Fire Fredi? No, but the Braves did some major mismanaging
Esteemed colleague Mike Luckovich offers this extremely flattering bit of imagery.
Midnight had come and gone, and Frank Wren stood in Bill Acree’s office just off the main clubhouse. (Acree is the Braves’ director of travel, and earlier he’d been triangulating the hoped-for trip to St. Louis and then to Milwaukee or Phoenix. Moot point now.) The general manager was staring at a TV above the door. Boston had just lost. Tampa Bay had just won.
“Coming into September,” Wren said, disbelief in his voice, “we [meaning the Red Sox and the Braves] had two of the four best records in baseball.”
Neither will be part of the sport’s eight-team tournament, and today the Braves’ one source of consolation is that the Sox choked even harder than they did. (Unbelievable that two of the three biggest September flops in the game’s century-long annals were concluded within moments of each other. The third happened in 1964 to the Pholdin’ Phils.) There were similarities in these contemporary collapses — starting pitchers got hurt and everything unraveled — but we’ll let long-suffering New Englanders suffer long with theirs.
As for the local nine: Wren did his job. He built a good-looking team. He landed Michael Bourn in July and fleshed out his roster with Matt Diaz and Jack Wilson in August. (And what did the glove man Wilson do? Became the new Brooks Conrad by erring on a double-play grounder that became Philadelphia’s second run Wednesday night.) This should have been a playoff team, and for 5 1/2 months it was playoff-bound. Then it derailed itself.
Blame should attach itself to Fredi Gonzalez, but not the sort that has been tossed around. Jose Constanza would not have saved the season. (He’s a journeyman. Come on.) Starting Derek Lowe in Game No. 161 was a justifiable choice. (You’d start the rookie Julio Teheran instead? Come on.) This wasn’t so much about managing situations — every manager, even the learned La Russa, whiffs on a nightly basis — as in managing people.
I’m not a big fan of team meetings, but sometimes they’re necessary. Gonzalez had one after the Braves lost seven of nine early in the month, which might have been a day too late, and another after they lost Game No. 161 to fall into a tie with St. Louis. What Fredi said Tuesday night was appropriate — “I wouldn’t pick any other guys over you to go out and win a game” — but by then the panic was full-blown. Panic is why this season ended after 162 games.
Ninth inning, Game No. 162: The kid closer Craig Kimbrel is on to do as he has done 46 times in 53 tries — slam the door. He yields a leadoff single to Placido Polanco, strikes out Carlos Ruiz, walks the part-timer Ben Francisco. It’s clear the kid closer, who’s 23, is trying to hurl the ball through the backstop. (”I was overthrowing,” Kimbrel admitted.) Brian McCann walks to the mound.
Roger McDowell sits in the dugout.
Only after Kimbrel walks Jimmy Rollins to load the bases does the pitching coach emerge to speak to his kid pitcher. (Something similar happened in Monday’s game, when McDowell watched as the Phillies mustered four base runners and one run in the fourth inning before going to the mound to counsel the rookie Randall Delgado.) It’s entirely possible that a coaching visitation would have had no effect on Kimbrel, but why not try? Why didn’t Gonzalez say, “Roger, get out there,” one batter sooner?
I asked. This was Fredi’s response: “That’s here or there.”
But it isn’t. There are certain things managers can do to manage a game, and dispatching a pitching coach is one. The Braves’ dugout seemed to be a beat slow in this final series, this whole final month. Again, it might have made no difference. Again, why not try?
And then the hitting, or the lack thereof. Once the Phillies tied it, nearly every Brave wanted to be Kirk Gibson. Guys were overswinging as badly as Kimbrel had overthrown. The Phils were deploying pitchers who won’t work a postseason inning, and the Braves’ flailing made Justin DeFratus and David Herndon look like Mariano Rivera.
“We’ve been swinging really, really hard for a while,” said Chipper Jones, who had the best late-game swing — the deep drive that Michael Martinez hauled down in the 10th — of any Brave. And that, sad to say, was this team’s signature: Swing really hard in case it hit something.
Under hitting coach Terry Pendleton, the 2010 Braves led the National League in on-base percentage. Under Larry Parrish, the 2011 Braves were 14th of 16 teams. Parrish was hired as hitting coach despite never having been a big-league hitting coach. Maybe the Braves would have hit .193 in September with runners in scoring position with Ty Cobb as their tutor. Then again, maybe they wouldn’t.
Yes, players ultimately must bear the blame for plays unmade, but this fine team was, in the end, both too laid-back in its oversight and too tightly wrapped in its playing. I don’t think Fredi Gonzalez needs to be fired — he did, after all, lose his two best starting pitchers — but I do think he needs to be more assertive. He absolutely needs a new hitting coach, but …
No such luck. Fredi announced Thursday the coaching staff would return intact. Which makes you wonder about Fredi.
By Mark Bradley
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585 comments Add your comment
Matt
September 29th, 2011
3:32 pm
ARE YOU SERIOUS THEY KEPT LARRY PARRISH OMG. NOW THAT IS HILARIOUS DOWN RIGHT SILLY. YOU GOT PEOPLE UNEMPLOYED AND THIS IDIOT KEEPS THIS GUY FOR NOT DOING HIS JOB. HOW PATHETIC THOUGHT THE BRAVES WERE A CLASSY ORGINIZATION.
Matt
September 29th, 2011
3:33 pm
ORGANIZATION
Curious George
September 29th, 2011
3:34 pm
Mark, did you really go on “Outside the Lines” and call those of us who are loyal Braves fans “sorry?”
How much more do you pay for YOUR Braves Full-Season Tickets than I pay for mine, Mark?
sleepy
September 29th, 2011
3:36 pm
I disagree. The entire coaching staff needs to be replaced.
Jerry Willard
September 29th, 2011
3:37 pm
Curious George,
He didn’t use the word “sorry” but he said that we were different than other fans (casual) and that it doesn’t bother us as much and that now we can all focus on the Falcons and watch them not win the SuperBowl..
Brother John
September 29th, 2011
3:40 pm
Fruiti Fredi will not bring anybody back if he is FIRED! Like right now. Like yesterday! This nonsense has to end. Whoever used the word “inbred” is dead right on this one! The culture has to change. Like now. Like yesterday. Fredi will never win anywhere, anytime. Get rid of the guy and hire someone who understands the game of baseball.
Gwinnett Fred
September 29th, 2011
3:40 pm
Folks seem to forget the old addage that a game in April carries the same weight as one in September.
That said, for a pitcher (LOWE) to amass 23.3% of his teams losses over the course of a season is totally ridiculous.
I’m just not sure if I hold that as much against him as I do Gonzalez for running his worthless butt out there every 5th day.
His (Lowe) “contribution” wasn’t just a September disaster either. When the Braves were red hot going 20-9 from July 26 to August 25 building their large Wild Card lead – Lowe was a pathetic 2-4.
For this to happen, I do blame Gonzalez. Forget “if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it” – just because the team wasn’t broke in August didn’t mean Lowe wasn’t!
Stumpknocker
September 29th, 2011
3:40 pm
Being tied down by Liberty Media, JS and Wren were unable to sign the needed RH power hitter……we instead end up with M Bourne . Until more money frees up or we get new ownership, it’s gonna be the same story.
BH
September 29th, 2011
3:41 pm
Too many to read so I may be repeating. The Braves players ultimately self destructed. I know a lot of people are calling for Fredi’s head. I have even seen some that have said that Bobby Cox would not have let this happen. These are always the same people complaining. These same people wanted Bobby Cox fired last year saying that he was too old and conservative. Whatever. Fredi is a good coach who’s team slumped at the wrong time. Earlier in the season, there were people singing his praises because of their record. If Leo Mazzone has faith in him, so do I. As for the hitting coach, he is temporary. If you haven’t picked up on the fact that Chipper will be the hitting coach after next season, you have not been paying attention.
FANtastic
September 29th, 2011
3:41 pm
I WOULD ABSOLUTELY HAVE STARTED TEHERAN IN LOWE’S PLACE FOR EVERY SEMPTEBER START! Sorry, I don’t normally use caps, but I wholeheartedly disagree with Mark’s “c’mon” statement about starting Lowe. Lowe did nothing all year. I think he had, what, 5 quality starts? A quality start isn’t even good, it just means you gave your team a chance. If he pitches a single game next year, I will boycott the Braves until Freddi is gone.
Fire Parrish!
September 29th, 2011
3:43 pm
Bradley……I agree not to fire Fredi…….but his hitting coach Larry Parrish must go……the Brave’s need someone to work with Heyward and the other young players(Pastornicky,etc) coming up and Parrish is not the answer!Roger McDowell did a good job with the young pitchers but they can’t be burned out by Sept like this year….Hopefully Medlen will be with the Braves all year and Vizcaino can get better with Varvarro and maybe Teheran in long relief waiting to step in if any starters falter….The Rotation should be:Hanson1,Hudson2,Beachy3,Minor4and Delgado5(yes Delgado belongs!)…..that means the Brave’s need to trade Jurrjens and force the Yankees whom they will trade with to take Lowe too for an outfield prospect incase Bourn leaves after next year.That is the only way I can see dumping Lowe is to give up Jurrjens too who will be due a raise soon anyway!Chipper,Chipper,Chipper……please retire before you handicap your team!…..either way Firing Larry Parrish should be their first move!
George Allen
September 29th, 2011
3:44 pm
I’m sorry, Fredi’s a Great Guy, but made poor decisions, in my opinion. Maybe I don’t understand some of the factors that went into his decision-making, but he goes against percentages more often than most, and lacks the fire and intensity that when appropriately expressed can fire a team up…even as flakey as Pinella was, he achieved remarkable results under pressure. Bobby believes in him, but how would he honestly assess Fredi’s performance and defend his decisions. Also, keeping his bench players sharp and regularly putting them in the line-up (even if others are on a hitting streak) to even out the workload.
Gwinnett Fred
September 29th, 2011
3:45 pm
I have always looked down on any columnist that TRIES to classify fans at any pro level – and Bradley just proved my point that they indeed should be looked down upon.
Until such time as you, Mr. Bradley, actually PAY to go to the games as opposed to BEING PAID – you and all your breatheren (most notably Schultz) simply have no right to say anything about us ticket-paying, parking-paying, concession stand-paying REAL fans.
So you think we as a group are “sorry” – well sir (using that term lightly), you are simply a journalistic FRAUD!
Poleesemenses
September 29th, 2011
3:46 pm
I think Ty Cobb would be 125 years old now but would still get it right for our hitters. Sort of a Mr. Burns in knickers.
I would rather........
September 29th, 2011
3:47 pm
I would rather Atlanta not even have a baseball team than to see a pathetic bunch of losers like this years Braves and it all starts out and points to the loser for a manager we have, Fredi has to go!!!!!!
Eric C.
September 29th, 2011
3:48 pm
Hmmm…from 1st in OBP to 14th, wow, didn’t realize it. You can blame the hitting coach, and I do wonder. But I guess the demise of Prado and Heyward really played a big role.
Poleesemenses
September 29th, 2011
3:48 pm
Are we going to continue status quo with this guy who hits 35 bye-byes but strikes out (not just gets out) almost 1 in every 3 at bats, many, many times with RISP?
Hot news about: braves : 11 News - Your Dose of Daily News at 11 o'clock
September 29th, 2011
3:48 pm
[...] Midnight had come and gone, and Frank Wren stood in Bill Acree’s office just off the main clubhouse. (Acree is the Braves’ director of travel, and earlier he’d been triangulating the hoped-for trip to St. Louis and then to Milwaukee or … read full article… [...]
Alex
September 29th, 2011
3:54 pm
I agree Mark. Also, I don’t think hiring/firing the hitting coach should be up to Fredi. Let’s hope Frank Wren steps in with a dose of sanity (and an axe).
A sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad day.
Pat McGroin
September 29th, 2011
3:55 pm
Prado’s “demise” as you call it is due to an injury that had him out and set him back. Heywards on the other hand just needs to get a clue at the plate and in the field!
Felix
September 29th, 2011
3:58 pm
You shouldn’t be surprised by the outcome. I’m not, I knew they would blow it. Now the Atlanta Braves are the laughing stock of the entire sports nation. A complete joke; the butt of jokes. I still can’t believe Frodo pitched that no account Lowe on Tuesday. Huddy pitched his guts out, but once again our impotent offense couldn’t “get it up” (hard to do that when you are scared to death).
J.S. needs to start with firing somebody over this calamity!! Wren or Frodo or both need to go. Next get rid of Parrish, McOut, Lowe, and Linderflunk.
Mike
September 29th, 2011
3:58 pm
First and second…nobody out…Chipper up. Uggla next. Bourne is thrown out trying to steal third. Uggla hits a 2-run dinger instead of a 3-run. Why…why…try to steal third with the boppers up and no one out.
I love speed, but that was stupid with a capital S. Was also the difference in the ballgame. Gotta be smart — and fast.
Tumbledown
September 29th, 2011
4:01 pm
The fans really need to come together and push for a change in leadership for the Braves. Fredi and the whole coaching staff need to go. Perhaps even Wren needs to be fired. Chipper needs to retire. If all these people remain, the same thing will happen again next year if the Braves happen to be involved in a playoff chase. The “leaders” will all have the deer-in-the headlights look as all they become paralyzed by their past failures. The younger Braves will sense this glazed look and panic, much like Kimbrel and others did at the end of this season.
Folks, change is needed unless you are happy with continual disappointment and frustration. Losing in the way the Braves have done only makes them the laughingstock of the league. The Braves’ failures of the past and this season will only further embolden the opposition to keep fighting as they must surely know the Braves will collapse at the end. The fans need to voice their incredible displeasure with the status quo so that maybe the Braves’ brass will start to listen. As a long-time fan, I am begging for drastic change. I cannot continue to invest my time and my heart in this seeking ship.
Gwinnett Fred
September 29th, 2011
4:02 pm
Lowe loses 17 games on a team losing 73, yet he just keeps running him out there.
I was listening to an interview with Gonzalez the other morning and damn near crashed the car when his “justification” for pitching Lowe Tuesday was that if they had someone in the bullpen that was better, they would start. HELLOOOOOO – Minor, Tehran, even Martinez would be a MASSIVE improvement over this bum.
They should have DL’ed him like last year for a cortisone shot that got him going for the stretch run instead of winning 33% of his starts.
Tumbledown
September 29th, 2011
4:03 pm
sinking ship
iTiSi
September 29th, 2011
4:04 pm
Wonder if anyone has reminded FG of those games back in July and August that he basically threw away resting regulars, sometimes two at a time. I kept saying then he would regret not treating each game like it was the last one. Came down to one game, didn’t it Mr. FG? These are major league ballplayers and they get paid big bucks to be on the field, every game unless injured. Check out the schedule, and you will see a losing record on the weekends(as of about 2 weeks ago) which is when he usually rested starters. FG would make a good Vice-President for Obama. Neither he not BO have the slightest idea what they are doing!
No Manager
September 29th, 2011
4:05 pm
No such luck. Fredi announced Thursday the coaching staff would return intact. Which makes you wonder about Fredi. Are you serious? What a piece of work he is. Guess he doesn’t really care about the Braves. Thats certainly the way it appears.
Turtsnap
September 29th, 2011
4:07 pm
Ah come on guys……. It is what it is…… Gotta tip your caps… and now my new favorite, that’s here or there…… Well we are here, drowning in misery, and the Cards are there, where we should’ve been!
ToeMeetsLeather
September 29th, 2011
4:08 pm
The Braves are a mid -level payroll team with nearly forty percent of payroll tied up in “washed up has-beens”(Chip & Lowe). Can’t believe they had a 8-1/2 game lead to begin with. They will be in the same position next year with both of these turkeys back to collect(steal) their 30 millon. My hard earned pay will not be part of it!
Phillies, Class of The NL
September 29th, 2011
4:09 pm
I honestly feel like the braves were expecting The Phillies to not play hard, and were shocked, and not ready when they did…the braves were expecting a freebie…and didnt get one.
DHD
September 29th, 2011
4:09 pm
Bull
Brother John
September 29th, 2011
4:12 pm
Fire Fredi for crying out loud. And all the Chipper haters, shut your yaps up. The guy is playing on one leg to help this team TRY and win a game! The guy is a gamer and a Hall Of Famer. Would be my pick to manage the team next year. Nobody has done so much — for so long — for the same team that drafted him — as one Larry Wayne Jones, Jr. — other than Hank Aaron. Yeah, that Hall Of Famer! That guy.
MitchC
September 29th, 2011
4:13 pm
I suspect that the “White Rat”. (Apt name, Rat) wont be so bold once his team takes on the Phillies in the NLDS. It should be a very good series, but, the Phillies ace pitching staff should make Albert and company look like little leaguers.
Cards will go home in the first round, Phillies will go to the LCS and beyond. They are on a mission this year after their disappointment of last post season.
superiorblogman
September 29th, 2011
4:14 pm
Fire Fredi? Because he is a hypocrite he lived by the sword now he must die by the sword.
The History teacher has created his own bad history and that’s all we Brave fans have to go off of when considering him. He preached history all year now look at his history.
No Manager
September 29th, 2011
4:15 pm
Seriously, I can not believe the “coaching staff will return in tact.” Who runs this dog and pony show anyway? That is one of the most absurd comments I have ever heard. We have all these “people” from Phillies and the cards laughing like hell right now because they really know how stupid our “leaders” are now.
Florida Guy
September 29th, 2011
4:16 pm
THE BRAVES NEED A HUMAN OWNER!!!!!!!!! They need someone with the checkbook who can go in a locker room or a coach’s office after a game and either heap praise or chew some butt. This corporate cable conglomerate, or whatever they are, from Colorado, or whatever state out west they sit in, is not going to go out and spend what’s needed to get what we need to win. Plain and simple. They don’t care about Atlanta, or the Braves; they care about profit margins and tax write-offs. Can anyone even name the CEO or board director??? I doubt any of the players can. This is the worst set up in baseball, and but for the talent of Shurholtz and Cox, this house of cards would have collapsed a long time ago, as it did this past September.
Mitchell
September 29th, 2011
4:19 pm
(And what did the glove man Wilson do? Became the new Brooks Conrad by erring on a double-play grounder that became Philadelphia’s second run Wednesday night.)
And you know what we’ll be saying next year? This guy became the new Jack Wilson.
If it’s not Brooks Conrad, it’s Jack Wilson. Next year, without a doubt, it will be somebody else.
But the true Brooks Conrad moment of 2011 was Chipper in Miami.
That sealed the deal.
Brooks is officially exonerated.
Mitchell
September 29th, 2011
4:21 pm
Phillies, Class of The NL
September 29th, 2011
4:09 pm
I honestly feel like the braves were expecting The Phillies to not play hard, and were shocked, and not ready when they did…the braves were expecting a freebie…and didnt get one.
I don’t think the Phillies know how not to play hard.
The Braves, on the hand, do.
Bill
September 29th, 2011
4:22 pm
I know that some of what I have to say will already have been posted, but here goes.
The Braves had multiple problems this year and I will try to spell some of them out to our fans. Don’t believe that I won’t keep pulling for the Braves because I will as I am a die hard Brave fan that now lives in Florida.
I have watched the Braves all year and see the following:
1- By losing two starting pitchers and two relievers this year it did have a bearing on how we played the game. But, no team or fan can say that was the major reason we lost out as the rookies that came in did as good of a job as could be expected. They could go 5 or 6 innings and if runs were not scored it was to no avail. The pitchers that were available probably figured out that if they didn’t pitch a shutout they were going to lose the game because of no run support. This put too much pressure on them to win the game without support.
2- As said before in the above post, the Braves can bring up, buy, trade for a top player for another team and within a month, he has lost his ability to hit. It seems to me that our management is telling our players to swing for the fence. We need to put a home run on the board. This is and should be totally wrong. A ball team should be attempting to get on base. You can’t win a ball game without getting people on base and the next hitters hitting singles or doubles to get them home. The home runs will come without trying to hit one out every time. Give me a team of players that can get on base and hit singles and I will give you a winning team.
3 In looking at the team at the plate, some of the players do not even see the ball coming in to the plate. Heyward was an excellant hitter when he came up last year but now most of the time when he is swinging, he is looking at the pitcher. You have to look at the ball, to the bat, or you have just wasted your time at the plate. I do blame the batting coach for this and he could see it too if he would only looking at the films.
4 Why would a Manager only go to the mound when he is pulling a pitcher. I have a deep respect for the Manager that will call time, go to the mound when a pitcher is in trouble to let him know that he can only do so much and calm him down. After all, isn’t he the one that is controlling the whole team and coaches. This trip is not disrespect to the pitching coach, but shows respect for your players and your responsibility to the team.
5- It is not the money pitchers that we didn’t buy or trade for that hurt us, (just look a the Tampa Rays) their payroll is only $41m and look what they did. It is run support.
I do disagree with some of the above post that Chipper needs to go, he is one of the most steady players we have. Yes he is getting hurt more now, but look at his avg.
I will agree that the batting coach needs to be observed and monitored for what he is telling the players about their hitting choices.
'NolesFan31014
September 29th, 2011
4:25 pm
Florida Guy, I wholeheartedly agree. Liberty Media doesn’t give a rat’s arse about what happens to this team so long as it stays within budget. The Braves need a hometown owner who will give the team the tools it needs to compete in today’s baseball world.
sfbllump
September 29th, 2011
4:26 pm
Fredi – In March you commented that Venters and Kimbrel could be co-closers. But as the season
progressed you stuck with Kimbrel. As it turned out in the 162 game, Venters was far better than Kimbrel. I’m suggesting you stick with your co-closer idea in the 2012 season. Thanks for a hard
fought season and good luck in 2012
extremus
September 29th, 2011
4:30 pm
Something good DID come out of all this: Liberty Media’s tax write-off for owning the Braves just claimed its last season. Bring on a new HUMAN, LOCAL ownership that cares about winning. Hey, I don’t care if Arthur Blank sits in the dugout (as he does on the Falcons’ sideline) if he cares enough to help the Braves win.
William
September 29th, 2011
4:31 pm
IT’S OCTOBER PEOPLE….This is College football season.
No Manager
September 29th, 2011
4:33 pm
Ok folks, get the anger and disappointment out of your systems cause nothing is going to change according to the all knowing MB. But me, I can’t read this drivel anymore. Makes me sick how sorry that fredi and the rest of the coaching staff is. But it is going to be allowed for another year. Shameful/
Stuart
September 29th, 2011
4:35 pm
I gave up two weeks ago. I have rooted for this team for almost 40 years through the up and down times. Unfortunately, I was extremely at this club because it was capable of playing this weekend. I will grant you that there were some key injuries but the worst thing I have heard over the years is the batters have never seen the hitters. The late Ernie Johnson Sr. used to say that baseball had its own spy system. Somebody has seen someone somewhere sometime. In other words, most players have seen the mound opponent. Maybe there needs to be changes in the scouting department since the Braves seem to suck against pitchers who are on a club that will not see the postseason. I expect that Conrad, Hinske, Linebrink, Constanza, Sherill to definitely be elsewhere. Gonzlaez is expected to be a free agent so there will probably be an opening at short. I would move Lowe to the pen or trade him. As for those who blamed Terry Pendleton for past hitting woes, I bet you feel dumb now. I will root for this team next year but they need to make some changes and go for the throat early.
MR
September 29th, 2011
4:35 pm
Good article Mark, Fredi indeed managed like the green manager he is, but who hired him? It seemed like Bobby Cox treked down from the holy mountain to deliver the order of who should be the next manager to Wren, but it was Wren’s decision to hire a green manager. It was Wren’s decision to only go after Bourn when we shold have never allowed Philly to take Pence when we held the cards at the trading deadline. Pence’s bat in the soft weak Braves lineup would have won six games alone, not to mention take some pressure off our staff. This loser attitude the Braves have perfected since corprate ownership took over in the 90s is Frank Wren’s comfort zone. I say we move him away from this comfort zone and into the unemployment line.
Florida Guy
September 29th, 2011
4:36 pm
@NolesFan31014____couldn’t have said it better!!!!! Good luck at Wake on the 8th!!!!
dean
September 29th, 2011
4:38 pm
Ok. So Fredi says he’s bringing all of his coaches back next year. Has Fredi been told HE’S coming back?
Curious George
September 29th, 2011
4:38 pm
WIth San Diego and Kansas City already firing their hitting coaches today, the first day after the end of the regular season, why is it taking so long for Atlanta to fire its hitting coach?
extremus
September 29th, 2011
4:41 pm
Guess we should’ve known something wasn’t quite right about this team about the time they all started hugging in celebration after a win/home run. There’s not exactly a place for that in baseball, which is deemed by most to be a man’s sport on the field.