Vulnerable, huh? The ACC crowns itself king of college hoops
"Roy, I really don't know how to tell you this -- but we've got company." (AP photo)
The ACC faced a choice: Eat or be eaten. The league opted not just to grab something at the drive-thru but to dine in style. Only days ago we wondered if this conference could survive in a world powered by King Football. Today we hail John Swofford and his associates as the new monarchs of college basketball.
Bradley’s Rule: Better to be the king of something than the earl of everything.
The ACC’s grand football experiment hadn’t worked. Adding Virginia Tech, Miami and Boston College didn’t hoist the ACC above/alongside the SEC. Truth to tell, the 12-team ACC was no better than fourth-best at football among the six BCS leagues. Worse, the ACC’s time-honored stock in trade had eroded to the extent that Duke and North Carolina has risen further above the basketball pack — North Carolina State reference partially intended — than ever.
The Big East now played better basketball, and several conferences played better football. What was to keep schools tied to Tobacco Road when other leagues came calling?
Be advised that the SEC has great interest in adding schools that can be deemed “flagships” in states that don’t already feature an SEC outpost. That would include three ACC members of more than a half-century’s standing — North Carolina, Maryland and Virginia. The SEC would have been happy to take two of those three and add Missouri to Texas A&M and become a 16-team league.
SEC commissioner Mike Slive is often described as the smartest man in college athletics, but here the ACC’s Swofford stole a march. He increased the exit fee for a school looking to leave his league to $20 million, and with the poaching of two Big Easterners he has lifted his league back to the top of the second-biggest college sport. Pitt and Syracuse have been known to play good football — Pitt had Tony Dorsett and Hugh Green and Dan Marino; Syracuse had Jim Brown and Ernie Davis and Donovan McNabb — but they don’t really change the ACC’s grid profile. They do, however, offer two more basketball tent-poles to array alongside Carolina and Duke.
With this move, the ACC cannot be viewed as prey. It’s a predator. If that sounds unseemly, so be it. To suggest that any conference should sit politely while every other league is grabbing hand over fist is to deny reality. The SEC and Big Ten and Big East would surely have made runs at ACC schools. What was Swofford supposed to do, play his violin while his league went up in smoke?
The ACC cast a cold eye on its assets and liabilities and saw a way to get bigger without necessarily getting better at football. That’s not bad form. That’s good business. And it’s clear in hindsight that we on the periphery undervalued another ACC selling point: It actually has good schools. Five ACC institutions — Duke, Georgia Tech, Maryland, North Carolina and Virginia — are members of the prestigious Association of American Universities, and Pitt makes six. (The SEC, by way of contrast, has three, and that’s counting Texas A&M.)
If you’re a college president looking to conference-hop, the thought of allying yourself with a league that isn’t just a repository of football factories can make for a softer landing. Indeed, UConn is believed to be exploring the possibility of an ACC leap. Last month we wondered who’d stay in Swofford’s league. Today we ask: Who else wants to join?
As an old college basketball hand, I’m encouraged to be reminded that football isn’t the driving force in every single matter pertaining to collegiate sports. (As a pragmatist, I’m also more than a bit surprised.) And if I’m Swofford, I wouldn’t stop here: I’d go hard at UConn and Louisville or even Kansas and brand this conference in hoops as the SEC has in football — as the standard so golden everyone else is trading in bronze.
Oh, and I have a message for Dan Radakovich, the Tech AD. The next time your phone rings, it will be Brian Gregory. He hasn’t yet coached a basketball game for you, and already he wants a raise.
By Mark Bradley
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353 comments Add your comment
Yeah..Right
September 19th, 2011
5:31 pm
@TexGT
I wouldn’t rule out GT coming back home to the SEC. If it happens, it will probably be accompanied by Vandy leaving the SEC for the ACC.
Who knows? This is all crazy nonsense and I really wish that it was not happening — but it is.
techfan
September 19th, 2011
5:32 pm
Hide and watch my friend.
Hide and watch.
Really, this is the best response you could come up with? I have no idea why i’m even debating with you.
Yeah..Right
September 19th, 2011
5:34 pm
We’re not debating techfan, we’re just chewing the fat.
This ain’t debate team. This is just a sports blog.
I don’t know exactly what will happen, and neither do you.
cabbage10101
September 19th, 2011
5:36 pm
Bring in Penn State, ND, West Virginia and possible Rutgers and the super conference in all sports will be the ACC.
GetReal
September 19th, 2011
5:36 pm
Maybe the SEC was interested in ACC schools because it raised the overall IQ of the conference.
Yeah..Right
September 19th, 2011
5:38 pm
Yep. Especially the basketball recruits.
Yeah..Right
September 19th, 2011
5:46 pm
The SEC is making no attempt to poach ACC schools, but they’ll accept the ones with quality football programs — if, and when they are ready to jump from a sinking ship. If the ACC should become a power football conference (not out of the question), it will have little resemblance to the ACC as it currently exists.
Skeezix
September 19th, 2011
5:55 pm
Mark: The boys running the SEC think they can get UNC? Are they naive or on drugs? Won’t happen. The Big East always was a house of cards and it now will come tumbling down.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
5:56 pm
Enough of the 5th period study hall arguments. This is real:
“The University of Oklahoma’s board of regents granted school president David Boren the authority to take action regarding conference realignment on Monday.
“The move, just hours before their Texas counterparts were expected to do the same during a meeting in Austin, clears the way for the Sooners to apply formally to the Pac-12, with whom they have been undergoing discussions in recent days on how to make the schools’ addition to the conference work.
ESPN
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
5:59 pm
Mentioning ESPN gets me blocked?
Yeah..Right
September 19th, 2011
6:02 pm
@Skeezix
What’s a “UNC”? Is that sorta like the “AAU”?
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
6:04 pm
Okay, I’ll paraphrase it. Oklahoma has receive permission from their board of regents to take action on conference realignment. It occurred just hours before UT was to get the same go-ahead. The way is clear for Oklahoma to formally apply to the PAC-12.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
6:06 pm
Sheesh…apparently, “pack twelve” got me blocked, either that or oklyhomer or teckksas
Fortune Teller
September 19th, 2011
6:06 pm
The ACC will reach 16 with Penn State and Florida.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
6:07 pm
The Okies are free to formully appleye fer membershipp
TexGT
September 19th, 2011
6:10 pm
Yeah…Right –
I am not sure the GT brass would have the cajones to join the SEC – they seem perfectly content to follow ACC mediocrity.
Yeah..Right
September 19th, 2011
6:10 pm
Delbert,
I don’t think it’s always the filters. Sometimes a post just goes “poof” for no apparent reason.
Oh well… We get what we pay for, eh?
Supersize that order, mutt
September 19th, 2011
6:11 pm
Unless the SEC plans on paying the 20 million each to get them, no team from the ACC will be bolting for the SEC now.
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:13 pm
There are some massive idiots in here. No team from the ACC is leaving. They just upped the buyout from 12-14 million all the way up to 20 million. Every ACC president accepted this and voted yes without hesitation. There will be NO teams from the ACC leaving for the SEC. None of them WANT to go….they are not that stupid. Swofford adding Pitt and Syracuse, plus possibly adding 2 more from the Atlantic seaboard, gives him the right to re-negotiate the contract with ESPN. The ACC will NOT BUDGE on equal revenue sharing, which it should not, so for all of you talking about Texas and Notre Dame, stop it. It is NOT going to happen. TEXAS only cares about themselves and their network, they proved it last year when they toyed and toyed with the Pac10 and the Big 12 for months. The only way the SEC, Big 10 or the ACC will accept Texas is if they agree to share in the revenue from the Longhorn network, which Texas absolutely refuses. The blogger earlier who suggested Swofford should be fired….REALLY? The man, and the conference, just saved themselves. The ACC has 10 major FBS teams requesting to join as of last week, 2 already are now members. Instead of being fodder for others, they are the predators and have secured themselves for decades. Get some common sense, honestly. BTW…. Don’t see anyone beating down the SEC’s door other than TAMU.
As far as the idiots who continually bash the ACC and thier football stature…we are not at the level of the SEC and do not admit to be, atleast I dont. But we continually bridge the gap and are almost there. As of this week we have 5 ranked teams. The SEC has 6. Speaking collectively, we(FSU) took the #1 team in the country to the wire with our backup QB and were in the game all the way til the end. We just defeated the 2010 national champions, from the SEC no less. We hosted 4 ranked teams and went a very respectable 2 and 2 this past weekend. South Carolina, the darlings from the SEC East, barely beat Navy(running a high school option as so many of you Dawg fans love to put it). Navy gave USC everything it could handle. Troy just gave #14 Arkansas all it oould handle, at home and even out gained them in total yardage. Georgia Tech is #1 in multiple statistical catogories with their “high school” offense, and have not played a FCS team like so many SEC teams already have, but 3 FBS teams, one of them in the Big 12, who they lost to last year. If you take the SEC top 5 teams in Florida, LSU, Alabama, South Carolina, and Arkansas and put them against the top 5 ACC teams in Florida State, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, and Clemson, we would do no worse than 2-3 and maybe even pull an upset and go 3-2. Stop acting like you guys are the cream crop of the world, because you are most certainly not. NO ONE FROM THE ACC WANTS TO GO TO THE SEC. Get over it already.
Supersize that order, mutt
September 19th, 2011
6:14 pm
Sure would be interesting to know who the other 8 schools are who have expressed interest in joining the ACC. I’d be willing to bet they are more desirable than UConn and Rutgers, or those two would probably have been accepted initially. Wonder if Swofford is now holding out for somebody really big.
Yeah..Right
September 19th, 2011
6:14 pm
@TexGT
I dunno. I don’t really want to bash GT. Hell, they’re off to a pretty good start this season. Did you know they’re ranked?
Every school is going to have to decide for themselves what is in their best long-term interest. There’s a lot of confusion out there right now. I don’t envy any of the Presidents having to make these decisions.
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:15 pm
TexGT….Georgia Tech has the foresight and intelligence NOT to join the ACC. Just as the ACC will never accept Texas until it decides to share in what it so desperately demands to control.
Bubba Gump
September 19th, 2011
6:17 pm
Simple is as simple does.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
6:17 pm
Yeah..Right – There seems to be no root cause for my posts simply disappearing. I think it’s beady-eyed interns most of the time. I may have to resort to cockney rhyme-slang.
Supersize that order, mutt
September 19th, 2011
6:17 pm
Simple Techster, I think you mistyped something there. Check it and retype it; I’m not sure what you were saying.
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:19 pm
I’ll get right on that….
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
6:19 pm
Yeah…Right – my response to your response just got blocked. It’s a mystery. I may have to try Morse code.
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:20 pm
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:15 pm
TexGT….Georgia Tech has the foresight and intelligence NOT to join the SEC. (WHOOPS) Just as the ACC will never accept Texas until it decides to share in what it so desperately demands to control.
Yeah..Right
September 19th, 2011
6:20 pm
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!
I’m outta here guys. Have a nice day, and be sure to attend the Baptist Church of your choice next Sunday!
GTRay
September 19th, 2011
6:21 pm
Mr. Bradley, you may already know this, but Syracuse was a member of the Association of American Universities (AAU) until earlier this year.
If the possibilities for expansion legitimately include schools outside the Big East like Penn State and Kansas, I would definitely go after them as #15 and #16 (and BTW, both are members of the AAU).
P.S. Before the Big 10 added Nebraska, every school in the conference was a member of the AAU. Apparently, the conference was looking at more than academics.
ACC Rules in Life
September 19th, 2011
6:23 pm
Sorry Mark! Louisville is simply rated to low academically to fit in ACC. They do fit the SEC mold but of course they already have KY. That leaves Louisville heading up remnants from the old Big East/Big XII. UConn and Kansas…maybe. Rutgers is another maybe. But FSU is really fighting for better football teams.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
6:23 pm
Supersize – kusports.com suggests that it may be KU, based on a link from Sugiura’s blog.
Supersize that order, mutt
September 19th, 2011
6:24 pm
Simple Techster, thanks. I thought that was what you meant
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:24 pm
Thank you Supersize, for pointing that out….
Supersize that order, mutt
September 19th, 2011
6:25 pm
Delbert, I just don’t understand why? WAY TOO FAR to go. I like what I saw earlier about PSU bolting the Big10. But I would also like USF or UCF, and I would think FSU might like any of those choices.
Supersize that order, mutt
September 19th, 2011
6:25 pm
no prob, Simple
ormewood
September 19th, 2011
6:26 pm
Simple Techster,
I admire your passion, but regarding Georgia Tech’s schedule, they have played 2 FBS schools, and one FCS school in Western Carolina. They have not played three FBS teams to date.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
6:27 pm
Maybe it’s Penn State, Pitt’s rival (along with Maryland, years back). Why would they leave the Big Ten, though? I’ve got to follow up on that lead…
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
6:29 pm
Google Penn State ACC, and there is an article in the Scranton Times
Aaron
September 19th, 2011
6:30 pm
at this point I think U Conn makes the most sense to be # 15. For #16 I think Louisville is a better overall fit than Rutgers, USF, or West Virginia. The NY/NJ TV market is attractive but athletically they are a mess.
TexGT
September 19th, 2011
6:30 pm
Simple Techster –
I do not understand how Pitt and SU improve the ACC’s football profile at all. It is convenient that Swofford says “10 major FBS teams” are requesting admittance, but then leaves out who…if this ten includes St. Mary’s women’s college, then who cares? There is not point in adding crappy teams just to add them. Other conferences are looking at quality teams, while we just look for quantity. We should have a higher standard than that.
Regarding Texas – UT has already conceded it will not be able to keep all the revenues from the LHN for itself. It was looking for ESPN to work a deal between ACC and LHN. If Texas ends up making more money that other ACC schools, so be it. I guarantee, overall, every ACC school would make alot more money adding Texas than SU and Pitt, due to the Texas TV market and prestige in renegotiation with ESPN. When the overall numbers work, let Texas have a little extra. Texas is also a much better school than Pitt or SU. Bringing in Texas gives the ACC that extra pop and credibility it desperately needs – adding Pitt or SU is a comparatively a joke.
And I don’t agree with bridging the gap with the SEC. When we finally have a good number of teams ranked at the end of the year, actually win a BCS bowl, etc, then I will agree we are bridging the gap.
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:32 pm
My apologies ormewood, you are correct. Western Carolina is a FCS school, not a FBS school.
Delbert…I read somewhere that PSU’s closest road game is 500 miles away, and that Paterno has always considered his school an eastern school, not a midwestern school. Also, did PSU actually try and join the ACC in the early 80’s? Thought I caught that on ESPN.
I just can’t see the ACC having 15 members on the Atlantic Coast, and then one school in the Great Plains. Somehow, Kansas just doesnt fit.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
6:34 pm
A random thought just flitted through my brain. Why doesn’t the SEC look at TCU? They are about to be virtually homeless in the former Big East, and they are, by god in Texas, and near an airport to boot. Plus, they have a very attractive coach who would fit just fine as an upwardly-mobile SEC guy. Maybe a Spurrier replacement when the time comes.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
6:39 pm
Simple Techster – I read that, too. Penn State must have a strange schedule; how far is Columbus from State College? Every other year, that is. When I lived in the Philly area before moving back to Georgia, Penn State (along with ND, of course) was very popular there. Temple was a rival in Philly, but Pitt was *the* rival.
Ekim
September 19th, 2011
6:39 pm
According to FORBES, the TOP 5 Most Valuable College Football Teams in order are:
1. Texas
2. Notre Dame
3. Penn State
4. Nebraska
5. Alabama
It’s very unseemly to me that Forbes even considered producing a ranking such as this.
Let’s just pay all the players and call it the minor leagues. Problem solved.
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:40 pm
TexGT,
The ACC rides a fine line between adding quality schools, maintaining the brand and image they want to project, and trying to realize that football, no matter what, will always remain the cash cow of NCAA athletics. Basketball will always remain a strong but distant second. I believe the other schools are UConn, Rutgers, Penn State, East Carolina, WVU, Central Florida, South Florida, and Louisville. This of course is purely speculation.
ESPN reporting Texas and OU have been given authority to act on Big12.
I like how Mack Brown put it “Brown turned impassioned in the Big 12’s weekly conference call with the league’s head coaches and media. “As much as we talk about money,” Brown said, “as much as we talk about college football, as much as we talk about realignment, as much as we talk about great games, playoffs and all that stuff, we better go back and make sure that we’re taking care of the players and that the players and the high school coaches are always considered in the equation.
“Because if not, we’re not going to have a game, and they’re the ones that are playing. And, for parents to travel all the way across the country is going to put a bigger burden on them.”
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:41 pm
Delbert…
I think that the SEC should be paying more attention to Texas Tech than they are Texas A&M
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:45 pm
Syracuse has an all time record of 681-481-49 with one national title. They have promise….from Wikipedia…
In 2010 the Orange finished the regular season with a winning record for the first time since the 2001 season at 7-5, including road wins against #19 West Virginia and 2-time defending conference champions Cincinnati. The team earned its first bowl bid since 2004 and along with 2nd ranked Oregon and 10th ranked Boise State, the 5 road wins are the best in 2010 of all BCS teams. December 30th, 2010, Syracuse defeated Kansas State in the inaugural Pinstripe Bowl at Yankee Stadium. The game was televised live on ESPN.
floridajacket
September 19th, 2011
6:46 pm
While we are talking about universities the ACC should approach, we should mention an SEC school that has the academic, AAU, athletic, national championships in basketball and football, and regional, two in-state rivals that are already members of the ACC, attributes the Atlantic Coast conference is looking for. Plus they’ve seen themselves as outsiders in the SEC for over 40 years. Florida.
SimpleTechster
September 19th, 2011
6:47 pm
Pitt has an all time record of 671-483-43. They claim 9 national titles. They are among the top 20 programs in all time football wins.
Also from Wikipedia….Pitt has claimed nine National Championships,[1] and is among the top 20 college football programs in terms of all-time wins.[2] Its teams have featured many coaches and players notable throughout the history of college football, including, among all schools, the eleventh most College Football Hall of Fame inductees,[3] the eighth most consensus All-Americans,[4] and the seventh most Pro Football Hall of Fame inductees