Is the ACC doomed? Hardly, and here are the reasons why
OK, so it isn't football, but it's still an off-tackle dive play. (AJC photo by Johnny Crawford)
Let’s be clear: The ACC has work to do. But that’s not nearly the same as being doomed, which is how some have characterized the conference after the double hit of Florida State’s (apparently overstated) flirtation with the Big 12 and the announcement of the SEC/Big 12 New Year’s Day bowl. As a public service, we attempt to distinguish flaming hyperbole from colder reality.
The ACC needs to tie itself to a big new bowl. This part is true. Indeed, this is essential. The chance of the champions from the SEC and the Big 12 being omitted from the presumptive four-team BCS playoff is small; the chance of an ACC titlist not making the final cut is rather larger. (No ACC team has played for the BCS title since Florida State in 2000, which was so long ago that Mark Richt was the Seminoles’ offensive coordinator.)
To be considered viable, the ACC cannot have its champ landing in, say, the Champs Sports Bowl. Nobody knows how the postseason matrix will look two years down the road — will existing bowls become part of the BCS tournament? — but the ACC can’t wait. It must find itself a worthy partner. That partner need not be the Big East, the least of the Big Six football leagues. Better for the ACC to forge an alliance with the runner-up from the Big Ten or the Pac-12 or even the SEC than to be doomed to a decade of playing Cincinnati. (Pie-in-the-sky scenario: The ACC aligns itself, bowl-wise, with Notre Dame.)
Florida State is already gone. Not true. Not even close. This whole kerfuffle resulted from Andy Haggard telling Warchant.com that the Board of Trustees “would be in favor of seeing what the Big 12 has to offer.” But ESPN obtained a memo written by FSU president Eric Barron that outlined the pros and cons of such a move, and the cons outnumbered the pros 7-4. Not least: “The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker.”
The Big 12 needs Florida State more than FSU needs the Big 12. Even after adding West Virginia and TCU, the Big 12 is up to only 10 members. Any school considering Big 12 relocation must grasp that the Big 12 exists to prop up Texas. From Barron’s memo: “Colorado, Missouri, Nebraska and Texas A&M left the Big 12 at least in part because the Big 12 is not an equal-share conference. Texas has considerably more resource avenues and gains a larger share (and I say this as a former dean of the University of Texas at Austin).”
Florida State joined the ACC in 1991 for two reasons: Better academics and a clearer path to the football national championship. All that has changed is that Florida State hasn’t lately held up its football end. Were the Seminoles still going 12-0 or 11-1, they’d be in the BCS title mix. Rightly or wrongly, the Seminoles are still seen as the ACC’s football factory. In the Big 12, they’d stand third behind Texas and Oklahoma. Would that be an upgrade?
ACC commissioner John Swofford should again don his poacher’s hat. As unseemly as this sounds, it’s a pragmatic truth. The league will expand to 14 teams when Syracuse and Pittsburgh arrive, and it needs to grow more — and only in part because of football.
Swofford’s theft of Syracuse and Pittsburgh from the Big East changed the balance of basketball power. The ACC reclaimed first place in that derby, and for as much money as football generates we cannot forget that basketball is itself an attractive commodity. Simple math: The football season lasts roughly four months; the basketball season runs from mid-November to early April, which is closer to five months. And basketball teams play 30-some games, as opposed to 12 or 13, making for many more programming opportunities.
Swofford should go hard at UConn and Louisville, schools that graced the past two Final Fours and play competitive football. (Kansas would be a target if it hadn’t pledged to forfeit Big 12 TV money if it leaves.) Those two would stretch the ACC map and would make this the basketball league to end all basketball leagues. Marketing slogan: “You might not want to coach here, but you’ll darn sure watch our games!”
Such a course might seem counter-intuitive, but better for the ACC to play to its strength than a perceived weakness. Realistically, what available schools would burnish the ACC’s football image? (Notre Dame, maybe?) That doesn’t mean the league can’t survive: Not if its champ is given a chance to play for the BCS title when a chance is warranted; not if its champ is assured a profitable bowl home if it doesn’t make the four-team playoff, and not if good football is paired with great basketball.
One thing more: This isn’t the first time we’ve wondered if the ACC is bound for oblivion. But a check of history shows that the conference hasn’t lost a member since 1971, when Frank McGuire tired of his South Carolina Gamecocks getting beat in the ACC tournament. This league isn’t as bold and brassy as the SEC, but in its understated way it hangs tough. It’s not going away just yet.
By Mark Bradley
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401 comments Add your comment
DawgNole
May 23rd, 2012
10:23 pm
Delbert D.
May 23rd, 2012
5:22 pm
“Play cupcakes at home, rest your starters in the second half and keep the money from additional home games.”
The fans are complaining even in the SEC about not playing better OOC opponents. Here is the list of SEC OOC opponents for 2012 and my difficulty ranking (I’ve done this for the top 5 conferences.)
_____________________
I’m with you on this one–except I wouldn’t say “EVEN in the SEC . . . .” Hell, the SEC is among the worst offenders in terms of scheduling cupcakes.
Paul in NH
May 23rd, 2012
10:25 pm
UGA and UF are much better schools than FSU and Clemson and would be good academic fits in the ACC
DawgNole
May 23rd, 2012
10:25 pm
Dawg Doo
May 23rd, 2012
5:16 pm
If conference champs automatically get an invite to the playoffs, then why would teams strenghten their ooc schedule? I think they’d do the opposite. Why risk injury against a quality opponent in a game that has no immpact on the conference standings? Play cupcakes at home, rest your starters in the second half and keep the money from additional home games.
Dawg Doo
May 23rd, 2012
5:51 pm
That’s part of why I oppose automatic playoff spots for any conference champ. Earn your way into the playoffs. Prove that your record means something by beating quality opponents. Reward teams that play tough schedules, and punish teams that don’t.
______________________
Am I missing something here–or are these two completely contradictory posts?
Tech Engineer
May 23rd, 2012
10:43 pm
I certainly do not want TTech joining the knucklehead league as Frank howard called the SEC. The ACC needs to pick up Vanderbilt to replace FSU. Afterall, colleges are academic institutions. The ACC should target academic credentials first.
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Wahoo23
May 23rd, 2012
10:51 pm
Tech…I agree with you. Vandy should be added. The question is not whether UGA and UF are better fits academically for the ACC than FSU and Clemson. The question is who should be invited to join the ACC. On the flip side, if the SEC invited UNC and UVA to join the SEC, both schools would turn down the invitations due to academic reasons. The Presidents, faculty and alumni at UNC and UVA would not want o be associate with lesser institutions such as UGA, Alabama, Ole Miss, etc. Except for Vandy, the SEC have a similar academic profile. This is why Vandy needs to join the ACC.
will
May 23rd, 2012
10:52 pm
FSU would be lucky to have a 6-5 record in the Big 12 or SEC
sting_em
May 23rd, 2012
11:00 pm
Wahoo23 – Being a Tech guy, it pains me to say that UGA is actually a pretty good school to attend. UF is up there in the AAU with Vandy. The reasons why student attendance is down at UGA is because the students are smarter and might care more about their education rather than seeing a football game. Just my two cents.
Wahoo23
May 23rd, 2012
11:12 pm
Sting em…UGA has improved due to the Hope. But the Hope is broke. UGA has actually lost positions in the US News rankings over the past couple of years. I am sure it is a solid school, just not ranked in the top 50 academically. It is the #2 party school in the country according to the Princeton Review. UGAs endowment is paltry when compared against Tech and the other top ACC schools. My only point was that Vandy should be added to the ACC since it is a better fit academically and in basketball.
Rick James
May 23rd, 2012
11:15 pm
@Tech Engineer
I certainly do not want TTech joining the knucklehead league as Frank howard called the SEC. The ACC needs to pick up Vanderbilt to replace FSU. Afterall, colleges are academic institutions. The ACC should target academic credentials first.
———————————————————————-
Why would Vanderbilt give up SEC revenue sharing to join the ACC? Schools changing conferences are looking to step up and not back.Vandy does not the the ACC to boost is academic standing.The only schools the ACC can attract will be from The Big East or Conference USA. It’s the best when it come to basketball but marginal when it comes to football.Vandy wont come for the reasons FSU wants to leave.
sports
May 23rd, 2012
11:21 pm
The ACC is second rate conference and everybody know it. The powers that be, control the cnference for basketball, this is the reason Clemson and FSU will get out, and should. This conference should be in Division 2…the Southern conference would be a good fit for most of the schools.
Rick James
May 23rd, 2012
11:22 pm
@Wahoo23
Tech…I agree with you. Vandy should be added. The question is not whether UGA and UF are better fits academically for the ACC than FSU and Clemson. The question is who should be invited to join the ACC. On the flip side, if the SEC invited UNC and UVA to join the SEC, both schools would turn down the invitations due to academic reasons. The Presidents, faculty and alumni at UNC and UVA would not want o be associate with lesser institutions such as UGA, Alabama, Ole Miss, etc. Except for Vandy, the SEC have a similar academic profile. This is why Vandy needs to join the ACC.
————————————————————————————————————————————–
Dont worry Wahoo..UNC nor UVA will never have to even think about the SEC academics or not.The only two schools of interest would be NC State and Va Tech.
Supersize that order, mutt
May 23rd, 2012
11:24 pm
Rick James, NC State will never leave the cozy confines of North Carolina. And the Virginia legislature will prevent VT going anywhere unless UVA goes too. That sounds stupid, but that’s the way it is in Virginia.
Rick James
May 23rd, 2012
11:30 pm
@Supersize that order, mutt
Rick James, NC State will never leave the cozy confines of North Carolina. And the Virginia legislature will prevent VT going anywhere unless UVA goes too. That sounds stupid, but that’s the way it is in Virginia
———————————————————————————————————————————-
You’re so eager to start with calling other’s opinions stupid that you didnt read my post.I said the only two teams the SEC “would consider” are the two that I mentioned.I said nothing about State and UVA considering anything..But money changes everything.
Supersize that order, mutt
May 23rd, 2012
11:36 pm
@ Rick…..I know that’s what you said. I was just offering some information that I thought you might find interesting about the state of things in both states. Even if the SEC moved to the point (and beyond) of just “considering” those schools, it wouldn’t happen. Money MIGHT talk to NC State, but based on the past history of UVA and VT, I don’t think that money would do any good in Virginia, unless UVA were part of the deal.
Sourgrapes
May 23rd, 2012
11:37 pm
I’d feel a lot worse about Clemson and FSU threatening to leave if they were a force to be reckoned with. It’s not like we can’t find another school to go lose to WVU by 40+ points.
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J
May 24th, 2012
2:01 am
It’s all been worked out between the SEC and Big 12.
SEC is going to take VA and VA Tech.
Big 12 is going to take Florida State, Clemson, GA Tech, Louisville (creating additional natural rivals between conferences), Pittsburgh, and Cincinnati.
And the ACC is doomed after that.
In a year or two
Notre Dame will then give up independence and join the Big 10. The Big 10 will invite Rutgers and two of the remaining ACC schools (Boston College, Maryland, NC State, Wake, UNC, Duke, Syracuse).
The Pac12 will add BYU, Boise, Houston, and SMU
64 teams will be included with the best chance to take one of the 4 National Championship spots. The rules will be written similar to the current BCS rules to make it so that they are technically not completely exclusionary, but practically speaking they are. Something indicating that if one of the major conferences doesn’t have at least 2 teams in the top 25 formula rankings then that team can be replaced by a non-participant school if that school ranks in the top 5 of the formula rankings….blah..blah…blah
Your arrogance has cost you a seat at the table.
supersize that dawgmeat
May 24th, 2012
2:45 am
If it wasnt for me no one would make sense of this blog…jus sayin
mwh6767
May 24th, 2012
3:10 am
The only way I see the acc surviving is to somehow cut a deal with Notre Dame. Let nd come in but keep their tv deal with nbc for their home games. They take less money for the espn tv deal and more money is distributed to the other acc schools, making to money gap between the acc and big 12 smaller. This shuts fsu up. Espn wont balk at this because they now get a piece of nd on a regular basis, thats to big a carrot. This allows acc to renegotiate the tv deal even further closing the money gap between conferences.
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Admiral Obvious
May 24th, 2012
7:07 am
A conference that has Paul Johnson as one of it’s better coaches is definitely in trouble
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sportsbiz
May 24th, 2012
8:17 am
Looking at available options, Swofford should go hard at Notre Dame, who may suddenly be a lot more responsive in reaction to the playoff and the Little Rose Bowl (excuse me – the Champions Bowl SEC/Big12 game) and Louisville. Those two have the best overall athletic programs out there if you look at not only football and basketball but Olympic sports. Those two dominate the Big East in almost every sport. Both football programs are on the rise and Louisville’s facilities are probably the best in the country. Its academics are rapidly improving as well, but don’t kid yourself – there is no academic component to this round of realignment. This time, it’s all about TV money and football status – something that neither Rutgers nor UConn can bring.
IL Jacket
May 24th, 2012
8:18 am
J, when pigs fly. Get yourself some rest man!
IL Jacket
May 24th, 2012
8:27 am
Let’s see, last season’s hypothetical Big 12/SEC bowl game would have had Okie St. v. Arky/UGA(?). Yep, that would be must see TV.
Score Check
May 24th, 2012
8:45 am
Coach Sick Satan = SCUM
Coach Sick Satan = SCUM
Coach Sick Satan = SCUM
Tweak your knee and he leaves you twisting in the wind
sick of it all
May 24th, 2012
8:52 am
If all colleges were private, I would have a lot less of a problem with their athletic programs being driven by TV money for football. As it is, I don’t think college football adheres to any educational mission these days, and therefore is not providing a public good, unless you consider sports entertainment to be something the government should provide its citizens. Are you not entertained?!
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George
May 24th, 2012
9:18 am
“…the conference hasn’t lost a member since 1971, when Frank McGuire tired of his South Carolina Gamecocks getting beat in the ACC tournament.”
Irresponsible and not accurate. First of all, we won the ACC Tournament in 1971. Our withdrawal from the ACC had nothing to do with winning, at least not as far as South Carolina was concerned. It had everything to do with the continued control of the conference by tobacco road along with a disagreement over academic requirements. The perception from South Carolina is that tobacco road was trying to disrupt our underground railroad from up north because in fact we were winning.
Dawg Doo
May 24th, 2012
9:40 am
@ DawgNole – in what way are those posts contradictory?? In the scenario where conference champions get automotic playoff bids, there is no incentive to scheduling a tough ooc schedule. In fact, this scenario creates a disincentive. You can play community colleges for ooc games, just win your conference title and you’re in. In the scenario where the best teams (however determined) get into the playoffs, regardless of who won the respective conferences, there is an incentive to schedule tougher competition. If two teams are 11-1 and vying for a playoff berth, the school that played the tougher schedule will have a stronger argument for inclusion. That’s why I oppose reserving playoff spots for conference champions.
Lets Go
May 24th, 2012
9:52 am
70-33. That’s what killed them.
Promethius
May 24th, 2012
10:17 am
The ACC is gonna implode
It’s bound for the commode
The SEC is on to glory
And that’s the end of story
On this you can bet
For I read it on the internet
Skeezix
May 24th, 2012
10:44 am
This appears to be ‘much ado about nothing’.
Joe 12-Pack
May 24th, 2012
10:46 am
The only ACC Bowl alliance that would be of major interest would be against the SEC runner-up played in Atlanta. Notre Dame is a dinosaur going the way of Army, Navy & Harvard.
I could SO see FSU staying in the ACC. They had a chance to join the SEC in 1991 but took the easy/wimpy way out. The ‘Noles would happily stay in the ACC and beat their chests about how great it is to be conference champs.
FYI, football generates SO MUCH MORE money than basketball does. The ACC picking up basketball powers that stink in football does not do much good.
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May 24th, 2012
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Promethius
May 24th, 2012
11:11 am
Joe 12-Pack, have another and YOUR reality will become even more vivid to you.
Promethius
May 24th, 2012
11:15 am
WVU just did to Clemson in FB what UNC does to Clemson in BB every year in Chapel Hill. Will it ever, ever stop?
Tech longtime fan
May 24th, 2012
11:31 am
Why not 18 team conference, 4 major conferences (72 teams), you play eight games in division, leaves 4 other games, say 1 in other division, two Div. 2 and then annual rivalry game. ACC adds ND, Penn. State, Rutgers and UConn.. The ACC becomes winner in Football, Basketball and Academics.
Dawg Doo
May 24th, 2012
11:36 am
Adding ND, Penn State, Rutgers and UConn would make the ACC the winner in football? Maybe in the days of Rudy. You ACC folks really need to stick to hoops.
Freelemur
May 24th, 2012
12:22 pm
So the ACC should become the new big east? sounds promising.
back in the Freddy Vinson, Drew Barry day...
May 24th, 2012
1:04 pm
You know, we can talk all we want to about expansion, etc., but I’ll tell you one thing: I could care less about a Tech vs. Syracuse or a UNC vs. Pitt game. Bottom line, I don’t care. Frankly, I still don’t much care about ACC vs. Boston, and I’m not sure I ever will.
One not one person here has mentioned the toll on the kids. We’re all hyper about the conference this, and the conference that, and not one person has said, stop, this is crap. Why should a supposed ACC student (remember them? Students?) have to get back and forth to Boston, much less someplace even farther afield? Are we really trying to produce “student-athletes,” or should we just quit all that foolishness and veneer and lip service to the notion that these kids are in COLLEGE to get a COLLEGE EDUCATION? (Yes, yes, even the Georgia kids…)
I think it’s past time that all of us adults take a giant step back and get our priorities straight. Now wonder the country is going to hell.
RightAllTheTime
May 24th, 2012
1:37 pm
I’m rarely on here, but from what I see here scares me to death if the posters on this site do indeed represent general human cogitation. I have never in my life seen such idiotic and preposterous balderdash, flap-trapping, jaw-jacking, flap-doodling, venom spewing, irrational thinking, despotism, and in general, unadulterated garbage in my life. And I never cease to be amazed how it is often laid out in such organized fashion, while using impeccable, however glib language. If these same people are old enough to vote, or even worse, bare children – God help us.
Stop Online Despotism
May 24th, 2012
1:54 pm
Blog-related “despotism”? Wow. That sounds very serious indeed.
RightAllTheTime
May 24th, 2012
1:58 pm
Stop online…..Thanks for reading closely, I meant “dogmatism”. I ain’t purfick, but I ain’t dogmatic (nor a despot).
GTBob
May 24th, 2012
2:03 pm
Adding ND, Penn State, Rutgers and UConn would make the ACC the winner in football?
The ACC doesn’t really care about being the winner in football. They want to be the winner in basketball and just remain somewhat competitive in football. Personally, as someone who loves ACC basketball, I wouldn’t mind seeing it become an even more dominant basketball league.
INTJ
May 24th, 2012
2:15 pm
Kansas? Would they play in the “Atlantic” or the “Coastal” division?
Seriously, though, the truth is that football in the ACC is merely to distract fans from the fact that basketball season hasn’t started. All this football jockeying has diluted the quality and competition of its basketball and with it, the ACC brand; only UNC and Duke remain at a consistently high level in both quality and passion.
In its heydey, the conference stretched just 412 miles from College Park to Columbia over just 4 states, with half the league, North Carolina’s “Big Four,” within a mere 92 miles of each other. Now it will sprawl over 1,217 miles from Syracuse to Miami, and the sheer number of teams prevents the home-and-home series that made the conference such a gauntlet, even among the “Big Four.” That is no way to develop or foster rivalries, and it isn’t clear how it will ever make ACC fans think football-first, the way other conferences do.
Syracuse and Pittsburgh can certainly help with the quality of play in both major sports, but it if the conference expands again, it can’t go for football schools in far-flung places that happen to play basketball, or even midwestern basketball schools that happen to have a decent football program. It has to focus on what made it great in the first place, or it really will fail.
David H.
May 24th, 2012
2:36 pm
Add UConn and Rutgers (to own the NY market) and divide into four divisions (featuring two divisions in the NY market):
North:
BC
UConn
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Mid-Atlantic:
Rutgers
Maryland
Virginia
Va Tech
Carolina:
Duke
Wake
UNC
NC State
South:
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami
Each team plays the other three teams in its division, then two rotating games from each of the other three division = 9 league games. Then, the top two division champs play in the championship game.
There are two reason for doing four divisions instead of two:
1. Virginia Tech does not want to be stuck in a northern division for recruiting reasons. In a traditional north-south split, they would have 7 games against teams north of them and only two rotating games against teams south of them. With 4 divisions, the have 5 games with schools north of them and 4 games with teams south of them.
2. Choosing two of the four division champs for the title game creates a better opportunity for a more compelling game between highly ranked teams. If the SEC had a similar setup this past season, LSU and Alabama would have played for the SEC title, not LSU and Georgia.
For basketball, each team would get a home and away with each team in its division (2 games x 3 teams = 6 games) and one game against the other league members (12 teams = 12 games) for a total of 18 league games.
Great rivalries, great divisions, great potential. This is the best option for the ACC.
old dog
May 24th, 2012
3:03 pm
Winning the ACC in football is like being the tallest pigmy………………………….Tech needs to go to the SEC, and re-invigor the rivalry!
Supersize that order, mutt
May 24th, 2012
3:26 pm
@ David H……that makes too much sense. It will never fly. LOL