Fire Fredi? No, but the Braves did some major mismanaging
Esteemed colleague Mike Luckovich offers this extremely flattering bit of imagery.
Midnight had come and gone, and Frank Wren stood in Bill Acree’s office just off the main clubhouse. (Acree is the Braves’ director of travel, and earlier he’d been triangulating the hoped-for trip to St. Louis and then to Milwaukee or Phoenix. Moot point now.) The general manager was staring at a TV above the door. Boston had just lost. Tampa Bay had just won.
“Coming into September,” Wren said, disbelief in his voice, “we [meaning the Red Sox and the Braves] had two of the four best records in baseball.”
Neither will be part of the sport’s eight-team tournament, and today the Braves’ one source of consolation is that the Sox choked even harder than they did. (Unbelievable that two of the three biggest September flops in the game’s century-long annals were concluded within moments of each other. The third happened in 1964 to the Pholdin’ Phils.) There were similarities in these contemporary collapses — starting pitchers got hurt and everything unraveled — but we’ll let long-suffering New Englanders suffer long with theirs.
As for the local nine: Wren did his job. He built a good-looking team. He landed Michael Bourn in July and fleshed out his roster with Matt Diaz and Jack Wilson in August. (And what did the glove man Wilson do? Became the new Brooks Conrad by erring on a double-play grounder that became Philadelphia’s second run Wednesday night.) This should have been a playoff team, and for 5 1/2 months it was playoff-bound. Then it derailed itself.
Blame should attach itself to Fredi Gonzalez, but not the sort that has been tossed around. Jose Constanza would not have saved the season. (He’s a journeyman. Come on.) Starting Derek Lowe in Game No. 161 was a justifiable choice. (You’d start the rookie Julio Teheran instead? Come on.) This wasn’t so much about managing situations — every manager, even the learned La Russa, whiffs on a nightly basis — as in managing people.
I’m not a big fan of team meetings, but sometimes they’re necessary. Gonzalez had one after the Braves lost seven of nine early in the month, which might have been a day too late, and another after they lost Game No. 161 to fall into a tie with St. Louis. What Fredi said Tuesday night was appropriate — “I wouldn’t pick any other guys over you to go out and win a game” — but by then the panic was full-blown. Panic is why this season ended after 162 games.
Ninth inning, Game No. 162: The kid closer Craig Kimbrel is on to do as he has done 46 times in 53 tries — slam the door. He yields a leadoff single to Placido Polanco, strikes out Carlos Ruiz, walks the part-timer Ben Francisco. It’s clear the kid closer, who’s 23, is trying to hurl the ball through the backstop. (”I was overthrowing,” Kimbrel admitted.) Brian McCann walks to the mound.
Roger McDowell sits in the dugout.
Only after Kimbrel walks Jimmy Rollins to load the bases does the pitching coach emerge to speak to his kid pitcher. (Something similar happened in Monday’s game, when McDowell watched as the Phillies mustered four base runners and one run in the fourth inning before going to the mound to counsel the rookie Randall Delgado.) It’s entirely possible that a coaching visitation would have had no effect on Kimbrel, but why not try? Why didn’t Gonzalez say, “Roger, get out there,” one batter sooner?
I asked. This was Fredi’s response: “That’s here or there.”
But it isn’t. There are certain things managers can do to manage a game, and dispatching a pitching coach is one. The Braves’ dugout seemed to be a beat slow in this final series, this whole final month. Again, it might have made no difference. Again, why not try?
And then the hitting, or the lack thereof. Once the Phillies tied it, nearly every Brave wanted to be Kirk Gibson. Guys were overswinging as badly as Kimbrel had overthrown. The Phils were deploying pitchers who won’t work a postseason inning, and the Braves’ flailing made Justin DeFratus and David Herndon look like Mariano Rivera.
“We’ve been swinging really, really hard for a while,” said Chipper Jones, who had the best late-game swing — the deep drive that Michael Martinez hauled down in the 10th — of any Brave. And that, sad to say, was this team’s signature: Swing really hard in case it hit something.
Under hitting coach Terry Pendleton, the 2010 Braves led the National League in on-base percentage. Under Larry Parrish, the 2011 Braves were 14th of 16 teams. Parrish was hired as hitting coach despite never having been a big-league hitting coach. Maybe the Braves would have hit .193 in September with runners in scoring position with Ty Cobb as their tutor. Then again, maybe they wouldn’t.
Yes, players ultimately must bear the blame for plays unmade, but this fine team was, in the end, both too laid-back in its oversight and too tightly wrapped in its playing. I don’t think Fredi Gonzalez needs to be fired — he did, after all, lose his two best starting pitchers — but I do think he needs to be more assertive. He absolutely needs a new hitting coach, but …
No such luck. Fredi announced Thursday the coaching staff would return intact. Which makes you wonder about Fredi.
By Mark Bradley
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585 comments Add your comment
Tim from Bama
September 30th, 2011
10:40 am
I have not thought this should be one and done for Fredi, until I read your last sentence and he plans to return the staff in tact. With that one sentence, my mind changed. He is just not the one to take the Braves any further.
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
10:41 am
Exactly where did you see me post that I was “happy with the way things are”. Because I’m certainly NOT!
Terrence Randall Pendleton III
September 30th, 2011
10:45 am
Miss me yet?
Seriously, though, I am amazed at what an incredible lack of insight and understanding of the game so many fans seem to possess.
Coaches in the MLB don’t do anything. It is all about players, opportunities and luck.
Bobby Cox always said if they needed to be coached they wouldn’t have been brought up to the “Bigs.” You trust your GM to get you the right guys. Then you fill out the lineup card and watch what happens.
If you wanna cut some dead wood, tell Chipper to go rustle steer next year and get a spark over at the hot corner.
Presumably Boston’s entire coaching staff will be gone with Francona. His hitting coach will do well as a manager somewhere – for less money than Francona. You always see Red Sox batters coming to the plate with a plan: being aggressive or patient depending on the situation. The Braves, not so much.
But the Braves are not looking for a new manager, so it’s kind of pointless.
I’m okay with Chipper staying on as a player/hitting coach, but we need a new everyday third basemen. Preferably a switch hitting career .300 guy with power. Where do we find that?
Tucker
September 30th, 2011
10:47 am
Fredi said all the Braves needed was one broken bat single to turn things around, and yet, he never sent someone to the batter’s box with a broken bat.
Dee
September 30th, 2011
10:50 am
Now, who in their right mind is going to take baseball advice from a person who misuses the word “loosing”, for “losing”?
Get lost, loser.
O-me
September 30th, 2011
10:50 am
Pendleton lll,,Wren will get one off waivers are when another team release one. CHEAP!
Daryl
September 30th, 2011
10:51 am
The hitting coach is a joke and the ability to play ABC ball is embarrassing. I have been watching braves since the sixties and I feel their inability to manufacture runs kept us from winning more than 1 world series. Only concern with Freddi is he seems to stubborn to learn.
George T
September 30th, 2011
10:51 am
In my view Fredi is a mild mannered guy who needs to be accempted and loved by everyone. Sadly this is not what makes a successful major league manager. How many times did Fredi protest a call and really get upset (or appear to be)? From how many games was Fredi ejected? While getting kicked out a game really does not affect the call, managers for years have used this tactic as a tool to motivate players. Should professsion baseball players require this knid of motivation? Certainly not, but remember this is an emotional game and sometimes these moves need to happen. Summarily, Fredi is a good guy and would do well in the minors where he can work with young ball players and nuture them along. He should not, however, be the leader of a major league club……Good luck to the team in 2012 but I am afraid without a change in on field management that will result in a culture change in the clubhouse the Braves are doomed to further failure.
Billy
September 30th, 2011
10:55 am
Chris Snow, Sorry man wrong name.
Billie
September 30th, 2011
10:56 am
I say fire Fredi. All he does is sit and watch the games. He is no Bobby cox and never will be. Bobby was always up and cheering his players on. I have been a Braves fan for many years and never did understand why Terry Pendleton was not the hitting coach this year. Sad and almost unforgiveable.
Fire Fredi
September 30th, 2011
10:57 am
Braves keeping Fredi on Bobby’s recommendation. Lol
Jay Dubu
September 30th, 2011
11:00 am
The Braves have scouts, that provided them with information on Philly. They needed to have a plan of attack for each of the starting pitchers as well as bullpen pitchers that they might face.
That’s where the hitting coach really earns his keep. Fredi, the manager, should be aware of the strategies, and has to sign off on them. So Fredi, and the rest of the coaching staff is responsible for preparing and motivating the team to play to it’s potential.
That did not happen, and Fredi is going to keep the coaching staff as it is?
What things are the Braves planning to change to improve this team, and/or to prevent a similar result in the future?
All those division winners with Cox, and 1 championship. The Braves continue to do less with more than many of teams in the league (talent, not money, but when Ted was there, they had money, and still made bad moves. They could have won 3 -4 titles, if they had a closer, but they added guys that were over the hill, or unreliable).
It’s difficult as a fan to continue to pour your money into supporting this organization (jerseys, tees, tickets, etc), when you see them not willing to make adjustments to address their shortcomings.
BaseballBuff
September 30th, 2011
11:00 am
smallmouth6@10:06am Well said about Constanza and calling it like it is.
Chris Snow @10:18am, are you kidding me? Okay, Constanza was slumping, but he was still hitting over .300 when he was benched and placed out of sight for the rest of the season. He had speed. He had presence on the playing field. When he and Bourn were both in the game, they put tremendous pressure on the defense. He deserved better than what he got. It flat-out didn’t make sense. I believe Fredi was ordered to play Heyward for political reasons, probably because Heyward has become somewhat of a marquis name and is a draw.
jb
September 30th, 2011
11:03 am
All the talk on Constanza. All I got to say is when he was playing we were winning and then, and then, along came Heyward and we stop winning.
Our great Mgr couldn’t see that.
Jay Dubu
September 30th, 2011
11:04 am
So, what was the teams rationale and/or reason for removing Pendleton as the hitting coach after last season, when he helped the team achieve better results than this season, but they’re keeping Parrish?
They have essentially the same hitters as last season, and they faced essentially the same pitchers as last season, so why were the results so drastically different?
P Rose
September 30th, 2011
11:05 am
THE BRAVES NEED TO DUMP:
the chop
the cap shuffle
the tool race
the 7th inning hoedown
the loudmouth stadium announcer (HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BASEBALL FANS!!)
the 100-decible sound system
the Crazy Train song (Aye, aye, aye…)
the high ticket prices
the high parking prices
the high beer prices
the terrible food
the Sunday red jerseys
the players’ Mohawks
the wave
the 2010 Wild Card pennant on the wall
Scott Linebrink
Derek Lowe
Chipper Jones
pretty much everything else except the following:
WHAT THE BRAVES NEED TO KEEP:
Medlen
Delgado
Teheran
Minor
Beachy
Kimbrell
Venters
O’Flaherty
Freeman
Bourn
Constanza
Jim Powell
the Tomahawk Team dancing girls
the organ player
the grounds crew
the bat boys
that’s about it
P Rose
September 30th, 2011
11:06 am
Forgot to mention one other thing they should dump: the hugging.
jb
September 30th, 2011
11:08 am
What about the dirt throwing
Peter
September 30th, 2011
11:10 am
As for Fredi, hindsight is 20/20. He made decisions that us fans may disagree with, but the last time I checked, the players on the field actually throw, catch and hit the ball. A couple of more games won and Fredi’s brilliant. GO BRAVES!!!!
jb
September 30th, 2011
11:11 am
Baseball buff@ 11:oo~~so very true.
Fire Fredi ASP!
P Rose
September 30th, 2011
11:12 am
No, let’s keep the dirt throwing.
gotta
September 30th, 2011
11:12 am
I know we all kinda wanted Fredi to replace Bobby. In fact we all thought that was the right move because he was from the Bobby Cox tree. But if u think about it,Fredi didn’t really do much with the Fish. Didn’t they have a somewhat horrendous collapse down in Florida as well in his years while coaching there? I mean we all blame the Marlins front office, which is easy to do, but Gonzalez didn’t do anything with the factory of MLB talent that is the Florida Marlins.
Aint no COX to blame anymore and
NOT hitting is proof enough,
but MR. GONZALEZ …..this is on YOU!
jb
September 30th, 2011
11:13 am
Thats just your opinion Peter. I did see alot of hitting on the field ole boy.
jb
September 30th, 2011
11:13 am
didnt sp
coach k
September 30th, 2011
11:14 am
same ole same ole: great team on paper no desire or heart and bad managing, this record has been going on since 96. no agressive play, no doing the little things, everyone just waiting on someone to bail them out, mac and feeman and heyward died at the end don’t blame pitch if we could hit we should have ran away with this division let alone the wild card!!! same lame mangaging and no accoutability, the only guy that looks like he has an idea at the plate is chipper everyone is clueless attaboy to Tumbledown at 11:31 post sooooootired of this type of performance
Kentavo
September 30th, 2011
11:16 am
I agree with the sentiment that there needs to be a culture change.
jb
September 30th, 2011
11:17 am
Dirt in your eyes could keep a player out of a game. Don’t u think Mr. Rose
goutman
September 30th, 2011
11:18 am
It’s all on Gonzalez. He’s in charge and they had an epic fold on his watch. In those last 2 games, Joe Maddon sends out his pitching coach and comes out personally to encourage young pitchers; Fredi had this spacy look as if his mind was disengaged. He’s too passive-aggressive for this bunch of players…get rid of him.
P Rose
September 30th, 2011
11:20 am
The “Fox Track” strike zone thing on TV showed the Phillies’ pitchers consistently getting the strike call on pitches that were clearly outside the box, low and outside. Bobby would have bent the umpire’s ear all night for that, but Fredi said nothing. Similarly, on the bad call when Bourn was called out at third, Bobby would have given the umpire hell for that. Fredi did nothing. The players knew Bobby had their back, and that made a difference.
Freddi Gonzalezz
September 30th, 2011
11:22 am
….now everybodys a manager….
…I thought we lost because the fans didnt sellout the stadium?
P Rose
September 30th, 2011
11:22 am
I guessed you were speaking figuratively, not literally, of throwing dirt, Mr. jb.
O-me
September 30th, 2011
11:23 am
gotta..Cox still making recommendations with JS and Wren
If they fire Fredi it would make Fla look right for firing him. Cox made Fla mad saying they should not have fired him etc. Braves don’t wish to make Fish look right by doing the same.
Freddi Gonzalezz
September 30th, 2011
11:23 am
….and this ain’t Little League. Players know what to do.
(we probably would’ve won had the stadium been soldout)
b
September 30th, 2011
11:24 am
I want to clear this misinformation on Constanza once and for all.
Constanza did NOT go into slump.
He never got to start more than two games in a row.
Fredi sat him when he went two games in a row without a hit.
And he never consistently got to play again.
They should have left him in the lineup. He was even
more productive than Bourn in August.
IMO, not playing him regularly after Aug. cost the playoff birth.
Terrence Randall Pendleton III
September 30th, 2011
11:24 am
P Rose:
That is the most intelligent comment I have ever seen posted on any AJC.com article. Ever. Period.
Well done.
Coach (2011 Fredi G. a go!)
September 30th, 2011
11:24 am
Yea, Fredi Failed and here is how……..
Day one, Fredi went with two rookies in Brandon Hicks and Matt Young, then proceeded to let them rot on the bench before sending both back to the minors.
He went with Derek Lowe as the Braves opening day starter, nothing could have stung more for Tim Hudson. The ensuing season proved Fredi wrong in his assessment of his pitching staff.
Fredi’s decision to bat Prado at the top of the Braves order was a disaster right from the word go. Prado did hit .283 with an OBP of .323 but he also stole one base, scored an anemic 28 runs in 47 games, and got caught four times before Fredi finally wised up while realizing foot speed was more important.
The bullpen. Fredi burned’em and I’m talking toast. The man simply overworked Kimbrel, Venters and O’Flaherty. They were all gassed at the end…all three.
But what has got me steaming mad, ticked off and ready to throw Fredi under the bus is one single game. The one where Fredi showed such poor judgement that he arguably blew their whole season.
I’m talking about 19 inning affair on July 26th. I watched the whole damn thing. I saw McCann come up lame in the third inning with the sore oblique again. I watched Fredi keep Mac in the game into the tenth inning when McCann really did severely injure his oblique in extra innings. Mac went on the DL and never recovered his swing afterward. All because our manager didn’t have the common sense to bring Ross into the game knowing his catcher was already hurting.
As for Fredi’s decision to keep marching Derek Lowe out to the mound game after game…..the results speak for themselves. Only suicide could have been more effective at tanking the entire season.
Finally, yanking Chipper out of the three hole was robbing Peter to pay Paul. The switch went nowhere fast and really irked Chipper in the process. In the end Fredi showed impatience, indecision, poor judgement and really disappointed this fan beyond words.
Braves #17 Fan
September 30th, 2011
11:24 am
Shame on us fans for not showing up at Turner Field!!
jb
September 30th, 2011
11:26 am
Freddi@11:22 it will never sellout as long as you are there.
Braves #17 Fan
September 30th, 2011
11:26 am
Hey P. Rose: Should we bring in Gene Garber as our pitching coach?
P Rose
September 30th, 2011
11:26 am
I mentioned a company name in a post, and apparently it was automatically filtered or deleted. I was only mentioning the strike zone on TV as it was shown on the “_____ Track” box thing. You can fill in the blank yourself (hint: it’s a red, wild, dog-like animal that upper-class Englishmen like to hunt). You can say anything you want on these blogs as long as you never, ever mention a powerful corporation. Remember, Big Brother is watching you.
Short term memory
September 30th, 2011
11:26 am
It is a little bit funny how so many people were calling for TP to be fired last year, and now they act like they never did that and they want him back as hitting coach.
P Rose
September 30th, 2011
11:28 am
Thank you, Terrence Randall Pendleton III.
P Rose
September 30th, 2011
11:28 am
That’s actually not a bad idea at that, Braves #17 Fan.
Smells Like Burnt Toast
September 30th, 2011
11:28 am
So many gurus saying Fredi burned the bullpen through overuse. Funny I don’t remember you warning him about that in August.
Jack McKeon
September 30th, 2011
11:30 am
The judge said I can’t have contact with my grandson, so if you will have me, I would love to coach your team next year.
Freddi Gonzalezz
September 30th, 2011
11:30 am
…..and at the end…..and with all of our injuries…..we lost to the best team in baseball.
The Philthadelpia Phillies…aka the 2011 World Series Champions.
How could we get swept by crappy pitchers like Lee, Oswalt and Hamels(in long relief). Those guys stink. (I really think we were World Series bound until the fans didn’t sellout Turner Field).
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
11:31 am
Freddi Gonzalezz
September 30th, 2011
11:22 am
….now everybodys a manager….
…I thought we lost because the fans didnt sellout the stadium?
And if the Braves continue to they way they have been, I promise the attendance will NOT change, maybe even get worse.
Chris Snow
September 30th, 2011
11:32 am
the* not they
Big Brother
September 30th, 2011
11:32 am
Hey! I saw that!
cowdogit
September 30th, 2011
11:32 am
If the braves could figure a way to use the thirty million being paid to Chipper and Derrick and sign six or seven players in the three to five million dollar range. This way they have more options when a player is slumping or injured. Frank Wren needs to try this system and go ahead and win a WORLD SERIES!!!