ESPN: Tech is the second-worst at keeping in-state talent
Jonathan Dwyer: One of the exceptions who proves the rule. (AJC photo by Johnny Crawford)
One of the charms about ESPN is that the Worldwide Leader has enough correspondents to satisfy every viewpoint. Just yesterday, ESPN recruiting correspondent Jamie Newberg was lauding Georgia Tech for its success in finding prospects of lesser portfolio. But now comes LaRue Cook of ESPN the Magazine to serve as the bad cop.
Georgia Tech, Cook writes, is the nation’s second-worst program at attracting high-end in-state players. (Only Arizona keeps Tech from being No. 1.) Cook’s rationale: Over the past five years, the Jackets have landed only two of the 74 Georgia recruits ranked in ESPN’s top 150.
Wait. It gets worse.
Neither of the two — Jonathan Dwyer and Morgan Burnett — was landed by Paul Johnson and staff. Those two were signed by Chan Gailey, who last coached Tech in 2007. Only one Tech signee under Johnson, Cook writes, has cracked the ESPN 150, and that was Vad Lee of North Carolina.
More from Cook (link requires registration): “Over the last five years, Alabama and Auburn have combined for 10 blue-chip preps out of the Peach State, while Florida and Florida State have combined to sign nine.”
As has been noted a time or two in this space and others, Tech under Johnson hasn’t been shopping at the same ritzy store as do the big SEC programs — so we can’t say Cook’s findings are a shock. Still, there’s something about seeing the chilling number (2-for-74) that drives the point home. Thank goodness for Arizona, huh?
By Mark Bradley
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"GT Second Worst At Signing Elite In-State Talent" - ESPN
January 31st, 2012
11:00 am
[...] Per ESPN through AJC's Mark Bradley. ESPN link is for subscribers so I won't link to that. ESPN says Tech is the second-worst at keeping in-state talent | Mark Bradley I actually agree with the gist of it…GT needs to do a better job of signing more [...]
bratworse
January 31st, 2012
11:00 am
Coach Johnson isn’t bowing to the ‘mighty’ ESPN 150, so they’re running a neg piece on him. Unprofessional.
Coach Johnson is still one of the winningest coaches in the nation of coaches with 5+ years experience.
Coach Johnson is a non-conformer, he runs the triple option, and usually finishes in the top 5 in rushing in the country. And usually finishes in the top 20 in scoring. 24 of Tech players are now playing in the NFL.
Coach Johnson really is smarter than almost every coach he faces offensively. He needs a great defensive coach, but really very few defensive coaches have stopped Johnson’s triple option.
Coach Johnson doesn’t have to deal with 5 star primma donna’s like Crowell, he’s guys are hungry to prove they are better than the ESPN 150.
CT_Jacket
January 31st, 2012
11:00 am
@Rob, didn’t want to go there.
BigTimeTechFan
January 31st, 2012
11:00 am
@Bryan G
You got it backwards, when Dwyer was rated for how playing for Tech he was rated 1st / 2nd round pick.
It was not till he show up at NFL camps that he started to downgrade because of added weight and medicine he had to take for health reasons.
Rob
January 31st, 2012
11:00 am
Bryan –
Have you not heard of Demaryius Thomas? Or soon-to-be Stephen Hill? Guess you missed this year’s NFL playoffs. Too bad, you missed out on some good football.
Playing in the triple option as a WR does not hurt draft status whatsoever.
George Stein
January 31st, 2012
11:02 am
He would not have put up the numbers he did at Tech if he went to UGA, Bryan G., because y’all don’t use a feature back. Further, aside from Moreno, what UGA backs have been taken high in the draft lately?
bratworse
January 31st, 2012
11:04 am
ESPN is least accurate recruiting service. they really don’t know what they’re doing.
http://thomasgoldkamp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=4:sports&id=17:the-recruiting-project
Just Asking
January 31st, 2012
11:04 am
Wouldn’t a lot of this be settled if players had an early signing date for football like they do in basketball? Some of this is just dragged out too long.
jarvis
January 31st, 2012
11:08 am
Now you’ve done it Bradley. You’re deeper on Johnson’s poo list than Shultz even is, and as we all know Shultzie has a pro-UGA agenda.
Mark Bradley
January 31st, 2012
11:08 am
Tom Luginbill, one of the analysts I spoke with yesterday, noted that there were more commitments in June than in January. That suggests an early signing week would not be out of place, Just Asking.
Tech Fan Since 1950
January 31st, 2012
11:08 am
It truly is amazing that Tech does as well as it does. Real Tech folks do not make excuses. We know what the reasons are and it is not coaching and recruiting. To be honest, Tech coaching over the years has been tremendous. The legendary Bobby Dodd, Bud Carson, Pepper Rodgers, Bill Curry, Bobby Ross, George O’Leary, Chan Gailey, and Paul Johnson all have provided great moments for Tech. All of these coaches recruited players that fit their systems and generally, except maybe in Dodd’s case, they were never able to recruit in volume the top players in the state. I believe I remember the first time the AJC did its annual top 11 players in the state of Georgia and over the years I suspect Tech has averaged getting 1.0? of those players annually. Remarkable isn’t it to still be relevant, still go to annual bowl games for more than a decade, still win an occasional conference championship, still win a national championship sooner than your in-state rival, still be on the World Leader on Thursday nights, and still be able to offer as our dear friends like to say, “four dogs, and four cokes” along with the best view of a football stadium and city skyline in America. Go Jackets!
Admiral Obvious
January 31st, 2012
11:09 am
This is too easy.
The top high school prospects that want to play on Sunday want to play for a college team that prepares them for Sunday. That usually means college teams playing a pro style offense or defense and/or coordinated by top offensive/defensive coaches.(NOT TECH) They also want to play on a team and/or in a conference that’s usually in the BCS hunt.(NOT TECH, ACC) They want to play for a coach that usually wins against the best.(NOT TECH) Not for a team that plays in a basketball conference that loads up the schedule with non-conference patsies.(TECH AGAIN) Tech is a solid vanilla program that’s not typically going to attract the best high school prospects.(TECH AGAIN) Also Nerds, PJ has a bad habit of making questionable game decisions that usually backfire then he blames his players. That’s not good and don’t think for a second prospects don’t notice that. In conclusion, you’re lucky you play in such a crappy football conference and I give PJ credit for usually making lemonade out of lemons. Be happy with what you’ve got because it’s not bad but if you want to play with the big boys you’re going to need a new coach.
Jim
January 31st, 2012
11:11 am
What has uga done over the past 5 years with all this state talent mark?
Rob
January 31st, 2012
11:11 am
Admiral might have just won the record for longest, dumbest post on this blog. Congrats!
George Stein
January 31st, 2012
11:11 am
Thanks for your contribution, Admiral Obvious. Just about everything you said could be said about UGA, too.
Mark Bradley
January 31st, 2012
11:11 am
I believe Georgia won the SEC East in 2011, Jim.
Rob
January 31st, 2012
11:11 am
Mark, can we get this guy a prize?
MB is an expletive
January 31st, 2012
11:12 am
This is journalism? Nicely done to put this article out the day before NSD. Kudos to you Mark Bradley.
How about some articles detailing the gross oversigning that occurs at Auburn & Alabama? I’m sure kids lives aren’t virtually ruined when their presumed scholarship to an institution of higher learning is yanked out from under them.
billyBobjacket
January 31st, 2012
11:12 am
On the plus side, probably more UGA grads voted for Obama than Tech grads (well, the American ones anyway), and look where THAT got us
lewisbuzzard
January 31st, 2012
11:12 am
Thank God we have a coach that can field a competitive team occassinally. I remeber the Gailey years way to well.
Jacket Man
January 31st, 2012
11:13 am
I don’t think Paul Johnson cares a hoot what any “journalist” or recruiting “guru” thinks about his recruiting classes. He looks for players who will qualify for enrollment at GA Tech, which everyone knows is one of the toughest “Universities” in the Country to get into, and with the educational “issues” everyone knows abound in the State of Georgia, there are fewer and fewer qualified student athletes who can even do so.
Now looking at the specific offenses and defenses that the Jackets run, this also will limit the number of players who will be interested in playing in the “systems”.
Finally, there are some players who have a desire for a particular major that GA Tech may not even offer, and therefore, will eliminate the Jackets for that reason alone.
Therefore, if Paul Johnson wants to find players who will meet his “needs,” he has to go out of State to do so often-times. Does he have to explain himself or apologize? Of course not.
JT
January 31st, 2012
11:13 am
Tech is capable of winning as they have proven over the years. Paul Johnson is the right type of coach for them EXCEPT that he is hell bent on running that option offense which limits even further the talent pool available to them already limited by academics. If he doesn’t adjust to that reality then he’ll be gone within two years and the talent left behind in the cupboard will be very thin indeed.
Gtkenz
January 31st, 2012
11:13 am
GTBob, win. All they have to do is win titles or at least play for them consistently and finish in the top 15 or 20. They need to go to better bowl games, and they need to win them. They have to win a BCS bowl, and most importantly, they must beat UGA more often. At least play .500 against Georgia. Opening up the curriculum at bit wouldn’t hurt either. I’m very proud of the bowl streak, but it is loaded with lower tier bowls that garner very little attention nationally. I thought the showing against LSU and Iowa hurt CPJ badly because it was an opportunity to show how effective the offense is, but ended up validating the belief that it is obsolete when given time to prepare. It’s tough, but winning cures all ills.
bratworse
January 31st, 2012
11:14 am
Winthrop Intelligence did a huge amount of research on this and basically found that there ain’t much diff between 3-5 stars when it comes to winning. Guys like Chris Peterson get it done.
http://winthropintelligence.com/digest/2011/05/31/football-recruiting-performance.html
BigTimeTechFan
January 31st, 2012
11:17 am
To this day I would not trade Roddy Jones for Caleb King, Washan Ealy. I would take S Days of Z Metlingburg, I really like the players Coach Johnson brings in
Look at this year’s class, all outstanding football players, I don’t one kid in this year’s class that I don’t think can be a pretty good player.
Place Tech misses is not really the top 150, it’s that top 10 type player that is a freak type player, Clowney, Grayson Kid, Herschel, Marcus Dupree but the last time Tech got a player like that was Calvin Johnson and he was not even rated like one.
I’m ok with Joey Hamilton, Eddie Lee Ivory’s, Calvin Johnson, Roddy Jones, J Dwyer, Gary Guyton, Phillip Wheeler, Darryl Richard
GT fan
January 31st, 2012
11:18 am
If you want to improve recruiting at GT then there needs to be a college of business with all the “degrees” that come with it. Also, general studies degrees would help. That way the academic handicaps (i.e. majority of ESPN “Top 150s”) could come to GT, not worry about attending class, and still earn a degree if they/when they don’t make it to “the league”
Going back to the beginning of recruiting rankings, I’d like to see a study of how many of the ESPN Top 150s every played or are still playing in “the league”
The Truth
January 31st, 2012
11:18 am
Thank goodness no GT supporter has pulled the “academics” excuse, yet. We all recognize that won’t fly. It is rather strange that Vanderbilt can come into the state and recruit better than GT. Vanderbilt’s academics are premier. Recruiting is about hard work, relationships, selling a vision, confidence, staff members, facilities, campus environment, results. It is clear GT is struggling in many, failing in most of those areas. Nightly, daily, reports of muggings and rapes of students doens’t give confidence to parents that sending their child downtown is safe.
honest_abe
January 31st, 2012
11:19 am
anytime something negative is written about tech, their entire fanbase, yes all 5 of them squeal like little school girls.
“we have high academic standards”
“we have high academic standards”
“we are a wack school”
“there are no pretty girls there”
“we have high academic standards”
god have mercy everything georgia tech is insufferable when it comes to football.
Jacket1985
January 31st, 2012
11:20 am
I think there is a definite link between the Tech’s being able to recruit and the state of education in Georgia. Georgia ranks near the bottom nationally in education and yet Tech is in the top 5 engineering schools in the state. As a result, Tech cannot even begin to offer a scholarship to an athlete with a 900 SAT score and borderline HS grades.
My own daughter is an example. She had an 1100 SAT score, was STAR student and 3rd in her class and could not get into Tech. However, UGA took her on early admission. That’s not a knock on UGA, it’s just the fact that Tech has to have a different type of student or they are no longer a top 5 engineering school.
Tech just has to recruit a different kind of athlete.
JDHGT
January 31st, 2012
11:21 am
Mark,
I agree that Tech certainly would not be hurt by having better recruits; however, don’t you agree that the program is ahead of where it was under Gailey? First of all, Gailey struggled to get more than 7 wins. Johnson has done that 3 out of 4 years. Secondly, the last two years, Tech has averaged 33 and 25 points per game and scored fewer than two touchdowns in three games. In Gailey’s last two years, Tech averaged 25 and 26 points per game and scored fewer than two touchdowns EIGHT times. I think more consistent quarterback play and a better DEFENSE would have this team contending for championships on a regular basis.
Mark Bradley
January 31st, 2012
11:23 am
Oh, yes, JDHGT. I wouldn’t trade Gailey for Paul Johnson. There’s no question Tech is better-coached now.
bratworse
January 31st, 2012
11:23 am
Andy Staples wrote about some research between recruiting at least 50% of your players within 200 miles, and winning. So Paul Johnson needs to recruits 50% within 200 miles, which he probably does.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/andy_staples/01/20/recruiting/
GTBob
January 31st, 2012
11:24 am
Gtkenz, I agree that winning consistently would create the best recruiting boost but GT is never going to win consistently because of recruiting. It’s basically a chicken and egg scenario.
Mark Bradley
January 31st, 2012
11:25 am
To me, the bad part about Tech not landing the in-state guys is that it seems such a missed opportunity. You are, after all, Georgia Tech.
Eastside Jacket
January 31st, 2012
11:26 am
Jacket1985 finally talked about the big elephant in the room. High school education in the state of Georgia is a joke, especially among the pool of top football players.
RTR22
January 31st, 2012
11:28 am
Blame it ALL on Saban……Justin Thomas will be the best QB ever at GT.
bratworse
January 31st, 2012
11:28 am
Paul Johnson has 36 wins at Tech in last 4 seasons.
Mark Richt has 34 wins at UGA in last 4 seasons.
Mark Bradley
January 31st, 2012
11:28 am
And I did, I probably should mention, write about this very topic last Signing Day.
http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/02/02/the-verdict-on-tech-not-awful-but-where-are-the-georgians/
GTBob
January 31st, 2012
11:29 am
Thank goodness no GT supporter has pulled the “academics” excuse, yet. We all recognize that won’t fly.
UNC was able to accept a recruit that we had to turn away for academic reasons. You really think that doesn’t hurt us?
sheepdawg
January 31st, 2012
11:29 am
its called scholastic integrity, and it should trump signing non scholars (potential thugs, ask UGA) every day
Admiral Obvious
January 31st, 2012
11:31 am
Rob, I’m dancing in your dome!
Be happy, because it’s OK to be one of the better teams in a mediocre conference. Hey Urban Meyer plays the same basic offense and if he isn’t having a breakdown he’s a heck of a coach. Great players WANT to play for him. However PJ is NO UM!
it is a shame that
January 31st, 2012
11:31 am
that espn ignores the bigger story. ‘the over signing of the sec’
maybe if the sec didnt do this tech would fare better eh?
besides i dont think that boise state recruits much better than we do and we can see how that has turned out.
bratworse
January 31st, 2012
11:32 am
Tech has 8 out of 15 recruits form Georgia. That’s over 50% of recruits within 200 miles. Beyond that, there’s no correlation between having more than 50%, and winning mroe games.
Nobis
January 31st, 2012
11:33 am
Funny…….so Richt does great recruiting. Since 2008(when CPJ arrived) Richt and Johnson are both 34-19. I would say Richt really WASTE talent while Johnson coaches it up.
bratworse
January 31st, 2012
11:34 am
Paul Johnson has won 2 more games than Mark Richt in last 4 years, so whatever he’s doing, is working.
MB is an expletive
January 31st, 2012
11:35 am
Then you really are just that stupid, MB. Another poster made an excellent point about the state of education in Georgia. Just talking about the state of Georgia — after Paul Johnson finds the players in state that he likes for his system, he then has to make sure they can pass the curriculum at Tech. After all, the whole point is to get an education, not just play football on Saturdays (hence the name STUDENT athlete). All of the man-boys on here obsessed with recruiting seem to forget that….shake my head….that’s what’s wrong with this country.
BigTimeTechFan
January 31st, 2012
11:35 am
Things to keep in Mine
GT has high academic admission standards then all the schools they are competing against in recruiting these player. At same time state of Georgia is in the bottom of HS education performance
GT has a really small amount of degree offered compared to the schools they are competing against.
GT has smaller student body, when mean less alumni, less fan base to influence these kids.
GT Classes are hard, kids are told that up front by Tech and other coaches. They will be told that Tech accepts higher scoring kids yet those kid still struggle more than students at other schools
Not dogging Tech but these facts may hurt them in cases, I still say the benefits of Tech outnumber these but they are cases that other schools don’t have to deal with.
gtfanfrom1951
January 31st, 2012
11:36 am
What the heck does it matter if they play on Sunday? This is college and the best QB in the game played at B State! How many stars you have is like a beauty contest it all who judge is. VT has had very few top 20 or 30 classes. Jamie Newburg and Tom Luginbil are biggest losers. Luginbil could not hit the side of a barn when he was at Tech and now his and expert give me a break!
Edward C.
January 31st, 2012
11:37 am
Recruiting is the most overrated aspect of CFB when it comes to the coach. The school’s recruit themselves. Lots of examples here:
http://coachesbythenumbers.com/analysis/
Smyrna Gold
January 31st, 2012
11:37 am
Birmingham Jacket is the only realistic Tech fan on this blog. CPJ and his triple option has run its course and is drastically harming recruiting not to mention the horrific defense and special teams. The bottom line is Tech can get much more for the $2.2 + million we are paying CPJ. All the excuses about academics are getting old. If Tech can’t recruit well enough to improve the present product we are seeing on Saturday then throw in the towel and concentrate on the minor sports where we seem to be able to recruit “student” athletes.