The SEC West tiebreakers: Hold your breath and count to five
"If I'm the world's greatest coach, how come I keep losing to Leslie Miles?" (AP photo)
The most intriguing team in the land isn’t the one that won The Greatest Game Ever Played If You Don’t Care About Touchdowns. It’s the one that lost. As it stands, Alabama has a better chance of winning the national championship than it does the SEC crown, and wasn’t it only 2007 — help me on this, Georgia fans — when we were told a team that doesn’t win its conference doesn’t deserve to play for the BCS title?
That was the reason given then for elevating two-loss LSU, which had lost its final regular-season game at home, ahead of two-loss Georgia, which hadn’t lost since Oct. 6, in the final BCS poll. Never mind that the Bulldogs entered the final weekend ranked ahead of the Tigers. But the same thinking mightn’t apply if it comes to a choice between one-loss Alabama and one-loss Anybody Else. (Oklahoma, Oregon, Arkansas, even Clemson.)
Alabama, see, has the aura of a champion, if not necessarily the results. (It has Nick Saban, who somehow remained the world’s greatest coach after finishing fourth in a six-team division in 2010.) It was ranked No. 1 in preseason despite having lost four Round 1 NFL draftees plus its starting quarterback, and it fell only one spot in the BCS rankings after losing at home on a night when all Nick’s men couldn’t muster a TD.
The calls for an LSU-Alabama weren’t just immediate in the aftermath; they’d been raised even before the game began. (The thinking being that, since an SEC team is going to win the BCS anyway, why not make the title game at least interesting?) After prevailing in Tuscaloosa, LSU shouldn’t need to prove it can beat Bama twice to be national champ, but that could well be its assignment. Which would be grossly unfair, but when has big-time college football even been fair?
Even more confusing: LSU can lose to Arkansas in Baton Rouge on Nov. 25 and still represent the SEC West in the Georgia Dome. This is because of a complicated-but-sensible SEC tiebreaker. Were LSU to lose that game and finish in a three-way tie with the Tide and the Razorbacks, the Tigers would still get the West nod as long as they don’t fall more than five BCS spots behind Alabama. The SEC rule in question:
The tied team with the highest ranking in the Bowl Championship Series Standings following the last weekend of regular-season games shall be the divisional representative in the SEC championship game, unless the second of the tied teams is ranked within five-or-fewer places of the highest ranked tied team. In this case, the head-to-head results of the top two ranked tied teams shall determine the representative in the SEC championship game.
You might recall that Texas beat Oklahoma in 2008 but couldn’t play for the Big 12 title and was omitted from the BCS title game because the Sooners finished first in the BCS rankings to the Longhorns’ third. That wasn’t right: When teams are tied, head-to-head should be the determinant. The five-or-fewer rule comes close to making that a reality. But there are loopholes within this loophole.
If Alabama is No. 1 in the Nov. 27 BCS standings to LSU’s No. 7, Alabama would represent the West, head-to-head be hanged. If Arkansas should beat LSU and nose ahead of the Tigers in the rankings, Alabama would likewise prevail. Because Arkansas would then be the second-place SEC team in the BCS standings, and Alabama beat the Hogs on Sept. 24.
Here we pause to consider Arkansas’ possible plight. Should they beat LSU, the Razorbacks could make the case that they’re playing the best football in the nation’s best league, but they’d surely be blocked from playing for the SEC title. And the team Arkansas just upset would not, provided LSU stays ahead of Arkansas in the BCS standings, which could well happen. (As we speak, the Tigers are No. 1 to the Hogs’ No. 6.)
Yeah, a nice eight-team playoff would come close to solving all this, but I’ve abandoned hope of that. But at least we in the Eastern time zone are facing a welcome bit of clarity, championship-wise. If Georgia beats Kentucky on Saturday, the Bulldogs will play for the conference title. If they lose to Kentucky, the Georgia athletic association will announce Sunday that it has dropped the sport.
By Mark Bradley
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351 comments Add your comment
Billy
November 16th, 2011
9:28 am
perk why is that when many teams don’t play in a conference champiuonship and they are eligible. Then teams that play in conferences without conference championships should be ineligible to play in the national championship game
Mike
November 16th, 2011
9:29 am
Speaking of ESPN, if I remember right, it was Mark May and ESPN leading the charge for voting down UGA in 2007. Now all we hear about is Mark May trumpeting Alabama while Lou Holtz is trumpeting an Oregon/LSU rematch. Rece Davies graduated from Bama so you know what he’s going to say. The rest of the columnists are falling right in line.
Dont leave out SI.com either. They are shoveling the same nonsense with Staples and Mandel.
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November 16th, 2011
9:30 am
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JB
November 16th, 2011
9:30 am
I’ll say this about Saban and Bama. Good coach. Good Team……but………….did not play in the SCCCG last year…….doubt they will this year……….and with 12-13 starters gone off this team and a very average QB at the helm, doubt they will next year……….So for north of 15 million dollars, all that
bloating about how great Saban is, they sure are sitting at home a lot in early December, just say’n.
Jim Ponzi
November 16th, 2011
9:30 am
The BCS is a Ponzi scheme…..
JB
November 16th, 2011
9:31 am
s/b SECCG
DawgFan
November 16th, 2011
9:31 am
Exactly, Mark, and that’s what ticks off Georgia fans, because that’s the reason we were told UGA couldn’t paly for the national title in ‘07. In the last week of that season Mizzou and WVU were #1 and #2, then they both lost. Ohio State, at #3, jumped into #1, but Georgia, sitting at #4, was told that, because they didn’t win the SEC Title game (or play in it, even though they were ranked higher than both participants) had to drop to #5. Victims of an unwritten rule that is only sparingly applied, just look at the Big XII. Ou got to play for the National Title after losing the conference by 28 points to Kansas State.
Festus
November 16th, 2011
9:31 am
Lastus fer now….
Billy
November 16th, 2011
9:32 am
Mark there may not have been an official rule in 2007 however, that was discussed and it did stringly impact what happened to uga. I worry that the rest of the country is getting sick of the sec dominating and will find a way to discriminate against a non conference champion even if it is top ranked in the bcs
Mike
November 16th, 2011
9:33 am
Exactly Mark. It was an “unwritten” rule in 2007 that was made up by ESPN and the voters. They made it up as an excuse to keep UGA out of the NC game. Nebraska in 2001 and OU in 2003 both did indeed play for the title without a conference championship. Gee, what do Bama, OU, and Nebraska have in common…Oh yeah! They are “power programs”. haha
The precedent has been set either way.
JB
November 16th, 2011
9:34 am
in 2007, UGA and So Cal should of played for the title……………But, Dawgs were told they didn’t even win their conference…………….Watch the difference this year.
JDawg1785
November 16th, 2011
9:35 am
Your first paragraph said it all, Mark. I think Bama is a good team, but if they can’t win their own division, they should have no shot at the national title. We Dawg fans heard nothing but that from ESPN back in 2007, but for some reason they are all excited about a potential rematch of the No-TD Bowl. Confusing stuff…
Billy
November 16th, 2011
9:35 am
Mike you are right, but for the good of the sec and the future I hope that does not happen again. We need to reverse the precedent. It could bit us again down the road
Mike
November 16th, 2011
9:35 am
@ Billy – dont worry. Mark May, ESPN, and SI.com have all conveniently forgotten that unwritten rule. They are all trumpeting Bama as hard as possible.
Nick
November 16th, 2011
9:36 am
The whole thing stinks and makes me want to throw up.
daddo
November 16th, 2011
9:39 am
Hmmmm….let’s talk about Saban. National championship in 2009. Set the conference record for wins in a three year period (35), and when Alabama wins out this year that will be 48 wins in four years, 12 wins a year. While u r just Georgia, always have been and always will be, just Georgia.
JB
November 16th, 2011
9:40 am
Who’s dropped off the radar any farther than Florida? Muschamp has no one returning to make that pro offense any better…or we would of seen them…. You know, things like a QB,FB,RB,TE,WR’s…etc….
He will recruit, but starting 12 freshman on offense won’t get you far…..How much time will the “foamers at the mouth” give Will. Reading the message boards, his time is already up. They are in trouble and don’t know it yet. Fire Muschamp in the middle of year 3 and start over again?????????
- Greater Baton Rouge News
November 16th, 2011
9:41 am
[...] Continue Reading: The SEC West tiebreakers: Hold your breath and count to five – Atlanta Journal Constitution (b… [...]
DePort
November 16th, 2011
9:41 am
JackDennis
Show me those stats … If you are going to open your mouth … back it up … Cause I can think of a team way down in the bottom of Florida (Miami) that “squanders” just as much talent…. I cant stand when people open their mouth about stuff they have no backing on…
JB
November 16th, 2011
9:42 am
daddo…………………and what shall we label Bama between Stallings and Saban? dodo?
Rick Moranis
November 16th, 2011
9:43 am
Mr. Bradley has no idea what he’s talking about. He doesn’t even know how the three way tie-breaker works and he’s trying to convince people that he’s the expert.
If Arkansas beats LSU, Alabama is more likely to win the SEC West. It doesn’t matter if LSU is within five spots in the rankings if they finish behind Alabama and Arkansas in the BCS rankings. The top two teams in the rankings that are part of the three way tie have to be within 5 spots of one another! Arkansas will be ranked ahead of LSU if they pull off the victory in Baton Rouge, but likely behind Bama. Therefore, the top two teams out of the three way tie will be Bama and Arkansas, and Bama will win the SEC West because of their head-to-head victory against Arkansas.
LSU is out of the SEC West equation if they finish the regular season trailing Bama and Arkansas in the BCS standings.
Get it together, man.
Dirty Dawg
November 16th, 2011
9:44 am
Somebody mentioned that the NCAA was actually considering the four-team/one-plus National Championship ‘playoff’. Well, why not now? I mean who says that the system couldn’t be re-rigged, so to speak, to send the top four BCS-ranked teams to two selected bowls – say the Sugar and the Rose, or something – with those teams ’seeded’ 1 vs 4, 2 vs 3, and winners then playing in a NC game the week prior to the Super Bowl – surely there’s a venue available, or that would be willing to cancel a concert or a tractor-pull, that could handle it on short notice.
UGA Insider
November 16th, 2011
9:45 am
Mark, where can you find the exact quote from Les Miles that stated you should not play for the NC if you don’t win you conference?
Joey
November 16th, 2011
9:45 am
Hasn’t Muschamp got a 5-year contract, JB?
That would be a hellova buyout . . .
Billy
November 16th, 2011
9:46 am
Hey Rick, When are you coming out with a new movie? I watched Gost Busters over the weekend and you were great!
SEC Commissioner
November 16th, 2011
9:46 am
Jeff in G-ville
LOL! Dreaming.
JB
November 16th, 2011
9:47 am
Insider, he ( Les) was all over the place with that in 07 as he was campaigning to get LSU in the NC game over Georgia.
Reality Man
November 16th, 2011
9:48 am
Mr. Bradley-
Mark Richt vs Nick Saban = 3 wins 3 losses
Nick Saban vs Mark Richt = 3 wins, 3 losses
Nick Saban: 2 SEC championships
Mark Richt: 2 SEC championships
and there are actually some people who think that one of these men is the greatest of all time, and the other is a bad coach now…
Except for the fact that the computers decided that sabans SEC champ teams would get to play for the mythical NC, what is the real difference in success??
The answer is nothing. Except that Richt has stayed in one job long enough to experience the inevitable hard times. And now seems to be bouncing back. A feat that I think will ultimately be the most impressive aspect of his legendary career.
I wonder if you agree Mark B?
Red Stick
November 16th, 2011
9:50 am
I would have to say LSU is the team that has the most pressure, along with Ok St, and can not afford to lose a game now.
If the Tigers lose to Ark or UGA, then their chances will be pretty much be gone as far as playing in the national title game. The Tigers have been number 1 for 8 straight weeks, the longest streak since Ohio St was number 1 for 15 weeks in 2006. Yet this will be the year that losing at the end of the season will kill their chance of playing on January 9.
LSU could well be 12-1 and watching Alabama and Oregon, 2 teams they beat, play in the national title game.
This is the system and unfortunately we have to live with it.
JB
November 16th, 2011
9:51 am
Joey, that contract don’t mean squat to Florida. They’ll lose 4 or 5 games next year and the wheels are going to come off down there. That 20 year run they had, and it was a good one, has made them think they ought to be in the Dome every year and in the hunt for it all. …and they call us delusional…..LOL
Rick Moranis
November 16th, 2011
9:51 am
Hey Rick, When are you coming out with a new movie? I watched Gost Busters over the weekend and you were great!
We’re trying to get Ghostbusters 3 going, but Bill Murray is being a sour old turd.
juice sourcer
November 16th, 2011
9:52 am
8 team playoff….4 games at the major bowls…then simi final…in two other bowls…then championship game…it’s such an easy solution….think about the interest in the first 6 games before the final. The way it is now is that those 6 games in bowls are just exibition games…meaningless.
UGA Insider
November 16th, 2011
9:52 am
JB,
If UF loses badly enough to FSU it may be over this year. Those fans are so spoiled and Muschamp was crazy to take that job. It’s a lose/lose situation following a legendary coach and he should have thought about that. I don’t see any improvement next season as well… I also heard that both freshman qb’s are thinking of transferring because they are not pro-style guys.
Clueless
November 16th, 2011
9:52 am
I think that if LSU is undefeated in the regular season, but loses in the SECCG, they should still earn a spot in the BCS National Championship Game vs either an undefeated Oklahoma State or a 1 loss conference champion. They should not be penalized for winning their division and playing for a conference chanpionship.
If Alabama were to sneak into the national championship game it shows that it would have actually benefited them to lose to LSU in the regular season, so they wouldn’t have to play in the SECCG against a top quality opponent.
If LSU finishes the regular season undefeated, the conference championship game should only be a reward, not an opportunity for punishment
JB
November 16th, 2011
9:53 am
Great post reality man
Joey
November 16th, 2011
9:53 am
I heard Les say it on ESPN during an interview about his upcoming SECCG in ‘07. I remember it because my blood pressure doubled when he said it.
Herbstreit and Co began quoting him, and agreeing with him.
Devildog
November 16th, 2011
9:54 am
All this talk . . .
Bama has to get by Georgia Southern first.
Bogey
November 16th, 2011
9:54 am
Mark, suppose the rematch becomes reality. How about the rule that a conference can only have 2 teams is a BCS bowl? What would the real Sugar Bowl get?
Billy
November 16th, 2011
9:55 am
I know that this will irritate some dawg fans, but I am one and I am hoping that CMR is over the hump in turning the program around and I am supportive and pulling for him. However I am not yet convenced. We don’t need to rush out and give him a fat contract extention until we see how we start next season. Keep in mind we have not yet beaten a good football team.
Dawg Gone...
November 16th, 2011
9:55 am
UGA has at least 2 more losses coming this year. Extend CMR’s contract, please.
Signed- Rest of SEC!
Red Stick
November 16th, 2011
9:55 am
Early line per Danny Sheridan for the SECCG:
ARK vs UGA/ Even
Bama vs UGA/ Bama by 8 or 9
LSU vs UGA/ LSU by 9 or 10
Geaux Tigers
Go SEC
Rick Moranis
November 16th, 2011
9:56 am
I heard Les say it on ESPN during an interview about his upcoming SECCG in ‘07. I remember it because my blood pressure doubled when he said it.
He also said he’d be honored to play Alabama in the BCS title game. The man clearly doesn’t think when he speaks.
True Dawg Fan
November 16th, 2011
9:58 am
Mike
November 16th, 2011
9:29 am
Speaking of ESPN, if I remember right, it was Mark May and ESPN leading the charge for voting down UGA in 2007. Now all we hear about is Mark May trumpeting Alabama while Lou Holtz is trumpeting an Oregon/LSU rematch. Rece Davies graduated from Bama so you know what he’s going to say. The rest of the columnists are falling right in line.
Dont leave out SI.com either. They are shoveling the same nonsense with Staples and Mandel.
Mark May is the biggest idiot on ESPN and most liekly in the history of ESPN. He was a sausage jockey for USC until the Bush Scandal now he has jumped sausages to Bama.
Holtz- Deaf, Dumb, and Retarded.
Why do you think they are always grouped together?
I for one have boycotted ESPN and only watch gameday to see if the Corso curse is on. Other than that ESPN is load of BS and not worth my time.
Red Stick
November 16th, 2011
10:01 am
Perhaps so Rick Moranis but his 72-17 record at LSU speaks for itself. He’s smart enough to hire solid assistant coaches which, along with talent, is why LSU is a power.
True Dawg Fan
November 16th, 2011
10:02 am
This will be the only scenario for UGA to jump up into NC talks:
USC over Oregon
LSU over Ark
OK State over OK
Auburn over Bama
Clemson VS VA Tech- one has to lose
UGA over LSU for SEC Title
That eliminates all 1 loss teams except Stanford and Boise, and Houston (Undefeated but come one no shot)
All of that could happen, but most likely wont. The Auburn game is most likely the biggest stretch, but I wont count out their hatred for Bama.
Top Row Dawg
November 16th, 2011
10:06 am
If LSU beats Arky to play Georgia in SECCG, Bama will be stuck at 11 wins without even a sub conference championship. If LSU wins, we easily have one side of the BCS game. If Georgia wins, LSU will have 12 wins but no conference championship.
If Okie State beats Okie, then the other half of the BCS game is simple. If Okie wins they are both eliminated because they will only have 11 wins. 12 win teams are rewarded for having to win the Conference championship game. Lots forget that no only did LSU leapfrog Georgia in 2007, but Virginia Tech did as well in the final BCS poll.
Thus Oregon will play Clemson or Virginia Tech for the BCS.
Hear me out. Oregon will have to win the Pac 12 championship, giving them 12 wins AND a conference championship. Clemson is about to pickup two big wins over South Carolina and Virginia Tech to get to 12 wins AND a conference championship. This could go vice versa for Virginia Tech. 12 wins beats the Big 12 schools and conference championship beats LSU.
Anyway, the point is 12 wins and a conference championship should objectively trump any 11 win non conference non subconference championship winner. Depending how far Penn State and Arkansas fall in the Polls, one could argue that Bama has played a weak schedule much as they do with Georgia right now.
The only good win would be over soon to be two loss Arkansas. Penn State will soon have 4 losses without Joe Pa and having to play on the road to Ohio State and Wisconsin.
LSU will probably win out, and Okie St. has the edge on playing them. If Oklhoma wins, there will be at least two teams more deserving of other spot in BCS than Alabama.
Bruce
November 16th, 2011
10:07 am
math: LSU won 1 more game than UGA did in 2007. That makes LSU’s record better.
Rick Moranis
November 16th, 2011
10:07 am
Red Stick, I’m not questioning Miles coaching ability. I think he’s one of the 3 best coaches in college football right now. There’s no need for you to get defensive and start riding his jock.
Captain Obvious
November 16th, 2011
10:09 am
“I don’t root for anybody, DC. I get paid not to root”
Then you are getting paid for a job that you do not do well.
N.GA.DAWG
November 16th, 2011
10:10 am
Even if we win out! The reason we will not be considered for the nc is because we lost at home to a not as good as everyone thought USC team. We actually dominated the game and lost because our offense gave up 3 tds and the fake punt run by a freaking lineman that went for a 70yd td. I have no problem with that either because we cut our own throat losing that game. And the same can be said about th 07 season because we lost at home dropping passes all day against, YES, usc! Get real folks and just be happy it’s not 2010 all over again! Great job coach’s and continue to improve!