At least the Braves have experience in win-or-blow-it games
Here's how it turned out last season. For reference purposes. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
Looking on the bright side — and even finding a bright side takes concentrated effort — there’s this: If any team in the history of baseball knows how to win the 162nd game of a season behind Tim Hudson after losing two to the Phillies and entering Game No. 162 tied for the wild card after blowing a massive lead … well, the Braves are that team. Because they did it last season.
And that’s it. That’s all I’ve got. Rating the collapses, this season’s is much worse than last’s. The 2010 Braves ran out of everyday players; the 2011 Braves have run low on starting pitchers. Last year’s team had a hard time scoring for a pretty good reason; this team has a hard time scoring for no good reason.
Last year’s Braves lost a seven-game division lead because the Phillies got hot and got healthy (and got Roy Oswalt) and blew past them. This team has lost an 8 1/2-game wild-card lead to St. Louis, which was hot but is only 3-3 over the past six days and needed 23 players, eight of them pitchers, to override a five-run deficit against the 100-loss Astros on Tuesday.
So: Here we go again. One more game on the schedule, one game to assure these Braves of playing at least one more game after this.
Loading ...About the Cardinals: You’d have to think Chris Carpenter will win at Minute Maid Park tonight, but you’d have thought Carpenter would have beaten the Cubs on Friday and he could not. Carpenter was pulled after 93 pitchers for a pinch-hitter in a 1-1 game; the Cardinals yielded Alfonso Soriano’s winning three-run homer the next inning.
That Redbird loss pushed the Braves’ lead back to three games with five to play. They haven’t held it. Now they could face elimination if they don’t win tonight, but the way this stumbling chase is going they might lose to Philly and still get to play in St. Louis on Thursday. Indeed, for an hour or so Tuesday night it appeared the Braves — who trailed 7-0 — might take the wild card without actually winning another game. But the Cardinals rallied from 5-0 and 6-5 deficits, and here we are. Again.
Tim Hudson in the 162nd game. A team could do worse. For example: Derek Lowe in the 161st game — that was worse.
By Mark Bradley
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355 comments Add your comment
DetroitBraves
September 28th, 2011
1:05 pm
@highlands, I think they deserve it because games in April-August do count (though it doesn’t feel like that now). If the Cardinals don’t make it then they should have won more games in those months. But I don’t like their chances to advance if they do get there. Without Hanson and Jurrjens they can’t match up with any other playoff team and they never could hit.
Fols
September 28th, 2011
1:06 pm
You guys are too hard on Lowe. He sucked all season long and last night all he did was live up to expectations which is not easy to do. Now our skipper for example….is it not his job to put the best pieces in place to win a ball game of that magnitude? The writing was on the wall, he just refused to read it. For the better half of this season our skipper just road the wave, said pleasant things about everybody, laddy da, laddy do.
They probably just put a good swing on the ball!
Brave New World
September 28th, 2011
1:08 pm
Phils fan,
This is what you wrote.., anyhting is possible. but redsox aint beating texas
You contradict yourself
You amuse me ……
Skeezix
September 28th, 2011
1:08 pm
Continuing with the previous NASCAR analogy……..on the freeway to the playoffs, this September has been won big wreck.
To go with a Halloween analogy—September has been a horror show.
Being the diehard fan I am, I will watch tonight. But I really don’t think they will win, UNLESS, the Phils use their weaker pitchers and hitters—even then this bunch will struggle. Can’t beat the Nats, Marlins, Mutts, etc.—then they will probably struggle against even the Phillies second string.
DetroitBraves
September 28th, 2011
1:08 pm
@Brave New World, Arizona and Milwaukee have lower payrolls than Atlanta. In the AL, the Rays have a lower payroll and Texas is virtually the same. It is in management’s interest if we believe the Braves are at a distinct disadvantage because of payroll but that just simply isn’t true.
Booyah
September 28th, 2011
1:09 pm
Put one in Vizcaino’s earhole on the first pitch tonite and clear the benches. Get the blood pumping and show some life!!!
Phils fan
September 28th, 2011
1:10 pm
i’d rather see cards in over the braves. you never want to see a division rival in october. they know you the best, and many of the games were very close. mlb doesn’t allow div foes to meet in the nlds for a reason.
Phils fan
September 28th, 2011
1:11 pm
no i wasn’t , i’m being realistic based on what i’ve seen so far.
Felix
September 28th, 2011
1:11 pm
The Braves are dead and rigor mortis set in about 3 weeks ago. The Cards are the better team and deserve the playoff spot.
Brave New World
September 28th, 2011
1:12 pm
DetroidBraves, I never said lower payroll is the reason for braves performance.., What I said was Frank Wren did what he can do the best as a GM. Imagine if he traded the pitching talent we had for some rental hitter who would also go into slump with the braves hitters then all of us would call him an idiot. Similarly there is very little that a manager does in baseball.. A great manager can change the outcome of maybe 4 or 5 games and everybody else pretty much do the same.., Its the team that has to perform.. Having said that i believe both the GM and Manager will be back..
Phils fan
September 28th, 2011
1:13 pm
go ahead shane is slumping. we’ll just put john mayberry jr in there.
Skeezix
September 28th, 2011
1:14 pm
Great! Another one of my post into the Bradley/ajc blackhole–there forever– never to see the light of day again.
DetroitBraves
September 28th, 2011
1:15 pm
Why doesn’t MLB let division opponents meet in the first round? Seems like the team with the best record should face the team with the 4th best record no matter the division.
Phils fan
September 28th, 2011
1:18 pm
see earlier post
DetroitBraves
September 28th, 2011
1:20 pm
@Brave New World, ok. I agree with you that managers get both too much credit and blame for how a team performs. I don’t know if the number of games for which they are responsible is 4 or 5 or whatever, but in a tight race like this almost no number is negligible. Personally, I don’t think Gonzalez is a good manager. If you also believe that then you also have to believe that a better manager would have them in the playoffs this year.
There are people out here that blame the Braves troubles on their payroll and I just don’t buy it.
But I definitely agree with you that both Wren and Gonzalez will be back next year. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that.
Phils fan
September 28th, 2011
1:23 pm
they also do it for ratings. how boring would a braves/phils or yanks/rays nlds/alds would be.
kybodawg
September 28th, 2011
1:24 pm
the ghost of bobby cox past
bravesfanforever
September 28th, 2011
1:26 pm
EVERYONE PLEASE START DEMANDING THAT LOWE BE PUT IN THE BULLPEN NEXT SEASON.
He seems to get hit hard after a few innings so his effectiveness would seem to be best for at least 2 innings. I don’t care what this guy is getting paid. This is about winning, not about putting players in positions according to salary. The Braves have far more effective starters than Lowe and besides why not use the slot to develop a younger player instead of a hasbeen who will no longer be a Brave after next season?
If enough people DEMAND that Lowe be “demoted” then it will happen.
The next best thing to happen would be to have this guy become permanently injured so the Braves collect insurance on him and the team can then use that money to get a better player!!
Skeezix
September 28th, 2011
1:26 pm
Some of the Braves problems stem all the way back to some of FW’s bone headed deals during his first year. Like Lowe for $15m per year and even thinking that Lowe was a #1 pitcher. Also, the K.K. disaster.
These two bad deals alone have handcuffed the organization in terms of money that could have been available to beef up the offense. Just look at all the jack those two are pulling out of the budget, and where is K.K.? And, we would actually have been better off this year if Lowe also in Mississippi—- and we had used one of the rookies in his place. If someone’s to be fired over this horror show we have had to watch, it should be Frank Wren.
Bill
September 28th, 2011
1:27 pm
I knew Lowe couldn’t win and any manager that started him in a crucial game should be fired. He should have been gone long ago.
Low
September 28th, 2011
1:32 pm
How low[e] can you go?
Brave New World
September 28th, 2011
1:35 pm
DetroitBraves,
I understand that you are disappointed with Fredi. Before calling him “NOT a Good Manager” we have to define the word “GOOD Manager”. As fans we only look at wins and loses determining if someone is good or bad., But i believe there are a ton of things that he does Off the field as a manager. Like making sure the players are happy and jelling well , no biases , and also leading healthy lives and getting proper attention when they go through ups and downs in their personal lives etc.., We dont know how good is Fredi with those..,
There are a ton of organizations out there who only rate the manager based on wins and losses but Braves are a classic organization, Terry McGuirk and co are top notch group of executives who know how to run the business. There are very few organizations like that..,
remember a couple of years at the beginning of the phillies season they lost some 7 or 8 games and charlie manuel was throwing his dirty laundry all over the media and making a buffoon of himself.., Braves will never accept that kinda crap from their manager.
No matter how many divisions or WCS Phillies win in the next few years , they will never be close to Braves as an organization.
I am proud to be a fan of such a classic organization like Braves.
skeptomania
September 28th, 2011
1:39 pm
Even if the braves by some miracle at this point get into the playoffs does anyone really believe they can get by Philly. Halladay, Lee, Oswalt or Hamels are all healthy and better than anyone we have and they all can pitch complete games. We have Hudson and some rookies and no hitters.
TomDawg
September 28th, 2011
1:40 pm
I wish that Bobby Cox would or could address the team before they go out and play tonight. Maybe that would give them a spark or something. They just do not look like they give a rodents hind quarters about winning. I know they are trying, maybe too hard and it is bumming them out so they just do not seem to care. One more game guys, just win 1 more and it matters not what the Cardinals do tonight, you will have at least earned a shot to play for a playoff spot.
nelson
September 28th, 2011
1:40 pm
tonight braves win , STl win , thursday : stl vs braves = braves win , I think that’s what will happen. I trust, even if we were to lose, friends, next year, Roger McDowell, parrish, chipper, and Lowe must go, get two pitchers elite and a power bat to help this offense even more and there is available in two players who raise a team, is a fielder and the other is Albert Pujols. So if in fact the braves want to win it all.
LEADING OFF: WHAT A FINISH FOR THE BASEBALL SEASON » RAYS, BRAVES, CBSSPORTSCOM, YALE, WIZARD, TUESDAY » DAILY NEWS
September 28th, 2011
1:41 pm
[...] night’s flop against Philadelphia, it has begun to feel like “Bull Durham” in reverse. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s Mark Bradley mined the situation for a bright spot and decided that at least the Braves have been here before, [...]
nelson
September 28th, 2011
1:41 pm
I think that’s what will happen. I trust, even if we were to lose, friends, next year, Roger McDowell, parrish, chipper, and Lowe must go, get two pitchers elite and a power bat to help this offense even more and there is available in two players who raise a team, is a fielder and the other is Albert Pujols. So if in fact the braves want to win it all.
Chris P. Bacon
September 28th, 2011
1:41 pm
Pastornickymania begins TONIGHT!
nelson
September 28th, 2011
1:44 pm
ahh and Liberty Media sold the Braves to an owner if he wants to win, there is Mark Cuban willing to have a baseball team and this man if he spent $ $ to see what happens today but I think both will win atlanta & stl today and tomorrow will meet in an extra game.
Peter
September 28th, 2011
1:49 pm
Me: Braves, there is one thing I want you to do for me.
Braves: What’s that?
Me: Win.
(Cue the Rocky music)
Fredi: What are we waiting fer?
Senator John Blutarski
September 28th, 2011
1:53 pm
Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!!
Ed
September 28th, 2011
1:58 pm
Braves couldn’t beat the phillies in the playoffs anyway….. so lose now and no one gets their hopes up….. but the “atlanta dream”….. they know how to take care of business… and on the road too!
Don in TN
September 28th, 2011
2:05 pm
If the Braves released Lowe, it’s true that they would still have to pay him, but at least they wouldn’t be paying him to HURT the team.
DetroitBraves
September 28th, 2011
2:07 pm
@Don in TN, that’s a fair point. You do have to pay a player no matter what but you don’t have to play him no matter what. Nor do you have to roster him at all. Releashing a high-priced player that is contributing nothing on the field is not unprecedented.
gregpatrick
September 28th, 2011
2:07 pm
Tim Hudson pitches great, Braves lose 1-0. Cards pull it out in the 9th, again, and go to playoffs. Braves fans relieved.
Curious George
September 28th, 2011
2:08 pm
After this year’s epic meltdown, should the team change its name to the…
CHERNOBYL BRAVES ?
watched it
September 28th, 2011
2:10 pm
Was there last night and could not believe how dead this team looked… I’ll be there tonight to see what kind of heart these guys can muster. Truth be told, you can’t lose 2 starting pitchers and win……
Turn Out The Lights!
September 28th, 2011
2:12 pm
The party never started with the hapless Bravos! Let the season end, they stink and don’t deserve even a sniff of a post season. Hope we have a manager change before next year! Fredi is useless!
Tin Cup
September 28th, 2011
2:16 pm
This is sad. I feel sorry for the lads! This very well could be a defining moment in Atlanta Braves history. Similar to the World Series. Up 2 games to none, leading in game three 6-0 against the Yanks then boom all is lost! I’m still shaking my head about that from 15 years ago. This feels the same.
DetroitBraves
September 28th, 2011
2:26 pm
@Tin Cup, doesn’t it seem like the Braves fortunes as a franchise all changed the night they lost that game to the Yankees. I mean, sure they had lost some series before that. Good teams do lose series. But they had also won a World Series and had a handful of other great regular season and postseason comebacks. Just felt like when Leyrtiz hit that homer something changed from that point forward.
kdawg1017
September 28th, 2011
2:27 pm
its pretty sad when tampa bay fans say that atlanta fans are the worst fans and dont support their team…and for everyone asking why they should pay money to see a team that has no heart or whatever needs to realize that if you dont pay to see the team they cant afford to pay anyone or sign anyone or bring in new players we will soon turn into the rays and the marlins but i guess thats what everyone here wants just like everyone here secretly hopes we lose every game
Braves All The Way
September 28th, 2011
2:32 pm
Ugh…I’m a born and raised Maryland girl…diehard Orioles fan (and everyone knows how well they’ve played the last 20 years)…then I move here and have to go through this…as Yogi would say, “It’s like deja vu all over again…” P.A.I.N.F.U.L.
pigskin philosophy
September 28th, 2011
2:40 pm
Braves will make the post season and win!! A fan is only good when he’s cheering.
WatchEmEveryNight_Fans
September 28th, 2011
2:49 pm
Their dejected looks last night made us, the fans dejected too. We really need the veterans (of wins and losses) to step up to convince the pups by example that we can get this job done. And when done move forward to post season. It is the never give up attitudes that will help get it done. Or else the club known for worse to first will only be known as a worse team getter worser (sic). Get loose … be loose … have fun Braves. Hope for the best and … hope for the best.
expert
September 28th, 2011
2:58 pm
ive got 500 on the braves today ez money
Frank Wren
September 28th, 2011
3:47 pm
I like girls with big butts.
lawzoo
September 28th, 2011
4:10 pm
346th! Those Bravos have their backs against the wall it’s all on the line , they have to leave it all on the field, need to play as if there’s no tomorrow, once in a lifetime chance maybe to ……get in the friggin’ play-offs??
Who gives a damn about play-offs?
WatchEmEveryNight_Fans
September 28th, 2011
4:43 pm
Last ???
jerry
September 28th, 2011
4:58 pm
The Braves have been dead for a month. It is time to bury their stinking carcasses. Viewing will be held Wednesday at 7:10 pm at Turner’s Funeral Home.
DawgFan
September 28th, 2011
5:05 pm
The Braves are absolutely done! I watch the game night in and night out and want to throw up at the sight of them hitting. I dont understand how so many major league players can all go through a slump of epic proportion when it matters the most. I love the braves but everyone is right who says there is no fire left in this team. I watch the cardinals on sportscenter every night and their guys are jumping out of the dugout anytime something good happens while our guys sit and pout.