The SEC West tiebreakers: Hold your breath and count to five
"If I'm the world's greatest coach, how come I keep losing to Leslie Miles?" (AP photo)
The most intriguing team in the land isn’t the one that won The Greatest Game Ever Played If You Don’t Care About Touchdowns. It’s the one that lost. As it stands, Alabama has a better chance of winning the national championship than it does the SEC crown, and wasn’t it only 2007 — help me on this, Georgia fans — when we were told a team that doesn’t win its conference doesn’t deserve to play for the BCS title?
That was the reason given then for elevating two-loss LSU, which had lost its final regular-season game at home, ahead of two-loss Georgia, which hadn’t lost since Oct. 6, in the final BCS poll. Never mind that the Bulldogs entered the final weekend ranked ahead of the Tigers. But the same thinking mightn’t apply if it comes to a choice between one-loss Alabama and one-loss Anybody Else. (Oklahoma, Oregon, Arkansas, even Clemson.)
Alabama, see, has the aura of a champion, if not necessarily the results. (It has Nick Saban, who somehow remained the world’s greatest coach after finishing fourth in a six-team division in 2010.) It was ranked No. 1 in preseason despite having lost four Round 1 NFL draftees plus its starting quarterback, and it fell only one spot in the BCS rankings after losing at home on a night when all Nick’s men couldn’t muster a TD.
The calls for an LSU-Alabama weren’t just immediate in the aftermath; they’d been raised even before the game began. (The thinking being that, since an SEC team is going to win the BCS anyway, why not make the title game at least interesting?) After prevailing in Tuscaloosa, LSU shouldn’t need to prove it can beat Bama twice to be national champ, but that could well be its assignment. Which would be grossly unfair, but when has big-time college football even been fair?
Even more confusing: LSU can lose to Arkansas in Baton Rouge on Nov. 25 and still represent the SEC West in the Georgia Dome. This is because of a complicated-but-sensible SEC tiebreaker. Were LSU to lose that game and finish in a three-way tie with the Tide and the Razorbacks, the Tigers would still get the West nod as long as they don’t fall more than five BCS spots behind Alabama. The SEC rule in question:
The tied team with the highest ranking in the Bowl Championship Series Standings following the last weekend of regular-season games shall be the divisional representative in the SEC championship game, unless the second of the tied teams is ranked within five-or-fewer places of the highest ranked tied team. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the SEC championship game.
You might recall that Texas beat Oklahoma in 2008 but couldn’t play for the Big 12 title and was omitted from the BCS title game because the Sooners finished first in the BCS rankings to the Longhorns’ third. That wasn’t right: When teams are tied, head-to-head should be the determinant. The five-or-fewer rule comes close to making that a reality. But there are loopholes within this loophole.
If Alabama is No. 1 in the Nov. 27 BCS standings to LSU’s No. 7, Alabama would represent the West, head-to-head be hanged. If Arkansas should beat LSU and nose ahead of the Tigers in the rankings, Alabama would likewise prevail. Because Arkansas would then be the second-place SEC team in the BCS standings, and Alabama beat the Hogs on Sept. 24.
Here we pause to consider Arkansas’ possible plight. Should they beat LSU, the Razorbacks could make the case that they’re playing the best football in the nation’s best league, but they’d surely be blocked from playing for the SEC title. And the team Arkansas just upset would not, provided LSU stays ahead of Arkansas in the BCS standings, which could well happen. (As we speak, the Tigers are No. 1 to the Hogs’ No. 6.)
Yeah, a nice eight-team playoff would come close to solving all this, but I’ve abandoned hope of that. But at least we in the Eastern time zone are facing a welcome bit of clarity, championship-wise. If Georgia beats Kentucky on Saturday, the Bulldogs will play for the conference title. If they lose to Kentucky, the Georgia athletic association will announce Sunday that it has dropped the sport.
By Mark Bradley
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351 comments Add your comment
Mountain DAWG
November 16th, 2011
10:19 am
I would love to see a UGA-LSU SECCG. No pressure for the DAWGS as they were written off long ago and will be effectively written off for that game, as well. I have no optimism about UGA’s chances- pretty sure they would lose to LSU; but wouldn’t it be neat if the top team from the dreaded, worthless, weak east division were to manhandle the west’s best team? What would all you “westerners” say about the eastern division if THAT happened? If BAMA backs its way in to the BCSCG without winning the conference, I want to see ESPN ’splain that to all the UGA fans for the 2007 shafting.
fbfan12
November 16th, 2011
10:21 am
Saban is 44-6 the past four seasons combined while playing in the best conference in the country…maybe that’s why he’s considered the best coach in the country.
fair and Balanced
November 16th, 2011
10:21 am
The BCS system is flawed and everybody knows it flawed but the stupid NCAA does nothing to try to correct the flaw! The NC in D1 Football is not about who is the best team – it’s about who has the best season. Someone above showed this clearly: GA wins out, beats LSU in the SEC C game but has 2 early losses and AL goes to the NC. That can’t be right. If GA wins out and beats LSU, who has been ranked as no. 1 for most of the season, then GA ought to be considered as the best team in the country and play for the NC. The BCS takes no consideration as to who beats who and when they do it. Its all about the record at the end of the season, as it was in 2007. GA could beat LSU at the end of the season, but because LSU has a better record are they to be considered better than GA who just beat them? Non-sense! And why would Bama all of a sudden jump over LSU AND GA in the polls when GA just beat LSU in the SECCG and LSU already did the same during the season? That is stupid too. If GA wins out and beats LSU as the no 1 team in the country, then GA should play for the NC! I don’t think that will happen, but it could and who is best in the SEC should NOT revert to Alabama who has already been beaten by LSU. The only solution is a playoff. A playoff settles everything. Right now though – let the SEC Champ play for the NC until the SEC Champ loses 2 in a row. The truth is, and everybody knows it, everybody is trying to catch up to the SEC. Until they do, the SEC Champ ought to play for the NC.
bill arp
November 16th, 2011
10:22 am
Ark beats LSU
USC beats Oregon
Cal beats Stanford
OK beats Ok State
Va Tech beats Clemson(ACC CG)
UGA beats Ala(SEC CG)
Then what happens? Laugh all you want, but this is possible, not very probable, but yes, possible.
Terry Shirey, Sr
November 16th, 2011
10:22 am
Two points: (1) There will never be a rule requiring conference title until Notre Dame joins a conference. Those who provide BCS money (television) will not allow nation’s number one television draw (much to my chagrin) to be eliminated and (2) There will never be playoff in the FBS division of the NCAA as long as it has 100+ members. There is a a better cnance with the lastest actions of OSU and PSU (very likely covering up transgressions), that bowls will be eliminated altogether once the collective college presidents grow a pair.
Its Just Horseplay
November 16th, 2011
10:23 am
Saban is a good coach, but if you can’t win your division, you can’t win an NC.
Its Just Horseplay
November 16th, 2011
10:25 am
Is his name really McQueary? Or are you just making that up?
daddo
November 16th, 2011
10:27 am
Reality leaves out one important fact: Saban has two huge rings on his hand, a ring that your coach will never win. And it is really quaint to see all u UGA fans thrilled with being the fifth best team in the conference this year. It IS an improvement, that’s for sure. And means u will keep that crack coaching staff in place for another three years or so.
Not sarcasm
November 16th, 2011
10:28 am
Watching power programs play meaningful do or die games in late Dec. would be horrible. No way ESPN would be able to hype the winner of say LSU/OU against Ore/ Bama winner. College football champions should be decided by three things, middle aged sportswriters, computers, and head coaches, period. We SHOULD NOT decide a champ on the field.
bama slamma
November 16th, 2011
10:30 am
I really do not see how you can compare UGA 2007 campaign to Alabama’s this year. That year, UGA lost to a mediocre South Carolina team and was destroyed by Tennessee. UGA did not enter into a tie for the SEC East crown. Instead, UGA finished second in the East. If Arkansas beats LSU, then a three-way tie exists, and it’s pretty difficult to decide wich team deserves to play UGA. Also, your digs at Saban are ridiculous. Yes, Alabama did finish 4th in the West last year but did manage to beat 3rd place Arkansas and finished ranked tenth in the country. Also the caption that Saban keeps losing to Les Miles is laughable because, two years ago, the same could be said for Miles. Both are great coaches and amazing recruiters. It will be interesting to see how all of this shapes up, especially if UGA somehow wins the SEC title. I imagine, in that scenario, that an SEC team will not be represented in the BCS Title Game.
Simple Jack
November 16th, 2011
10:32 am
Good article, Mark. Really liked the last bit about dropping the sport….LOL
Mountain DAWG
November 16th, 2011
10:33 am
UGA shouldn’t stand a prayer against LSU, but the game has to be played, anyway, so there is always a chance. Maybe LSU will pull some unexplained boneheaded things like UGA did vs. USC. As unlikely as it is, I would love to see the east beast beat the west beast in head-to-head. If UGA steals one away from LSU, what are you koolade-drinking westerners going to say about the worthless, weak, deplorable east division then, huh? UGA has absolutely NOTHING to lose in that game; they can play their game relaxed with the notion that they were not given much of a chance to be there in the first place and have no hope of a NC game. LSU will have plenty of pressure as they have EVERYTHING to lose.
If BAMA backs its way into the BCSCG without winning the SEC, I want to see ESPN explain to all the DAWGS why it didn’t work that way in 2007.
Cobb Dawg
November 16th, 2011
10:36 am
Thanks for bringing this up, Mark, and for comparing it to the 2007 UGA decision. Hipocrisy seems to be okay when it gives the powers that be the opportunity to engage in a little hero worship with its favorite coach.
DawgFan
November 16th, 2011
10:37 am
Mountain DAWG – Why shouldn’t UGA stand a chance against LSU? The Bayou Bengals have already proved that they cannot find the endzone against a top flight defense, which UGA has, and the Dawgs have possibly the best QB in the conference. I’d love to see them play.
perk
November 16th, 2011
10:38 am
Billy: sorry – had to work for a while! You are dead on – if a conference does not have a championship – no chance to play for crystal trophy. would also love to see Les Miles quote on the conf championship if anyone finds int
Cobb Dawg
November 16th, 2011
10:41 am
And just to show what a great memory I have, does anyone remember when Notre Dame was catapulted five spots (from #7 to #2) in the final regular season poll of 1980 so they could play #1 UGA in the NC Sugar Bowl game? When it comes to perceived football “power” programs, I’m not sure the system is any better run today than it was back then.
bama slamma
November 16th, 2011
10:44 am
Also, much of the logic, or lack of logic, on this thread of comments fails to point out that in 2007, LSU was a two-loss BCS Champion, and in 2008, Florida was a one-loss BCS Champion. LSU lost to Kentucky and Arkansas, while Florida lost at home to Ole Miss. Alabama lost to the top-ranked team in the country in overtime at home. I’m not screaming re-match, but dismissing Alabama over that loss is pretty ignorant. Bama is deserving of number three ranking right now, just as LSU would be if the roles were reversed. Also, Stanford and Boise just pointed out that those teams aren’t worth their rankings at this moment. If Oregon loses to USC, then the Ducks shot at another BCS title game is pretty much over. There is a pretty great deal of college football left to play, and the last few weeks should be pretty damn interesting.
Junior
November 16th, 2011
10:46 am
Fire Bill Curry
aol.com
November 16th, 2011
10:50 am
Since bam a cheats by giving their players suits and cutting players by putting them on medical redshirt, they must have a plan to cheat if they are tied for first. Will they be buying suits for all the voters or will they be telling the voters they can not vote for medical reasons.We will see if this is part of the process.
home&home
November 16th, 2011
10:54 am
I’m a UGA fan but I’m just about sick of the 2007 comparison. The argument wasn’t that UGA didn’t win the league. You have to take it further. It was that UGA didn’t win the leage and another 2 loss team, LSU, DID win. In 2007, one BCS championship team was clear–Ohio State. Then there were a bunch of 2-loss teams to choose from to play them. LSU won the west with two losses and won the SECCG. UGA, with two losses, didn’t get to play in the game.
The choice was clear and the comparison really doesn’t make sense.
This year, despite not winning the SECCG, Alabama may very well be the #2 team. Do I think they should play in the game? Not if another one loss team wins their league. But that’s not how the rules work.
aw
November 16th, 2011
10:56 am
Funny wrote “Let’s have an 8 game playoff and be done with it”.
Spoken from one who never attends games and most likely did not attend the University they root for.
You gotta love the Cap n T-Shirt Crowd!!!!!!!!!!!!! they have all the answers
Gary
November 16th, 2011
10:58 am
After our 2 loss start, I am not going to cry if the Dawgs win the SEC championship and don’t get to play for the NC. All they had to do was win the first 2 games and there would have been no question. That didnt happen. I’m looking forward to whatever Sugar Bowl matchup we will have. Go Dawgs.
GulfShoresDawg
November 16th, 2011
11:05 am
Dawgs need to just take care of bizness and we will be where we need to be….Love my DAWGS!
Gbal
November 16th, 2011
11:06 am
Good piece Mark —
8 team playoff is the answer. Some samy it would downplay the regular season… i call BS.
We are having all of this hype about who gets in the SECC game and the what ifs on the BCS game….
Think of all the hype that would be going on right now determining who the 8 playoff teams would be.
SEC would have 3 teams in the top 8 BCS wise with UGA on the outside with a chance to get in the top 8…..Or by getting in via winning their SECC game…
Arguments would abound regarding the SEC having such representation – 3-4 in the field.
Arguments regarding BCS standings or winning your confrence… what should get you in the 8???
AND THEN AFTER ALL THIS SETTLED>>>>>>>>> GUESS WHAT>>>>
We would get to watch the games!!!
aw
November 16th, 2011
11:06 am
Mountain Dawg wrote “I want espn to explain to all Dawgs why it didn’t work that way in 2007″.
Espn “Because you lost to South Carolina(16-14) and Tennessee (By 3 TD’s actually 4 if not for a late TD on UGA part) Alabama lost to LSU in OT by 3 points after missing 3 field goals in Regulation. As much as Georgia rationalize 2007, IT IS NOT THE SAME!”
kurt
November 16th, 2011
11:10 am
mark, I believe you failed to mention that already twice in the short BCS history, there has been two years in which a team played in the BCS Chanmpionship when they did not win their own conference. In 2001 and 2001 it happened, both with Big-12 teams. in 2001, Nebraska was in the BCS game even though Colorado was the Big 12 champion. And in 2003, Kansas State was conference champ while Oklahoma went onto the BCS game. Now with regards to 2011, if Okla State loses, and if you actually take away your bias again Bama, you should acknowledge that LSU and Bama are in fact the two best football teams in the country.
82Dawg
November 16th, 2011
11:10 am
Enter your comments here
82Dawg
November 16th, 2011
11:11 am
@aw…let me guess you are a Bama fan?
aprilglaspie
November 16th, 2011
11:13 am
sansho, you assume the west winner would beat UGA. That is a seriously dumb assumption.
GTBob
November 16th, 2011
11:15 am
I am hoping Arkansas beats LSU and UGA beats whoever goes to the SEC championship. I am also hoping for an Oklahoma win over Oklahoma St. The more chaos the better.
PMC
November 16th, 2011
11:17 am
The BCS is designed to pit polled #1 vs #2 while mantaining a crooked, corrupt bowl system and keep all the real money in the hands of the large schools. It’s still never been better to be a small school like Boise or TCU, but a playoff system would put at risk payouts to the big conferences every year, that’s what it’s really about.
It’s not going to change because college presidents and bowl presidents are corrupt, just like the rest of the politicians in this country.
red hill
November 16th, 2011
11:18 am
De facto rule was put in place in ‘07. Big time double standard if ‘Tide gets into B(ig) C(roc) S game. Big time BS.
PMC
November 16th, 2011
11:20 am
The next person that utters the phrase “student athlete” in the media while being employed by an institution that offers athletic scholarships should get a pie in the face.
If you have an athletic scholarship, you are paid to play a sport, not get an education. You are in college because you are a marketing employee of the institution. Getting an education is an ancillary benefit, period.
The phrase “student athlete” should be amended to “athletic student” or they should be fined every time they freaking utter it.
True Dawg Fan
November 16th, 2011
11:23 am
bama slamma
November 16th, 2011
10:44 am
Also, much of the logic, or lack of logic, on this thread of comments fails to point out that in 2007, LSU was a two-loss BCS Champion, and in 2008, Florida was a one-loss BCS Champion. LSU lost to Kentucky and Arkansas, while Florida lost at home to Ole Miss. Alabama lost to the top-ranked team in the country in overtime at home. I’m not screaming re-match, but dismissing Alabama over that loss is pretty ignorant. Bama is deserving of number three ranking right now, just as LSU would be if the roles were reversed. Also, Stanford and Boise just pointed out that those teams aren’t worth their rankings at this moment. If Oregon loses to USC, then the Ducks shot at another BCS title game is pretty much over. There is a pretty great deal of college football left to play, and the last few weeks should be pretty damn interesting.
If they used it against UGA it should most def be used against Bama. No SECCG appearance no NC appearance period. If it does happen it will be the end of the BCS.
True Dawg Fan
November 16th, 2011
11:26 am
aw
November 16th, 2011
11:06 am
Mountain Dawg wrote “I want espn to explain to all Dawgs why it didn’t work that way in 2007″.
Espn “Because you lost to South Carolina(16-14) and Tennessee (By 3 TD’s actually 4 if not for a late TD on UGA part) Alabama lost to LSU in OT by 3 points after missing 3 field goals in Regulation. As much as Georgia rationalize 2007, IT IS NOT THE SAME!”
its the exact same moron. Ur just rationalizing it for Bama.
It's A Sorry World
November 16th, 2011
11:38 am
The best argument for Bama is LSU hung on by the skin of their teeth the whole game and won on an OT field goal.
ARdawg
November 16th, 2011
11:39 am
Who cares?
Bremen Dawg
November 16th, 2011
11:40 am
This is going to be a mess if LSU wins, what if UGA wins out and beats LSU then what? Would a two lose conference champions get the nod over some one lose teams?
Bremen Dawg
November 16th, 2011
11:41 am
Meant LSU loses
UGASlobberknocker
November 16th, 2011
11:45 am
Since I believe an undefeated LSU team ranked #1 could lose to UGA and still be ranked in the top 2, My perfect scenario is this..UGA beats LSU and wins the SEC, goes to the Sugar Bowl where we will hopefully play anybody but Houston (not afraid of them, just dont want another loser opponent like Hawaii). Then LSU could still play and win the BCS championship, thus keeping the SEC streak alive.
Im good with that scenario.
UGASlobberknocker
November 16th, 2011
11:47 am
Unfortunately, UGA blew their chance at the natl championship in the USC game. That one loss is keeping them out of the championship discussion..so thats why Im ok with LSU playing for the title despite not being the conf champion
jc
November 16th, 2011
12:00 pm
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!
Gordon
November 16th, 2011
12:06 pm
UGA had 2 losses in 2007, in addition to not being the SEC East champion. There is no way they deserved to go in 2007. LSU had 2 losses, but were SEC champions. This year Alabama only has one loss.
RedandBlackDawg
November 16th, 2011
12:07 pm
This is a case in the making for BCS haters if the pieces fall into place. Let’s complicate it even further and say the DAWGS win. Now that is a predicament that only us UGA fans want. I would sure like to see it happen though. Of course this would mean the NC ended at five for the SEC, so no one wants that scenario unless you are a DAWG fan. As I am one, I want UGA to win more than I want the SEC to necessarily be the king of the hill once again.
GO DAWGS and GATA
Alphare
November 16th, 2011
12:10 pm
About 07 dawg not going while BAMA going this year. Man, some of you really have dumb arguments.
1. BAMA going is based on a 1-game loss this year while UGA lost 2 games in 07. If BAMA lose 2 games, they should not go and have no chance anyway.
2. BAMA’s 1-loss is a heartbreaking loss to LSU with 4 missed goals. That’s why they are ranked so high because of the 4 missed goals. If BAMA is a lopsided loss to LSU, do you believe BAMA is ranked as high as it is?
3. UGA was not that impressive in 07 as LSU/BAMA this year. LSU/BAMA are the best teams and others are behind by a mile this year. UGA was a good team at the end of 07, but few bought it was one of the top 2 teams, with the exception of a portion of UGA fans.
I don’t mind LSU/BAMA going at it again in the NC. Basketball/Baseball and Pro-Football all the times. Falcons beat Green Bay in the regular season, but lost to them in the play-off.
WDE
November 16th, 2011
12:12 pm
Hey I would just like to remind the crowd that UGA so far this year has beaten UT,Auburn and the gators…man I never get tried of saying that !!!!!
Alphare
November 16th, 2011
12:21 pm
Mountain Dawg,
“If BAMA backs its way into the BCSCG without winning the SEC, I want to see ESPN explain to all the DAWGS why it didn’t work that way in 2007.”
You don’t need ESPN to explain to all the DAWGS. Even a big portion of the dawg fans can do it.
1. That’s because you had 2 losses in 07 while BAMA has only 1 loss. Can BAMA go if they have 2 losses? No.
2. LSU had 2 losses but went to NC, well they won SEC Champ that year, while your dawg did not win SEC in 07.
What else cannot you understand. Even a dumb guy can help explain to you since your IQ is obviously very high.
GTBob
November 16th, 2011
12:21 pm
Then LSU could still play and win the BCS championship, thus keeping the SEC streak alive.
After the Oklahoma debacle and the fallout that followed it, this is very unlikely to ever happen. If UGA wins the SEC championship then the SEC is not going to have a team in the title game.
DawgFan
November 16th, 2011
12:34 pm
Alphare – We understand the issue of UGA not winning the conference in 2007, but the point MountainDAWG and other are making is that we UGA fans were told by a certain major sports-news outlet that the reason UGA was denied chance at the BCS Title was because they did not win the conference. Regardless of record, it seems like it is suddenly okay this year for a non-conference winning team to play for the BCS Title, when in 2007 it was decided that a team must win their conference to play for the BCS title.
Football Fan 14
November 16th, 2011
12:40 pm
What if Arkansas beats LSU, LSU still gets SEC championship invite. Georgia beats LSU in championship game and gets sugar bowl invite. If Ark or Ala does not play for national title ( just say Oklahoma St and Oregon) That means with the SEC only allowed 2 BCS invites 2 out of those 3 ( Ala, Ark and LSU) would not play in a BCS bowl?