What do the Braves do with Minor? There aren’t many options
Mike Minor in a start at Colorado earlier this month. It wasn't good, either. (AP photo)
Fredi Gonzalez said Wednesday night that he thought Mike Minor threw very well — for three innings. Which he did. Minor carried a no-hitter into the fourth. He was gone five outs later, having yielded seven base runners in the span of 10 Miami batters. For the fourth consecutive start, Minor was charged with at least six earned runs. His ERA rose to 7.09.
It’s clear that Minor is becoming a bit of a mess. After Wednesday’s game he said he let down his teammates, the organization and the fans. He said he didn’t want the other Braves looking at him wondering if this start was going to be as bad as last week’s, didn’t want them thinking they’d have to score a lot of runs to win — which had happened both at Colorado and St. Louis — just because Minor is pitching.
Minor is hard on himself, and you can see why. Last month he worked 7 1/3 one-hit innings against Milwaukee, which can hit, and followed that with eight strong innings in Arizona. After three starts, his ERA was 3.10. The past four starts have been awful — 20 2/3 innings, 32 hits (plus 10 walks), 27 earned runs. He’s still striking out people (23 K’s in those 20 2/3 innings), which suggests his stuff isn’t the issue. “I’m just making too many non-competitive pitches,” Minor said Wednesday.
Clearly the Braves want Minor to succeed. You’ll recall that Jair Jurrjens was shipped to Gwinnett after four similarly bad starts. The difference: Jurrjens was bad in spring training, too; Minor was actually quite good in Florida. Minor has at least given the Braves a reason to think he can get people out.
That said, this can’t go on forever. When Minor falls apart, he falls apart completely. Omar Infante led off the fourth with a line single to left, the Marlins’ first hit. Minor then hit Hanley Ramirez in the back and yielded a two-run double to Austin Kearns, whom he would strike out twice. Miami scored three runs in the fourth. The fifth began with singles by Jose Reyes and Infante and would produce three more runs. One bad inning begat another, and soon Minor was gone and his team was facing a five-run deficit.
The Braves’ hitting has been such that they’ve managed to win a few such games, but you’re not going to outslug everybody all the time. The Braves’ starting rotation has the second-worst ERA among National League teams, leading only Colorado. The reasons for that alarming number are Jurrjens, who’s no longer on the 25-man roster, and Minor, who’s still in the rotation.
It’s weird. All spring everyone was worried that the Braves wouldn’t hit, but they have. At issue now is the commodity that seemed to be a given — starting pitching. But what to do about Minor?
“Keep running him out there,” said Gonzalez, the manager, and there really aren’t many other options. Jurrjens just yielded 12 hits and 10 earned runs in 4 2/3 innings against the Class AAA Buffalo Bisons. Moving Kris Medlen from relief wouldn’t do anything to sort out Minor and would mess up the bullpen to boot. Promoting Julio Teheran from Gwinnett would leave the big-league club without a left-handed starter, which isn’t what anybody has in mind.
The good thing is that the Braves aren’t in free-fall. They’ve lost one game in a row to fall a half-game out of first place. For all Minor’s struggles, they’ve worked around most of them, winning five of his eight starts. Over the long haul though, they need him to be a lot better. They need a lefty, and he’s the only one of those on the horizon.
There’s also this: The Braves didn’t draft this Vanderbilt lefty No. 7 overall in 2009 because they thought he’d look spiffy in middle relief. They did it because they thought he would be a big-league starting pitcher very soon. Sure enough, he’s one now. Just not a very good one.
By Mark Bradley
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
211 comments Add your comment
ATL Fan
May 17th, 2012
9:33 am
So, if Minor is good for three innings, then in the 4th bring in Christhian Martinez or Kris Medlen (based on who is rested). Just know going into it that you’re not getting a 5 inning starter. I doubt Minor would be happy about that but if he doesn’t want to be in the bullpen that’s the other option.
Reality
May 17th, 2012
9:42 am
Our best pitcher pitches for the Indians! Only costs us 11% of the payroll too!
The Braves great pitching depth has disappeared. JJ got annihilated at AAA last night and Minor is a head case-need to score 8-12 runs to win when he starts. Might need to trade for a starter before it’s all over.
Sonny Clusters
May 17th, 2012
9:46 am
We would merely pull Minor aside and tell him he needs another pitch that doesn’t travel over the middle of the plate. A good pitching coach might help there. We was remembering that Roger McDowell made a living with a sinker and we was thinking what a mess Derek Lowe was last year with McDowell and how well he and his sinker are doing now in Cleveland. Whatever the pitch, it needs to have some movement and all the pitches don’t need to look alike coming to the plate. As to Fredi, “keep running him out there” is yet another indictment of his lack of response. Ozzie stole a run last night being sharper than Fredi and the announcers just let it slide right by.
Sonny Clusters
May 17th, 2012
9:47 am
We was filtered!
JAC
May 17th, 2012
9:48 am
Mark, they don’t “need a lefty” in the rotation. They need a pitcher that can get outs. Who cares which arm he pitches with!!!
Sea Trout
May 17th, 2012
9:56 am
The inning before Minor started throwing batting practice to the Marlins, as the first batter of the inning, he hit a ground ball to the infield. His effort to trot down to first base was embarrassing to the Braves uniform. I accept pitchers not giving 100 per cent running to first base on routine ground balls for fear of pulling something. Minor’s trot was only slightly faster than a walk and he turned to the dugout before he got to the bag. I guess Gonzalez was only blowing smoke last year when he said his players will play the game right and hustle.
This to me brings up two points about Minor’s pitching:
1) If he is the lead off batter of an inning and refuses to expend energy, then he may not be in condition to pitch much pass the third or fourth inning
2) If he is willing to disconnect himself while he is the focal point of the game running a ground ball out, then he may be having a concentration problem during games that may be taken place while he is pitching.
Minor has the ability. If Wren, Gonzalez and McDowell can not correct the problem, then they are the problem.
Billy
May 17th, 2012
10:06 am
Get Leo back…don’t give me the BS about Leo after he left the Braves because thats is just BS.
Joel, Mark is very good at what he does.
space monkey
May 17th, 2012
10:06 am
Maybe we should call that sport psychologist that worked with Smoltz. I think this thing with Minor is all mental.
Bulldawg
May 17th, 2012
10:06 am
I’m no major league pitching coach, but I think pitch selection and mental focus are getting Minor in trouble. The first time through the order last night he was dominant by establishing his fastball and challenging hitters. As soon as Infante led off with a single in the fourth, Minor started trying to make “perfect” pitches. He hit Ramirez with an inside fastball, fell behind Kearns 2-0, and then had to throw a “heart of the plate” fastball that unraveled the inning.
As soon as the other team gets a runner on base, he abandons what has made him successful. He needs to trust his stuff and continue to pound the strike zone with fastballs and work the off-speed pitches ahead in the count.
ClemsonBrad
May 17th, 2012
10:14 am
I think they need to give Minor another start or two. If he bombs again, I think you have to give Julio T. a chance.
Hoosier Aaron
May 17th, 2012
10:21 am
If Mickey Hatcher can get axed because Pujols can’t hit….anybody is fair game.
bvillebaron
May 17th, 2012
10:24 am
I agree with many of the other posters, this stuff about not having a lefty in the rotation is over-rated. The team needs the 5 best starters regardless of whether they are left-handed or right-handed. This team has enough left-handers in the bullpen to negate left-handers in the late innings.
As I see it, to say that Minor deserves a few more starts despite the way he has pitched because (1) he looked good in spring training (unimportant in my view) and (2) because he is left-handed, but Jurrjens, who has pitched very well for SEVERAL YEARS in the big leagues before injuring his knee, should be shipped out to AAA and is not deemed to be on a rehab assignment but is now considered a “minor league pitcher” as Gonzalez stated the other day is a classic double standard.
Don’t get me wrong; I haven’t seen JJ pitch @ Gwinnett and am not advocating that he be called up, but merely pointing out that if you are going to do that with him, then the same standard should apply to Minor who has had nowhere near the success JJ has had in the majors. Frankly, I think that it should be almost a no brainer to recall Teheran right now.
Delbert D.
May 17th, 2012
10:24 am
Call John Smoltz for a referral.
Heisenberg
May 17th, 2012
10:28 am
JAC
May 17th, 2012
9:48 am
Mark, they don’t “need a lefty” in the rotation. They need a pitcher that can get outs. Who cares which arm he pitches with!!!
******************************
Amen to that!
This is the same problem that JoJo Reyes had. Look unhittable for a few innings, then fold at the first sign of adversity. I would give him 1 more start on a short leash then put someone else in. Plenty to choose from: Medlen, Livan, Teheran, Martinez.
Jo Nicca
May 17th, 2012
10:35 am
Derek
May 17th, 2012
9:04 am
Braves have worked effectively without a lefty for the last couple of years. Why all of a sudden do we need one now, at least enough to run the risk of playing a struggling pitcher just to have a southpaw in the rotation? There’s not a whole lot of great lefty hitters in the NL East right now with Howard/Utley out and Ike Davis struggling (Laroche is hot right now), so I don’t see the need.
Oh really?
Lets see in 2006 atlanta went 79-83 and finished 3rd, 2007 went 84-78, 2008 went 72-90 and 2009 went 86-76 all finishing 3rd or worse in division. Can you name our LHP starters? Chuch James, JoJo Reyes, Tom Glavine, Mike Hampton. Didnt have hardly any starts from these people and it did affect the team
Heisenberg
May 17th, 2012
10:45 am
Jo, those 06-09 Braves teams had more deficiencies than just lack of quality left handed pitching.
bvillebaron
May 17th, 2012
10:46 am
Jo Nicca:
Who was the left-handed starter in 2010 and how did the team do that year. Did it ever occur to you that there were other reasons for the records in 2006-2009 other than whether the starters were left handed or righthanded?
Beck
May 17th, 2012
10:46 am
Keep sending him out there until the All-Star break. Let him work through it. Like Mark said, he started the year off pretty decently, it hasn’t been until his few starts that he has really struggled. We are still winning in spite of it. The guy is too young and has too much promise to sit here and say he is a bust.
Plus, I think Minor is the best option at this point in time. I like him better than Livan, Teheran, or Martinez. Its not like Teheran has been tearing it up in the minors this year. He has been too inconsistent this year, and hasn’t shown that he can even have a quality start in the Majors (I don’t think he has made it out of the 5th yet).
With Livan or Martinez, I think they are better served in their roles as they are. Medlen makes a good case, but I like him being the next best guy out of the pen before O’Ventebrel. Lets give minor a little more time, and if that doesn’t work out, consider Medlen or Teheran, if he starts tearing it up in Gwinnett.
The rut
May 17th, 2012
10:46 am
Went down to spring training. Watched Minor pitch, told my buddy Scott, that no way was Minor a major league pitcher.
Fats
May 17th, 2012
10:47 am
Sometimes running a guy out there like FG suggests is not the wise choice……Put him in the bullpen or send him to the minor leagues for a while. How long do you put an individual above the team?
buster brave
May 17th, 2012
10:48 am
KEEP RUNNIN’ HIM OUT THERE, PERIOD…………
Franklin
May 17th, 2012
10:49 am
FIRST!!!!
Heisenberg
May 17th, 2012
10:51 am
They can keep running him out there so long as the leash is shorter than a Chinamans ….. well you know. Have the long relief guy start getting loose in the 3rd and bring him in as soon as a run is allowed.
gregpatrick
May 17th, 2012
10:53 am
Minor needs to pitch more aggressively. More first pitch strikes. He needs to focus on moving the ball from the outside corner to the inside corner and change speeds more often. I think McCann can help him more than anyone. It’s definitely a confidence issue and that needs to be resolved before it becomes a major issue. Maybe a sports psychologist is in order.
Ron Roberts
May 17th, 2012
10:54 am
Anybody considered bringing John Smoltz (or his srhink from the ’90s) to talk to the kid? Smoltzie went through a similar issue, and wound up rebounding in remarkable fashion.
Dan Schlossberg
May 17th, 2012
10:54 am
Though not ideal, both the Braves and Dodgers succeeded with all-righthanded rotations in recent memory. Minor did pitch well this spring but the Braves cannot afford to keep running him out there — as they did with Derek Lowe, who went 0-5 in September and personally cost Atlanta a playoff berth. If the team prefers Medlen in the pen, why not switch Minor with Livan Hernandez? The latter may be old but he’s an innings-eater with reasonably good control and a logical fifth starter. The other alternative is to switch Minor with Julio Teheran, who deserves another crack at the majors, or even Sean Gilmartin, whose ability trumps his inexperience. Signing Roy Oswalt wouldn’t hurt either.
Dawgdad (The Original)
May 17th, 2012
10:58 am
Someone in the booth said last night that Minor had said that his changeup was his best pitch, however, it was his third pitch, so he didn’t get to use it as much as he liked. He said he was having trouble with his curveball, pitch 2. Glavine immediately spoke up and said if it is his best pitch why doesn’t he move it up in his selection process, go figure.
Have him work with Glavine through about 2 more starts, maybe get some shrink help from Smoltz’s head doctor working on visualizing success. If that doesn’t help, try him as a reliever. Ron Reed was always great through the first three innings, but never a successful starter, but he was a great reliever.
Game Changer
May 17th, 2012
10:59 am
I saw this in two players the past two years and not sure if an issue or not. Seems to be a real disconnect with several players and our mgr. gonzales or maybe Wren, not sure but looks to me like some players want out of ATL. It is very hard for me to believe my own thoughts on this but I think Jurrjeans is begging to be traded along with some other players. I could be totally wrong but seems to me that several are very happy to be gone from 2011 and some of the 2012 are seeking to be traded.
Dawgdad (The Original)
May 17th, 2012
11:02 am
Where did my comment go?
Put him in the bullpen, he stuff is too good to give up on. If a session or two with Glavine doesn’t help him solve this riddle, try him as a reliever. Worked for Ron Reed and others.
Ron Roberts
May 17th, 2012
11:03 am
Lemme re-post since the site’s eating comments, apparently ….
Anybody considered calling John Smoltz (or his shrink, Dr. Llewellyn)? If anybody can relate to having great stuff and a psychological block ..
AlanFalcon
May 17th, 2012
11:04 am
Bring in Wags as a special consultant, it might save his career, for sure Roger isn’t getting the job done. Last year Roger could not get Lowe out of his funk but look at him now, maybe Roger just doesn’t have the desire to help some people or maybe he doesn’t have the ability, anyway Minor has a future and we need to find it before he finds it with another team.
LakeDawg
May 17th, 2012
11:05 am
Being a lefty can keep one in MLB a long time.
Mike
May 17th, 2012
11:08 am
Bring up Todd Redmond. I think he’s shown consistency in Triple A over the last 2 years and should be given a shot. It could also increase his trade value and help us come June/July if Wren wants to make any moves.
Marvin Mangrum
May 17th, 2012
11:19 am
Leave the ball club without a left handed starter! You dont have one now! If Fredi pulls the Lowe crap like he did last year, just fire him now! His era is soaring, it dont a freaking rocket scientist to figure this out! Send him down, bring up a pitcher who can pitch. You know having a guy who loses every game, what does that do? What are the positives to that? You know, having a keyboard with letters on it that leads to spelling words and the like, dont make you a writer. I can see it now, yep, we needed a lefty, yep, he only lost 23 games but you know having a lefty is what matters! Must be old age, I thought quality mattered! Imagine not having Lowe last year, could we have won one more game? I understand it would not mattered, but what if? You start rolling down a mountain, it kinda gets difficult to stop! And if you writers, is that the word, if you folks cant figure that out then that gives credence to Fredi not figuring it out!
Taxi Smith
May 17th, 2012
11:32 am
Make a short reliever out of him.
jobro
May 17th, 2012
11:35 am
give todd redmond a chance hes dominating at gwinnett he deserves a shot look up his numbers they are sick
Ed
May 17th, 2012
11:40 am
Minor reminds me so much of Kyle Davies. Great expectations but no fulfillment. Both of them think/thought that they were the greatest and should never be questioned. Both of them thought they were the only important players on the field. Both of them never gave any aknowledgement to other players for making a great play. Just watch Hudson. Beachy, or Medlen after a teammate makes a good play saving them. And management continues to say they have all the tools and will get it worked out. But what can I say. I never even played for the Roosevelt Crimson Tide.
iTiSi
May 17th, 2012
11:41 am
FG compounded the problem last night by sitting down two of the main offensive cogs in the lineup. That was nothing more than a “giveaway” game which FG is good about doing at least 3-4 times per year. Each game has to be looked at as the last game of the season. At the end of last year I recalled several similar games and the Braves came up one game short. I’ve already made a note on my schedule about last night and will do the same for the rest of the “giveaway” games just to see how many there are when the Braves come up short once again. Also, Bourn was hot so who gets the blame if he goes into a tailspin now? The bad pitching now makes it imperative that the Braves score runs and lots of them as they were doing. Amazing that they are where they are now with the bad ERAs. It won’t be that way for long with FG at the helm.
Mark (another one)
May 17th, 2012
11:53 am
Some here believe Minor doesn’t know how to pitch, but I think it’s more of an execution issue. He has experienced catchers helping with pitch selection and he has shown he can win games. With young pitchers, a frequent issue is consistency. That comes from maturity. The way to develop maturity is to keep working at the craft.
Watching him struggle is no fun. Reality is that if it continues, it will be in AAA and not the majors. He knows this and is probably doing all he can between starts to prepare to win. It doesn’t matter who’s available to replace him, someone will.
My bet is that Minor will have a long major league career and we are just seeing the begining. He’ll get over this challenge and get on track. I just want it to start with his next start.
The battle cry of the Braves faithful. Give me patience and give it to me now! Baseball is all about patience. It is the biggest difference I can see between last year’s hitters and this year’s. Fredi has it with his players and coaches. It’s also what most fans don’t have.
Mitchell
May 17th, 2012
12:02 pm
The Braves weren’t going to win that game anyway.
I get made fun of for suggesting the Braves could actually do better than 5-2 and 7-2 on their most recent road trips.
Well, guess what? The Marlins just went 8-1 in nine road games.
Given their performance at home this season, they, the Braves, might have to.
The Nationals are in first again as they have been much of the first month and a half and the Marlins are right back in it. And anytime the Phillies want to come back into town and push us around we know they probably will.
As long as they have the Braves, they’re only a last place team on paper.
Blame Mike Minor all you want but he’s not the primary reason for our uninspired home performances in 2012
No Flag Since Lemke
May 17th, 2012
12:05 pm
Should we be surpised by Minor’s performance? He came into the season with an ERA of just under five. The hell of it is we probably could gotten Pence for him and a couple lesser prospects last year.
nashvillewill
May 17th, 2012
12:06 pm
It lost my patience with the Braves during the Cox era when 1 World Series was all you got from all those division winners.
I think the Braves need a left-handed starter and Minor is it for the foreseeable future. Playing the best defense behind him would help–i.e., Ross, Chipper, Bourn. Minor pitching + Franciso 3B + no Bourn +McCann = probable loss. Next start give him the best lineup behind him and tell him he’s pitching 6 innings.
DawgDad
May 17th, 2012
12:06 pm
I was surprised (shocked) when Minor made the roster out of Spring Training, then HE shocked me with that nice 3-game run. He is what he is, a talented young pitcher who hasn’t mastered either his command or knowledge of pitching the third and fourth times through an order (or both). Lots of guys fit this category. When the Braves run out of patience they have a decision to make; if they envision Minor as a starter later this year they need to send him down. As to who they put in the rotation, well, JJ isn’t making this an easy decision. They still have Teheran, Hernandez, Medlen, so there are options. They could trade Minor; I’m sure the Royals would tolerate his development timeline, or they could set up a Minor-Hernandez game day combination. To be a starter, though, Minor needs to pitch through his problems – somewhere.
Two things bother me: (1) The Braves don’t stretch out their starters at the end of Spring Training, and (2) with all this talented young pitching the Braves go and put a sub-par infield (except for Freeman) behind them.
Thank our lucky stars for Tim Hudson and Brandon Beachy, and to a somewhat lesser extent Tommy Hanson and Randall Delgado.
59bulldawg
May 17th, 2012
12:13 pm
For Pete sake do not just “Keep running him out there,” Fredi! If he can’t get it together by his next start, he needs to go join JJ at Gwinnett. Geesh!
Dawg Haus
May 17th, 2012
12:18 pm
I’m hoping it’s just growing pains for Minor. He clearly has big-league stuff.
rosecoloredglasses
May 17th, 2012
12:23 pm
All you are worried about is Minor. Open your eyes. The main reason they are winning games is by scoring lots of runs, not quality starting pitching. When the offense struggles, the Braves cannot win, and they will finish probably 3rd in the East, and the chants of wait till next year, and fire Fredi will fill these posts. The Braves ARE NOT a quality playoff team, so take off those rose colored glasses, remove the blinders and look at the real Atlanta Braves.They were lucky to sweep St. Louis this past weekend, and luck runs its course, then runs out. If they lose today, they could have at least a 5 game losing streak, because I am not sure they can match up with the Rays. Very few teams can.
Ted Turner
May 17th, 2012
12:34 pm
Medlin needs to be put into the starting rotation again.
Really?
May 17th, 2012
12:35 pm
Here’s an idea.. put Minor in to pitch even though he is struggling and then start three non-starter position players and see what happens?? Oh, that was last night. Really… give three off the same night with a struggling pitcher.. brilliant
Stuart
May 17th, 2012
12:36 pm
Until last night I was willing to go with the theory of taking the Colorado and St. Louis starts out of his equation. Now I am not so sure. He just got beat by a Marlins team that isn’t a very good hitting team. I think you go with him one or two more times and then a decision has to be made.
DetroitBraves
May 17th, 2012
12:47 pm
While Minor was considered by most across the industry as a reach at #7, he’s not this bad. And by not being this bad I mean he’s not this bad right now. I know few people out here care much for the more advanced metrics but his xFIP is 3.81 while his ERA is 7.09, plus his 8.4 K/9 indicates he is still missing bats. There is good reason to think he will get better results going forward even if he doesn’t change a thing. That said, the people on here asking for better defense behind him (and I really don’t know who generally has been in the games when he has pitched) may have a point. And I also like the idea of Medlen in the rotation, though to be honest I thought he would eventually take the place of Delgado.