Tech’s D still isn’t great, but dumping Al Groh isn’t the answer
To date, Al Groh is 0-for-2 regarding the stenciled objective. (AJC photo by Johnny Crawford)
I’d keep Al Groh. Georgia Tech’s defense hasn’t gotten great with him in charge, but it has shown incremental improvement. It’s 46th nationally in total defense, which beats the 64th of last season, when Groh had just arrived, and the 54th of 2009, when Dave Wommack was on his way out.
With seven starters scheduled to return, next season could be even better. But that’s not a given, and there’s a basic reason why: Tech’s incumbent defenders aren’t all that great. Julian Burnett is a good player. Jeremiah Attaochu is a good player. Rod Sweeting is a good player. That’s about it.
Tech’s defensive failings aren’t akin to Georgia’s under Willie Martinez. Back then, Georgia had conspicuously gifted players but yielded increasingly lousy results. I’m not sure any coordinator — John Chavis, Bud Foster, Todd Grantham, Nick Saban/Kirby Smart — could turn these Jackets into a top 10 defense. And here’s where we look harder at the stats.
Tech is 30th in pass defense but is tied for 70th against the run. The first, I submit, is more a reflection of scheme; the second is a function of getting shoved backward. Two of Tech’s four losses — against Virginia and Virginia Tech — were a product of being overwhelmed at the line of scrimmage. The loss to Miami had less to do with defensive lapses than special-teams howlers, and the loss to Georgia wasn’t a total wipeout. A good Bulldogs team managed 380 yards in 2011; in 2010, a mediocre one got 425.
The trouble with Tech isn’t that its players are out of position but that in-position players don’t do what’s required. The Jackets are 92nd in third-down defense, 79th in sacks, 99th in tackles for losses. Some of that can be traced to the coordinator, but only some. At every level of football, players have to make plays. Tech doesn’t have many playmakers.
It was different under Wommack. The Jackets had Derrick Morgan and Morgan Burnett, NFL-caliber talents, and still couldn’t stop anybody. In 2009, six opponents scored 30 or more points against a Tech team that won the ACC championship. This season only four opponents broke 30 on the Jackets, and two of those — Virginia Tech and Georgia — had a pronounced manpower advantage.
To suggest that Groh has rendered himself a Tech fixture would be overstating. He hasn’t, and that’s the reason we’re having this discussion. He signed on for two seasons, and Year 2 will end in the Sun Bowl on New Year’s Eve. The belief around Tech is that Groh will be asked to stay, and that would be the better course.
To change schemes yet again would force Tech’s defenders to embark on yet another shakedown cruise. They’re just getting used to Groh’s 3-4 after Wommack’s 4-3, and they’re better off than they were two years ago. There’s no guarantee they’ll ever be as good as they need to be, but to shuffle coordinators would all but guarantee they won’t maximize potential in 2012.
Oh, and I say again: Better recruiting would help. Two years later, there’s not another Derrick Morgan in sight.
By Mark Bradley
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
300 comments Add your comment
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH
December 20th, 2011
10:14 am
“For those that always say “It does not have anything to do with players’ Look at prime example for 2011. Auburn.”
Only one recruit jumped ship. Auburn has what, 5 running backs? Bama needs a running back more than Auburn. If more recruits jump ship then I’ll have no choice but to agree with you. Auburn is one of those schools where future head coaches came to learn.
Gus Malzahn
Gene Chizik
Bobby Petrino
Will Muschamp
john
December 20th, 2011
10:14 am
And I’m not sure how much credit you can give Grantham when he has a beast like Jenkins in the middle.
Wet Willie...keep on smiling
December 20th, 2011
10:14 am
GT doesn’t have the talent level for any DC to have success!!!! Anybody can see that Tech isn’t getting talent on the defensive side of the ball. Blaming the DC is easy for sure. You can scheme on offense and have some success however on defense you will not…..will not fool folks for long. GT will have to make a decision at the end of 2012 about PJ and whether to go forward or cut him loose. Denial isn’t a plan that works.
gt4ever
December 20th, 2011
10:17 am
Grantham is a JOKE, and an embarrassment to UGA and the state of Georgia…. I don’t give two cents about what his defense did… He should at minimum been disciplined, but in my day he would have been fired. Period! UGA has a problem with discipline…. Just look at their illustrious history…
2010 BCS Champs
December 20th, 2011
10:17 am
“Coaches leaving to take other jobs now as they see the talent level not keeping up with 2010.”
That is a false assumption. Gus left because he wanted to be a head coach. Roof was about to fired and took a job elsewhere. Coaches come and go all the time but it doesn’t mean the ship is sinking. The average defensive/offensive coordinator stays at a school 3 years. Both stayed at Auburn for 3 years and left. Big deal. I’m confident that Auburn will hire great coordinators.
Brave Hokie
December 20th, 2011
10:17 am
As a VT season ticket holder, I completely agree!
2010 BCS Champs
December 20th, 2011
10:18 am
” UGA has a problem with discipline”
As do most schools. It’s because coaches have to act like “daddy” to kids whose real daddies are no where to be found.
slydog
December 20th, 2011
10:18 am
And just how many top notch players does TCU, Boise St., Florida St., Texas, Florida,etc. have? I provided the stark contrasts for a reason.It’s a two way street in some cases, but the coach has to work with what he’s got. He can’t wait on the next laptop invention in order to perfrom better on the job…lol. So, go with a 4-3, something you have the personnel for.
wrecked
December 20th, 2011
10:20 am
Gtfan, If you purged this roster of players that shouldn’t be playing D1 football Tech would only need 45 scholarships.
doc
December 20th, 2011
10:21 am
the problem with grih’s defense is he doesnt have the athletes due to second teir recruiting.
Bubba Bean
December 20th, 2011
10:21 am
Mark,
This comment may be completely off base, but……..Does not the starting defense practice against the starting offense? So, the majority of defensive reps are against the triple-option. I know you have a ’scout team’ that will run or mimic the offense of the team that will be played that week, but how proficient can they be? Could some of the defensive problems be because the defense practices against the triple-option the majority of the time?
Again, I may be way off base so anyone feel free to please enlighten me to the facts.
Roger S
December 20th, 2011
10:21 am
The defense is pretty Groh-ss. We need someone in here that can stop another team. They were giving up hundreds of yards to the small schools as well at the big schools. Of course until we get a QB that can pass consistently and they put in some quick slants and other short passes it will never be better than 6-8 wins usually seen under PJ. That is another rstory
slydog
December 20th, 2011
10:22 am
gt4ever
December 20th, 2011
10:17 am
Grantham is a JOKE, and an embarrassment to UGA and the state of Georgia…. I don’t give two cents about what his defense did… He should at minimum been disciplined, but in my day he would have been fired. Period! UGA has a problem with discipline…. Just look at their illustrious history…
I can’t disagree but also, 20 years ago, would 500 cameras, not to include camera phones, be on the sideline watching everyone’s moves, allowing the media to question personnel subbings, etc. even caught the “choke”? And the after game fuss match with Franklin would have not been a big deal 20 years ago. Back in the day, people did not whine about how less cordial a person was…Just saying.
George P Burdell, NE
December 20th, 2011
10:23 am
It all starts with the coaching. Coaches recruit players for their system based on their body of work. The coaches teach the players the skills they need to be successful in that system. The coaches field the best players they feel can get the job done.
Tech does not have the defensive players to get the job done. The under-sized line cannot get off their blocks and consistently put pressure on the quarterback, which means the linebackers have to try to compensate for their weakness. The secondary is then exposed and exploited. The players cannot cover receivers individually and do not play the zone schemes that well. The players cannot and/or are unable to tackle opposing players one-on-one.
Again, it all starts with the coaches.
Goldwhitey
December 20th, 2011
10:24 am
If you look at the linebackers we redshirted this year you should reason to be encouraged. And they are who make this defense go. Look at the size of some of those guys. If I hear one more time that we are undersized I’m going to punch someone. And what is this “no Derek Morgan in site”? What about this francis kid? He’s going to be a star.
Ted M
December 20th, 2011
10:25 am
How’s Derrick Morgan doing in the NFL? I haven’t heard anything about him.
john
December 20th, 2011
10:28 am
I think our secondary is actually pretty good and has some playmakers. I think they look worse than they are due to a lack of a pass rush.
bulldog steve
December 20th, 2011
10:31 am
I can’ understand why a team runs a defense when it does not have the players to run it effectively. That goes for any school, not just Tech. If they are not going to have any success getting the huge defensive lineman, then why not change to fit the personal and have a chance to be successful. UGA struggled its first year in the new defense, but was able to bring in the personnel to make it work and had a huge turn around. I think a lot have to do with the ego of coaches.
juvenal
December 20th, 2011
10:32 am
Mark, here is the problem-O’Leary’s players could not graduate, & got us on probation….Chan’s players were not graduating at the rate that would satisfy the new NCAA guidelines, ignoring tha fact that only 2/3rds of incoming Tech frosh get through…getting the big NT is going to be hard…….
Jim
December 20th, 2011
10:34 am
The problem is no pressure on the qb. We need a guy like D morgan. Actually two like him. Since he left we’ve had no pass rush. Add no pass rush and a clumsy offense that fumbles or throws bad ints and that’s why they lost 4 games.
bulldog steve
December 20th, 2011
10:36 am
gt4ever, Grantham is a joke? Are you serious? In your day he would have been fired? I am assuming your day was 5-6 yr old football. How do you know he was not disciplined? You my friend are an idiot and Tech deserves to have you as a fan.
PMC
December 20th, 2011
10:38 am
Oh lord, this is completely about recruiting, not coaching. Tech needs to market itself better. They need to recruit better. For all the good he has done attitude wise Johnson was massively out recruited by Gailey.
IF Chan freaking Gailey who can’t find a defense that can keep Reggie Bush from gaining 200+ yards in the pros against him can’t find Derrick Morgan. Paul Johnson should be able to as well. Maybe he should soften his abrasive attitude when trying to get 18 year olds to come play for him and stop being so hard a**ed in his approach.
Plenty of great defensive players in this state with good grades, that aspire to be more than “housing” majors. Go find them coach.
A2K
December 20th, 2011
10:40 am
I was excited when Groh was hired, thinking we would get better recruiting on the defensive side of the ball. In contrast to the offensive scheme Tech runs, running a 3-4 is real attractive to kids that want to have chance to play at the next level.
Unfortunately that has not panned out. I think we are in better shape than we should be considering the alternative, but still far away from where we need to be.
kc
December 20th, 2011
10:41 am
Bradley-I agree with basically everything you said. I can’t believe i just said that.
Old Dawg
December 20th, 2011
10:46 am
I’ve watched the spread option that Tech runs for over 20 years. Depending on quarterback play, it can be devastatingly potent or it can be equally disastrous. Washington doesn’t have the talent to run the option and passing phases and, to be perfectly honest, few athletes have those skills. I’m sure he will improve before next season; however, even with his improvement he doesn’t have the skills to improve dramatically enough to be a truly effective QB in the system.
As for the 3-4 defense, Tech needs to sign huge lineman and quick linebackers to make the alignment effective. If it doesn’t, it will be looking for a new defensive coordinator and, perhaps, a new head coach.
GTBob
December 20th, 2011
10:46 am
I think our defense can continue to get better. We have some decent recruits who redshirted last year and that will be coming in next year. We need to blitz more though. If we drop back into coverage with a three man push at the line then the QB normally gets as much time as he wants to throw. This is why we are so terrible on 3rd down. Groh needs to be more aggressive.
WnE
December 20th, 2011
10:47 am
GT’s problem is their friggin’ EGO!!
GT Fans say that we cannot Recruit for our 3-4.
Florida just got a verbal commit from a 6-3 340lb. NT that is a JUCO that has 3 yrs of Eligibility left and he had an OFFER from CAL.
I wonder if GT is just being “lazy” WRT their recruiting, he finished JUCO in 1.5 yrs. has 3 yrs of eligibility and had an OFFER from CAL, and their Academics are on par with GT’s.
Some of these players can play & do the academics at GT, but GT has beat the bushes to find them.
CPJ’s offense is the PROBLEM with CAG’s defense, not one QB on CPJ’s depth chart can “simulate” what GT’s Defense will face when playing vs. a Logan Thomas (VT), Murray (uga) or any other decent pro-style QB, if the players NEVER see it in practice, then when game-day comes they’ll be shocked at the difference in what they’re used to seeing in practice.
Combine that with the lack of top shelf WRs to go against, NO TEs to practice against, and you have CAG trying to compete with one-arm tied behind his back, ALL DUE TO CPJ’s GIMMMICKY , crappy offense.
Or should I say………….stylized offense?
Tech Fan Since 1950
December 20th, 2011
10:48 am
Oh, I don’t know about another Derrick Morgan in sight. Stay tuned. BUT, that said, Tech has had a rotating weakness on the defensive side for some time. In recent years, some seasons have had strength on the defensive line, when the secondary has been weak. Other seasons just the reverse. All that stated, this bunch of Jackets is the most athletic and fastest team Tech has had in many a year. Size is and has been the big weakness on the defensive front. Recruiting has to be the answer to that. I hope Groh stays because he acknowledged up front his first year that he has to have the proper athletes to fit his system. Each year since he has been at Tech, the defense has gotten somewhat better, not great, just better as your stats show. Tech is going to score a lot of points on a lot of teams with our “high school” offense because no one has actually stopped it cold. We score enough points to win games and with a little more passing, we will score more. The big need, as it has been since Coach Johnson came to Tech, is to stop the opponents from scoring. Do that, well you can do the math and understand the future results.
Big Time???? Not!
December 20th, 2011
10:49 am
Four tickets, four cokes, four hot dogs.
DawginLex
December 20th, 2011
10:52 am
I think Groh did about as well as he could. He still does not have the athletes to be a top flight defense. His schemes get him so far. Talent gap lost games.
Anyone think spurrier will go after him or Grantham now that johnson left to be HC at S Miss?
ahsoisee
December 20th, 2011
10:52 am
Groh must either change from a 3-4 or be dumped by Tech. He will never have anything other than a mediocre defense at Tech using the 3-4. He must change to a four man front or five man front or some balance between the two according to the offense being used against us in any given game.
It cannot be a defense that waits on the runners, it must be an attacking defense with the linemen getting into the backfield to stop plays before they develop and let the linebackers and defensive backs pick up the garbage on the runs that break through the line.
Any defense must be able to adapt from play to play according to the yardage and situation. Also, no defensive tackler shoud “ever” wait on the runner to come to him, because the runner can sidestep him and go for long yardage. A defender should “always” attack the runner and go forward toward him, keeping his eyes on the runners torso. If he does this, it is harder for the runner to elude the tackler. Also, the runner would have to take time to elude the attacking tackler, thus giving secondary tacklers a chance to get to the runner. All tackling drills should stress the defender attacking the runner rather than waiting on him to approach the tackler.
The Old Man
Tech Fan For Life
December 20th, 2011
10:52 am
Guys please stop giving Johnson a pass on his bad decisions. He came in and refused to keep Jon Tenuta. Johnson I repeat Johnson hired Groh to bring in a new defense and improve the defense. It did not happen – blame Johnson not Groh, but fire both of them if you want excellence.
As I have stated repeatedly on this site, Johnson is good coach (NOT GREAT) with a 1AA offense.
Please send him back to an academy and hire us a coach that has a shot at a championship.
GTBob
December 20th, 2011
10:53 am
WnE, it’s extremely difficult for GT to sign a JUCO player. They have to have certain requirements met for transfer that new incoming students don’t. I would think you would know that being a huge Tech fan and all.
Charlottesville
December 20th, 2011
10:55 am
Any team in the nation with a good QB and TIGHT END will light us up.Look for more of the same from the 3-4.
Kramer
December 20th, 2011
10:56 am
I agree with Mark, Tech needs to keep their coaching staff just the way it is. We UGA fans would appreciate that very much.
Kramer
December 20th, 2011
10:58 am
I agree with Mark, please keep Groh and the rest of the staff. In fact, sign Johnson to a 10 year extension. We UGA fans would appreciate it very much.
GT Dude
December 20th, 2011
10:58 am
Tech will put at least two games more in the win column next year and its not because the defense is any better, it will be the improvement in offense. I full expect that Tevin will be holding the clip board while Vad Lee is running the team. With Vad’s additional speed we will now will have break away speed.
With a half way mediocre defense we will put up 10 wins in the regular season!
JacketFan
December 20th, 2011
10:59 am
Mark, I don’t think you’ve been paying much attention to GT recruiting this year – we have some real studs coming into this defensive scheme, including Francis Kallon and a good shot at Dalvin Tomlinson. With those two beasts on the ends and some decent talent in the interior, GT will continue to improve on D with Groh at the helm.
Ramblin man
December 20th, 2011
11:00 am
So what your saying mark is teams like tcu and boise state over the past few years which were ranked highly on defense, are loaded with PLAY MAKERS? How about the same 2 and 3 star players at best and you might could argue GT gets more talent by being a product of location in georgia than those 2 teams. You make little sense yet again. IT’S COACHING!!!!!
Jacket Man
December 20th, 2011
11:00 am
GA Tech’s defense has gotten better – a lot of the offensive numbers put up against them were against the reserves after the first team had been pulled the beginning of the season. In the middle of the year, several key starters were injured and reserves stepped in for at least three games; ergo affecting points against the defense. When healthy, GA Tech’s first team Defense actually played quite well.
Depth and experience was being built this past season, and, hopefully, with another year under Coach Groh’s “coaching” under their belts, the defense will be even better next season because he will be more comfortable opening up his playbook and dialing up more blitzes, etc. so that sacks and run blitzes can be called.
GTBob
December 20th, 2011
11:02 am
I’m sure he will improve before next season
I think most Tech fans will be disappointed if Washington is the QB next year. He has had more then enough time to improve already.
WnE
December 20th, 2011
11:04 am
Are GT’s Academics that much better than Cal-Berekley?
The JUCO NT in question graduated in 1.5 years and had an offer from Cal.
GT needs to look under every stone to find guys like this, he went to a JUCO in Calif. which is much different from the JUCOs you find in Miss. or from GMC in Milledgeville.
Aaron Rodgers was a JUCO that went to Cal also, if Cal cal get a JUCO then some of them have to be able to qualify for GT.
Too many GT fans always assume the NEGATIVE when anyone mentions a JUCO.
Ramblin man
December 20th, 2011
11:07 am
boise state?? Boise state has had 1 recruiting class in past 6 years even inside the top 35 in the country. They play far better defense than we do. Why? We dont sign the 300 lbs hogs that is required in this scheme (3-4) to clog the middle. Our linebackers are not talented enough to take on lineman. Thus, the domination we have all witnessed in our losses this year by teams with a superior line. Gt will not be successful in the 3-4 period. It will continue to be an offensive outburst that saves the day as usual. Some of this relates to poor recruiting on the defensive line as well. Groh is not aggressive and thats why we are terrible in sacks. How many times does he draw up a blitz??? Not often
Technically Correct
December 20th, 2011
11:07 am
An excellent piece. Groh is getting his players into position. Getting players into the right position is one thing – having them big enough and strong enough and fast enough and mean enough to overpower the opponent is quite another. Tech just doesn’t get “Dream Team” players and that is a function of (1) Tech’s offensive scheme, which overshadows everything, (2) the overwhelming media slant towards UGA in this state, (4) the academics thing and (3) a good HC, but one who probably lacks some of the “people skills” that may be necessary to relate to 17 -18 years old, who have been told by everyone that they are the greatest things since sliced bread. Maybe CPJ relates better to “blue collar’ players that 5-star phenomena. Sorry, but I can’t see CPJ calling prospects to wish them “Happy Birthday” or flying in to see them on helicopters or, generally, kissing their you-know-whats, either. CPJ seems like a tough football coach, not a saleman or showman. So, it is what it is…
gtfanfrom1951
December 20th, 2011
11:08 am
Gt Bob
You got right. we need a change at QB!
gt4ever
December 20th, 2011
11:08 am
WnE,
It has nothing to do with academics… It’s the head coach inability to recruit at a high level…
GTBob
December 20th, 2011
11:12 am
Are GT’s Academics that much better than Cal-Berekley?
No they are not, but it is harder to transfer into GT from a junior college then it is to transfer to Cal from a junior college. Here is an example. To transfer into GT into the Management program which most football players take you have to have taken Calc 1, Calc 2, and two semesters of lab science at your previous school. On top of that you have to meet certain hour requirements and GPA requirements. Its not exactly easy to find a JUCO who can meet this.
WnE
December 20th, 2011
11:18 am
re:
GTBob
December 20th, 2011
11:12 am
________________
How can GT Fans continue to play the Academics card when guys like Stephon Marbury, LaVonya Quintelle Carter (aka Quincy Carter), and Adam “Pac Man” Jones were all academic “qualifiers” for admission to GT.
At some point the GT fanbase will have to admit that the Academics card is over-played by the GT fanbase.
The Business Admin . program at GT is not the only Academic program at GT, S. Hill is majoring in Sociology according to his bio on Ramblingwreck. com.
Buck Belue
December 20th, 2011
11:20 am
What’s a ‘Calc 1′?
SF Eagle Fan
December 20th, 2011
11:21 am
I say if you want a sure fire playmaker on defense, Tech needs to play Kyle Travis(the freshman from South Forsyth) The guy is a monster in the 3-4, 4-3, just play him and watch your national ranking on defense go up.