ESPN’s Law ranks the Braves’ farm system pretty darn low
Keith Law wasn't so high on Mike Minor (middle), either. (AJC photo by Hyosub Shin)
Because the Braves take pride in their farm system, Keith Law’s latest appraisal isn’t apt to get the save-print-and-frame treatment at 755 Hank Aaron Drive. Writing for ESPN Insiders, Law ranks the Braves’ minor-leaguers as baseball’s 16th-best.
Law’s take on the Braves (link requires registration):
They have reaped as little from the draft the past two years as anyone, taking low-ceiling college guys with early picks, staying at or under MLB’s bonus recommendations and having less luck on the international market. It’s telling that the major question on every position-player prospect in their top 10 is whether he’ll hit.
This represents a sharp falloff. Law had the Braves third in his organizational rankings last winter. In 2010, he placed them fifth. (That was the year he tabbed Jason Heyward as the No. 1 overall prospect.) That said …
Over the past two seasons, the Braves have produced one National League rookie of the year (Craig Kimbrel in 2011) and two runners-up (Heyward in 2010, Freddie Freeman last season). It would be difficult for any team — alliteration alert! — to sustain such a spree of sudden splashes.
Still, you’d think that the Braves’ glut of young pitching — Baseball America lists five pitchers among the organization’s top eight prospects — would leave the Braves higher than 16th, which is mathematically in the lower half of all MLB clubs. But Law’s point about hitting, or the lack thereof, is telling. Of the non-pitchers among Baseball America’s Braves top 10, none are outfielders. (Four infielders, one catcher.)
Oh, and one thing more: Law has been hammering on the Braves’ drafts for a while now. He hated it when they took Mike Minor with the No. 7 overall pick in 2009, and apparently he wasn’t enthused about the subsequent drafts, either. All of which makes me wonder what he’d have made of the Hawks under Billy Knight.
By Mark Bradley
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212 comments Add your comment
NC Dawg
February 9th, 2012
10:07 am
First!
Rob
February 9th, 2012
10:12 am
We’ve graduated enough people in the last few years that this makes sense. I’d probably put us a little higher, but he’s right about us not having a single bat in the system who is guaranteed to stick in the MLB. Just having ridiculous pitching isn’t enough.
Aaron
February 9th, 2012
10:12 am
In his defense, all the major prospects the braves have are no longer prospects.
Heyward, Minor, Beachy, Freeman.
PMC
February 9th, 2012
10:15 am
again, they have lots of pitching and yet they keep drafting pitching.
No one in the organization seems to want to admit that they collectively suck behind the plate from the pro club to A ball.
They don’t seem to be able to find slugging anywhere.
Just Asking
February 9th, 2012
10:16 am
Mark, where do you rank them? Is that for the farm system as a whole or are there bright pots at AA or AAA?
BAMA dude
February 9th, 2012
10:17 am
So Law prefers the high risk/high reward draft picks over the safer bets that are more likely to bring returns sooner in the form of production or trade value. Good for him. I’d say a good mix is required, personally, and if I’m laying out first round money then risk management would certainly come into play.
Mark Bradley
February 9th, 2012
10:17 am
Teheran’s a bigger prospect than either Minor or Beachy. Just FYI.
Mark Bradley
February 9th, 2012
10:17 am
And kudos, NC Dawg.
PMC
February 9th, 2012
10:20 am
What it kind of tells you is that they expect to lose some good young pitchers so they are drafting guys closer to the majors so that they’ll hopefully be ready when they lose JJ, Hanson, Hudson etc. and they’ll still be able to compete, even though they’ll STILL be one of the worst hitting teams in the NL.
Jay Puskenalis
February 9th, 2012
10:21 am
Who is this guy Law? Never heard of him. Guess he doesn’t have much clout as a scribe wannabee. Sound bush to me, meat.
Mark Bradley
February 9th, 2012
10:21 am
We should stipulate: Pitching is the most important commodity in baseball. You can win a World Series with a team that hits .250 in a season. The Braves know. They did it in 1995.
Mark Bradley
February 9th, 2012
10:23 am
Keith Law, we should also stipulate, is one of the most recognized names when it comes to rating baseball prospects.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 9th, 2012
10:23 am
Drafting pitching is a good strategy since so many other teams have a hard time developing it, but that should be followed up by trading excess pitching for good hitters who can plug holes in the lineup.
Nebraska Brave
February 9th, 2012
10:24 am
hard to fathom that the Braves would drop that far in one year. Especially when the did relatively little during the trade deadline last year and even less this off season.
Michael
February 9th, 2012
10:25 am
1995 was a long time ago Mark. I think the game has changed since then. You’ve got to get people on and get them in now. It’s not enough to put all of the pressure on the arms to keep you in it, as we saw last year. When the arms gave out, there wasn’t anything left to keep the team going.
KornDawg
February 9th, 2012
10:27 am
So, what you’re saying is, when it comes to prospect evaluation, Keith’s word is Law?
Steve
February 9th, 2012
10:28 am
Braves will just get better and better each year while the Phillies get older and older. The future looks bright.
Big Crimson 75
February 9th, 2012
10:29 am
I think our Farm System is A-OK….We finished 1 – 2 in the ROY race last year!!
Hanson, Freeman, Kimbrel, Venters, Prado, Heyward, Beachy…………
Plus, we have a wealth of Pitching prospects.
Developing players is not the Braves biggest problem.
T-Bone
February 9th, 2012
10:29 am
MB, certainly pitching is a most important commodity, and yes the Braves won it all in 95 hitting .250. But pitching was the hallmark for all of those 90s — early 2000s teams and yet we still only won one WS.
Hankie Aron
February 9th, 2012
10:30 am
I”m with Najeh Davenpoop on this. You gotta trade some of the excess pitching which is why I’m not sure why Wren wasn’t able to trade some of the pitching this past winter.
Big Crimson 75
February 9th, 2012
10:30 am
Question I have……. Is Jayson Heyward gonna MAN-UP this year or what?
Hankie Aron
February 9th, 2012
10:34 am
I can understand not trading JJ or Hanson because of injury concerns but not trading even one of the younger pitchers (Mike Minor? Brandon Beachy?) to get a good outfield bat?. I wouldn’t trade Teheran or Vizcaino, certainly can understand that one.
jarvis
February 9th, 2012
10:34 am
MB, you speak of 1995 like it was yesterday….17 years my friend.
.
February 9th, 2012
10:35 am
Who is Keith Law??? Where has he been hiding? Never heard of him. What are his credentials? Was he a former Director of Scouting or or GM of a previous World Champion? Seriously, never heard of the guy.
jarvis
February 9th, 2012
10:35 am
That said, you point stands. Giants team two years ago was nuttin’ but pitching.
Maybe that would have been a more relevant example of your point.
gcs
February 9th, 2012
10:37 am
The reason they are so low is because all the Braves have is pitching. There are not too many position player prospects.
.
Mike
February 9th, 2012
10:39 am
The only question is hitting? Uh… Then how come we had 3 minor leaguers win their respective batting titles and J-Terd broke a Coastal League record for doubles. Whatever Mr. Law is smoking he better share.
Ralph
February 9th, 2012
10:39 am
I agree with the strategy of drafting pitchers, you can always trade pitchers for an established hitter, problem is the braves can’t afford to pay a established hitter so we continue to stockpile pitchers.
JoeFan
February 9th, 2012
10:40 am
Appears that the Braves scouting system is to blame if they they can’t identify quality position players with offensive capability out of all the draft choices they have available each year.
lanier
February 9th, 2012
10:42 am
so Mark why have the Braves been unable to develop young hitters?
Savvy
February 9th, 2012
10:42 am
Umm, 2010 SF Giants won with pitching. Worst hitting team (during the season) to make the playoffs.
Big Crimson 75
February 9th, 2012
10:42 am
….yeah I like drafting pitchers too, as long as they are not named Joey Devine!
tana
February 9th, 2012
10:44 am
Law does not count players who have lost their Rookie eligibility though. So Heyward, Kimbrel, Freeman all no longer count. And they were major factors added to the previous years. And I agree with him that our position players have big ?. If they continue to progress the way they are projected to then we will move up no doubt. But right now Pastornicky, Simmons, Bethancourt, Salcedo, Terdoslavich, and outfielders are developing….not much more than developing.
Hankie Aron
February 9th, 2012
10:44 am
I just know that if our guys don’t rebound with better years, Wren will have some “splaining” to do. Heyward will have to revert back to early 2010 form, Uggla has to play both halves of the season, Prado back to some semblance of his All-Star days. At least a little offense from Pastornicky maybe?. These guys are going to have to hit .250-.260 as a team and get strong pitching again because the rest of the East sans the Mets have gotten better. I mean look at what the Nationals and Marlins added.
Mark Bradley
February 9th, 2012
10:47 am
It is possible to pitch your way to a championship. It is not possible to hit your way there.
Ideally, you’d like to do both. But if you can only have one, it’s an easy choice.
CT Braves Fan
February 9th, 2012
10:48 am
It’s all white noise, just like the chatter on college football recruiting. I seem to recall all sorts of hype for guys like Brad Kominsk (”he’ll be worth 10 Dale Murhphys” LOL), Derek Lilliquist, etc…and the guy who was going to replace Chipper–his name is escaping me–he’s basically been a journeyman…anyway, as other posters have pointed out, all of the best prospects from recent years will be on the big team this year so of course the system will take a downgrade.
Hankie Aron
February 9th, 2012
10:48 am
I would feel better if we could have gotten a decent hitting outfielder like Josh Willingham or maybe Michael Cuddyer. That might soften the blow in case Heyward isn’t the same player he was before the thumb and the shoulder injuries.
Mark Bradley
February 9th, 2012
10:49 am
I’d also suggest that the Braves didn’t collapse in 2011 because they stopped hitting. They never really started hitting, and still they had the fourth-best record in baseball in late August. They collapsed because Hanson and Jurrjens got hurt and the bullpen — which had been stellar — finally wobbled.
Hankie Aron
February 9th, 2012
10:50 am
It just doens’t bode well for the Braves if in June we’re in third place and can’t hit anymore than last year.
CT Braves Fan
February 9th, 2012
10:51 am
Wes Helms! That’s who I was thinking of. Another over-hyped prospect.
PMC
February 9th, 2012
10:51 am
Indeed, but if you pitch your way there, most nights the club is going to be incredibly frustrating to watch if not incredibly boring.
1 run down will feel like 10. That was the 2011 Braves club.
Mark Bradley
February 9th, 2012
10:52 am
In my view, the Braves have played this offseason correctly. If Heyward and Prado and Uggla return to form, they’ll be fine. If they don’t, they can still go trade some of that young pitching for a hitter. But there was no need to part with those young pitchers until the Braves see what’s what.
PMC
February 9th, 2012
10:52 am
No one wants to pay to see guys lead the league in grounding into inning ending double plays with RISP.
Mark Bradley
February 9th, 2012
10:52 am
I don’t know that Wes Helms was ever a major prospect. He certainly wasn’t a Komminsk or a Freeman or even a Wilson Betemit.
PMC
February 9th, 2012
10:53 am
You are right though Mark, they have played this as well as they could have really.
PMC
February 9th, 2012
10:58 am
The problem could be that because this team has been so dreadful in the outfield for so long, they have put too much on guys like Francouer and Heyward to be saviors of the lineup.
Prado is an infielder for gosh sakes. This team does not value outfield production in the least. They simply aren’t interested in finding, drafting or paying for guys in the outfield who are interesting to watch.
How many teams have a catcher as essentially the best slugger in the lineup? 2nd basemen next?
We get NOTHING out of the outfield, and that’s been the case for years and years. When they won the WS in 1995, much better outfield than this one.
CT Braves Fan
February 9th, 2012
10:59 am
Mark, knowing what we know now–that they would only get to one more WS (in ‘99)–would you still make the trades in ‘97 that unloaded Justice and Dye and cleared salary to keep Maddux and Glavine? (maybe just keeping one of them instead?)
PMC
February 9th, 2012
10:59 am
It is very similar to Billy Knight when he WOULDN’T get a center and he refused to go get a point guard.
McClouth was the Speedy Claxton of center field.
Mark Bradley
February 9th, 2012
11:02 am
They only got to one more World Series — but they won nine more division titles. And I’m of the opinion that getting to the playoffs is a big deal: You can’t win the World Series if you’re not in the postseason.
Ask the Cardinals about that.
hawesg
February 9th, 2012
11:03 am
We passed on some good talent when we took Minor. Shelby Miller, Dan Wheeler, but the big one for me was Mike Trout. It would be awfully nice to have him in CF this year and for a while after.
GTT
February 9th, 2012
11:07 am
I rank about 52nd.
Big Crimson 75
February 9th, 2012
11:07 am
The Justice trade had nothing to do with $$$.
Dye was not part of the Justice trade & Dye was not making “BIG” $$ when the Braves traded him to KC.
The Braves traded Justice thinking it would improve their team. They went for Kenny Loftin, at the time the premier lead-off hitter in baseball, butt Loftin was not very good at all in Atlanta. He & Cox never seemed to mesh.
When the Braves traded Justice, they traded their Heart & Soul. They lost their swagger. The Team was never really the same. Yes, they continued to win, but having Justice on the team past 1996 could have meant 1 maybe 2 more titles — World Series Titles.
Walker, Texas Ranger
February 9th, 2012
11:08 am
I think his evaluation is about right, maybe a little low. If you consider pitching as 60% of the game and their minor league pitchers are the best yet the hitting is the worst, then they should grade out about 12th -14th. There is very little on the horizon as far a position players are concerned. I agree with Law on the Brave and college pitchers. The problem the Brave will run into is the same as the Hawks. They are just good enough to believe and to hang on to veterans instead of restocking the minors with the trade of veterans each June and July. Or even worse, we trade prospects for a rental player.
Walker, Texas Ranger
February 9th, 2012
11:10 am
I think the Dye deal was awful but I dont think he would have ever played for Cox.
GTT
February 9th, 2012
11:11 am
Some observers seem to think of a college guy as automatically not a good first round pick. Narrow minded.
extremus
February 9th, 2012
11:12 am
What I think many folks are realizing (but that sadly the Braves’ management doesn’t) is that having a glut of young starting pitching in your minor league system at the expense of any truly star-caliber Major League hitting prospects is simply a bad recipe. There are nine positions on the baseball field, and a starting pitcher goes out once every fifth or sixth day…do the math.
Are starting pitchers important? Absolutely, and without them we wouldn’t have been as good as we’ve been the past couple of seasons. But suddenly it’s hitting everyone that most of the big pitching prospects in the Braves’ system are facing a logjam situation because there are only so many Major League roster spots and some of them are having to languish at Gwinnett while they wait for their chance at a regular job (somewhere). And meanwhile, since Freddie Freeman there isn’t any position player in the Braves’ system who’s stirring up a buzz; Pastornicky has been graded by some analysts as “not Major League-ready”, which should be of some concern for a team handing the kid an everyday job. And he’s certainly not the only question mark among several players the Braves are hoping will have “bounce-back years”. There is no Plan B, folks.
Bottom line: while “you can’t have too much pitching”, the Braves have and are continuing to prove that you can have “an embarrassment of riches” in pitching talent and it won’t do you any good for the long haul if you don’t have and develop everyday position players who can hit. It takes nine men on the field, and it’s high time the Braves changed their “stockpile starting pitching” approach to minor league development to reflect that.
GovClintonTyree
February 9th, 2012
11:12 am
Law is wrong, as he often is. I remember hearing him eviscerate the Braves for the Minor pick. He was brutal. I expected a soft-tossing lefty that might remind me of Tom Browning at the end after reading Law’s write up. Then when he got to Atlanta, he was a tall power dude with a 94mph fastball and a hammer change (needed work on breaking ball). Spectacular miss. Not close.
The guy falls in love with his opinions, which he doesn’t research all that well, and then sticks to his guns well after he’s been proven wrong. He compared Freeman to Mark Grace, also. One swing off Roy Halladay in September 2010 that went further than any ball Mark Grace ever hit told me Law was wrong again. “Doubles power.” Wanna check back in five years and see if 20 year old Freddie, who was 6′ 4″, 240 at the time of Law’s driveby and hit 21 dingers in the show as a rook, doesn’t develop a little more? Betcha he will.
Law interviewed for a couple of scouting jobs in the industry this offseason. Didn’t get any of them.
So consider the source. It’s his opinion. He’s wrong. What he’s right about is that we need to develop some – alliteration alert! – offensive outfielders.
Trojan
February 9th, 2012
11:16 am
The Braves do seem to be getting cheap and thin in the minors.
Delbert D.
February 9th, 2012
11:17 am
He must be referring to the A and low-AA prospects.
extremus
February 9th, 2012
11:20 am
@GovClintonTyree,
Evaluating/comparing young talent is a very inexact science, and Law certainly wouldn’t be the first to make some bad assessments (though I think his harshness for the Braves’ system should at least be a wake-up call). I recall a Dodgers scout whose evaluation for a young center fielder went something like “Just so-so in center field”. The player’s name was Willie Mays. Funny how it’s the scout’s name I don’t remember.
Harry
February 9th, 2012
11:22 am
Keith Law is a napoleonic dwarf sabremetrician who contends that Freddie Freeman is not a good first baseman (offensively or defensively), so take his rankings with a grain of salt.
George Stein
February 9th, 2012
11:27 am
Biggest problem is, as Law says, that the Braves wouldn’t go over slot in the draft, which reduced the number of premium players they could draft.
That will change now that the new CBA mandates the money ahead of time, but it could mean less elite athletes will play baseball.
George Stein
February 9th, 2012
11:31 am
Freeman will almost certainly regress this season, Harry. He needs to take more walks, which he may with more experience. But his .339 BABIP is likely unsustainable.
Dean
February 9th, 2012
11:34 am
WE do need some bats but I’m of the thinking that we can trade some pitching for some hitting prospects. I also think pitching is more important but you absolutely have to have some run producers. The Cardinals never would have made the playoffs if not for Pujol’s return from injury.
Law’s Top 100: Manny B. is No. 23, M. Williams No. 34 – ESPN (blog) | Latest News
February 9th, 2012
11:39 am
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Kerryb
February 9th, 2012
11:42 am
Does he have the Phillies that traded all of their talent away for rental players ahead of us? I’m not going to pay to read any ESPN trash. Who is 1-15? The Braves have had a will have an flux of talent coming in the last two years and this year. It’s hard to maintain a top 5 farm system every year. Those good players have to come up sometime. With the talent that just came up the last two years the Braves are set for a while.
Law’s Top 100: Manny B. is No. 23, M. Williams No. 34 – ESPN (blog) | Rss News Desk | Daily News Magazine
February 9th, 2012
11:47 am
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Kangaroo Court
February 9th, 2012
11:52 am
Drafting baseball players is one of the most inexact sciences, on the planet. How many players have you seen get drafted high, and never make it, Then their are players like Mike Piazza who get drafted, in the last round. Then go on to become Hall of Fame players.
Cecil34
February 9th, 2012
11:56 am
I think Law’s assessment only confirms the statements made by McGuirk in Tim Tucker’s article a few days ago.
Liberty Media’s sole intent with this franchise is to turn a profit when sold. And at some point they will be sold.
Worst case, they want to at least break even.
I believe that every decision this organization makes only concerns profitability and there is not, I repeat, not, the same amount of emphasis on winning.
Thus the minor league system is a symptom if the bigger disease.
You can read it straight from McGuirk’s mouth.
Law’s Top 100: Manny B. is No. 23, M. Williams No. 34 – ESPN (blog) | Daily King News | Daily News Magazine
February 9th, 2012
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George Stein
February 9th, 2012
12:02 pm
He has Philadelphia ranked 25th, Kerryb.
dtanner
February 9th, 2012
12:15 pm
braves tend to overate their own guy’s,remember when they thought jordan schafer was gonna be a superstar,what a joke he turned out to be
Law’s Top 100: Manny B. is No. 23, M. Williams No. 34 – ESPN (blog) | Best News Feed - Daily News Magazine
February 9th, 2012
12:15 pm
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Sonny Clusters
February 9th, 2012
12:21 pm
Clusters was always good prognosticators when called on to prognosticate. We was thinking about the upcoming season and how those new uniforms and the change to deer meat hot dogs resulting in lower concessions prices may just make the difference for this organization. A power hitting corner outfielder would have been nice but with all the hugging and fanny patting this team does a really tough ballplayer like that is probably going to shy away. When Fredi Gonzalez says he can’t think of anything he’d change except maybe getting to the park a little earlier, he is saying he is unfit to manage this team going forward. Still, we’ll see him in the dugout tipping his cap and looking like a deer in the headlights (that’s two mentions of deer in one post). We was hoping the Braves will remember that they suffered an EPIC Collapse and shame on us if we don’t remind ‘em. Those silly little signs in the outfield need to come down. Those weren’t “Championships” any more than winning Miss Congeniality instead of Miss America. We say, never let ‘em forget and always remember Fredi kept sending Derek Lowe out there well after he checked out. Sad.
Chipper's ACL
February 9th, 2012
12:22 pm
I agree with Law. The shift has been made to draft college players. Years ago the thought process was to draft high school arms and develope. The last time this was done, 2008, the players drafted bombed. Numerous recent drafts have seen the Braves lose their first round pick due to bad free agent signings. The #18 pick in ‘08 due to the Glavine signing. The Angels picked Trout and Skaggs, now the top prospect with the D-Backs, by letting Tex walk. Now wasn’t that an awesome return for that mid season trade!! The signing of Wagner in ‘10 cost us the #20 pick. Look at the top OF prospects that were taken around that point in the draft. Granted Wags pitched well for his one season but Capps became available. The lack of patience and thought cost Wren on that one. So the opportunity has been there but management hasn’t reacted with good baseball smarts. Wren’s knee jerk reactions have deleted a once dominate farm system. Sure there is some talent on the farm but who has been drafted, signed, and developed by the Braves? A hand full.
And folks you ask why some of the younger pitchers aren’t traded? You have two pitchers that are represented by Boras. JJ and Hanson. Both will walk if not traded. Hudson is 37. Minor has not shown he can be counted on at the major league level. Vizcaino has elbow issues. Who knows how that will develope. So that leaves JT, Delgado, and hopes that Gilmartin developes. Just food for thought.
Bill
February 9th, 2012
12:35 pm
Don’t forget Lowe with the fall of the Braves last year….
great pitching will take you along way but without some hitting you’ll not win the big games-WS.(Reason..other teams also having good pitching plus hitting) It take both to tangle.
How long has it been since Braves had a good power hitting outfielder?
Law’s Top 100: Manny B. is No. 23, M. Williams No. 34 – ESPN (blog) | Just Top News – Daily News Magazine
February 9th, 2012
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Spelly McSpellerson
February 9th, 2012
12:35 pm
Antelope
Develop
Food for thought
1eyedJack
February 9th, 2012
12:37 pm
Since half your roster is pitchers it only makes sense to load up on good young pitching. I think that’s why if you follow the Brave’s draft strategy they always go for pitching in the early rounds. You might be able to teach a prospect how to be a better hitter, but you can’t teach a prospect how to throw 98 mph.
DetroitBraves
February 9th, 2012
12:39 pm
I asked Keith Law in a chat once if Gilmartin’s celining is similar to Minor – keeping in mind that Law’s never been high on Minor – and he answered that Gilmartin’s ceiling is much, much lower. That was also the impression I got from BP and Baseball America. At any rate, it’s quite likely some or all of Vizcaino, Teheran and Delgado will lose prospect status this season. If you don’t like being #16 probably shouldn’t read next year’s rankings.
Jimi
February 9th, 2012
12:39 pm
I must agree with Law. Whats there other than pitchers?
DetroitBraves
February 9th, 2012
12:47 pm
@Harry, it’s actually not true that Law doesn’t like Freeman. He just doesn’t think there is tremendous upside. Freeman appeared in his rankings while he still maintained prospect status. Someone above mentioned that projecting young players is an inexact science. That’s true. Just because Keith Law says a thing doesn’t make it so. But he was an assistant to the GM in Toronto for a while, and he did just recently turn down a front office job with the Astros. His opinion carries a lot of weight with actual baseball teams. The Braves haven’t been major financial players for some time. If they stop developing their own talent as well there are some seriously dark times on the horizon.
MatthewH
February 9th, 2012
12:47 pm
Even though 16 may be low, I beleive that the Braves are the highest ranked NL East team.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.
southern man
February 9th, 2012
12:48 pm
This does not suprise me . They let top personal man go to the nationals roy clark . he was the one bring in top talent. No one wants to work for new g. m. Dirty little secret
TruthSeeker
February 9th, 2012
12:50 pm
Some pretty sharp criticism from Law, but it’s hard to argue with it. The Braves’ farm system at the moment is heavily imbalanced. There’s very few hitters to be genuinely excited about. Pastornicky, Simmons and Lipka all have promise, but none are likely to be impact bats at the major league level. Simmons probably has the best shot out of those three. Bethancourt is more known for his skills behind the plate than for his bat at this point. Other than Terdoslavich, who’s turned some heads lately, there’s a disturbing lack of players in the system who could potentially become power hitters in the bigs.
Still, having said all that, I would think our sick pitching depth warrants us a spot in the top 10. Then again, I’m not an expert on the other 29 teams’ systems.
Sonny Clusters
February 9th, 2012
12:53 pm
Dan Uggla coming to town made this team fearsome until he took some at bats and we saw he was just not himself. And we wondered, why? Energy drainers are all about. After the All-Star break Uggla started hitting the ball and it reminds us of Herman Cain a little bit after his wife found out about some things that was going on. Ol’ Herman decided to quit the campaign and concentrate on his current job. In a way, that’s what happened to Uggla. That, and correcting some mechanics. And all those hugs for reinforcement from his teammates.
1eyedJack
February 9th, 2012
12:58 pm
Sonny, I take it you’re not too big on hugging, fanny patting, deer hunting, or cap tipping.
bvillebaron
February 9th, 2012
1:06 pm
Law continues to hammer away at the Braves for not paying above slot to get what he views as higher ceiling guys. That’s okay, but a lot of those “high ceiling” guys he falls in love with never pan out whereas as one of the other posters noted, “lower ceiling” guys like Minor are now pitching pretty well in the major leagues. He also claims that the Braves have had “less luck” on the international market. I guess Law missed Teheran and Delgado pitching for the Braves last year, Maybe he doesn’t think Bethancourt is a propsect either.
Finally, I saw one of those “low ceiling” guys that Law doesn’t apparently like, Terdoslovich, go 3 for 4 in the AFL All Star game, which included an absolutely crushed homer to dead center off of one of those “high ceiling” UCLA pitchers that Law loves who couldn’t even get out of the first inning.
You know the old saying about how opinions are like you know what and everyone has one. That includes Keith Law.
Ugueth
February 9th, 2012
1:06 pm
I used to listen to the ESPN baseball today podcast until they started being all pro northeast and Keith Law was brought on to cohost. Keith Law is such an arrogant j****** he clearly thinks he is better than everyone and acts that way. ESPN hates Atlanta and they constantly show it. While I agree with the hitters not being good and the lack of concern is a major problem this guy is not someone I would recommend paying much attention to. If he was so good as a scout then why is he an analyst and not working on a team somewhere?
Chipper's ACL
February 9th, 2012
1:07 pm
One last note I’ve heard numerous comments that Vizcaino will be in the pen this season. Might I ask why? Would you not want one of your top pitching prospect to develope as a starter if not for the Braves but for a higher return on a possible trade? It would be different if he were needed to close but that’s not the case.
kingdaddy
February 9th, 2012
1:11 pm
All we need to do is pay a decent hitting coach to teach the kids to hit. I think our coaching is more important for developing these kids. Natural hitters are rare. Find better hitting coaches and the kids will learn patience and to see the ball. It starts at the bottom -up. Front office, do your job.
C. Tampa Ironworse
February 9th, 2012
1:13 pm
Consider Law, Eric Karabell and Mark Simon are doing this work for ESPN. So dump truck of salt with anything they say. They’re SABR guys, not reality guys.
Sonny Clusters
February 9th, 2012
1:13 pm
“Sonny, I take it you’re not too big on hugging, fanny patting, deer hunting, or cap tipping.”
Yes, that is true. All, in some way contributed to the EPIC Collapse. Baseball is for purists. There’s no doilies in the dugout. It’s okay to spill something on the dugout floor. Spitting, scratching, adjusting, and such are expected. What we don’t expect is a bunch of hugging and fanny patting and sissy stuff like that from a major league team. When we see that (and we see them bragging about championships that aren’t championships) we get a little testy. When we see what we saw in September we wonder where the leadership is on the team? As for deer hunting and cap tipping . . . where has the deer hunting got us as far as a pennant or a WS? And all that cap tipping has to stop. If we was bald like Fredi we’d keep our cap on.
the truth...
February 9th, 2012
1:26 pm
So who cares what Law says………….?
Stinger2
February 9th, 2012
1:33 pm
I follow the Braves very closey and am pained by every loss.
However, I like most all fans know very little about the comparisons of farm systems. All we know is what we see on the field. Not a great team…medicore at best. The
management should be smart enough to find the solutions.
As of now, that has not happened. Fans can only hope all the “ifs” fall into place for the present rooster. Nothing was done so far in the off season to shore up the weak spots. The ifs are many including Pastornicky at SS, Heyward, Chipper Jones, and Prado.
Red Clay Hound
February 9th, 2012
1:36 pm
We was thinking Sonny needs his own column. His perspective is priceless.
AG
February 9th, 2012
1:36 pm
First, I just want to say that the Braves had one of the most EPIC collapses in baseball history (which is a long damn time) and they still won 89 games. Let’s not be so doom and gloom. Prado and McCann had down years and Heyward forgot how to hit. Lowe was in the rotation FAR too long as was Nate McLouth. No more Lowe and a full season of Bourn along with a deeper bullpen and we’re going to be in it all year.
Second, the Braves are not any good at drafting positional players. Betemit was mentioned earlier, Andy Marte was highly touted, Jordan Schafer, Saltalamacchia, that kid traded to the White Sox (any help?)… the list goes on. For as many failed position players as I can name, I can name as many pitching prospects who succeeded. Jason Schmidt, Neftali Feliz, Adam Wainwright are some of the more recent (I think we all know the ones from the past). The Braves had, in the past, needed to supplement their lineups via trade or free agency. Gallaraga, McGriff, Sheffield. Free agency has changed and put most of the top tier talent out of our price range… I just hope that Wren figures out which pitchers to hold onto, and which pitchers to trade for major league ready hitters.
Ralph
February 9th, 2012
1:38 pm
Mark, If you wanted to trade a top 10 pitching prospect for a top 10 position player (say a Julio Teheran for a Bryce Harper), which would have the most value?
Braves rooter
February 9th, 2012
1:45 pm
OMG, ESPN has never liked the Braves, why are you surprised. Here’s the thing, great pitching always beats great hitting, ALWAYS. So if the Braves are loaded with great pitching (which they are) who cares if they have a outfielder. That can be gotten via trade. Let ESPN love on the NY Yankees and the NY Mets. Oh yea, they love Philadelphia too. Anyone but the Braves right?
Mark (another one)
February 9th, 2012
1:46 pm
Middle of the pack is about right for the Braves. The question is really what are they doing about it? My guess is they believe C, 1st, 2nd, and RF are filled for the next few years with McCann, Freeman, Uggla and Heyword. The only questionmark in the group is McCann and his contract situation.
The need 3rd, SS, LF and CF, and they hope thats Terdoslavich, Pasternicky, Simmons and Lipka can fill those holes. I feel confident they will be able to field at the Major League level but someone needs to hit major league pitching (not AA).
We don’t hear too much about anyone else in the minors except the pitchers and Bethancort. That doesn’t mean we don’t have some propects but they aren’t gaining the recognition as prospects that Heyward, Freeman, McCann and Francour garnered. Notice that if we were counting on these four to fill four holes, we would have a gap.
I know I ignored Prado but I don’t see him as a power hitting LF or 3rd and I don’t think his defense is right for CF or SS. He is kind of a player without a position on this team.
bvillebaron
February 9th, 2012
1:46 pm
Stinger2:
Other than a right handed everyday LF and the uncertainty about Pastornicky, what are the Braves’ weak spots? I don’t happen to think that either Prado or Heyward is a “weak spot”. .
Bucky
February 9th, 2012
1:53 pm
Sonny Clusters for President! Dairy Queen can be your Headquarters!
Sonny Clusters
February 9th, 2012
1:56 pm
We was never one to be in politics because we are too honest and always say what we think. If we was looking at weak spots we’d wonder about the left side of the infield and up the middle because we don’t know what we’ve got at ss and we know all too well what we don’t have at 3B.
Sonny Clusters
February 9th, 2012
1:58 pm
When losing a ball in the lights and losing a game that would have put you in the playoffs, it is always smart to let the ball be one that is hit high, high, in the air and not one that is bouncing off the ground. That’s our opinion and we stick to it.
Gorilla Biscuit
February 9th, 2012
2:04 pm
No doubt we need a couple of gorillas at 3rd base and in left field. Mayhaps we could get a couple of them Bugs Bunny type ball crushers with a three day beard and a cigar hanging out of the side of their mouth.
Gorilla Biscuit
February 9th, 2012
2:05 pm
As long as Bugs ain’t pitchin’ against us.
Skeezix
February 9th, 2012
2:05 pm
The Braves farm system has produced a lot of talent over the last several years so I don’t know how it could be rated poor. I have zero information about what other teams’ farm systems are doing–it is enough just to try and keep up with the Braves prospects. Re: Law’s opinion on this, and maybe he is very good at rating farm systems, I would just say I really don’t care what he thinks. It seems to me that the Braves are doing a very solid job developing talent.
extremus
February 9th, 2012
3:03 pm
Cheer up, everyone; by my calculations the Braves (or some Atlanta pro team) should be due for another championship around, oh, the year 2025 or so. Wow, has it already been THAT long since 1995?
Rick James
February 9th, 2012
3:36 pm
Those that can do.Those that cant become critics,writers and analists..
Skeezix
February 9th, 2012
3:56 pm
The most exciting college basketball of the season was played last night, one of the best UNC/Duke games ever and the ajc web site has zero coverage of it.
Stinger2
February 9th, 2012
4:10 pm
bville baron: Heyward was a very week spot in 2011. He completely lost his swing and all his stats were way down from his rookie season. Prado also had a off year. My post
said that thes are “ifs” along with Pastornicky. The
meaning is that the Braves will be competitive if these players regain their 2010 form and if Pastornicky can be
a serviceable ML SS as a rookie. Other “ifs” are JJ and Hanson coming back from injuries that made them ineffective as starters in the second half of last year.
Chipper's ACL
February 9th, 2012
4:12 pm
Here’s some stats folks. Looking back at the drafts from 2006 to 2009 the Braves have produced 5 major league players out of their top 10 picks in each draft.
2006-1 Medlen in Rd 10
2007-2 Heyward and Freeman
2008-1 Kimbrel
2009-1 Minor
Thadsdad
February 9th, 2012
4:17 pm
It seems that season of a few years ago when the Braves, due to a rash of injuries, ended up pitching the equivalent of Moe,, Larry and Curly at the end of the season (Wren’s 1st as GM, if I recall) traumatized him and the organization. Since, the Braves have taken pitcher after pitcher in the draft, held on to pitcher after pitcher and have refused to include very few in any deals.
And it’s not like this team is a lock to do anything other than finish beneath the Phumblins and hope for a wild card berth.
Everybody has their locks, their no-doubts heading into a season. You know Pujols, Howard, Fielder, etc. are going to put up numbers. You know Halladay, Verlander, etc. are going to put up numbers.
The Braves?
Will Chipper play 120 games or 20? Will Pastornicky be in Triple-A in May? Will Uggla hit 30 homers and bat .210? Will Freeman catch Heyward Disease? Will Prado be the All-Star of 2010 or the black hole in the lineup of 2011? Will Bourn get on base, steal bases and then get stranded as he did for a couple of months last year? Will Heyward suffer from Heyward Disease? Will McCann tear up the NL for three months and then the DL for three more? As for pitching, who’s the stopper? Are Hudson, Jurrrjens and Hanson automatic when the game/season is on the line?
In fact, the only place the Braves are truly set is backup catcher.
Far too many questions to be sitting on so many prospects without making a move.
The Braves can talk about how they were the fourth best team in baseball in August of last year. But your record is your record, whether you win 75 games in a row at the start of the year or lose 75 in a row at the end.
Realistcially, this team could win 65 or 95 games. But I’m not exactly filled with optimism.
bro
February 9th, 2012
4:27 pm
I’d rate them low too. No bats in the minors and the only pitcher they can trade the Braves have to pay the other team to take him.
6-4-3 DP
February 9th, 2012
4:35 pm
The Braves have plenty of young pitchers that they would like to trade for a good bat…but who do you trade. It’s too big a gamble just to go out and make a trade. I like what Frank Wrenn is doing…wait a year or maybe half a season until you know for sure who is going to be a keeper and who you can trade. What the Braves have now..they are capable of holding their own until the time is right.
kingdaddy
February 9th, 2012
4:37 pm
According to some, we’ve already lost the season and don’t need to bother showing up. Philly had injuries so did St. Louie. How about lets play and see how everything shakes out before we give-up. We should be right in the thick of it. Other teams hate the Bravos because of our success. Don’t worry about what everyone else thinks. They don’t want us to win anyway.
Tybee Island
February 9th, 2012
4:52 pm
I don’t agree but I do feel we have slipped some.
for info on tybee island vacation rentals visit: http://www.sandysbytheshore.com
kirkinga
February 9th, 2012
4:56 pm
These rankings are hardly relevant given that we are in the offseason. Season after season the teams with money continue to find a package of prospects to go make a big trade or two. No matter where their farm system might rank in a given offseason, teams such as the Yankees, BoSox, ChiSox always seem to come up with attractive prospects. That tells me that there is more than just a bit of public relations and politics behind these rankings.
Like the Falcons, the Braves organization needs to update it’s offensive philosophy. Maybe “pop” isn’t the only offensive skill set we need? The Braves might want to find some better athletes to man positions and coach them up as they do so well with pitching prospects. I think the playoffs demonstrated that there is great use for “explosive” playmakers in baseball as in most other sports.
Law-yer
February 9th, 2012
4:58 pm
Law……………A washed up writer who lies as much as a 2-bit lawyer!
AGTFan
February 9th, 2012
4:59 pm
By my count Law has built exactly 0 winning teams in baseball. I’m not concerned. His baseball IQ isn’t much higher than most of the football fans that post on this blog.
Law-He-Haw
February 9th, 2012
5:14 pm
Law doesn’t like Minor………..Well Then I accuse Law of a Wasted Life cause he doesn’t know his azz from a hole in the ground!
Law's Brain is Slaw!
February 9th, 2012
5:18 pm
ESPN should drug test it’s writers because some of their writer’s Brain’s are Definitely Fried!
The Law
February 9th, 2012
5:21 pm
I don’t put much stock in Law’s REPORT due to the fact that he is a disgruntled MET’S FAN!
2012 Preseason Fulmer Cup Champs
February 9th, 2012
5:21 pm
“Law ranks the Braves’ farm system pretty darn low”
Well considering the Braves are a team of postseason collapse….
Hey ATL, how many titles do the Braves have?
ONE
2012 Preseason Fulmer Cup Champs
February 9th, 2012
5:22 pm
“ESPN should drug test it’s writers because some of their writer’s Brain’s are Definitely Fried!”
Can’t remember the last time a Braves farm player led them to a WS title.
2012 Preseason Fulmer Cup Champs
February 9th, 2012
5:22 pm
Bring back John Rocker.
Train Wreck Bystander
February 9th, 2012
5:27 pm
Having a surplus of good farm pitching is not a disadvantage.
Not being able to trade that surplus for good hitting, however, is damning.
cowdogit
February 9th, 2012
5:32 pm
After the braves pathetic performance last September, no one in the braves organization has much value.
ATLcracker
February 9th, 2012
5:33 pm
Where would the Braves rank if you looked at players 21 years old and younger? Majors and Minors.
Stinger2
February 9th, 2012
5:37 pm
I don`t think it matters where Law ranks the Braves farm system. The Braves farm system is the least of their problems. They need to get players from other sources than just the farm system to be competitive in the NL East. Signing free agents and making trades to strengthen the holes are as important as having a strong farm system.
The Braves have not done anything of substance to trade or sigh FA to help the club since the collapse in September.
Sonny Clusters
February 9th, 2012
5:58 pm
How about Constanza? Will he get a chance to play? The team was on fire when he was introduced to the lineup. Of course, somebody told Fredi to play Heyward and we all know how that turned out. Can you imagine such a collapse? In commemoration of last season Chipper should name his next child uh, EPIC.
Sonny Clusters
February 9th, 2012
6:00 pm
How about a little sign out in the outfield that says, EPIC 2011. That would be a reminder.
kingdaddy
February 9th, 2012
6:00 pm
Mr. Law hasn’t had anyone talk aboutl him like this since, well never. Badmouth an orginazation like the Braves and you get notoriety in the ESPN media. What’s so funny is all the losers who are so willing to agree Sao they can act like they know something. The Braves will compete this year and our farm will continue to produce quality players. Throw in a couple of well-placed free-agents and we’ll be competitive. Oh yeah,Tybee is nice, but parking and the police have a lot to be desired. Speed-trap…
kingdaddy
February 9th, 2012
6:14 pm
I love this blog and I’m glad ba$eball is back. Everyone criticising the Braves needs to lighten up. Got anything construtive to say without tearing the team apart. ,go ahead. Maybe the Braves aren’t Mr.Laws cup of tea. Play Ball.
IlliniBrave
February 9th, 2012
6:32 pm
I too respect Kieth Law and enjoy his columns. But the guy is only one person – and this is an inexact science. Using the Braves only, here are some of Law’s failed predictions:
Kimbrel – not in Top 100 Prospect Rankings in 2011 – won Rookie of the Year
Heyward – ranked #1 Prospect in 2010 – did well that yr but tanked this yr
Freddie Freeman – ranked 43 in 2011 – runner-up ROY over many other more highly ranked players
Brandon Beachy – not ranked in 2011 – made starting rotation this yr and arguably the 3rd best pitcher on the staff.
I take what Law and every other “expert” says with a huge grain of salt.
Derek
February 9th, 2012
6:43 pm
I agree with Law’s assessment, though some of our hitters are coming up in AA-ball. Terdoslavich looks like he could be something special, I hope. I’m hoping Simmons will be a better version of Elvis Andrus (very good def, disciplined speed, contact hitter). Fact is, the last couple of years we haven’t had a lot of draft picks. That should change if we lose some free agents (Bourn), possibly McCann in a couple of years.
Wink
February 9th, 2012
6:59 pm
@MB They collapsed because Hanson and Jurrjens got hurt and the bullpen — which had been stellar — finally wobbled.
No they collaped because Gonzalex went away from the Bourne & Constanza running game too early. Once Chipper & Prado were stuck back in the line up and took away the running game. Gonzalez had Constanza batting 9th to get more speed and it was working. If Chipper & Prado had stayed out just another week our bullpen would have been resting those last 2 or three games, since we would have needed only 2 more victories. It still would have been a momumental collapse but we would have made the playoffs.
Same scenario is playing out with the Hawks. Hinrich got hurt during last season during the playoffs. As soon as he got healthy he was immediately inserted back into the lineup. Pargo & Green were adding a lot of punch and tempo off our bench, since his return the we have been mediocre at best.
Nothing against Chipper, Prado or Hinrich, but just because a player is a starter, you should ease them back into the lineup, if your team is currently winning without them. If they fail to produce immediately, immediately you should go back to what was working. Further, if Jurgen could pitch the day we got eliminated in minors, then why could he have not pitch last game of season instead of Lowe…who actually is getting all the scapegoat treatment because of his win loss record, but he gave you over 200+ innings!!1
Further, time proved that Prado was not the player he was last year, same with Chipper, as he only played part time, and Hinrich is getting in shape on the job at the expense of TEAM PRODUCTIVITY! That is why the Braves crashed player reputation & salary got in the way of TEAM PRODUCTIVITY
Bill
February 9th, 2012
7:01 pm
Who cares what ESPN (Eastern Sports Network) thinks…. If your not from the NE they don’t care anyway. I don’t even watch their TV programming anymore they are so bias.
bob
February 9th, 2012
7:09 pm
So who is on the rest of the list? I refuse to purchase their insider service since their free stuff is usually crappy enough, if the mets are ahead of them then the writer is high, but I still feel the braves are in the top 10 at least. They do need to concentrate on other positions other than just pitching though, but then they have always traded their top position players and kept pitching.
banned_schemula
February 9th, 2012
7:17 pm
The main problem the Braves have is the situation with Dan Uggla. They reacted emotionally, and gave Uggla to Fredi as show of good faith. We support you. Thing is… we had an all-star second baseman who is now positionally homeless. With Uggla’s money in the bank, Prado at 2b and Chipper and Infante at 3rd base… we would not be so hamstrung. I like Uggla ok within reason, but… he was just not the right pick-up as the team is constructed. We almost have to trade Prado for someone like Charlie Blackmon, not because it’s a great trade, but because we screwed Prado by sticking Uggla at 2b and he’s just not a LF in the field or at the plate…
phil
February 9th, 2012
8:11 pm
Big Crimson 75
February 9th, 2012
10:30 am
Question I have……. Is Jayson Heyward gonna MAN-UP this year or what?
*******
not likely.
And fire FG!!
Steve
February 9th, 2012
8:21 pm
The Problem with Keith Law is that he is still ranking systems based on the 80’s and 90’s version of baseball. In those decades the majority (not all, but the majority) of the best players went from High School straight into the draft. Even after four years in college most of the college players were equivalent to possibly Low-A players in the minors, where most 2nd year high school guys were already at.
In other words, college ball wasted three years of the development cycle of middle tier players who simply could not afford to not get the most out of every developmental season.
College players are MUCH better than those of past decades. Fewer and fewer players jump straight into the draft from High School. Mike Minor has nearly as good of stuff as Glavine or Avery but just needs polish and he could easily become a #3 starter. Let’s put it this way, at this age his stuff is BETTER than Cliff Lee’s was. If you told me two years ago we are taking a guy with our number one pick that has better stuff than Cliff Lee and probably had a basement of a #5 starter I would have jumped all over it. That is a very good reward plateau versus the small risk involved.
Unfortunately, Law has not changed his thinking. He absolutely HATES any college player drafted. Yes, the Braves might have gone with a high-schooler that would be close to hitting the majors in 4-5 years and only be controllable for a couple of major league seasons .. and yes, the upside might have been higher .. but the risk v reward is much worse .. and we all know the Braves chose to continually cycle through prospects rather than dish out the big bucks to keep them.
For the Braves needs, college players are closer to being ready and usually not as big of a risk to fail. Couple that with the fact the Braves can’t wait too long for talent to develop while years of control dwindle and it’s obvious the Braves MUST change their approach from the 80’s and 90’s when Ted Turner had them in the top 5 in spending continually. I thnk the Braves front office has done a great job drafting Minor and I also think Gilmartin will be a solid starter for years. Maybe not aces, but how I read an article that 26 out of 30 high school players drafted in the first two rounds NEVER make the SHOW. NEVER! That’s a big risk. I realize college players aren’t much better of a percentage, but at least they usually make the SHOW.
Now, all this love for the Braves drafts aside .. we need position players in the minors badly. We don’t have a single OF that is anywhere near Major League ready. In fact, we don’t even have an OF in our system that another system would be interested in. Second base .. nothing. First base .. nothing. Catcher .. good. SS .. good. 3B, JoeT is a one year wonder that we have to wait and see if he can continue. I understand position players are not as valuable, but we avoid them like the plague. We need to sprinkle a few more in. Heyward has been about it since Chipper. I don’t have a list handy, but it’s been almost that bad.
ESPN? They've proven they know NOTHING !
February 9th, 2012
8:44 pm
I don’t know any sports outlet more consistently wrong about most topics then the boys at Bristol.
They’ve become anointed as the leaders in sports, and they did the anointing.
Btw, did I read that Freeman has gotten all muscular in the offseason? Was last year not good enough? Did he not see what happened to Heyward and Francouer when they got bulky? Surely the info is erroneous and surely the Braves would be smart enough to tell him NOT to do that. He needs quickness and agility at first base much more than a right fielder needs it.
Sonny Clusters…..you are dead on about knowing what we DON’T have at third. I have said it before, Chipper is a dead lock Hall of Famer. So was Brooks Robinson, and I don’t want Brooks playing third for us, either. At the very least Chip should restructure his deal to give the team some
purchasing power during the season when people get hurt….like Chipper.
Disgusted
February 9th, 2012
8:59 pm
Until we see some real development of the everyday players in the A level, the rating might be fairer than local fans would like to think.
Farm system ratings change from yr to year and guys like Salcedo might be stud hitters down the road but have a long way to go.
I hope that Freeman does not “bulk up” too much. We say what that did to Heyward and it did not do much for Francoeur, who went through three yrs of mediocrity& took a couple more stops to mature as a player & find his game.
I am not really sold on Minor either, we could have done better with that pick, but he was signable. And that is what we will live with as long as Liberty Media is around.
Steve
February 9th, 2012
10:56 pm
Frank Wren’s tenure needs to be over.
Who Cares
February 9th, 2012
11:21 pm
ESPN doesn’t know anything. They only know how to dead a story to death and make up headlines to increase viewership.
Who Cares
February 9th, 2012
11:22 pm
ESPN doesn’t know anything. They only know how to beat a story to death and make up headlines and “stories” to increase viewership.
Who Me?
February 9th, 2012
11:30 pm
IMO, This team doesn’t have the bench depth or the hitting to carry it when the pitching hits the wall this year, as it inevitably will. We are NOT a balanced club, everyone and their brother knows we’re pitching heavy. Freddi has to quit coaching in Bobby’s shadow and develop his own leadership style instead of trying to replicate Bobby Cox’ decision making and coaching philosophy day in and day out.
Liberty Media is just like the Atlanta Spirit Group in terms of team ownership. The only real team ownership we have in this city anymore is Arthur Blank. Somebody please please find a way to get him to stroke a check to Liberty Media….
kingdaddy
February 10th, 2012
12:16 am
Its the front office that pulls the trigger at the draft. We’ve needed to pay more attention to our position players for a couple of years now. Hitting coaches in the lower divisions are not doing their jobs. Start with better hitting coaches. Better to invest in the orginazation than give up the farm for free-agents with no loyalty. Front Office can’t see the big picture. Hey Chipper,give up some of that love the Braves have shown you as a good-will gesture. Nobody wants to say it cause we do love and respect you but your salary severely cuts their options ,especially if you get hurt again. Love to watch you play, hate it when you sit. You make too much to be hurt. How about a trade to AL for a hand full of good prospects?
Had enough
February 10th, 2012
1:06 am
Where are the future rbi producers.THE POWER HITTERS.
banned_schemula
February 10th, 2012
2:03 am
We grow pitchers ok, and that keeps the team semi-interesting. But we sign Raul Mondesi, Rick Ankiel, Garret Anderson, Troy Glaus, etc to play significant games, and it just hasn’t worked out. When We do throw down on a bat, he’s a career .265 hitter who is a tree stump in the field defensively, oh, and he was ALREADY 31 when we got him, so, little upside and more than likely creeping decline.
Bourne was a nice pickup, and it will be great to have him for a whole season before he moves on. During the collapse, it seemed like he was the only one with the determined hustle step. I hope we can get him for a 3 year deal after this year. He’s 29 this year.
The Padres got Yonder Alonzo for Mat Latos. Sure, he’s a total clod in LF, but… he’s 25 and a masher. I just don’t see the Braves even trying to make moves like that.
I’m just so mad about this Uggla thing. $60m for a one dimensional 31 year old when we had an all-star 2b in Prado who is a trooper for playing LF, but, he’s just not a LF in the field or at the plate.
all for one.....
February 10th, 2012
2:09 am
l agree with Mr. Law. l am a draftnik. The Braves drafts have been miserably bad. We are not getting enough positive results. We need some true offensive punch infused soon. If Heyward fails and Freeman regresses, ouch. We would be pathetic. Draft someone who can hit. Dont even draft a pitcher next year. Let the system absorb the pitchers we have now. We are Weaklings with the stick. Show me offense. Heck show me defense. Our pitching better be as great as advertised or l am jumping off as a Braves fan. Win now. Just win daggum it.
all for one.....
February 10th, 2012
2:19 am
Can anyone say Pape Sy. OMG. Sickening. Braves, Hawks and Falcons need to vastly improve their player personnel and drafting. Just win baby.
Kevin Chop
February 10th, 2012
2:30 am
Banned, your def right about Bourne. He goes hard every game and I wish we had more players just like him.
Reason
February 10th, 2012
5:36 am
The only thing that is law is that day in April, when you hear these famous words “Play Ball!.” flush everything else said, down the toilet.
DetroitBraves
February 10th, 2012
7:09 am
I hope I’m right but I don’t think it’s that the Braves don’t realize they’ve been taking safe, fairly uninspiring picks in the draft. They just don’t want to spend. They don’t spend in free agency (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing) and they don’t spend for top talent in the draft (which is a bad thing). So I don’t know where they go from here. Maybe the answer is new ownership.
Big Al
February 10th, 2012
7:33 am
I hope you did not strain yourself with that long and in depth article.
Savannah Bombers
February 10th, 2012
9:00 am
The game HAS NOT changed that much. You need great pitching and great hitting and great defense but my opinion is the team that can still be effective while playing hurt is the team that wins. We do not know what goes on behind closed doors or in those dugouts but even if a player is getting paid a lot of money, they still have to battle their attitudes and emotions. A team or player with weak minds on winning are the ones that finish out of First Place. The Braves had injuries last Fall but the people in Management allowed a complacency to creep into the dugout. It was also the fault of the veterans on the team, not just the Coaches. The Braves have plenty of Skill. It’s Leadership and Motivation that needs to be addressed.
SawThat1nce
February 10th, 2012
9:10 am
Things will be a lot better for the Braves this season.
Mr. Thomas Anthony Jones, SR
February 10th, 2012
9:26 am
The Braves are overrated by everyone. Last year is an example of how sorry the Braves really are. They are a total disaster
Ted
February 10th, 2012
10:09 am
Please. Keith Law is a moron. The only reason he is “recognized” is because he writes for ESPN – not because he’s some special evaluator for talent.
As the adage goes – those than can do; those that cannot teach (or write). Keith Law writes because he failed to do while spending 4.5 years with a mediocre organization.
I mean, if you need further proof, go look at his past lists and compare them to lists generated by people who have a clue (e.g. Baseball America). His “work” speaks for itself.
For example, in 2008, here are the players in Law’s Top 50 that were nowhere on BA’s Top 100 (Michael Main, No. 46 and German Duran, No. 48) or were at least 40 spots lower (Desmond Jennings, No. 11 vs. 59, Carlos Truinfel, No. 18 vs. 62, Taylor Teagarden, No. 40 vs. 80 and Nolan Reimold, No. 39 vs. 91). If that isn’t a who’s who of garbage, I don’t know what to say.
Conversely, here are the players in BA’s top 50 that were not on Law’s list (Gio Gonzalez, No. 26, Brett Anderson, No. 36 and Jair Jurrjens, No. 49). Now tell me who knows “elite” talent better. In fact, just go through both lists’ Top 50 and look at the pool of players Law ranks at least 10 spots higher (guys like Fernando Martinez, Angel Villalona, Jose Tabata, Lars Anderson, Josh Vitters, Daric Barton, Carlos Gomez, etc.) and compare to the pool he ranks at least 10 spots lower (guys like Joey Votto, Elvis Andrus, Carlos Gonzalez, etc.).
Now this isn’t to say Law got nothing right – but even the blind squirrel can find the occasional nut. However, as a whole, it is clear that BA knows a heck of a lot more than Keith Law when it comes to scouting and the only reason the latter is held out as some “expert” is because he writes for ESPN. Eric Karabell is ESPN’s fantasy “expert” yet has never won any kind of league to justify that title. Heck, Jim Bowden is also a writer for ESPN – and all he proved is that he was great at running a scheme for kick-backs of international bonus money. And Steve Phillips worked for ESPN. And . . . need I go on?
So take Keith Law’s rankings with a MASSIVE grain of salt. He’s a know nothing person who is just throwing crap against a wall. I could go create a Top 100 list and it would end up being a heck of a lot more accurate than Law’s – because mine would be culled from opinions from various credible sources who actually know what they are talking about.
Ken Stallings
February 10th, 2012
10:43 am
Ted, masterful analysis!
It has reached a point where ESPN owns so much of the sports media world that if they say something then it must be right. There is another entertainment titan who operates a bit that same way — Disney.
Hmmm….
Floyd
February 10th, 2012
10:46 am
I don’t believe Law’s assessment speaks to the Braves’ strategy of drafting pitching, first and foremost, which can later be traded for position players at the major league level. Nothing is more valuable than pitching. Nothing.
That being said, I’m going out on a bit of a limb here because I’m ASSUMING that’s Atlanta’s strategy. Because, thus far, the Braves have not opted to trade any pitching to fill some obvious holes in the lineup. But you have to think that day is soon coming….there are only five spots in the rotation, after all, and even the departure of Derek Lowe leaves Jurrjens, Hanson, Beachy, Hudson, Delgado, Teheran, Vizcaino and Minor – all of whom appear ready to enter the major league rotation. Presumably, there are a couple of guys at the Triple-A level who have some trade value, as well.
Given the fact most major league teams struggle to put more than three solid starters in the rotation, the Braves look like gluttons when it comes to starters. Time to ship somebody for a solid bat and challenge a Phillies team that’s starting to show its age.
steve
February 10th, 2012
10:59 am
It all starts with good pitching, no reason why they cannot find a good hitter or two to trade for as all teams need decent starting pitching.
coach joe
February 10th, 2012
11:10 am
As per USAA today, the Braves are stuck with a bad 25 year media/TV deal which is going to inhibit the revenue stream for YEARS.. We are going to fall further behind the Base ball haves and our picks will get worse in the future. NO money no good picks to commit to sign..
Arthur
February 10th, 2012
11:21 am
When Mr. Turner owned the Brave we got Maddox. Who wanted Maddox? Everyone. When Mr. Turner was the owner we got McGriff. Who wanted McGriff ? Everyone. The Braves will have so so teams until we get a new owner such as Mr. Blank, Mr. Turner, Mr Marcus who has the money and the nerve to go after top talent. Until them we will be stuck in 2nd or 3rd place in the N> East.
Hope I am wrong, but do not think so.
Robert
February 10th, 2012
11:29 am
“But pitching was the hallmark for all of those 90s — early 2000s teams and yet we still only won one WS”
Winning a WS with a team that hits .250 is one thing. Winning a WS with a team managed by Bobby Cox is far more difficult. I think a team that hits. .050 has a better chance of winning the WS than a team managed by Bobby Cox
Fols
February 10th, 2012
11:51 am
Braves management put a very good team together last season. You can cry about the lack of spending all you want and ask for McGriff back but this is not on managment.
Prado, Uggla’s two month start, BMAC & Chip both not showing much power, Heyward collapse, Gonzo holding a bat……..these are guys that they put in there to win and they didn’t come through. These are guys that had good to great seasons the year before and there was little reason to believe they’d do so poorly for an entire years worth of stats.
Quit blaming the pen and paper…..players have a bat in their hand, they are professionals, they can start hitting the ball on a more consistant basis.
Ownership has the pieces to do the same this year without the Lowe and Gonzo goats. It’s up the players now, hit the dam ball.
vesaversa
February 10th, 2012
11:53 am
I disagree with law on the Braves pitching they hold some of the best young prospects in MLB . But i am concern that the Braves doesn’t seam to draft hitter’s as they should .
Fols
February 10th, 2012
12:05 pm
I don’t want anyone stealing my idea but this is simply ‘Moneyball’ material!
Teams should focus on ONE of the THREE. Learn to draft either pitching, outfield or infield. Do it well, raise them, teach them, baby those prospects. Make other teams want them because you have a surplus.
Braves do well at pitching. The suplus gives you trade material for one of the other two. Focus on that…..infield. Braves stink at the outfield……boom, that’s your full on position of free agency.
One you draft
One you trade
One you buy
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
February 10th, 2012
12:15 pm
I wouldn’t worry or lose sleep over what Keith Law thinks about the Braves farm system. I like it just fine as we are stock full of pitching prospects.
Jay Dubu
February 10th, 2012
12:26 pm
I kinda agree with Law on Minor. Beachy, who came out of no where beat him out for the 5th spot last year, and appears to be a better overall pitcher.
The advantage that Minor has is that he’s a lefty, and the Braves are looking for a lefty starter.
B-Fan
February 10th, 2012
12:31 pm
I’ll take the Braves’ young pitching over what Keith Law has to say.
ExBraves Fan
February 10th, 2012
12:57 pm
Its simple. Very simple. Get used too it. This ain’t your big spend, big dollars, Ted Turner Braves any more. They are now the Oakland A’s, penny pinchers of the NL. Heck, even the sorry Pirates are out there TRYING to do something to improve their team. The Braves??? They are HOPING, HOPING mind you, that their players who bombed last year, can come back to some what decent seasons this year. Their entire season is based on HOPE!!! Sounds like some other guy who’s hope hasn’t exactly worke out like he thought it would. What the heck, maybe he will give the Braves federal disaster relief money for the disaster of a front office they have.
Jay Dubu
February 10th, 2012
1:05 pm
@coach joe
The Braves were way ahead of the curve with the revenue stream opportunity when they were on TBS. Other teams realized that you have to have your own outlet, or an exclusive deal to get your games to it’s fans, and the amount of income that can generate.
The Yanks, Mets, Red Sox, Dodgers, Cubs, Angels, etc are poised to make hundreds of millions, while the Braves are stuck in a 25 year deal that pays them chump change (in terms of baseball broadcast revenue).
The Braves became America’s Team by being carried on TBS. They have all of the Southeast (7+ states) as their fan base, and you have to flip through multiple channels to find their games.
Someone, maybe multiple people, in the Braves front Office should have been replaced for the TV deal that is now in place.
Bobo is Not the Problem
February 10th, 2012
1:24 pm
The Braves seem to specialize in one-season wonders, with Francoeur and Heyward at the top of that list. We’ll see about Freeman and Kimbrell. However, they have not turned out a proliferation of major-league talent as would be expected from their high minor league rankings in the past. 16th may be about right based on past performance, anyway.
BravesFanSince80's
February 10th, 2012
1:24 pm
Oh my God! we passed on Mike Trout to take Mike Minor?????????????????????Strike 1001 Frank Wren, you incompetent hack!
Bobo is Not the Problem
February 10th, 2012
1:26 pm
Fols, if it’s all up to the players, why do you think some teams like the Cards seemed to overachieve last year? Just blind luck? Should we not even try to evaluate GM’s because it’s all “up to the players”?
BravesFanSince80's
February 10th, 2012
1:47 pm
there’s an Australian baseball game on MLB network right now, talk about weird, they show pitch speed in kilometers/hour. the pitcher just threw one 146 km/hr:)
Jefferson
February 10th, 2012
3:06 pm
We should stipulate: Pitching is the most important commodity in baseball. You can win a World Series with a team that hits .250 in a season. The Braves know. They did it in 1995.
That team also had HR hitters like McGriff, Justice, Jones, etc. This team is a lil lack in pop. Hopefully some players rebound and the end result is better this year
Mister Frisky
February 10th, 2012
3:16 pm
I’m not surprised.Everyday line up average at best.Why should the farm be any different.I almost forgot.4th place.
Braves Fan Since 1966
February 10th, 2012
3:28 pm
It’s still hard to believe that the Braves are still owned by Liberty Forgot-their-last-name. They just keep on acting like very poor and uninvolved MLB franchise owners and Braves management just keeps on defending them (as if they really have a choice). Not suggesting that we need to spend foolishly but am beginning to see more and more articles about who we may be able to keep and who we might need to eject over pay. To me, baseball teams should be owned by people who can afford to lose money each year in return for the increase in franchise value. These rich guys should be committed to the City and to winning. Will use Falcons ownership as an example despite the troubles that the Falcons have in the playoffs.
danny
February 10th, 2012
4:01 pm
Keith Law…hmmm, i remember him being a GM of which team? Oh that’s right he never was. He worked in the front office for the blue jays…says alot that he’s now a writer for ESPN.
Let’s not forget Peter King placed the Chargers and the Falcons in the Super Bowl. SD missed the playoffs and falcons may as well missed them too.
His comments are akin to weather channel reports.
Heyward Still A ZERO, an Unknown
February 10th, 2012
4:01 pm
If Heyward has another year like he did last year, he needs to be flushed down the toilet……he went from Hero to ZERO in ninety to nothing flat……what a sissy waste!
BartBuzz
February 10th, 2012
4:32 pm
Mark…you never said where you would rank the Braves farm system.
bvillebaron
February 10th, 2012
4:55 pm
Bobo:
Uh, I trust you are aware that Heyward finished second in the NL rookie of the year balloting in 2010 and Kimbrel and Freeman finished 1 and 2.
KK
February 10th, 2012
5:14 pm
Tim Hudson’s probably our most consistant hitter
BBILLEBARON
February 10th, 2012
5:40 pm
Heyward is a one season wonder and a BIG ZERO right now…….with Gimper Jones in the lineup we ought to be able to fill out disability pay for this sorry team!
Sunny Clusterfork
February 10th, 2012
5:40 pm
We was thinking it was epic – EPIC – the way me and Stinky Wintes and them deer hunters was fanny patting and hugging at the Dairy Queen last season. EPIC.
wins-by-a-link
February 10th, 2012
5:43 pm
Its simple, Liberty Media has the Braves organization on a bread and water diet, No meat, Look for a slip in standings for the Braves as other teams in NL East continue to improve thier rosters while FW has to make do with a bare bones budget, The Braves will never win another championship as long as Liberty owns the Braves.
Disgusted
February 10th, 2012
6:38 pm
Its not untinkable that the Braves will be in the bottom third of payroll by mid decade.
That TV deal stinks and ATL is not the kind of town that is going to sell out to support garbage.
I could see the gate dropping down to 1.8 or 1.9 million if things do not go right and that will make it worse.
I don’t worry about Law’s ratings, but where are the up and comming prospects for the lineup??? They are not ready yet, and we do not know if they are good enough yet.
I am not so sure on Minor or Vizcaino, there are things about them that need improvement. These young pitchers will go througgh a learning curve and that can be painful.
JJ, Hudson and Hanson better be healthy and right or else….
BRAVESFAN
February 10th, 2012
6:39 pm
Keith Law sounds like he knows what he’s talking about…until he talks about the players you know.
Non-yellow Journalist
February 10th, 2012
7:36 pm
It’s been well known through the years that ESPN analysts do not like the Braves organization, and it’s wide spread accross their network. They barely even cover them period. ESPN is turning into a bunch of thugs.
Non-yellow Journalist
February 10th, 2012
7:39 pm
It does seem since Leo Mazzone left that Braves pitchers have spent double time on the disabled list. I do not think this is by mistake. Roger and Perez need to rotate the bullpen activity a little better to keep the arms fresh.
Klaus
February 10th, 2012
8:33 pm
Cecil34 great post. GovClinton – Law is right more than blog participants. The Braves farm system is fairly one dimensional and that dimension is all about pitching.
Couple that with a disinterested corporation and spotty offense and you have a team that is good at hanging around but will win very little come Oct.
Klaus
February 10th, 2012
8:51 pm
All fans fall in love with their prospects even against their own better judgement. ATL is no different.
Minor is good not great so far. He cannot pitch past the 5-6th inning and has not sniffed 200+ innings.
In fact name one Braves home grown starter (braves drafted pitcher not a trade guy) that has regularly pitched 200+ innings each year with a winning record.
You have to go back to Glavine or maybe Smotlz during his prime as a starter. No one after these two (Smoltz was picked up in a trade with Detroit btw) has done the above. If you look at the teams that win WS of late that have at least one if not two starters that pitch 200+ innings with a winning record (not talking about 4-5th starter fodder but 1-2, 2A guys).
So while we crow about Braves “pitching” it really is trading on the name built in the 90s b/c 2000s era Braves home grown & drafted pitching talent has proven very little in the durability or win department.
Hudson has been their best over all pitcher games 1 to 162 for the past 5+ years not guys they are drafting.
Until any of the Minor or Teheran’s pan out they are just prospects from a machine that has failed to produce a Glavine, Smoltz or Avery in over a decade.
Having said that and looking at their track record in drafting and producing elite pitchers who are durable (why Hanson or JJ are not being mentioned here) they would be wise to trade a few before the book is out on them.
The problem is they cannot afford to take back any salary for an established bat. So they want to trade the JJs of the world for top 1-5 prospects and more than one.
That will be next to impossible.
mark
February 10th, 2012
9:29 pm
Cant really take this seriously…gotta be a joke.
Ken Stallings
February 10th, 2012
10:16 pm
If I were the Braves, I would do two things and see if either could get them out of that horrible network TV deal.
First, I would go to the league office and speak about how the deal was essentially an inside job the provided discount to the network who had an ownership relationship to the team. I would claim that after this deal was signed, the team was sold as a tax investment shelter. I would ask the league to pressure Fox Sports to re-negotiate the contract.
Second, if that failed, I would take the same line of thinking to court and sue Fox Sports.
When someone deliberately undervalues a commodity or service for their personal advantage there can be court relief for those who are bilked of the value. Time Warner essentially negotiated their own deal as they owned the team and the media outlets. What they did is transfer value from the team to the networks and then when they sold the team in a money-less exchange, Liberty agreed to look past the 25-year deal.
The league took action to protect the health of the Dodgers simply because their owner diverted value from the team’s operating budget in order to withstand financial problems he faced elsewhere. That is chump change compared to the kind of long term financial damage the Braves are suffering.
@fauxfrankwren
February 11th, 2012
7:17 am
Grow your pitching and buy your hitting.
And how come Law doesn’t give us credit for trying the Moneyball way? Law’s statement sure sounds Moneyballish. I guess you gotta be Billy Beane.
“They have reaped as little from the draft the past two years as anyone, taking low-ceiling college guys with early picks, staying at or under MLB’s bonus recommendations and having less luck on the international market. It’s telling that the major question on every position-player prospect in their top 10 is whether he’ll hit.”
Disgusted
February 11th, 2012
8:32 am
If I were the Braves, I would do two things and see if either could get them out of that horrible network TV deal.
@Ken Stallings–from what has been written, according to Mc Guirk, there is no way out of that deal.
It seemed suspicious but they do not seem to want to do anything about it.
I am not sure if Mc Guirk who I think was around in the Time Warner days had anything to do with it.
Even if they were up for sale, the Braves are probably not a good buy for another owner. So we are screwedd for 20 more yrs.
Disgusted
February 11th, 2012
8:39 am
“If I were the Braves, I would do two things and see if either could get them out of that horrible network TV deal”
According to Mc Guirk, there is no way out of the deal.
Or could it be that they do not want out of that deal, they do not seem to care about it.
.
eric
February 11th, 2012
9:49 am
Keith Law ranks the Braves top prospects
Atlanta Braves
1. Arodys Vizcaino, RHP (14)
2. Julio Teheran, RHP (18)
3. Christian Bethancourt, C (94)
4. Randall Delgado, RHP (98)
5. Andrelton Simmons, SS
6. Tyler Pastornicky, SS
7. Sean Gilmartin, LHP
8. Zeke Spruill, RHP
9. J.R. Graham, RHP
10. Matt Lipka, OF
smyrnabob
February 11th, 2012
10:26 am
Last year Law ranked Freeman as the number 43 prospect in baseball and did not even rank Kimbrel. They finished 1 & 2 as Rookies of the Year.
least of the east
February 11th, 2012
10:43 am
for a time that now focuses on building through the draft, this is not good. ther picks are basically money-oriented, not based on upside. I think Roy Clark and Kurt Kemp probaly left in part due to this.
Shelby Miller (St Louis) was the biggest miss in 2009, but Jacob Turner (another HS pitcher) was another better pick. high bonus demands made the Braves pass them over. many teams missed Trout who went late first round out of NJ HS
aside from Heyward and Cunningham, they haven’t drafted any OF in top 2 rounds in ages.-Lipka was converted to CF, but was an IF. an they wonder why they have no OFs who can hit ?
(local HS P Zack Wheeler went 6th to SF so Braves had no shot at him. he went to Mets in Beltran deal so will haunt us for a decade in NL East.)
BravesFanForever
February 11th, 2012
11:30 am
Mark, Mark, Mark…
You CAN hit your way to championship. If you are going to pick one season out of the past 127, I pick 1993 for my argument. The Toronto Blue Jays won the World Series that year. They scored 45 runs in 6 games for an average of 7.5 per game. The pitching wasn’t so great on either side given that 81 runs were scored by both teams (Philadelphia averaged 6 runs per game for the series). In fact, one game’s total runs were 31, 15 to 14 with Toronto winning that game.
I personally don’t think it’s about pitching or hitting by themselves: It’s about the balance between the two. You can’t have pitching only. If you don’t score enough runs or any for that matter, you won’t win. On the other hand, if you have only hitting it doesn’t do it either since you may not be able to prevent the other team from outscoring you. The best teams have both pitching and offense.
Doesn’t mean you can’t win being one-dimensional and win it all, but the odds may be against you–that is in an ideal world. That being said, nowadays, it’s just a crap shoot. Given the record of WS winners since 1990, just getting to the playoffs gives you an equal chance of winning vs. the other teams. Might was well just roll the dice to see who wins and forget playing any games.
ExBraves Fan
February 11th, 2012
12:09 pm
It’s simple. I have been a Braves fan since the day they landed in 1966. I saw my first MLB game that season. Braves vs. Giants in a day-night double hearder. Remember those? Thing of the past.
All these years I have supported them. Bought the stuff, came to games and paid over priced prices for cokes, popcorn, dogs, frys, etc. I supported them when they just flat stunk. But, no more. I am tired of this crap. No more of my money. No more of my support. All any true fan wants out of his team, is that his team try to improve and try to get better players and be in the race. No pick and poke, sign broken down players, one year wonders, etc. Just be in the race. Not like the Pirates who have not won for 20 years. I would have gave up on that owner 18 years ago. With prices so high now, you can watch them lose on TV cheaper than drive 200 miles round trip and pay those prices. As long as the current administration runs the Braves, I seen no hope of another WS victory. I wated 30 years for the last one. I don’t have 30 years left in my life to wait for another one.
Simply, it makes me sick that the current management is in it for the money and tax brakes and people are stupid enough to continue to go to the games. If everyone would actually say enough is enough and no go any more, they would be forced to put a better product on the field and or go bankrupt like the Dodgers and Rangers did. Basically, I seen no playoffs or WS for the Braves for years. Not till Liberty sells and the GM is fired.
The Duke of Flatbush
February 11th, 2012
1:10 pm
ESPN stinks at everything, they hate Atlanta too. So what do we expect from these arrogent idiots?
Powder Blue
February 12th, 2012
1:44 am
Liberty Media = half-ass. This team will never be a legitimate World Series contender until it has new ownership and changes everything from the top down. The Braves ticket office actually called me last week to inquire about whether I plan to buy tickets this year. Hey, go out and spend some real money on some real hitters (not Jack Wilson), and I’ll spend my money on your product.
The Duke of Flatbush
February 12th, 2012
9:30 am
Liberty Media has made the Braves a 2nd tier team. Hard to believe we would ever put these guys in the same class as the ASG. Braves look like Thrashers now. Can’t wait for the season to start-NOT!!
KB
February 12th, 2012
5:11 pm
I think it’s a little early to judge Minor. He’s been pretty good when given opportunities.
Rtruth
February 12th, 2012
7:07 pm
If this guy was so smart wouldn’t he be a GM somewhere? I thought so.
Brad
February 13th, 2012
7:27 am
So, we have the start of what happened in Baltimore with that lame GM they had…what was his name? Oh, Frank Wren that’s right….
He’s not going to win any exec of the year awards, so get use to seeing our talent pool decrease year after year until he’s fired.