Fire Fredi? No, but the Braves did some major mismanaging
Esteemed colleague Mike Luckovich offers this extremely flattering bit of imagery.
Midnight had come and gone, and Frank Wren stood in Bill Acree’s office just off the main clubhouse. (Acree is the Braves’ director of travel, and earlier he’d been triangulating the hoped-for trip to St. Louis and then to Milwaukee or Phoenix. Moot point now.) The general manager was staring at a TV above the door. Boston had just lost. Tampa Bay had just won.
“Coming into September,” Wren said, disbelief in his voice, “we [meaning the Red Sox and the Braves] had two of the four best records in baseball.”
Neither will be part of the sport’s eight-team tournament, and today the Braves’ one source of consolation is that the Sox choked even harder than they did. (Unbelievable that two of the three biggest September flops in the game’s century-long annals were concluded within moments of each other. The third happened in 1964 to the Pholdin’ Phils.) There were similarities in these contemporary collapses — starting pitchers got hurt and everything unraveled — but we’ll let long-suffering New Englanders suffer long with theirs.
As for the local nine: Wren did his job. He built a good-looking team. He landed Michael Bourn in July and fleshed out his roster with Matt Diaz and Jack Wilson in August. (And what did the glove man Wilson do? Became the new Brooks Conrad by erring on a double-play grounder that became Philadelphia’s second run Wednesday night.) This should have been a playoff team, and for 5 1/2 months it was playoff-bound. Then it derailed itself.
Blame should attach itself to Fredi Gonzalez, but not the sort that has been tossed around. Jose Constanza would not have saved the season. (He’s a journeyman. Come on.) Starting Derek Lowe in Game No. 161 was a justifiable choice. (You’d start the rookie Julio Teheran instead? Come on.) This wasn’t so much about managing situations — every manager, even the learned La Russa, whiffs on a nightly basis — as in managing people.
I’m not a big fan of team meetings, but sometimes they’re necessary. Gonzalez had one after the Braves lost seven of nine early in the month, which might have been a day too late, and another after they lost Game No. 161 to fall into a tie with St. Louis. What Fredi said Tuesday night was appropriate — “I wouldn’t pick any other guys over you to go out and win a game” — but by then the panic was full-blown. Panic is why this season ended after 162 games.
Ninth inning, Game No. 162: The kid closer Craig Kimbrel is on to do as he has done 46 times in 53 tries — slam the door. He yields a leadoff single to Placido Polanco, strikes out Carlos Ruiz, walks the part-timer Ben Francisco. It’s clear the kid closer, who’s 23, is trying to hurl the ball through the backstop. (”I was overthrowing,” Kimbrel admitted.) Brian McCann walks to the mound.
Roger McDowell sits in the dugout.
Only after Kimbrel walks Jimmy Rollins to load the bases does the pitching coach emerge to speak to his kid pitcher. (Something similar happened in Monday’s game, when McDowell watched as the Phillies mustered four base runners and one run in the fourth inning before going to the mound to counsel the rookie Randall Delgado.) It’s entirely possible that a coaching visitation would have had no effect on Kimbrel, but why not try? Why didn’t Gonzalez say, “Roger, get out there,” one batter sooner?
I asked. This was Fredi’s response: “That’s here or there.”
But it isn’t. There are certain things managers can do to manage a game, and dispatching a pitching coach is one. The Braves’ dugout seemed to be a beat slow in this final series, this whole final month. Again, it might have made no difference. Again, why not try?
And then the hitting, or the lack thereof. Once the Phillies tied it, nearly every Brave wanted to be Kirk Gibson. Guys were overswinging as badly as Kimbrel had overthrown. The Phils were deploying pitchers who won’t work a postseason inning, and the Braves’ flailing made Justin DeFratus and David Herndon look like Mariano Rivera.
“We’ve been swinging really, really hard for a while,” said Chipper Jones, who had the best late-game swing — the deep drive that Michael Martinez hauled down in the 10th — of any Brave. And that, sad to say, was this team’s signature: Swing really hard in case it hit something.
Under hitting coach Terry Pendleton, the 2010 Braves led the National League in on-base percentage. Under Larry Parrish, the 2011 Braves were 14th of 16 teams. Parrish was hired as hitting coach despite never having been a big-league hitting coach. Maybe the Braves would have hit .193 in September with runners in scoring position with Ty Cobb as their tutor. Then again, maybe they wouldn’t.
Yes, players ultimately must bear the blame for plays unmade, but this fine team was, in the end, both too laid-back in its oversight and too tightly wrapped in its playing. I don’t think Fredi Gonzalez needs to be fired — he did, after all, lose his two best starting pitchers — but I do think he needs to be more assertive. He absolutely needs a new hitting coach, but …
No such luck. Fredi announced Thursday the coaching staff would return intact. Which makes you wonder about Fredi.
By Mark Bradley
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585 comments Add your comment
BROOKS CONRAD
September 30th, 2011
7:55 am
I TRIED TO GET FREDDI TO START ME , TOO WIN IT ALL.
mca
September 30th, 2011
8:05 am
Fire Fredi and anyone else who wants to be a pal to the players, leave the fans in the stands and get someone who wants to win, Fredi did not earn his money. When you look up and see Linebrink is the man between us and the heart of the Phillies lineup you have to wonder what is Fredi thinking to put himself in this situation. Sad to say but until we get an owner who wants to win vs a corporation who wants to make a good steady return on his investment we are doomed to be an average team. Ted Turner, where are you!!
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
8:28 am
I really do not see how you don’t hire a new hitting coach after the horrible offensive season we had.
Also I give Fredi one more year, if he cannot turn things around in 2012, we’ll have a new manager in 2013.
James
September 30th, 2011
8:31 am
So what constitutes a good manager? This team has lacked the passion for two decades under Bobby Cox and it was no different under his hand-picked successor. Freddie was a deer in headlights the last week of the season and it showed in the players. Sure Bobby was a good regular season manager, but lack the fire and baseball managerial intelligence to win and manage in the post-season. There must be another Kirk Gibson J. madden out there to instill confidence and fire into this club.
Edo River
September 30th, 2011
8:31 am
Mark, because of your self-apointed standard of reasonableness, I trust you. Therefore I agree with every thing you have said here. I hope your words hit home in the Br.aves hierarchy.
My beef has been the same since the ‘96 World Series. The Yankees were taught to be patient and the A’s were taught the same, and the Braves are taught, absolutely encouraged to, just look at Andruw’s stats, to swing at almost every pitch. As long as they are taught to or encouraged to do that, team will only be, Good Enough, but not a winner at the highest levels. As long as the fans support that, its ok.
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
8:32 am
It was pretty obvious during the month of September (and most of the year really) this team did not have what it takes to be a championship caliber team. If you watch the way teams like Philly and St Louis play, they take advantage of opportunities like “1st and 3rd with one out”, we when were the absolute worst in this situations.
AlanFalcon
September 30th, 2011
8:34 am
2012 intructions for Fredi G.
#1-Better management of starting rotation(push up inning count and sit those that don’t carry their load).
#2-Better management of the bull pen(spread the work load (YOU HAVE ACCORDING TO FRANK THE ARMS).
#3-Maybe talk to Frank and put together a package for a power hitting corner outfielder(YOU HAVE ACCORDING TO FRANK THE ARMS).
#4-Better use of your position players in the line up, don’t insert a player that is not getting the job done in favor of one with promise and yet no interest in those around him to help him improve because he has all of the answers.
#5-Better use of your baseball knowledge when it comes to 2012 spring training and getting the fundamentals in place to play small ball when the time is right, get the position players to work opposing pitchers and raise their pitch counts and get a better knowledge of their strengths as the game progresses. When it comes up in the game that calls need to be question and you go on the field to do so don’t just make a cameo appearence show you team that you will back them up even if you get thrown out of the game.
MORE TO COME BECAUSE YOU LEFT ALOT ON YOUR PLATE THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
8:35 am
Actually Edo, I don’t think it’s ok with the fan base, probably is a big reason why attendance isn’t what it was back in the 90’s. Now the fans just make excuses why they don’t go to the games instead of sucking it up and actually being there to support the team.
BaseballBuff
September 30th, 2011
8:46 am
@ Packer Ed How true it is. My guess is that we would now have three to five world championship banners at Turner Field if Steinbrenner had been the owner. He would have forgiven Bobby Cox one time, for the collapse against a vastly inferior Yankee team in the 1996 World Series. Cox would definitely have been fired after the loss in the 1997 NLCS against the wild-card Marlins, who finished 9 games behind the Braves in the Eastern Division.
Chris
September 30th, 2011
8:50 am
Calm down, Braves fans. We are going to be alright. Hindsight is 20/20, but we had to sign D Lowe and Kawakami to buy time for these young pitchers. All of our best players are very young. Name one playoff team that would be there if they lost their number 1 and 2 pitchers? You can’t. The Atlanta Braves are a very deep and talented up and down the organization, and will continue to get better.
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
8:54 am
Chris if the offense would have actually scored some decent runs this season, loosing Hanson and JJ would not had mattered as much. The “runs per game” in 2011 was the lowest it’s been since 1989.
BaseballBuff
September 30th, 2011
8:57 am
At least Kimbrel accepts responsibility and admits he choked, although he doesn’t use that exact word. He’s a rookie and can be forgiven for being tight in that situation. I expect him to have a fine career, barring injury. Maybe if a teammate or coach had walked to the mound to talk to him he would have done better. Maybe.
Jason Heyward's Gynecologist
September 30th, 2011
9:02 am
Terry Francona (Now Available) > Fredi Gonzalez
PROGRAMMING NOTE: My patient is scheduled to be filling in for Elisabeth Hasselbeck on “THE VIEW” during the first week of November.
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
9:02 am
Yeah I think Kimbrel having 5 days off before hand didn’t help matters either. He was obviously over throwing. And he did admit the pressure got to him. Still it goes back to the offense IMO.
BaseballBuff
September 30th, 2011
9:08 am
@Tumbledown@11:31am Your post is right-on and mirrors my sentiments exactly. The method by which the Braves choked this season is new, but the feeling Braves fans are left with is not new. Yet another Braves team performed below its capability at a time when it counted most. The choking is a sports psychology issue, an inner poison that the organization has refused to recognize is there. It will not be easy to fix, but getting rid of the dead wood would be a good start.
Larry
September 30th, 2011
9:16 am
Get Francona!
Call it like it is
September 30th, 2011
9:27 am
Speak with your wallet. I know people talk about being a fan no matter what, but the teams and or cities where you see this, either have a legacy to be proud of that merits such loyalty, or the cities have nothing else to be proud of or support. Atlanta/South has a proud college heritage, which for the most part fights to be #1 each year, therefore we are a college town. Our pro teams don’t have that same desire, yet they get paid the big money no matter what. So I say keep your money in your pocket and show these franchises you don’t get my money or support for poor service. If you get bad food, or service from a restaurant you don’t go back, it should be the same for these piss poor teams that Atlanta has.
Chris P. Bacon
September 30th, 2011
9:31 am
Fredi burned out his bullpen in Florida. He’s now burned out the bullpen arms here in Atlanta as well.
DAD
September 30th, 2011
9:34 am
Why wouldn’t you put Constanza in the lineup? Rather…why did he ever find himself out of it. JH didn’t do squat all year. I’m not sure how he suddenly won his job back. His struggles seemed to find there way into the field. Saw way to many throws up the line when there was a play at the plate.
Home of the Braves
September 30th, 2011
9:45 am
Anyone who questions why Fredi didn’t walk Pence doesn’t know a damn thing about baseball. The runner on 3rd was the go ahead run, NOT THE WINNING RUN. The Braves were at home, NOT ON THE ROAD. If you walk Pence then you put another runner in scoring position where a hit could score TWO runs and an extra base hit could score THREE runs. If the Braves were the road team then you could justify walking Pence because his run would mean nothing. But the Braves were the home team and loading the bases would accomplish nothing except setting up the Phillies for a potential big inning. Fredi did the right thing and there is no arguing this point.
Dee
September 30th, 2011
9:50 am
Lowe has to go. Too much money for sub-par pitching.
SuzieQ
September 30th, 2011
9:50 am
First of all “a lot” are two words not one.
Let’s face it. We lost 2 of our best pitchers. I can pitch better than Lowe did this week and I suck. Our hitters weren’t hitting and Craig Kimbrel pitched in panic mode and lost us our 3 – 1 lead. You cannot blame Freddy. However, we need to hit. We have some great hitters who quit hitting in September. Jason Heyward was just awful this year. And don’t forget about that ball he lost in the lights. Go Falcons – although they ain’t doing so great right now.
Ded Durner
September 30th, 2011
9:55 am
This is dumb. Everyone knows baseball managers at the big league level don’t do anything. They wear the uniform, fill out the lineup card and make pitching changes when necessary.
That’s it. They don’t really have any impact on specific plays in a game.
The Braves’ soul died in the 15th inning of their marathon playoff loss to the Astros five years ago.
Calling for a squeeze bunt every now and then can’t fix that.
Lazarus will not make a special appearance at any team meeting, no matter who calls it or when.
We knew Lowe starts getting tired and can’t keep the ball down by the end of the year. He did it in Boston. Last September was an aberration, probably due to the rest he got from his injury.
If J.J. and Tommy were healthy and McCann, Prado and Heyward were playing to their potential we would be getting ready to play Milwaukee right now. And Fredi would be a genius strategist.
You can’t fix a team with no heart. You just have to win in spite of it.
Double Zero Eight
September 30th, 2011
9:56 am
It has pretty much all been said.
The Braves need to bring back Mazzone
in some capacity, even if it only as a
consultant. There were too many injuries to
our pitchers, and some were probalby due to
mechanics. Mazzone excelled at that. He also
knew how to calm a pitcher down, and tell them
to throw strikes with the use of expletives if
necessary.
The RISP and inability for the hitters to make
adjustments speaks for itself. This is an
indictment of Parrish who many believed lacked
the credentials to be a hitting coach.
Fredi should know by now that being in charge means
making tough decisions and adjustments in a timely
manner. He is ultimately responsible for the results.
He most likely gets a free pass this year, but next
year his “feet should be held to the fire”.
cbgb
September 30th, 2011
9:57 am
It’s frustrating to experience another winner only to see it all collapse and then no resolve to do anything except take some time off and try it again next year. This is the big leagues and the Braves have taken a major step backward in their approach to proactive management. A major overhaul is indicated. Who pulls the switch?
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
9:58 am
Suzie actually the score was 3-1 when Kimbrel came in to pitch.
Constanza rolled his ankle was the reason he was removed from the line up. He DID make a few starts afterwards, but was never the same “spark plug” like he was when first called up.
Najeh Davenpoop
September 30th, 2011
9:58 am
Red Sox fire two-time World Champion Terry Francona. Braves retain the entire coaching staff.
That’s the difference between a team that is satisfied with being good and a team that wants to win the World Series.
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
10:00 am
I believe hitting below .200 in September with RISP would justify hiring a new hitting coach. Anyone know what our season avg was with RISP?
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
10:01 am
Yeah it certainly seems that is no panic from the higher ups to make any changes.
Najeh Davenpoop
September 30th, 2011
10:01 am
To be clear, I am not necessarily saying Fredi should be fired, but standing pat and acting like nothing is wrong and bringing back the entire coaching staff intact is foolish. At the very least Parrish should be gone.
Bobby Cox
September 30th, 2011
10:02 am
Miss me know?
Bobby Cox
September 30th, 2011
10:03 am
Miss me now?
Bobby Cox
September 30th, 2011
10:03 am
Sorry for the typo, I’m old.
smallmouth6
September 30th, 2011
10:06 am
Constanza was a GIFT that Fredi ignored. This “journeyman” might not have delivered us into the WS, but he would have helped the Braves avoide this historic collapse. How many one run games did the Braves lose in the 20 losses? Could not disagree with you more on your assessment of a .300 hitting speedster who got a break, took advantage of it, helped give fire to this team, and then then got shelved because he isn’t considered a Hank Aaron reincarnate.
mike
September 30th, 2011
10:07 am
God, I’m tired of all the second guessing and shoulda, coulda, woulda’s. Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20 and always will be. The Braves did not make the playoffs. So what? Quit obsessing over it get on with your lives. Jeeesh people, take a chill pill. You too, Bradley.
kme
September 30th, 2011
10:07 am
Mark…so easy to point the blame towards Larry Parrish, the hitting coach…noticing that his coaching has had little to no succes in the past. I watched you on TV the other night…and it seems fingers need to point here…and there. Most people: FIRE GONZALEZ, FIRE PARRISH…FIRE THIS, FIRE THAT…natural reactions to a team going south when they should still be in the playoffs. The point now? The season is over…what is really going to make the difference here. No apologies anymore…no sorry here…no more you did it! You did it..take the blame!
Real, concrete answers. You all seem to think that the coaching staff will be back and all will be doing exactly as they have been all of these years. Not necessarily the truth. The Braves Organization has the right to keep the members…their primary responsibilities? Those can be changed…without a blink.
Trades can be done, with sacrifices made.
You have to take a good, hard look at what actually happened, what should have happened…and what needs to be happen. I would not care if some of the members of this organization would be happy or not. you must, will and need to do what is best, for the Atlanta Braves, in order to get back to the 1990’s…when they were the best of best. It is going to take all of these off-season months…but get back to the drawing board and get some results!
NOW…MORE THAN EVER….
#1 NFC Seed
September 30th, 2011
10:09 am
How credible are these sports writers to critique anything: they said that we’d catch the Phillies only a few weeks ago.
Turtsnap
September 30th, 2011
10:09 am
It is interesting that ESPN is reporting Terry Francona will not be back as BoSox manager due to their September collapse, but Fredi announces his staff stays in tact? A tale of two cities and expectations I suppose. We expect to be mediocre!
Loosing Managar = Loosing Record
September 30th, 2011
10:10 am
Didnt I tell U all hiring a loosing managar was wrong?
Peter
September 30th, 2011
10:10 am
How is all liking that SS trade ? Escobar a distraction ? Perhaps he wanted to win more than the rest of the club ?
Obviously there is no Fire or team leader, and who was the last team leader……Justice ?
The over all hitting concept sucked…… a guy walks, then another guy walks, and the third guy in a row swings at the first pitch…..
The Braves forgets the pitcher is the one with the pressure on…. so they bail the pitcher out constantly…Thus the worst team in the majors at moving guys along on the base path.
And Hayward is NOT the answer in right field…..he cannot see the ball off the bat, and his arm is erratic as heck.
T
Joe Six Pack
September 30th, 2011
10:16 am
The Braves offensive issues did not just start happeneing this year and thus cannot solely be blamed on the new hitting coach.. For the past several years, the Braves bats go mysteriously quiet for long stretched at a time. However this has got to be fixed.
As for Kimbrel.. This stuff is going to happen to rookies. Although, overall he had a great season, he was put into the closer role too soon.
7, See ya.
September 30th, 2011
10:18 am
If Parrish, stays, I’ll walk with my wallet. Lots of other ways to be entertained. FG is a placeholder. I just hope we don’t become Pittsburgh or Houston before management figures that out.
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
10:18 am
People trip me out about Constanza. He just happened to be a hot streak when was first called it. Yes he is fast, but being fast does you nothing when you cannot get on base.
Whiskey Breath
September 30th, 2011
10:21 am
So Wren get’s a pass? Wasn’t he the same guy that boasted in the winter and spring we now had a
potent offense? Basically we banked on some young kids with pitching and hitting. Lack of maturity and experience kicked in August and September. Freddi did an outstanding job with what he had to work with. Youth. Shame on all of you that can’t figure this out. That was a team on a budget.
mike
September 30th, 2011
10:23 am
If a frog had wings he wouldn’t bump his a$$ every time he hopped.
Poorbrave
September 30th, 2011
10:30 am
Second class team keeps “loser” for Manager and Red Sox a first class team Fires Manager that won more world Championships than Cox. Because they intend to stay first class.
Braves will stay Losers!
Braves will remain loser with Fredi calling the shots.
For the Love of God ~ Please~~ Liberty~sell the Braves to someone who cares.
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
10:33 am
I actually thought the players we had to work with at the beginning of the season was good enough to get the job done. To say Fredi did an “outstanding job”, when we had a freaking 9 1/2 game lead in the WC, and let it get away from us, is a stretch IMO. Again I think it boils down to the offense and the inability to take advantage of scoring opportunities. Which seems like a coaching flaw IMO.
Big Man
September 30th, 2011
10:33 am
I’ve said all year that Fredi was not doing the best managing job. I never liked all of the lineup switching. He never seemed to get it.
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
10:36 am
And the fact that he doesn’t plan on hiring a new hitting coach, should throw up some major red flags IMO.
Billy
September 30th, 2011
10:37 am
Chris Snow, You trip me out with your love affair with Fredi and his Clowns. Its cool to be a loyal fan but man don’t you see the truth from BS. Its people like you thats happy just going along scare me.