SI.com wonders: Does Matt Ryan still have room to grow?
Matty Ice asks Harry D.: "Do I look mature to you?" (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
After Sunday’s nervous victory over Minnesota, Falcons coach Mike Smith spoke of Matt Ryan — who’d had his best game of the season — and the “maturation process.” Which sounded a bit odd, given that we around here have, fairly or not, never considered Ryan anything less than mature. He was a starter from Game 1 of Year 1, and he’s 26 now. Speaking of which …
Jim Trotter of SI.com offers a look at four NFL quarterbacks — all of whom were drafted in Round 1 in 2008 or 2009, all of whom had almost immediate success, none of whom are having a noteworthy statistical season in 2011. The four: Mark Sanchez of the Jets, Joe Flacco of the Raves, Josh Freeman of the Bucs … and Matt Ryan.
Trotter makes the case that, because more collegiate quarterbacks are playing in pro-style offenses, more quarterback draftees enter the NFL ready to play from Game 1 of Year 1. But he also writes:
It also could mean that QBs are coming into the league with less room to improve than they did a decade ago, when offenses were more ground-oriented. If true, could fans and some owners be setting themselves up for frustration and disappointment if the players fail to reach elite status before their first contracts expire?
Confronted with this argument, Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff — who drafted Ryan with the third overall pick in 2008 — told Trotter this: “It never came up in conversation that maybe [Ryan] had maxed out because of the system he had been under. But it’s interesting that you would think that way. Maybe there is something to it.”
Toward the end of Trotter’s story we hear from Dimitroff again, and this time he addresses a point yours truly has been batting around, sort of, since the end of Ryan’s second season: That Matty Ice could be closer to Eli Manning than to brother Peyton — a very good quarterback but not quite a great one. Said Dimitroff:
There are some very valid levels below that elite [quarterback] level that can allow organizations to be successful and make runs at Super Bowls. Everyone needs to understand that. Owners and team builders and head coaches need to realize that you can win with very good quarterbacks. They don’t have to necessarily be the elite quarterback of the league to be successful as a team.
Is this a concession from TD the GM, or just a reflection of reality? (The latter, I’d say.) But I advise you to real the article for yourself. And thanks to reader Steve Young of Alpharetta – who’s not, I’m assuming, the Steve Young who succeeded Joe Montana in San Fran — for bringing it to my attention.
By Mark Bradley
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268 comments Add your comment
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
12:29 pm
Being close is not being there, all the “real elite QBs” are already getting ready to shatter the 3600 range at the 11 game mark. He already have the 400 attempts range and only about 2900 yards. Brady on the other hand, 421 attempts and 3887 yards…Explain it as you like, he taking massive attempts and getting minimun returns. He has to average 2 TDs a game just to get to his last year total… Nearly 500 attempts on this pace, and he only cranks out a 4,000 yard season… That is weak, go look at the historic output of 500 attempt QBs and their numbers….
P B Orr
December 2nd, 2011
12:32 pm
The Packers were not over-talented. They were not even the best team of the mid-to-late 60s – that would be the Colts. But they avoided key injuries and they had a work-ethic based system, and they had two guys at the helm who had their heads on straight – Lombardi and Starr, who made a perfect team. I get the same feeling about Smith and Ryan.
Jack in Macon
December 2nd, 2011
12:33 pm
My problem is this: Ryan is very inaccurate throwing the deep pass. Why did we give us so much to draft Julio Jones? Because we wanted a deep threat at wide receiver. The two just don’t add up… In my opinion a bad decision for TD to give up so much for Jones. We still have a problem getting off the field on third down and there are other needs that needed to be addresses in that draft.
I’m a 40+ year Falcon fan but I just can’t get excited about this team being in the Super Bowl much less winning it…. Anything short of that is meaningless.
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
12:46 pm
Smith and Ryan can never be mentioned in the same breath with Lombardi and Starr, not even in jest… The 60s Packers only needed to taste failure once in a playoff scenario (NFC Championship 1960), they never let it happen again! Ryan and Smith have never adjusted to being punched in the mouth!!!
Hillbilly D
December 2nd, 2011
12:49 pm
The 1960’s Packers also had a very good OL and a hell of a defense. Jim Taylor and Paul Hornung didn’t hurt either.
Dr. Warren
December 2nd, 2011
12:52 pm
I agree with Mike. I would add that Matt Ryan passes the “frustrate you” test. I can’t remember a game that ended with me cursing Ryan for dumb mistakes or uninspired play. Sure, he is never going to be Rodgers/Brady/Brees, but the problems I’ve seen could be traced to the play-calling or other personnel.
doc
December 2nd, 2011
12:53 pm
why did the chargers let go brees at a similar age? did they feel he had risen as high as he could and took rivers to be the next great franchise qb?
didnt work out did it?
same could be true of ryan, that he could have another gear to go. especially, if he truly has the no huddle down.
i also think it is better to have a very good qb than to keep trying for the next peyton. grass is greener … not always, bird in hand … less risk, arguments apply.
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
12:55 pm
Run to Daylight… Kramer and Gregg!!!
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
12:58 pm
Brees was coming off a really serious shoulder reconstruction… They just lost faith that he could make it back and it was his contract year… It was simple as that…
GTT
December 2nd, 2011
12:58 pm
I’m starting to doubt it. He can’t hit the deep ball or sideline throws. He overthrows them about 60 percent of the time. And, twice now he has slid short of the sticks in a situation where his team needed a first down. Hmmmmm.
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
1:02 pm
The Pittsburgh game he failed the “frustrates you test.” The Philly game last year he really failed it… The Green Bay games, wow he failed those no doubt…
Hillbilly D
December 2nd, 2011
1:08 pm
JSS
Saw an interview a while back with Deacon Jones. He said Forrest Gregg was the toughest guy he ever went up against. He said a lot of guys will hit you and then let up but Gregg hit you and stayed on you until the play was over.
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
1:12 pm
Hillbilly he was that, I watch the Green Bay-NY Giants championship game every now and then and just marvel at the Packers line play, Gregg was just a beast…
Joe Tess Fish House
December 2nd, 2011
1:22 pm
Uhhh…Everone no Ryan is not that grate. In fact I pointed B 4 many times he is a first round bust.
Hillbilly D
December 2nd, 2011
1:23 pm
JSS
They were an amazing team. I was a kid then, so some of my memories of them are hazy but they just dominated line play in most games. Vince Lombardi didn’t believe in blitzing much either. He said blitzing was covering up a weakness that you needed to fix.
Another wise thing he did was design his game plan to run right at a team’s strength. His reasoning was that most teams run away from a team’s strength, so that’s what they are used to and that’s how they game plan. Of course, you have to be good to pull that off. lol
Joe Tess Fish House
December 2nd, 2011
1:24 pm
And 2 thing that the Flacons got rid of Vick and Matt Schwaub.
karl
December 2nd, 2011
1:29 pm
Matt Ryan is clearly capable of winning a Super Bowl. But he does need a strong supporting cast. But then again, who doesn’t? Think Dan Marino.
P B Orr
December 2nd, 2011
1:36 pm
There are surely as many Colts from that era as Packers in the HOF. Unitas was better, for far longer, than Starr. They won more regular season games. What the Packers had was a determined system and the brains to apply the right force in the right place, as well as some plain old breaks. You can’t analyze football as a series of stats that fit well on ESPN.
MEGO
December 2nd, 2011
1:39 pm
What does Vick have to do with this?? Is it deflection? Matt, can’t throw the long ball or any out…..does not have the arm strength and he looks pretty Jittery in the pocket IMHO.
Vick Fan
December 2nd, 2011
1:46 pm
Matt Ryan will win this team a championship
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
1:49 pm
People like PB Orr miss the point… It is not whether Unitas or Starr were better than the other. They rarely left opportunities on the table… The Packers, Colts, and Browns (to a lesser extent Bears and Giants) waged shear death matches during that period… Screw that ESPN analogy too, we grew up watching it in front of us before we were doomed to having to watch the Falcons every Sunday…
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
1:53 pm
“Vick” has nothing to do with this, it was the typical AJC blogger comment on pg 1 bringing his name into it when no one had an intention to mention him… Sideways insults…
DeportMalarkey
December 2nd, 2011
1:55 pm
If Tom Brady played for the Falcons he would not be the elite quarterback he is. Defenses don’t know what the Patriots will do on any give play. Defenses can stack against the Falcons because they are so predictable. So Ryan having the outstanding win/loss record he has shows he can play even when defenses know what is coming.
Can Ryan throw with amazing consistency like Brees? No. But neither can Peyton Manning.
The Falcons ALWASY have trouble closing because Malarky has no balls and gets very conservative the moment the Falcons get a lead.
Fred Macmurray
December 2nd, 2011
1:56 pm
Kudos Joe Tess,, I believe thats the first time you’ve ever spelled “First” correctly,,,, But Matt Schwaub, good one.
Innocent Bystander
December 2nd, 2011
2:01 pm
Can Matt Ryan continue to grow and improve? Yes, but I believe it is entirely dependent on the coaching staff putting him into a position to succeed. I find it very telling indeed that the Falcons offense marches up and down the field at will when Matt is running the Texas offense, yet they can’t maintain any semblance of consistency when Mularkey is radioing the plays into the huddle. I honestly believe there is a disconnect between what is happening on the field and what MM sees from the coaches booth. It’s my opinion that they need to “take the training wheels off” and give Matt full control of the offense. Continue fielding 3 receiver sets to keep the defense guessing between pass and run, and we should only be huddling up on 4th and inches or on a potential game changing play.
Ryan highly over hyped and their GM
December 2nd, 2011
2:04 pm
yes he can grow. But will he, I think he has done all he is going to do. If the run game is gone so is he. Deep pass still weak arm. But keep hoping. You gave up a lot for J.Jone and it is just not paying off for what you gave up MR. GM!!
Old Falcon Fan
December 2nd, 2011
2:08 pm
Second tier NFL QB. Of course, Brady, Brees and Rodgers have set the first tier bar pretty high.
Cohutta Dawgman
December 2nd, 2011
2:11 pm
Would still rather have Matty Ice than the other 3 mentioned in the article.
Hillbilly D
December 2nd, 2011
2:11 pm
One further point about Johnny Unitas and Bart Starr, in those days, QB’s called their own plays. That was a strength of both of them, play calling.
ATLER (Ramblin Wreck)
December 2nd, 2011
2:17 pm
Ryan’s arm strength and mobility is his biggest down falls. If you look at the elite QBs in the league today, you’d see how the scramble around in the pocket to buy time and make plays. If you go back and watch ole slow Matty Ice he freaks out and panics when he’s forced out the pocket. To add to that, he’s not mobile at all. The Falcons don’t have that killer instinct that the other elite teams have and that’s why we’ll stay an average team. And that goes for all of our professional teams.
AlpharettaGuy
December 2nd, 2011
2:19 pm
Ryan is not a bad QB but your chances of winning SB go down when you don’t have one of the few elite–Rodgers, Brees, Brady. Falcons are close but need some pieces to get far in the playoffs. Julio is great but his price tag may prevent some of those pieces from getting here!
AlpharettaGuy
December 2nd, 2011
2:22 pm
ATLER makes a good point–Matty is not the athlete that many other QBs are. When he runs on 3rd down, he’ll slide 2 yards short of marker rather than try to make a move to get the first down. He’s not nimble when out of the pocket. So, you have to try to frame the offense around his strengths as best you can…kind of an ‘anti-Tebow’ approach.
P B Orr
December 2nd, 2011
2:25 pm
ALTER, what world are you living in? Despite getting regularly pummeled in the early part of the season, Ryan was 4-3 and could easily have been 6-1. He rolls out great and can throw on the run. No, he’s not a scrambler but neither is any other of the good QBs in the league. Jesus, all you have to do is watch the game. He was nearly perfect last week because he’s getting protection now. Are you folks blind??
ATLER (Ramblin Wreck)
December 2nd, 2011
2:25 pm
I think Matt Ryan has a strong supporting cast offensively. So don’t try to say he needs help. That’s a bunch of crap!!!!! (For the person who left the comment about Ryan needing help)
P B Orr
December 2nd, 2011
2:27 pm
No wonder the country hates Atlanta fans. They can’t process simple visual information from the television. Ryan is 6′4″ and 220 lbs – not a good athlete? WTF?? He got his ankle stepped on by a 300 lb dude and was back the next play! The only games he’s missed in 4 years were caused by a bad toe!
The Falconator
December 2nd, 2011
2:28 pm
If you want to see Ryan progress faster, then stop doing the primary thing (aside from arm strength issues) that’s holding him back. Take play-calling away from Mularkey and give it to the obviously much more aware and cerebral Ryan and run the no-huddle with greater frequency. Then tell Van Gorder to give up his love affair with that miserably frustrating and inept soft zone defense. If the DB’s can’t cover man-to-man, then you’ve spent a great deal of money on the wrong talent.
jfreak13713
December 2nd, 2011
2:30 pm
Ryan is a really good QB and I’m proud to have him on this team. Just look at Philly with Vick and they are a mess! Vick with all his talent seems to either associate with or create a mess in the locker room?? Is Matt Ryan equal to Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, or Drew Brees probably not on most Sundays but he is good enough win! Ryan seems more comfortable in New England style offense where plays are called at line and the pace is much faster. Ryan is a FULL COURT PG not a half court offensive QB??
crackbaby
December 2nd, 2011
2:31 pm
@Objective fan
“Mularkey is a nice coach, but he’s never been on the level of those other coaches. It’s tough for me to judge Ryan until they find a better playcaller who will bring in a more passer-friendly scheme.”
Bingo! Couldn’t agree more. When the Falcons play the Patriots, Pack, Bears, etc. they look like a minor league franchise. Mularkey’s WR routes leave something to be desired – the defenders seen to know where the receivers are going. Not so with teh Pats or the Pack.
northern neighbor
December 2nd, 2011
2:32 pm
Read the ESPN interview with Aaron Rogers and you begin to understand how much room there is to grow as a quarterback, the attention to detail and hard work required. Plus, you need the physical skills. A lot of things have to work together to make great.
Plus, Rogers has 3-4 more years, including 3 years watching Favre, learning and practicing without the distraction of having to play in games.
ATLER (Ramblin Wreck)
December 2nd, 2011
2:32 pm
P B Orr what games are YOU watching? All the 7 and 8 yard passes that Matty throws are the reason he was nearly perfect. Come on dude get real. That’s what wrong with us Atlanta fans. We settle for whatever and look for a slightly above average QB to take us to the promise land. Coulda, shoulda, but we’re not 6-1. We are who we thought we were. Slightly above average.
jfreak13713
December 2nd, 2011
2:34 pm
Also, If you “Mularkey” throw the ball on 1st down you MUST be prepared to throw on 2nd and 3rd down as well in the event you don’t complete the first down pass! Drives me crazy when HE calls first down pass which is not completed then runs on second down and little or no yards. That creates 3rd and long which is never a good thing.
ATLER (Ramblin Wreck)
December 2nd, 2011
2:40 pm
@ P B Orr
What games are you watching my friend? Any QB in the NFL can throw short passes and allow their receiving corps to get yard s after catch, which is what Matty is good at. But let him try to throw deep and you can see what his weakness is. We even get to the red zone often, but end up kicking field goals. Elite QBs put 7 points on the board. Stop being a Matty homer, he’s been exposed.
Ben
December 2nd, 2011
2:41 pm
People don’t really appreciate what they have in Matt Ryan right now. He’s a game manager type QB, he doesn’t run a 4-wide, single back offense. He doesn’t throw the ball enough times per game to put up Brees or Rodgers like numbers. The Falcons run the ball about 55% of the time while the Packers/Saints/Patriots throw it about 60% of the time. That translates to about 10 attempts and 7 completions per game, and if you take a league average of about 7 or 8 yards per attempt that’s around 80 yards per game or 1000 yards per season difference. Comparing Ryan to Brees/Brady/Rodgers is not a very effective comparison. You’ll get a better understanding of Ryan’s true value by comparing him to a guy like Roethlisberger or Eli Manning, or even a pre-2007 Brady. Don’t forget, the Patriots haven’t won a Super Bowl since they went to this spread style offense, they won three SB’s as a pro set, run first team.
I’d like to see the Falcons offense get more aggressive and develop a killer instinct, but that’s a “playcalling” issue and not a “playbook” issue. The offensive coaches just need to get better at picking the right moments to step on the gas.
Paddy
December 2nd, 2011
2:42 pm
dean…..defense does not win championships. A great offense gets you the ring. That saying, so often repeated, that folks take it as gospel. It might have been true for Woody Hayes and Vince Lombardi, not that way anymore.
jfreak13713
December 2nd, 2011
2:44 pm
Mobility? That is really what you idiots think is Ryan issues? Really? Watch Tom Brady and you’ll think Ryan is Vick! Arm strenght? Joe Montanah was considered to have avg arm strenght as well and he did pretty good I think. Ryan is a really good QB and will at some point win a Super Bowl or at least play in one. Every team wants Rodgers or Brady but those just don’t come around too often. Show a little support guys this team is good enough to win and win now!
jfreak13713
December 2nd, 2011
2:48 pm
VICK OR RYAN?
Chris
December 2nd, 2011
2:48 pm
Aaron Rodgers was not even Aaron Rodgers until we beat him in the dome last year. He was not considered elite by far last year. He has gone on an amazing run since then, including the playoffs and super bowl. I’ll take Matt Ryan on my Falcons, he will be great also.
Cutty
December 2nd, 2011
2:50 pm
he has a limited skill set. He can’t throw the deep ball at all. I don’t know what games some of you ryan lovers are looking at. He has questionable decision making as well. Why give away all those draft picks for Julio Jones when Matty Ice can’t even get him the ball deep. He in average quarterback nothing more nothing less.
jfreak13713
December 2nd, 2011
2:50 pm
Montanan sorry of the spelling error.
JSS
December 2nd, 2011
3:01 pm
See that is what I mean by a “sideways insults…” Just look at the bloggers who keep trying to inject Vick into this blog? Brady is slower afoot than Ryan but I’d prefer him in scramble scenario because he has eons more pocket presence and when he gets in the open field, even with that bum knee, he gets more yards before sliding…