ESPN: Tech is the second-worst at keeping in-state talent
Jonathan Dwyer: One of the exceptions who proves the rule. (AJC photo by Johnny Crawford)
One of the charms about ESPN is that the Worldwide Leader has enough correspondents to satisfy every viewpoint. Just yesterday, ESPN recruiting correspondent Jamie Newberg was lauding Georgia Tech for its success in finding prospects of lesser portfolio. But now comes LaRue Cook of ESPN the Magazine to serve as the bad cop.
Georgia Tech, Cook writes, is the nation’s second-worst program at attracting high-end in-state players. (Only Arizona keeps Tech from being No. 1.) Cook’s rationale: Over the past five years, the Jackets have landed only two of the 74 Georgia recruits ranked in ESPN’s top 150.
Wait. It gets worse.
Neither of the two — Jonathan Dwyer and Morgan Burnett — was landed by Paul Johnson and staff. Those two were signed by Chan Gailey, who last coached Tech in 2007. Only one Tech signee under Johnson, Cook writes, has cracked the ESPN 150, and that was Vad Lee of North Carolina.
More from Cook (link requires registration): “Over the last five years, Alabama and Auburn have combined for 10 blue-chip preps out of the Peach State, while Florida and Florida State have combined to sign nine.”
As has been noted a time or two in this space and others, Tech under Johnson hasn’t been shopping at the same ritzy store as do the big SEC programs — so we can’t say Cook’s findings are a shock. Still, there’s something about seeing the chilling number (2-for-74) that drives the point home. Thank goodness for Arizona, huh?
By Mark Bradley
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746 comments Add your comment
GTBob
January 31st, 2012
12:04 pm
O’Leary could bring in big time players
Name all the big time players he brought in.
Gorilla Biscuit
January 31st, 2012
12:04 pm
“PJ beat them the first 2 years and with some better play calling should have beat them the next 2 years.”
Wrong.
Supersize that order, mutt
January 31st, 2012
12:05 pm
@ Mike, sorry, but UGA’s 2008 team was pre-season number 1. That team was better than any UGA team Gailey faced.
headley lamar
January 31st, 2012
12:05 pm
Bottom line you guys wanna stick with CPJ .
Fine. You’ll never win anything with him.
Nothing.
He isnt a very good coach and he loses consistently.
He cant recruit and his in game management is terrible ( Especially at the end of games )
But hey .. you can always fall back on all those rushing yards.
Dawglasville
January 31st, 2012
12:06 pm
wes – I had a girl friend who was a grad student in neurology at NYU. She applied for Emory’s doctorates program but deep down she had expressed concerns that she might not grow professionally because southerners are “kinda slow and laid back.” She was denied by Emory and shortly after that we split up. I guess that we southerners were too dim to recognize the supreme northern being that we let slip through our fingers.
Gorilla Biscuit
January 31st, 2012
12:06 pm
Super, I though Dwyer transferred from Oklahoma or some such place.
John
January 31st, 2012
12:06 pm
UGA fans should be worried about Alabama stealing GA’s best talent. I can understand why they don’t go to Tech, but there is no excuse for Nkemdiche and Reuban Foster to go to Bama and leave Georgia which looks like is going to happen for next season. They are the top two players in the country, not just the state.
headley lamar
January 31st, 2012
12:07 pm
2 – 10 vs real teams.
CPJ would never make it in the SEC.
Maybe 2-3 wins per season
1 SEC conference win per year.
Something along those lines.
Mike
January 31st, 2012
12:07 pm
@GTBob – Finish the quote. His 2008 class was projected top 20. He had broken through in recruiting and was winning recruiting battles vs Clemson, UGA, FSU, etc. Kids saw what Johnson and Choice were able to do at Tech, he ran a pro-style offense, and Tenuta ran an attacking defense that kids love on that side of the ball.
Yeah it took him a few years, thanks in no small part to the mess he inherited from O’Leary, but he did turn the recruiting around.
Supersize that order, mutt
January 31st, 2012
12:07 pm
headley, that’s sorta like you falling back on beating Tech while losing most years (lately) to Florida, USC, Bama, and LSU. Yeah, I know CMR’s overall record against Bama is a winning one, but look at the last time you played them
GT Man
January 31st, 2012
12:08 pm
GT Bob, Keith Brooking, Joe Hamilton, Charley Rogers, Felipe Claybrooks, Kelly Campbell, Dez White—anymore you need to know of and these guys beat Ga 3 straight
GTBob
January 31st, 2012
12:08 pm
He isnt a very good coach and he loses consistently.
He has the highest winning percentage at GT since Bobby Dodd. He is the only GT coach to win 8 games 3 of his first 4 years. He won an ACC championship. You have a weird definition of “loses consistently”.
Supersize that order, mutt
January 31st, 2012
12:08 pm
“mess he inherited from O’Leary” ??????
Jack G.
January 31st, 2012
12:09 pm
Come on folks —quit dumping on Gailey. Gailey was a good coach with a stubborn streak.
Gailey’s problem was named Reggie Ball.
Supersize that order, mutt
January 31st, 2012
12:10 pm
in 2002, Chan had great talent that he had inherited from O’Leary, and he gets totally blown out by the dwags. I would say it’s more likely that he MADE A MESS out of what he inherited from O’Leary
Jack G.
January 31st, 2012
12:10 pm
and I still dont like Paul Ball
Supersize that order, mutt
January 31st, 2012
12:11 pm
Gorilla, Dwyer was recruited as freshman out of HS; he didn’t transfer in from anywhere. I’m pretty sure that is correct.
Mike
January 31st, 2012
12:12 pm
@Supersize – are you kidding? Did you really say that? LOL
FL Jacket
January 31st, 2012
12:14 pm
Mark, did anybody consider that this might have something to do with how dumb the state of Georgia is?
Mike
January 31st, 2012
12:14 pm
@Jack G. – Gailey’s issue was Patrick Nix the OC. He needed a better offensive coordinator. Everything else was fine. Nix made a mess of Miami after he left Tech. Didnt last long there either LOL
GT Man
January 31st, 2012
12:15 pm
Gorilla, I think Choice transferred from Oklahoma, Dwyer was Parade All-American out of Kell High in Marietta
Smyrna Gold
January 31st, 2012
12:15 pm
Headley is another realist. Bottom line is Tech can’t or doesn’t recruit competitively. In my opinion the coaching and/or the offensive scheme is suspect, the defense and special teams are horrible and the program today is worse than 4 years ago. In 4 years the program should be showing significant signs of improvement, not decline. Rather than winning and playing competitively, the rallying cry has become “yea but we outgained you in yards rushing”.
CPJ was aware of all the short comings at Tech and led us to believe Tech could win regardless. Well it’s not happening.
Nobis
January 31st, 2012
12:15 pm
Dwyer was a HUGE recruiter for TECH. He helped get that team to come together. Dwyer was TECH from day one. UGa didn’t offer early and TECH did. Dwyer helped by talking to other recruits at the camps and calling them. Roddy and Dwyer were together and neither were transfers.
Supersize that order, mutt
January 31st, 2012
12:15 pm
@ Mike, did I say what? That O’Leary didn’t leave Chan a “mess”? O’Leary’s teams beat the dwags 3 out of the last 4 years he was there. Where was the so-called mess that you claim he left Chan?
John D
January 31st, 2012
12:16 pm
As a Tech grad, I don’t understand how other Tech folks don’t see this as a problem?? What kind of ‘our conference hurts us’, or ‘we don’t need three + star recruits’ for our offense crap are we spewing? I think the point is – CPJ is not a particularly gifted recruiter and that HURTS our ability to compete for championships on a REGULAR basis.
Good coaching can make up for some gap in talent. Good talent can somewhat cover up bad coaching. Is there a reason we need to settle for one or the other? Last time we won the ACC was better talent from Gailey (Demaryius Thomas, Jonathan Dwyer, Morgan Burnett, Derrick Morgan et al) and the better coaching of Johnson.
And how does the excuse about the type of offense account for an inability to recruit good defensive players???
GTBob
January 31st, 2012
12:16 pm
anymore you need to know of and these guys beat Ga 3 straight
They did take advantage of an awful UGA coach. And kudos to them for it. O’Leary had good players here and there just like Chan did, just like CPJ will have. He never had a lot of them, and certainly not enough to make him comparable to the SEC schools in the southeast.
The Factor
January 31st, 2012
12:16 pm
What gets me about the article is this: You constantly here the “media”, ie, Lou Holtz, etc. talk about Notre Dame having to go the extra mile in recruiting because they only take high quality “student athletes” and they are at a disadvantge…..
Look, I went to UGA and I know Tech cannot and does not offer certain in state talent becaue they simply cannot qaulify academically. Throw in a more narrow offering than Notre Dame (or Va “TECH”) and it makes it even harder. Where is that mentioned? Or, is that saved only for the Irish.
Some, quote on quote, Dawg fans love to run their mouths about all the in state recruits UGA loses every year to Bama, Auburn, LSU or SC. Living in Athens, I know for a fact we simply cannot and do not offer the some of the same kids other schools do as much as some of our “fans” would like to think. Yet headlines of in state Top 150 kids going elsewhere don’t often have a byline indicating if either Tech or UGA offered – and if not , there was a reason. At UGA, Jan Kemp changed everything.
bratworse
January 31st, 2012
12:17 pm
Bottom line, Johnson/Richt, same # of wins over last 4 seasons.
Johnson did it with much less talent.
FL Jacket
January 31st, 2012
12:17 pm
Smyrna, change your name to Red andBlack…
8.5 wins per year versus 7 fromthe last guy? I don’t care where he finds his players, and I don’t care how bad recruiting analysts say our athletes are. The guy can coach.
GTBob
January 31st, 2012
12:18 pm
CPJ was aware of all the short comings at Tech and led us to believe Tech could win regardless. Well it’s not happening.
What were you expecting? 10 win seasons every year?
Nobis
January 31st, 2012
12:19 pm
Mike….NIX wasn’t the OC calling plays all the years he was at TECH. Gailey was calling the games for the first 3 years.
Dawglasville
January 31st, 2012
12:20 pm
Most Tech guys still like CPJ. Most UGA guys still like Richt. You keep yours. We will keep ours. Most of us will be happy. There is really nothing to debate.
Delbert D.
January 31st, 2012
12:20 pm
That is not surprising, given the quality of education in Georgia.
To headley
January 31st, 2012
12:21 pm
You always like to point out we’re 2-10 against “real teams” (whatever that means). When CPJ is also 4-0 against MS State and Vandy, 2-0 against FSU, 3-1 against UNC (division rival), 4-1 against Clemson.
I guess those teams don’t count? Somehow they are not “real” teams?
Mike
January 31st, 2012
12:22 pm
@Supersize – you said the UGA 2008 team was better than any UGA team Gailey faced. The 2008 team couldnt play defense if they wanted to. They were preseason #1 because of how good the 2007 was that finished #2 in the nation. Dont even get me comparing it to the Greene and Sockley SEC champion teams either.
As for Oleary, Gailey inherited sanctions thanks to O’Leary playing ineligible players. They were still on probation under Johnson which is why the NCAA yanked the 2009 ACC Championship from them.
Wolfman
January 31st, 2012
12:23 pm
Most schools aren’t competing with the likes of South Carolina, Clemson, Tenn, Alabama, Auburn, FL State, and U of FL next door. Georgia puts out great HS football players, and they attract the attention of every program around…. Combine that with GT’s academics (ranked higher than every school mentioned) and being an urban campus and its not surprising. Too bad the article didn’t mention a few of these things……
Supersize that order, mutt
January 31st, 2012
12:25 pm
@ Mike, the 2002 team was still good enough not to get blown away the way they did by the dwags. No Johnson team has even come close to that humiliation.
FL Jacket
January 31st, 2012
12:25 pm
To Headley…
People who point out CPJ’s losses for some reason cherry-pick dang near ALL of them…as ifthe expectation is to win every single one.
John D
January 31st, 2012
12:25 pm
GTBob – ‘What were you expecting? 10 win seasons every year?’
No – 9-win seasons every year; and regularly threatening to win the ACC. Keep in mind – O’Leary win totals:
Year 1 – 6 (year after the Bill Lewis classic 1-10)
Year 2 – 10
Year 3 – 10 (Friedgen leaves)
Year 4 – 9
Year 5 – 8
So – I think it’s reasonable to suggest that a Tech coach can be held to a standard of wining at least 9 games/year, especially considering everyone plays 12-14 with bowl games and conference championships. O’Leary teams played 12 games – including their bowl game.
Hal
January 31st, 2012
12:26 pm
I would comment but it’s too close to National Signing Day. We may loose some more talent if I open up.
Supersize that order, mutt
January 31st, 2012
12:26 pm
A Bama fan on the other blog is making light of the Krystal affair after the NC game. I think that tells us all we need to know about Bama fans
The Factor
January 31st, 2012
12:27 pm
@Fl Jacket,
Agree, the guy can coach. Glad he is not in the SEC at a school with a wider, less academic offering.
Supersize that order, mutt
January 31st, 2012
12:27 pm
loose ??? How do you “loose” anything?
Bill
January 31st, 2012
12:29 pm
Typical generalization of what happens at Tech. Maybe this guy should look at the academic requirements at Tech before he makes such comments. You have to have some smarts to get into Tech, whether you like it or not, they have standards and PJ & staff have to recruit these type of players. I can’t say as much for the other big school in Georgia.
GTBob
January 31st, 2012
12:29 pm
John D, you may want to recheck those O’Leary win totals because they aren’t accurate at all.
Truth Hurts
January 31st, 2012
12:29 pm
Ever notice how GT fans never once use the whole “academic”myth as an excuse with their basketball and baseball teams? Interesting, isnt it?
The facts are your football program is a punchline. You play in a craptastic stadium that you couldnt fill up if you paid all of the Atlanta homeless a 100 bucks a pop, and you have a conartist head coach that should be serving time for the criminal load of bs he sold your brain dead AD to hire him. Get a clue tool fans.
FL Jacket
January 31st, 2012
12:30 pm
Truth Hurts…
You’re looking for the Maryland blog I think…
Supersize that order, mutt
January 31st, 2012
12:32 pm
@ Truth Hurts, the REAL TRUTH is that BDS is ranked in the top 50 stadiums in the country (# 32) . Sanford and Son Stadium is ranked higher, but not by a whole helluva lot.
William Satterwhite
January 31st, 2012
12:33 pm
“This years UGA team is the first one Johnson has played that even resembles the teams Gailey played against.”
Johnson’s very first game against UGA was against the pre-season #1 team in America that had the top QB (1st overall draft pick) and RB out of that year’s NFL draft.
Regarding the article, while it’s fair to say GT needs to recruit more high-end talent in general, the problem is that it seems it ignore a few points-
1) Tech runs a unique offense that requires players with unique skill sets. If the top OL out of the state are all mammoth pass blocking types, would it really do anybody any good for those guys to come to Tech?
2) While the academics card can be overblown a bit, it nevertheless is an issue. How many top players out of Georgia can (and most importantly want to) put up with Tech’s curriculum?
3) Schools typically don’t just go out and sign the top 25 players they can get, they have positions to fill and sometimes, a school’s needs might not align neatly with ESPN’s handy little list of the top players (and as pointed out above, Tech’s unique needs might not align neatly with ESPN’s appraisal of the talent pool)
Dawglasville
January 31st, 2012
12:36 pm
Numbers don’t lie but liars use numbers. Part of the blog game is to cherry pick info to try to validate your point while belittling someone else. It is as childish as Candy Land or Chutes and Ladders but those who blog that way get an inflated sense of self worth.