We say it again: The Hawks really did flub a big fat chance
This is Miami's Chris Bosh. Guess what? He's hurt. (AP photo)
As noted, the Hawks tripped over a splendid opportunity to reach the Eastern Conference finals. But, even had they gotten there, they wouldn’t have been expected to win the Eastern Conference finals. You had to figure Miami’s Big Three would have been too big.
Update: Miami’s Big Three is down to two, and the Heat just lost Game 2 at home to the Indiana Pacers. Meaning: The Hawks might have had a better chance in the ECF than we’d have thought.
Run the (depleted) numbers: In Round 1 the Hawks had the homecourt edge over Boston, which was without Ray Allen for Games 1 and 2 and Rajon Rondo for Game 2 and which saw Paul Pierce hurt himself in a shootaround before Game 4; in Round 2 they’d have faced eighth-seeded Philadelphia, which beat Chicago after Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah got hurt, and if they’d won Round 2 they would have faced either Miami, suddenly without Chris Bosh, or Indiana, which nobody really fears.
Oh, and this, too: Al Horford returned in Game 4 of Round 1 after a 3 1/2-month absence, and the Hawks thought Zaza Pachulia might have been ready for Round 2. And we’re being reminded on a nightly basis that the 2012 NBA playoffs are less about excellence than about who’s fit to play.
As we know, Round 2 and the Eastern Conference finals were rendered moot points when the Hawks lost to Boston in six games (after winning Game 1 and leading Game 2 by 11 points). The notion of what might have been hurt, and it will keep on hurting with every wobble by the Celtics (who lost Game 2 of Round 2 at home to Philadelphia after having to steal Game 1) or the Heat (who are tied headed to Indianapolis for Games 3 and 4) or anybody still standing.
For decades we’ve been noting that the Hawks, in addition to being not quite good enough, have never been very lucky. Had they been good enough this time, they’d have had the wind at their backs. I guess you’d have to say that’s the story of their lives: They finally get lucky and it still doesn’t matter.
By Mark Bradley
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126 comments Add your comment
crose714
May 16th, 2012
7:12 am
Morning Mark! You are up early, but right on with this one!
Mark Bradley
May 16th, 2012
7:13 am
Morning, crose714. And kudos to you.
crose714
May 16th, 2012
7:17 am
I would have commented earlier but JS scared the fire out of me with his article on the Braves having to make a decision regarding Brian McCann. Yikes!
AlpharettaGuy
May 16th, 2012
7:18 am
Three!!!??
some sense
May 16th, 2012
7:18 am
They will tell us that they’re going into next season with:
Josh Smith playing in a contract year.
Healthy Horford and Pachulia.
An improved Jeff Teague.
Finally figuring out how to use Marvin Williams…as a sixth man.
Salary relief by dropping Hinrich(?).
A decent (i. e. rotation) player in the draft.
Still relatively young while other top teams are aging.
A coach who inspired forty wins w/ a patchwork roster.
Do we buy this???
crose714
May 16th, 2012
7:22 am
I can’t even understand why “I do buy it” but for some reason, I do. I think the Hawks will be factor in the East next year. Healthier and hungry. The constant optimist I guess.
AlpharettaGuy
May 16th, 2012
7:23 am
Going further in the playoffs may have been bad for the Hawks, giving them false confidence they were making progress past being a first-round playoff loser. As Barkley noted, they need to ‘bust it up.’ A) get a new coach B) hang on to core of Josh, Al & Jeff C) think ‘moneyball’ by finding a guy or two who can really play if given a chance but is buried on someone’s bench. All easier said than done but that’s my two cents.
crose714
May 16th, 2012
7:27 am
The Braves didn’t make any major changes and look great. The Falcons have decided to follow suit and not make any major player changes which, I believe, will be the right decision. I think the Hawks need to follow suit. One more year, lets see what happens.
Rick Sund
May 16th, 2012
7:39 am
The Portland Trailblazers, I mean Atlanta Hawks, have so much UPSIDE!
SimpleDawg
May 16th, 2012
7:41 am
The Atlanta Sparrows will never win big with their current Ownership, Head Coach, and Roster.
Ain’t gonna happen.
Whiskey Breath
May 16th, 2012
7:41 am
Jeff isn’t going to like this. Has he seen your article, or has he been on vacation? I don’t think he approved of this. You do realize the old MB was probably the best reporter the AJC ever had. Jessie was right there with you, but you were one reporter people could count on. When you going back to telling the home team what it want’s to hear? Anyway, it sure is nice to know the talent is still there.
Hawker1
May 16th, 2012
7:45 am
the hawks got hosed by the refs or they would have beat boston! larry drew and the owners need to file a protest with the league!!
Paddy
May 16th, 2012
7:55 am
Hawker1………the refs beat us, sounds like a 12 yr old! Stop it already!
AlpharettaGuy
May 16th, 2012
7:56 am
The Hawks did get hosed but was Drew out at mid-court screaming about that call? Nope. And with 5 second left or whatever & one play to win or tie the game, when the camera did the closeup of Hawks huddling, Josh & Teague & Joe were talking more than Drew. They left the huddle & the players were still talking, figuring out they play that they apparently drew up instead of the coach. Drew may not be a terrible coach but he’s at best average & the Hawks need more than that.
Buddy Grizzard
May 16th, 2012
7:58 am
Please post a beat blog AJC. We wanna talk Hawks and that’s where we do it. Glad Bradley is still talking Hawks as of May 16th but there’s about 100 of us and we only chat on the beat blog.
O'Brien
May 16th, 2012
7:58 am
Mark,
I always thought the ceiling of this team is the second round. So the fact that we didn’t even get to the second round this year is a step back (imo). Unfortunately, we have over $61 mil committed to 6 players next season (projected salary cap of $58 mil). So what can we do?
I would like to see the Hawks make some roster moves. But as we know, they are in love with their core, and will probably use injuries as an excuse this season.
Well, we saw the Falcons and Braves stand pat (as far as player changes go). But the Falcons brought in a new OC, a new DC, and new O-Line coach. The Braves brought in 2 new hitting coaches. Hawks need to follow suit (especially if we bring all the players back). Let LD go, and bring in an established veteran coach (Jerry Sloan maybe?) to see if he can shake things up.
Since the coach’s salary does not count towards the salary cap, ASG needs to pony up for a coaching change.
jlewis
May 16th, 2012
7:59 am
Jeff:
Do you actually believe the NBA was going to let the Hawks beat the Celtics? I’ve been around a long time, the whistle prevents this, note, bad calls, the celtics holding and setting illegal picks all series. Also, you talk about who was out for the Celtics, the hawks played games without no inside presence, injuries hurt the hawks. People kill Joe, but go back and watch the games and observe Teague, he is not a good point guard, he doesnt know when to pass and when to score. In the tough stretches of games, he couldnt get them in the offense and is a terrible passer. You cant build around Josh and Teague, or Horford, but you cant blow it up.
O'Brien
May 16th, 2012
8:00 am
Buddy,
I suggest sending MC an email as well. They shut down the Fan blog last season, and now they can’t even leave the Hawks beat blog open…SMH
Doug
May 16th, 2012
8:10 am
I was hoping for a 8 reasons why the hawks squandered this opportunity!!
Email Profiling Is Wrong
May 16th, 2012
8:10 am
NBA officiating is the most blatantly subjective of any major sport. How else can you explain the foul shot advantage the home team enjoys almost every game?
The league’s “star” system ignores the transgressions of marquee players and awards foul shots to them like they’re a perk negotiated in the last labor agreement.
The NBA’s elite talent expect the preferential treatment too. They consider repeated chances from the charity stripe every game to be an entitlement.
Anybody who thought the refs were gonna call a straight game in Boston – when the Hawks were the opposition – is extremely naive.
GT
May 16th, 2012
8:14 am
Some of Josh Smith’s long distance shots are still in the air.
There is rumor next year the Hawks are cutting their payroll and just keeping Teague and Smith. Teague throws the ball in Smith shoots. Josh is a little slow learning the new offense and already whining that Teague is getting too much time with the ball.
Really?
May 16th, 2012
8:15 am
@AlpharettaGuy –bust it up… are you really ready for that?
When we last did it that year we won 13 games… want that again?
The next year we won 26 if I remember correctly? want that again?
and after busting it up, this is where we are now… want that again?
Really?
BravesFan79
May 16th, 2012
8:23 am
I was thinking the same thing just last night after watching the Pacers beat the Heat. The Heat arent the same without Bosh, and will NOT win a title this year!
SWAT Native
May 16th, 2012
8:28 am
I think that one thing that people forget is that the one team that really seemed to have the Hawks number this season was the Sixers. Would it really have been better to get to the second round and get swept by the 8th seed? I would have rather played Chicago without D. Rose than play the Sixers.
I also want to agree with the several posters that the league did not want to see the Hawks win this series and you saw that in the officiating. But, the Hawks still came much closer to winning this series than it seemed. Even the league admits the refs blew that call at the end of game 6, which I think cost the Hawks the game. And if the Hawks win game 6, there’s no way the Celtics would have won game 7 in the Highlight Factory.
godzilla
May 16th, 2012
8:29 am
Assuming makes a arse outta you.
Rickster
May 16th, 2012
8:30 am
Hey Mark. Make sure you save this column for future use. All you’ll need to do is change the name of the opponent.
AlpharettaGuy
May 16th, 2012
8:33 am
It all depends on what your goal is. If it’s to make it to the second round of playoffs, keep what you have. Bust it up doesn’t have to mean going backward. As I said, easier said than done because you’d really need to move Joe & Marvin & somehow gain a couple of players who fit better–a true center to send Al back to 4 spot and a shooting guard.
I just don’t see the current cast of characters going past round 2, if that.
Sammy Hagar
May 16th, 2012
8:33 am
The Hawks need a consistent scorer like Durant,Kobe,Lebron,Duncan,etc. Joe Johnson gets paid like a scorer but he is 2nd tier.
BravesFan79
May 16th, 2012
8:33 am
Josh Smith took more long 2’s this season than anyone in the NBA besides Kobe.
Anyone who dosent see this as a problem is fooling themselves! Do we blame Josh for not having a very high basketball IQ, or do we blame the coach for having him in the wrong places on the floor, and not jumping down his throat enough when he takes horrible shots!? I say both.
Even tho i think Drew is decent, this fact alone proves we need a new head coach! Im in favor of Jeff Van Gundy, or even Stan Van Gundy after hes let go in the dwight howard soapopera. Both are excellent, emotional coaches who will jump down the refs throats on missed calls like in the last 4 seconds of the Boston game. (speaking of, isnt that what instant replay is for! ) The Hawks get that 1 tech shot and the ball out of bounds, and its a different game! And wed probably of seen the Hawks vs Spurs for the NBA title.
HawksFanSince'89
May 16th, 2012
8:37 am
Restructure Joe Johnson contract, keep your core players Josh, Jeff, and Al, and go out and get a true big center, and maybe another guy who slash down the middle.
Sammy Hagar
May 16th, 2012
8:38 am
J.Johnson not scoring 25ppg is why the Hawks lost.
godzilla's mom
May 16th, 2012
8:43 am
If if’s and but’s were candies and nuts
doc
May 16th, 2012
8:58 am
mark what gives you the notion the hawks could have beaten the sixers who demolished them in the regular season? horford? nah, theyy would figure a way to implode and lose like they did games two and six. sorry, i dont think this team is strong enough mentally to win.
doc
May 16th, 2012
9:04 am
buddy i sent an email, got a rather terse reply but never addressing why the blog got shut down during the climatic point of the year. it wont hurt to send one i imagine just dont expect much in return.
dmr
May 16th, 2012
9:16 am
Love reading the AJC online. The story about the “BLOWN CALL IN GAME 6″ keeps appearing. Focusing on that blown call is like focusing on a QB throwing an INT for a TD, when his team loses by 40 points. IT WASN’T GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE! The Hawks blew GAME 2 at home and I could go on and on. THE HAWKS DON’T HAVE THE TALENT OR THE HEART OVERALL TO BE GREAT!
GT
May 16th, 2012
9:23 am
SWAT Native has a point. I think the northeast crowds really get under the Hawks skin, because they come down here and take over Phillips too. I notice Philly swamps the National games in Washington for baseball like that. It plays with these kids immature minds, if they can’t coach it our of them. And the refs do give these blue blood franchises the calls which for a guy like Smith is a shutdown point. He will start that pouting and wanting to bring the ball down the court himself and not getting back on defense. Teague is not a bad point guard, Smith makes him look like one. A player like Michal Jordon would love this atmosphere and find great humor in it, a also run like Smith pouts. That is the difference between the champion and the rest.
doc
May 16th, 2012
9:27 am
mark for a few dollars more? kmart or r evans would have helped the thin “bigs” even before decimation in evans and certainly needed as the season wore on. owners are committed to a bottom line it seems and not risk takers. they quickly blame everyone else.
this is the second year they lost an opprtunity to go further. woody’s last team neededa few more parts like a big that was capable. a few dollars more that year and we could have been in championship instead of orlando. we rolled over because of it mentally and woody wasnt up to it.
so mark, my hypothesis ywo years we were close but it is going to take ownership willing to lead and put it out there it is about winning. only owners in the history of atlanta sports to take that approach is ted and arthur. arthulr knows you have to sell excellence on the field before fans will come. these owners expect you to show up no matter what out of civic obligation.
KevinM
May 16th, 2012
9:29 am
Too many people here thinking the Hawks had a shot at the ECF. Well, when have they beat a team better than them in a series? Boston is a better ‘team’. They know their roles, they play together much better than what we saw here this year.
Joe had lapses, Josh wastes plenty of possessions on his own whether its a turnover or not…a bad shot is a turnover in the NBA, and they really didn’t want Teague to lead this team.
Let me tell you what I saw with Kentucky this year…they gave the ball to their PG in their 1/2 court game. Their PG’s name was Teague. The other guys played their roles. To me, its really that simple. So instead of telling his big men to give up the ball before something goes wrong, LD supports his big men in the open court. You give the PG the ball in the 1/2 court. Why is this hard to understand?
I don’t like our makeup on this team, 40 wins or not. They didn’t prove they could produce down the stretch, or against a better team. Yes, we won some games against teams over .500, but way too upside down to get any respect from the media.
There is no way this team had enough to win 8 playoff games against the competition they were facing. I think Philly would have drilled us and Miami can beat us without superstars.
Its all a mirage folks. The Hawks have no identity. There are pieces in place, but this team as we know it has peaked.
If you havent’ heard, there is a rumor that Portland actually might have interest in LD. http://portlandtribune.com/sports/story_2nd.php?story_id=133713759290947700
So, based on rumors today, if you had to lose one or the other, would it be Sund or LD? I would vote for Sund IMO, becuase he has made mistakes that will cost this franchise for the next 3 years. We are so limited in flexibility because of 2 guys who aren’t leading us.
KevinM
May 16th, 2012
9:31 am
Let me specify the 2 guys who were brought in here to lead us……#2 and #24.
Thanks Mark for keeping open a blog for Hawks’ supporters.
Darkhorse
May 16th, 2012
9:38 am
If you blow anything about this franchise up, blow up ownership first. Then you may actually start to get somewhere.
STRETCH
May 16th, 2012
9:39 am
dmr,
I think they had the talent, they just didnt have th heart and smarts.
drmaryeb.(*_*).
May 16th, 2012
9:46 am
Shout Out to Mr. Bradley!
Thank you, Mr. Bradley for giving the Hawks beat bloggers something to wake up to. Much like the entire and, most important post season last year, (see the lockout & CBA) we are left without an OPEN BLOG THREAD.
The Hawks have certainly let an opportunity to change the background in their un-storied history, just walk on by. I and others have said all along; This post season will be one of attrition – only the strong will survive and, the last man standing will be triumphant.
Just when we began to get two key players healthy in, Horford and Zaza (supposedly round 2) we once again failed to execute plays in the 2nd and 4th quarters. This team to a man does not their roles on this team and, if they do – they have shown resistance in fulfilling those roles.
If you are not a PG? Then, why insist on bring the ball up on fast breaks in lieu of filling the lanes for easy baskets? If you are not a SG? Then, why insist on jacking up 18 jumpers per game from 16′ to 22′ feet, and not live in the painted post? I think the court is color coordinated and, has white lines to display your high percentage sweet spots.
In those two games back, Horford has a .587 FGP, but for some strange reason, he never got more that 9 looks in any of those two games he played in. Yet the SG and SF who averaged about .327 FPG shot the ball like their hands were on TNT.
News Flash! You don’t need a heat check and, don’t bother to blow on your hands – You were never that hot! Not even close.
Go Get a:
Real Owner
Real GM
Real Coach
Some Real Shooters
A Real center (or backup for Zaza)
A Bonafide PG (or let Jeff be one & a backup to him)
A Real SF
That’s all I got.
Again, thanks Mr. Bradley for giving us a Hawks Blog today. Us cohorts really need to discuss this for The Love of Basketball.
steve brown
May 16th, 2012
9:51 am
Joe Johnson to the Knicks or the Bulls. Say a prayer that the Knicks keep our ex-coach and he decides that he wants Joe Johnson on his team. With the Bulls star out for another year perhaps they have renewed interest in Joe. Don’t sign a GM, we didn’t even know we had one anyway.
biz
May 16th, 2012
9:56 am
woulda.
shoulda.
coulda.
didnt.
Ed Gray
May 16th, 2012
9:58 am
Blown call is such a joke. Overcoming the breaks that the refs/league handed to Boston is extremely difficult. We need new ownership because we have no respect around the league. It starts at the top.
AlpharettaGuy
May 16th, 2012
9:59 am
Joe Johnson to the Bulls….hmmm… maybe some traction there. Rose is out for the year, they’re trying to move Boozer..I wouldn’t take Boozer, he’s overrated, but maybe the Bulls would go for some kind of deal for Joe to replace Rose. I think taking Joe off of the Hawks would be addition by subtraction & he might fit for the Bulls for one year. Noah would be a high energy guy to bring in to the 5 spot.
O'Brien
May 16th, 2012
10:01 am
doc,
Reggie Evans signed with the Clippers on December 21. A one year deal for the vet min. Hawks signed Vlad Rad on Dec. 9 for the vet min. Clearly, the better investment would have been Reggie Evans, a proven energy/rebound guy, especially since the cost was the same. Plus nobody knew what to expect from Ivan.
But remember what Rick Sund said. We like our bigs.
drmaryb.(*_*).
May 16th, 2012
10:03 am
Lost Puppy!
We need a metal detector to find the lead in Marvin’s “a z z”. This is the only way we can know where his is on a nightly basis.
Guest appearances in the regular and play offs, will no longer be sufficient going into next season.
O'Brien
May 16th, 2012
10:06 am
doc,
Reggie Evans signed with the Clippers on December 21. A one year deal for the vet min. Hawks signed Vlad Rad on Dec. 9 for the vet min. He was there for the taking, and we passed.
Our bench helped us during the season, but they gave us nothng during the playoffs.
O'Brien
May 16th, 2012
10:07 am
Mark,
Talk about bad asset management. Hawks are in luxury tax, dedpite having 8 guys making the vet min, and a 9th guy on a rookie contract.
Delbert D.
May 16th, 2012
10:19 am
Come on, Mark. F-o-o-t-b-a-l-l.
SWAT Native
May 16th, 2012
10:20 am
I came back because I wanted to say a word for Josh Smith. I saw a different player this season. Yeah, I wish he didn’t bring the ball up or shoot long jumpers so much. But, if he didn’t step his game up when Al Horford got hurt, I don’t think the Hawks make the playoffs, and he was their key player doing that Celtic series. That was him on the floor fighting for a loose ball when Rondo got ejected in Game 1. He had big games in Games 1 and 2. If he finished Game 2 and played Game 3, I think the Hawks would have won both games. I didn’t want that jumper at the end of Game 6, but I’ve seen him make that shot in games in the same situation. Even on that blown out of bounds call, he had beaten KG on a cut that would have been a layup and Marvin had hit him in stride when the whistle was blown. I don’t think he deserves all this criticism.
doc
May 16th, 2012
10:25 am
yup that is what i was suggesting evans before the season and kmart during the season when we were desparate. there is no way a team starting the worst player by the numbers at center should ever conceive there were enough parts around him to make it fly. it is like the braves turning a bull pen specialist against lefties into a starter in the baseball playoffs. it wont work for long.
kg essentially beat us by himself. pp had the great gsme two but we cuoked on that one plain and simple and why i dont think these guys are winners. the mindset to be a winner is different. we dont have one of those except for al who has the mind but not the overall skill or teammates to go further.
did you listen to kmart and paul in their pist game interviews last night? huge difference in what we get from josh and jj. they said no excuses, we have to play better in the case of kmart and paul said we arent going to win if i shoot 3-13. i have got to do better.
we hear about jersey colors as if that should make a difference for a pro, and i dont get the ball enough or we need to do better from jj never owning up to his clear lack of responsibility to the wheels not rolling right. does everyone see the excuses underlying those comments though the season motto was no excuses.
even the owners make excuses after flubbing and getting caught mouthing off cant say it was an expensive lesson ill timed and my bad, though i certainly believe they are right in saying the refs sucked but not calling out the opposition in the middle of yhe playoffs in a guy who clearly likes playing with a chip on his shoulder.
KevinM
May 16th, 2012
10:33 am
Too many ‘ifs’, plain and simple. As I said on the MC blog, these guys are going about their business, and it doesn’t hurt enough for them to overcome their limitations.
One guy improved over the offseason: Josh. The rest: you got what you expected.
When we lost Game 2, we lost the Boston series. We didn’t have to win a game in Boston until then. That wasn’t going to happen and it didn’t happen the game prior in Boston in the regular season when the refs tried to give the Hawks the game in the last minute.
No more Josh antics, no more long jumpers.
No more Marvin disappearing acts…he’s watching LeBron and still gets paid to do it.
Move Horford if he won’t defend the center position…whether to PF or to another team.
We have assets to keep the opporunity alive. We cannot stand pat like we have since Teague was drafted in ‘09. To move Bibby out wasn’t enough and it costs us 2 future talent players. If we can’t move Joe, then bring in a guy that will complement Joe even if it costs us Teague.
Sautee
May 16th, 2012
10:34 am
Mark, thanks for being here for us Hawks fans. Too bad the AJC is so lame with their blogs, particularly the Hawks blog. I wonder if the advertisers who pay good money for a banner that is never seen would think this was a good business practice?
Maybe someone should tell them…hmmmmm.
IceColdATLien
May 16th, 2012
10:37 am
SWAT, I hate to say it, but having your PF be second in the league (only to Kobe) in long 2-pt attempts… and hitting only 32% of them… is simply insane. He simply will not get it through his thick skull that HE DOESN’T HAVE A JUMP SHOT. He destroys all those possessions by jacking up those shots just inside the 3-pt arc. I understand everything he gives the team in other areas of the game, but he’s just too dumb to recognize his main weakness and then address it (namely by NOT SHOOTING THOSE LONG 2s).
I partly blame Drew for not sitting Josh each time he takes those stupid jumpers, but at the same time I understand that Josh is a head case and Drew knows it. Oh well…
doc
May 16th, 2012
10:38 am
well the famous bradley blog screen gets me again. what is it about this blog more than the rest? a timer?
doc
May 16th, 2012
10:40 am
is that a real stat about number of long two’s?
AlpharettaGuy
May 16th, 2012
10:42 am
Josh Smith is a keeper. He’s tremendously talented but makes bone-headed plays & decisions at times. The answer is better coaching. We need to talk to the Bulls about Joe (throw in Marvin for free) & see what they can offer in return. Keep Josh, keep Al…get some good pieces and a good coach around them & go from there.
drmaryb.(*_*).
May 16th, 2012
10:47 am
SWATNative
“But, if he didn’t step his game up when Al Horford got hurt, I don’t think the Hawks make the playoffs, and he was their key player doing that Celtic series.”
__________
Yes Sir, you are spot on correct here. If, Josh would just fix those two tendencies though, he would be a hands down All Star. In my eyes, Josh IS already an All Star for the reasons you just stated. This series exit was in now way his fault, but, the biggest room in the house is the room for:
Self Improvement.
We can ALL improve something in our lives. So, no Josh does not get the blame for the Boston Series lost, he is actually the reason we were ever in it. Kudos to JOSH for an excellent year, and his constant improvement. If, Josh is here next year … I expect even better improvement from last year. His jump shot is legit, he just needs better shot selection on every trip down the floor, he needs to pick his spots and take them when the team needs it and, not when the defense wants him to take those early in the shot clock. Just drive to the paint on more of those looks.
And, just give the ball to Jeff, Jeff will give it back. Love Josh though. (see the coach, here)
cdog
May 16th, 2012
10:48 am
yes mark i totally agree. if they get rid of rick sund and larry drew to start with then look to van gundy and phil jackson as replacements, you will see them begin to go in the championship direction. there’s the possibility of rehiring billy knight, anything except rick sund
Rick Sund
May 16th, 2012
10:51 am
We’re going to let Larry Drew go … and promote Lester Conner to head coach.
Andy
May 16th, 2012
10:52 am
Here is the Hawks’ problem: Joe and Marvin do the minimum to get paid; Josh is physically talented but mentally undisciplined. We need to dump all three. We should rebuild around Horford and Teague.
Dragon
May 16th, 2012
11:01 am
It’s ironic that one of the best basketball writers in the country is stuck in NBA/NCAA hell in a talent-rich environment. Mark Bradley deserves to cover better teams.
Maybe in his next life…
DawgNole
May 16th, 2012
11:01 am
some sense
May 16th, 2012
7:18 am
They will tell us that they’re going into next season with:
Josh Smith playing in a contract year.
Healthy Horford and Pachulia.
An improved Jeff Teague.
Finally figuring out how to use Marvin Williams…as a sixth man.
Salary relief by dropping Hinrich(?).
A decent (i. e. rotation) player in the draft.
Still relatively young while other top teams are aging.
A coach who inspired forty wins w/ a patchwork roster.
Do we buy this???
______________________
We shouldn’t, but many will. Just check out the post right after yours–by the delusional crose714.
Rod from College Park
May 16th, 2012
11:15 am
O’Brien
“Our bench helped us during the season, but they gave us nothng during the playoffs.”
But I thought Willie Green was just as good as Jamal Crawford (LOL). Simply put, if the Hawks resigned Jamal Crawford this offseason, we would be at least going to the ECF.
Rod from College Park
May 16th, 2012
11:17 am
Coaching is the real issue. Especially on the offensive side of the floor.
DawgNole
May 16th, 2012
11:22 am
O’Brien
May 16th, 2012
8:00 am
Buddy,
I suggest sending MC an email as well. They shut down the Fan blog last season, and now they can’t even leave the Hawks beat blog open…SMH
_______________________
If he responds to emails like he interacts with his bloggers, you’re wasting your time.
Josh
May 16th, 2012
11:23 am
Mark this is a lot fo coulda, woulda, shoulda. Remember these are the Hawks and even if they would have won Game 7 they still would have managed to choke against the 76ers who owned them all year long.
DawgNole
May 16th, 2012
11:32 am
SWAT Native
May 16th, 2012
8:28 am
” . . . if the Hawks win game 6, there’s no way the Celtics would have won game 7 in the Highlight Factory.”
_________________________
Uh, hello? Celtics have seldom had trouble winning in ATL. I direct your attention to Game 2 of the series (in the Highlight Factory), when many figured the Hawks would triumph against the aging, Rondo-less Celtics. How’d that work out for you?
DawgNole
May 16th, 2012
11:45 am
doc
May 16th, 2012
8:58 am
mark what gives you the notion the hawks could have beaten the sixers who demolished them in the regular season? horford? nah, theyy would figure a way to implode and lose like they did games two and six. sorry, i dont think this team is strong enough mentally to win.
doc
May 16th, 2012
9:27 am
. . . it is going to take ownership willing to lead and put it out there it is about winning. only owners in the history of atlanta sports to take that approach is ted and arthur. arthulr knows you have to sell excellence on the field before fans will come. these owners expect you to show up no matter what out of civic obligation.
__________________
Right with you on these two observations, doc.
Zeke!
May 16th, 2012
11:46 am
bring in isiah thomas as coach and GM take this team to the top! Zeke will want huge money but he will be worth it!
DawgNole
May 16th, 2012
11:48 am
biz
May 16th, 2012
9:56 am
woulda.
shoulda.
coulda.
didnt.
____________________
Yet again.
O'Brien
May 16th, 2012
11:50 am
Rod,
I agree that we needed more scoring. But to say that Jamal alone would have gotten us to the ECF? I disagree. Why is it both years he was here, we lost in the second round.
But you’re right in that the bigger issue is coaching (and LD does not know how to use Jamal effectively either).
The irony is one reason LD got the job is because Woody’s iso-Joe was not working anymore, and LD sold Rick and the ASG on his so called “motion-offense”. But yet offense got worse under LD.
O'Brien
May 16th, 2012
11:54 am
doc,
I can’t find the quotes, but Before the season started, didn’t Rick Sund come out and say “we like our bigs”?
Look for more basement shopping this off-season (as in all vet min salary guys again).
Sid
May 16th, 2012
12:06 pm
in other words…..break them up they are hopeless and clueless.
HawkFan
May 16th, 2012
12:10 pm
it may be up to the fans to demand respect from the refs. I think the refs fear for their safety in some of the more rabid arenas around the league and so the calls go to the home team, not so much in the ATL. maybe as fans we need to change the culture in the ATL from southern hospitality to you better make good calls for the Hawks or ELSE! Is that what you want? Josh? media? Owners???
AlpharettaGuy
May 16th, 2012
12:19 pm
Zeke!, Bringing in Isiah Thomas?? I appreciate your humor. If you wanna do that, why not just bring in Allen Iverson as player/coach? Practice? Practice? You talkin about practice, man!
Hawks need to send Joe & Marvin to the Bulls, try to get Noah (you’d have to throw ZaZa in the mix, then). If you can’t get Noah, get Deng. AND, get a new coach.
one man's opinion
May 16th, 2012
12:21 pm
Guys, I don’t comment very often but wanted to share some observations…
1) JJ’s contract is a sunk cost. It will hamstring us in the future with the cap, so we have to do something about it now. We may have to sacrifice next year (much like the Mavs did this season) in order to get in a better place for the future. Something must be done though. Maybe we can trade him, kick in 5-6 mil/yr to help the receiving team with the contract, use the amnesty, free up future cap space and go find someone with the other ~$14 mil to help replace him. It is imperative that we address this now or else we risk slowly digressing until we are back in the lottery
2) Smoove is a baller but he plays undisciplined ball at critical times. I think a new coach, one that is respected, and one that will not tolerate his undisciplined style is imperative. However, this may not change anything. IMO, Smoove’s biggest problem is he feels like this is his team (since he has been here longer than any other) and therefore he needs to facilitate the offense. Until he understand his role, we will not see improvement. Maybe a well respected coach can get through to him to understand how his skills could be best utilized. If so, he would be a perennial all-star.
3) Teague just finished his rookie season imo. He has now started 76 reg season games. Not playing him until Hinrich went down in the playoffs delayed his growth as a player. He is not polished yet, but he is a guy that can facilitate the offense. I can’t see letting him go now unless we know we are bringing in a high quality PG.
4) I am not impressed with LD because I don’t feel the players show him enough respect. (see above about Smoove). In order to get a great coach, we need a quality GM. In order to bring in a quality GM, we need solid ownership. I am not sure this will be addressed this off season.
5) just wanted to throw in the fact that I am disappointed at how Tmac was used in the playoffs.
juice sourcer
May 16th, 2012
12:23 pm
If…ifs and buts were cherry and nuts we would all have a Merry Christmas…and if the Hawks made it to the finals they would have been humiliated by either San Antonio or Oklahoma City.
Larry
May 16th, 2012
12:26 pm
The Hawks are vanilla, uninteresting and boring…all leading to irrelevancy.
Larry
May 16th, 2012
12:36 pm
In all sports blogs, I’d be willing to bet that 99% of those fans always blaming ownership for poor player selection, poor coaching and poor play have never owned or operated a business in their lives…and never will!
Rod from College Park
May 16th, 2012
12:42 pm
“I agree that we needed more scoring. But to say that Jamal alone would have gotten us to the ECF? I disagree. Why is it both years he was here, we lost in the second round.”
We lost to better teams. I think we are better than Boston with Jamal (we could not score), and we probably are better than Philly with him (Philly shuts down Joe). Miami without Bosh is not a good team either.
Rudi
May 16th, 2012
12:42 pm
uhh, hawks went 0-3 against the sixers. No chance Hawks beat them
doc
May 16th, 2012
12:56 pm
rod, money honey. if jamal wanted a vet minimum he would have been welcomed with open arms. there wasnt enough in the budgeted kitty to bring him in as teams have to carry a certain number, right? i hear ya, but drop it rod, aint realistic and you are obsessed with it, until they get some more bread to spend on these guys or pick up someone being paid by someone else who might think this is his ticket to the nba finals, heh heh.
AlpharettaGuy
May 16th, 2012
12:57 pm
Back to the title of this thing, “Hawks Flub a Chance.” Consider this: Celtics are old, Bulls have no Rose, Miami is dysfunctional…Hawks have as good a chance as anyone next year if they can make a few moves. Standing pat won’t do anything.
Karma
May 16th, 2012
1:04 pm
The Atlanta spirit has taken a city with 4 teams and in my world cut it to 2. They sold the thrashers and I will never support them or go to philips until the Hawks are sold. Just left with braves and falcons. As soon as they are sold, and let’s face it the asg has mastered lying with the claims they are not for sale, I will be back. Until then they can continue to run this franchise into the ground. Thrilled NBA fined Gearon. Worst ownership in all of sports and a plague on this city.
Marcus
May 16th, 2012
1:04 pm
Mr. Bradley,
Yeah we definitely had a shot, and this Celtics team was not unbeatable. Man, it sux for our season to be over so early.
We can rail on LDs offense all we want, but there are other teams who run iso at ends of games as well. Folks (supposed NBA analysts) are poo-poing the chances of the 76ers and Pacers wining tight games due to lack of a “closer” and Lebron and D-Wade are catching heat (no pun intended) for not taking shots a la solo variety to win Game 2. Us Hawks fans can’t have it both ways, esp. if the culture and expectations of the NBA is to put the ball in your best players hands at the end of the game to win it or tie it. It not just a Hawks thing, it is across the league.
Shot selection in key moments remains a growth area.
tom
May 16th, 2012
1:08 pm
it just kills me to see the sixers win a game in boston! There’s a team that hasn’t had much playoff experience in the past 5 years and already they have a road playoff win in the second round. Only last year did these hawks register 1 second round playoff road win against a good bulls team.
Marcus
May 16th, 2012
1:17 pm
The Jamal thing is just speculation … he could just as easily shot us into a win vs. shot us into a loss.
PMC
May 16th, 2012
1:19 pm
Yet the city of Atlanta is lambasted because they have not fallen over themselves to pay ridiculous prices to go see one of the most inept franchises ever go through the motions night in and night out.
LawDawg
May 16th, 2012
1:19 pm
Par for the course. This franchise is pathetic.
Marcus
May 16th, 2012
1:21 pm
ditto SWAT native, Josh had a step on KG as the ball was in the air, and Pierce was late on backside help.
We had chances for 2 wins in BOS, missed both. Season over.
Josh
May 16th, 2012
1:22 pm
You do not win championships by being the least least bad team…you win championships by being great. And the Hawks were not great…
BravesFan79
May 16th, 2012
1:23 pm
I think our GM did a excellent job actually in bringing in Vrad (underused), Ivan, Tmac, Green and Pargo. I really like Crawford tho, but i thought steping up to get crawford in the first place was a huge step up for the Hawks back in 2009 or whatever year it was. We need to keep Sund as GM, and bring in a top notch coach to replace Drew. Because if Josh Smith turned into the player hes capable of being, and actually setting screens worth a damn instead of quickly giving up on it so he can take a long 2 instead, the Hawks would be EFC material every year!
Jeff Van Gundy for coach! And anyone who remembers the defensive intensity of the old Knicks or Rockets knows why!
SWAT Native
May 16th, 2012
1:30 pm
@ DawgNole – again, if Josh Smith finishes Game 2 (I believe the Hawks were winning when he left with about six minutes left) I believe they win that game. Even without him, it came down to the last possession. Remember, the Hawks won two out of three at home in that series. Yes, I believe the Hawks would have won Game 7!
JSS
May 16th, 2012
1:31 pm
Run away Hawks blog!!! Let it go, the series is done! Unless I’m reading about changes and Tyrone Hill is going out the door, there’s nothing to talk about really… Oh yeah, it doesn’t matter if some people don’t own a business. Irving Thalberg didn’t own MGM, but I bet you know who made that company great, it wasn’t Louie B. Mayer! Sounds like the fools who ran Lee Iacocca away from Ford, there are multiple ways to get to profitability!
drmaryb.(*_*).
May 16th, 2012
1:35 pm
Mr. Bradley
Can you please keep a Hawks Thread open for us this Summer?
Last Season during the lock out, us rabid Hawks Bloggers were locked out too. I don’t think we got more than 7even threads in four months. Even when we did get one, it would automatically close down in about 24 hours. Basically, we got nothing.
Please help us.
Jumboboard
May 16th, 2012
2:10 pm
Do you have a SPORTS BLOG? Create custom scoreboards with JumboBoard! More info http://jumboboard.com
SWAT Native
May 16th, 2012
2:21 pm
Let me prolong the discussion and start a new controversy by noting that the Hawks won as many games as the number of points the Falcons scored in the playoffs. Which team really blew it?
Najeh, are you out there?
bid don
May 16th, 2012
2:37 pm
To the idiot who said the Hawks need to file a protest with the league over the blown call one thing immediately comes to mind. You must be a democrat because you beileve any could give a s… about a protest. And you’re probably a 99 percent protester sitting in your own filth bitching about the Hawks and complaining about “unfairness” and the evils of capitalism all along watching your frigging I Pad like a lion watching a freakin zebra grazing. F the Fing Hawks. Nuf said. They should never have been in that position to begin with. Hey,, Mr. Protester, why don’t you and your democatic idiot pals go protest out in front of the NBA offices over the blown call. The Hawks are to basket ball what salmonilla is to food. Just plain shitty.
O'Brien
May 16th, 2012
3:14 pm
As bad as the Hawks have been, they have 3 playoff series victories in the last 4 years. In that same time span, the Falcons have not won any playoff games (0-3), and the Braves have not even made it to the playoffs.
As for coaching, who would you rather have? LD, Dough Collins (Sixers coach) or Frank Vogel (Pacers coach). imo, I would rank LD 3′rd.
doc,
If the owners wanted to work the refs (complaining about KG), they should have let LD do the talking before the series started. Doug Collins told the refs to watch out for KG blah blah blah. Next thing you go, KG gets called for 3 moving screens in game 2. Before the Pacers-Heat series started, the Pacers coach went on radio and said the Heat are big floppers.
Before the Boston-Hawks series, LD should have talked to the refs from game 1 about the Celtics, or say it on the radio so it gets out. But this season, LD had 1 technical. He is a guy who keeps his mouth shut. He is probably afraid to get fined though (with his cheap salary).
O'Brien
May 16th, 2012
3:36 pm
If I’m not mistaken, Doc Rivers got 8 technical’s this season, Pacers coach (6), George Karl and Tom Thibodeau (5 each), Rick Carlisle, Mike Brown, Scott Brooks (4). LD and Mark Jackson are the only HC who had only one technical.
LakeDawg
May 16th, 2012
3:40 pm
We say it again: The Hawks really did flub a big fat chance
Of course they did. Smooooooooooove!
Jimmy Crack
May 16th, 2012
3:41 pm
Coulda, shoulda, woulda. You could have been a corporate titan or President of the Braves, Mark. Right now, you could be on your own private island sipping a margarita with your toes in the sand.
But no, you made some decision somewhere that changed all that, and here you are reading our crapola.
L Lovelace
May 16th, 2012
3:49 pm
mb this is partly your fault since you thought they were a lock to take down boston. you have to know any atl professional team is going to choke especially if the odds are in their favor to win. excluding death and taxes, if your a betting man, any atl pro team is pretty much a lock to take the bone if the odds favor them
DawgNole
May 16th, 2012
4:21 pm
Larry
May 16th, 2012
12:36 pm
In all sports blogs, I’d be willing to bet that 99% of those fans always blaming ownership for poor player selection, poor coaching and poor play have never owned or operated a business in their lives…and never will!
____________________
That doesn’t change the fact that ownership of ATL teams is to blame for “poor player selection, poor coaching, and poor play.”
Rod from College Park
May 16th, 2012
4:23 pm
“The Jamal thing is just speculation … he could just as easily shot us into a win vs. shot us into a loss.”
But the key is he would have shot it. There was not another guy on the team who was not scared to shoot it when it mattered except Josh, and we know what those results were. So if Jamal was on this team, this year would you rather him taking that 15 foot jump shot, or Josh? I know who I would choose, and we all know, it would have been a jump shot, because that is all this team does is shoot jumpers.
DawgNole
May 16th, 2012
4:33 pm
SWAT Native
May 16th, 2012
1:30 pm
@ DawgNole – again, if Josh Smith finishes Game 2 (I believe the Hawks were winning when he left with about six minutes left) I believe they win that game. Even without him, it came down to the last possession. Remember, the Hawks won two out of three at home in that series. Yes, I believe the Hawks would have won Game 7!
________________________
“. . . again, IF Josh Smith finishes Game 2 . . .” blah blah blah.
IF!
It’s only two letters, but it’s a HUGE word in ATL, where it means yet another EXCUSE. If you can accept another round of IFs (EXCUSES) after nearly half a century–and it certainly appears that you can since you’ve just offered up one more–go right ahead.
After all this time, I want better than that. You should as well.
______________________
Rod from College Park
May 16th, 2012
4:36 pm
doc,
“rod, money honey. if jamal wanted a vet minimum he would have been welcomed with open arms. there wasnt enough in the budgeted kitty to bring him in as teams have to carry a certain number, right? i hear ya, but drop it rod, aint realistic and you are obsessed with it, until they get some more bread to spend on these guys or pick up someone being paid by someone else who might think this is his ticket to the nba finals, heh heh”
It was very realistic, and could have been done a number of ways. Could have amnestied Marvin, Traded Kirk Hinrich with an expiring contract at the deadline. Could have picked up a guy similar to Jamal (Barbosa, Nick Young, Jamal), at the deadline, but no, you stand pat and average 81ppg in the playoffs. No excuses. I knew we would have problems in the playoffs, and I don’t get paid by the Hawks, how could Sund or the coach not know. Organization as a whole is a joke. We went in the luxury tax anyway to pay guys like Stackhouse and Vlad, and they got no action in the playoffs at all. They reward guys who have no heart (Joe, and Marvin), disrespect guys who lay it on the line every game dispite their faults (Jamal and Josh), and can’t develop talent Teague, JC2, Ivan ……….
229Bravesfan
May 16th, 2012
4:36 pm
Unitl the Hawks have a new owner and GM, you can forget about the Hawks ever doing something in the playoffs.
Skeezix
May 16th, 2012
4:41 pm
I was surprised the Hawks got as far as they did. They just didn’t appear to be a well coached team or maybe they have some personnel/ego issues they need to correct.
SWAT Native
May 16th, 2012
4:42 pm
@ DawgNole – you asked me what makes me think the Hawks would have won Game 7 and I was explaining why. It’s all speculation either way. I also agree with Rod that IF the hawks had kept the “Celtic Killer” Jamal Crawford they would have won the series.
Of course I want more. Hope for better results is what keeps me a fan. But that doesn’t mean I have to trash my team when they lose.
DawgNole
May 16th, 2012
4:43 pm
O’Brien
May 16th, 2012
3:14 pm
As bad as the Hawks have been, they have 3 playoff series victories in the last 4 years. In that same time span, the Falcons have not won any playoff games (0-3), and the Braves have not even made it to the playoffs.
______________________
Is the fact that the Falcons and Braves have performed even more miserably in the postseason over the past 4 years than the Hawks somehow supposed to make us feel better about the Hawks?
Skeezix
May 16th, 2012
5:07 pm
Duh…the Braves were in the postseason in 2010.
cdog
May 16th, 2012
5:08 pm
josh, joe, jeff, are fine.need to get dwight howard. if you get rid of larry drew and rick sund, replace them with van gundy, danny ainge,even majic or someone who is about championship first because if you win, the money will come in. with sund, it’s money first and championship never.howard would come home if you’re doing what it takes to win a championship. if sund and drew stays, atlanta hawks franchise is doom to lose for seasons to come
Up
May 16th, 2012
5:15 pm
Hawks did well to push Boston to 6. Should have been a sweep or 5 game series. Boston is too much for the Hawks. I believe the team in the driver seat and the Eastern conference champ will be the Celtics. So no, the Hawks did not blow an opportunity, what was supposed to happen….happened.
btwarren
May 16th, 2012
5:19 pm
The Hawks problem is even though Woody is gone,they still rely on ISO JO in crunch time. If you will notice, during crunch time, Joe gets the ball from Teague dribbles in the same spot for 15 seconds and then either jacks up a bad shot, bounces it off his foot, gets it stolen, makes a bad pass out of bounds or occassionally makes the tough shot. They live and die with that and in the end they usually die. Second problem is Teague either doesn’t have confidence in himself at crunch time or LD doesn’t. Not sure which but if you notice any time Teague makes a mistake his starts shaking his head and looking not very confident or he tries too hard on the next possission and messes up becasue he is trying to hard. Third problem, Josh needs to stop trying to lead the break if he is worried about teague making a mistake he is the one getting the ball stolen or dribbling it off his foot. Teague will not get better if he isn’t the one leading the breaks. Coach needs to make Josh stop this. Horford too.
nomi76
May 16th, 2012
6:47 pm
Hawks really did blow a tremendous opportunity…..the path to the NBA Finals was opening up for them perfectly but all they could do is trip over themselves…much like the Falcons blew it in the 2008-09 playoffs with the loss at Arizona which really stung even more after the top seeded Giants lost at home to the 6 seeded Eagles which means the Falcons could have hosted the NFC Championship game…same old story for ATL teams
If the Hawks want to go anywhere next year and get out of this mediocrity hell they need to make just one move….trade JJ and Horford or Smoove for D Howard. This is the only trade that gives the Magic any real value for Howard before they lose him for nothing.
LakeDawg
May 16th, 2012
6:49 pm
The Celtics are iminately beatable. They might make the finals, but that says more about the Eastern Conference than the Celtics. They are on their last gasp. The Hawks could have easily won that series in 6 instead of losing it in 6. The fact they didn’t tells us everything we need to know about the Hawks. If not this year, then NEVER. Of course, anybody that knows human nature has known this for at least two years.
Harpie
May 16th, 2012
7:07 pm
The Hawks are not going to do squat until they get a coach! Larry Drew is a nincompoop.
JSS
May 16th, 2012
8:18 pm
“Is the fact that the Falcons and Braves have performed even more miserably in the postseason over the past 4 years than the Hawks somehow supposed to make us feel better about the Hawks?”
No, but you’d think idiot Braves and Falcons supporters would learn their place on the totem pole of post-season losers!
DawgNole
May 17th, 2012
12:22 pm
SWAT Native
May 16th, 2012
4:42 pm
@ DawgNole – you asked me what makes me think the Hawks would have won Game 7 and I was explaining why. It’s all speculation either way. I also agree with Rod that IF the hawks had kept the “Celtic Killer” Jamal Crawford they would have won the series.
Of course I want more. Hope for better results is what keeps me a fan. But that doesn’t mean I have to trash my team when they lose.
___________________
I did NOT ask you what makes you think the Hawks could beat the Celtics in Game 7. You wrote that their was “no way” they could’ve beaten the Hawks in the Highlight Factory in Game 7, and I simply pointed out that they had done so less than a week prior, so their obviously was “a way.”
I did NOT mention Rod or Jamal Crawford at all.
I did NOT suggest that you “have to trash my [your] team when they lose.”
If you want to engage in discussion, fine, but don’t distort what I’ve written.
Mr Mojo
May 17th, 2012
12:57 pm
Jerry Sloan is the answer. If they are bringing the same team back they will need a real coach.
Mr Mojo
May 17th, 2012
12:59 pm
Joe and Teague to the Nets for Deron Williams..If the Nets feel they can’t sign him they are going to want to trade him rather than get nothing. Moving to Brooklyn they will need to be somewhat competitve.
kuhndog
May 17th, 2012
9:58 pm
I like Larry D but he did not show enough passion towards the refs. or his players when they needed it, if there is a better coach out there ie.J Sloan than I would go for it.If you can get something decent for JJ I would do it he is on the last 3 years of his contract and I can guarantee he will get injured next year.I hate to see it cause JJ is a great hawk in my eyes,brought bball back to ATL.I think Josh S requires a little more thought,if you can get a premium return yes or wait it out til the trade dead line.Marvin W I think if JJ or Josh is gone he will play a little better,but of the 3 JJ Josh and Marvin ,Marvin would be my first choice to go.Now the Heat lost game 3 Hibbert needs to be suspended Bosh was the second super star raped by Hibbert that i know of,Horford was first,come on league get your crap together. The refs. and the leauge want ATL to have a b ball team but they dont want to give us fair calls or any respect call it a cop out but that is my opinion.GO HAWKS