SI.com wonders: Does Matt Ryan still have room to grow?
Matty Ice asks Harry D.: "Do I look mature to you?" (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
After Sunday’s nervous victory over Minnesota, Falcons coach Mike Smith spoke of Matt Ryan — who’d had his best game of the season — and the “maturation process.” Which sounded a bit odd, given that we around here have, fairly or not, never considered Ryan anything less than mature. He was a starter from Game 1 of Year 1, and he’s 26 now. Speaking of which …
Jim Trotter of SI.com offers a look at four NFL quarterbacks — all of whom were drafted in Round 1 in 2008 or 2009, all of whom had almost immediate success, none of whom are having a noteworthy statistical season in 2011. The four: Mark Sanchez of the Jets, Joe Flacco of the Raves, Josh Freeman of the Bucs … and Matt Ryan.
Trotter makes the case that, because more collegiate quarterbacks are playing in pro-style offenses, more quarterback draftees enter the NFL ready to play from Game 1 of Year 1. But he also writes:
It also could mean that QBs are coming into the league with less room to improve than they did a decade ago, when offenses were more ground-oriented. If true, could fans and some owners be setting themselves up for frustration and disappointment if the players fail to reach elite status before their first contracts expire?
Confronted with this argument, Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff — who drafted Ryan with the third overall pick in 2008 — told Trotter this: “It never came up in conversation that maybe [Ryan] had maxed out because of the system he had been under. But it’s interesting that you would think that way. Maybe there is something to it.”
Toward the end of Trotter’s story we hear from Dimitroff again, and this time he addresses a point yours truly has been batting around, sort of, since the end of Ryan’s second season: That Matty Ice could be closer to Eli Manning than to brother Peyton — a very good quarterback but not quite a great one. Said Dimitroff:
There are some very valid levels below that elite [quarterback] level that can allow organizations to be successful and make runs at Super Bowls. Everyone needs to understand that. Owners and team builders and head coaches need to realize that you can win with very good quarterbacks. They don’t have to necessarily be the elite quarterback of the league to be successful as a team.
Is this a concession from TD the GM, or just a reflection of reality? (The latter, I’d say.) But I advise you to real the article for yourself. And thanks to reader Steve Young of Alpharetta – who’s not, I’m assuming, the Steve Young who succeeded Joe Montana in San Fran — for bringing it to my attention.
By Mark Bradley
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268 comments Add your comment
The Truth
December 2nd, 2011
3:04 pm
Ryan was drafted for his image, and that alone. He is not an elite QB, and does not possess the skill set to become one of the game’s best. I love the Falcons, but they need to go another direction at the QB position.
GTT
December 2nd, 2011
3:06 pm
How to you have a weak arm, if you overthrow every deep ball, geniuses? It’s no touch, not no strength.
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
3:11 pm
Chris, you so far off it is just strange…The game that jump started Rodgers was the Lions game last year in Detroit. After he was knocked out, he came back other worldly! He passed for 396 in the Meadowsland the next week and from that moment on, it was game, set, match Packers…
GTT
December 2nd, 2011
3:11 pm
Touch is where the ball goes and when it gets there. Ryan lacks that on many throws.
word
December 2nd, 2011
3:19 pm
Me Too called it early and right. Ryan is only limited by the offensive coordination. He stands out on his no huddle offense but is still very raw and young. Coaching that correctly could put him alongside with the more effective qb’s.
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
3:24 pm
Somewhere Bruce Coslett is laughing at the “no huddle” is a cure all of his shortcomings talk…
The Truth
December 2nd, 2011
3:27 pm
Ryan will never be anything more than a middle of the road QB. That is a fact.
Cutty
December 2nd, 2011
3:32 pm
The Truth My friend you nailed it on the head. I said it 1000 times the team was so anxious to get get passed the Vick incident that they reached for the first quarterback that they saw. Honestly as god as my witness I feel the Chris Redman would put up equal or better numbers that Matt Ryan if given the same chance. Matty Ice should give Vick and his convict buddies half his pay because they got it for him. LOL
Die Hard Falcon
December 2nd, 2011
3:38 pm
Matt Ryan is a terrific young talent. I cannot predict the future to know if he’ll ever be “Elite”, depending on how a person defines it. I do KNOW that he is NOT an average or below average QB, he is in the top 10 right now in his 4th year. I don’t believe he’s hit his ceiling, I think if they start opening up this offense and he gets a full season (and offseason) w/ Julio, he’ll start getting in sync on deep routes. He certainly doesn’t possess elite arm strength but neither did Montana. Bottom line is all these haters can bugger off, he’s the best QB the Falcons have ever had and the wins can attest to this. If we’re fortunate enough to have Mularkey go elsewhere this offseason, and we can bring in Josh McDaniels or Norv Turner or some brilliant playcaller, Ryan will be top 5 in the league, bank on it. He’s played very well, and while they have finally put talent around him this year, the OL has been a liability, Brady has all day to pass, if Ryan played in that system with that protection, he could be just as good, that last part of course is opinion.
Go FALCONS! Go Matty ICE! Go to HELL all haters!!!!
Bobo is Not the Problem
December 2nd, 2011
3:40 pm
Good grief. He’s a middle-of-the-pack QB. Of course, there’s room to grow. This headline would be appropriate for Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Manning. But not Ryan. How about growing in the area of “accuracy”? Not being high and wide? Leading receivers so we can get some YAC?
The Truth
December 2nd, 2011
3:42 pm
I love how all of a sudden not being delusional = being a hater.
Innocent Bystander
December 2nd, 2011
3:45 pm
ATLER: I’m not sure where you are getting your WAG about the Falcon’s inability to score TDs in the redzone. Currently, they’re ranked 9th in redzone TD %, one spot above NO, who is QB’d by someone I’m sure you would qualify as “elite.”
Don’t you hate it when actual stats debunk your theorycrafting?
http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
3:48 pm
The drop-off between the Top 8 passers is huge!!! He (Ryan) is even behind the highly inconsistent Tony Romo… If you read the Trotter article, he hits on all the points in stark language from Thomas Dimitroff… It is the first time that Thomas has been honest in how describes Matt Ryan (and QBs like him)…
Howdy Doody in a Helmet
December 2nd, 2011
3:50 pm
QBs are graded on how they peform in the clutch. 3rd down and 5+ in regular season, road games and meaningful games in record in January. Ryan has proven to be a good game manager, but not one who has performed well in the key clutch moments to earn an elite status moniker.
We hope he can continue to progress. Concerns are QB rating on throws 20+ yds down field, where he is at the bottom of the heap in the NFL despite having White, Gonzalez, Julio and HD as downfield targets. He has proven to be a bit timid in the pocket and when leaving the pocket is more concerned about sliding short vs. moving the chains. Big on checkdowns, throw aways. Accuracy has also been an issue for him, even on intermediate routes.
Hopefully he will develop into a “play-making” QB. Brees in SD was good, now elite in the Big Easy. We have hope, I hope!
I Wonder
December 2nd, 2011
3:53 pm
If you tell haters to go to hell, doesn’t that make you hater as well?
heartofdarkness
December 2nd, 2011
3:56 pm
Which coach on the Falcons got his pro creds by developing professional passers? Which coach on the Falcons is known throughout the league as an offensive guru? It was never the plan, to my eye, to run a high octane passing attack in Atlanta under Dimitroff-Smiith. In their deepest, darkest visions, Falcons management envisioned Billy Wade handing off to Gayle Sayers.
old man
December 2nd, 2011
4:01 pm
I’m impressed with the posts describing great QBs–like Brees–who really hit their stride only after several years in the league.
Only two players touch the ball on every offensive play, and let’s forget about the center. So if your QB has enough to be a winner for your team, you need to stick with him and structure what you do around him. Ryan’s weaknesses, in order:
1. Mobility/extending the play
2. Long throw strength/accuracy (this is way overblown, in my opinion)
His strengths, in order:
1. Bad habit of winning a lot
1. Play calling/reading defenses
2. Short and intermediate throw strength and accuracy
2. Quiet leadership
Whining about his weaknesses doesn’t help. Choosing personnel, calling plays, going no-huddle all the time, etc., which maximize his strengths, does help. If we do these things we will just fine.
Die Hard Falcon
December 2nd, 2011
4:02 pm
Truth–
I can only assume its hating. I KNOW it’s NOT delusional to say he’s top 10 currently in the league. I would be curious who you would put ahead of him. Saying someone is average or middle of the pack w/o anything to back it up or say who’s better than him is not “a fact”.
Ryan is definitely the best QB the Falcons have ever had and I would like to know who’s better if that’s not true. I would also like to know if we can agree or not that he’s in the top 10, and if not, who do you put ahead of him?
I have massive respect for him as a player and as a person, that doesn’t make me or any of my statements delusional, and if others statements aren’t based in evidence, then that would be hating for the sake of hating. I’m not painting him as the 2nd coming just stating he’s top 10, good enough for us to win consistently and I believe eventually at an elite level (meaning our team not necessarily him). He has all the intangibles of staying calm and making plays at the end of games for comebacks. Go Falcons and true Falcons Fans! Go Matty Ice!
DCBrave33
December 2nd, 2011
4:08 pm
Has anyone around here noticed how fantastic Matt Ryan has played since out offensive line became more stable? He struggled in a few games early (as well as showed fantastic heart and ability in a gutty comeback against the Eagles) when his offensive line couldn’t keep him clean for more than a split-second.
Ryan has shown and hopefully will continue to show the ability to be a pro bowl QB that can lead a team to a Super Bowl. I don’t know how much more “elite” you want from him.
Just like Brady, Brees, Manning…if you dont keep them clean, they will look pedestrian. Rodgers on the other hand, he is playing unworldly. Congrats to him, but you can’t ever reasonably EXPECT that kind of production from your QB.
Die Hard Falcon
December 2nd, 2011
4:10 pm
I WONDER–
Perhaps it is a bit hateful. I retract my statement about going to hell. I get testy about people bashing my teams QB, especially when I feel it’s undeserved. I still believe it is hating going on, I’ve been coming on these blogs for about a year and so many Ryan haters that are just negative Monday morning QB’s.
MR2 is in the top 10, and so is our team, I think both will progress higher in the next 2 years. Go Falcons!
D man
December 2nd, 2011
4:23 pm
I think Matt is a great young QB that has plenty of room to grow. Once he wins a playoff game and a couple of other “big” games, we will all see improvement. That is where he has lacked so far. After he beat NO and Baltimore last year, I could see a step up in his game. He just needs a few more of those type wins under his belt. He does great winning the games we are suppose to win.
D man
December 2nd, 2011
4:34 pm
Matt just needs to get fired up a little more before the big games. I’m an athlete and I have always found that if I get myself “up” for a game, I always perform at a higher level. Maybe he needs to hire Ray Lewis to teach him how to get fired up before a game.
GTT
December 2nd, 2011
4:56 pm
“Ryan is definitely the best QB the Falcons have ever had and I would like to know who’s better if that’s not true.”
Steve Bartkowski
GTT
December 2nd, 2011
4:58 pm
But, Ryan has a chance to surpass him and I hope he does. He’s clutch, although his overthrows and sliding short of the sticks is maddening.
Ted M
December 2nd, 2011
4:59 pm
Bobby Hebert was better
Ted M
December 2nd, 2011
5:00 pm
One thing is for sure Ryan is not and likely never going to beat Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs
Mr Charlie
December 2nd, 2011
5:10 pm
Ryan’s career head to head record to Rogers is 2-2. No reason to think we can’t beat him…
Whopper Dawg
December 2nd, 2011
5:29 pm
I thought this would be a critical year for Ryan. In his fourth year, with two supposedly elite WRs, HOF TE and a pro bowl RB and FB. What more could you ask for?
So far, the returns have been mixed. Problems with the deep ball and accuracy overall, in addition, in big games, seems to play his worse.
That being said MM does him no favors. The ballyhooed Jones trade in the name of more explosive plays has been mediocre at best.
Looks like Ryan will be a good to occasionally very good QB, but not an elite one.
Mr Charlie
December 2nd, 2011
5:39 pm
Ryans upside is his ability to master the no huddle, call plays, get match ups, etc. He had not had a great year, but ever since our line stablized, he has gotten steadily better. I liken him to Tom Brady, he needs protection, not very mobile, and takes what is there, not afraid to check down.
Brady was great at the Long ball, only when he had great deep receivers….Funny how that works.
Mr Charlie
December 2nd, 2011
5:55 pm
Why don’t we talk about MV7 anymore, and his epic fail, and how I pointed out that team had no O-line or heart. And how I said that MV7 would be knocked out for the season by week 8. I mean, he used to be a pretty lively topic, what happened to all his advocates? Did they realize he was a quitter?
CUTTY
December 2nd, 2011
6:02 pm
Mr. charlie,
In case you didn’t know Mike Vick doesn’t play for the Falcons anymore. He plays in Philadelphia. what reason do falcons fans on the atlanta journal constitution.com falcons blog have to discuss him. Grow up. We don’t about Mike Vick. we are talking about our noddle armed quarterback. have a nice day.
Cutty
Ivan
December 2nd, 2011
6:10 pm
Charlie,
They’ve pretty much run out of ammunition aside from the fact Ryan hasn’t won a Super Bowl yet. Ryan is still winning, Vick is sitting out, on his losing team.
And I’ll one up ya, Vick will end up getting Reid fired.
ATLER (Ramblin Wreck)
December 2nd, 2011
6:44 pm
@ Innocent Bystander
I don’t care about your freaking stats that you pull up. The last few game our Falcons drove down the field only to kick field goals. Look at the stats from last year and on paper we should have destroyed Green Bay. The game is played on the field not a website. How do you keep letting weaker team hang in the ball game with you instead of closing them out? Don’t worry, the other team will look at our offensive ranking and bow down. Get smarter dude ( Innocent Bystander )
The Truth
December 2nd, 2011
6:47 pm
Chris Miller won in the playoffs…as did Chris Chandler, fwiw. Stafford, Romo, Shaub, Rivers, Brady, Flacco, Brees, Rogers, Rothlisberger, Eli and Payton Manning – in no particular order.
Ryan is absolutely a good game manager, but he doesn’t have the capacity to take over a game – and he most certainly is not worthy of being a top 5 pick in the NFL draft.
ATLER (Ramblin Wreck)
December 2nd, 2011
6:48 pm
To all of the REAL Atlanta Falcon fans.
When will this state and delusional fan around the country stop trying to make an average, mediocre team out of a fairly tale NFL Superbowl contender. Can someone help me out with that question?
ATLER (Ramblin Wreck)
December 2nd, 2011
6:58 pm
Preach ( The Truth ) Preach!!!!
No one said he’s not a good QB, he’s not what Atlanta needs to make it to the next level or ever win a playoff game.
Great Falconi
December 2nd, 2011
7:02 pm
Ryan’s been damn good for us. Maybe he’ll pull a Brady and have his first big-time quarterbacking season later on in his career, but even if he never approaches Brady’s 2007-08 breakout campaign, I feel confident in his ability to spread the ball around accurately. The dude’s completion percentage is one-tenth below his career-high of 62.5 from last season. I want to win playoff games like the rest of you, but we’ve all complained enough about other aspects of this team to know that Ryan’s not one of the main culprits in holding this team back.
realitycheck
December 2nd, 2011
7:03 pm
He reminds me of Marc Bulger. Bulger looked so good early on with the Rams, and because of his youth, they gave him the job and moved Kurt Warner. But Bulger’s teams started to decline, and he started to get beaten up and slowly disappeared out of the league. I don’t think that will happen to Ryan, but I do see a lot of similarities between the two former Big East QB’s, and their numbers (including playoffs) are erie similar.
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
7:11 pm
I wondered how long it would be before one of the four “Vick Is The Anti-Christ” blogger would show up and try to breathe life into their tired old argument? It hasn’t changed since May 2007. When Michael Vick is on a playing field, then I’ll be happy to address the matter. If it were all about Vick or just skin hue (as your vivid imaginations cry out for) , then folks would have been lining up behind Vince Young (as a savior), or D.J.. Shockley… Now there a few crazy people calling for Shockley. I was not one of them, the Falcons never did a thing to prepare him to get better (NFL Europe). I say the same thing about the over matched John Parker Wilson. They’re not Matt Cassell tolling besides Brady and getting to pick great offensive minds (or being able to comprehend it either)… What is wrong with the Eagles has so little to do with QB play that is comical. Still, you keep going there, like the little boys in the school yard that never learn a new joke because their range never improves… So keep harping on Vick, as Dimitroff said in the article: “But it’s not like we spent hours upon hours ruminating about it as it pertains to their technique or knowledge. A lot of teams are looking for the raw skills that these quarterbacks possess and project from there. It never came up in conversation that maybe he had maxed out because of the system he had been under. But it’s interesting that you would think that way. Maybe there is something to it.”
SawThat1nce
December 2nd, 2011
7:22 pm
I’m not an expert, but it looks like the GM should work on getting a stronger OLine and a quicker pass rush.
Sam
December 2nd, 2011
7:25 pm
Amazing video of a high school senior from Columbia TN who kicks the ball dead straight 75-80 yards in the air. He was successful on 54 of 54 attempts this season….100%. Now he needs a college team.
Watch for yourself…it is unreal!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_JKwgwFY3g
D man
December 2nd, 2011
8:02 pm
Sam – Alabama sure needs a kicker. They would be playing my Dawgs tomorrow if they had one…
BlahBlahBlah
December 2nd, 2011
9:27 pm
Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Roethlisberger are the only 4 in the top tier this year. Ryan’s #10 in QB rating. That puts him solidly in the 2nd tier. Meanwhile, Sanchez is 19th, Freeman is 28th and Flacco is 22nd. It’s not even fair to lump Ryan in with that trio this year!
72 Million Dollar Bust
December 2nd, 2011
9:34 pm
Room to grow? Where is the proof?
4 Years and ZERO Playoff wins?
Where is the growth?
I do believe Baltimore & New York have a pair of qbs that grew in their rookie seasons.
brog
December 2nd, 2011
9:38 pm
Matty’s struggles to start the year can be traced back to how bad the offensive line played. He had zero time to throw the ball and when I did Roddy White was busy not gettiing open or dropping everything. Thank god for Tony this year I BEG you to come back, great security blanket. But the past couple of games the O-Line has played pretty well and Matty has started to get hot. He looked good vs Ten, he looked good vs NO and looked great last week. Most of the tougher matchups were early on so lets hope Matty is currently taking that next step and will prove over the remainder of the season that he his an elite QB
72 Million Dollar Bust
December 2nd, 2011
9:44 pm
Falcons fan base is head down a dangerous road. When you are willing to settle for second rate performance, that is like a marriage of convenience.
Just because you hated the previous qb so bad, it’s not going to change the fact that he is the last qb to win a playoff game for this team. Hatred never has positive results. I don’t hate Ryan, I just question the die hard fans who praise him for showing up and running a no huddle. How many playoff games has that no huddle produced?
It has been 8 seasons since the Falcons have won a playoff game, and 4 under this regime, yet there is no urgency, no push, no pressure from the fan base or the local media.
It’s almost like the fan base is so used to losing, that they feel like the Falcons are champions just because they make the playoffs, yet consistently are eliminated in the 1st round. In cities like New York, Green Bay, Baltimore and Pittsburg, if their qb has 4 years as a starter and not a single playoff win to show for it, that qb will be ran out of town.
Falcons fans need to make up their minds: Do they want a winner or a wanna be winner. You can praise Ryan until the cows come home, but it is not going to make him a winner.
P B Orr
December 2nd, 2011
10:01 pm
72 Million Dollar Bust – I made up my mind ages ago when I was a Falcons fan for a mediocre but improving team. I loved the team because they worked hard and didn’t quit. I learned a lot more about football from that, than I did watching the Cowboys and Steelers.
Delbert D.
December 2nd, 2011
10:20 pm
I think he does. Read the story in the NY Times, “The Education of Aaron Rodgers.” It’s online.
Mr Charlie
December 2nd, 2011
10:58 pm
JSS ” What is wrong with the Eagles has so little to do with QB play that is comical”.
Their 100 Mil QB has 11 TD, 11 picks, and 2 fumbles, and 1000 yards passing But NOOOO, that has NOTHING to do with anything. Maybe Ryans numbers are not “elite”, but MV7 numbers whatever the opposite of elite is. I do think somebody is in denial….And I do not think Vick is the antichrist, but he is who I thought he was. And since the eagles played, I feel it is very appropriate to bring him up.
Michael M.
December 2nd, 2011
11:32 pm
In four or five more years ask this same question about Matt Ryan. There’s an old song called, We have only just begun. It will only get better with Ryan in the years ahead. Some of the sports peeps will be eating their own words after Ryan’s Career is over and in the history books !