Is the ACC doomed? Hardly, and here are the reasons why
OK, so it isn't football, but it's still an off-tackle dive play. (AJC photo by Johnny Crawford)
Let’s be clear: The ACC has work to do. But that’s not nearly the same as being doomed, which is how some have characterized the conference after the double hit of Florida State’s (apparently overstated) flirtation with the Big 12 and the announcement of the SEC/Big 12 New Year’s Day bowl. As a public service, we attempt to distinguish flaming hyperbole from colder reality.
The ACC needs to tie itself to a big new bowl. This part is true. Indeed, this is essential. The chance of the champions from the SEC and the Big 12 being omitted from the presumptive four-team BCS playoff is small; the chance of an ACC titlist not making the final cut is rather larger. (No ACC team has played for the BCS title since Florida State in 2000, which was so long ago that Mark Richt was the Seminoles’ offensive coordinator.)
To be considered viable, the ACC cannot have its champ landing in, say, the Champs Sports Bowl. Nobody knows how the postseason matrix will look two years down the road — will existing bowls become part of the BCS tournament? — but the ACC can’t wait. It must find itself a worthy partner. That partner need not be the Big East, the least of the Big Six football leagues. Better for the ACC to forge an alliance with the runner-up from the Big Ten or the Pac-12 or even the SEC than to be doomed to a decade of playing Cincinnati. (Pie-in-the-sky scenario: The ACC aligns itself, bowl-wise, with Notre Dame.)
Florida State is already gone. Not true. Not even close. This whole kerfuffle resulted from Andy Haggard telling Warchant.com that the Board of Trustees “would be in favor of seeing what the Big 12 has to offer.” But ESPN obtained a memo written by FSU president Eric Barron that outlined the pros and cons of such a move, and the cons outnumbered the pros 7-4. Not least: “The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker.”
The Big 12 needs Florida State more than FSU needs the Big 12. Even after adding West Virginia and TCU, the Big 12 is up to only 10 members. Any school considering Big 12 relocation must grasp that the Big 12 exists to prop up Texas. From Barron’s memo: “Colorado, Missouri, Nebraska and Texas A&M left the Big 12 at least in part because the Big 12 is not an equal-share conference. Texas has considerably more resource avenues and gains a larger share (and I say this as a former dean of the University of Texas at Austin).”
Florida State joined the ACC in 1991 for two reasons: Better academics and a clearer path to the football national championship. All that has changed is that Florida State hasn’t lately held up its football end. Were the Seminoles still going 12-0 or 11-1, they’d be in the BCS title mix. Rightly or wrongly, the Seminoles are still seen as the ACC’s football factory. In the Big 12, they’d stand third behind Texas and Oklahoma. Would that be an upgrade?
ACC commissioner John Swofford should again don his poacher’s hat. As unseemly as this sounds, it’s a pragmatic truth. The league will expand to 14 teams when Syracuse and Pittsburgh arrive, and it needs to grow more — and only in part because of football.
Swofford’s theft of Syracuse and Pittsburgh from the Big East changed the balance of basketball power. The ACC reclaimed first place in that derby, and for as much money as football generates we cannot forget that basketball is itself an attractive commodity. Simple math: The football season lasts roughly four months; the basketball season runs from mid-November to early April, which is closer to five months. And basketball teams play 30-some games, as opposed to 12 or 13, making for many more programming opportunities.
Swofford should go hard at UConn and Louisville, schools that graced the past two Final Fours and play competitive football. (Kansas would be a target if it hadn’t pledged to forfeit Big 12 TV money if it leaves.) Those two would stretch the ACC map and would make this the basketball league to end all basketball leagues. Marketing slogan: “You might not want to coach here, but you’ll darn sure watch our games!”
Such a course might seem counter-intuitive, but better for the ACC to play to its strength than a perceived weakness. Realistically, what available schools would burnish the ACC’s football image? (Notre Dame, maybe?) That doesn’t mean the league can’t survive: Not if its champ is given a chance to play for the BCS title when a chance is warranted; not if its champ is assured a profitable bowl home if it doesn’t make the four-team playoff, and not if good football is paired with great basketball.
One thing more: This isn’t the first time we’ve wondered if the ACC is bound for oblivion. But a check of history shows that the conference hasn’t lost a member since 1971, when Frank McGuire tired of his South Carolina Gamecocks getting beat in the ACC tournament. This league isn’t as bold and brassy as the SEC, but in its understated way it hangs tough. It’s not going away just yet.
By Mark Bradley
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
401 comments Add your comment
Mike
May 23rd, 2012
12:26 pm
A&M, Missouri, Nebraska, and Colorado may have left because of Texas, but adding ACC schools changes the leverage. FSU and Miami bring national name brands, TV markets, and the state of Florida recruiting. Ga Tech brings the ATL TV market. Va Tech brings DC. Clemson is another solid opponent. Texas would lose all leverage it currently has and would be wise to swallow its pride.
nd and penn state would
May 23rd, 2012
12:27 pm
fit right in with the acc just fine.
DooleyDoo
May 23rd, 2012
12:28 pm
Mike, listen up. No teams fleeing ACC.
Mike
May 23rd, 2012
12:29 pm
As for why FSU and other ACC schools would go to the Big 12? The Big 12 name is far better and would command much more money…especially with the TV contracts that could result if the southeast ACC schools joined.
Delbert D.
May 23rd, 2012
12:30 pm
Okay, I’m going to add one word so it isn’t a duplicate and try to post it again.
Mike
May 23rd, 2012
12:31 pm
Dooley, you dont know that. This is how it started with the Big 12. Fact is the ACC football members arent happy. There is a split in the conference between football and basketball…always has been. If the money and future looks good enough, they will jump…bank on it.
Delbert D.
May 23rd, 2012
12:34 pm
Maybe 1 paragraph at a time will work.
Mike
May 23rd, 2012
12:35 pm
The biggest obstacle will be Texas and how much the other Big 12 schools care about them vs the prospects of expanding the conference into new media markets with more national name brands. Independants arent doing so hot, and I dont think the PAC 12 offers anything better than the Big 12 expanding with ACC schools. Texas will almost have to agree to proper revenue sharing.
Delbert D.
May 23rd, 2012
12:36 pm
First point. The ACC won’t take Louisville for the same reason the SEC did not take WVU. A low academic ranking. Louisville would be a terrible choice. Currently, NC State is the lowest ranked school in the ACC, and it isn’t bad at 102 (US News and World Report). Kansas would be a nice addition; it is a member of the AAU, and it’s basketball program would add to the ACC’s fine reputation. Rutgers should be considered. It’s an AAU member, and it is a decent recruiting area for football and basketball. New Jersey, New York City, Eastern Pennsylvania is a decent market for college sports on TV. Rutgers has been in the mix previously for Big Ten expansion, so a preemptive move by the ACC should be successful, “poaching” from the disintegration Big East.
Swofford is hated by Clemson for tacking on additional penalties after the NCAA slammed them several years ago. I would not be surprised if Clemson takes this opportunity of expansion to leave for the Big 12 or even the ACC.
I think that the Big Ten will act to expand again soon, making further overtures to Notre Dame. The playoffs have changed the picture greatly. The Big Ten has considered Rutgers previously, and it has considered Georgia Tech. If the Big Ten approaches Georgia Tech, that is a move that should be very strongly considered by Tech. A slate of Big Ten games with their national alumni base would fill Bobby Dodd Stadium like the ACC opponents will likely never do. Football wise, the Big Ten is a considerable upgrade over the ACC, even with FSU and Clemson.
Until the playoffs expand to 8 teams, the ACC has only a slight chance of putting it’s champion in the playoffs. The SEC, PAC-12, Big Ten and the Big 12 are stronger conferences. I don’t see any merit in any 4-team playoff that does not include conference champions only. To include non-champions is absurd; the elimination process begins with the regular season games and the conference championship games. Expand to 8, and then at-large teams can be considered.
The old traditions began crumbling when Notre Dame decided to participate in bowl games, the Big Ten began allowing its teams to play in bowls other than the Rose, and TV began showing more than 2 or 3 games on Saturdays. Furman Bisher wrote a column decrying the expansion to 18 bowl games. Yes, there are still folks who recall those old traditions of the ’60s. Keep changing as the sports landscape shifts, I say.
Mike
May 23rd, 2012
12:38 pm
At the end of the day, I dont think the ACC is doomed. They wont be in any worse spot than they already are, even losing many football members. I’ve heard suggestions that they should be on the phone with Notre Dame. Mark’s Louisville suggestion is excellent, assuming they would listen. Petrino got his Big East wish when they invited Temple and Memphis.
Bounty Hunter
May 23rd, 2012
12:39 pm
Just one 14-0 ACC season would
solve a lot of the current football issues.
follow the money
May 23rd, 2012
12:39 pm
sourgrapes,
basketball teams are cheaper to field, but I don’t believe they have a higher ROI in the power conferences. Even if the ROI is comparable, the amount of whole dollars generated in basketball is only a fraction of what football generates. If basketball were the cash cow, wouldn’t Kansas have had more leverage last year when it appeared the big12 was imploding?
DooleyDoo
May 23rd, 2012
12:39 pm
Mike, I maintain that there are more important things to college administrators and taxpayers than college football.
JoeFan
May 23rd, 2012
12:40 pm
There appears to be lots of rumors on teams leaving the ACC for the Big 12. I would guess with this much smoke that there has to be some substance there. It would not be surprising to learn later in the summer that FSU, and several other ACC schools including GT are leaving for the BIG 12 or Big 10.
Delbert D.
May 23rd, 2012
12:43 pm
Thanks. I guess that one had to be screened by a real person.
Gary
May 23rd, 2012
12:44 pm
Mark, glad to see you admit that the FSU move rumour was totally bogus but it looks like a lot of uninformed bloggers like Adam still dont get it. I know its a slow sports news week but is that any reason to keep this wild speculation going? The ACC is not collapsing. FSU and Clemson are not leaving and unless the Atlantic Coast Conference plans a name change, speculation about adding Notre Dame, Louisville, or Kansas is just plain stupid.
DooleyDoo
May 23rd, 2012
12:45 pm
Cu and FSU fans and certain university spokesmen are being ridiculed for their loose, misguided tongues and statements. For what it’s worth, BB and Baseball are important components in an athletic dept as well. Look at travel to B12 schools to play baseball.
nd and penn state would
May 23rd, 2012
12:45 pm
mark but i think your way off base. while bb and march madness is wonderful it is king football that drives the conference engine.
one look no further than the big least. they have been king of the basketball leagues the past couple of years. look where that has gotten them. their president just resigned due to stress. they have had 2 members leave recently.
when the acc raided and got pitt and syracuse the acc assured that it would be king of basketball again in the near future but the acc does have a football image cricis.
first off we need fsu and its fans to stop whining and either put up or shut up. these days fsu has a hard time beating wake forest let alone fb dominate schools like texas and oklahoma.
miami has not pulled its share of the weight either.
if the acc can get miami and fsu back on track in football and if the acc can get through the transition stage it is going through in basketball via all the coaching changes. the acc will be just fine.
Gator Mike
May 23rd, 2012
12:48 pm
Personally, I liked the SEC better when we had only 10 teams (before AR and SC), but time have changed. I am also not a fan of having A&M and Mizzou in the SEC. Nothing against them, but they are not even remotely in the SEC. FSU had their chance to get in the SEC, but they chose to join the ACC. So be it.
Adding VaTech to the SEC would be another joke. If you have never been to Blacksburg, do yourself a favor and do not go there. Additionally, I do not believe the D.C. market would be all that great with VT. D.C. has Maryland, Redskins, UVA and too many foreigners and politicians who are not into SEC football.
Let the ACC do their thing. I hope they survive because they have a lot of very good schools.
Enough expansion! It is nothing more than greed and stupidity.
Go SEC!
robodawg
May 23rd, 2012
12:59 pm
The ACC looks like it’s doing well. It doesn’t seem plagued by the ESPN-inspired paranoia that haunts the SEC offices. The SEC’s anxiety about losing preeminence led it to make some knee-jerk expansion decisions that it’s not quite clear are really going to help the conference.
Mike
May 23rd, 2012
1:01 pm
Dooley, no collegiate sport rakes in the money like football. TV contracts, booster money, conference payouts, ticket sales…far exceed any other sport. Money and stability of the institution is on the mind of the administrators. I cant argue CFB in general is small compared to other problems, but to these schools, its big business.
Harvester Welle
May 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm
Georgia Tech has the nation’s highest average SAT score for football players, and also the highest average high school GPA.
UGA, on the other hand, had one of the very lowest SAT averages, as well as a very low GPA average. As a result, three-fourths of UGA players are “special admits,” when means that they can not meet the minimum educational and intelligence requirements for admission to UGA, even as low as that is.
Yes, it would be great if Tech was more competitive with UGA, but Tech fans are proud of our heritage of having intelligent, responsible athletes who go on to rewarding careers and contribute to society.
Contrast this with the very unintelligent dummies that UGA recruits. The 50 arrests over the last four years is proof enough, not to mention winning the Fulmer Cup. Most of these goons are tossed out after their eligibility is over, and many end up on welfare.
UGA is clearly just a football f-a-c-t-o-r-y dedicated to winning at all costs, and most UGA fans are okay with this, with no concern about the embarrassment this brings to the State of Georgia.
Mark Richt is the architect of this situation. As long as he is paid a huge salary, he will continue to recruit the illiterate brain-dead t-h-u-g-s who he thinks will win. Unfortunately for UGA fans, he’s not remotely in the same league with the top coaches in the SEC.
So the bottom line is that Georgia Tech – win or lose – does so with honor and integrity, while the lowlife punks, woman beaters, drug users, and drunks in Athens continue to embarrass us all.
DooleyDoo
May 23rd, 2012
1:07 pm
If that’s true, why does UNC not jump to the SEC where they would make more money and improve recruiting?
Mike
May 23rd, 2012
1:08 pm
Delbert, I agree that the 4 team model will very likely squeeze out the ACC for some time. At its current pace, it will be quite a while before it fields a team that could crack the top 4. Its reputation has suffered tremendously. Why stay when the future looks fairly bleak? An 8 team model is far better because all 6 major conference champs plus 2 at larges would play. No politics. No conference preference. Settle it on the field. You win the ACC, your in. You dont, then be good enough for at large consideration. Each team’s championship destiny would literally be in its own hands.
Joe
May 23rd, 2012
1:11 pm
Guys, the ACC is not doomed, but immediate action is required.
We must take action to keep those that are in…including Pitt. To do that, football revenue needs to be spread based on a value formula, that includes market and record/rank to keep the “good” football programs in and still give the growing programs a chance.
And I believe that one of the Big 5 conferences will be eliminated. Right now, that would be the ACC if immediate action is not taken. Raiding the Big 12 and becoming the first mega conference is the best option.
The academic model will not work if we want to continue to compete in football.
Play to our strengths – add all quality basketball that is available. Keep our current teams and market and expand our footprint. Sell ACC channel to existing and new cable markets.
We cannot get existing SEC or Big 10 teams at this time. Weaken the Big 12, build on our strenghts. Once we are perceived as being strong, we can ask some teams that don’t bring value to leave and lure from Big 10 or SEC if necessary.
Mike
May 23rd, 2012
1:11 pm
The SEC would have to invite them first. The SEC was looking to expand its media footprint which is why Missouri became a candidate…St Louis TV market. I dont think UNC was ever a viable candidate in their eyes plus the internal ACC politics get in the way when talking North Carolina and Virginia schools.
Mike
May 23rd, 2012
1:13 pm
Then there is the matter of a 20 million dollar buyout. Word is the Big 12 has the buyout money from Missouri and A&M to help potential members with their own buyout clauses.
NvEERS
May 23rd, 2012
1:14 pm
First of all in Football the ACC isn’t the 5th best conference they are the 6th or 7th best conference. A few years back they had the two worst teams in all of D1-Duke and NCST. They only BCS bowl win they have had since FSU in 2000 was when VT best an undefeated Cincy team that had just had their coach leave them high and dry. If that wouldn’t have happened Cincy would have destroyed them. I can’t remember what the overall bowl record is right now but it is almost as bad.
Mike
May 23rd, 2012
1:18 pm
I agree with Joe, I dont think the ACC is doomed…even if they lose FSU, Clemson and others. They would pick up some other schools. Fact is, even with those members, I cant foresee the ACC cracking this 4 team playoff anytime soon. Thats the big pill to swallow. Big 12, SEC, Big 10 and PAC 12 will put a stranglehold on it. Like Dilbert said, an 8 team playoff would have been better where the ACC champ would be in regardless….no politics.
Supersize that order, mutt
May 23rd, 2012
1:19 pm
Naheh, you are really stupid…..and that’s being kind to you
doug dawg
May 23rd, 2012
1:23 pm
and just what, pray tell, is the gt market in atlanta? they can hardly fill two thirds of their little stadium, what with crime, poor competition. hot dogs and free cokes go only so far. atlanta is dawg country. no one around here even knows about gt football, much less cares. reality. doug dawg
Promethius
May 23rd, 2012
1:24 pm
Mike, the SEC would invite UNC in a NY minute if they thought UNC would accept. NC is the 10th largest state in the Union. Everyone knows UNC would top SEC’s wish list.
Promethius
May 23rd, 2012
1:29 pm
Same is true for NCState in my opinion. But as I said in the beginning, ain’t nobody fleeing the ACC. Especially the Big Four, UVa, Clemson, and GaTech.
Tech Fan Since 1950
May 23rd, 2012
1:30 pm
“…joining a league that is academically weaker.” It is about time more sports writers and commentators paid attention as to how the modern college campus operates, especially campuses that pay attention to the main calling card—-academics. Dictates from a strong president (administration) and the money folk alumni are one issue, but faculty governance is not something the modern day president can cast aside. All the ACC schools, including Florida State, have generally excellent academic reputations and they cannot afford to tarnish them. Football, including the factories, generally has its successes in spurts. Just ask Florida State about the successes of the 90’s vs the hard to beat Wake Forests of the 2000’s. While schools can afford off years in athletics, they cannot afford off years in academics and research prestige. Tail (sports) wagging ) the dog gets a lot of media attention, but you cannot forget about the main purpose of the dog.
Supersize that order, mutt
May 23rd, 2012
1:33 pm
doug dwag, if DRad would schedule some quality OOC teams, you would see what kind of following Tech has. Even the most faithful of us Tech fans don’t like having teams like SC State, W Carolina, etc on the schedule, and that affects season ticket sales. I don’t know why the Tech AD can’t (or won’t) see that.
Jacket99
May 23rd, 2012
1:40 pm
UGA, UF, and USCe should join the ACC to create the first Superconference. Better for basketball, better academically, better for traditional rivalries, and in the end, more money. Let the Alabama controlled SEC have it with Alabama, LSU, and the Big12 Rejects.
Jacket99
May 23rd, 2012
1:41 pm
atlanta is dawg country. no one around here even knows about gt football, much less cares. reality. doug dawg
—————–
Thanks for caring, doug dawg.
Sourgrapes
May 23rd, 2012
1:41 pm
Supersize, that’s been my complaint for a few years now. But it seems to be the way all teams go now, cupcakes to pump up the W/L record for the sake of the voters.
On the flip side, didn’t Ole Miss and Alabama “postpone” (or cancel, in english) their games with us till late 2010’s?
Jacket99
May 23rd, 2012
1:42 pm
The only losers if UGA, UF, and USCe join the ACC would be those fans who enjoy chanting SEC! SEC! more than anything else.
Gordon
May 23rd, 2012
1:45 pm
If GT ever leaves the ACC, it will be to the Big 10. There is NO WAY GT ever goes to the Big 12. If the dominoes start falling (doubtful for now) the following might happen:
Clemson, FSU to the Big 12. Possibly Miami to follow.
GT, MD, BC, ND to the Big 10.
VT, NCSt to the SEC.
The rest of the ACC/Big East form a basketball conference.
Supersize that order, mutt
May 23rd, 2012
1:46 pm
@ Sourgrapes, Ole Miss CANCELLED the game with Tech. Bama and Tech were said to have come to a “mutual agreement” to POSTPONE that one. It apparently HAS been rescheduled. Ole Miss did not reschedule.
Promethius
May 23rd, 2012
1:47 pm
UGa and SCAR would be smart to join the ACC. Those teams and schools seem to have the prevailing “it” at present. UGa vs FSU, Clemson, and UNC. It would be good. Same for SCAR and UNC (plus other matchups.)
Supersize that order, mutt
May 23rd, 2012
1:49 pm
Tech beats FSU 5 – 4 in ACC baseball tournament
Supersize that order, mutt
May 23rd, 2012
1:50 pm
@ Promethius……UGA would NEVER leave the SEC, even though they are pretty much irrelevant there lately.
Promethius
May 23rd, 2012
1:52 pm
Gordon, UNC, NCState, Duke, and Wake are blood brothers. Family members from same family went to all of these schools. There is great respect, even love, among alumni of these schools. Some grew up as fans of one school and went to another, without abandoning that affinity for their “first love”. NCState will not break this bond.
Buckeye
May 23rd, 2012
1:54 pm
At least we have the Big 10 and The Rose Bowl – The Grandaddy.
Not, as is the case with the SEC!SEC! – “who’s your daddy”.
The ACC is a basketball conference.
Promethius
May 23rd, 2012
1:58 pm
Supersize, I’ll defer to someone who has a real feel for UGa. Since I have that insider’s feel for the ACC over 60 yrs and being a student at both UNC and Duke. My son went to UNC and my daughter both UNC and State. I’ve always loved Wake. I know the close collaboration between these schools. Their joint research activities and shared courses bond these schools “like no others”.
Gordon
May 23rd, 2012
2:06 pm
Promethius,
Money does strange things to people. All that brotherhood stuff will disappear quickly in the fight for survival, if it came to that. I think the ACC surviving is still the most likely outcome at this point.
DawgFan
May 23rd, 2012
2:10 pm
Mark -
Nice use of the word “kerfuffle.” It’s a fantastic word that is not used nearly enough.
Promethius
May 23rd, 2012
2:18 pm
Gordon, with all due respect, IMO if everyone in the ACC sans the Big4 and UVa left, I believe the ACC would simply open up to other schools to supplant those who fled. I don’t think the ACC is chasing the football gods.