Fire Fredi? No, but the Braves did some major mismanaging

Why did he pitch to All Star Hunter Pence in the 13th with .197 hitter Michael Martinez in the on deck circle? All the wrong moves the last month.

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The culture has to change around here… no more quotes like: oh well, they just outplayed us… or Ya have to hand it them – they’re a great team… or I am proud of what we accomplished… It’s time to say: THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE! We need emotion… we need more from Liberty Media… more for salary so we can afford a good solid bat in this line up.. no more reclamation prjects for guys who once were HR hitters and now are CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

WREN…. LIBERTY MEDIA…. YOU SU**!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Fire him. He’s so nonchalant its not even funny. He just irks me

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I think you are spot on with this Mark. I don’t think Freddi is to blame for this…more so, this is a one in a billion collapse that was alot of bad luck and overswinging braves hitters. Mark, do you think Bobby Cox would have managed this SAME situation different this past month? What do you think he would have done?

The biggest things that stand out is how horrible the hitting has been the past month. NO timely hits. Everyone is WAY too aggresive at the plate. Basically…the hitters psyched themself out. baseball is a painful, horrible mental game.

Did you noticed how diligent the phillies hitters are? They all work deep counts and get on base.

We need a new hitting coach, and healthy pitching in September..

but again…I dont know who really to blame here…I think more the players for overswinging and a one in a billion just bad luck situation….this last month, nothing really has gone right…

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No disrespect to the legend from Royston, but I’m pretty sure that the current version of Ty Cobb could be as good a hitting coach for our club as Larry was this year. Why were we so unsatisfied with TP in that role again?

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In Chipper’s best Gator voice, “We can take the Phillies in the playoffs”.

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Need new owners

New GM

New Manager……………..Clean house of all UNDERACHIEVING BOOBY COX DISCIPLES.

New 3rd Baseman

New SS

2 New Outfielders……………………………..JHEY will not be half as good as the SAY HEY KID…………….WILLE MAYS.

JWHAT is what his name needs to be……………………….Awkward swing. Aren’t left handed hitters suppose to have the most beautiful swings ? Not HEYWARD. Throws awkward and is not a good outfielder. Can not catch balls near the wall. What a mess.

What a mess this team is.

Release DLOWE, McOUT, KAWACRUMMY, and see if SLIPPER JONES WOULD ACCEPT A TRADE TOT THE AMERICAN LEAGUE AS A DH. Of course BRAVES would have to pay probably over half his salary, but so what……………………….He is not worth 14 MILLION.

i am fed up with this team ……………………………….THEY SUCK !!!!!!!!!

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Why lose with the back half of the bullpen? Why not get Beachy or Minor in there once it became an elimination situation? Gonzalez just went down his bullpen in order like it was an ordinary game in August. He saved both starters for a game that will never happen and lost with his 7th best reliever. He blew it.

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The pitching was good enough to win. But when you only score 0-1-2-3 runs per game it magnifies any pitching mistakes. The lack of hitting was this teams problem all year. I remember reading an article about Parrish before the season started and how he wanted the Braves to be more aggresive. Last year JeyHay was the talk of MLB because of his discipline at the plate and his ability to wait on a pitch that he could hit. The aggressive approach to hitting really set him back this year. The combination of Hayward all year, McCann and Prado the last 4-5 weeks and the lack of a lead off hitter before Bourn was just too much to overcome.

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I am a longtime suffering fan who can only offer my opinion and feelings as to how awful it is to support a team that continually underachieves, underperforms, and chokes year after year. Whatever good feelings surfaced after the 1995 World Series (which came after much heartbreak in prior World Series and playoff appearances) has long since been cancelled out by the following:

(1) collapse in 1996 World Series against Yankees.
(2) loss to inferior Marlins team in 1997
(3) loss to inferior Padres’ team in 1998
(4) World Series blowout against the Yankees in 1999
(5) blowout by Cardinals in 2000 divisional series
(6) domination by Diamondbacks in 2001 NLCS
(7) losses in three straight Game 5’s in 2002, 2003,and 2004 divisional series (all at home)
(8) losses in two divisional series in 2005 and 2010 which involved blowing leads late in many of the games
(9) one of the worst regular season collapses in 2011

I would rather be a fan of any other MLB team right now than the Braves. Yes, I would rather be a fan of the Red Sox in spite of their similar collapse. At least the Red Sox have two WS rings in the recent past and have the money to bounce back and shore up what went wrong.

The Braves MUST fire the manager and every coach right now. They need to trade Chipper or force him to retire. They need to dump Derek Lowe. In short, every coach, manager, or player (except for McCann and Hudson) that has a leadership role needs to go. It is the only way to reclaim a portion of the dwindling fan base. They have the talent to succeed now. The window may be a short one, and the current environment is terrible.

The great thing about sports is that there is no script. You are not supposed to know the ending. With the Braves, however, I have come to the point where I know the ending is always going to be bad. I had no hope going into the last week. I knew the Cardinals would overtake them. I should not feel this way about a sports team. I am so frustrated because I cannot enjoy a sport I used to love to watch.

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Heyward is a mess. He needs instruction. McCann would benefit from working with Eddie Perez in the off season. Prado needs some time on the beach and regain his strength. He didn’t forget how to play.

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Mark, I don’t want Linebrink pitching EVER, but yes, I feel much better with him taking his chances against Martinez than letting the best hitter left in the lineup beat them.

There was no good reason to pitch to Pence, and he was getting ahead in the count too actually last night, Linebrink just isn’t good enough to get guys like that out. I think Utley was 0-2 and he fouled off about 20 pitches.

No excuse pitching to Pence.

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I mentioned on a couple of other AJC blogs that you can change the cast of characters, change the coaches, and even change the manager himself, and nothing will change until the culture, attitude, and approach to playing the game changes. The Braves are too low-key, laid-back, undisciplined, and fundamentally unsound, and it has been an epidemic for years. When the pressure comes, they become tight and choke, because they have no experience in playing with a sense of urgency or grit.

Every postseason there is a goat, or a collection of them, and it all comes back to attitude, approach, accountability, and fundamentals, and I seriously believe that has to change first before you change anything else.

It is an organizational, system-wide problem. Guys make it to the big leagues and suddenly forget how to play the game when the pressure’s on, when they’ve achieved all season long otherwise. The Braves need to seriously reassess who they have in their organization, top-to-bottom. If there is not a more, fiery, disciplined attitude coming from each and every manager in their farm system, all the way up to Fredi Gonzalez, they need to be sent packing.

No more coddling. No more excuses. No more “carrying on tradition,” because that tradition is one of losing when it matters most, to put it bluntly. No more tipping of caps to the opponent. I’ve never seen Tony LaRussa tip his cap to anyone, or Lou Piniella, or Earl Weaver, or Kirk Gibson (who should be manager of the year) or any other disciplinarian manager.

Until the Braves change their approach, all throughout their system, you’ll keep getting disappointed every single year. Bank on it.

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Perhaps we don’t need to replace Parrish, but supplement his work with a mental hitting coach. It was clear througout the season, that most on the team lacked good approaches consistenly. It was amazing to watch Uggla become patient and all of a sudden become a tremenoudous hitter. I don’t doubt the love and desire the Braves have for the game, but it wasn’t visible the last 3 weeks. It was comical how many times the Braves would swing at balls and foul off good hittable pitches. It was evident we had no mental approach at the plate other than “see ball…swing”.

I fault our lack of hitting for wearing out our bullpen because if we had a consistent offense, we would have had more than 3 run leads in several more games and therefore O’flaherty, Venters, and Kimbrel would not have been needed and therefor fesh down the stretch. I don’t blame Fredi for overusing those guys because they were our horses and were dependable. The lack of offense eventually ruined a very promising season where a lit of positives took place.

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Someone please help teach Heyward how to play right field!!!! PLEASE!!! I am not sure if he forgot how to play out there, but my heart is in my throat everytime the ball is hit out there.

Mark, I understand that pitchers make adjustments and oftentimes stump rookies, but how is it that Heyward has become a liability in the field? What happened in your opinion??

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Yes, I would start Tehran before Lowe. Lowe is not even an AVERAGE pitcher right now and his record proves it. With Tehran, we would not have said 4 runs in 6 innings was good like with did with Lowe.

The hitting philosophy changed with our team this year. Last year, we were patient and very good. This year we were horrible. The hitting coach should be fired.

Being calm is not the only good quality that is needed in a manager.

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No reason to argue about the call at 3rd. You can’t make the first out of an inning at 3rd, with your 3,4,5 hitters coming up.

If anything, we should have squeezed Wilson in the 2nd to get the run in from 3rd. As it was, we didn’t score. Fredi has shown a lack of instinct in his managerial decisions. From the handling of the bullpen to the hiring of Larry Parrish, it’s been a disaster. Not having a consistent lineup. When players are hot, they’re benched for rest. Heyward put his two best swings of the year in NYC and then doesn’t play for a week. It makes no sense.

Parrish and Pendleton have ruined this team and young players. Pendleton and Parrish wanted our players to swing more and be aggressive. Heyward had incredible plate discipline when he came up and it has eroded at the coaching of Pendleton and Parrish. We don’t have productive outs, and we swing at poor pitches. No knowledge of the strike zone. But we can be aggressive. Please!!!!

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Rich, Garciaparra and Hershiser were winners in their playing days, and they could see as well as we could what happens when a “business-like” approach to the game decimates a team. No fire, no guts, no excitement. I think all of that left this organization somewhere around this time in 1996, when Mark Wohlers served up a fat slider to Jim Leyritz. They shipped one of their gutsiest players (David Justice) traded a future star away who would later help the White Sox win a championship (Jermaine Dye) and became an emotionless, even-keeled corporate machine rather than an exciting baseball team.

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Have to snicker at you brave fans. Six weeks ago, all the boards were full of how you guys would take on the Phillies and beat them in the playoffs. Maybe someday you will learn a lesson, the lesson of history. In 1964 the Cardinals came from no where to win the pennant and the World Series. This season the historic franchise that knows how to win, expects to win and settles for nothing less, made mid season moves that once again worked for the Cardinals. Maybe you brave fans and Chipper Jones need to keep your mouths shut. It is a 162 season and until you clinch you can always pull a Brave and collapse. All you guys with your inflated sense of man love for your beloved braves, will think twice the next time you make plans for the playoffs in August. Somehow it is fitting that it would be the Cardinals the National leagues most storied franchise that took you down. Well no surprise there, some fight and win, others makes excuses and quit.

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I think Fredi does deserve some of the blame for his management especially in the past week. I was at the game in Washington on Saturday afternoon. During Brandon Beachy’s rough inning (the only one he had that day, but the decisive one), I was amazed that not once did the pitching coach come out to talk to him (and come to think of it, I can’t even remember McCann going out for a little chat). But those are the kinds of things a manager can do.

With that sad, you can’t blame Fredi for veterans failing to bring in runs with runners in scoring position. The second half for our good friends Prado and McCann really brought us nothing.

I also appreciated Fredi’s willingness to make move. For example, I think Cox would have stuck with Kimbrel to lose the game in the 9th last night, but Fredi had the guts to make the bold moving of bringing in Medlen who had made one single appearance for the whole year. That gave the Braves 4 more innings to hit – something failed to do against the fine arms of the Lehigh Valley IronPigs.

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Constanza is a journeyman, okay, I’ll give you that.
But, you must concede that he stepped in
and gave the Braves a spark.
Not to mention, he and Bourne had become a signature,
of sorts, for our team. We had an identity. [speed kills]
Then he got buried ?
Injured ? Dawg-house ? What ?
Not even to pinch hit in front of Bourne last evening ?
*[nothing against Hinske]
Could Georgie have saved the season ?…yeah…resoundingly !
____________________________________________________

As for Lowe (game 161):
Yes, I would have started Teheran.
*[using "Johnny Wholestaff " in relief]
*with respects to -Ernie Johnson-

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The White Rat: “Have to snicker at you brave fans. Six weeks ago, all the boards were full of how you guys would take on the Phillies and beat them in the playoffs.”

You’re an as*! What would any fan base do when playing well? They’d say the same thing – that we like our chances.

Enough with the lame troll posts already. Get a life and celebrate with your philthy-delphia fat chicks and guidos! Yo.. Adrian!

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I’d rather see the Braves hot going into October than limping into the postseason.

Go home, rest, get healthy. Get motivated.

I, for one, am glad the lame horse got put down. What, getting swept in the first round is better than this?

The expanded playoffs continue to expand baseball’s unmatched cruelty. Still love my Braves.

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if we don’t homer we don’t score. after the uggla homerun last night every hitter seem to have the approach of hitting it out or bust. once it went extra innings it was obvious if we didn’t get a homerun we weren’t going to win this one. even jack wilson swung the bat so hard i could feel the breeze up here in chattanooga. i’ve noticed this flaw about the braves for a long time…and the fact that we let great pitches go and then swing at pitches way out of the strike zone. tough times in atlanta sports right now–come on falcons!!!!

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Sorry Pat McGroin, but live in Atlanta and truly enjoy what you are experiencing. Many of us “other” teams fans have to endure the grand way you Brave fans think baseball works. The collapse of the Braves were mirrored by the rise of the Cardinals. Why is that? Until you are smart enough to figure that out, then maybe there is hope for you and your fellow Braves. You can stick a fork in the Braves now, they will not be a factor in the race for next season or many years beyond. Your Cubs like mentality, and horrific play down the stretch will doom this team. The front office will overreach and destroy this club. Oh well, there is always the Cardinals.

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Good stuff as usual Mark.

A few thoughts: I still haven’t seen a definitive account of what the heck happened with Brian McCann. He has looked absolutely lost the last several weeks, and never more so than last night.

Suddenly, there are questions as to whether Prado is a viable major-league starter. He had a terrible year. He seems to inflict such punishment on his body, and he also seems to be a head case who gets down on himself a lot. In a good line-up, a No. 2 hitter cannot hit .260. If not Prado, who is going to hit in that spot next year?

I think they’ve got to bring in a starter-quality corner outfielder in case Prado or Heyward do not bounce back.

My guess is that Conrad and Hinske are gone. Time to rebuild the bench.

I also see the need for a veteran reliever with experience at the back end. And not some rehabilitation project like Sherrill or Linebrink. The scary thing to me is that going back to last season, Kimbrel has failed to convert arguably the three biggest save opportunities of his career (San Fran in playoffs, first St. Louis game, last night)

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Only a new owner…. (re above)

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Typical Braves team, they have no heart.

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Like I said, a weak hitting team that rode an overachieving rotation till it broke. There is not a single clutch hitter on the team, and if what I saw last night was a fired up team that was ready to play and win, then I would hate to see what a team that is emotionless, because I saw no fire in that team whatsoever. And Chipper, please hang it up. Although the entire team fell flat on its face, you were the most visible one, striking out and walking slowly back to the dugout with your head down. You had a chance to be a hero again, but you could not do it. You could not lead the team like you have done in past years. Your time has come and gone…. hang it up before your body hangs you up.

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TO The White Rat : Typical dweeb, nerd troll. Get a life.

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The Braves went 10 straight scoreless innings last night. They didn’t score after the third inning. We can talk about tired arms but end of the day this game and many many of the September games were strictly lack of offense and guys left on base. Unbelievable when you look at our lineup. We went through the heart of the order time after time last night and each time I figured we had to break through but alas nothing. And this against to many different phillies on the mound.

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Fredi will be looking for a huge raise after putting up with all the negative stuff this year and all the injuries.

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Yea if Wren don’t fire him…then he (Wren )needs his a@@ gone!

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If ever a team deserved to be out of the playoffs it’s the braves.Fred is a clone of Bobby Cox, which means he doesn’t know jack about manufacturing runs. Bunt the damn ball when you get a man on first and second with no outs. If Chipper was Ted Williams maybe you let him hit, but his OBP says bunt the ball. Stealing third with no outs and two men on is a terrible blunder, even thought he was obviously safe. That run, taken by a ridiculous call, would have won this game in regulation.

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Season was a failure pure and simple. This is not Fredi’s first big league coaching job. He failed with the Marlins. Wren didnt look for the best manager he looked for the cheapest manager. We have lost our dynamics and that is a reflection of upper management and coaching. McKwirk ( Spelling ) Wren and Fredi should all be replaced. 1 playoff win in past 6 years is a trend

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Like I said, a weak hitting team that became exposed by a faltering, overachieving rotation. The Braves need to make some major moves in the off season, like moving Prado to 3d base and trading for a good bat in LF and SS. They also need to send Heyward to winter ball to find out if this season was the real Jason Heyward or not.I laughed when I read that they had a good looking team. Big Whoop, Mark. Good looking on paper is one thing, but they are not real good looking with a bat. They need help at SS, 3d, LF(Move Prado to 3d), and middle relief. Also, you cannot survive with a .235 BA from your secondbaseman. I mean, this team swings for the fences, and if they connect, it is wonderful, but, if they do not connect…. then you have the 2011 Atlanta Braves.

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Rob in Fayetteville – Amen Brother!!

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The braves didn’t score after 3rd inning last night. That is ten scoreless innings against numerous Philly pitchers. This game as with most of september losses was on batters not tired braves pitching arms. We went through heart of lineup time after time with nothing. Nothing seemed as maddening this past month as men left on bases.. During the month we had situations with bases loaded no outs and still couldn’t get runs. With our lineup there is no excuse for the lack of offense.

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Amen, Sad Braves fan! Start right at the top!

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The Braves have been trying so hard to replace Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz that they forgot to get good position players that can make an impact quickly. Where are the Chipper and Andruw Jones’? Look at their minor leagues. It is geared toward pitching and it has caught up with them. Their farm teams can’t score any runs either.

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You’re starting to bother me to, White Rat. Spending time on a Phili sports blog is more productive and mature.

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Thanks Mark for clearly stating the reason why the hitting coach, Parrish, must be fired.
All of the hitters regressed this season, it’s so obvious.

It’s also obvious that Fredi needs to wake up, stop dreaming about his Harley rides and realize the things he could have done so much better in these key games down the stretch.

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If you think it’s bad in Atlanta today, you have to see it up here. Multiply the venom x10

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Fredi chose Larry Parrish and stuck with him thru the horrible September so Fredi is as much to blame.

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Bradley , would you manage if given a chance? We’ll get Fredi fired right away.

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I’ll go farther, Teheran is better than ANY Braves pitcher. Yes he’s better than Hudson,Jurrjens,Hanson,and Beachy. He should be the ace next year.

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Last night was on offense. After third it was ten scoreless innings. Went through heart of lineup time after time with nothing. People can talk about burned out arms but most of the September losses were lack of offense. The men left on base was maddening. Bases loaded no outs and we get nobody in last week. Cmon. Feel good about future with the young arms. What needs to be looked at is how so many hitters can be so cold game after game. Has to be hitting coach.

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Use to be a big fan of MB and his musings, but no anymore. FG has him drinking his “koolaid” along with him, and their brains are malfunctioning pieces of mush. “Losersville” not only has losing sports teams on a consistent basis, but also “loser-type” sportswriters, Respect and credibility can only be attained by being perceptive, and writing the cold hard truth as it actually exists. FG has been given a free pass, especially lately, even though he is totally inept as a baseball manager. The credibility meter now stands at zero for MB, about a 25 for JS, and maybe, maybe a 50 for DOB. CR usually straddles the fence, so can’t rate her right now. Besides she’s a lady, and I respect all females!!!

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If we could get everyone in GA to chip in a dollar we would have 10 million, and could cut ties with Lowe and maybe get us a bat. Heck, I’d chip in two.

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P.S. Winners don’t say they are proud of losing a 2 digit lead in 4.5 weeks.

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Something about that picture reminds me of Bobby Cox…

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You are wrong on this one Bradley. Linebrink should not have been part of this rotation,and yes, Delgado,Beachy, Minor, or Teheran would have been more effective. Why save Beachy? If you don’t win this game then a playoff game is irrelevant. What does one day of rest matter anyway in this situation? Delgado is the better pitcher. If I’m the manager and the game is on the line, guess what, I’m using my best pitcher. I think your praise of Wren is too much frankly. Who is ultimately responsible for Lowe,Linebrink,kawakami, Parrish, and Fredi?

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If I were Liberty Media, he’d be fired.

They’ll be trying to sell pretty soon. The value of the organization just took a big hit.

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Alright – I am the dumbest guy on this thread – but can someone explain to me the reason a team meeting is a bad idea. I only played high school football and baseball but prior to EVERY game we had a team meeting. Things discussed in the baseball team meeting were the opponents batters, pitcher, our pitcher ( a curve baller would maybe have more pitches pulled ) our signals from coaches, opponents weaknesses ( maybe a poor throwing catcher), ect. This meeting was a give and take between players and coaches and served to focus our team. It was never a call out and yell at session. Don’t pro players and coaches communicate? thanks for the help.

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Team meetings are necessary. It gets everyone on the same page and lets everyone speak their minds.

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I think I would have taken my chances last night and not pitch to Pence who has killed the braves and he is the best hitter on their team. I don’t understand why Charlie Manuel played the game like it was the 7th game of the world series. One would have thought he would played the regulars for 6-7 innings and then rested them but he didn’t. I think in the 13th inning (which I didn’t stay up for) he had at least 5 regulars in the game. In the 9th inning McCann, Heyward, and Wilson all struck out and I went to bed because I knew they were doomed. Charlie may regret his decision to play his best team the last 3 games when he didn’t need to because this means the phillies have to face the cardinals and they would have had a easier time with the braves than they will with the cardinals in my opinion. Why in the world did Diaz start in right field instead of Constanza? That baffled me too. Freddie just seemed to forget about Constanza in the past 2-3 weeks and I don’t know why. Does anyone know why? To me he was a sparkplug they needed.

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Mark : “He landed Michael Bourn in July and fleshed out his roster with Matt Diaz and Jack Wilson in August”.

Diaz & Wilson are pathetic.

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Payback for the way the organization treated Glenn Hubbard!

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Soon to be former Braves-Linebrink, Lowe (if we pay most of his salary to whomever will take him, Sherrill, kk and McLouth, Parrish should go and a new strength and conditioning coach….seems like too many were out of gas. No hitting coach could fix Heyward and Prado.

On the bubble-Jack Wilson, Conrad, Hinske (needs to drop 20).

New Braves-whomever they can sign for the BP so OVK can work about 10 games less next year. Moylan will be a big help there! Could use 1 more. Moylan can spell any of the 3 so it doesn’t always have to be Ovenbrill.

Starting Pitching-Hudson, Beachy, JJ and Hanson if they recover fully. Minor could make it but could be the bullpen guy to go with Moylan. Bring the best new guy up-Delgado or Teheran…if one of them falters then switch em. They look like they’re close to being ready.

Some of the coaching staff-prob Parrish and maybe McDowell will be gone so Fredi can say “we made some changes”.

Phillies keep getting older and one of their big guns is due for some time on the DL. I mean, isn’t it their turn to have Hamels, Olswalt, Holliday or Lee out for the season.

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So, how many seasons should we give Gonzalez in “on-the-job” training before we can expect some actual major league caliber managing?

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ha ha, the “Furcal effect”.

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they need to take a tip from “Major League” when Wesley Snipes character kept trying to yank everything out of the park and the coach told him that everytime he hit the ball in the air he owed him 20 push ups.

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I’ll never understand why Bourne wasn’t stealing second? Why have speed if you don’t utilize it?

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Yes, Fire Fredi.

Also, we need to consult with Dr. Kervorkian on our no-hustle, no-heart right fielder.

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Well, if my fiery comment ever gets out of moderation (whatever that is?) — I hope some folks get to read it. Lots of passion there. No curse words. I’ve frankly got better things to do. Later….

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If the Braves are still paying Bobby Cox as an active team consultant, what the heck kind of advice has he been giving them over the past month?

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Let’s call it what it is… a weak offensive team that was lucky to have such a solid bullpen. It is what it is.

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Mark,

As it is now approximately 1:15 PM already, why is it taking SO LONG today to fire Larry Parrish and Roger “Kids Don’t Belong at the [EXPLETIVE] Ballpark McDowell?

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Curious George – I’ll tell you what Bobby’s advice would be… Stay the course; rely on your veterans; don’t make any major changes; rely on statistics… stay the course – all is well.

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Any manager would have been at a disadvantage down two key starting pitchers, but that’s doesn’t mean Gonzalez isn’t flawed. He’s flawed in constructing lineups, handling the bullpen and in-game tactics. Mark, you’re offering another flaw here that isn’t as easily measured, but if true just adds to the condemnation. Had the Braves stayed perfectly healthy and won 100 games Gonzalez would have still been flawed. The result isn’t the point. It’s the process. 80 wins? 90 wins? 100 wins? When you have an obvious problem fix the problem before it does show up in the results. Too late.

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WHY are all you columnist so AFRAID to FLAT OUT SAY FIRE FREDI?????????????????

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When the umpire made the bad call on Bourn’s steal attempt at third, Fredi Gonzalez made a half-hearted effort at advising the ump about his poor eye sight. You can bet the ranch that Bobby Cox would have argued until he had set a new record for ejections. Fredi looked like a deer in the head lights in the dug out. There was never any of the encouraging comments from the dugout that you could hear from Bobby when a batter was at the plate. Plus, I agree with all of the comments about the poor situational hitting. I think there is a serious lack of leadership from the coaches.

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Mark,

I agree that BC would have kept players more loose than FG did but he would have lost that advantage by using his players loyalties in key situations. What amazes me and nobody seems to be talking about is lack of production from the pinch hitters in the past one month or so..

I think FG did a fine job. He did everything he could. Only thing he could have done differently is to may be try Ross at catcher and Hinske in the OF in place of McCann and Prado few times.

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If we keep Fredi as you say, Mark, what changes next season? Is there any less apathy from the bench, any less of a reason to think we won’t just choke again? We upgraded from Glaus to Freeman, Infante to Uggla, McClouth to Bourn, Kawakami to Beachy…and lost one more game than last season. He did less with much more. Maybe it isn’t justifiable to can him after one season, but when next year looks a lot like this one, folks will realize that Wren is just wasting years with this staff in place.

After watching his approach this month and seeing all the ways he failed to right the ship, Fredi Gonzales is the last person I trust to repair this team’s shattered psyche going into next season. The window of opportunity won’t be open forever, but unfortunately last night just signaled the beginning of what will be a long, miserable march to the inevitable.

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Atlanta’s left-wing, hypocritical media will not publicly call for the (much-deserved) firing of Fredi Gonzalez at this thime, no matter how incompetent he has proven himself, because he is the local, non-NBA face of “diversity” on the Atlanta sports coaching & management scene.

If his name were “Fredi Johnson” or “Fredi Turner” or “Fredi Cox” after last night’s 2011 death knell, AJC writers would be openly calling for his head like Braves season ticket holders (like me) are.

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Fredi Gonzalez has now made even Michael Vick look cerebral, hard-working, studious & intelligent by comparison.

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Fredi hired Parrish. He doesn’t have the skill to hire better or know better. He only got the marlins job bc he had been our 3b coach for four years, and they thought he would appeal to Miami. How wrong they were. Nice guy, but bad choice.

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How is this not Frank Wrens fault? This team needed an RBI at the trade deadline and what did Wren do? He got a guy that can get on base! Yes , it was a “good” trade , but its not what the team needed. Its like Dolly Parton getting a boob job! Clean house of everyone who has ties to the old briefcase braves of the 90s and early 2000 era!

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Wren is ultimately responsible. He’s made some good moves and poor ones. Bourne was good, Lowe, Proctor & Linebrink were poor. But, he hasn’t made these decisions in a vacumn. Ultimately, he should be evaluated on the bottom line, and that is, this should be a playoff caliber team. Fredi, Parish or whoever else you want to blame, are the decisions of the GM.

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“Jose Constanza would not have saved the season. (He’s a journeyman. Come on.) Starting Derek Lowe in Game No. 161 was a justifiable choice. (You’d start the rookie Julio Teheran instead? Come on.)”

I can understand not playing Constanza after he started slumping, although I am not convinced that he wouldn’t have broken out of his slump if he had continued to play. But there was no excuse for starting Lowe. Forget Teheran; they would have been better off starting a position player or doing the All Star game thing where every pitcher goes for one inning.

That said, the Braves’ offense is the main reason for the collapse, not the pitching. Even with Lowe sucking and even with Kimbrel and Venters tiring, it is damn near impossible to win games when you can’t exceed three runs scored in a game.

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Mark, I think you’re spot out with this one, and your standards for a manager are obviously lower than a crawdad’s belly. Playing Lowe (Experience is as overrated as a politician’s brain), sitting Constanza (speed never slumps, and the man knew how to get on), pitching to Pence, burning out the bullpen, and a thousand other moves the man got wrong in the last thirty days shows it’s time to buy Freddi a one way ticket to wherever. And I’ll say it again: I will never again pay to watch a Brave’s game as long as Freddi is the manager.

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Mark, you’ve got to be kidding. Come on.

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Schuerhotz YOU need to clean house. Wren is not a championship team building GM. Jack Wilson? that’s the best backup you can get. Fredi-cat is not a top tier Mgr. He blew out the bullpen, let Blowe pitch, when Teheran should have been pitching in Sept. Parrish, wow what a disaster. If you want to get the fans back, you have to clear out the chokers. These three are in over their heads. Everyone else can see that as plain as day.

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Well said, Mark. That is all.

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Fire the manager, yes sir take the easy way out! I don’t see how we finished in second place. Very overrated when we don’t have Jurrgens and Hansen pitching well.

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Not sure of my spelling but I never really came through in spelling class. They should have fired my spelling teacher.

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Bradley, way to support a failed group. do you paid by Fredi or the AJC? Why not fire Fredi? is this an appointment for life?
As far as starting Derek Lowe in Game No. 161 being a justifiable choice. (You’d start the rookie Julio Teheran instead? Come on. Would the results have been any worse? what about going with a 4 man rotation.
don’t worry, as long as Fredi stays in Atlanta, you will the opportunity to write many similar articles in the future starting next september.

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I’m an Atlanta native now living in the Boston area. I’m still a huge Braves fan and am therefore hurting a little (yet not surprised) today. After listening to commentary locally here in Boston, I find it strange that not once have I heard a mention of the Braves collapse. People here focus solely on their Sox and how to right the ship. However, most articles I read about the Bravos bring up the fact that the Braves aren’t the only team to falter dramatically in September.

I’m not saying such a self-centered style of reflection is the best option, but it makes me think that the Red Sox are going to get more done in the offseason than our Braves. There are no excuses here, just an understanding that something went wrong and it needs to be fixed. I’d like the brass on Hank Aaron Blvd to have the same opinion.

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Will Mark Richt be able to feel more comfortable in his own job security after Fredi Gonzalez has just publicly done such a worse job in contrast?

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If the entire 2011 Braves coaching staff is returning intact for 2012, does that mean they head have naked pictures of Frank Wren and Fredi Gonzalez in “compromising” positions?

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I wonder why we didn’t start Kris Medlen tuesday?A rebuilt arm would have been better than Lowe.Chipper and Lowe need to RETIRE.Give up that 29 million dollars that will hold us back next year.

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So Fredi plays the “hot” hand in Constanza bc Jay Hey is sucking it up, but Lowe is sucking it up just as bad and he doesn’t bother to play one of our talented rookies (Minor or Teheran)? How is this logical? I understand Fredi has his “own” way of doing things, and I can’t change that. But really, do it across the board if that’s the case. Be consistent. There is no way Lowe should’ve been out there based on Fredi’s managing of Heyward. I mean he stuck with Gonzalez’s poor bat all year because he “made up” for it on defense. Ok, whatever. He backed it up with a reason, albeit pretty illogical. But what was his reason for Lowe? It’s not like he was pitching poor but at least giving us good innings. He was out by the 4th or 5th innings pretty much every start. If you manage based on a “hot hand” or “cold hand” theory, be consistent with it. He continued to play Constanza after he stopped hitting for awhile, and eventually sat him. Lowe should’ve been sat his last start or two, at minimum. He clearly wasn’t getting it, and continued to hurt the team. I can’t remember his last halfway decent start. All those games Fredi mismanaged throughout the year came back to bite us. So sad.

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To be clear, Wren deserves blame for wasting money on Lowe and Kawakami, but if you look at every player on the roster and see how much they should have been expected to produce based on their track record, the Braves had more than enough talent to make it to the playoffs. They didn’t make it not because they didn’t have talent, but because they underachieved. That is not the GM’s fault.

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I was hoping Fredi would outdo Cox, and he did! Just not the way I hoped!

It’d be hard to be a manager – I will grant that. But you know what, I know what buttons to push on my kids and when to step in!

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Sunny, Will you come out of retirement and play 3rd if Stinky takes over as manager.Then again maybe HG should play third and you at shortshop.Just remember Henry don’t like hugging.

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both of bourn’s feet came off the bag, he overslid, watch the replay, watch Sportscenter, this is not up for debate…and guess what, she shouldn’t have been stealing anyway, there were no outs and he was already in scoring position.

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I don’t see any way in heck you can keep Frediot OR Parrish. Each were not only bad but ’should not be working in baseball’ bad. Fredi is totally unaware of situations and overwhelmed by the simplest of baseball strategy.

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Most fans of sports teams have unrealistic expectations. 89-73 is a fine record based on the talent. If anything, the Braves overachieved under Gonzalez. If two of the top 3 starters hadn’t been hurt, the Braves would be a playoff team and this silly blame game wouldn’t be happening.

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Jesus,

But it did happen, so here we are.

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Hey Mark, I know your hindsight is 20/20, but how good is your forward vision, 20/400?

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I wonder how many of the posters on here beotching about Gonzalez were bashing Cox last year?

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Oh yeah, does Heyward have his bat coated with something that repels baseballs? It was like watching a 5-year old at the plate last night.

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A more Big-Blue-Arrow view:

The more distance the Braves put between themselves and the 90’s, and we start to see that the success of the 90’s(and very early 2000’s) was a mere blip on the radar screen of the overall lack of success and direction of this franchise since 1966.

The management of this organization, whether it be a consortium under Bill Bartholomay, or later Ted Turner, or even Kasten, McGuirk/Shuerholtz/Liberty Media era, has been lacking in instituting a long-term plan of success that ensures performing at the highest levels of MLB.

I’m talking World Series here, fellas, not division championships, which, quite frankly in the modern, watered down, over-expansioned era of baseball really are cheap playprettys as compared to the big enchilada.

This organization’s failure to capture but one world series amidst all the division crowns (whoopee) to me is a clear indication of substandard performance in the following areas:

On-field management

Major league personnel management

Minor league personnel management

Budget and Financial management

While it is obvious that some of the correct decisions were actually made from time to time and panned out, more correctly it can be asserted that the overall decision-making process has been off the mark and flawed.

This is to say that Atlantan’s can definitively give the Braves organization as a whole a D+ grade at best.

Thus we arrive at the Great Give-away 2011!

It is apparent to me that Atlantans and the Atlanta media (beware of getting in bed with the enemy, DOB!) should demand change and seek change at the highest levels of this operation or continue to expect much of the same substandard effort of the last 45 years.

Wonder what kind of column Outlar, Bisher or Hyland would have written about these Braves?

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“Fire Fredi? No, but the Braves did some major mismanaging”

Hey Mark, how has the AJC managed the subscription rates lately?

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We had our triple A club out there for the most part for the extra innings and we STILL SWEPT YO’ BUTTS! HAHAHAHAHAAHAH….Phillies didn’t just sweep, but SWEPT THE BRAVES RIGHT ON OUTTA HERE!

Bye bye, Braves. You’re the new Cubs! ahahahah

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Well, i know i will be right back next season. Love my Atlanta teams, what else am i going to do? Root for any team that wins a championship? Thats not my style.

Im already looking forward to the off season moves Wren is gonna make.

Glanville on ESPN said that worse case, the Braves might have to move Lowe to the pen. I can accept that. With that pitching staff, they can afford to let JJ or Hansen go for a hitter.

Next they are going to have to find a LF with some pop though.

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Hey Jason Heyward’s Gynecologist… what is the diagnosis on Jason?

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No way to gauge it going in BUT the Braves DESPERATELY need a team leader that will do more than just talk. What was Longoria doing when the Rays needed clutch hitting in a desperate late inning situation. He hits a 3 run homer to draw them to within 1 run and then hits the walk off homer in extra innings to win the game. Chipper too often comes up short in key games (like every post season early exit since his Hall of Fame buddies left the team to him).

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I don’t know Mark. Hope you are right about keeping Fredi. He did have injuries to key players–but still the talent was there to finsh September without blowing the huge lead they had. He seems to be ’slow on the uptake’ to me. ………… maybe he was panicing along with his players and became dysfunctional too. That would help explain the collapse. But we need a guy in that job who doesn’t panic/choke when things look dire. My gut says he isn’t going to work out; but I hope I am wrong. Been wrong many times before.

I sure wish he’d learn how to chew out umpires. That bad call at third on Bourne —he should has raised H___.

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Chipper Interview in AJC: You’ve said you’re playing next year, this change anything?

“No. I’ve committed to playing next year. I won’t commit past that; let’s put it that way. I’m looking forward to it. As tough a pill as it is to swallow, for a lot of these young guys it’s a learning experience. We got our butts kicked for the last couple of weeks of the season and they’re going to learn a lot from it and be better ballplayers for it.”

Only the young players learn from this? What about Chipper? He truly is a slow learner because he has been on the Braves teams that have failed again and again to win the big games. Time for a change. If he comes back, let him play part-time and bat sixth. Don’t let this be his team anymore. Longoria stepped up last night. That’s what the star is supposed to do. Almost doesn’t cut it. We was always in favor of winning instead of losing.

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The Braves put on a pretty good show for 5 mths. I have been a fan since 66 and will remain so. My kids have flaws, but I don’t throw them under the bus when something goes wrong and I will not throw this team under the bus either. I, for one, had an enjoyable summer watching this Braves team and although the ending was painful, I’ll be back next year full of hope and expectation. Freddi gets a pass (first year and following a legend), Parrish……fired. The everyday line up is good enough. Middle relief is every teams weakness but could be a strength for the 2012 Braves. I hate to say it but Prado could be the odd man out as the Braves could use some power in the outfield. The bench is solid and with Medlen coming back the starting pitching should be better. The back end of the bullpen is as good as any in the league. I’m ready for spring training.

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Looks like the Dawg Trainer might have to change his job description to “The Braves Trainer”. Take a page from the Cardinals. To a man, their philosophy is: “Play a hard nine”. Chris Carpenter pitched a hard nine. Gave up two hits and a walk. No runs. He knew it was win or go home. Cards hitters got 3 runs before the first out was posted in the first inning. They played hard and played to win. Once the Braves’ youngsters learn to play a hard nine, they’ll be alright. Just ran out of gas this season.

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Mark, you have written a nice article and I respect your opinion; however, I disagree. The Braves need to clean house beginning with the manager and coaches to rid the team of this ” Cox culture”. Go back and read Tumbleweed’s post on the front page of your blog…our September collapse is just the symptom, the root cause is this inbred culture.

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Mr. Bradley, please let me pose this question to you:

Suppose this was 2012 and the Braves HAD managed to hold their 8 1/2 game wildcard lead over the Cardinals (meaning there was no September collapse), only then to lose a one-game playoff against a team nearly ten games worse record-wise than themselves and be eliminated from the playoffs. Tell me, do you think that scenario might just be more frustrating, deflating, and infuriating than what just occurred this season? Because next year just such a scenario is entirely plausible.

What would be more painful to bear for Braves (or ANY team’s) fans; a month-long malaise and total heartless collapse or a one-game elimination that ends a truly promising season? Your thoughts, please.

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Mark; one thing I disagree with is that Lowe’s past years have NO bearing on right now. There is a very RECENT…and extended (for this year…the year that counts NOW) history of this guy being well below average. He has been ineffective all year. So yes…there are several different guys I would have been comfortable in trotting out there.

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Will Terry Francona be available for the Braves in the next few days?

After their similar collapse, would the Braves even want him?

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The Braves are the joke of the day on CNBC.

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Well Derek Lowe choking everytime he started a game since like April didn’t help at all. If that clown is on the roster next year, and starting, I will not be watching.

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Aside from his obvious lack of ability to manage pitchers, Fredi spent all season changing the batting order. It understandable when a player gets injured but when the order is tweeked so much, it does affect players hitting.

Hitters have spots in the order that just work for their hitting style and personality. Fredi never seemed to get what spot in the order worked for which player and so he kept adjusting and adjusting right up to the very end. This is one of the reasons the team did not hit well when it needed to and a big reason that Fredi should not return as the manager.

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Lowe will be okay next year. It’s his last year and I don’t think he’s ready to retire after next season.

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Fredi and the whole damn staff need to be fired and run out of the city of Atlanta!

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FIRE FREDI
AND LONG LIVE THE CURSE OF DAVID JUSTICE,HE TOLD YALL REDNECKS AFTER THE 1995 TITLE,THAT THE BRAVES WOULD NEVER WIN ANOTHER TITLE!

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The fact that Larry Parrish kept his job through the entire 2011 season is pathetic… the fact that he will be back in 2012 is inexcusable. I’m not saying he has to be fired… just move him from his current position. Other than Chipper and Uggla, this was the most gutless team I have ever seen in any sport… ever. On top of Parrish coming back, if Lowe also comes back, I seriously am starting to think that winning is only their 3rd or 4th priority as a franchise.

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Anybody else just watch Bradley get all tongue-tied on Outside The Lines?

He also pretty much called all of us Braves fans sorry.. That’s cool at least being fans isn’t our job. Your a sorry columinst and always will be..

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ORGANIZATION

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I disagree. The entire coaching staff needs to be replaced.

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Fruiti Fredi will not bring anybody back if he is FIRED! Like right now. Like yesterday! This nonsense has to end. Whoever used the word “inbred” is dead right on this one! The culture has to change. Like now. Like yesterday. Fredi will never win anywhere, anytime. Get rid of the guy and hire someone who understands the game of baseball.

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Being tied down by Liberty Media, JS and Wren were unable to sign the needed RH power hitter……we instead end up with M Bourne . Until more money frees up or we get new ownership, it’s gonna be the same story.

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I WOULD ABSOLUTELY HAVE STARTED TEHERAN IN LOWE’S PLACE FOR EVERY SEMPTEBER START! Sorry, I don’t normally use caps, but I wholeheartedly disagree with Mark’s “c’mon” statement about starting Lowe. Lowe did nothing all year. I think he had, what, 5 quality starts? A quality start isn’t even good, it just means you gave your team a chance. If he pitches a single game next year, I will boycott the Braves until Freddi is gone.

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I’m sorry, Fredi’s a Great Guy, but made poor decisions, in my opinion. Maybe I don’t understand some of the factors that went into his decision-making, but he goes against percentages more often than most, and lacks the fire and intensity that when appropriately expressed can fire a team up…even as flakey as Pinella was, he achieved remarkable results under pressure. Bobby believes in him, but how would he honestly assess Fredi’s performance and defend his decisions. Also, keeping his bench players sharp and regularly putting them in the line-up (even if others are on a hitting streak) to even out the workload.

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I think Ty Cobb would be 125 years old now but would still get it right for our hitters. Sort of a Mr. Burns in knickers.

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Hmmm…from 1st in OBP to 14th, wow, didn’t realize it. You can blame the hitting coach, and I do wonder. But I guess the demise of Prado and Heyward really played a big role.

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[...] Midnight had come and gone, and Frank Wren stood in Bill Acree’s office just off the main clubhouse. (Acree is the Braves’ director of travel, and earlier he’d been triangulating the hoped-for trip to St. Louis and then to Milwaukee or … read full article… [...]

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Prado’s “demise” as you call it is due to an injury that had him out and set him back. Heywards on the other hand just needs to get a clue at the plate and in the field!

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First and second…nobody out…Chipper up. Uggla next. Bourne is thrown out trying to steal third. Uggla hits a 2-run dinger instead of a 3-run. Why…why…try to steal third with the boppers up and no one out.

I love speed, but that was stupid with a capital S. Was also the difference in the ballgame. Gotta be smart — and fast.

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Lowe loses 17 games on a team losing 73, yet he just keeps running him out there.

I was listening to an interview with Gonzalez the other morning and damn near crashed the car when his “justification” for pitching Lowe Tuesday was that if they had someone in the bullpen that was better, they would start. HELLOOOOOO – Minor, Tehran, even Martinez would be a MASSIVE improvement over this bum.

They should have DL’ed him like last year for a cortisone shot that got him going for the stretch run instead of winning 33% of his starts.

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Wonder if anyone has reminded FG of those games back in July and August that he basically threw away resting regulars, sometimes two at a time. I kept saying then he would regret not treating each game like it was the last one. Came down to one game, didn’t it Mr. FG? These are major league ballplayers and they get paid big bucks to be on the field, every game unless injured. Check out the schedule, and you will see a losing record on the weekends(as of about 2 weeks ago) which is when he usually rested starters. FG would make a good Vice-President for Obama. Neither he not BO have the slightest idea what they are doing!

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Ah come on guys……. It is what it is…… Gotta tip your caps… and now my new favorite, that’s here or there…… Well we are here, drowning in misery, and the Cards are there, where we should’ve been!

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I honestly feel like the braves were expecting The Phillies to not play hard, and were shocked, and not ready when they did…the braves were expecting a freebie…and didnt get one.

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Fire Fredi for crying out loud. And all the Chipper haters, shut your yaps up. The guy is playing on one leg to help this team TRY and win a game! The guy is a gamer and a Hall Of Famer. Would be my pick to manage the team next year. Nobody has done so much — for so long — for the same team that drafted him — as one Larry Wayne Jones, Jr. — other than Hank Aaron. Yeah, that Hall Of Famer! That guy.

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Fire Fredi? Because he is a hypocrite he lived by the sword now he must die by the sword.

The History teacher has created his own bad history and that’s all we Brave fans have to go off of when considering him. He preached history all year now look at his history.

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THE BRAVES NEED A HUMAN OWNER!!!!!!!!! They need someone with the checkbook who can go in a locker room or a coach’s office after a game and either heap praise or chew some butt. This corporate cable conglomerate, or whatever they are, from Colorado, or whatever state out west they sit in, is not going to go out and spend what’s needed to get what we need to win. Plain and simple. They don’t care about Atlanta, or the Braves; they care about profit margins and tax write-offs. Can anyone even name the CEO or board director??? I doubt any of the players can. This is the worst set up in baseball, and but for the talent of Shurholtz and Cox, this house of cards would have collapsed a long time ago, as it did this past September.

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Phillies, Class of The NL

I honestly feel like the braves were expecting The Phillies to not play hard, and were shocked, and not ready when they did…the braves were expecting a freebie…and didnt get one.

I don’t think the Phillies know how not to play hard.

The Braves, on the hand, do.

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Florida Guy, I wholeheartedly agree. Liberty Media doesn’t give a rat’s arse about what happens to this team so long as it stays within budget. The Braves need a hometown owner who will give the team the tools it needs to compete in today’s baseball world.

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Something good DID come out of all this: Liberty Media’s tax write-off for owning the Braves just claimed its last season. Bring on a new HUMAN, LOCAL ownership that cares about winning. Hey, I don’t care if Arthur Blank sits in the dugout (as he does on the Falcons’ sideline) if he cares enough to help the Braves win.

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Ok folks, get the anger and disappointment out of your systems cause nothing is going to change according to the all knowing MB. But me, I can’t read this drivel anymore. Makes me sick how sorry that fredi and the rest of the coaching staff is. But it is going to be allowed for another year. Shameful/

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Good article Mark, Fredi indeed managed like the green manager he is, but who hired him? It seemed like Bobby Cox treked down from the holy mountain to deliver the order of who should be the next manager to Wren, but it was Wren’s decision to hire a green manager. It was Wren’s decision to only go after Bourn when we shold have never allowed Philly to take Pence when we held the cards at the trading deadline. Pence’s bat in the soft weak Braves lineup would have won six games alone, not to mention take some pressure off our staff. This loser attitude the Braves have perfected since corprate ownership took over in the 90s is Frank Wren’s comfort zone. I say we move him away from this comfort zone and into the unemployment line.

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Ok. So Fredi says he’s bringing all of his coaches back next year. Has Fredi been told HE’S coming back?

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Guess we should’ve known something wasn’t quite right about this team about the time they all started hugging in celebration after a win/home run. There’s not exactly a place for that in baseball, which is deemed by most to be a man’s sport on the field.

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WAS ANYONE FROM “LIBERTY MEDIA” EVEN AT THIS GAME!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOO!!!!! they had a shareholder’s meeting to attend, or a tee time to make, or some other non-baseball, non-Atlanta matter to take care of. This is ridiculous. I am livid that the only Atlanta team to win a championship is owned by a bunch of out-of-town corporate idiots who wouldn’t know a baseball bat from a golf club. THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I think it is important to realize that any type of new ownership is not going to happen soon. The Braves have some nice pieces that enable them to compete right now. The Braves have great young starting and relief pitchers. They have a productive lead off batter and some good hitters mixed in the lineup. With the right additions and subtractions, there is every reason to believe that the Braves can be in the same position for the next couple of Septembers.

We just need new and fresh leadership on the field and in the coaching ranks so that the Braves can proceed deep into October. Chipper has been a great player and is certainly a hall of famer. But, all he knows (with the exception of his rookie year in 1995) is disappointment at the end of the season. I also cannot recall one clutch hit my him in the playoffs to win important games. Change is needed now so that the Braves can take advantage of their young and talented squad before the limited corporate payroll dictates that these players must go elsewhere.

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A tale of two franchises-Terry Francona seemed dejected after the loss…Fredi seemed almost buoyant. A seemingly very nice man(hey he rides a harley for fun ) but doesn’t someone have to answer for this failure?

Surely it hurt having hanson and jurjjens go down but really as we all know pitching wasn’t the problem-they were beaten 4-0, 4-1, 3-0, 4-2, and finally 4-3 in the last week alone. Hanson and Jurjjens would have lost those games as surely as beachy/minor/lowe- the problem is the team cannot hit when it count. The braves largely have a team of veterans(freeman had a fine rookie year and heyward is regressing-just as he was last year)…and those veterans collapsed-no mental toughness. Old joke-how do you neutralize the leading base stealer in the national league? Send him to the Braves.

It’s tough to hear that the braves were ‘battling’ and ‘giving it their all’-because if they were it makes it that much worse. I mean maybe they are telling the truth and everyone was trying as hard as they could…and ‘battling’-if they were then one does wonder why keep anyone involved.

Some would say firing the manager is reactionary…what is truly reactionary is firing the hitting coach. As if the braves season came down to larry parrish in the batting cage…this is a largely veteran team(is alex gonzalez listening to larry…does chipper or martin have long sitdowns with larry talking about swings-one has doubts). Why not blame the bench coach? All of these are silly cosmetic notions-Fredi really has to go.

Not because he isn’t a nice man and maybe he even does know a thing or two about baseball but his firing would at the very least shake off some of the complacency of the braves players. Teams that are truly ‘battling’ don’t lose 5 games in a row-and let’s be very clear on this…the phillies were giving that game away last nite-Schimer has a 5.02 era after he worked 2 scoreless innings against the braves . Teams that are ‘battling’ come back and win games they shouldn’t have-see here st louis repeatedly.

Fredi has to go-if just to shake off the feel good(’hey did a lot of great things’-fredi’s quotes post game were that of a man either utterly ignorant of or in denial of the situation) rah rah nonsense that permeates the braves organization and the atlanta media-i guess one positive that can be gleaned from all of this-dave obrien(fidddling while rome burns indeed) can stop writing his columns about hanson and jurjjens coming back to help the braves in the postseason.

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I’ve never heard a bigger bunch of sorehead losers and poor sports like the commenters on this blog. We’ll get ‘em next year.

The only good fan is a cheering fan. (So stfu, bad fans).

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I don’t think there is a true Braves fan that did not see this comming last night. Going into the month is the problem, yes you loose two pitchers but 10-20 are for teams like Baltimore or KC not the Braves. They have a 90 million dollar payroll, but still could not beat the mets, nationals or marlins? Fredi’s first year shows what Fl already new, he is not very good. But just like every other sports team in this town he was hired because he would not make any waves. Bobby Cox light, which means the collapse and bad play will begin much earlier than post season. I guess the bright side is saving the embarasment of lossing in the national spot light. Hard right now to stay postive given the way sports in this town is going, you are next Arthur. Get off the F****** sidelines you egotistical F***. Looserville has returned with great vengence!

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And Fredi has been a success where? Fire is non-managing ass!

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Remember a couple of weeks ago when I said MB reminded me of Kevin Bacon’s ROTC character in Animal House screaming “ALL IS WELL” amid the bedlam…. just before the crowd trampled him?

It’s now “Crowd 2 : Kevin Bacon 0″

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Henry D said it perfectly. Homerun or nothing!! That is not SMART BASEBALL!! Look and learn from top teams like the Yanks and Phils (and even Bosox) and you’ll see the hitters trained to work the pitchers. It’s one of the reasons the Yanks and Bosox games take so long but it works. I love Brian but he tried to pull every outside pitch and swuang at a ball in the dirt with the bases loaded and in a key situation vs. the Nats in a game that was lost by one run. Joe Simpson even said that in a situation like that, with the pitcher on the ropes you swing at YOUR pitch. Of course, the next pitch he hit a long fly ball to cf…..majestic, but an out!! Same thing with the bases loaded on Sunday with no outs. Bourn on a 3-1 count swung at a bad pitch popping to third, Martin reached for an outside pitch (after swinging at a ball) and popped to right and Chipper (of course) swung at the very first pitch which was a ball to ground out. Again, NOT SMART BASEBALL and that’s the reason for the collapse. I’m not in favor of firing anyone but Parrish’s Earl Weaver 3 run homer approach does not work.

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@hoho – From the Twitter feed:

Millions of Larry Parrish fans exult! RT @ajcbraves: #Braves will bring back their entire coaching staff, manager Fredi Gonzalez said. 3 hours ago

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Mark, please turn in your resignation letter to the AJC.

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Stupid GM is to blame. He could of assured a title is have the brains to trade a couple of prospects for Hunter Pense, who is now the Phillies best player.

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and so did Philadelphia lose two pitchers Bradley.. Thats a stretch and a excuse. Go back to the drawing board. On this one. Chipper had injuries and played hurt as hell and game 162 Gonzalez sits for hamstring injury. Bradley what are you smoking? Get back to the real world….

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Roy Orbison said it best–”It’s Overrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr”. Trade some of these arms that no one trusted in the end and get some hitters. Frank Wren, don’t continue to be a John S. Make the necessary changes to get past the just good team. Make it a really good team. Trade for what you need. Yankees have got by on average pitching for the past 10 years (except for last night). Lots of runs will offset average pitching. You only need 2 really good pitchers, 2 good pitchers and one average pitcher to go to the world series. But if you can’t score, YOU WILL NOT WIN.

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I am die-hard Braves. I was a Braves fan through years of Dave Bristol, Chuck Tanner and Russ Nixon. Pathetic teams on par with this year’s Astros and Royals. I have seen them throw out a pitching staff of Niekro and bunch of bums with a line-up that was always average save a few bangers in a small ballpark. Last night hurts. It stinks to be a Braves fan today. They choked. But after a while I will look back and realize that these Braves gave us a chance of being a playoff team with a mid-level payroll, a bunch of young pitchers and no threat in their line-up on par with Pujols or Howard. And they are in a division with a loaded Phillies team. That’s considerably more than they ever gave in 70’s and 80’s (apart from one or two years under Torre.)

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I guess we all know why the Marlins let Fredi go now. He can’t manage a major league baseball team. But then again we don’t have ownership that wants to win so who cares?

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The screw up was pitching Lowe in game two they should have pitched Tim Hudson in that game.

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“I asked. This was Fredi’s response: “That’s here or there.”

uh …………. what does that even mean Dr. Seuss?

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The Braves are in the Playoffs!

Ex-Braves that is. Andrew Jones, Raphael Furcal et al, enjoy the post season.

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Sonny Clusters is on target once again.

Regarding Constanza, yes, he is a journeyman, but his promotion brought to the Braves something they never had before, the ability to manufacture runs. Michael Bourn was added and things were working, the games were EXCITING for once, and… the future won out. Had to get Wayward back in there someone, Fredi?, Wren? decided. The Braves were never the same. Would the collapse have happened otherwise, we will never know, but check the percentage record when Georgy started and when JayWay started.

Two games were the difference in being in the playoffs and losers. I think we can pretty well assume a good manager would have been worth two games. Getting rid of Linebrink when they dumped Proctor might have been the difference.

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I have watched Baseball since Durocher Fred has no pizzaz in the clutch. Lowe should not have pitched. Durocher would have used his bullpen as starters in that game. He would have used Constanza in the 13th in yesterday’s game to replace the runner to steal and avoid a double play. He would have had Kimble out of there after the first walk (considering his flameout recently). He would have had McCann replaced by a great backup. Fredi is to blame for the loss of about 4 games down the stretch. He seemed scared and not on top of things. Defending the boys of autumn was not his job but benching those not hitting was. This is a terrible loss for the Southeast fans.

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This is baseball, nopt softball, right?…..why does every sorry arse Brave for the last 19 years try to hit it out? Just hit it….the runs will come….DAMN.

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freddie fire the hiting coach or in the long run you will be fired!!!!!!!

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So Bradley was this column your way of rapping the management knuckles without saying TOO much?

Pretty gutless column. They stunk it up and should wear the mantra of chokers who need to make some changes. Fredi needs to go and his move to keep Parrish should seal his fate!

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Let’s hope Lowe will retire and since KK and McLoser now come off the board maybe we can spend a little more for quality hitters. However, the uninspiring effort might make the front office reluctant to go after what we really need. Hitters.

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Replace Parrish with Dave Kingman. He’s not busy right now.

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The mismanaging was done by John Schuerholz and Frank Wren for having Chipper Jones and Derek Lowe still on the roster. Fredi got dealt deuces. Hudson (good), Beachy, Lowe and Minor does not a starting staff make. Yes Venters and Kimbrel were over-worked….smoke and mirrors…if they had not been, we would never have gotten to Aug 25th with a 10.5 game lead. My only bitch is that we have not gotten Tehran settled into the rotation…and that maybe more McDowell than Fredi.

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seasons’ over and done,, quit beimg FANatics it’s just a game played by overpaid adolescents. you bloggers have better things to do and i can assure you the braves’ lamers are out spending their $$$ without a concern about you. it’s just a game played for entertainment and profit. look at the teams in the playoffs, they play hard every minute of every game. the braves are LOSERS!!! and it starts in the dugout. the frediot must go!!!

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I say it’s football season. Get over the Braves and lets turn to the pig-skin.

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on lineups-
1)bourn -played with some fire and should have an excellent year

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More Bradley garbage, you can’t disect one baseball game. We played pretty good baseball for 145 games and played lousy baseball for the month of September. I’ve been a diehard braves fan since 1966 but i was not pulling for us last night. We didn’t deserve to be in the playoffs this year. In the big boy leagues hitting coaches don’t make or break teams. Major League hitters have to make adjustments all year long. Many of our guys don’t adjust very well. We helped a lot of pitchers look much too good ! We got a good nucleus of a ball team, just need a couple of more pieces

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cont….:D
1) bourn- played with some fire and should have an excellent year
2) prado lf-braves are cheap and he is on the decline…more of the same(woeful numbers for an outfielder) from him and definitely another late season physical collapse
3)Freeman 1b-expect an outstanding year(35 homers and 100 rbi)
4)Uggla 2b -same season as this one with fewer homers(low average and he will continually be snakebitten while here)
5)Bmac c-hard to say…looks like he is on the decline. mentally and physically…another late season breakdown is likely
6)Chipper 3b-can’t move him…expect at best average performance and of course physical breakdowns
7)Heyward rf-broken both mentally(esp. after being sat down for diaz) and physically-another subpar year perhaps sent to minors for periods of time
8)Gonzalez/rookie/second tier free agent-Braves probably go with a glove guy here with no bat…again the cheapness

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If he brings Larry Parrish back he’s an F’n moron. You don’t get from 1st in on base to 14th in one year with basically the same freaking roster. Fredi is an idiot and next year when the same crap happens he’ll hopefully get fired.

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And fire FW too!!

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@bobby dews – Prado is 27 and had a staph infection. He also had to change positions all year and learn to hit with a basestealer in front of him. He is entering his prime. He will be fine.

Mac was also hurt. He was an MVP candidate before he pulled his oblique. My guess is he came back too soon and compensated for the pain by changing his swing. He is also 27 and entering his prime. He will be fine.

Chipper is what he is at 40. Uggla will have a slightly better BA and roughly 30 HRs. Hopefully these 2 will drive in more runs with Bourn here all year.

Heyward had a rough Sophomore year, but plenty of great players did as well. He’s 22 and has all the physical tools. Give him a chance.

Seabass will almost definitely be back on a 1 year deal until Pastornicky is ready.

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@rowsdower-
you know you could very well be right-i mean mac is a proven commodity(5 time allstar)…but-the physical breakdowns of the last two years do cause some concern. Why should we assume that just because its a new year he will somehow be stronger(mentally and physically-his defense as you know is poor but his offense was more than making up for it)? Isn’t it fair to think that he broke down the last two years…and it is more likely he will break down again.

To prado-his numbers even if healthy will not be those of a starting outfielder. His bat is light(no hr’s no rbis) and his arm is poor. I’m not high on prado when healthy and again as with mccann what is to suggest that nagging injuries wont be a problem again in 2012.

Heyward is the mystery-he has the physical tools…but appears fragile(im sure everyone remembers his dissapearing act with his ‘hurt’ shoulder). The lack of hustle and awareness is a very real concern with him…and of course he has huge holes in his swing. Will he perform like he did for about 60 games of his rookie season(really well) or will he perform like the rest of his body of work(poorly-can’t hit, frequently injured, benched for diaz of all people).

My guess is that Uggla hits .240 or so and like the rest of the braves will fold/fail whenever the games matter. Counting on a bunch of if’s and maybes is what the braves did in 2011 and what they will once again do in 2012.

Bright spots-bourn and freeman
possible bright spots-mccann(with improved fitness and bounceback year)
dim spots-the rest

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For me this is what must happen:

Bourn = obviously is safe. Will have a huge year next year b/c he’ll be a free agent.

Prado = is safe. Good 2 hitter and a good player. He had Staph. Wish he would be at 3B rather than OF.

Mac = is safe. One of the best catchers in MLB. Let Ross play more often. Mac plays hard. He seemed to have gotten tired.

Uggla = is safe. He will have a better year b/c he’ll be more relaxed from the start since he has been here a year.

Freeman = is safe. Great defender and solid bat.

Need a right hand hitting left fielder that can put the ball in play here.

Heyward = is safe. Great talent that needs confidence back but that’ll only happen when someone shows they have confidence in him.

Need a SS that can make plays and at least put the ball in play.

Encourage Chipper to retire. Great player thats just too old now.

Keep Ross, Constanza, Diaz.

Release the rest.

Get rid of Lowe, Linebrink. Let the rest compete for spots.

Get rid of Parrish and put Freddi on notice that this is not acceptable again

Most importantly, always, always, always upgrade when possible. This is a game but the goal must be to win. It has to be important and everyone needs to know that if you relax and get complacent you will be gone! Big difference between playing tight and playing complacent. Braves did not look tight to me. They looked sorry this past month.

If there is a club house problem get rid of it!!

Come on Frank. You did well this year. Made some good moves. Keep it up b/c we need a left fielder and a SS.

Lastly, tell Freddi the bullpen rotation thing we did this year needs to be over

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Ooops, forgot one of the most important things.

Tell the starting pitchers now that they had better be ready to go more than 6 damn innings when we break spring training next year. If they can’t they can go pitch for the Astros or somebody. Its a mindset and ours is to be ahead after 5 or 6 and let our good pen guys kill their careers and our hopes of having a pen in Sept.

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I was fully in support of Fredi until I heard some of his flippant answers and the absurd decision to retain Parrish as our hitting coach. If Fredi can’t make better decisions than to retain Parrish, then he needs to be fired. As for his smarkalec answers, he is in no position to be a smartass.

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Someone said on another column by JS(no comment section) that the “big” question asked of Fredi G was about pitching to Pence and not putting him on to get to Martinez. FG would not answer the question after the game, but did Thursday morning. I, and probably many others, think there is another question that is even bigger, in fact, IT’s HUGE! What manager, who has a clue as to what he is doing, would bring in Lowe to start a must-win 161st game, and Linebrink in relief with the game on the line, knowing what they had done in their last few games? That has to be the epitome of ineptitude!!!!!

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Fredi has one more season. No playoffs, no job. The Larry Parrish experiment is a failure. Perfect example is the multi-talented, severely underachieving Justin Heyward. Clearly the Braves organization seems to have a problem with finding someone to achieve the best possible results as a hitting coach. Hopefully having a healthy pitching staff next April will pay dividends, but Frank Wren clearly needs to stop pinching pennies with the relief staff and do something to bolster that group. No more washed up relievers please.

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If your a braves fan like me from the 70s ,then you knew with linebrink in the game, with the season on the line it was over.You have to pitch your best there no matter what.most of these guys are not big time players but hopefuls and the big timers show up like uggla and bourne, the rest trade for pitching.

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What it comes down to, Braves don’t really care about competing in Sept or Oct. They are all CASHING in ,patting themselves on the back. Manuel showed the Great Fredi how to use your pitchers, by committee. Lowe did not deserve to pitch a playoff type game. Why is that everyone can see that Mark Redman was washed up in a Braves uniform but give DLOWE the benefit of doubt? There are so many ways a smart manager would have gotten this team to compete like the Rays did but you will never see it from this coaching staff. By the way how many times did FrediG get thrown out of ballgames having his players’ backs?

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Marlins sweep Braves next year or Guillen gets thrown out of half of those games

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Even if JJ and Tommy had not been out hurt, 3.1 runs per game most likely would’ve produced the same result.

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Schultz right Bradley wrong.And if Wren stands pat with this roster the Braves will be fighting the Mets for 4th place.

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Sitting here reading some of these blogs, the day after ! So many opinions, and suggestions, and many of them are right on the money…..The braves need a makeover ! They need someone to come in and take control of the team. They need to stay off the golf course during baseball season and concentrate on hitting a baseball. Ponder this ! Since the braves farm club is right up the road, what’s wrong with bringing these guys down to pitch batting practice….I don’t mean tossing the ball ! I mean someone who can throw the same kind of pitches that the scheduled pitcher will throw to them in the game that night ! Any thoughts on that ?

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Fire Fredi? NOPE FIRE Terry MCJERK the architect of this disaster and mediocrity!

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come on you fair weather fans. it is no time to panic. i cant think of a better team to be with or to start the season with than this team. d lowe will bounce back. just had a lot of bad luck this year. our long relievers will be ready to go 6 innings next year. our short relievers who go every day will be rested. our hitters had a lot of bad luck this year. we saw the ball good just couldnt get it in the right place. everything is looking rosey. and one other thing. tonights game is just another game in a long season. ohhhh i almost forgot, we are not playing. i guess we will be fighting for 3rd place in the division now that florida hired a manger with some fire and doesnt pat players that need a kick, doesnt make excuses for players that need a chewing, doesnt keep playing players not getting their job done instead of sitting them and challenging them to step up. another year we will be stuck with freddi leo cox.

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With the low payroll the Braves are right where they’re going to be from now on

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they ran glenn hubbard off because they knew he was man for job, but lets bring in man who marlins ran out of town..

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Fire Fredi and anyone else who wants to be a pal to the players, leave the fans in the stands and get someone who wants to win, Fredi did not earn his money. When you look up and see Linebrink is the man between us and the heart of the Phillies lineup you have to wonder what is Fredi thinking to put himself in this situation. Sad to say but until we get an owner who wants to win vs a corporation who wants to make a good steady return on his investment we are doomed to be an average team. Ted Turner, where are you!!

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So what constitutes a good manager? This team has lacked the passion for two decades under Bobby Cox and it was no different under his hand-picked successor. Freddie was a deer in headlights the last week of the season and it showed in the players. Sure Bobby was a good regular season manager, but lack the fire and baseball managerial intelligence to win and manage in the post-season. There must be another Kirk Gibson J. madden out there to instill confidence and fire into this club.

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It was pretty obvious during the month of September (and most of the year really) this team did not have what it takes to be a championship caliber team. If you watch the way teams like Philly and St Louis play, they take advantage of opportunities like “1st and 3rd with one out”, we when were the absolute worst in this situations.

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Actually Edo, I don’t think it’s ok with the fan base, probably is a big reason why attendance isn’t what it was back in the 90’s. Now the fans just make excuses why they don’t go to the games instead of sucking it up and actually being there to support the team.

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Calm down, Braves fans. We are going to be alright. Hindsight is 20/20, but we had to sign D Lowe and Kawakami to buy time for these young pitchers. All of our best players are very young. Name one playoff team that would be there if they lost their number 1 and 2 pitchers? You can’t. The Atlanta Braves are a very deep and talented up and down the organization, and will continue to get better.

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At least Kimbrel accepts responsibility and admits he choked, although he doesn’t use that exact word. He’s a rookie and can be forgiven for being tight in that situation. I expect him to have a fine career, barring injury. Maybe if a teammate or coach had walked to the mound to talk to him he would have done better. Maybe.

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Yeah I think Kimbrel having 5 days off before hand didn’t help matters either. He was obviously over throwing. And he did admit the pressure got to him. Still it goes back to the offense IMO.

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Get Francona!

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Fredi burned out his bullpen in Florida. He’s now burned out the bullpen arms here in Atlanta as well.

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Anyone who questions why Fredi didn’t walk Pence doesn’t know a damn thing about baseball. The runner on 3rd was the go ahead run, NOT THE WINNING RUN. The Braves were at home, NOT ON THE ROAD. If you walk Pence then you put another runner in scoring position where a hit could score TWO runs and an extra base hit could score THREE runs. If the Braves were the road team then you could justify walking Pence because his run would mean nothing. But the Braves were the home team and loading the bases would accomplish nothing except setting up the Phillies for a potential big inning. Fredi did the right thing and there is no arguing this point.

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First of all “a lot” are two words not one.

Let’s face it. We lost 2 of our best pitchers. I can pitch better than Lowe did this week and I suck. Our hitters weren’t hitting and Craig Kimbrel pitched in panic mode and lost us our 3 – 1 lead. You cannot blame Freddy. However, we need to hit. We have some great hitters who quit hitting in September. Jason Heyward was just awful this year. And don’t forget about that ball he lost in the lights. Go Falcons – although they ain’t doing so great right now.

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It has pretty much all been said.
The Braves need to bring back Mazzone
in some capacity, even if it only as a
consultant. There were too many injuries to
our pitchers, and some were probalby due to
mechanics. Mazzone excelled at that. He also
knew how to calm a pitcher down, and tell them
to throw strikes with the use of expletives if
necessary.

The RISP and inability for the hitters to make
adjustments speaks for itself. This is an
indictment of Parrish who many believed lacked
the credentials to be a hitting coach.

Fredi should know by now that being in charge means
making tough decisions and adjustments in a timely
manner. He is ultimately responsible for the results.
He most likely gets a free pass this year, but next
year his “feet should be held to the fire”.

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Suzie actually the score was 3-1 when Kimbrel came in to pitch.

Constanza rolled his ankle was the reason he was removed from the line up. He DID make a few starts afterwards, but was never the same “spark plug” like he was when first called up.

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I believe hitting below .200 in September with RISP would justify hiring a new hitting coach. Anyone know what our season avg was with RISP?

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To be clear, I am not necessarily saying Fredi should be fired, but standing pat and acting like nothing is wrong and bringing back the entire coaching staff intact is foolish. At the very least Parrish should be gone.

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Miss me now?

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Constanza was a GIFT that Fredi ignored. This “journeyman” might not have delivered us into the WS, but he would have helped the Braves avoide this historic collapse. How many one run games did the Braves lose in the 20 losses? Could not disagree with you more on your assessment of a .300 hitting speedster who got a break, took advantage of it, helped give fire to this team, and then then got shelved because he isn’t considered a Hank Aaron reincarnate.

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Mark…so easy to point the blame towards Larry Parrish, the hitting coach…noticing that his coaching has had little to no succes in the past. I watched you on TV the other night…and it seems fingers need to point here…and there. Most people: FIRE GONZALEZ, FIRE PARRISH…FIRE THIS, FIRE THAT…natural reactions to a team going south when they should still be in the playoffs. The point now? The season is over…what is really going to make the difference here. No apologies anymore…no sorry here…no more you did it! You did it..take the blame!
Real, concrete answers. You all seem to think that the coaching staff will be back and all will be doing exactly as they have been all of these years. Not necessarily the truth. The Braves Organization has the right to keep the members…their primary responsibilities? Those can be changed…without a blink.
Trades can be done, with sacrifices made.
You have to take a good, hard look at what actually happened, what should have happened…and what needs to be happen. I would not care if some of the members of this organization would be happy or not. you must, will and need to do what is best, for the Atlanta Braves, in order to get back to the 1990’s…when they were the best of best. It is going to take all of these off-season months…but get back to the drawing board and get some results!
NOW…MORE THAN EVER….

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It is interesting that ESPN is reporting Terry Francona will not be back as BoSox manager due to their September collapse, but Fredi announces his staff stays in tact? A tale of two cities and expectations I suppose. We expect to be mediocre!

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How is all liking that SS trade ? Escobar a distraction ? Perhaps he wanted to win more than the rest of the club ?

Obviously there is no Fire or team leader, and who was the last team leader……Justice ?

The over all hitting concept sucked…… a guy walks, then another guy walks, and the third guy in a row swings at the first pitch…..

The Braves forgets the pitcher is the one with the pressure on…. so they bail the pitcher out constantly…Thus the worst team in the majors at moving guys along on the base path.

And Hayward is NOT the answer in right field…..he cannot see the ball off the bat, and his arm is erratic as heck.

T

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If Parrish, stays, I’ll walk with my wallet. Lots of other ways to be entertained. FG is a placeholder. I just hope we don’t become Pittsburgh or Houston before management figures that out.

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So Wren get’s a pass? Wasn’t he the same guy that boasted in the winter and spring we now had a
potent offense? Basically we banked on some young kids with pitching and hitting. Lack of maturity and experience kicked in August and September. Freddi did an outstanding job with what he had to work with. Youth. Shame on all of you that can’t figure this out. That was a team on a budget.

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Second class team keeps “loser” for Manager and Red Sox a first class team Fires Manager that won more world Championships than Cox. Because they intend to stay first class.
Braves will stay Losers!

Braves will remain loser with Fredi calling the shots.
For the Love of God ~ Please~~ Liberty~sell the Braves to someone who cares.

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I’ve said all year that Fredi was not doing the best managing job. I never liked all of the lineup switching. He never seemed to get it.

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Chris Snow, You trip me out with your love affair with Fredi and his Clowns. Its cool to be a loyal fan but man don’t you see the truth from BS. Its people like you thats happy just going along scare me.

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Exactly where did you see me post that I was “happy with the way things are”. Because I’m certainly NOT!

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Fredi said all the Braves needed was one broken bat single to turn things around, and yet, he never sent someone to the batter’s box with a broken bat.

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Pendleton lll,,Wren will get one off waivers are when another team release one. CHEAP!

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In my view Fredi is a mild mannered guy who needs to be accempted and loved by everyone. Sadly this is not what makes a successful major league manager. How many times did Fredi protest a call and really get upset (or appear to be)? From how many games was Fredi ejected? While getting kicked out a game really does not affect the call, managers for years have used this tactic as a tool to motivate players. Should professsion baseball players require this knid of motivation? Certainly not, but remember this is an emotional game and sometimes these moves need to happen. Summarily, Fredi is a good guy and would do well in the minors where he can work with young ball players and nuture them along. He should not, however, be the leader of a major league club……Good luck to the team in 2012 but I am afraid without a change in on field management that will result in a culture change in the clubhouse the Braves are doomed to further failure.

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I say fire Fredi. All he does is sit and watch the games. He is no Bobby cox and never will be. Bobby was always up and cheering his players on. I have been a Braves fan for many years and never did understand why Terry Pendleton was not the hitting coach this year. Sad and almost unforgiveable.

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The Braves have scouts, that provided them with information on Philly. They needed to have a plan of attack for each of the starting pitchers as well as bullpen pitchers that they might face.

That’s where the hitting coach really earns his keep. Fredi, the manager, should be aware of the strategies, and has to sign off on them. So Fredi, and the rest of the coaching staff is responsible for preparing and motivating the team to play to it’s potential.

That did not happen, and Fredi is going to keep the coaching staff as it is?

What things are the Braves planning to change to improve this team, and/or to prevent a similar result in the future?

All those division winners with Cox, and 1 championship. The Braves continue to do less with more than many of teams in the league (talent, not money, but when Ted was there, they had money, and still made bad moves. They could have won 3 -4 titles, if they had a closer, but they added guys that were over the hill, or unreliable).

It’s difficult as a fan to continue to pour your money into supporting this organization (jerseys, tees, tickets, etc), when you see them not willing to make adjustments to address their shortcomings.

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All the talk on Constanza. All I got to say is when he was playing we were winning and then, and then, along came Heyward and we stop winning.
Our great Mgr couldn’t see that.

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THE BRAVES NEED TO DUMP:

the chop

the cap shuffle

the tool race

the 7th inning hoedown

the loudmouth stadium announcer (HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BASEBALL FANS!!)

the 100-decible sound system

the Crazy Train song (Aye, aye, aye…)

the high ticket prices

the high parking prices

the high beer prices

the terrible food

the Sunday red jerseys

the players’ Mohawks

the wave

the 2010 Wild Card pennant on the wall

Scott Linebrink

Derek Lowe

Chipper Jones

pretty much everything else except the following:

WHAT THE BRAVES NEED TO KEEP:

Medlen

Delgado

Teheran

Minor

Beachy

Kimbrell

Venters

O’Flaherty

Freeman

Bourn

Constanza

Jim Powell

the Tomahawk Team dancing girls

the organ player

the grounds crew

the bat boys

that’s about it

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What about the dirt throwing

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Baseball buff@ 11:oo~~so very true.

Fire Fredi ASP!

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I know we all kinda wanted Fredi to replace Bobby. In fact we all thought that was the right move because he was from the Bobby Cox tree. But if u think about it,Fredi didn’t really do much with the Fish. Didn’t they have a somewhat horrendous collapse down in Florida as well in his years while coaching there? I mean we all blame the Marlins front office, which is easy to do, but Gonzalez didn’t do anything with the factory of MLB talent that is the Florida Marlins.

Aint no COX to blame anymore and
NOT hitting is proof enough,
but MR. GONZALEZ …..this is on YOU!

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didnt sp

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I agree with the sentiment that there needs to be a culture change.

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It’s all on Gonzalez. He’s in charge and they had an epic fold on his watch. In those last 2 games, Joe Maddon sends out his pitching coach and comes out personally to encourage young pitchers; Fredi had this spacy look as if his mind was disengaged. He’s too passive-aggressive for this bunch of players…get rid of him.

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….now everybodys a manager….
…I thought we lost because the fans didnt sellout the stadium?

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gotta..Cox still making recommendations with JS and Wren
If they fire Fredi it would make Fla look right for firing him. Cox made Fla mad saying they should not have fired him etc. Braves don’t wish to make Fish look right by doing the same.

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I want to clear this misinformation on Constanza once and for all.
Constanza did NOT go into slump.
He never got to start more than two games in a row.
Fredi sat him when he went two games in a row without a hit.
And he never consistently got to play again.
They should have left him in the lineup. He was even
more productive than Bourn in August.
IMO, not playing him regularly after Aug. cost the playoff birth.

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Yea, Fredi Failed and here is how……..

Day one, Fredi went with two rookies in Brandon Hicks and Matt Young, then proceeded to let them rot on the bench before sending both back to the minors.

He went with Derek Lowe as the Braves opening day starter, nothing could have stung more for Tim Hudson. The ensuing season proved Fredi wrong in his assessment of his pitching staff.

Fredi’s decision to bat Prado at the top of the Braves order was a disaster right from the word go. Prado did hit .283 with an OBP of .323 but he also stole one base, scored an anemic 28 runs in 47 games, and got caught four times before Fredi finally wised up while realizing foot speed was more important.

The bullpen. Fredi burned’em and I’m talking toast. The man simply overworked Kimbrel, Venters and O’Flaherty. They were all gassed at the end…all three.

But what has got me steaming mad, ticked off and ready to throw Fredi under the bus is one single game. The one where Fredi showed such poor judgement that he arguably blew their whole season.

I’m talking about 19 inning affair on July 26th. I watched the whole damn thing. I saw McCann come up lame in the third inning with the sore oblique again. I watched Fredi keep Mac in the game into the tenth inning when McCann really did severely injure his oblique in extra innings. Mac went on the DL and never recovered his swing afterward. All because our manager didn’t have the common sense to bring Ross into the game knowing his catcher was already hurting.

As for Fredi’s decision to keep marching Derek Lowe out to the mound game after game…..the results speak for themselves. Only suicide could have been more effective at tanking the entire season.

Finally, yanking Chipper out of the three hole was robbing Peter to pay Paul. The switch went nowhere fast and really irked Chipper in the process. In the end Fredi showed impatience, indecision, poor judgement and really disappointed this fan beyond words.

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Freddi@11:22 it will never sellout as long as you are there.

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I mentioned a company name in a post, and apparently it was automatically filtered or deleted. I was only mentioning the strike zone on TV as it was shown on the “_____ Track” box thing. You can fill in the blank yourself (hint: it’s a red, wild, dog-like animal that upper-class Englishmen like to hunt). You can say anything you want on these blogs as long as you never, ever mention a powerful corporation. Remember, Big Brother is watching you.

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Thank you, Terrence Randall Pendleton III.

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So many gurus saying Fredi burned the bullpen through overuse. Funny I don’t remember you warning him about that in August.

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…..and at the end…..and with all of our injuries…..we lost to the best team in baseball.
The Philthadelpia Phillies…aka the 2011 World Series Champions.
How could we get swept by crappy pitchers like Lee, Oswalt and Hamels(in long relief). Those guys stink. (I really think we were World Series bound until the fans didn’t sellout Turner Field).

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the* not they

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If the braves could figure a way to use the thirty million being paid to Chipper and Derrick and sign six or seven players in the three to five million dollar range. This way they have more options when a player is slumping or injured. Frank Wren needs to try this system and go ahead and win a WORLD SERIES!!!

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…has nothing to do with the fans coming or not…you have to field the best team. We didn’t have the best team. That would be…….yep..you guessed it. The Philthadelphia Pheel-me’s.

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What I was trying to say when I was apparently filtered, probably for mentioning a corporate name (the “_____ Track” box thing that shows the strike zone on TV), was that the “_____ Track” box thing showed the Phillies’ pitchers were consistently getting strikes called on pitches that were clearly low and outside. My point was that Bobby would have been bending the umpire’s ear all night for that, but Fredi said nothing. Similarly, on the bad call in which Bourn was called out at third, Bobby would have chewed that umpire’s face off, but Fredi’s brief argument died with a whimper. The players knew Bobby had their back, and that made a difference.

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Wait a minute people…It’s my fault. Not Fredi’s.

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Available….just say’n.

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I’ve tried three times to mention the strike zone thing on TV and each one was deleted. All I was trying to say was how the TV box thing showed the Phillies’ pitchers were consistently getting strikes called on pitches that were clearly low and outside. My point was that Bobby would have been bending the umpire’s ear all night for that, but Fredi said nothing. Similarly, on the bad call in which Bourn was called out at third, Bobby would have chewed that umpire’s face off, but Fredi’s brief argument died with a whimper. The players knew Bobby had their back, and that made a difference.

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Gonzalez not responsible?? Come on, get real. He should still be a base coach……he’s no manager; the Marlins found that out! Word this morning is that Francona’s available……..HE has a record, despite the Sox collapse. Bring him in to restore some order.

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Too late now.
Nothings gonna get done with Braves until we have a real owner.
All the dudes from frank wren up are just money managers that are placid,bland people and thats the kind of person they want working for them.
At least Frank Wren is an arrogant azz though.
Thats something.

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I’ve already seen this movie once before when that Nation known as the Sox used to lose for 85 years since 1918 and yet they still won 2 world series titles in 2004 and 2007–not to mention those Chicago WhiteSox who used to lose all the time since 1917 and yet they still won the world series in 2005,so that’s 3 World Series titles combined for both teams.The Braves are going through that same October heartbreak of either losing in October not even reaching the postseason since 1995, hey the Braves are going through all of this now, but hey they will end all of their heartbreaking defeats and start winning big ones in October year after year sometime in the near future.The RedSox and the WhiteSox have already done that,the Braves will start winning big ones in October every year soon.GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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IF anyone gives credit to the Marlins management for firing Fredi and knowing what they were doing…..for Gods sake….they just hired Ozzie Guillen…who replaced 102 year old “Trader Jack” McKeon. (He got that nickname because he actually use to trade pelts with the Indians).

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They fired him cause he didn’t win.

And then Hanley.

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11:44 @4 ever..Man u crazy/whay u smoking dud!

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long time braves fan..they also trade Uggla to Braves for Omar..lol

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Sickening!!! FIRE FRANK and the whole Cox good ‘ol boy system…What have they ever done??? All those good teams and they won one Championship…to me…that is a failure! Cox is overrated and so is Fredi!

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Uh they did win 2 World Series to our 1.

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I like Fredi Gonzalez and do not blame him for the collapse, but with this young team and upcoming prospects, Terry Francona would be a perfect manager for the Braves. TF is now available. Hire Francona now!

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When you accept being average then that’s what you become….Average! Should change the name to the Atlanta Average Just so so Braves. When you get a coaching job with our organizion its for LIFE…No matter if we win or lose…Just glad to have ya.

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What justifies Francona being fired and Gonzalez and ALL of his coaches staying? I am not advocating Gonzalez being fired, but I would feel a lot better about next season if Fredi had said that he would be closely evaluating his coaches’ 2011 performance to see if any changes need to be made. That would have at least let us know that Fredi IS NOT SATISFIED with what happened, and is going to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to prevent it from happening again in 2012. As for the players, if Derek Lowe is still on the roster in 2012 and Chipper Jones is our every day third baseman, the Braves have NO CHANCE in 2012.

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Well at least Frank did make a comment that they would sit and down and do some evaluations. We could end up with a new hitting coach after all.

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To Jeff Rooks: Isn’t it amazing that teams fire managers who have won the World Series in the past? Here? The good ole boy club rewards managers who behave decently and keep it low key. I am so damn pis&ed at the Braves right now!

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I give Fredi one more year to make it right. If this it happens again, I bet we’ll have a new manager for 2013.

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