Is the ACC doomed? Hardly, and here are the reasons why
OK, so it isn't football, but it's still an off-tackle dive play. (AJC photo by Johnny Crawford)
Let’s be clear: The ACC has work to do. But that’s not nearly the same as being doomed, which is how some have characterized the conference after the double hit of Florida State’s (apparently overstated) flirtation with the Big 12 and the announcement of the SEC/Big 12 New Year’s Day bowl. As a public service, we attempt to distinguish flaming hyperbole from colder reality.
The ACC needs to tie itself to a big new bowl. This part is true. Indeed, this is essential. The chance of the champions from the SEC and the Big 12 being omitted from the presumptive four-team BCS playoff is small; the chance of an ACC titlist not making the final cut is rather larger. (No ACC team has played for the BCS title since Florida State in 2000, which was so long ago that Mark Richt was the Seminoles’ offensive coordinator.)
To be considered viable, the ACC cannot have its champ landing in, say, the Champs Sports Bowl. Nobody knows how the postseason matrix will look two years down the road — will existing bowls become part of the BCS tournament? — but the ACC can’t wait. It must find itself a worthy partner. That partner need not be the Big East, the least of the Big Six football leagues. Better for the ACC to forge an alliance with the runner-up from the Big Ten or the Pac-12 or even the SEC than to be doomed to a decade of playing Cincinnati. (Pie-in-the-sky scenario: The ACC aligns itself, bowl-wise, with Notre Dame.)
Florida State is already gone. Not true. Not even close. This whole kerfuffle resulted from Andy Haggard telling Warchant.com that the Board of Trustees “would be in favor of seeing what the Big 12 has to offer.” But ESPN obtained a memo written by FSU president Eric Barron that outlined the pros and cons of such a move, and the cons outnumbered the pros 7-4. Not least: “The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker.”
The Big 12 needs Florida State more than FSU needs the Big 12. Even after adding West Virginia and TCU, the Big 12 is up to only 10 members. Any school considering Big 12 relocation must grasp that the Big 12 exists to prop up Texas. From Barron’s memo: “Colorado, Missouri, Nebraska and Texas A&M left the Big 12 at least in part because the Big 12 is not an equal-share conference. Texas has considerably more resource avenues and gains a larger share (and I say this as a former dean of the University of Texas at Austin).”
Florida State joined the ACC in 1991 for two reasons: Better academics and a clearer path to the football national championship. All that has changed is that Florida State hasn’t lately held up its football end. Were the Seminoles still going 12-0 or 11-1, they’d be in the BCS title mix. Rightly or wrongly, the Seminoles are still seen as the ACC’s football factory. In the Big 12, they’d stand third behind Texas and Oklahoma. Would that be an upgrade?
ACC commissioner John Swofford should again don his poacher’s hat. As unseemly as this sounds, it’s a pragmatic truth. The league will expand to 14 teams when Syracuse and Pittsburgh arrive, and it needs to grow more — and only in part because of football.
Swofford’s theft of Syracuse and Pittsburgh from the Big East changed the balance of basketball power. The ACC reclaimed first place in that derby, and for as much money as football generates we cannot forget that basketball is itself an attractive commodity. Simple math: The football season lasts roughly four months; the basketball season runs from mid-November to early April, which is closer to five months. And basketball teams play 30-some games, as opposed to 12 or 13, making for many more programming opportunities.
Swofford should go hard at UConn and Louisville, schools that graced the past two Final Fours and play competitive football. (Kansas would be a target if it hadn’t pledged to forfeit Big 12 TV money if it leaves.) Those two would stretch the ACC map and would make this the basketball league to end all basketball leagues. Marketing slogan: “You might not want to coach here, but you’ll darn sure watch our games!”
Such a course might seem counter-intuitive, but better for the ACC to play to its strength than a perceived weakness. Realistically, what available schools would burnish the ACC’s football image? (Notre Dame, maybe?) That doesn’t mean the league can’t survive: Not if its champ is given a chance to play for the BCS title when a chance is warranted; not if its champ is assured a profitable bowl home if it doesn’t make the four-team playoff, and not if good football is paired with great basketball.
One thing more: This isn’t the first time we’ve wondered if the ACC is bound for oblivion. But a check of history shows that the conference hasn’t lost a member since 1971, when Frank McGuire tired of his South Carolina Gamecocks getting beat in the ACC tournament. This league isn’t as bold and brassy as the SEC, but in its understated way it hangs tough. It’s not going away just yet.
By Mark Bradley
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401 comments Add your comment
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
3:26 pm
@ old dog……unfortunately, I don’t think the SEC wants Tech
old dog
May 24th, 2012
3:29 pm
@Supersize (and go back a page or two and see my little post on our recruiting, too..)
I’d love to have Tech……big Atlanta market, SEC teams for the most part travel well, and (like us or hate us) the SEC IS the dominant conference in football. I believe Tech would be a good addition……
old dog
May 24th, 2012
3:31 pm
@Supresize,
I may have left that post on Tech’s blog….my bad…
old dog
May 24th, 2012
3:40 pm
S-size,
On Ken Sugiura’s blog about Radakovich, scheduling, etc. (An answer to your recruiting summary.)
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
4:00 pm
@ old dog…….you know, you are one of very few UGA fans who post on Tech blogs or Tech-related blogs that actually shows some signs of intelligence and class. I think you and I would probably get along fine in real life; I DO have a few friends who are UGA fans, and, although we may kid around some about the rivalry, we never offend each other. You’d better watch your back though; some of these mutt trolls might try to get you……LOL
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
4:01 pm
Damn filters……SHEESH
@ old dog, I’m trying to respond to you, but it didn’t go through for some reason. I’ll try again
You are one of very few UGA fans who post on Tech blogs or Tech-related blogs to show any signs of intelligence or class. I think you and I would actually get along in real life.
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
4:02 pm
@ old dog……I am trying to compliment you, but for some reason what I have attempted to post has been blocked twice
old dog
May 24th, 2012
4:18 pm
@Supersize,
Mark does that sometimes….ad da sentence or two and ask him to free it up… he did it for whoever “Delbert D.” is….
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
4:27 pm
@ old dog……what I was trying to say is that you are one of few UGA posters who seem to have intelligence and class
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
4:31 pm
I have friends here in Augusta who are UGA fans, and although we may kid around a lot about the rivalry, we keep it friendly and civil
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
4:32 pm
@ old dog……I know UGA fans here in Augusta, and although we may kid around a lot, we do keep it friendly and civil
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
4:33 pm
Well, I tried to say more, but it won’t go through. I’ll just leave it at that
djack0062
May 24th, 2012
6:00 pm
Tech to the SEC…Lets be honest..we can’t compete with the LSU’s, Georgia, Bama and Auburn or out recruit them…Yes the stands will be “full” but sure enough after not making it to the SEC title game or a few sub-par seasons…all hell is gonna break lose. Tech’s glory days prior to intergration are gone. The “super recruits” won’t come to Tech because of the narrow curriculum/don’t qualify and lack of social life. Atlanta is a great city..but it cost to party and to stay in Tech you do have to show up in class-which adds up to no time for fun! (Why in the hell would you want to go to Athens if it wasn’t for the “party”, women and the varied curriculum). The super jocks see $NFL$ and if it wasn’t for the lack of a semi pro feeder system, college football would be lets say for “student-athletes”. Tech damn sure isn’t going to change just to field the next “Bama” or will they. I think not. Pick your medicine…Wish to play with the semi-pro Bama’s, Texas, LSU and take the “beatings” or stay put.
I don't care about pollution, I'm anairconditioned gypsy
May 24th, 2012
6:14 pm
Here is the reality like it or not. There will be only four major football conferences with the winner of each playing in a semi-final and the two winners meeting for the Championship. And as you can see the four conferences are the Pac 12, Big 10, Big 12, and the SEC. It is musical chairs and when the music stops any school that are not in one of these four is up the creek without a paddle. It may not happen this year but if you can’t see this coming you are not paying attention, GT, FSU, Clemson, etc…better get crackin because the train is fixing to leave the station.
GT's answer
May 24th, 2012
7:00 pm
Tech is powerful enough in brand awareness to form a new league with Wofford, along with GT, Citadel and Elon College and Furman and Davidson in the Dwarves East Conference. Over in the western part of this new conference, we can add in Christian Brothers College of Memphis AND Millsaps College AND Belmont College, both in Jackson, Ms. Additionally Samford in Birmingham can be brought in for the balance.
The conference winner can play in Mobile, Alabama vs say Wellsley College from up East or Dartmouth.
GT HAS NO BRAND AWARENSS out side of Mumbai, India or Egypt or Yemen. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHA, AAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHA
GT's answer SERIOUSLY
May 24th, 2012
7:08 pm
GT WOULD DO ok in the SEC but would never win big. They would compete for regular bowl trips to the Liberty or the Weedeater or the Music City Bowl and they would share some decent big boy $$ bowl revenue.
YES, they ( Yellow Jackets ) could attact FAR SUPERIOR athletes too. KEY is r-e-c-r-u-i-t-i-n-g for SEC vs ACC. GT would elevate the recruiting in one season ………….period, WITHOUT compromising their academics. UGA does it and Florida and Vandy and so could GT.
GT would win sometimes in a big upset vs a UT or UGA or maybe Auburn, MIssouir or Texas A&M, or Florida but their turnstiles would be VERY busy and the money would flow in. They would covet an 8-4 year or 7-5 like MSU or Ole Miss or Akry, Missouri generally achieves. KY and GT would be on par and above Vandy.
SEC WOULD BE GOOD FOR GT and the SEC.
UGA man here,
UGA 71 & 73
DawgNole
May 24th, 2012
8:49 pm
Delbert D.
May 23rd, 2012
5:45 pm
I want to see better football.
__________________
I would hope most fans do. That alone should “encourage” teams to play stronger schedules. Regrettably, the powers that be don’t care what most fans want in terms of opponents.
DawgNole
May 24th, 2012
9:07 pm
will
May 23rd, 2012
10:52 pm
FSU would be lucky to have a 6-5 record in the Big 12 or SEC
____________________
Actually, it would be impossible for them to finish 6-5 in any conference since they play 12 reg-season games–and have for years.
DawgNole
May 24th, 2012
9:09 pm
Sourgrapes
May 23rd, 2012
11:37 pm
I’d feel a lot worse about Clemson and FSU threatening to leave if they were a force to be reckoned with. It’s not like we can’t find another school to go lose to WVU by 40+ points.
___________________
I don’t believe FSU lost to WVU by 40 points.
DawgNole
May 24th, 2012
9:24 pm
Dawg Doo
May 24th, 2012
9:40 am
@ DawgNole – in what way are those posts contradictory?? In the scenario where conference champions get automotic playoff bids, there is no incentive to scheduling a tough ooc schedule. In fact, this scenario creates a disincentive. You can play community colleges for ooc games, just win your conference title and you’re in. In the scenario where the best teams (however determined) get into the playoffs, regardless of who won the respective conferences, there is an incentive to schedule tougher competition. If two teams are 11-1 and vying for a playoff berth, the school that played the tougher schedule will have a stronger argument for inclusion. That’s why I oppose reserving playoff spots for conference champions.
______________________
Maybe I misunderstood. It appeared you were advocating soft scheduling in your first post and condemning it in your second. Perhaps you were “speaking” rhetorically in that first post. Glad to hear you’re actually in favor of tougher scheduling. Anything that encourages D-1 schools to schedule cupcakes is bad for college football.
DawgNole
May 24th, 2012
9:28 pm
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
4:33 pm
Well, I tried to say more, but it won’t go through. I’ll just leave it at that
_______________________
Don’t you just love it when that happens and then all of a sudden, ALL your posts appear at once. AJC’s IT department is sorely lacking in terms of developing dependable filters.
DawgNole
May 24th, 2012
9:33 pm
Looks like I put everyone to sleep on this blog. Guess I’ll see if anyone’s awake over on the Hawks blog.
Bluffton, South Carolina
May 24th, 2012
9:36 pm
The Big 12 is no better than the ACC,
it’s a state of mind.
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
9:59 pm
@ DawgNole……I am the REAL Supersize, and yes, I agree about the AJC IT dept. They still haven’t successfully gotten rid of my imposter.
BTW, If anybody sees GT66 on here tonight, please ask him to email me. I emailed him 3 weeks ago, and I still haven’t heard from him. Thanks
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
10:00 pm
@ DawgNole…..yeah, I agree with what you said.
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
10:01 pm
@ DawgNole……once again, I tried to say more, but it didn’t go through. I still have an imposter whom they haven’t figured out how to get rid of yet.
Civil Unrest
May 24th, 2012
10:06 pm
The acc is good for woman’s field hockey
81 Alumnus
May 24th, 2012
10:12 pm
Mark, get your facts straight. South Carolina left the ACC in 1971 because our then football coach, Paul Dietzel blamed the ACC’s 800 rule as the reason he couldn’t out recruit UGa and other SEC schools.
We left the league as ACC basketball tournament champions, not as a team that couldn’t win it. And Frank McGuire spent the rest of his career at USC trying to get us back in.
Banker Bob
May 25th, 2012
12:44 am
In the history of the BCS, West Virginia has 3 BCS wins (over Georgia, Georgia Tech, and Clemson). The entire ACC has 1 BCS win. Ever. The ACC had a chance to snare West Virginia, and strengthen their football conference. Instead, they chose a team that has a big city but no following, Pitt and Syracuse, a school with a following, but is just as week as ACC football.
The ACC has committed themselves to basketball. And that is fine, but the conference demise in football is inevitable. And they are getting what they deserve, because if they hadn’t raided the Big East over and over, and embraced them as a partner when they were strong, they could have run the east coast. Instead, they are on the brink of irrelevance.
Losersville U.S.A.
May 25th, 2012
1:53 am
ACC should go after Kentucky and Tennessee…
The league is going NOWHERE, has and will be jere for a LONG time.
Even Vandy would be interesting. Kansas in ACC… Wild, fans in KC would go NUTS then !!!!
Go DUKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Losersville U.S.A.
May 25th, 2012
1:55 am
Oh…. Forgot, The sec needs to go, Awful confrence and WAY overrated !!! Go Away sec PLEASE !!!!
Wayne L
May 25th, 2012
7:44 am
FSU concerned about academics they would go from last in the ACC to last in the Big 12, simply belonging to a league with high academic standards does not translate to high academics for for them.
JoeFan
May 25th, 2012
7:58 am
There will be multiple lawsuits unless the 64 or 72 teams that compose the super conferences leave the NCAA and that means in every sport. They can’t be members for some sports and not others. So there goes March Madness and any pretense at regulating college sports. Most likely the BCS competition meetings will rpoduce a tournament format with loopholes where at least it doesn’t appear anyone is excluded from competing for a slot in the tournament. .
Old School Gold
May 25th, 2012
8:13 am
Notre Dame is and will continue to be irrelevant. Don’t even waste time looking at that scenario.
Vince E
May 25th, 2012
8:41 am
Mark, yes I understand why the ACC would not want to align itself with Cincinnati. After the beating North Carolina State took at the hands of Cincinnati last year of the score 44-14, I would think the ACC wants to align itself with a league in which it can win. Cincinnati pasted NC State and will win most games against ACC opponents. Cincinnati also beat both new schools last year in Syracuse and Pitt. Bring it on ACC. That’s ditto for basketball too. Tobacci road, what’s that???
Sourgrapes
May 25th, 2012
8:45 am
@DawgNole – I know FSU didn’t lose to WVU. Poor writing AND editing on my part.
But if I say “They haven’t lost to WVU by 40 points YET” does it help? :^)
Sourgrapes
May 25th, 2012
8:50 am
Vince, we’re sorry that someone accidentally insulted Cincinnati. I hope your favorite school is doing well, and continues to do well in the fight against the ACC, Dr. Evil, fireants and Cancer.
Andrew French
May 25th, 2012
8:52 am
Geez – Please put that glass of scotch and that bong down and snap back to reality! Basketball conferences can no longer survive in a football-oriented country now.
Talk with old coach really got Dwyane Wade going – Mike Berardino – Sun-Sentinel
May 25th, 2012
9:15 am
[...] 3: Here’s an excellent breakdown by Atlanta columnist Mark Bradley on why the Atlantic Coast Conference isn’t necessarily on life support, as some would have you [...]
old dog
May 25th, 2012
4:43 pm
ACC football……kinda like hearing deaf peoples barber-shop quartet. Great roundball, but if its football you like, c’mon man! This ain’t a football conference. Kick, scream, yeall, fuss, but at the end of the day ACC and football doesn’t work………
Ray
May 25th, 2012
6:14 pm
ACC isn’t doom I’m not a fan, but as of right now ACC is better off than Big East to say the least.
SEC, Pac-12, Big Ten, and ACC are the four conferences that don’t have to worry about ish.
Big XII still needs to worry if little brother even slightly gets mad they’ll bolt. Yes I’m talking about Oklahoma.
DawgNole
May 25th, 2012
8:44 pm
back in the Freddy Vinson, Drew Barry day…
May 24th, 2012
1:04 pm
Are we really trying to produce “student-athletes,” or should we just quit all that foolishness and veneer and lip service to the notion that these kids are in COLLEGE to get a COLLEGE EDUCATION? (Yes, yes, even the Georgia kids…)
I think it’s past time that all of us adults take a giant step back and get our priorities straight. Now wonder the country is going to hell.
___________________
“NOW wonder the country is going to hell”? Are you sure your priorities are with EDUCATION?
DawgNole
May 25th, 2012
9:12 pm
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
10:00 pm
@ DawgNole…..yeah, I agree with what you said.
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
10:01 pm
@ DawgNole……once again, I tried to say more, but it didn’t go through. I still have an imposter whom they haven’t figured out how to get rid of yet.
______________________
Good hearing from you, Super. You may recall that we corresponded last year. Went from unpleasant exchanges to a civil ones–right before Thanksgiving. Good timing on that. Hope you’re doing well.
Good luck getting rid of that imposter. For all the fun these AJC blogs can be, it’s a real shame that technical issues continue to plague them. Disappointing that a paper this size doesn’t have more effective IT support.
DawgNole
May 25th, 2012
9:23 pm
Sourgrapes
May 25th, 2012
8:45 am
@DawgNole – I know FSU didn’t lose to WVU. Poor writing AND editing on my part.
But if I say “They haven’t lost to WVU by 40 points YET” does it help? :^)
____________________
Yes, that helps. And as a Noles fan, I hope you’ll be able to say that for years to come. FSU’s actually had pretty good fortune with WVA over the years, although they haven’t played much. The Noles lead the series 3-0, with all games in the Gator Bowl. You’ll recall that WVA’s where Bowden coached before he came to Tallahassee.
DawgNole
May 25th, 2012
9:29 pm
Aw shoot, here I am blabbin’ to an empty house again. Can’t believe nobody gives a crap about my insightful commentary. The blog monster even ate my last post. Last try here.
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May 26th, 2012
6:03 am
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Vince E
May 26th, 2012
8:05 am
I honestly feel the Big East is far superior in football to the ACC. Even with new members, I think the Big East is better. When the Big East signs it’s new TV deal in the fall with Fox or NBC. the BIg East will be rolling in the money, calling it’s own shots and improving all of it’s programs. The new markets include Houston, Texas, Orlando, Florida, Memphis, Tennessee and a stronger presence in Philadelphia. The ACC simply doesn’t deserve to play any of the big boys for any reason. What’s tabacci road anyway? Let Louisville go if they wish. They miss the big TV contract, increase travel for all athletics and begin a downward trend in football including no bowl games for years, second rate finishes against Texas, Oklahoma, OSU, Kansas and Texas Tech. Bearcats forever, ACC crap, NEVER !!!!.
djack0062
May 26th, 2012
2:14 pm
“Harvester Welle” THANK YOU for keeping it real!!
Vince E
May 27th, 2012
7:46 am
BankerBob- your making many good points. I too think the ACC has made a huge move with Pitt/Cuse for Bball, not football. Secondly, once the Big East signs it’s new TV in the fall with NBC, Fox or ESPN, then look for the movement from the Big East to slow. Why would a school move from the Big East to ACC for less TV money? The Big East will command more and will get more. It will change the entire landscape. Cincinnati and Louisville are holding tight to find out what the Big East deal will be. The league will have a new league president soon or within 2 months as a national search is underway. Once this occurs and the person is hired, the new TV deal will be solidified and cancel out the appeal of the ACC and the Big 12 for Big East teams. I think the Big East got the better part of the deal. We gained teams in huge markets that are ready to break into the national scene such as UCF and Houston. Look what SMU did to Pitt last year. 25-0 in the Birmingham Bowl. The overall Big East football league will be better than the ACC with more TV money per school. Secondly, consider disenchanted schools such as Clemson, FSU and others wanting to leave the ACC.
Keith
May 28th, 2012
2:23 pm
Notre Dame and Rutgers are the only decent adds. If it ever happened. The NYC television market will finally push Rutgers into the ACC or Big Ten.