Vulnerable, huh? The ACC crowns itself king of college hoops
"Roy, I really don't know how to tell you this -- but we've got company." (AP photo)
The ACC faced a choice: Eat or be eaten. The league opted not just to grab something at the drive-thru but to dine in style. Only days ago we wondered if this conference could survive in a world powered by King Football. Today we hail John Swofford and his associates as the new monarchs of college basketball.
Bradley’s Rule: Better to be the king of something than the earl of everything.
The ACC’s grand football experiment hadn’t worked. Adding Virginia Tech, Miami and Boston College didn’t hoist the ACC above/alongside the SEC. Truth to tell, the 12-team ACC was no better than fourth-best at football among the six BCS leagues. Worse, the ACC’s time-honored stock in trade had eroded to the extent that Duke and North Carolina has risen further above the basketball pack — North Carolina State reference partially intended — than ever.
The Big East now played better basketball, and several conferences played better football. What was to keep schools tied to Tobacco Road when other leagues came calling?
Be advised that the SEC has great interest in adding schools that can be deemed “flagships” in states that don’t already feature an SEC outpost. That would include three ACC members of more than a half-century’s standing — North Carolina, Maryland and Virginia. The SEC would have been happy to take two of those three and add Missouri to Texas A&M and become a 16-team league.
SEC commissioner Mike Slive is often described as the smartest man in college athletics, but here the ACC’s Swofford stole a march. He increased the exit fee for a school looking to leave his league to $20 million, and with the poaching of two Big Easterners he has lifted his league back to the top of the second-biggest college sport. Pitt and Syracuse have been known to play good football — Pitt had Tony Dorsett and Hugh Green and Dan Marino; Syracuse had Jim Brown and Ernie Davis and Donovan McNabb — but they don’t really change the ACC’s grid profile. They do, however, offer two more basketball tent-poles to array alongside Carolina and Duke.
With this move, the ACC cannot be viewed as prey. It’s a predator. If that sounds unseemly, so be it. To suggest that any conference should sit politely while every other league is grabbing hand over fist is to deny reality. The SEC and Big Ten and Big East would surely have made runs at ACC schools. What was Swofford supposed to do, play his violin while his league went up in smoke?
The ACC cast a cold eye on its assets and liabilities and saw a way to get bigger without necessarily getting better at football. That’s not bad form. That’s good business. And it’s clear in hindsight that we on the periphery undervalued another ACC selling point: It actually has good schools. Five ACC institutions — Duke, Georgia Tech, Maryland, North Carolina and Virginia — are members of the prestigious Association of American Universities, and Pitt makes six. (The SEC, by way of contrast, has three, and that’s counting Texas A&M.)
If you’re a college president looking to conference-hop, the thought of allying yourself with a league that isn’t just a repository of football factories can make for a softer landing. Indeed, UConn is believed to be exploring the possibility of an ACC leap. Last month we wondered who’d stay in Swofford’s league. Today we ask: Who else wants to join?
As an old college basketball hand, I’m encouraged to be reminded that football isn’t the driving force in every single matter pertaining to collegiate sports. (As a pragmatist, I’m also more than a bit surprised.) And if I’m Swofford, I wouldn’t stop here: I’d go hard at UConn and Louisville or even Kansas and brand this conference in hoops as the SEC has in football — as the standard so golden everyone else is trading in bronze.
Oh, and I have a message for Dan Radakovich, the Tech AD. The next time your phone rings, it will be Brian Gregory. He hasn’t yet coached a basketball game for you, and already he wants a raise.
By Mark Bradley
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353 comments Add your comment
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
6:49 pm
Simple Techster – you could be right, but those last 5, oh my…
Also, Texas Tech is in tag-along mode with Texas, hoping to be headed to the PAC-16 (they seriously have to rename that conference; Rocky Pacific Desert Coast, maybe)
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:51 pm
Texas, naturally is more impressive…the second best overall record in active playing schools today with 4 national championships. But the way the school has acted in the Big 12, constantly trying to dicate terms and decisions, practically running off Nebraska and exuding an attitude of us first, us and our conference second, and everyone else third is very well documented. Instead of having a true Atlantic Coast conference, you have 14 to 15 schools on the coast, and one over 600 miles away. They, to me, are just not the right fit for the ACC.
`234TYJ,/';'
September 19th, 2011
6:51 pm
Enter your comments here
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:52 pm
I agree wholeheartedly about Florida. But would they want to leave the SEC?
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:54 pm
I think the last 5 schools I mentioned are automatically out just due to academics. Now I am rather ignorant in this area so if I am wrong and I am insulting someones school I mean no disrespect, just remembering things i have read recently. But both Central and South Florida have been on the rise, WVU has an excellent football program, and I like East Carolina. Very spunky but isolated…just imagine what they could do with more money and a more stable conference to call home…..
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:56 pm
Gotta check out…thank you to everyone for sharing their time and comments with me, I will try and check in later. Needless to say, this is a historic occassion…college football will never be the same again. I dont really know how I feel about it. I knew this day was coming. I just hope a playoff comes from it, and the dirty recruiting and cheating schools play fair and clean…which in a way is all of them. How does everyone feel about what is going on…happy or sad?
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
6:59 pm
maybe because it is Alabama’s conference. Georgia Tech had a good rivalry with Florida in the ’60s when Ray Graves was Florida’s coach.
Richard
September 19th, 2011
7:01 pm
As a Florida State fan and graduate, I am MOST disappointed by this move and just as I suspected, football got screwed in the ACC over basketball. I am MOST disappointed in FSU President Barron for voting in favor of upping the buy-out to leave the ACC and then voting in favor to, as he put it “add to the northern tier” of the ACC. When probed for further comment he states that “Pittsburgh and Syracuse, who have applied, these are solid academic schools, and the ACC is a truly academic conference. Certainly great BASKETBALL teams a GOOD history of football.”
How does the president of a university that has a long tradition over the past 30 years or so of GREAT football and, let’s be honest, a poor basketball program make such a statement? It is VERY clear that the past ACC expansion was an experiment that failed DRASTICALLY! The ACC Championship is poorly attended and is not the financial cash cow of other conference championship games. So to make this more attractive, the ACC brings in PItt and Syracuse? You’re kidding me right? It is already a HUGE financial burden on FSU to travel to Boston every other year. And, who’s brilliant idea was it to put FSU and BC in the same division?
I just got home from the FSU/Oklahoma game and although it was a heartbreaking loss, it was exciting to see Doak Campbell filled to capacity like it was in the days I was a student there (1993-1997). Tallahassee has not seen the likes of something like that in over a decade. In fact, I watched the local news Friday night and it was reported about how much Garnet and Gold was flowing through Tallahassee, but the bigger talk was how much GREEN was flowing into the local economy. Yes, we are talking about money… Washington’s, Jackson’s, Grants and Franklins!!! Basketball games have not, nor will they EVER bring in the amount of money to Tallahassee as football. So get over basketball.
As it stands today, our conference, the ACC, has taken a HUGE step backwards for FSU. I am a proponent of moving FSU to the SEC, if they would take us. But when we make stupid decisions like voting to bring in more schools to “add to the northern tier,” I can see why the SEC would think, “No thanks,” to FSU. I cannot believe that local and state government officials in Florida, officials for the city of Tallahassee and officials for Leon County have not called FSU’s president and said, “Do you know how much that game this weekend BOOSTED the local economy?” We need to make this a normal thing in Tallahassee. Well Tallahassee and Leon County, I wish you tremendous luck filling hotel rooms and people paying over $1000 a plane ticket to come to Tallahassee to see FSU play UConn in football or Rutgers is one we’re looking into, and can’t wait for that Syracuse/FSU match up…boy I might be standing outside the gate looking in on those games.
Other schools in the ACC with decent football programs should be concerned as well. FSU, Miami, Ga Tech and Clemson just got screwed royally by our presidents in terms of football. I hope that FSU reaps the benefits of which they sow and maybe we will be placed in a division with BC, UConn, Rutger AND PItt….that way we can spend even more money every other year and play up north. Heaven forbid FSU try to stay in the south and BEG the SEC for mercy. We are within 5 hours drive from almost half the SEC schools. And Tallahassee’s economy would BOOM when FSU plays LSU, Auburn, Alabama, UF, UGA, South Carolina, Tennessee…..No one will give a crap about FSU Rutgers or FSU UConn….This is a sad, sad day for FSU athletics!
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
7:02 pm
West Virginia had some great basketball teams when I was growing up, with players like Jerry West and Rod Thorne, righ off the top of my old head.
ormewood
September 19th, 2011
7:05 pm
No chance of East Carolina joining the ACC. You definitely don’t need another team from NC in that conference. They bring no new television markets whatsoever. Finally, have you ever been to Greenville NC? Yikes.
Jerk
September 19th, 2011
7:06 pm
Super conferences will ruin college sports. Remember these next couple of years sports fans, cause its gonna be completely un-exciting in a couple if years in football.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
7:13 pm
There has always been something that will ruin college sports..
For Notre Dame, it was bowl games
For the Big Ten, it was 10 game seasons
For the 1950s, it was unlimited substitution
For the 1970s, it was freshman eligibility
There was a time in the ’60s where there was a limit to the number of games a team could appear on TV
Football NOT Basketball
September 19th, 2011
7:14 pm
Mark,
Football (and related TV markets) is driving this expension, NOT Basketball. Football delivers more revenue (it’s about the money) for these conferences than the $2B+ NCAA basketall contract/tournament. Also, the conferences has more control over football revenue and BCS championship. So the SEC, PAC 12 and others are chasing schools with strong football traditions and increased TV markets. No one cares if the ACC is king of hoops. This just proves ACC doesn’t get it, again.
Ramblin Man
September 19th, 2011
7:16 pm
I say go crazy and reach out to UCLA and USC that way we fans can travel from coast to coast.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
7:19 pm
For college basketball, expansion of the NCAA tournament in the ’50s to 16 teams was a sure death knell
In the ’70s, expansion to 32 teams was a national disgrace; it made the prestigious National Invitational Tournament in Madison Square Garden irrelevant
Aurelius
September 19th, 2011
7:21 pm
GeoffDawg September 19th, 2011 3:00 pm
Re the Association of American Universities. The Big 10 would only accept AAU members. They accepted Nebraska and the AAU kicked Nebraska out of the AAU two weeks before Nebraska was to become an “official” member of the Big 10. The Big 10 presidents voted to allow Nebraska to remain a member.
Membership in the AAU is by invitation. They are all research universities with an emphasis on teaching. Every non-member in the country would like to become a member. Once in the AAU standards must be met – see Nebraska.
There are about 61+/- members of the AAU.
What is the purpose of a university? If it is to field a football team then the SEC has the top unoiversities in the country. If it is the do fundamental research and teach a new generation, them the AAU is the standard by which all are measured.
A lot of readers of the AJC would vote to judge the success of the football team has the standard of excellence in college education. Auburn is today the top university in America per those who think that way.
Of interest. Florida has won 2 recent national titles and is a member of the AAU. It is possible to do both athletics and academics. President Adams at Georgia is trying to do both. But he has a fight with the “football only” alumni every day.
H
September 19th, 2011
7:21 pm
Having lived in NYC for 10+ years I can tell you thatvRutgers brings absolutely nothing to the table. The only people that think Rutgers is important are Rutgers people. You never see people wearing anything Rutgers in the city. Never. That is a 100% fact. Syracuse, Uconn, ND & Penn State are the big draws in the city. Rutgers is an afterthought. They had 1 big win in 100 years… The ACC would gain nothing from adding them. Syracuse, Uconn, & Pitt always brought the most fans to the Big East Tournament. Believe me, Rutgers doesn’t bring any of the NYC market that Syracuse, Pitt and possibly Uconn already have.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
7:24 pm
Maybe this will increase the number of trains Amtrak runs from the southeast to the northeast corridor.
Due West Brave
September 19th, 2011
7:25 pm
When the dust finally settles, whether any of us likes it or not, it appears that there will be 4 – 16 team Conferences. It will not matter which one you are in, it will just matter that your school is in one of them. Old rivals, natural or uniform boundaries, travel distances for road games will no longer matter or in most cases even be considered. The old, known and loved game has changed and it is not coming back. When the TV suits agreed to put up the big $$ they are all about expanding TV market and market share. So unless you are basing your opinion on what TV wants you are totally off base. And please, the TV folks could care less about academics, academic standing, or how tough they make travels for fans to any away game. They want easy program production and sports is one of the easiest and since we all know College Presidents care about the $$ first and foremost, they will do whatever the TV folks tell them to do. So get ready for a College version of what they have done to the NFL, ironic that they NFL is now a 32 team league and they are going to double that for the new 64 team College football league. So here comes parity and a weak regular season. What a sorry state of affairs.
Russ' Chew Toy
September 19th, 2011
7:26 pm
Now that the ACC has slapped $20 million chastity belts on their member schools, I’m thinking the SEC can forget about FSU and Clemson. So, among the rest who still need a date to the prom, who does the SEC go after to reach 16? Missouri to balance the West, and West Viriginia and South Florida? Know that violates the one-per-state goal, but sometimes you can’t have it all. Other long shot could be Eastern Carolina, or Louisville, but either of these break that same rule.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
7:31 pm
H – I’ve lived in North Jersey (Middletown, Red Bank, Atlantic Highlands) and South Jersey (Vineland) and from what I remember from the late ’60s through 1979, I have to agree. Rutgers is the State University of New Jersey, but sports-wise, folks were far more interested in Notre Dame (in both “sub-states”) and Penn State (in South Jersey/greater Philadelphia).
Paul in NH (formerly RDU)
September 19th, 2011
7:38 pm
There are certainly some interesting ideas being thrown around on this blog. Craziest is ND and PSU to the ACC. Maybe 20 years ago PSU’s biggest rivals were Pitt, Syracuse and Maryland but those rivalries are long gone. The Penn State fans I know (and as a 15 year resident of Scranton I knew a few) want to beat OSU more than anyone else. PSU has little to gain by leaving the B1G for the ACC – the ACC can’t offer them more $$$, aren’t going to help them fill Beaver Stadium (it’s full for every game now) – although they may lower the travel budget.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
7:39 pm
Due West Brave – You are giving the TV folks far too much credit for successful scheming. NBC, case in point.
One other counterpoint, to a weak regular season.: winning the conference championship is the only thing that will matter; there will be a playoff in college football. This BCS scam that the slimy and corrupt rat-fink ba——–ds crammed down our throats will be blasted away forever.
Did I mention that I don’t like fake bowl game championships?
Paul in NH (formerly RDU)
September 19th, 2011
7:40 pm
Delbert
The only 2 college teams the people in NE PA care about are PSU and ND
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
7:41 pm
Paul – Thanks for your input. Penn State was an independent when I lived in the northeast, of course.
blazer
September 19th, 2011
7:44 pm
West Va. and Uconn would make it greater
Lowly Peasant
September 19th, 2011
7:45 pm
@Aurelius
September 19th, 2011
7:21 pm
My, my, how arrogant can one person be?
We poor peasants simply can’t segregate sports from academia, can we?
Thank you, oh mighty Aurelius… Thank you for bestowing your magnificent pity upon us.
WE’RE NOT WORTHY !!!
WE’RE NOT WORTHY !!!
Due West Brave
September 19th, 2011
7:55 pm
Delbert – I agree with you on the NBC deal up to a point but they are only paying ND and at a reduced market rate so it was and is a pretty good deal for them. As far as the weak regular season and the need to only win your conference/division, doesn’t that actually make the point that teams like FSU and Clemson will stay in the ACC rather than go to a conference/division like the SEC that would be harder to win. They are all going to get basically the same amount of $$ so all that matters is being in one of the 4 surviving 16 team conferences.
My children think I am older that dirt and when I tell them about how things were in the 70’s and 80’s. I think future generations are going to think the same of us when we take those trips back down memory lane remembering how college football used to be in the good ole days.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
8:01 pm
Peasants aren’t typically into academia much. Now, monks who have taken a vow of poverty, that’s a totally different deal. Those guys copy ancient books by hand.
Atlanta Jacket
September 19th, 2011
8:04 pm
NOT BAD, BUT I WOULD STILL LIKE TO SEE GEORGIA TECH IN A REAL FOOTBALL CONFERENCE LIKE THE BIG 10.
KIND OF HARD TO GET EXCITED ABOUT GOING TO DODD AND WATCHING DUKE, WF, UNC, SYRACUSE, NCST, MARYLAND (AND SOON TO BE) UCONN.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
8:08 pm
Win the conference, make the playoffs. Play all OOC games against big-time opponents and pack the stadium. It will be very simple.
Birmingham Jacket
September 19th, 2011
8:15 pm
“Not Bad” is an understatement, Atlanta Jacket.
Georgia Tech is a football school, and it’s time to leave the sorry conference that embarrasses itself every time it tees is up in inter-conference play.
Who cares about stupid basketball?
Russ' Chew Toy
September 19th, 2011
8:23 pm
ACC Rules
Perhaps with your superior and ultimate knowledge you can corraborate this fact: UGA has never had one of it’s famous “academically elite” students charged with cold-blooded murder on the city streets. Can your institution of prestige say the same?
Watcher
September 19th, 2011
8:25 pm
@Delbert D.
“Why doesn’t the SEC look at TCU? They are about to be virtually homeless in the former Big East, and they are, by god in Texas, and near an airport to boot.”
I agree Delbert. TCU would seem to be a natural fit for the SEC, especially if the TAMU move goes through. TCU was a major player in CFB back in the day, and they’ve spent a lot of time in the Top-10 recently.
@SimpleTechster
“Syracuse has an all time record of 681-481-49 with one national title. They have promise…”
They do have some history. That’s worth something. It’s a foundation, but their more recent history hasn’t been so bright. They did beat WVA last year, I think.
@floridajacket
“they’ve seen themselves as outsiders in the SEC for over 40 years. Florida.”
Whatever gave you such a crazy idea? That’s funny!
Actually, Florida is the primary obstacle to FSU entering the SEC. They don’t want to relinquish the recruiting advantage of being the only SEC school in the state. I think that they’ll have to be vetoed. Will that make them mad enough to bolt to the ACC? Perhaps… but they’ll have to check with the accountants first.
Ramblin Man
September 19th, 2011
8:31 pm
For all of you saying GT needs to leave the ACC you need to give it up. With all the presidents voting the buyout to increase to $20 million nobody is going anywhere. Love it or hate it college football as we know it is done. All we can do as ACC fans now is hope that if we go to 16 atleast one offers something in football. I do find it funny though that ESPN is slamming the ACC for this move stating the ACC is killing college football and money hungry, when little was said about the SEC taking A&M. Um do the reporters who work for ESPN realize thier employers TV contracts are what started a good bit of this?
Georgie Boys
September 19th, 2011
8:32 pm
Can you say?
YELLOW———–JACKETS!!!
YELLOW———–JACKETS!!!
Watcher
September 19th, 2011
8:37 pm
@Ramblin Man
Accepting an inquiry from a school that has already left it’s conference is not exactly the same as as poaching teams under the table, morally and ethically speaking.
You are correct regarding the irony of ESPN feigning disgust.
Watcher
September 19th, 2011
8:41 pm
@Ramblin Man
Is it your contention that accepting an inquiry from a school that has already left it’s conference is morally and ethically equivalent to poaching schools from another conference under the table?
I agree with your assessment of the irony inherent in the network whose name shall not be spoken feigning disgust.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
8:50 pm
ESPN has a contract with the Big East that runs through 2013 for football. That’s why ESPN is morally outraged. ESPN’s contract with the ACC is for 12 years; it started this year. The ACC took part of ESPN’s Big East product and stands to take more. ESPN will likely make less money with the New Big East/Leftovers from Big 12 *and* they will have to increase the contract value of the ACC deal for the addition of 4 schools they already had a contract with.
DawgVille
September 19th, 2011
8:54 pm
The SEC wants nothing to do with ga tech—they would bring little money to the conference and can’t field teams that are competitive. The SEC needs to get OU or Missouri for #14.
floridajacket
September 19th, 2011
8:54 pm
Watcher as to who gave me the idea that people at the University of Florida have considered themselves outsiders in the Southeastern conference? Over the years I have heard those complaints about the SEC from Florida alumni, former athletes, current and former coaches, professors and a chancellor of the Florida University system. If you are the University of Florida would you want to be mentioned in the same breath as Alabama, Mississippi State and Arkansas.
ACC #1
September 19th, 2011
8:56 pm
ACC—now clearly the best conference in America!
Paul in NH (formerly RDU)
September 19th, 2011
9:00 pm
Here is an interesting article from a Penn State blog a couple of years ago – how the Big East made a huge mistake by rejecting PSU in 1991
http://nittanywhiteout.com/2009/07/20/the-big-east-regrets-losing-penn-state/
Makes you wonder what would be happening now if PSU was an anchor school in the Big East
Russ' Chew Toy
September 19th, 2011
9:09 pm
test
Russ' Chew Toy
September 19th, 2011
9:09 pm
Geez, That’s the one post I submit that clears the bloody filters???? What a load….
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
9:14 pm
It must have been the 9 p.m. shift change for the ajc interns.
Russ' Chew Toy
September 19th, 2011
9:16 pm
If the powers-that-be filters will finally allow me to comment, let me first say I’m glad that the civility seems to have returned to this post whereas a few hours earlier there was an abormally large number of holier-than-thou north avenue’ers who could use a few lessons in humility and discourse. To those academic elitists, I’ll offer only one word that should be sufficient (and to those of you who are civil I apologize for having to do this but difficult people require difficult measures) — Crittendon.
I also have to chuckle at the mental pleasuring that you are going through thinking TX, ND, or PS will go the ACC. Not gonna happen.
I also agree that ACC seems to have deadbolted the exits, so I doubt FS:U, Clemson or VT will leave for the SEC, although they’d all be welcomed. Having said that, Yeah Right made one valid point — the exit fee was raised from $13M to $20M. Mere pittance compared to the long term revenue increase SEC football money will pull in.
And FL wants to leave the SEC? That’s got to be an all time high in hilarity.
cloudy
September 19th, 2011
9:18 pm
It seems that “the rumors of the demise of the ACC have been greatly exaggerated”.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
9:22 pm
UNC self-imposed sanctions announced today:
- Vacates 16 football victories from the 2008 and 2009 seasons
- Cuts 3 scholarships for 3 years
- Football program on 2 years of probation
- Will pay a $50,000 fine, but not impose a postseason ban
If the Boise St. situation is any indicator, the NCAA will triple those
GT92
September 19th, 2011
9:25 pm
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:40 pm
It is hypocrisy that Texas is complaining about the greed of all of the other conferences causing the realignment shuffle. It was the GREED OF TEXAS that has caused the Big12 to crumble and started all of this.