The Pac-12 stays at 12, and the mad shuffle is near its end
Don't mess with ... well, you know how it goes. (AJC file photo)
Found: The one conference that has decided it likes itself as is.
That’d be the Pac-12, which issued a statement Tuesday night saying it isn’t going to expand. But this might not have been quite so high-minded as it sounds. Where conference realignment is concerned, nothing ever is.
Reports suggest that the Pac-12 didn’t believe its membership would be able to co-exist with the Longhorn Network, which is why this round of reshuffling began last month. Nobody is crazy about the idea of sharing a league with Texas, which means …
This round of reshuffling is near its end.
The SEC appears bent on adding Missouri and the Big East will have to do some major damage control, but the Big 12 has lived to play another day. Texas, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State won’t be headed to the Pac-12, at least not this month, and there’s no other conference that could accommodate all three. (Accommodating Texas has always been the tough part, but Oklahoma’s insistence that Oklahoma State ride along has made the Sooners a bit less attractive.)
If the SEC adds Missouri to go with Texas A&M and stops there, the biggest football league will have gotten bigger but not elephantine. If the Pac-12 stays with 12 members and the ACC, with Syracuse and Pittsburgh en route, at 14, there would seem no crying need to answer. The biggest question a 14-school SEC would face: Who’s going to move to the East? (Early suggestions point to Auburn, which is the easternmost outpost in the SEC West. Which would mean separating Auburn and Alabama.)
Assuming there’s no late flurry of mind-changing, the winner this time around would be the ACC. It has fought off expected incursions from the Big East, the Big Ten and the SEC, and it has again made itself the best basketball league by some distance. It’s still possible the SEC could make a run at Virginia Tech (even with the ACC-mandated $20 million exit fee), but the SEC has adopted a stance of, “You come to us; we won’t come to you.” And Virginia Tech couldn’t be construed as desperate to go anywhere — as opposed, say, to Texas A&M.
That’s how this all started. Texas A&M got mad over the Longhorn Network and stomped out the nearest door. You’d have to believe the Big 12 schools who were ready to sue the Aggies will be less truculent with Texas and the two Oklahomas staying and the Big 12 still be a viable (if diminished) conference. You’d have to believe that the daily — heck, hourly — round of who’s-going-where updates are about to subside.
UConn is already making eyes at the ACC, but it’s unclear if that league would want to add a 15th school without a 16th, and no obvious 16th candidate has arisen. West Virginia might still leave the Big East, but it’s not certain the SEC would want it. Oklahoma has demanded that Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe be replaced — Beebe’s apparent sin is his inability to rein in Texas — but that’s an in-house matter. In sum, what’s left this time are tweaks, as opposed to wholesale change. Until next summer, when …
Texas decides to print its own currency — Bevo Bucks. And there we’ll go again.
By Mark Bradley
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219 comments Add your comment
DP
September 21st, 2011
11:07 am
PerimiterCenterJacket, if Texas went independent, why would Oklahoma and Texas A&M boost the value of the Longhorn Network by continuing to play them? Let’s see what that Longhorn Network is worth with Texas shunned by teams in the power conferences and playing a schedule like Boise State. That’s what should happen to them.
DP
September 21st, 2011
11:12 am
And by the way Mark, you’ve been around long enough to know that who approached who is subject to spin. Jimmy Sexton never approached anybody but somehow Houston Nutt’s name came up for every college coaching vacancy, as Tommy Tuberville’s did before that. There are plenty of back channel communication opportunities between the SEC and any of the schools they might consider, Gene Stallings being one in the case of Texas A&M. Somehow I doubt A&M approached the SEC cold, without somebody having an unofficial conversation with Slive to determine that he was receptive. Or vice versa, with one of Slive’s guys telling Stallings that it had to be tough living with Texas and if things every changed, give us a call.
Smokedawg on the Water
September 21st, 2011
11:12 am
Perimeter…being an independent is becoming less and less attractive. In fact, if we do arrive at Super-Conferences, there are not going to be many free games left on the schedule or many teams that would even be interested in adding Texas to their schedule. You could potentially have 9 conference games in a 16-team Super Conference. Texas may be left playing most of their competition against BYU, Notre Dame, Army, and Navy or non “BCS” schools.
PerimeterCenterJacket
September 21st, 2011
11:14 am
DP, that’s like asking why USC, BC, and Michigan “continue to boost the value of” Notre Dame’s network. They’ll play Texas for the same reasons they always have. Don’t think that just because it’s moving to the SEC TAMU will stop playing Texas. Rivalries might generate THE biggest money in college athletics. That’s money for both sides, by the way, if it’s a home-and-home rivalry. Gate revenue is still a massive factor, so the AD’s at these schools have to maintain their best ways of getting butts in the seats. Rivalries do that. There’s no fame on ANY network if there’s no reason to be buzzing about a game. That’s one reason the SEC and Big Ten do so well…almost every week brings a storied rival to town. Texas needs those rivalries too.
GTman
September 21st, 2011
11:16 am
Texas and Uconn to the ACC.
PerimeterCenterJacket
September 21st, 2011
11:18 am
Smokedawg, I do see that point, but I think Texas would still thrive. I’m not sure these Super Conferences won’t actually end up push more teams to become independent in the long run. That is, unless the very nature of how a team accesses the championship game fundamentally changes somehow.
Greg
September 21st, 2011
11:18 am
if auburn moves, that means they will have to move the bama aub game to a date that is not the last game of the season cause you can’t have two teams playing a game and potentially be locked in to play again the next week. same scenario why fsu and miami always play early or middle of the season.
$ E C = Corruption
September 21st, 2011
11:18 am
$ E C Football:
It’s THUG-Tastic!
Greg
September 21st, 2011
11:20 am
sheesh why doesn’t my post show up. sick of these ajc blogs.
auburn won’t be playing bama as the last game if they move. simple reasoning and look at fsu miami as the reason why. now let’s see if this one posts.
Steve
September 21st, 2011
11:24 am
I wouldnt mind seeing the SEC add a Team but Auburn needs to stay in their division. GA plays them every year anyway but we don’t need them as a constant obstacle to the SEC championship.
DunwoodyDawg
September 21st, 2011
11:26 am
Steve. We have a lot more obstacles than Auburn to a SEC championship.
Pitbull
September 21st, 2011
11:26 am
Two points:
When the SEC added South Carolina & Arkansas a reporter asked Vince Dooley (the UGA AD) why those two and not Miami which was at the top of their program back then (about 1992). He stated that the SEC wanted to add flagship schools of additional states because of the broad fan base support for those schools. Read that high game attendance and tv ratings. Miami had great teams during those years, but large sections of the Orage Bowl where they played were generally empty and Miami’s following lagged far behind UF & FSU. So the state flagship school approach is nothing new. Dooley also commented that SC & Ark had excellent basketball and baseball programs that would elevate play in the SEC and he was right.
The second point is that the state of Texas is so big that it in fact has at least 3 flagship universities:
Texas, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech. With the population of Houston (larger than Atlanta) it could be argued that UH might also be considered a flagship university if you have ever seen their stadium and the attendance and support.
I do not want Texas, Texas Tech or SMU in the SEC. Those were the troublemakers that tore apart the old Southwest Conference by continually turning in each other to the NCAA until the SMU program was destroyed for 20 years after 2 years without football. The conference subsequently fell apart.
Ironically the Big 8 came to the rescue of the 4 Texas schools and created the Big 12, and in return the University of Texas has again caused problems by being a money hog and tearing apart the Big 12 by driving off origional Big 8 members Nebraska, Colorado and possibly Missouri.
Greg
September 21st, 2011
11:27 am
The only way the Big 12 could be made solid again would be for the existing schools to take the unprecedented move of BOOTING TEXAS. Then all parties could be made equal partners and the conference would solidify in a heartbeat. They could all flip the finger at TU and enjoy watching them twist in the wind.
THE Dixie Redcoat Band
September 21st, 2011
11:29 am
May as well pick up the Rainbow Warriers for the Hawaii tv market.
How about Manchester United for the UK market.
Just how much more $$$ does the $EC wants/needs!
Buckeye
September 21st, 2011
11:31 am
Are the dogs still in the SEC Least?
honky talkin'
September 21st, 2011
11:33 am
NONE of this should be allowed during the season! With all the freakin’ rules the NCAA imposes on practice times, phone calls to recruits. etc., schools and conferences should be fined for discussing realignment.
Yeah..Right
September 21st, 2011
11:34 am
Did the ACC really believe that having 16 members would magically convert them into a football “superconference”? Gimme a break!
Now that they’ve strayed from the Atlantic Coast is search of football relevance, they should rename the conference from ACC to BMC.
Big Mediocre Conference
Vince Dooley
September 21st, 2011
11:35 am
@Steve 11:24 am: The whole SEC is an obstacle for the Dawgs. UGA is completely irrelevant in the SEC.
Mexdawg
September 21st, 2011
11:36 am
We don´t need Texas A&M.The SEC is great the way it is.If the Big 12 got rid of Texas and the LHN I think Texas A&M would stay and all the other schools in the confrence would be happy. That would be fine with me and most other SEC fans.As it stands now we have to add another team to our confrence.Man I hate this.
James
September 21st, 2011
11:37 am
Glad the ACC was able to get rid of that gap between Maryland and Boston College, pick up the huge states of Pennsylvania and New York and become a contiguous Eastern Seaboard conference. The uncontested premier basketball conference in the nation and pretty good AQ football with FSU, Va Tech, Clemson, GT, Miami, Maryland, North Carolina.
And the ACC academic pedigree have not been compromised with the additions. It is a BCS Ivy and ready for the next go round if everyone wants to go to 16. Can’t understand why the SEC doesn’t just take WVU to go with Tex AM. I don’t think ACC schools would go to SEC to be caught dead in the academic situation like that. Just my opinion. I think the ACC TV deal will be huge when restructured and they might be the winner in all of this. How did they do that so fast with Pitt and Syracuse?
Glenn
September 21st, 2011
11:39 am
This isn’t over . I doubt now Mizzou will go to the SEC . They have been to instrumental in keeping the conference together . As long as Texas isn’t independent whoever is in their conference will be rubbed wrong by their network . Really this IMO shows the power of ESPN . If they don’t give Texas 300 million for the start up of the school sports network we don’t have this problem . Funny the next discussions will involve what the network can show and can’t as far as keeping the BIG 12 together. I wonder how that will sit with ESPN and what say they will have ?
The real loser in this is Oklahoma . You would think the school with the best football team in the country would have options . I wonder what they do now and how joined at hip they are with Okla. State after not having a single option outside the BIG 12 ?
Yeah..Right
September 21st, 2011
11:40 am
@Greg
The Big-12 has already been damaged by the loss of Nebraska and Colorado. Without both Texas and Oklahoma to anchor the conference, they will not survive. You can’t have a legitimate football conference anchored by only one elite football program. Texas will just have to learn to behave itself. Once they are finally made to understand that this is in their best interest, they’ll come around.
BP
September 21st, 2011
11:41 am
Hey dp ok state whooped the dawgs last time they played. And SC has beaten you twice in a row. Put ga in that group too retard.
BP
September 21st, 2011
11:46 am
Uh yeah right, go take some geography lessons idiot. New york state and Pennslyvania BOTH border the Atlantic ocean. Some of you sec people are complete dunderheads.
Alex
September 21st, 2011
11:49 am
Clemson 38
Auburn 24
Miami blows out Ohio St
Gt blows out Kansas.
Fsu tied with #1 team in the 4th qtr.
and sec people talkin crap about the acc this morning.
Yeah..Right
September 21st, 2011
11:49 am
BMC
DP
September 21st, 2011
11:49 am
BP, moron, first of all I’m not a Dawg, I’m an Alabama guy. Second, I’m speaking of the relative stature of programs over time. Georgia doesn’t rate where some of its delusional fans think it does, i.e. a top 5 or top 10 program, but it certainly rates higher than Oklahoma State over any reasonable period of time.
Yeah..Right
September 21st, 2011
11:52 am
@Alex
SEC – 6 National Championships so far this century.
BMC – 0
James
September 21st, 2011
11:52 am
Clemson won’t have it so easy now. Auburn was easy, have to go back to the ACC now with FSU and VT. Clemson is good this year, but FSU and VT are going to have much tougher teams than Auburn. And Louisville is better than Kentucky we should get Lville in the SEC.
DP
September 21st, 2011
11:55 am
Hey Alex, congrats on that ACC win over football powerhouse Kansas. I notice you didn’t mention anything about the ACC’s record in BCS bowl games. But Florida State is close to being a powerhouse again, so congrats on that. If you could get FSU and Virginia Tech matched up in the ACC championship game every year you might be able to draw a crowd above 30,000.
DP
September 21st, 2011
11:58 am
Just as major league baseball teams figured out over the last couple of decades that they should build stadiums with smaller seating capacity, the ACC should think about making Duke’s Wallace Wade Stadium, with seating capacity of around 35,000, the permanent home of its conference championship game so they have a chance of selling it out and making it look more exciting to the TV audience.
Rick
September 21st, 2011
11:58 am
This is only “over” if Texas gives up quite a bit on the LHN. Even if it does, as being seen today in various stories, some schools and conferences are still looking at options.
Joe Bob Thibodaux
September 21st, 2011
12:05 pm
Mark, the SEC should remain at 12, and 13 if their commitment to TAM has to be honored.
The PAC 12 schools are trying to survive a title shot every now and then, and the additiion of Oklahoma, OK-State, etc. would make it very unlikely any of the existing PAC 12 schools would have much less chance of getting a NC opportunity or BCS bowl.
The Big 12 should impose its own restrictions on broadcasting rights for its members, and just don’t play if the pay isn’t on par.
The SEC will be just fine. The Conference is stable, will make recruiting even better because it is the premier football conference this century, and the schools can recruit where the parents have the opportunity to see their kids play ball. WIN WIN FOR THE SEC.
I don’t care about basketball, so those schools are irrelevant.
ESPN should broadcast games but not influence realignment of college athleltic conferences or use their talking heads to demand a playoff systtem.
SEC Rules.
JBT
JBT
Doug
September 21st, 2011
12:09 pm
Mark: I think you are wrong about the PAC-12 deciding to stay at 12 teams. I think this is a negotiating tactic. It shows Texas they will have to relent on the LHN if anymore negotiations are expected. That was the same thing the SEC and, belatedly, the ACC told Texas. It is also why the Big 12 will be a fragile conference until this issue is resolved finally.
cattledawg
September 21st, 2011
12:10 pm
Pitt and Cuse coaches and fans dont want any part of the acc. Congrats
GR82BAG8R
September 21st, 2011
12:14 pm
BP, Pennsylvania does NOT border the Atlantic Ocean. You can get to Pennsylvania from the Atlantic Ocean via the Delaware River, owned by New Jersey and Delaware – - thus Pennsylvania borders New Jersey and Delaware. Using your logic, Arkansas borders the Gulf Coast because you reach it via the Mississippi River.
Two words out of the ACC when hearing PAC-12 decided not to expand – - UH-OH
Yeah..Right
September 21st, 2011
12:17 pm
@GR82BAG8R
Yep… Somebody jumped the gun and shot themselves in the foot. It’s okay, they don’t really play football anyway.
Bill
September 21st, 2011
12:17 pm
wow those local weather people are great! last night it was 1-2 inches of rain all day today! it sure is pouring out there.
really???
September 21st, 2011
12:17 pm
Mark Bradley @ 10:08a -
It would be a tad hypocritical of the SEC to say they don’t want to have more than one member institution in a state when there are two SEC schools in Alabama, Mississippi, and Tennessee, don’t you think? Yeah, I get that these are some of the original SEC members from the 1930s, but I would think if you can land OU and Okie State you have to take that chance, or at least give it some thought…
BP
September 21st, 2011
12:20 pm
Not over the past 4 years they haven’t DP. Does that stand for dumbass prick?
Shug
September 21st, 2011
12:21 pm
The one interesting item in the article is that Mr. Bradley still considers the ACC the land’s best basketball conference. That ship sailed years ago.
Alex
September 21st, 2011
12:22 pm
Thanks DP. Yeah Ga’s win over that powerhouse Coastal was even more impressive! Seeing SC struggle to beat Navy was a laugher. Just like your overrated conference.
Yeah..Right
September 21st, 2011
12:23 pm
@really???
Rumors are rumors, but one rumor that has been around for over a year is that if Texas will not settle for equal revenue sharing in the Big-12 , then OK, OK ST, MO and A&M will all move to the SEC. That’s probably the rumor that started all of this “16 team conference” scuttlebutt.
I hope it doesn’t happen, but anything’s possible.
Atlanta Gator
September 21st, 2011
12:24 pm
“Or just had WVU and stay at 14. Funny thing about WVU is they play the best football an basketball of all these schools that have jumped leagues and no one wants them. I guess its all about the money.”
Of course, it’s about the money, but there are other considerations apart from the fact that West Virginia is a ridiculously small media market that will cost more in reduced shares of the SEC’s current payout to existing members than it brings in new TV revenue. West Virginia University is also an academic weak sister that makes the Mississippi universities look good by comparison. Bottom line: WVU would not materially enhance the SEC’s TV revenue stream or its academic averages. That’s a big thumb’s down on both points.
Joe Bob Thibodaux
September 21st, 2011
12:25 pm
really???
It is hard enough to win the SEC title outright. Do you really think that the SEC schools want OK, OK STAte, etc. With the 12-13 EC teams, Alabama, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, etc already with excelent BCS standing, do they want to add other real contenders?
I don’t think so.
JBT
cattledawg
September 21st, 2011
12:25 pm
How will the acc reconfigure its divisions now that they have added 2 basketball schools?
GatornATL
September 21st, 2011
12:26 pm
Mark – I feel Slive will go after VT even if it comes with a baggage. UF may not like FSU in SEC…they will lose “SEC recruiting” advantage…any thoughts..
BP
September 21st, 2011
12:27 pm
No using my logic would be like saying houston is a coastal city which by all counts it is. My logic was spot on. Your inane comparison makes no sense considering you can get to the ocean in 20 minutes from PA but it takes 6 hours from southern Arkysaw
CarolinaStewPie
September 21st, 2011
12:29 pm
ACC is still mediocre at football, but slowly getting better, and they seem to be catching up to the bigtime conferences, at least in NCAA sanctions!:)
Adding Pitt and Syracuse strengthened the ‘brand’, and these days it’s all about the ‘brand’ boys and girls. ‘Cuse wanted in desperately 5 years ago. Those guys hate losing their hoops buddies from Seton Hall, St. John’s, Geo’town and ‘Nova, but they love having Duke and Carolina comin’ to town now!
@Gatorn…VT busted their behinds to get in the ACC and aren’t going anywhere. I’m sure the SEC already made that call.
NYC is now a huge ACC market, and they’ll covet ND for awhile, and maybe even PSU. Likely they’ll settle for UConn and Rutgers and the Big East football will have to grab Marshall and ECU and UCF.
No way this is over after that midnight special deal bringing Pitt and Syracuse in. It might be a little about hoops, too.
Atlanta Gator
September 21st, 2011
12:30 pm
“BP, Pennsylvania does NOT border the Atlantic Ocean. You can get to Pennsylvania from the Atlantic Ocean via the Delaware River, owned by New Jersey and Delaware –- thus Pennsylvania borders New Jersey and Delaware.”
Nothing like a little geography lesson on a football blog. Well done, sir.