Braves at the break: Another arm could push them to the top
Pitcher Zack Greinke: Today a Milwaukee Brewer, tomorrow an Atlanta Brave? (AP photo)
Something instructive just occurred: The Braves, who rank next-to-last in the National League in quality starts, ran off five in a row. That marked the first time this season that the rotation has turned over while producing only quality starts — at least six innings with three or fewer earned runs — and it came in the five games leading into the All-Star break. Not coincidentally, the Braves won four.
A team treading water began to look again like a good club. Yes, it helped that Brian McCann went on a homer-a-game jag, but in baseball everything starts, duh, with starting pitching. If the Braves pitch better after the break than they did before it, they’ll make the playoffs with room to spare.
For all that didn’t happen over a first half that even the cheerful manager Fredi Gonzalez described as “just OK,” the Braves haven’t played themselves out of anything. They’ve left the impression they coulda/shoulda done better, but what they did wasn’t awful. They’re second in the NL East, four games behind Washington. They’re also second in the wild-card standings, which means they’d qualify if the postseason commenced today.
But that doesn’t mean the Braves are a playoff lock. We learned a year ago that strange things can happen in September, and the strangest things happen when you’re strapped for pitching. That’s what befell the Braves of 2011: Jair Jurrjens and Tommy Hanson got hurt and Derek Lowe couldn’t get anybody out and the rotation was reduced to Tim Hudson and a bunch of kids and the lockdown bullpen finally buckled under the strain.
We’ve already seen the Braves send a 2011 All-Star pitcher (Jurrjens) to the minors and lose their best pitcher (Beachy) to arm surgery. We’ve seen them grow so desperate they dispatched Kris Medlen to Gwinnett to remember how to throw more innings and signed Ben Sheets, who has been out of baseball since 2010, to a minor-league contract. But now the rotation looks as spiffy as it has all season. Time to leave well enough alone?
Nope. Because this rotation just spent three months proving it’s not good enough to sustain a top-shelf team. (Let’s also note that these five quality starts came against sub-.500 opposition.) To make the playoffs and do damage once there, the Braves will need someone who can be better than Jurrjens, Mike Minor and Randall Delgado have been. Maybe it’s Zack Greinke. Maybe it’s Ryan Dempster. From what we saw last week at Turner Field, it’s not Matt Garza.
Landing a Greinke or a Dempster will almost certainly involve trading a young arm for an older one, which isn’t usually wise, and it could yield only a short-term rental. (Both Greinke and Dempster will be free agents. Remember, however, that the Braves won’t be paying Chipper Jones or Lowe next season.) But let’s review where the Braves are: They’ve missed the playoffs five of the past six seasons; they haven’t won a playoff series since 2001, and they’re coming off an Epic Collapse.
This is a big year for everyone involved with the organization. The Braves will reach the trading deadline with a real chance of playing beyond the 162nd game, and July has become a general manager’s time to fish or cut bait. Asked last week if he felt he had work to do this month, Frank Wren said: “We all have work to do.”
It was out of character for Wren to stand pat over the winter. It’s unthinkable he would do it again. His team has two blatant needs — its middling rotation and a lousy bench that will be taxed even more with Andrelton Simmons’ broken finger. Wren needs to address both. The guess here is that, just this once, he’ll be willing to pay a high cost in young talent to do it.
We caught a glimpse of how good the Braves can be if their starting pitchers can get them to the seventh inning. Even with Jonny Venters ineffective/injured, the bullpen is still stellar, and there are enough proven hitters in this batting order to do damage. The reason the Braves haven’t been better is that they haven’t pitched well enough. If Wren can fix that, his team can take the division.
By Mark Bradley
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124 comments Add your comment
Hankie Aron
July 9th, 2012
3:51 pm
First my friends
Benjamin
July 9th, 2012
3:52 pm
First. And I endorse this message.
Nick Purdy
July 9th, 2012
3:52 pm
I see Grienke happening. Delgado goes. Fair trade, even for a rental, which I usually would be against. Owe it to Chipper maybe?
Benjamin
July 9th, 2012
3:53 pm
I never liked Hankie Aron.
Dawg Haus
July 9th, 2012
3:56 pm
I read an opinion piece in the Washington Post that advocated the Nationals signing Greinke to a.) push their pitching over the top and b.) to thwart the Braves’ chances of catching them. Good to know ATL is on their radar, but this deal HAS to get done. Imagine how horrible it would be if the Nats end up signing him.
Wrecker
July 9th, 2012
3:56 pm
@Purdy Yeah, it might take more just to get the rental. With all the money coming off the books from Chipper and Lowe, we might get him or someone else on a sign and trade.
shorty
July 9th, 2012
4:03 pm
Start the 2nd half off right remove the ineptness from the dugout…Fire Fredi the Fail!
Mark Bradley
July 9th, 2012
4:03 pm
Kudos, Hankie. And a hanky for Benjamin over such a narrow loss.
gtt
July 9th, 2012
4:08 pm
Greinke! Not Len Barker!
Sweet Old Buck
July 9th, 2012
4:08 pm
And you already knew about Simmons when you wrote this. What’s your waiver price?
AlanFalcon
July 9th, 2012
4:10 pm
What a forecast, the team has not been consistent in any phase, look at them as a whole, if you trade, trade for next year as this one is already lost whether you know it or not.
Harpie
July 9th, 2012
4:11 pm
Ain’t gonna happen…
Nateforpresidnt
July 9th, 2012
4:11 pm
Hudson,Hanson,JJ,Sheets,Greinke = 2012 world champs.
Trade minor for help on the bench
Chris
July 9th, 2012
4:12 pm
The Nationals aren’t getting Greinke, nor are they trying to. That makes no sense for them and they just gave up a lot of young talent to get Gio. They need a CF, not another starter and they won’t make a lopsided trade just to block the Braves. That doesn’t concern me in the least. The only way the Braves trade for Greinke is if they can be assured that he will sign a long term extension here, which is very possible and would allow the Brewers to get more in return. I can see Dempster as a rental and he might be equally as good for the Braves. I would give up Delgado/Minor and 2-3 prospects for either of those guys, although if I was the Brewers I would be demanding Teheran and then go from there. I think Wren will trade one of Teheran/Delgado/Minor, but not more than that.
Kyle
July 9th, 2012
4:14 pm
You HAVE to trade for a pitcher, preferrably Greinke. An inconsistent line-up combined with a pitching staff that lacks quality starts will not equal success in the playoffs. Thats assuming they even make it. Greinke, Hanson, Hudson, Jurrjens, Minor is strong enough to get you in. Greinke, Hanson, and Hudson can win you a Series if the baseball gods look kindly on Atlanta in October and the Braves get hot a la St. Louis circa 2011.
Chris
July 9th, 2012
4:14 pm
@AlanFalcon, I’m assuming you haven’t been watching this season to think this one is lost. That makes no sense whatsoever. If Beachy and Chipper don’t get hurt, we are in first place. Still, we are right in the middle of the playoff race and with an extra top of the rotation arm and maybe a bench bat, we have the best team in the division and will win the NL East. Not a doubt about at that, just depends on what moves we make and how much they cost us.
JoeFan
July 9th, 2012
4:18 pm
The Braves have to many other holes that need attention rather than over paying for Grienke.The bench is woeful, the bullpen just average. The Braves expecially don’t need a starting pitcher that throws a temper tantrum when an ump’s call doesn’t go his way.
Dawg Haus
July 9th, 2012
4:22 pm
Chris, I don’t really see Washington going after Greinke either. It was an editorial. But just the thought of that happening made my stomach churn. The Braves will get a pitcher (maybe two- I like signing Greinke long-term and renting Dempster) to help out and I think they have enough bargaining chips to make something decent happen.
wayn-o
July 9th, 2012
4:23 pm
HAAA, “if chipper don’t get hurt” yea, right.
willieghatelibertymedia
July 9th, 2012
4:27 pm
they need to get a short stop period trade rookie pitcher for a short stop , to bad furcal didnt resign a gew years ago look the seattle mariners get king felix and there ss for delgado , padtornicky,and 2 more minor leagers and atlanta is in ws as long as chipper is healthy.
Hillbilly D
July 9th, 2012
4:29 pm
Greinke is a better pitcher in Milwaukee, than anywhere else, if you check his home/road splits for the last couple of years. Just something to keep in mind.
I would think the Braves would either go for Greinke or Dempster. Garza would cost them and that’s not Frank Wren’s style.
bvillebaron
July 9th, 2012
4:38 pm
No problem trading one of the heretofore “untouchable” pitching prospects, Pastornicky and a lesser prospect for Greinke IF and ONLY IF you can sign him this year to an extension. He only turns 29 this winter and, if signed to a new contract, could anchor a rotation for at least the next 5 years. If you can’t sign him to an extension, then I say, don’t bother and see if you can sign him this offseason. No more Texerita deals where you give up promising propsects for a rental who leaves and you get nothing or next to nothing in return.
I would NOT make the same deal for Dempster for several reasons. First and most importantly he is older. Second he has alwasy been a good pitcher, but has never been the ace of any staff. Third, he has pitched over his head the first half of this year. Fourth, he has already been on the DL this year and the last thing this rotation needs is another injury to the starting staff.
I also say no to guys like Garza, Millwood, Vargas, etc. Much better to keep this kids and simply deal with their growing pains.
Just my 2 cents.
jfreak13713
July 9th, 2012
4:47 pm
If we can get and KEEP Greinke I’d say make the move with a young arm because Greinke is still young and a proven ace. However, I’d say no on Dempster as he is really a number 2 at best and really a number 3 on the good teams. The Braves certainly need bench help and I suspect that will be their priority. Besides, why give up all your good arms when you can sign Greinke as a free agent after the season for nothing more than a pay check? If Greinke commits to long term deal I’d give the Brewers their pick of any guy on our staff but outside of that I’d wait.
Peter R.
July 9th, 2012
4:48 pm
I don’t think Matt Garza will help us at all. Now we have a glaring need at SS again… The Braves are really hamstrung this season: Chipper is making too money and Lowe’s 10 million has really been the difference. There’s always next year. Might as well avoid making another fiasco trade like the one for Teixeira. The Braves ownership should also get a clue; competing in MLB nowadays typically takes a minimum payroll of 100 million.
Herschel Talker
July 9th, 2012
4:59 pm
MB:
A manager with brain cells could push them to the top.
FIRE FREDI THE FOOL!!!
HT
GT Alum
July 9th, 2012
5:00 pm
Bville -
My feelings exactly. People seem to be forgetting that was the last time we traded for a player to put us over the top. He didn’t put us over the top, and we’d be a stronger team today and over the past few years if we hadn’t thrown all those players at Texas. There’s no guarantee a rental will be the difference maker, so don’t overpay for one.
Brian B
July 9th, 2012
5:03 pm
Deal Minor and another prospect for Greinke … while Minor was more “major-league ready” than some other prospects when drafted out of Vanderbilt, the Braves always thought Delgado, Teheran and Vizcaino had much more upside. Privately, the Braves will tell you that Minor has just about achieved what they think he can. He has AAAA written all over him. I’m prepared to be proven wrong, but I don’t think I am ….
JSS
July 9th, 2012
5:07 pm
That team in DC is like the 91 Braves, tip your hat to them! Come on October 3rd!!!
J-MAN
July 9th, 2012
5:13 pm
I think Hinske and Diaz are no longer effective. We could fix this by trading or releasing them and placing Constanza and Meja to take their spots also we need a utility guy like Omar infante was for us. Now I think we should go after Grienke or Hamels and we need another bullpen arm and my suggestion is Jonathan Broxton.
City of Losers
July 9th, 2012
5:13 pm
The only move to make is by getting a Top Level starter. A Greinke doesn’t give this city a chance for a ring. If we make a move for pitching, it needs to be a guy who starts a Game 1 or Game 2 of a playoff series.
Brian B
July 9th, 2012
5:15 pm
Deal for Greinke … find a right handed bat to come off the bench … plug Pastornicky in at short and hope for the best the next few weeks … hope Venters grabs each ear and pulls his head out … hope everyone stays healthy down the stretch … lot of hope involved, but stranger things have happened.
jerry
July 9th, 2012
5:16 pm
Just make it interesting until football season and I will consider it a successful season.
Brian B
July 9th, 2012
5:18 pm
You don’t have to go out and get an ace, you just have to make it to October. The Cards were nowhere close to the best team in baseball, but they snuck into the playoffs and got hot. You don’t have to be the best over 162 games, you just have to be the hottest for 3-4 weeks in October.
Skeezix
July 9th, 2012
5:19 pm
I agree we need to beef up the pitching and Garza is not the answer. I’m okay with Greinke or Dempster (if FW doing give away the store). Greinke, with his personal issues, may be more of a management challenge for Fredi/Roger, but he no doubt has the talent.
….I read recently that the Phillies might be shopping Hamels.
Skeezix
July 9th, 2012
5:20 pm
correction—…’doesn’t give away the store’
Snake Doc
July 9th, 2012
5:28 pm
Wait, I thought the guy they just signed and sent to Double AA for a couple of starts was the answer to their prayers. Now they need another pitcher even though this team of born again losers can’t hit good pitching?????? Makes no sense to me.
splendid splinter
July 9th, 2012
5:31 pm
MB – One of the best articles and analysis you’ve done lately. In a nut shell – Braves are good but not great – but they could get hot if they make a couple of good trades. I like it and think you hit the nail on the head.
Someone mentioned trading for Hamels. That would be awesome. I had heard earlier he might be on the trading block. He would be worth a couple of good prospects and could power the Braves to the WS.
Chuck70
July 9th, 2012
5:32 pm
@Peter R., You are crazy if you say chipper is making too much money. He should be one of, if not the highest paid player on the team. He is a 20 year veteran, future hall of famer, still one of the best 3rd basemen in the league, and not to mention hes making a fraction of what other players of his caliber make around the league. And I completely agree with you that the brves need to open up to spending more, but frankly part of the reason they dont is because of people like you that do nothing but gripe when they’re giving money to someone that clearly deserves it.
#StraightUpBS
GT Alum
July 9th, 2012
5:32 pm
Plus, in JJ’s 4 starts since coming back, he’s pitched over 25 innings and only given up 6 earned runs. That’s an ERA just over 2. Since a terrible April, Delgado has shown improvement and been a solid fifth starter. Minor’s the weak link that is dragging us down. We’ve still got a little time before the trading deadline to determine if Sheets can fill that spot. The problem is if someone else goes down or is ineffective, we’re looking at Minor/Medlen/Teheran or a waiver deal.
IlliniBrave
July 9th, 2012
5:35 pm
I’m enthusiastic about the idea of getting a quality arm for some top-shelf prospect or two.
But I am absolutely opposed to making any kind of deal for a six-week SS that would involve giving up anybody not named Wilson, Francisco, Hinske,or Diaz. I.e., no deal at all.
The farm system is already thin, and we don’t need to get rid of a prospect for a guy who we really only need for a month or so after the AS break.
Pj
July 9th, 2012
5:37 pm
With the Nats prepared to shut down Strasburg in August, the Braves have the perfect chance to catch and lap Washington.
splendid splinter
July 9th, 2012
5:41 pm
@Chuck70 – Peter R may or may not be a dolt, but I don’t think what Chipper makes has anything to do with what Peter says or thinks
I don’t mean to be critical – I’m just saying….
IlliniBrave
July 9th, 2012
5:50 pm
Pj: Given how well the Nats are doing and how well Strasburg is pitching, it wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t truly shut him down – but instead just limit his starts to 5-6 innings. The opportunity to win now, along with pressure from the media and baseball experts, will convince them to take the risk. Strasburg will want to keep pitching too.
PLEASE SHUT UP
July 9th, 2012
5:58 pm
“Another arm could push them to the top”
How many times have predictions NOT come true? About 98% of the time.
Plate Appearance
July 9th, 2012
6:13 pm
NO MORTGAGE
Frank, don’t mortgage the future for a short term fix.
Don’t put the Braves on the short side of a Smoltz for Alexander type of trade, which would occur with Dempster.
Consider where the Braves might be today if they had not traded four quality prospects for Tex — two of which will be in this year’s all star game.
Don’t trade for someone who’s going to bolt for other pastures in a few months, who has no certainty of being signed long term, as with Grienke.
Don’t make this same mistake again — especially with Fredi yet “functioning” as the manager.
Think long term! Not short term!
Replacing Fredi would give the team a well needed boost without expending any prospects.
Go in this direction Frank!
Please, do go in this direction!
No more mortgages!
Hillbilly D
July 9th, 2012
6:17 pm
Illini Brave
I agree. If they are in a close race, I just don’t see the Nats shutting down Strasburg. And what if they make the playoffs, which looks like a good bet? Is he going to be shutdown through October, too? I’ll have to see that to believe it.
Hillbilly D
July 9th, 2012
6:18 pm
The Smoltz for Doyle Alexander trade was actually a good trade for both teams. Detroit needed someone to get them over the hump and the Braves needed a young pitcher with upside. Both teams got what they needed.
DaveinNEPA
July 9th, 2012
6:30 pm
Find a defensive SS on the waiver wire and call it a day with the trades.
This team is too inconsistent in too many areas to be giving up talented young players hoping to sneak into the playoffs.
IMO the only other things Wren needs to do between now and the end of the season are resign or extend Michael Bourn and cut ties with Fredi G. and Roger McD.
ChopChamps95
July 9th, 2012
6:30 pm
“Consider where the Braves might be today if they had not traded four quality prospects for Tex — two of which will be in this year’s all star game.”
At the time it may have been 4, but now its 3. I wouldn’t put Salty in that category anymore. Beau Jones (I think that was his last name) will be a career minor leaguer and Salty will end up being a journeyman. When Lavarnway is ready to assume the everyday role at catcher in Boston, he will personally show Salty to the door.
bfred
July 9th, 2012
6:34 pm
From what I’ve heard Strasberg would likely be shut down shy of 160 innings, then ramped back up for the post-season. If the Nats make the playoffs he will be in the rotation for sure.
I think everyone’s in agreement we can afford to deal some young arms if and only if Grienke (really the only one I really like) agrees to a long-term deal. He’s proven and he’s relatively young; that’s a nice combination.
ChopChamps95
July 9th, 2012
6:37 pm
Dave, I’m betting he sits tight on waiver deals and takes a chance with Pastornicky and I’d even go as far to say if Pastor does well while Simmons is out, Wilson is as good as gone. And as far as canning Fredi goes…….I definitely could see Wren pulling the plug before the season is done if they fall out of it. Wren didn’t choose Fredi as the manager, Cox did so the loyalty to keep him isn’t there if someone needs to be the fall guy. But with that being said, at the same time I could also see Wren doing nothing in the offseason and the entire coaching staff being brought back if we miss the postseason or not.
IlliniBrave
July 9th, 2012
6:39 pm
@Dave: I like the idea of picking up a piece-of-trash SS on the waiver wire – one that will cost us nothing and then we can dump him when Andrelton comes back. We should not give up ANYTHING for any position player. A pitcher maybe. But not a SS.
Timothy Bradley
July 9th, 2012
6:47 pm
No rentals. The Texiera Tax is still being collected.
Vel Crow
July 9th, 2012
6:49 pm
The Braves should make a play for Trevor Plouffe to upgrade their bench. The guy is a righthanded power hitter, who plays six positions for the TWINS. He also has hit 19 hrs and is only 26 years old and can take over 3rd base when Chipper retires.
Mark Bradley
July 9th, 2012
6:49 pm
Just for the record: Fredi Gonzalez was Frank Wren’s choice. Bobby Cox had no role in picking his successor.
Sonny Clusters
July 9th, 2012
6:55 pm
Well, we hate to dispute what Mark just said but we have it on good authority that Bobby Cox picked Fredi right out of his nose! Frank Wren has a little bird nose but everybody knows Bobby Cox had a stretched out nose from all that nose picking. Now, it may be gross but that’s what we heard from a good friend of ours who cashes a major league paycheck.
Stinger 2
July 9th, 2012
7:05 pm
Clusters: Your comment is much worse than gross. Its nasty and has no place on any blog. Do yo ever say anything positive about any Brave player or the management? Also, I would believe Mark knows a lot more about what happens relating to Managers being picked by whom than you do.
ChopChamps95
July 9th, 2012
7:05 pm
Mark I believe that about as much as I believe OJ, Ray Lewis, and Casey Anthony are all innocent of the murder charges they dodged. We’ll have to agree to disagree. Every company, organization, etc has stuff they make public for everyone to know and stuff on the inside only they know. Wren may have given the final stamp of approval but everyone with a brainstem know FG was Cox’s sole hand picked replacement and no one else’s.
IlliniBrave
July 9th, 2012
7:16 pm
@Vel Crow: not gonna get Plouffe – just like you’re not gonna get Trumbo, Trout, Jennings, Harper, Goldshmidt, Desmond, or any of the other breakout players. These are the guys that organizations wait on for one or two per decade. It would take either malcontent on the part of the player – think Rasmus or Escobar – or a serious personal problem – aka Josh Hamilton – or a major return on the investment. You got a better chance of waiting for hell to freeze over or to see Fredi quit tipping his cap.
ACE
July 9th, 2012
7:17 pm
No way Frank made the decision to hire Fredi without Bobby’s blessing. If you think so just keep on drinking that koolaid.
Double Zero Eight
July 9th, 2012
7:30 pm
I disagree. The Braves are more in need of
a big bat than another arm.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 9th, 2012
8:01 pm
Mark Bradley, correct to a tee.
This 2012 edition needs another quality starter, preferably one who won’t cost the farm. My money is on the Twins Francisco Liriano. He’s a lefty, never pitched in the NL which alone is a huge advantage. Not to mention his 2.74 ERA since rejoining the Twins rotation, in which Liriano has made eight starts (six quality) and he’s up for free agency….. Bringing his trade value down.
As for the our putrid bench, I told you so. Wren knew this could happen and it has. They don’t have the depth to sustain injuries to the starting eight. This is Wren’s fault and he knows it.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
July 9th, 2012
8:06 pm
Double Zero Eight
July 9th, 2012
7:30 pm
I disagree. The Braves are more in need of
a big bat than another arm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Um REALLY?
No. Bradley is correct, we need pitching and the math proves Mark to be right. We have scored 391 runs in 85 games played. Equaling out to 4.6 runs per contest which ranks 4th in the NL out of 16 teams.
JC Boscan III
July 9th, 2012
8:08 pm
Ben Sheets – 1 hitless inning with a strikeout, only took 9 pitches to get 3 outs. Much better beginning than his first AA start….. for whatever it’s worth!
Geno
July 9th, 2012
8:08 pm
Wow! Good comments overall! Good article, Mark. Let’s hope that a move is made for a starting pitcher and I agree that we should stand pat on ss. A bench player(s) would also be a breath of fresh air. Hinske is definitely on the downside, and Diaz, while gritty, is too inconsistent. Wilson is no help. Waiver wire should be examined to reload the bench. I prefer Minor over Delgado, but thats just me. After opening the year with that 4 game losing streak and then the 8-game debacle, I’m just happy to be in the mix of things. Go Braves!
VinceVanGo
July 9th, 2012
8:50 pm
I agree that the Braves need another starter, a super utility player that can hit .240, and an overhaul of the bench, but I’m more concerned with what happens in the off season. The Braves have little chance to re-sign Michael Bourne, and the Nationals need a center fielder. If they get Bourne they’ll rule the East for 5 years. Mark it down!
Sonny Clusters
July 9th, 2012
9:06 pm
Tender Little Man, thank you for correcting us, our Momma was busy.
DawgDad
July 9th, 2012
9:30 pm
The Braves are a thin, fragile team. It makes no sense to send prospects packing in hopes of a shot at a one-game playoff. Either go all-in to win the Division or sell the guys who aren’t going to help the Braves win down the road. Half-hearted efforts are doomed.
With Simmons healthy I figured they needed the normal bench and bullpen adjustments plus a starter and right-handed bat for the middle of the order. Add a starting shortstop to the list now. Chipper and Simmons are question marks; if the Braves go into September without a right-handed bat in the middle of the order or a Major League shortstop it will be 2011 all over again. Dan Uggla could rebound. Wren has an $8.5 million bet on that.
Some posters seem to have forgotten how bad Pastornicky played, and some don’t fully appreciate what Simmons contributes to the pitching. Simmons deserves a healthy share of the credit for the quality starts streak. Pastornicky is not a Major League shortstop, and should not even be in the discussion.
NickGranite
July 9th, 2012
9:48 pm
To win the world championship, you need an ace you can pencil in for two wins in a series. Do we have guys that can win two games? Perhaps but the odds are against you matched up against a Verlander or a Kershaw. Since Beachy is gone, our guys are good 3.5 era and above pitchers who throw a real nice game once in awhile. If you want to get to the series, go get Greinke.
Tom(Independent-Viet Vet USAF)
July 9th, 2012
10:00 pm
Thinking we need a solid IF player more than a pitcher for the next 6-8 weeks is my opinion? Jeff Keppinger of TB would be my choice. A solid .300 hitter who rarely strikes out and can play all the IF positions. Would be good for fan base, since he is former Parkview HS(Gwinnett Cty) and UGA star! Good choice if you ask me.
Hugh Jass
July 9th, 2012
10:01 pm
Problem is with the second wild card tons of teams are still in it. That means there will be more buyers than sellers at the trade deadline and that drives the price up.
eastbound and down
July 9th, 2012
10:05 pm
MB,
thanks for stating the obvious but i gotta ask how many titles did Texiera bring? or Sheffield? or Drew? this team doesn’t improve in the off season but is always ready to overpay in the middle of the season. the inmates are running the asylum. by the way, remind us again how the braves making the playoffs last year was a certainity.
arrowhead1959
July 9th, 2012
10:26 pm
This has to be the worst Braves bench in years; I agree, especially with the Simmons injury, Keppinger would be a good get. I was hoping they would get him last year when he was being moved.
Bill
July 9th, 2012
10:49 pm
If the Braves want Zack they better get busy because the Texas Ranger have been talking with them to get him per MLB.
With Simmons out the Braves are not the same team that beat Phillies. Phillies didn’t pitcher their star pitchers against Braves.
Braves bench sucks no other way to explain it. Wren needs to wake up and smell the roses and get rid on the crap.
Go Braves!
Bill
July 9th, 2012
10:53 pm
Kippinger would be a great pick-up if they would trade him.
Wilbo
July 9th, 2012
11:10 pm
Oh, my God, here we go again. One thing I despise about Atlanta sports is the gullible starcrossed bunch of 1/2 witted homer sportswriters, telling us at every drop of the hat, THIS could be the ONE itsy bitsy teeny weeny piece this team needs to win a _______.
Not ONE of anything– arm, bat, fielder, manager, GM, alien landing, goat roping– except maybe a permanent league wide scoreboard malfunction– is going to put these Atlanta Braves at the top of the NL East October 1st. Not one of anything is going to cause this up and down, off and on team to do anything in the playoffs (should they happen to get there) other than what they always do in the playoffs– bow out quickly & quietly– and all our nincompoop sportswriters need to shut up, and quit telling us, “This could be the one thing!!!”
Bradley, you need to be writing about the Little Theatre in Summerville, SC or something tame like that.
Delbert D.
July 9th, 2012
11:10 pm
I’m giving the go-ahead for the Greinke trade.
Ted M
July 9th, 2012
11:27 pm
The Braves need a back-up infielder. Jack Wilson has no business whatsoever of being on the Braves team. He can not hit at all… its Greg Norton all over again. Plus he’s not that good of a fielder or base runner. No offense to JW the person but he is totally worthless…why do the Braves loves these kinda players?
George Washington
July 9th, 2012
11:28 pm
chuck70idiot-chipper “no show” jones is playing 60% of the games so far this season. When he agrees to play for 60% of his salary, I’ll agree he’s earning his pay. Screw what he did 5 years ago. We want to win this season. People like you are the problem. We have to demand 100% effort and determination every game and every season. chipper jones is a leech to this team-sucking the life out because he “deserves” his salary for past performances. Where were all those key hits in the 14 division wins and only one world series when the Braves lost by 1-2 runs? He’s been payed well and does not deserve half of his salary this season. I guess the idiots that offered the contract is just as guilty. It’s tough being a Braves fan
Ham and eggs
July 10th, 2012
5:04 am
No one talks of suprise teams at break Pittsburgh Pirates are leadin central divison again at 48-37 at all star break …lets see if this team learns n do not fold it be good for Pittsburgh finally win a divison n get back in Playoffs since 92 Folks….I just wish Pirates owner and GM would change that gross Pirate figure n put back the Original logo face back from 1972….
Buzz2011
July 10th, 2012
5:55 am
Another arm could push them to the top!!!! What team is Bradley talking about?
It can’t be the Atlanta Braves.. They need about three more ” arms” and five more
hitters. They need a second sacker and another catcher.. Not sure what team
Bradley has been watchibg. The Braves finish fourth or fifth in their division.
Buzz2011
July 10th, 2012
6:00 am
@DawgDad ” Thin and fragile.”..Were you talking about The Dawgs or the Braves?
Not to worry , they both should come in at least fifth in their divisions
double
July 10th, 2012
8:03 am
Errors & Excuses-Sho enough,who would have thunk it?The Braves need another good starting pitcher.
Uncle Tom
July 10th, 2012
8:11 am
Mark,
WHY do the Braves allow their players to head-first slide? SImmons has now broken his finger, and Jason Heyward has taken almost 2 years to recover from jamming his shoulder on a head-first slide. Does the coaching staff have no control over such things?
braveshoo
July 10th, 2012
8:16 am
Priority #1: Resign Bourn now for 10m for 5 years. With him we have the best defensive outfield in the majors, and without him we have no CF or leadoff hitter next year. Priority #2: Get an ace. If Greinke is the man, and he can be signed now for 5 years at 15-20m per year, then trade one of your young pitchers to get him. You cant include Pastornicky because you need him to fill in at SS for Simmons who may not be back this year. If you cant do that, forget rentals, and let the young starters continue to get experience and get better. As a longtime Braves fan, I will be very disappointed if we sacrifice our future just to try to win this year. Priority #3: Improve our bench. I would cut Wilson and Henske, and fill them with some of our guys who are doing well at AAA. A low or mid level prospect for a good relief pitcher would be helpful. Priority #4: Sign longterm our core ballplayers that we must keep longterm- Bourn, Prado, Heyward, McCann, Freeman, Simmons, Hanson, Kimbrel.
Our bench sucks out LOUD
July 10th, 2012
8:51 am
We have Ross, end of story. Wilson, Diaz, Francisco, & now Hinske all stink. Our hitting is inconsistent & so is the pitching, the NL is wide open but the Braves dont have the horses to take it, might make the playoffs but then same old story, wont score enough to even compete, take the Chipper/Lowe money & go after Wright @ 3rd, let McCant walk after next year & resign Bourn, you listening FW???
chris
July 10th, 2012
8:57 am
The rockies are looking to move Marco Scutaro. He could be useful at SS until Simmons gets back and then he could be moved to the super utility role. I think he is hitting like .277 That would end Jack Wilson’s time with the Braves
Double Zero Eight
July 10th, 2012
8:58 am
Without the addition of a big bat, the Braves
are doomed for a very quick exit, in the event
they make the playoffs.
The current roster has a history of not being
able to hit top tier pitching, which is what they
would be facing in the playoffs. You can throw the
runs per game average for the regular season out
the window.
If the goal is to merely make the playoffs, then go
for the arm.
valdosta native
July 10th, 2012
9:10 am
“Ben Sheets allowed three runs — two earned — over 5 2/3 innings in his second start for Double-A Mississippi Monday.Sheets gave up seven hits, walked no one and struck out four, needing 89 pitches to cover the 5 2/3 frames. That’s two decent, but far from great, appearances for the veteran right-hander. The Braves will leave it up to him to decide whether he’ll now join the major league rotation on July 15 or make another start in the minors. We’re guessing he picks the former. Jul 9 – 10:00 PM”
Taylor Wooten
July 10th, 2012
9:16 am
Yep, another strong proven pitcher would be a huge help. But looks like the penny wise and pound fooling Execs rather take a cheap gamble on a surgically repaired, out of baseball pitcher from yesteryear. Always a good “plan”….huh.
Taylor Wooten
July 10th, 2012
9:17 am
Prove me wrong Braves/Liberty Execs.
Get Greinke. You got plenty of cash laying around in Liberty.
Mister Frisky
July 10th, 2012
9:36 am
Bench is worst in baseball and at the end of the day it will be the offense as it has been for two decades that will come up short.
Don
July 10th, 2012
9:40 am
Where are all of you – and I do mean ALL of you (almost all anyway) who were calling me an idiot and worse all winter when I kept saying that the Braves were going to have Pitching problems.
It was no mystery – when you had 4 of your 5 Starters from last season coming off injuries – And when Pitchers are injured, they seldom return to their former greatness (they may return to being fairly good – but seldom to their former greatness).
And when, in the last 7 years since Leo left – the huge number of Starting Pitchers who have ended up being injured.
Of course, this year we do have the great rookie Starter who is leading the league in ERA and also the great young reliever from last year. OOPS, NOW BOTH OF THEM HAVE ALREADY BEEN INJURED.
And it goes ON and ON and ON and ON and ON —————————————————————
Weyman C. Wannamaker Jr (A Great American)
July 10th, 2012
9:49 am
Mark Bradley: “Another arm could push them to the top”
That’s the thinking that brought us Len Baker!
Preston Hannatized
July 10th, 2012
10:39 am
The Braves are alive at the break – that is more than I expected given their floundering through most of May/June. I still think are too many questions.
Is JJ back to early 2011? Can the Braves replace Simmons for 30+ games? Not with Jack Wilson.
Greinke would be a big get, but how can anyone guess what Sheets will do?
McCann has to stay hot and not wear down with 70 more games at catcher. Chipper has to stay in the lineup 80% of the time. Uggla has to do his middling BA, 15-20 HR second half.
The biggest Q of all – will they play for Fredi? He was clueless in September and was probably a few games from being fired until they ran off this pre-ASG streak.
Back to first.....
July 10th, 2012
10:44 am
Dempster is the answer. He’s pitching better than Greinke and we already have the future. Plus he’s cheaper!!!
Go Braves!
MikeY
July 10th, 2012
10:56 am
Better move would be to trade for a reliever (Beimel or Lyon) and then move Medlen to the rotation.
DW
July 10th, 2012
10:57 am
When does Johnny Venters go to the AAA Gwinnett ??
Jim
July 10th, 2012
11:06 am
The Braves SHOULD not trade any young talent for an also ran or rent-a-player. Wren has been operating at the margin on mid-year trades for the past several seasons. NO MORE TEIXERIA OR DREW TRADES THAT BLEED OUR FUTURE! We need some bold moves or the future.
1) Pitch Minor, Delgado, Medlin, etc for the complete year. Let the young picters develop.
2) Trade McCann at the deadline for young talent. Bring up prospect Betancourt and let him play.
3) Trade Bourne now for young talent. Given Scott Boras is his agent, we will not be able to sign him.
4) If Chipper will go to a World Series contendng team, trade him as well.
5) Use the money from Chipper, Lowe, McCann, Bourne, etc to get a top notch third baseman for 2013.
dtanner
July 10th, 2012
11:15 am
braves payroll middle of the pack,braves record middle of the pack,they go hand in hand,another reason i no longer watch baseball
Don
July 10th, 2012
11:34 am
EVERYTHING ELSE – MATTERS NOT – As long as we contiue to get all (or almost all of our great pitching talent INJURED – like we have for the 7 long years since Leo left.
Just Wanna Say
July 10th, 2012
12:13 pm
I can’t remember what website it was, whether it was Olney or something quoted on mlbtraderumors, but Greinke has come out and said that he would like to play in Atlanta. To me, that means he is worth the players because we can resign him in the winter. Sheets has looked okay so far as well. Could actually end up having a pretty good rotation.
WhoCares?
July 10th, 2012
12:54 pm
Greinke is a little shaky emotionally, has had trouble pitching in the spotlight. Not sure he’s best for Atlanta. How about Felix Hernandez? He’s young and a power thrower, certainly a No. 1, and Seattle has a lot of needs. Could we throw enough at them to get King Felix before the Red Sox?
P Rose
July 10th, 2012
12:55 pm
Couldn’t disagree with you more this time, Mark. Trading Minor or Delgado would be disatrous in the long run. Forget this season. It’s all about Chipper, not making the playoffs. They won’t, no matter what they do — especially since they just had a major downgrade at shortstop. The young arms will come around next year. They just need some major league seasoning. Remember Glavine’s, Maddux’s and Smoltz’s early numbers — they weren’t good. I’m not saying Minor and Delgado are Glavine and Smoltz, but they are going to be a lot better than Dempster and Greinke in a year or two, especially since Dempster and Greinke will be long gone after their contracts are up. Neither of them is that much a difference maker anyway. The Braves need to be patient, accept that this year is a wash, and rebuild for years to come by standing pat with their batch of talented young pitchers.
Skokie Dog
July 10th, 2012
12:59 pm
Len Barker is available, and we won’t have to give up any young prospects to sign the guy. Don’t forget, he once threw a no-hitter!
Jimbo Donnan
July 10th, 2012
1:01 pm
Why do people keep mentioning Sheets? He is a complete question mark, who will get one, maybe two starts before they realize Minor/Delgado are better. Dude hasn’t pitched in two years… yeah, that’ll put us over the top…
DHD
July 10th, 2012
1:02 pm
It’s that crazy Bobby Cox’s fault. Kinda like blaming Bush, you know.
Homer the Braves
July 10th, 2012
1:04 pm
That Scott Diamond trade ain’t looking to good right now (unless you’re a Twins fan).
Homer the Braves
July 10th, 2012
1:21 pm
The Braves have announced that Ben Sheets is scheduled to pitch Sunday against the Mets. They left the decision to Sheets as to whether or not he wants to make a 3rd start for Mississippi before being activated. It looks like he’s ready to go.
Mark's for the braves
July 10th, 2012
2:01 pm
If Sheets is even close to his old form that will be a huge shot in the arm. Trade for a SP, too, but don’t give up the farm.
willieghatelibertymedia
July 10th, 2012
3:14 pm
land of whatever yr name is yousaid go longterm, the braves havent won a ws in 17yrs they have on bren in plsyoffs 1 in 6 yrs and it been so damn long i cant remember when they made it to second long term my heine you must be stupid.
Richie
July 10th, 2012
3:15 pm
How about attempting to acquire Brendan Ryan from the Mariners for our SS needs? Real strong glove and can play pretty much all over the field. Primary spot would be short. Braves need to maintain the defense they lost with Simmons out
BigdaddyJ
July 10th, 2012
3:23 pm
Need some bench help. Hinske has gone awol. Wilson is awful with the bat…
willieghatelibertymedia
July 10th, 2012
3:35 pm
ben sheets is giving up 3 or 4 down there in minors he will give up 8 up here these guys are major leaguers here film to watch pitcher study them and sunday santana who is santsna of old is back and daturday mr knuckelball dickey the braves csnt win at home sorry fans sheets will fall like rain out of dky hes not yr savior with yr ownership no one is
willieghatelibertymedia
July 10th, 2012
3:44 pm
ben sheets the braves must be living in fantasy land
LawDawg
July 10th, 2012
3:53 pm
If we could get Greinke long-term and add a decent bat at third to replace chipper after the season, that would be pretty great. With Lowe and Chipper both off the payroll, they should definitely chase Greinke before the deadline.
Drew
July 10th, 2012
4:38 pm
They need a #1 starter. Without a top starter, they will never be a serious championship condender. I can’t think of a team in the last 20 years that has won without a top caliber pitcher. While the staff they have (including a healthy Beachy) is nice and promising, they are not the #1 that they need.
Old Dog
July 10th, 2012
5:08 pm
Yankees and Red Sox will not pursue Greinke for what was called personal issues.
Who's Gault? A Fictional Character!
July 10th, 2012
5:09 pm
Oh the Braves will do what they do best… pick up an over-the-hill retread pitcher and see if he’s got something in the tank… and then the Braves will claim they’ve solidified the position!!! So tired of this.
JoeyBagOBravos
July 10th, 2012
5:09 pm
I hate to trade young arms as much as anyone, but it’s getting to the point that we are hoarding them.
There isn’t enough room for 7 starters (Hudson, Hanson, Jurrgens, Minor, Delgado, Teheran, Sheets) and eventually Beachy – 8 starters.
If we can get Greinke, a Cy Young winner by trading one arm and some other marginal prospects, then so be it. If we can get Justin Upton by trading a starter or two, then so be it.
2011champs
July 10th, 2012
5:35 pm
Yeah, yeah, yeah… Mark, you are the same one that thought the Braves had it made in the shade last year, and I tried to tell you who would be the wild card team, but as usual with you, it did not sink in. Let me go on the record now and tell you up front that they are a 3rd place team with absolutely no leadership either on or off the field, and they will not be a playoff team.
Braves face questions at shortstop, New York Mets to open second half | Atlanta Braves
July 13th, 2012
1:48 pm
[...] The Braves still rank only 12th in the National League with a 4.11 ERA from their starters, but they’ve got to feel good about what they’ve gotten from their starters of late. The Braves put up five quality starts the last time through the rotation, going 4-1 with a 2.97 ERA, as esteemed colleague Mark Bradley talked about in his column. [...]
Braves face questions at shortstop, New York Mets to open second half | MLB.Fans-Talk.com
July 14th, 2012
2:50 am
[...] The Braves still rank only 12th in the National League with a 4.11 ERA from their starters, but they’ve got to feel good about what they’ve gotten from their starters of late. The Braves put up five quality starts the last time through the rotation, going 4-1 with a 2.97 ERA, as esteemed colleague Mark Bradley talked about in his column. [...]
pepper
July 16th, 2012
9:51 am
First, the goal is not to make the playoffs. The goal is to win a championship. Just making the playoffs is what the Hawks have been selling us for years now. Is that the best the Braves can aspire to? Make the playoffs and pray we get hot? Is that an actual “plan” or is that simply a fantasy Liberty Media peddles to keep ticket sales high? There is no way that Grienke gets us over the top to a championship team for all the reasons Bradley has already laid out above. Second, the only reason we have a roster issue right now is that we don’t have Matt Harrison starting for us, Feliz bolstering the bullpen and Elvis Andrus at shortstop. We have none of these players because we had an “all in” year and sold them for Mark Teixeira. How did that work out? Why does it work out better now? I”ve got an idea. Why don’t we keep those players and let them develop? Ah, nevermind. the organization that trades the entire career of Adam Wainright for one season of JD Drew is unlikely to understand what I’m saying. Third, after this season is over, we’ll have issues at catcher, left field and center field. That is gonna cost real money to fix. Do we want to lock down a huge contract for Grienke and then have to fill in with marginal players to solve those slots OR do we want to count on our young pitchers to grow into their talent? I remember the bloody mess that Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddox were their first seasons. They got better. So will our young starters if we have faith and patience. Fourth, why don’t we take a slightly longer view here. Next year, Chipper retires and Prado to 3B. Bourn will be very expensive to sign and we still have a LF hole. If we are insistent on trading a good prospect or two, then why don’t we simply go get Justin Upton? He’s under a reasonable contract for multiple years. he’s got as much talent as Heyward. He and Heyward could anchor middle of our lineup at MVP levels for the next decade with a terrific 1-2 punch AND both are terrific fielders. This would leave the Braves with enough money to solve other problems with actual talent. Maybe we would then have the money for a Bourn or to sign Mccann or go get a third quality outfielder.
could we possibly think beyond this particular moment in time?