Six men in the rotation? The Braves say yes; I say, ‘I wouldn’t’
Is keeping Medlen in the rotation worth the risk of meddling? (AJC photo by Brant Sanderlin)
For half a season the Braves couldn’t find enough good starting pitchers. Now they have so many they’re planning to deploy a six-man rotation. They’re not doing this because they’re desperate. They’re doing it because they think it’ll make a rotation that has finally begun to function work even better.
Here we return to a fairly key phrase: “A rotation that has finally begun to function.”
And here we note: The Braves are tinkering with what, to get ungrammatical, not only ain’t broke but what, not so long ago, was a mess.
The Braves see it this way: Tommy Hanson is due back from the disabled list, and it would make no sense to ship him to the bullpen or Gwinnett. Hanson has proved he’s a big-league starter. (Even in this lesser season, he has won 12 games.) Kris Medlen, deputized as Hanson’s replacement, has won two of his three starts with an ERA of 2.16, and the Braves like that, too.
Tim Hudson is a rotation fixture. The retread Ben Sheets has made himself one (five quality starts in six tries). Paul Malholm was imported to be a starter, and he’s 2-for-2 in quality starts since his arrival and 8-for-8 over his past six weeks. And Mike Minor left after six innings Monday night against San Diego with the Braves trailing 3-0 but having posted his sixth quality start in his past seven appearances — this after managing four in his first 15.
Say it again: The five-man rotation is working. The Braves have the National League’s best ERA since the All-Star break. Not coincidentally, they also have baseball’s best record since July 5. But rotations can be capricious things: Starting pitchers are conditioned to take a turn every five days, not six. One more day mightn’t seem a big deal to us laypeople, but you shudder at the thought of a starting five that struggled to gain traction losing its grip because somebody got too cute.
Even as he was announcing the move Monday, manager Fredi Gonzalez acted as if he was knocking on wood. In baseball, gluts tend to work themselves out, he kept saying. The Braves are going to the six-pack, he said, “as of 5 o’clock on Monday, but it could change at any time. When I walk back and talk to Bubba [head trainer Jeff Porter], it could change.”
About here, you’re saying: “They’re only planning to do it through Aug. 29. What can go wrong in 2 1/2 weeks?” Well, we return to August 2011. The Braves had won six of seven and were headed to New York for a weekend series against the Mets, whereupon Hurricane Irene forced the Saturday and Sunday games to be postponed. The Braves were already scheduled to be off on Monday. General manager Frank Wren believes that unplanned long weekend threw his team off its stride and led into the Epic Collapse of September.
Yes, there’s a chance this six-man rotation will do no harm and actually keep the Braves’ arms fresher for September (and presumably October), but why take the chance at all? Medlen has made three strong starts, yes, but he’s not by trade a full-blooded starter. He’s a spot guy, and he has value as a reliever. It might not be fair — and I’m aware that Medlen is a fan favorite — but fairness shouldn’t be the first consideration with a playoff berth in play. Unless/until Hanson proves he can’t win games, Medlen should return to the bullpen.
These next 2 1/2 weeks are apt to tell the tale of this regular season. After lately beating up on lesser lights, the Braves now must face the second-in-the-West Dodgers here, the division-leading Nationals and Giants at their places and the Padres, who have been rather good since the All-Star break, both here and there. The Braves are in great shape today. But they were in great shape last August.
I’m not predicting the six-man rotation will blow this. (Then again, I didn’t think anything could blow it a year ago.) I’m just saying: The Braves worked all season to get this rotation into shape. It’d be a shame to have anything mess it up.
By Mark Bradley
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128 comments Add your comment
Sorry Tommy
August 13th, 2012
6:44 pm
Mark, I have to agree. Tommy Hanson just doesn’t have it this year. Let him work it out in the bullpen. Medlen has worked himself into the rotation and hasn’t shown any reason why he can’t handle it. He’ll be back in the pen by playoff time in a short series.
Stat Bully
August 13th, 2012
6:45 pm
Will you and Schultz come to blows over this issue?
Matt
August 13th, 2012
6:46 pm
It’s not for the whole season, it’s for a couple weeks. Settle down, it’ll be fine. Sheets, Hudson, Hanson could all use the rest.
Sir Stealth
August 13th, 2012
6:46 pm
Pitchers routinely have an extra day between starts due to the usual off days in the season. There will be no off days during the brief time that the 6-man rotation is employed, so that can’t really be called a factor. I wouldn’t normally be in favor of this, but there are just so many factors coming together in its favor that it makes sense for 2.5 weeks. Good outside the box move by the Braves.
gtguy
August 13th, 2012
6:48 pm
first
misterwax
August 13th, 2012
6:49 pm
first, and let it ride…. a six shooter will win.
Paddy
August 13th, 2012
6:51 pm
Leave it at 5, please!
Dave
August 13th, 2012
6:54 pm
Enter your comments here
M
August 13th, 2012
6:56 pm
I predict that no matter what happens, there will be plenty of people in here saying it was obvious that the Braves should have done the opposite of whatever it is they decide to do.
Dave
August 13th, 2012
6:57 pm
Sorry about that. So from your piece, Medlen sits just beyond the outfield fence, when over the same period of time he’s better than Hanson? Or, offend Hanson and demote him to the pen? Either even put off by going with six guys until proven wrong. Seems to me there isn’t a downside to a six man rotation other than fear of last year.
Hillbilly D
August 13th, 2012
6:58 pm
Hard for pitchers to stay sharp in a 6 man rotation. But I still believe pitchers ought to try to pitch complete games, so what do I know?
Leroy
August 13th, 2012
6:59 pm
I agree that the Braves should not go to a six-man rotation, but Hanson is the odd man out. Of the six he gives you the least chance to win.
Medlen has proven he’ll do what the TEAM needs him to do, Hanson needs to prove he’s about more than just his go/next contract. If he’s not willing to move to the bullpen Gwinnett would love to have him.
Larry
August 13th, 2012
7:12 pm
In just a matter of weeks now, both Hanson and Jurrjens will no longer be Atlanta Braves. So why bother with what’s working with what isn’t part of our future…and for good reason?
UPGRAYEDD
August 13th, 2012
7:17 pm
The very pitchers you fear will become ineffective because of the extra day off are the ones that most need the rest. Sheets hasn’t pitched in years and no one knows when he’ll hit a wall….last night he showed us a glimpse of that. And if Hanson fails to perform in his starts….drop him to the bullpen. We need Minor’s left arm in the rotation, and the rest are fixtures.
SlowBall
August 13th, 2012
7:19 pm
ESPN crew last night, especially Hershiser, made a big deal out of scouting reports that Sheets may be on the verge of “dead arm.” Velocity dropping, fastball command fading. Hudson is no longer automatic as his last start might suggest. Who knows what Hanson will look like when he gets back? The Braves have no off days for a few weeks; can’t see where the extra rest will harm the rotation at all. Go with six.
G
August 13th, 2012
7:20 pm
You condridict yourself Bradley. You say don’t tinker with what’s working but then say send Medlin to the bullpen. How has Hanson showed he can be relied on after the end of last year and after the all star break this year?
George Stein
August 13th, 2012
7:22 pm
Was this Fredi or Frank’s call?
Bravesfan
August 13th, 2012
7:24 pm
20 games in 20 days with no off day
Let it ride bro because it’s ok to take a chance
It will work it’s way out with any injury or poor performer in the 6
You people worry too much
Mark Bradley
August 13th, 2012
7:29 pm
Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes.
Walt Whitman, “Song of Myself”
G
August 13th, 2012
7:33 pm
Isn’t that what you are saying? And why is Hanson immediately back in based on his last few starts?
Medlen
August 13th, 2012
7:40 pm
Medlen by trade is not a starter, so that is reason enough to write off his success starting games? He’s been one of our best and most consistent pitchers, and personally I don’t care about what his “trade” is. We need arms getting it done, and statistically, Minor has been our worst pitcher (by FAR). You want to keep a 5 man? Send Minor to the pen.
And if you believe Wren that one scheduling snafu during a hurricane can lead a team to lose a 9 game lead with only a month to play, then I have a bridge to sell you. Of course Wren is going to blame the collapse on nature. If it’s nature’s fault, then it can’t be the team he put together or the manager he hired to blame for a monumental collapse. Leave Medlen in the rotation, be it 5 or six man. If someone has to go, send Minor. He is not that good, and certainly hasn’t shown the consistency that Medlen has. I don’t care if he is a lefty.
Send WHO to the 'pen?
August 13th, 2012
7:43 pm
Nice of Prado to bail out Minor. Minor is terrible. Plain and simple. You want to hear a joke? Have someone read aloud Mike Minor’s FIP. You’ll laugh so hard that a little pee might even come out.
Mark Bradley
August 13th, 2012
7:43 pm
It’s my belief that you’d get more from Medlen in the bullpen than Minor or Hanson.
MarvelGoose
August 13th, 2012
7:45 pm
I think Mark’s just jealous that Shultz thought of it first and then talked Freddie into it.
Ken Stallings
August 13th, 2012
7:46 pm
You and Schultz should now have a point-counterpoint type thing — like the old deal on 60 Minutes!
Send WHO to the 'pen?
August 13th, 2012
7:49 pm
Ok then send Minor to Gwinette, because Medlen will give you more as a starter AND reliever than Minor. So you’d rather have Minor getting knocked around every fifth day (expecting a loss and wasting arms in the pen) than Medlen taking his spot and WINNING games? I understand Medlen can bridge the gap, but Christian martinez has been good this year and if oft overlooked.
My point is keep the best pitchers on the staff. Minor is not in our top 5.
Brent
August 13th, 2012
7:50 pm
The glut of starting pitching won’t last. We’ll be lucky to have 4 legitimate starters by the time October rolls around
Hillbilly D
August 13th, 2012
7:51 pm
What was Walt Whitman’s view on a 6 man rotation?
Brent
August 13th, 2012
7:53 pm
Or count-pointercount as in Saturday Night Live. Mark you ignorant slut.
Moy
August 13th, 2012
7:53 pm
Wouldn’t the Nats like to have this problem as they look to shut Strasburg down. Fresh arms to the extent they exist at this pout in the season may allow team to catch Nats. Some hot hitting by the ugglas of the world wouldn’t hurt either.
Showed heart last night in 9th as mets horrid pen almost coughed up lead.
If Mark managed the braves
August 13th, 2012
7:58 pm
his best pitchers would be in the pen, so they can bridge the gap from the 4th inning to the 7th. Nevermind the starters that come in first and put the team down a bunch of runs, as long as you have a guy that can come in if a below average starter gets a bit tired in the 3rd inning; and by some miracle the braves aren’t down by 5 just yet.
More important for medlen to hold a hypothetical lead mid game than to be one of our top 3 starting pitchers. Especially if we are talking 5 game series.
Time
August 13th, 2012
8:01 pm
At least one AJC columist has got half right. Medlen should be in the rotation, Maholm should go to Gwinnett to be emergency starter. Was a bad trade two weeks ago, gets worse by the day.
Pitchers
August 13th, 2012
8:02 pm
Why not. We will have better rested arms than Nats as they are gettiting ready to shut Strasburg down. Don’t they wish they had this problem.Plus there are no off days over next few weeks. Now if only some bats got hot. uggla etc…..
Gutty performance last night as Mets almost choked 5 run lead with 2 outs in ninth. Man their pen has problems
Sonny Clusters
August 13th, 2012
8:03 pm
It is mostly Jeff’s fault for bringing this up because Fredi said he “Never thought about it” and we believe him. This is fun with Ol’Jeff touting the six-man and Mark saying “no way” . . . it reminds us of the days of Bisher and Outlar and the AFL or NFL dialogue. Yes or no. Right or left. Up or down. Covers Dixie Like the Dew The South’s Standard Newspaper. Clear and concise and whatever. One man’s opinion. Goose and the Gander. T!t for tat. Can’t say that.
docsbro
August 13th, 2012
8:08 pm
I wonder if this was the same discussion they had when they went from three man rotations to four, or four to five? It can’t hurt I don’t think. All our pitchers are pitching well but we also know that they are VERY fragile. Extra day I say could be good for these guys, but we will never know unless we try. I say DO IT!! Six man rotation…
Brian
August 13th, 2012
8:08 pm
Medlen deserves to start and you know he wants to start. Hanson may be able to work through this and get better soon. Hudson and Sheets, as many have pointed out, could use the extra rest. I like the idea by Fredi.
Brian
August 13th, 2012
8:13 pm
I could see the argument for Hanson in that he was a pretty solid pitcher the last couple of seasons and just because he struggles some we let a guy pitch who has never started a full season in the majors. Medlen also would be great in the bullpen as well. However, we have seen how well Kris has pitched in his starts, so why not go to six and keep them both as starters?
Radio GaGa
August 13th, 2012
8:25 pm
I like this move. The Braves are showing some imagination for a change. It’s quite a contrast from Bobby’s annual bullpen blowout.
Josh
August 13th, 2012
8:31 pm
This move makes sense from a health perspective, but the guys who give us the best chance to win (Hudson and Sheets) are now pitching less often.
Mark Bradley
August 13th, 2012
8:51 pm
Meanwhile, here at the game: The Braves are down 2-0 through five cantos.
sleeze
August 13th, 2012
9:17 pm
Well, Mark, as you know, you ARE the baseball expert. Must be nice to have an opinion on everything..
Sid Slid
August 13th, 2012
9:25 pm
Mark, I love the Whitman quote. I use it often.
Matts Pythons
August 13th, 2012
9:27 pm
Who do you take out of the rotation, Medlen? Are you crazy? He might be our best starter. Basically we have 6 guys who can start, we have 20 straight games, once this run is over, the person who needs to be dropped will be apparent, if they are all even healthy….unless they all pitch lights out, and that would not be a real bad thing.
Mark Bradley's Fan Club
August 13th, 2012
9:34 pm
Mark… please re-think your opinion. The Fan Club is currently at loggerheads with the focus of its adoration.
Zing
August 13th, 2012
9:38 pm
Respectfully, Mr. Bradley… it’s not about what’s “fair.” Baseball can be a cruel game– why? Precisely because it’s NOT fair.
Medlen deserves to start because… he’s good. He deserves it, not in a “aw, shucks, let the boy play! Rudy– I mean, Medlen–never misses a practice! The boy’s got heart!”
No, that’s not it. He’s good–really good. He’s easily our no. 2 or no. 3 starter. Why in the good green earth would you banish him to the bullpen for a less effective player? You don’t.
OTP
August 13th, 2012
9:52 pm
It might be time to worry more about the offense, (or, lack thereof), again.
One Long Eyebrow
August 13th, 2012
9:55 pm
Will Uggla end the night hitting .214?
Mark Bradley
August 13th, 2012
9:59 pm
Braves lose 4-1. It felt worse than that.
Padres pitched great, though.
One Long Eyebrow
August 13th, 2012
10:01 pm
Nope. Uggla is now hitting .213.
SG10
August 13th, 2012
10:04 pm
Here is one thought..if the Braves starter go every 6 days for the next three weeks, returning to every 5th day would make it a ’short rest’ for them?
it seems you can always see the cup half full or half empty. Right? 
Skeezix
August 13th, 2012
10:27 pm
Minor was okay tonight, but Braves offense has gone limp again and Uggla continues to disappoint. The offense has had zero spark in the last two games. Are they starting to run down? If I was an opposing manager I would pitch nothing but lefties against the Braves. If I didn’t have enough lefties, I go get them from the farm. I swear I think any High School leftie could give this offense a hard time. It’s like a left hander makes them all cross eyed.
I don’t like the six man rotation idea and I could tell from Glavine comments tonight that he wasn’t all that keen on it either.
Ed
August 13th, 2012
10:32 pm
Enter your comments here
Ed
August 13th, 2012
10:34 pm
Forget about the pitching. Cy Young himself could not win with the sorry Brave hitters.
Yunel Asscobar
August 13th, 2012
11:27 pm
If this works, and I think it’s a great idea, the next logical step is to jettison Fredi and hire Jeff to manage in 2013. The managerial IQ is immediately quadrupled and maybe now we can hit and run, steal, and actually manufacture runs. I’m liking this a lot! Go Shultz!
nick78vsu
August 13th, 2012
11:35 pm
Dear God! Making a big deal out of nothing; they are only doing this for two weeks and then they have said their going back to a five man. With the teams that they are playing over the next two weeks, its prob the best time to do it, and see who will remain in the rotation and who will head to the bullpen!
Oy vey.
August 14th, 2012
3:11 am
Don’t talk about last year. Don’t talk about last year. Don’t talk about last year.
COOPER
August 14th, 2012
3:24 am
The reason Atlanta didn’t make it to the playoff last year was because the starters and relief pitcher gave out before the end of the year. Atlanta going to a six man rotation is a God send.
At some point you will have to drop at least one from the rotation. My choice would be Hanson or Minor. Right now Medlen is probably Atlanta’s best and most consistent starter. Nobody has better control.
I noticed that Minor did not have a walk tonight but he gave up 9 hits in six innings. Not very good. Minor isn’t walking a lot anymore but he isn’t hitting the corner like Medlen does. When Minor gets to much of the plate he give up hits and runs.
If Hanson can’t get his big breaking ball over for strikes his average outing will be 5 innings and he will give up 5 runs on 6 to 10 hits.
I think Hudson will be okay but Atlanta needs to skip his turn every once in a while . He is getting tired and is unable to maintain his control for 6 or 7 innings.
Wrecker
August 14th, 2012
5:38 am
I see this short-term solution similarly to bringing up a starter from AAA to pitch when you have 4 games in 3 days because of a rainout and doubleheader. The League even changed the rule to permit a no-penalty call-up in such situations. We only need to get to September and through this stretch of no off-days before going back to normal. This is not the new normal.
TommyP
August 14th, 2012
6:22 am
I’m for the 6-man. But if you don’t go with it, you certainly leave Medlen alone in the rotation. He’s been phenomenal.
Atticus
August 14th, 2012
7:39 am
None of this matters because they won’t catch the Nats.
Med Head
August 14th, 2012
8:01 am
Medlen, not a starter by trade? He was drafted a starter, pitched in the minors as a starter, had a better record and ERA over the much-hyped Hanson when he was called up to the show and he has been a better starter than Hanson for the Braves, when he’s been given an oppty. Ironically, Medlen got hurt and when he came back there was no room in the starting 5. Now, there is no room for Hanson. Go with the 6-pack, and then Hanson in long-relief in the sprint. Hanson, unfortunately, has not lived up to the hype – he’s a keeper, but a #4 starter at best – when there’s room.
Med Head
August 14th, 2012
8:02 am
And yes, Atticus – it matters.
longtimefan
August 14th, 2012
8:06 am
The most impressive thing about the entire thread is not once is Medlen’s name misspelled.
longtimefan
August 14th, 2012
8:11 am
To Ed: The Braves are second in the NL in hitting(runs scored). You must be an Astros fan- this is a Braves blog.
Ted M
August 14th, 2012
8:22 am
Pretty well thought out argument Mark. But as you say you can never tell.
I’m gonna have to side with Fredi on this one…shivers just ran up and down my spine.
GRD
August 14th, 2012
8:27 am
Hanson hasn’t proven anything. he’s been a dud this year. I’d ship him to gwinnett
Fladawg
August 14th, 2012
8:31 am
Six starters is not going to help or hurt when the Braves get to the one game play in for the two wildcard teams. The Braves do not have a top of the line #1 starter that they can count on in that game.
alex
August 14th, 2012
9:48 am
bigger problem with 6 rotation one short on bullpen, but it make sense in Atlanta because off small fan support causing tied budget so need to find 5 cheapest pitchers. in new world this organization have zero chance to compete with teams who get almost capacity crowd on any given game and such teams are plenty. so relax folks and enjoy college football season. in any organization the mistake with signing players like uggla could be corrected, not in atlanta 13 mil for .213. we have no money. and don’t blame wren, he is a human, blame city for hating pro sport.
FANtastic
August 14th, 2012
9:54 am
Totally disagree with this column. I believe you underestimate Medlen’s ability to start. Since he was first called up, when has he done anything to show that he’s “not a true starter?” The guy pitches great everytime he takes the mound. I also think you’re overstating the impact of having guys pitch every 6 days instead of 5. They do it all the time (i.e. everytime there is a off-day). Since there are no off days during the time they plan to do this, it’s not like anyone will be pitching on six days rest.
Nevada Roy
August 14th, 2012
9:56 am
Maybe the logic is if one-out-of-six starting pitchers has an off-day it is only 1/6th of the games versus 1/5th of the games?
Ted Striker
August 14th, 2012
10:09 am
I say go with the six.
Take a risk.
Defy convention.
“In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance.
In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace – and what did that produce? The five man rotation.“
(apologies to Orson Welles)
Brandon Lee
August 14th, 2012
10:11 am
Agreed, although Mark never addresses the HAnson issue, persay… Hudson, Maholm, Medlin, Sheets, and Minor. Why would the Braves even Consider giving up their Best Lefty Equalizer in the middle of the Rotation, keeping Opposing Teams Lefty Heavy Hitters on the Bench, for the sake of Hanson. Tommy has shown True Grit most of his career, including this year. He Battles every bit as much as Hudson, but Hanson’s talents are waning, for whatever reason, health, age, Karma.. Noone ever knows Exactly Why it happens, but the signs cannot be ignored. Placing HAnson in a Six-man Rotation for the sake of Saving-Face, is Never Sound Reasoning.
Brandon Lee
August 14th, 2012
10:19 am
With Martin Prado Getting a Triple in the Eight inning, with Two Outs…
and Then Heyward comes up trying to knock the ball out of the Park, when a single would’ve sufficed… Sure it would’ve only been a 4 -2 Ballgame, but again, two-runs to make up are much easier to come by than 3 or 4… Heywards Whiff with Prado standing on Third Base STINKS… That is SORRY Managing of a Baseball Team !!!
longtimefan
August 14th, 2012
10:27 am
Dude, That has to do with hitting, not managing. Don’t expect any hitter to come thru in every situation. That’s clown thinking, bro.
Joey
August 14th, 2012
10:35 am
“I predict that no matter what happens, there will be plenty of people in here saying it was obvious that the Braves should have done the opposite of whatever it is they decide to do.”
************************************************
Right. Just like the predictble, “Stupid Fredi left (fill in the blank) one inning too long!” Or the equally predictable, “Stupid Fredi took (fill in the bank) out when he was pitching good!)
ragnar danneskjold
August 14th, 2012
11:08 am
Respectfully disagree with the analysis. Doubt that the pitchers will “lose it” with an extra day’s rest. Last year’s post-Mets difficulties were less attributable to “excessive rest for starters” than with “insufficient rest for relievers.” Having so argued, I would go with Hanson as long-relief for the next two weeks and keep a five-man rotation. Medlen is the ace of the staff now, but Maholm could steal that title.
ragnar danneskjold
August 14th, 2012
11:12 am
In many ways, there is a logic to the six-man rotation. Pitchers can actually pitch effectively every three days, so pairing up the guys, one as alternative contingent long-relief for the other, would be a totally reasonable plan.
ragnar danneskjold
August 14th, 2012
11:14 am
Another potential use of starters as long-relief would have “the next day’s starter” on notice as potential long relief for each game. That would free up the “long relief” spot in the bull-pen, and give Fredi the most potential innings from his starters.
ragnar danneskjold
August 14th, 2012
11:18 am
The potential down-side of using starters as long-relief is that many starters have peculiar warm-up routines, born of superstition or of training, and would be possibly disrupted by sudden activation in a game.
coach13
August 14th, 2012
11:22 am
The only way the BRaves catch the Nats is if they collapse. The Braves can’t play much better than they have been. Hanson is a #3 starter at best, he’s hardly replaceable. Send his butt to the pen and if he doesn’t like it trade him. Again, he’s hardly replaceable and since you aren’t going to get anything for JJ you might actually be able to get something for him. With his mechanics he will be oft injured and not worth what we are paying him.
Pippa's hiney
August 14th, 2012
11:27 am
None of them “deserve” the bullpen. Medlin the most obvious, simply because he would be the most effective of the group.
Sonny Clusters
August 14th, 2012
11:28 am
Same old same old. Uggla is a hole in the lineup. A hole. “He’s getting big walks” – hahahaha! We think that Janish is a good guy and a better ss than Pastor but there are a lot of balls getting just past his glove. Those were being stopped with Simmons out there – and with Gonzales the year before. The infield is suspect with only one player considered above average at his position. Some are clearly below average. If the team goes into a slide will Fredi know what to do? He didn’t last year.
Sonny Clusters
August 14th, 2012
11:31 am
Bringing a starter in to relieve is not a new concept for the Braves and fans should not suggest otherwise. We remember when Bobby brought Charlie Liebrandt in to pitch to Kirby Puckett. How did that work out?
man and dog
August 14th, 2012
11:40 am
Durk Lowe and FG’s decision to keep “throwing him out there” for 5 starts in September was the biggest reason the Braves blew it last year. Let’s see what Fredie does this year.
Mr. Dawg
August 14th, 2012
11:43 am
I’ve always been happy to have a healthy solid 5 man rotation. That’s often times a luxury. Not too long a ago a 4 man was the standard. You simply can’t have too much help out of the bullpen and while Medlin has proven to be a capable starter, I think that’s his place for now. Middle relief is very underrated. Solid middle relief iss a must have for a team to be successful. I think it’s unfair that an All-star spot is typically given to top closers and not to a top midlle reliever. I’d like to see a stat that shows how many save opportunites or salvaged or lost by middle relievers.
Jay
August 14th, 2012
11:56 am
Medlen back to the bullpen? NO!!!! Even Joe Simpson things Medlen should be starting, and he knows more about the team than just about any of us.
If anyone should go to the bullpen, it should be Sheets or Hanson. Sheets hasnt been doing good in the last couple of starts…the clock has struck midnight. And Hanson, well…he’s going to get injured again, so why mess up a good thing?
Stinger 2
August 14th, 2012
12:02 pm
Well, Clusters is back in his predictable form casting negative and disparing comments about Fredi and the Braves players. Not surprising that he would go back to a WS game in the early 1990`s to find something bad to say.
Keep up the pitiful comments Clusters. You are the Master.
Dr. Food
August 14th, 2012
12:05 pm
When you become the manager and your hindmost is on the line for your decisions then, and only then, are your opinions worth anything. It is easy to critique what might happen. You are much better at offering your explination for what has happened. Let the fans do the prognostication; you do the reporting, please.
Why?
August 14th, 2012
12:13 pm
Bradley please take a look at Hanson’s career stats. He has gotten worse each year. Please don’t say he’s a proven big-league starter!
PS….What is Hanson’s run support in those 12 wins this year?
Ryan
August 14th, 2012
12:13 pm
Mark – you forgot that Medlen is part of the reason the Braves have the best ERA since the break – Hanson is not. You seem to like to reference quality starts – Hanson has definately already shown that he can’t devlier those – 1 in his last 6 tries. He happened to get wins because the offense/bullpen bailed him out all of the time.
Why?
August 14th, 2012
12:17 pm
@Ryan…..Thank You!
Craig Miller
August 14th, 2012
12:43 pm
I like the move. We know all too well how badly working guys on 3 days rest went for us in the playoffs over the last 20 years. (Jeez, has it been that long since Glavine, Smoltz and Avery?). And we saw how worn down our guys got last year. I don’t see how extra rest could hurt. A rested starter can hopefully last longer and thus take innings away from the bullpen and keep them rested. Plus, as Freddy seems to know, out of the 6, someone’s going to need to miss a start here and there, and it’ll probably play out as a 5 man rotation most of the time anyway.
Craig Miller
August 14th, 2012
12:44 pm
Also, Sheets especially will probably benefit from the extra rest, considering he hasn’t pitched in two years.
Jay
August 14th, 2012
12:49 pm
My opinion: given the health issues of those in the rotation, doing 28 out of 33 games on 4-days rest seems a lot riskier than temporarily switching to the 6-man. …
5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5, (go to 5-man after 8/30) … 6,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,5,5,5,4,5,5,5,6,6,5,5,5,5,4,4,4 — Those are the starters’ days off, if they stay on the 6-man rotation through 8/29 (8/30 is the off day). Begins with 16 starts with 5-days off. Then Sheets (if stay on current rotation) gets 6 days off (due to the off day) as they switch back to a 5-man. Four 5-day rests on the remainder of that turn through the rotation. Then Eight starts with 4-days rest; then an off day, so then one trip through the rotation with 5-days rest, with one starter then going on 4-days rest before the next off day. Three starts at 5-days rest, before the next off day (last of season) causes next two guys to go on 6-days rest. End season with 7-straight games – first four with 5-days rest, and the last three on 4-days rest. Blah, blah. Long story short: the current 6-man is actually more consistent than a traditional 5-man (without skipping the 5th starter due to off days). If the 6-man stays intact, 20 of the next 21 starts are on 5-days rest, with one on 6-days rest (as they switch back to a “normal” rotation). Of the 26 games after that (with a 5-man rotation), 12 would be on 4-days rest, 12 on 5-days rest, and two on 6-days rest. … If they had stayed on a 5-man, 24 of the next 29 starts would have been on 4-days rest (from here out; going back to last Friday would have made it 28 out of 33 on 4-days rest). Anyway, just some numbers for food for thought. But it seems to me the 6-man is just as consistent and predictable as a 5-man; and the “extra” rest isn’t an abnormal amount (due to normally having an off day a bit more often than every other week, as others have mentioned) – 5 days off per guy per start.
man and dog
August 14th, 2012
12:57 pm
I will be the first to applaud a good performance or decisions OR bitch about a poor performance or decisions. So far, Fredi good – 2 or 3. Bitch, more than I care to admit.
man and dog
August 14th, 2012
1:00 pm
This does not mean I am against 6 man rotation. I am.So Fredie is off the hook on this one.
man and dog
August 14th, 2012
1:07 pm
Jay – are you a computer tech/analysis?
what of it?
August 14th, 2012
1:15 pm
Screw it. they have delgado in the minors why not make it a 7-man rotation. we’ll have the freshest arms in baseball for the post-season. sure we’ll have more starters than relief but what’s good for the goose…
Wren-a-player
August 14th, 2012
1:17 pm
Well………..too many starting pitchers is a good thing isn’t it?……….the way the last few games have gone they will need 2 starters just for long relief……..if Hanson’s fastball doesn’t hit 92-93mph like it used to then he will not be effective and who knows if Sheets will hold up………Frank made a great move with Maholm and Johnson….lets just hope Viscaino doesn’t turn out to be a Pedro Martinez though……….what to do with Teheran and Gilmartin next year???……….trade Teheran to the Royals for Wil Meyers even up so Heyward can take Bourn’s centerfield spot after he leaves and Meyers can take right…………..that way we can have a young core of hitters led by Freeman,Heywar,Simmons,Prado and Meyers if we get him!
coach13
August 14th, 2012
1:21 pm
Send Pastornicky down, he’s not getting any better riding the bench. Let him play some AAA and see if gets better. Prado has proven he can play SS if need be. Better yet send Uggly down.
Atlanta fans need to realize that outside of doing what the Giants did a few years ago (get hot at the right time and have every bounce go their way) they aren’t a championship caliber team.
Pitch or Bitch
August 14th, 2012
1:23 pm
If Hanson doesn’t get any better than he has been these last few starts then I would put him on the DL again and forget about the 6 man rotation……….if he does better then it’s a ClusterF@#k and Medlen goes back to relief.
ChipperisGod
August 14th, 2012
1:27 pm
This’ll either make or break the season. I think Sheets needs a day off, and I think he’s very good overall. He’s pitched fantastic since he’s been back, with that Mets game being the only game he didn’t look really sharp.
But his elbow could explode any second and his conditioning probably isn’t where it should be either since he came in for the middle of the season. I applaud the six man rotation because Hudson and Sheets are older and Hudson himself is battling health issues.
Medlen has pitched great, and once his stamina keeps going up, he’s only going to get better. He’s a fierce competitor, throws strikes and is a true team guy.
Hanson pisses me off. He won’t do what’s best for the team and despite this 12 win season he’s having, he’s getting absolutely shelled by quality opponents and barely getting by weaker opponents. He has a bad attitude in regards to cursing out Rodger and Fredi who were trying to help him by giving him a rehab start.
I like the move because it gives the older guys a day off, I don’t like it because I don’t think Hanson has what it takes to take on quality opponents. I hope I’m wrong, but Hanson has not pitched well in the second half of this year or last year.
We need to win these next three games, get to 20 games over before taking on the Dodgers, Nats and Giants. I look for Hudson to go deep tonight with seven innings, Malholm to go deep tomorrow with eight, and Medlen to go 7 and shut the door on Thursday.
Go Braves!
Dave
August 14th, 2012
1:46 pm
I like Huddy, Maholm, Medlin, Minor & Sheets! Hanson should have been traded away not that good and anyone can steal a base or two on his slow motion delivery to home!
hal
August 14th, 2012
2:00 pm
what i want too know is whats heyworthless hitting with men in scoring postion last two games he bunged up a good looking first inng hes a worthless pos lol
Moneyball
August 14th, 2012
2:27 pm
Mark, I have to disagree. I love the idea of a 6-man rotation during the stretch run. It’s obvious that we can’t count on offense day in and day out so we’re gonna need every quality start that we can get to make a run at the Nats. IMHO, fresher, more rested arms will lend itself well toward that end. Besides, if one of the 6 goes down or needs an extra day off, Frank and Fredi won’t have to scramble to find a last minute replacement.
observer
August 14th, 2012
2:48 pm
When you use a 6 man rotation, each time your #6 gets a start that means one less start for your #1 starter. Your #1 starter gives you a better chance to win. I believe if the Braves had won one more game last year they would have reached the play-offs. Are you sure you think 6 starters makes sense?
Sonny Clusters
August 14th, 2012
3:01 pm
Our little substitute momma Stinger2 has chimed in again about us posting baseball that doesn’t agree with her shallow thoughts. Little one, why don’t you post something even remotely useful about the game and we will then consider if we agree with you or not. We think you may have a crush on us and if that’s true we may want to change our name to something different so you won’t be stalking us and doing creepy stuff like your creepy posts. We may change our name to Stinker2 and go undercover for awhile. Then again, we may ignore your dribble like we are sure everybody else does. Rah, Rah, golly, gee.
c
August 14th, 2012
3:40 pm
Let me get this straight,
There are 47 games left to play, we are six games back in the win column and our manager want’s to go with six starters?
Crickets are chirping…………..and a one game wild card playoff berth awaits while the rest of this season is predictable right down to the last out.
True Braves Fan
August 14th, 2012
3:49 pm
In my day, Feller, Newouser, et al. started evey FOURTH day. I can’ta recall when all teams went to 5 man rotations, but I am sure some columnists was the voice of doom then. Who’s to say that 6 man rotations may not be the norm for all teams in the future?
Scoots
August 14th, 2012
4:14 pm
Bradley – I don’t get the corrollation between the 6-man rotation and last year’s collapse. Last year was all about the overuse of the bullpen and not enough hitting. That’s not the case this year.
You can argue for or against the 6-man vs. 5-man – personally don’t like having 6 days between starts for the #1 starter- but it’s not going to make or break the season. They need to keep playing how they’ve been playing (save for the last 2 days) and take care of business vs. the Nats in the 2 series left against them.
Scoots
August 14th, 2012
4:16 pm
Also, as long as Medlin keeps winning like he is – you HAVE to let him keep starting. Odd man out should be Hanson, or Minor (if Hanson regains form).
Stinger 2
August 14th, 2012
4:43 pm
Clusters: You need to learn what words mean before you use them. The word “dribble” is not a word of speach. The word is drivel. You dribble a basketball or move the soccer ball with a dribble. When someone writes the same old babble on and on like you do its drivel.
That aside, I am not stalking you, just trying to understand why you are so
negative about the Braves you are in every post you make.
longtimefan
August 14th, 2012
4:59 pm
No, Clusters you are wrong. Of the 4 main infielders(Jones, Simmons, Uggla and Freeman) only one has a dWAR below 0-that is Freeman and barely so -0.3. I see you and your high school baseball buddies who get together to write your blog responses( I can only assume that is the “we” reference,a grown man wouldn’t talk otherwise, would he?) have given up on ragging on Chipper. To do otherwise would risk ridicule, given the season Chipper is having. OPS of .880, second only to Wright in NL. Guess you called that one wrong in your many mean spirited posts about our future HOF third baseman. I see you and your “we” buddies are on to your next target-Uggla. Do you have anything good to say? Still mad Chipper wouldn’t sign that ball for you when you were in grade school?
Please get it
August 14th, 2012
5:22 pm
“Tommy Hanson has won 12 games….”
That is not a valid argument.
As a so-called baseball expert, you, Mr Bradley, should know by now that a ptcher’s wins and losses’ record is a meaningless stat.
Get it, just get it, man.
Adam
August 15th, 2012
9:03 am
LOL@ Stinger2…………..and speech is not spelled “speach” (just sayin’ since you are correcting other people)
JNick
August 15th, 2012
9:44 am
Well Mark, I’m glad that your opinions don’t hold weight with Braves management. A 6 man rotation for the next 2-3 weeks makes complete sense.
Keith
August 15th, 2012
9:57 am
Leo Mazzone said it best: going to a 6-man rotation will mess with guys who are pitching well…can mess with their routine and mechanics of everyday stuff.
I hope it doesn’t.
And as much that I want Medlen in the starting rotation, Hanson has never been a reliever. Given our circumstances, Med is probably more valuable in the pen as a bridge to Oflar and Kimbrel than Hanson would be in the pen.
Keith
August 15th, 2012
10:01 am
*clarification
he didn’t say it “will mess” with their route. He said that it “could” unrail their routines…and why mess with all of the pitchers’ routines when you’ve got a good thing going.
My opinion is that fans are probably very divided on this issue.
Mark, take a poll?
Go BRAVES!
Keith
August 15th, 2012
10:14 am
Well, now that I think about it I’m probably in the minority.
I bet it’s 65% those that want a 6 man rotation…and probably only cause that means Medlen starts.
Al
August 15th, 2012
11:27 am
Put Tommy Hanson in and leave Medlen out? Fan favorite or not, Hanson has proven his ability to win 12 games but Medlen has proven that he (almost) can’t lose. The guy is a winner, he has the x factor. Put Tommy in the bullpen before Medlen goes there. We should be asking ourselves why we haven’t been starting Medlen from the beginning, the guy is a catalyst.
space monkey
August 15th, 2012
12:51 pm
Medlen has made three strong starts, yes, but he’s not by trade a full-blooded starter. He’s a spot guy
I don’t understand this thinking if the team needs to win one game, it should start Medlen. He’s an excellent starter.
brad
August 15th, 2012
1:08 pm
You wouldn’t? Amazing!!! maybe that is why you are a third rate writer at a fifth rate paper nd not actually a athlete or manager on ANY level. Just shut up and let the pros make the decisions. You just keep mking liner for my bird’s cage.
Semper Fi Braves fan
August 15th, 2012
10:39 pm
Tommy Hanson last 5 starts haven’t lasted more than 5.1 innings with a 7.57 ERA. During that stretch he was 3-0 with zero quality starts thanks to a more often than not good offense this season.
I used to be a huge Hanson supporter, however because of his comic ability to hold runners, and horrid pitching mechanics he should be sold now with a winning record.
Since July 5th (seeing how we keep talking about that date in time)
Minor is 2-3 with 6 for 6 in quality starts with a 2.60 ERA
Hudson 6-0 with 5 of 8 quality starts with a 2.02 ERA
Sheets 4-2, 6 for 6 quality starts with a 2.13 ERA
Medlen 2-0 1 for 3 Quality starts with a 2.41 ERA
Maholm 2-1 3 for 3 quality starts (with braves) with a 1.69 ERA
Ladies and Gentlemen, your starting rotation.
As for Tommy Hanson, and his agent Scott Borris… send them elsewhere, Gwinett, Macon, the Washington Nationals…. anywhere but in the rotation.
Braves95
August 15th, 2012
11:34 pm
Hanson is NOT a bullpen pitcher. Minor has experience there and so does Medlen. Fredi will pitch whoever he feels is dealing. Hanson came up in 2009!! Are you people nuts!!?!?!? He’s 12-5 with plenty left in the tank. You sound like the same people who were writing off Heyward last year. Also the same people who talk bad about Uggla and come up with new crap to cry and complain about everyday. Don’t quit your day jobs.
Braves95
August 15th, 2012
11:48 pm
If any of you knew anything about baseball, you would know that Medlen’s arm WILL NOT last in the starting rotation for the rest of the season and possibly into the post season. He didn’t prepare his body or arm in the preseason to pitch this many innings. Sure he’s going great now, but Hanson will take his place whether you all like it or not. Fredi knows this, which is why he is the manager!! You people are so delusional to this topic. There are multiple factors and precursors to this puzzle, but Hanson will come back non the less. GET OVER IT!
JNick
August 17th, 2012
3:18 pm
….so…you guys still want to send Medlen back to the bullpen?
JNick
August 17th, 2012
3:26 pm
And when does Minor have bullpen experience?
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