that end up on the Scout Team do NOT have the TALENT to adequately simulate the Offenses that GT faces on Game days.
In the Miami Game when GT was burned early in the game, that throw by Stephen Morris is something that our CBs NEVER see during the week when they prep for games, none of our Scout Team QBs have that kind of arm strength.
Smallish RBs, NO TEs, and weak armed run-first QBs, and under-sized OLs that aren’t good pass-blockers cannot get our defense ready for what they will see on game days.
How can our DLs practice pass rushing vs. 6-7 310+ lbs. OTs when CPJ doesn’t recruit those types of players for HIS offense?
This is why is seems that our DLs just “Stick” to the OLs when they try to pass rush, the moves that they learn & practice every day they aren’t used to doing them vs. the QUALITY of OLs that they see on Game days.
Just because CPJ puts together a Scout Team that doesn’t mean that Scout Team has the TALENT to get our guys ready for Game Days.
If our starting Defense had to practice vs. Bama’s Scout team for a month do you think they would be better prepared for what they see on Game Days?
If you agree, then that means that CPJ’s “system” does indeed have a negative impact on our Defense, and when you bring in borderline BCS-level Recruits, then that makes it even harder for them to react properly under game pressure.
WnE
October 9th, 2012
2:43 am
re:
TDone
October 8th, 2012
8:56 pm
Mr. Bradley, what do you want to Johnson to do? Cheat? Tech can only recruit those kids it can get into the Institute. With its curriculum, it can only recuit certain athletes. I think Tech tries to recuit the best athletes it can. But at some point, it has to take players and coach them up. If you are so concerned, why don’t you go help us recuit? On second thought, no thanks.
___________________
PLEASE STOP PLAYING THE “ACADEMICS CARD”!
GT has no excuses for CPJ’;s poor Recruiting!
Academics ain’t the issue.
CLOSING on Academically Qualified ELITE Recruits is the issue!
This weekend Tuitt at ND played light out, Flower from Arky that turned down GT played well vs. Aubie and had a Key sack, Flower planned on majoring in Mechanical Engr. had he chose GT ,but he wanted to play in the SEC. Chase Thomas from Stanford by way of East Cobb (not sure which HS) is playing All-America caliber FB and is likely to be a 1st or 2nd team All-America this yr, barring injury. Garrison Smith & Ray Drew up at UGA are getting PT and are doing well. James Vaughters the 3.9 student from Tucker that had GT as one of his finalists is the other Starting OLB for Stanford and their 3-4 is a lot better than GT’s.
Imagine that on one of the better 3-4s in the country (Stanford), BOTH their OLBs are from the Metro Atlanta Area and were Academic Qualifiers for GT, and yet they are playing 3,000 miles away, maybe if CPJ had closed the deal on these 2 guys and gave CAG the “groceries” he needed then maybe the “meal” would have turned out better for CAG & GT.
GT’s problem is not Academics, the problem is that GT has a HORRIBLE close rate on the Academic Qualifiers from the Metro Atlanta Area, it is something like 10%, get that number up to 40% maybe even 50% and GT will put more future NFL guys on their roster and more impact college-level guys on their team and more game changing plays will be made.
Give CAG half of those guys I listed above and GT is undefeated, and in no way is that list complete, Shadrick (?) Thornton from NC State made big play vs. FSU when NC State upset them and was Recruited by GT as an A-Back and now he’s at NC State and it is NOT taking him 3 years to learn to make plays in in GAMES that helps their teams beat Top-5 teams.
GT fans need to stop with the Academics excuses and put the blame squarely where is belongs……. on CPJ for being a terrible Recruiter.