Vulnerable, huh? The ACC crowns itself king of college hoops
"Roy, I really don't know how to tell you this -- but we've got company." (AP photo)
The ACC faced a choice: Eat or be eaten. The league opted not just to grab something at the drive-thru but to dine in style. Only days ago we wondered if this conference could survive in a world powered by King Football. Today we hail John Swofford and his associates as the new monarchs of college basketball.
Bradley’s Rule: Better to be the king of something than the earl of everything.
The ACC’s grand football experiment hadn’t worked. Adding Virginia Tech, Miami and Boston College didn’t hoist the ACC above/alongside the SEC. Truth to tell, the 12-team ACC was no better than fourth-best at football among the six BCS leagues. Worse, the ACC’s time-honored stock in trade had eroded to the extent that Duke and North Carolina has risen further above the basketball pack — North Carolina State reference partially intended — than ever.
The Big East now played better basketball, and several conferences played better football. What was to keep schools tied to Tobacco Road when other leagues came calling?
Be advised that the SEC has great interest in adding schools that can be deemed “flagships” in states that don’t already feature an SEC outpost. That would include three ACC members of more than a half-century’s standing — North Carolina, Maryland and Virginia. The SEC would have been happy to take two of those three and add Missouri to Texas A&M and become a 16-team league.
SEC commissioner Mike Slive is often described as the smartest man in college athletics, but here the ACC’s Swofford stole a march. He increased the exit fee for a school looking to leave his league to $20 million, and with the poaching of two Big Easterners he has lifted his league back to the top of the second-biggest college sport. Pitt and Syracuse have been known to play good football — Pitt had Tony Dorsett and Hugh Green and Dan Marino; Syracuse had Jim Brown and Ernie Davis and Donovan McNabb — but they don’t really change the ACC’s grid profile. They do, however, offer two more basketball tent-poles to array alongside Carolina and Duke.
With this move, the ACC cannot be viewed as prey. It’s a predator. If that sounds unseemly, so be it. To suggest that any conference should sit politely while every other league is grabbing hand over fist is to deny reality. The SEC and Big Ten and Big East would surely have made runs at ACC schools. What was Swofford supposed to do, play his violin while his league went up in smoke?
The ACC cast a cold eye on its assets and liabilities and saw a way to get bigger without necessarily getting better at football. That’s not bad form. That’s good business. And it’s clear in hindsight that we on the periphery undervalued another ACC selling point: It actually has good schools. Five ACC institutions — Duke, Georgia Tech, Maryland, North Carolina and Virginia — are members of the prestigious Association of American Universities, and Pitt makes six. (The SEC, by way of contrast, has three, and that’s counting Texas A&M.)
If you’re a college president looking to conference-hop, the thought of allying yourself with a league that isn’t just a repository of football factories can make for a softer landing. Indeed, UConn is believed to be exploring the possibility of an ACC leap. Last month we wondered who’d stay in Swofford’s league. Today we ask: Who else wants to join?
As an old college basketball hand, I’m encouraged to be reminded that football isn’t the driving force in every single matter pertaining to collegiate sports. (As a pragmatist, I’m also more than a bit surprised.) And if I’m Swofford, I wouldn’t stop here: I’d go hard at UConn and Louisville or even Kansas and brand this conference in hoops as the SEC has in football — as the standard so golden everyone else is trading in bronze.
Oh, and I have a message for Dan Radakovich, the Tech AD. The next time your phone rings, it will be Brian Gregory. He hasn’t yet coached a basketball game for you, and already he wants a raise.
By Mark Bradley
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353 comments Add your comment
The Truth
September 19th, 2011
3:37 pm
Wont shock me if ND and Penn State Jump to the ACC.
GTJeff
September 19th, 2011
3:37 pm
DP, all 12 schools voted UNANIMOUSLY to raise the exit fees to $20 million. Clemson, FSU & VT aren’t going anywhere. SEC needs to get WVU. Those toothless clowns would be right at home in the SEC.
GTJeff
September 19th, 2011
3:38 pm
Chris “academic fits” DO matter & your a moron for thinking otherwise.
GeoffDawg
September 19th, 2011
3:38 pm
GTJeff, as I alluded to earlier, Georgia is ranked ahead of many AAU schools by US News & WR. Learn to spell your name correctly and we can discuss this further.
ACCFan
September 19th, 2011
3:38 pm
Any thoughts as to what the new alignment may be without adding in UConn & Rutgers in the mix yet?
st1ng_em
September 19th, 2011
3:39 pm
GeoffDawg – I guarentee that UGA and Adams wants to be an AAU member.
TexGT
September 19th, 2011
3:41 pm
From all these posts, have we officially given up on football? All these new, shiny additions do is help with bball, in which we already had an extremely strong foothold. And anyone talking Texas to the Pac-12 wasn’t paying attentions – Texas specifically wanted to come to the ACC over PAC-12 because of the time zone differences. Texas had been in talks with the ACC on how to integrate the LHN, until the ACC unexplicably cut off negotiations to pick up two “quality” schools in Pitt and SU. We had a chance to pick up a Bentley, and instead purchased a Hyundai and Kia.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
3:42 pm
T3 – Hadn’t heard that about Penn State. I’ll have to snoop on that one.
As far as any schools leaving the ACC, that is not going to happen. The university presidents voted unanimously to increase the buyout to $20 million. One unnamed congressman whose school was left behind is making noise about antitrust and restraint of trade with these moves and also the prohibitive buyouts. Source is nytimes.
ACCFan
September 19th, 2011
3:44 pm
Given up on football?
Not me!
Especially with Georgia Tech rolling up 768 yards of offense and 604 rushing yards on 50 attempts last Saturday.
GT Alum
September 19th, 2011
3:44 pm
T3 -
If Swofford can pull that off, the ACC could be battling the PAC as the winners of the superconference expansion push. (I exclude the SEC as they’re already viewed as the most powerful conference, so it would be hard for them to “win” in this expansion, no matter how well they do.)
Back to Football then....
September 19th, 2011
3:45 pm
We could add Texas & Notre Dame.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
3:47 pm
I think it’s conjecture, but FOX Sorts South has an article about Penn St. and Notre Dame, and the logic behind it. Here’s a quote:
“Obviously, adding Penn State and Notre Dame would give the league an explosion in the number of households it can get an ACC network into. ACC teams would then reside in the third-most populated state (New York), fourth-most (Florida), sixth (Pennsylvania), ninth (Georgia), 10th (North Carolina), 12th (Virginia), 14th (Massachusetts), 16th (Indiana), and 19th (Maryland). Cash registers at the ACC offices in Greensboro would break.”
Reality
September 19th, 2011
3:47 pm
The SEC wanted many many of the ACC schools. They talked about Clemson, FSU, GA Tech, Virginia, Maryland, etc. However, the pitiful SEC fans and media will likely say the same things said when a recruit turns them down – “well, we really didn’t want them anyway.”
None of the ACC schools ever wanted to leave. This is why they voted 100% to raise the exit fee. If a school was thinking of leaving, why would they vote to raise this????
Do not discount the ACC in football. Heck, this year the conference is already making noise. The Atlanta area (to include the ajc) gives no respect to the ACC football, and that is just wrong.
The question now is, who will the 15th and 16th ACC team be to make the superconference?
LOL – maybe the ACC will go after some SEC teams? Let’s have the ajc do an article on that!
GeoffDawg
September 19th, 2011
3:48 pm
st1ng_em, you may very well be right. My point was that in all this expansion talk, AAU membership is being bandied about as if that’s the only mark of academic integrity.
Reality
September 19th, 2011
3:48 pm
We still need a 15th and 16th member. Texas and Notre Dame sound good to me…. if they can give up their own TV contracts.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
3:50 pm
Geoff Dawg -correction to ” $1 billion in 1968. ”
That was an egregious typo by me. I meant 2008, not 1968.
GeoffDawg
September 19th, 2011
3:53 pm
Reality, schools with eyes on leaving could very well vote with the majority because they don’t want to tip their hand and a dissenting vote wouldn’t make any difference in the outcome. The common word for this is “strategy”.
lawzoo
September 19th, 2011
3:53 pm
Yeah, a lot of “one and dones” in an irrelevant basketball league while stadiums stay empty in the fall. Sheer excitement. Makes me tingle all over. Y-A-W-N.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
3:53 pm
A poll of 100,000 Notre Dame alumni recently indicated that AAU membership would more important than their identity at the premier catholic university.
GeoffDawg
September 19th, 2011
3:54 pm
Thanks Delbert. a billion in 1968 would probably give you a bigger slush fund than NASA.
ACC > SEC
September 19th, 2011
3:54 pm
The ACC rules—best in the US in basketball and close to the SEC in football with all this new talent. The revenues will be through the roof for all the ACC schools!!!! slive got punked by the ACC!
Dooker
September 19th, 2011
3:55 pm
It’s amusing how UNC is labeled a B-only school. Last I noticed they have been playing some pretty good FB in Chapel Hill. Granted, they do have the premier BB program in the land. By this “either or” reasoning, other than Fl in the SEC, the rest of SEC schools are “either or”. Let UGa get a decent BB program and Im sure Mark Fox would argue against the “either or” position as well as the BB coach at Bama should they become relevant in round ball.
GT Alum
September 19th, 2011
3:56 pm
TexGT -
It’s kind of obvious why you wanted the ACC to add TX, and, yes, it would’ve been a good move in a lot of ways. Either conference will require a massive amount of traveling for Texas (although the PAC won’t require as much if it takes the other 3 Big 12 schools, and I’m sure some ACC schools weren’t thrilled with the idea of traveling to Texas. And, quite frankly, there’s no guarantee Texas wouldn’t turn the ACC into what it’s turned the Big 12.
Gordon
September 19th, 2011
3:56 pm
How good will the ACC be in basketball if it adds UConn?
But they are third on the wish list. The ACC will go after, in order, Notre Dame, Penn State, UConn, Rutgers.
Who does the SEC expand with now? West Virginia makes 14, but who is after that? Missouri, Louisville?
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
3:57 pm
Quote from a Penn State site: “The Chicago Sun-Times speculates that Notre Dame may join the Big Ten while Fox Sports South hopes that Penn State will jump to the new ACC.”
RRR
September 19th, 2011
3:57 pm
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, is in New Brunswick, NJ. and approximately 35 miles from NYC. Syracuse is in “upstate” NY and is around 250 miles from NYC. In other words, Syracuse is just as close to Toronto, Canada as it is to NYC.
GeoffDawg
September 19th, 2011
3:57 pm
Dooker, why don’t you ask Butch Davis about the current state of UNC football?
sidslid
September 19th, 2011
3:57 pm
Great move. Does WVU reconsider the possible SEC jump and join their rival Pitt in the ACC? Before scoffing at WVU academics, they have 20 plus Rhodes Scholars.
Wreck 'Em
September 19th, 2011
3:58 pm
I’ll be honest – I never even thought about the possibility of Penn State and Notre Dame joining the ACC…..very VERY interesting possibility.
reebok
September 19th, 2011
3:59 pm
I don’t think anybody’s going to leave the ACC…we add some combination of Rutgers/UConn/WVA and Louisville and we are set, the first 16-team superconference. North & South divisions for football…championship game in Charlotte each year…awesome.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
4:00 pm
Geoff – “Thanks Delbert. a billion in 1968 would probably give you a bigger slush fund than NASA.”
Right; Obama wouldn’t have had to cancel that moon-and-Mars program.
Gordon
September 19th, 2011
4:00 pm
“To suggest that any conference should sit politely while every other league is grabbing hand over fist is to deny reality.”
Correct, Mark. Would you please explain this to Jeff Schultz?
GeoffDawg
September 19th, 2011
4:04 pm
At 1.8 million per, he could put that money to better use by creating a whopping 556 new jobs! Economy saved!
Big Enos Burdette
September 19th, 2011
4:04 pm
Swofford ought to call Kentucky.
Yeah..Right
September 19th, 2011
4:09 pm
The ACC increased their buyout because they want to get something out of the deal when their three football schools eventually bolt to the SEC.
The SEC doesn’t need to invite them, because they aren’t going to stay in a basketball (and academic research) conference and settle for 10 or 12 million per year in television revenue when they can come to a conference that actually understands and appreciates elite football and enjoy over 20 million per year in revenue sharing. History has shown that premiere college football programs whither on the vine in the ACC. It’s just not a viable football conference. Never has been, and never will be.
Reality
September 19th, 2011
4:10 pm
The ACC needs to get the Alabama market. Let’s consider getting Auburn or Alabama.
Adding Penn State wouldn’t really add another market because we already have Pitt.
We should consider:
1. Texas
2. Notre Dame
3. Alabama
4. Auburn
5. Tennessee (new market also)
Any two of these would do!
GT Alum
September 19th, 2011
4:12 pm
Gordon –
Haven’t you learned that MB and JS have to write the two differing viewpoints on stories like this? It’s a well-established pattern.
ormewood
September 19th, 2011
4:12 pm
If FSU, Clemson, Va Tech want an easy path to the BCS, why wouldn’t they stay where they are in the ACC? Their school presidents voted to raise the exit fee to $20MM, so they’re not going anywhere.
DP
September 19th, 2011
4:13 pm
GTJeff, it’s “you’re a moron”, not “your a moron”. And by the way, you’re a moron.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
4:21 pm
Here are some facts: Based on 2008-2009 data, the federal government assigned 43% of the total $15.7 billion in research grants to non-AAU members. Florida State, for example is eligible for land, ocean and space grants. I don’t know if they are unique in that regard; I just read it on their web site last year. FSU is not an AAU member. The 61 schools who are AAU members got 57% of that research money. End of “the facts”; here is an expla nation, though simplistic:
Part of the evaluation is risk-based. Large research grants are often spread between multiple schools, and a major criterion is the universities’ financial footing as well as the ability to perform. Graduate students have to be hired, professors dedicated, equipment available, etc. The AAU members are used to working together and provide evidence of capability and financial stability.
The Big Ten accepted Nebraska last year as a member. All Big Ten schools are members. Lo and behold, Nebraska was voted out of the AAU by 2/3 majority in April. Egg on the Big Ten face. Nebraska said that the AAU didn’t allow enough credit for their agricultural research.
Chris
September 19th, 2011
4:22 pm
Thanks for the backup DP!
IL Jacket
September 19th, 2011
4:23 pm
Delbert, don’t forget about the Chicago market for any conference that has ND. Although not having a school in Illinois, if ND went to the ACC, there would be huge interest in the ND alumni in Chicago. A little like UGA, ND has a huge subway alumni group-in fact, I don’t have any statistics, but ND may be the most popular college team in Chicago and that is saying something here in BigTen country. Having had fun thinking about it, if ND joins any conference it will be the Big Ten and I put those odds as doubtful. That is where all of their historic rivalries, UM, MSU, Purdue are. I just don’t see them joining with anyone now.
Yeah..Right
September 19th, 2011
4:25 pm
@ormewood
Why do you think that the ACC Presidents felt the need to increase the buyout?
Could it have anything to do with this? http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/seminoles/fsu-preparing-for-realignment-possibilities-such-as-moving-1855047.html
Bobby Dodd
September 19th, 2011
4:26 pm
GeoffDawg – from Wikipedia:
The largest attraction of the AAU for many schools, especially nonmembers, is prestige for example, in 2010 a spokesman for nonmember University of Connecticut called it “perhaps the most elite organization in higher education. You’d probably be hard-pressed to find a major research university that didn’t want to be a member of the AAU.” Because of the lengthy and difficult entrance process, boards of trustees, state legislators, and donors often see membership as evidence of the quality of a university.
US News & World Report rankings are fine for what they are, but I think AAU is a clearly better indication of an “elite” academic institution. I know this doesn’t fit your “UGA academic excellence” agenda but I wouldn’t rely on USN&WR as the authoritative source on this one.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
4:28 pm
Penn State has a large following in the Philly area.
IL Jacket
September 19th, 2011
4:28 pm
Yeah…right, the delta for the football conference pales in comparison to the research dollars involved. Delbert, maybe you can help, but doesn’t Tech pull in like $500 million a year? The President and faculty are not going to do anything to upset that gravy train-like associating with a bunch of nonacademic institutions.
sharecropper
September 19th, 2011
4:30 pm
Louisville? Louisville? We’re talking Louisville? Doubtless one of those American universities you forgot to list. That’s embarrassing to the ACC.
Delbert D.
September 19th, 2011
4:33 pm
IL Jacket – I don’t see Notre Dame moving yet. They have turned down formal offers from the Big Ten twice. I lived in Waukegan while I was in the Navy, and that is my wife’s home area (Glenview and Chicago proper.) Mere coincidence, as we met in high school here in Georgia. Wherever there are Irish and Italians, there are Notre Dame fans. Philadelphia was no exception, either.
Yeah..Right
September 19th, 2011
4:35 pm
@IL Jacket
You’re right. Who needs sports, when you have AAU membership.
And here I thought that this was a sports blog. Guess I clicked the wrong link? Or perhaps all of this conference realignment brouhaha is really about suckling more research funds from the government teat? Some of you seem to think so.
ACC rules
September 19th, 2011
4:37 pm
Clearly, the schools with higher academic standards will choose the ACC, while the football factories with no academic standards will gravitate to the SEC. UGA is exactly where they need to be.