Of concern: The Braves’ playoff rotation is no longer a given
Jair Jurrjens after yielding one of three homers Tuesday. (AJC photo by Hyosub Shin)
The good news: The Braves will enter September not having to worry about making the playoffs. The less-good news: They’ll enter September with growing cause to worry over what might happen in the Division Series.
More to the point: Is Derek Lowe looking more and more like your Game 2 starter?
To recap: Jair Jurrjens hurt his knee and has been substandard — 33 baserunners in 18 1/3 innings, 11 earned runs — since exiting the disabled list, and Tommy Hanson is on the DL with a torn rotator cuff (but doesn’t need surgery). You’d have to figure Jurrjens will find himself over this next month, but what if he doesn’t?
Tim Hudson in Game 1: Any team could live with that. But the Lowe of 2011 hasn’t much resembled the Lowe of 2010. (Lest we forget, he was the Game 1 and Game 4 starter in last season’s NLDS.) His ERA in July was 5.86. His ERA in August — he’ll start tonight, so this is subject to change — is 5.18. Three of his past four starts have actually been good, but he’s 8-12 on the season with an ERA of 4.63.
By way of contrast, Brandon Beachy and Mike Minor both have lower ERAs than, er, Lowe. Both are rookies. Would Fredi Gonzalez choose Beachy and/or Minor over a 38-year-old who has made a dozen postseason starts?
September figures to be mostly for show standings-wise — the Braves trail the Phillies by 7 1/2 games but lead the Giants by 9 1/2 — but not pitching-wise. The Braves must see what’s left of their formerly formidable rotation. The ideal scenario, duh, would be to have Jurrjens, Hanson and Hudson work the division series against Milwaukee’s Yovani Gallardo, Zack Greinke and Shaun Marcum/Randy Wolf, but it’s unclear who’ll be ready/able by Game 1.
By Mark Bradley
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140 comments Add your comment
Wren Hater
August 31st, 2011
9:06 am
FIRST!!
(Unlike this Braves team Wren has compiled)
Wren Hater
August 31st, 2011
9:07 am
Why the heck have so many of our starting pitches been injured during the tenure of Roger “Kids Don’t Belong at the $@#$ Ballpark!” McDowell.
I don’t recall this many serious pitching injuries during the tenure of Leo Mazzone.
Mark Bradley
August 31st, 2011
9:11 am
Kudos, Wren H.
And pitchers do get hurt. That’s the nature of the game.
tulsabravo
August 31st, 2011
9:17 am
The Braves are going to make the playoffs?
Wren Hater
August 31st, 2011
9:22 am
Yes, Mark, pitches do get hurt, but it seems more pitches per capita get hurt under the tutelage of McDowell than under Mazzone. (Hey, you started this.)
A H-E-A-L-T-H-Y and viable Jurrjens would NOT have been serving up batting practice to the Nationals last night. If only his season long conditioning has been overseen by Mazzone rather than the pervert….
I pay a great deal of money for my Braves season tickets.
I want to see top-tier, HEALTHY pitching talent and not a M.A.S.H. unit.
(Watching the half-crippled 3rd baseman is depressing enough by itself.)
Wren Hater
August 31st, 2011
9:22 am
Enter your comments here
Braves
August 31st, 2011
9:22 am
It will be another 4 and done series in the playoffs. Milwaukee is on fire now and the team to beat. Will be interesting to see their 4 game series against Philly next week. That will be for home field.
coachx
August 31st, 2011
9:23 am
Start the young guns !
McCann just has to stay on Beachy about mixing up his pitches. He falls in love with his fast ball too often. He has the stuff to be a great one. The catcher just needs to help out the young kid with the pitch selection.
Minor has to start vs. the Brewers. They struggle vs. lefties.
jerry
August 31st, 2011
9:24 am
why does baseball have the dumb rule that you can’t play a team from your division in the first round?
chuckw/deadjournalist
August 31st, 2011
9:25 am
as i was awake with insomnia last night, i thought about this. (because when you can’t sleep, why not think about the braves’ rotation, right?)
as of now – and a lot can happen in the next month – i’d be inclined to go:
hudson, beachy, lowe
the nod going to lowe, based on the fact that he usually give you five innings of decent to good pitching. i don’t have stats in front of me, but his era from inning 5+ has to be much worse than 1-4.
while jj was due to regress to the norm, its hard to now wonder if he isn’t hurt. hanson can’t be counted on to be healthy either. minor and the rest of the young guys might be options, depending on how september goes.
Herschel Talker
August 31st, 2011
9:26 am
MB:
At this point, it should be Hudson, Beachy, and then ??? I mean, I don’t trust Minor yet, Lowe is still a mess, and Jurrjens is downright scary right now. Fredi is guaranteed to go with Lowe, the “safe” pick, but this pitching won’t last long in the playoffs if this keeps up.
At this point, if the season ended today, in which order would you pitch them/
HT
coachx
August 31st, 2011
9:26 am
Props to Frank Wren for keeping the top tier pitching prospects and not trading them away for a rental player. That Michael Bourne trade was genius. The Uggla signing is paying off too. He carried the team when Chipper and McCann were hurt.
dtanner
August 31st, 2011
9:29 am
philadelphia payroll 172,000,000,braves payroll 87,000,000,is one of the reasons i no longer watch baseball
Luman Harris
August 31st, 2011
9:31 am
Wren Hater has a foolish moniker. With the financial restraints in place from Liberty Media. Wren should be considered for Executive of the Year, not “hated”.
In the aftermath of the trade deadline, the man looks like a genius.
gtgoguy
August 31st, 2011
9:32 am
Actually, the Braves rotation sometimes is a good reason for insomnia.
Mark Bradley
August 31st, 2011
9:32 am
I’d agree, Manager Luman: Frank Wren has done a fine job.
Kendawg
August 31st, 2011
9:32 am
The Braves need a third baseman who can play more than 120 games a year.
I Love Frank Wren
August 31st, 2011
9:35 am
@Wrenhater…. you are an idiot. Period.
Marvin Mangrum
August 31st, 2011
9:36 am
Regardless of your name, regardless your fame, daggumit, if you get hurt and are out more than two days you need to go to the minor leauges and rehabilitate. Regardless. One week for hitters, two weeks for throwers. You should not get hurt be out two weeks then come back to the team not ready to preform at a major league level. They have all been as such. To a man.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 31st, 2011
9:37 am
I trust Beachy in Game 2. I don’t trust Minor (or Teheran or Delgado) in that kind of situation yet.
Hudson and Beachy and pray the weather ain’t peachy.
Iceman
August 31st, 2011
9:38 am
Lowe always gets better as the weather cools. By October, he will be ready for a good postseason run just like last year.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 31st, 2011
9:39 am
And count me in with the people who agree that Wren has done a good job. I didn’t like him for the first three years he was here, but he has consistently shown a willingness to take risks and the majority of those risks have panned out. Much better to have someone like Wren who makes bold moves and is willing to fail, than someone like Rick Sund who is content to sit on his hands and counts being just north of mediocre as a success.
Innocent Bystander
August 31st, 2011
9:39 am
Too late to trade him and get max value I’m afraid. But we still need to shop him in the offseason. We’ve got too many really good pitchers waiting for the chance to be in the rotation (Teheran, Delgado, Minor) to be spending too much money on guys like JJ who are good but not great.
the truth...
August 31st, 2011
9:42 am
Bottom Line is:
Either these guys don’t have it in their bodies….arms, legs, shoulders, etc.
or they don’t have it in their hearts…..
If their is no fire in their guts to bring it now, then good luck in October. Watching Jair’s starts since the break their is no way he could beat either Milwaukee or Philly now….and Hanson is no better.
If these two don’t wake up arm wise and head wise…..save your money folks cause it won’t be pretty.
NCBravesFan
August 31st, 2011
9:47 am
I agree on Hudson, Beachy for the first two games.
Fish Bisch
August 31st, 2011
9:48 am
First!
I Love Frank Wren
August 31st, 2011
9:48 am
I do believe Derek Lowe was horrible last year… until he became the best pitcher in baseball in September. Completely unhittable.
Jair hasn’t looked good since coming off the DL, but does anyone who actually watches the games remember Jair in the first half of the season?
Not saying either of these guys will return to their dominant form in the next month before the playoffs, but before we start throwing everyone under the bus, let’s take a couple deep breaths and just see how it unfolds.
All these negative people need to relax, maybe drink a cold beer, and try actually watching a few baseball games instead of picking up stats and news the next day and trying to second guess the team that is 9 1/2 games ahead in the wild card!!!!
I Love Frank Wren
August 31st, 2011
9:49 am
Go Braves
Double Zero Eight
August 31st, 2011
9:49 am
This pitching staff would be better under Leo Mazzone.
McDowell is a decent coach, but not as good as Mazzone.
Case closed!
Phillies, Class of The NL
August 31st, 2011
9:53 am
Its time to bury the braves. Prediction: The Phillies win the NL East by 12 games.
Sutton's Fro
August 31st, 2011
9:54 am
Of the so-called “Top-4″ of our rotation (Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Lowe), only Hanson is a strike-out pitcher. All of the others depend upon working the count and inducing groundouts. Given the middling defense behind them, that means a lot of work for our pitching staff. In the 1st half, even when they looked good, the starters worked 6 innings before Fredi went to O’Ventbrel to close out the game. But when he finally realized that he was going to need his bullpen well into October, he began to leave the starters in the game longer.
In other words, the natural tendencies of our pitchers, plus middling defense, plus a tired bullpen adds up to higher ERA’s, more extra-base hits, more panic in Braves Country. After the September 1st call-ups, our key starters will get some much need rest, and our young guns will get some valuable work in to ready themselves for the post-season. And sending out a rotation of Hudson, Jurrjens, and Beachy in the NLDS wouldn’t scare me a bit.
Phillies, Class of The NL
August 31st, 2011
9:54 am
The lowly braves continue to show why they are not yet ready for prime time. Losing to the Nationals in a division race? The braves are truly second-tier. But then again, everyone in the NL is second-tier to The Beasts from The East, The Philadelphia Phillies.
Sutton's Fro
August 31st, 2011
9:55 am
BTW, I meant that last thing as a compliment! (Should’ve said “worry” instead of “scare.”)
Sonny Clusters
August 31st, 2011
9:55 am
We was thinking if they don’t score runs it doesn’t matter who’s pitching. Leaving men on base is a problem for this team that needs to be solved. Alex Gonzales take note. Playing Jason Heyward ahead of Constanza means 2 fewer base runners each 9 innings. As for the pitching, just throw it up there and take your chances. There’s lots of pitching talent here if Fredi will use it. Jettison Linebrink, though. We was glad to contribute to today’s blog.
Marteen is a Ballplayer
August 31st, 2011
9:56 am
As much as I have not enjoyed watching Fredi G. manager this year, I will give him props with going with the best guy at the moment. Georgie received considerable playing time over Heyward. He left Uggla in as he thought that was the only solution, and it certainly was the right call. Perhaps Uggla’s was mental…Heyward is still working on mechanics in his swing.
What I’m trying to say is I believe he will bench Lowe. On top of that, I see no reason he would not go with Hudson and Beachy. I am no where near panic mode yet. Jurrjens stuggled very early this season, after the extended break for the All-Star game, the game after coming off the DL, and after a 7-day rest due to the rainouts in New York. I believe he will be in prime shape by the playoffs. If not, I believe Hanson will be recovered. As long as we have one of the two, we should be able to match up with anyone.
Ted M
August 31st, 2011
9:56 am
1. Hudson 2. Beachy unless someone gets hot.
Michelle Bachmann
August 31st, 2011
9:57 am
Maybe an ‘active God’ will send the Braves’ rotation a message.
PMC
August 31st, 2011
9:58 am
yawn. completely different season. We have no idea what they might be like in a month.
The Braves Rotation whatever it is will match up with Milwaukee’s. They will not match up well with Philly. Philly has purchased more talent. It is what it is.
The Braves are not going to win anything looking at it on paper except for the bullpen, but they have a solid team, and they certainly can win the WS this season.
I Love Frank Wren
August 31st, 2011
9:59 am
Amen
PMC
August 31st, 2011
9:59 am
Like every playoff run since 1991, the pitching will be fine. It’s always can they score enough runs that will be in question.
That, and will we finally leave the 3rd catcher off the freaking playoff roster?
Wren Hater
August 31st, 2011
10:08 am
“I Love Frank Wren” = Mrs. Frank Wren’s AJC Blog Name
I Love Frank Wren
August 31st, 2011
10:09 am
Thanks for proving my point
I Love Frank Wren
August 31st, 2011
10:10 am
Watch a baseball game sometime…
Remarkable
August 31st, 2011
10:10 am
For Kendawg and everyone who wants Chipper to go away, he only made 5 errors at third while Prado made 5 in 37 games.(Did you see the play he made last night?) Chipper’s average is 277 vs. Prado’s 267 and Prado’s average is going down every week (MB someone needs to write about Prado going in the wrong direction.) . I vote for Chipper to play in 2012.
Next year, maybe Wren can get a Short Stop, but until then let’s pull for the team that is playing everyday and winning games against the biggest competition.
extremus
August 31st, 2011
10:19 am
If it comes down to it, this is one place where you DO play the “hot hand” and pitch Beachy and/or Minor over anyone else (including Jurrjens and Lowe) who aren’t able to get the job done. A lot of folks tend to forget that Bobby Cox once went with an un-playoff-tested young rookie against Pittsburgh during the 1991 NLCS; his name was Steve Avery. As I recall, that turned out pretty well for the Braves.
Scores/Schedule/Standings/& Stories 8/31/2011 - Goodsportsart Blog = Baseball news and commentary
August 31st, 2011
10:20 am
[...] Atlanta Braves [...]
mountain_jim
August 31st, 2011
10:21 am
Najeh is right – compared to Sund, Wren is a masterful GM. FIRE SUND!
Space Monkey
August 31st, 2011
10:22 am
Bench JJ and Lowe. Start Delgado and Minor. That’s our best chance of winning. I’m beginning to believe that all those scouts and writers were right about JJ: He got lucky in the first half. He’s horrible. My sweet Lord if we can’t beat the Nats, how can we possibly beat the Brewers and Phils? It’s going to be a quick and painful October. Our bullpen won’t even be able to help us. The games won’t be close enough.
Joey
August 31st, 2011
10:26 am
I’m not Mrs Wren, and I think Frank Wren does more with less (payroll) than ANY GM in MLB. the only teams with more wins have 2 to 3 times the payroll as the Braves.
And remember, Dufus, hindsight is 20/20.
JackDennis
August 31st, 2011
10:27 am
Livan appeared to be throwing BP. But it was really the guy in white.
Philly Phanatic
August 31st, 2011
10:28 am
An earlier comment about the payroll difference induces a Braves fan to give up watching baseball when compared to the Phillies I agree to a point. I can remember 5-6 years ago getting on a buddy who’s a Yankees fan and I would tease him about with the Phils payroll vs. the Yankees, the Yankess were paying twice as much per victory. With the success comes higher payrolls. The Braves are loaded with young arms and current young players like Freeman, Kimbrell, Venters, Bourne, Prado who it’ll reach a point where they’ll be free agents and they came up with the Braves system except for Bourne so they are primary targets to keep and other teams will be bidding. It’s an unfair landscape and we all have Mr Senile up in NY to blame.
Henry D.
August 31st, 2011
10:29 am
The Braves are now officially in coast mode. They know they can’t catch the Phillies and they know that they are pretty much safe for the wildcard. I don’t know if this attitude is left over from Bobby Cox or if they got so comfortable knowing they had the “Big 3″ to keep them afloat, but everytime someone starts talking about having something locked up, this team just quits producing like they think they are good enough to kick it back in high gear when they need to. Remember the Division lead they had last year? Everyone started talking about how they had the Division locked up and noone could catch them and what happened? They went in the tank and blew a 7 game Division lead. And whatever happens, please, PLEASE do NOT re-sign Alex Gonzales. He has ersonally lost at least 10 games this year with the number of times he has come up with 2 or 3 runners on base and either pops up on the infield, strikes out on a ball that is 2 feet outside or hits into a double play,
NagoyaBrave-Falcon-Hawk-in-that-order
August 31st, 2011
10:29 am
So can’t wait till next year when we have Beachy & Medlin, Minor, Teheran, and Hudson as our guys. Put DLowe on the downlow in the bullpen. Let’s start now Fredi! Pitch these kids and let all but Hudson warm the bench, cause they’re old, they’ll need something warm to sit on come October.
Rev Buddy Greene
August 31st, 2011
10:32 am
Mark were u sitting near me at the Ted last night?Before the game started i was talking about who would start against marcom./grenkie in 1-2 in milwaukee…We decided that Tim Hudson is obvious for game 1 but game 2 was a toss up….after getting a few innings in we all agreed that JJ was not the answer in Miller….I am thinking it may be Beachy then Lowe in game 3.
what people are not mentioning is when JJ dealing early in the season he admitted he had lost velocity on his fastball…the same exact thing mike gonzalez said b4 Bobby sent him to dr Andrews
NagoyaBrave-Falcon-Hawk-in-that-order
August 31st, 2011
10:32 am
Henry D- Gonzales is our old school shortstop. How many incredible plays have you seen this year? I would, though, have him bat before The Wizard of Oz. Alex earns his keep. He’s the most reliable shortstop we could dream of having come playoff time. The bat? Oh, it’s the glove, just wait and see.
Bobby Coccyx
August 31st, 2011
10:36 am
They’re all good kids
PMC
August 31st, 2011
10:40 am
wait, so Philly lost to a team that can’t hit a lick in San Francisco last year and those bums are talking crap? Really??
Matt from MN
August 31st, 2011
10:49 am
I’m really beginning to wonder about Fredi Gonzalez as a manager. Why in the world would you use Craig Kimbrel when you’re down by 7 runs?
Mark Bradley
August 31st, 2011
10:49 am
I wasn’t sitting next to you, Rev. Buddy.
slidezz
August 31st, 2011
10:53 am
Rookie power go with youth Tough rocko’s D. Lowe you should be the long man
Youth has served the Bravo’s all year so roll the dice baby
Furman Bitcher
August 31st, 2011
10:55 am
Matt Kimbrel needs the work after being off for 4 days
slidezz
August 31st, 2011
10:56 am
I would love to see Fredi run Beachy out to the hill in game 2
Steve Bartkowski
August 31st, 2011
10:59 am
I am concerned about JJ. He’s not making adjustments, the hitters have. He’s not hitting his spots. The combination is killing him. I would start Beachy 2nd or 3rd, and consider Minor or even Therhan before JJ or Lowe.
Martini&Rossy
August 31st, 2011
11:00 am
say yea….
The Blue Indian
August 31st, 2011
11:01 am
Mark, your journalism frustrates the crap out of me sometimes. At times, your articles can be great. But it seems like the majority of the time, especially lately, your articles are always “in the heat of the moment.” Write something that contradicts popular thought! If the AJC pays you to generate page clicks or whatever, then go for it. But one reason why I absolutely admire DOB is that he generally goes against the grain in his reporting. Why can’t you do the same??
coach13
August 31st, 2011
11:04 am
Hudson, Minor, Beachy, Delgado. Don’t dismiss Tehran from a start. Delgado, Tehran, and Viscaino all have electric stuff and haven’t been seen much by major league hitters. Give JJ a chance but if he continues like this you can’t pitch him. Tell Lowe to buy a ticket
chris riviello
August 31st, 2011
11:08 am
the phillies are goanna kill the braves we have the best bull ben in the country and our line ups strong to.
ab initio
August 31st, 2011
11:08 am
“The good news: The Braves will enter September not having to worry about making the playoffs.”
The Giants are tanking. That’s the only reason the Braves are in the playoffs. They’ll be one series and done.
And why the hell is Alex Gonzalez “still” on this team? And Heyward?
chris riviello
August 31st, 2011
11:12 am
yea well i like the phillys and the phillies will probaly go to the nlcs and world series
Bill
August 31st, 2011
11:16 am
Forget the Braves, college football starts tomorrow. The Braves just don’t have what it takes to win a pennant. If Washington continues to kick your butt consistently then you have no chance of being a winner.
FSURob
August 31st, 2011
11:18 am
Regardless of the rotation order he sets, I hope Fredi will go with a 4 man rotation. Bobby got away from that and started using the 3 man, short-rest rotation. It’s been folly and a major reason we haven’t made it out of the division series in a decade.
mmck
August 31st, 2011
11:20 am
Ok, so we use the month of Sept to decide which pitchers can help us win in October… Can we at least make sure to get some, or all, of the young pitchers on the post season roster? If Teheran, Delgado, or Minor don’t start in October, have them ready to come out of the bullpen in the 3rd or 4th inning when DL, JJ, or TH start giving up a lot of runs! I’d hate to lose in the first round because we gave up 5-6 runs a game and had all the young bucks sitting at home waiting until 2012.
markie mark
August 31st, 2011
11:22 am
@chris riviello….Best Bullpen? maybe you need to look at our bullpen era again….
papadawg
August 31st, 2011
11:25 am
Playoff rotation? I really don’t think they’re playing good enough to be in the playoffs
Datominator
August 31st, 2011
11:26 am
Wasn’t Leo’s reputation built mainly on being lucky enough to have three Hall-of-famers on staff and Ted Turner’s deep pockets to grab viable back-end guys? Not saying the guy was a bad coach, but I would think a lot of pitching coaches would look pretty good with the benefit of those factors, as he himself has indicated. In interviews with Maddux/Smoltz, it almost seems like they feel they knew what they were doing and kind of blocked Leo out at times, without wanting to come right out and say it. I think McDowell has been fine, apart from his temporary insanity in San Fran (and you KNOW he was being baited hard – who goes out and hires Gloria Allred because some coach cursed at them?)
Nova Scotia Steve
August 31st, 2011
11:26 am
I’ll remind everyone here the Braves are 24 games above .500.
Tanking or not the Giants/Cards/Reds or whoever would have to play near .580 or .600 ball to contend with the Braves. It’s not an easy thing to do.
Give the Braves some credit for being in the position they are in with 29 games left to go….However I am concerned with the rotation…not panicking just concerned.
Hanson and Jurrjens are the key to our play-off. We need at least one of those guys to return to form. I don’t expect much out of Hanson for the remainder of this season so the pressure lies directly on Jurrjens – and maybe he feels it.
I think you’ll see the rotation bare down and put in a string of solid starts when we face the Phillies/Cards next week. Just need a leader to step up
IE Hudson, Lowe
dtanner
August 31st, 2011
11:26 am
someone mentioned leo mazzone in an earlier post,about him being so great,hell you give me smoltz,glavine and maddux in their prime i would have looked like a genius also,remember leo did’nt look so bright at baltimore
excueses excuses
August 31st, 2011
11:27 am
LOL…tell your own team to learn how to sell out your own stadium on 100+ home games like the Phillies’ and invest those $$$ into great players ok? jealousy jealousy that what it is
chris riviello
August 31st, 2011
11:29 am
there unstoppable
bro
August 31st, 2011
11:31 am
Fredie G needs to remember that this game is about winning and not about playing your veterans like Cox always did. Prime example: Last year Cox played Lee at first when he could have put Freeman on first. Lee was hurt when the Braves got him from Chicago–because he was a veteran–and stayed hurt and mostely unproductive. Cox lost a lot of games because he was always a players manager and not a team manager. You have got to bite the bullet at times and go with the young guns. Anything would be better than a sore knee pitcher. And why leave him in until the team knows they are out of the game. MANAGE FREDDIE–DON’T FOLLOW THE OLD GOOD GUY RULE.
chris riviello
August 31st, 2011
11:32 am
markie mark the phillies bullpen is way better then the braves. the braves are good but the phillies are way better maybe u should take a look at our bullben stats
chris riviello
August 31st, 2011
11:33 am
thank you excueses excuses
chris riviello
August 31st, 2011
11:34 am
Enter your comments here
dawg-bone
August 31st, 2011
11:34 am
Wren H has good points and season tickets so he has a right to bitch…Wren lover, where are your season tickets?..in front of the TV.
I think Wren has done a good job but I don’t agree with everything he does…
as for Wren Lover..I’ll save that for my wife.
chris riviello
August 31st, 2011
11:35 am
and i would like to see the braves beat the brewers
braves 2012
August 31st, 2011
11:39 am
as much as i hate to say it…..we need lowe more than anything of them. he is a sinker ball pitcher….which would be great in play-offs……this team really won’t prevail without lowe pitching great the rest of the way OR a rookie pitching above his own level… beachy is a great game 3 pitcher though.. in atlanta…home crowd…he would be fine
dawg-bone
August 31st, 2011
11:41 am
d tanner..Leo didn’t have crap to work with in Baltimore…u can’t make chicken salad out of chicken crap..
I’d take Leo back in a heart beat..all the Braves did when he was here was WIN!..thats what its all about.
SG10
August 31st, 2011
11:43 am
Braves pick up Matt Diaz? – reported on ESPN. I would have much preferred Infante but Diaz is okay too.
The Blue Indian
August 31st, 2011
11:45 am
The Braves just acquired MATT DIAZ!
Welcome back, Matty!!!!
Space Monkey
August 31st, 2011
11:46 am
Datominator: Leo did not just pluck Smoltz, Glavine, and Avery out of the air. He helped mold them into the pitchers they became. Also, don’t forget about Millwood, Burnett, Wright, and other pitchers he helped develop or reclaim off the scrap heap. The conventional wisdom now is that Leo lucked into Hall of Fame pitchers. The truth is that he helped build two of them. Maddux, well…Maddux was a gift from the baseball gods.
CJammin
August 31st, 2011
11:47 am
@Phillies, Class of the NL East
You do realize the Braves and Phillies are tied head-to-head don’t you? Yeah the Nats have our number for whatever reason, but that has nothing to do with the fact that the Braves are the second best team in the NL and have proven they can take the Phillies. I wouldn’t act so cocky. The Braves have owned Halladay and Lee this year.
dawg-bone
August 31st, 2011
11:49 am
Diaz is under contract for next year at 2 million..who did Braves give up…..
honest_abe
August 31st, 2011
11:49 am
frank wren is the man! besides getting peanuts for yunel he’s been fantastic.
got to go with the young kids. hope they go 6 strong and then turn it over to our bullpen. it’s the only way we can compete with milwaukee. jj’s fastball looks like a changeup. lowe isn’t dependable.
huddy, beachy, minor.
STEELY DAN MAN
August 31st, 2011
11:51 am
WOW ….. I love Matt Diaz …… But Infante even more !!!!!!!!!!!
dawg-bone
August 31st, 2011
11:52 am
Diaz hitting 258 and no homers this year..not much help !!!!!!!!!
Mark Bradley
August 31st, 2011
11:53 am
In a related development, the Braves have acquired Matt Diaz for a player to be named. I do not believe, however, the Braves are counting on Diaz to pitch.
STEELY DAN MAN
August 31st, 2011
11:54 am
Matty Diaz is more relieved and happy about being back w/ the Braves …. than the Braves & We are !!!!
Brave Hokie
August 31st, 2011
11:56 am
I agree with FSURob
If the Braves can’t squeeze out a winning record versus the sorry a$$ Mets or Expos, forget about Oct baseball…
Reason
August 31st, 2011
11:58 am
The Braves are looking more like a bunch of beat up losers. They are done for the season and forget the playoffs.
They can’t beat the bad news bears.
Mark Bradley
August 31st, 2011
11:58 am
Matt Diaz in 2011: No homers, 19 RBIs, a .259 batting average.
Dirty Dawg
August 31st, 2011
11:59 am
They’ve got to get ‘the kids’ as many chances to see what they can do against MLB hitters as they can in September…at the same time they’ve got to make sure our current group of ’starters’ don’t become, completely, rust-laden. Why not say ‘to hell with pitchers’ W/L stats’, take seven or eight, or ever how many, guys and treat it like Spring Training – 3, 4 or 5 innings each to make sure everybody gets a good ‘look-see’ between now and when the rosters have to be set.
JJ is toast. I don’t know if it’s his knee, his arm, or his head, but he’s nowhere near the pitcher he was or the pitcher we need. Maybe the Detroit scribe was right, he’s been doing it with smoke and mirrors and they’ve all figured out what the ‘trick’ is – he can’t fool anybody and he can’t throw it past anybody.
Hanson needs to be shut down as well…and put on a program to change his delivery. The way he uses, or more to the point ‘fails’ to use, his legs and body in throwing the ball puts way too much stress on his shoulder. If he tries to come back this season it’s just gonna make it worse.
Say what you want to but Derek Lowe is a warrior and can give us five or six great innings each time out – trouble is we never know which five or six it’ll be – but he needs to be in the mix. The rest, Hudson, Beachy, Minor, Delgado, Teheran and ever how many others we got left that we pay to be a starting pitcher, need to be scrutinized closely over the next four weeks then give the best ‘uns the job in the post season – that assumes we make the post season.
heartofdarkness
August 31st, 2011
11:59 am
Might want to wait until three weeks done into September to worry about playoff rotation. Things may look entirely different then.
dawg-bone
August 31st, 2011
12:03 pm
Pirates get player to be named later and paid Braves Cash to off-set his 2012 salary of 2 million.
pirates were as glad to get rid of him as he was to leave.
Casey Stinkle
August 31st, 2011
12:06 pm
Right now, the only starters to trust are Hudson, Beachy, Minor, and sometimes Lowe. JJ has lost it, and should be the #5 starter. I know Beachy and Minor are somewhat green, but they are definitely way ahead of JJ. In the playoffs, i would send Lowe to the bullpen, and JJ as well (long relief). I think this team has a chance with Hudson, Beachy, and Minor. Hanson is good, but still somewhat of a question mark.
Ron Roberts
August 31st, 2011
12:06 pm
The beauty of this assemblage is this….
Say you go with Hudson, Lowe and Hanson or Jurrjens as your starting three.
You have Beachy, Minor and Jurrjens/Hanson as options should things get dicey. You have an abundance of situational bullpen arms to come in if a starter gets in a jam and we need a lefty or a righty or a groundball/double-play. Then you bring in one of the “second-tier” guys to go 3-4 innings and give your offense a chance to climb back into the game before you hand the game off to Venters and Kimbrel.
We are the ONLY playoff team that will have that sort of depth in our pitching staff. There’s something to be said for that; with a comfortable wild-card lead, I don’t see a problem with letting Lowe and Jurrjens (and Hanson, if Dr. Andrews says it’s okay to come out and play) work on getting their mechanics right before October. I remember a St. Louis Cardinals team that rode on the back of a rather pedestrian Jeff Weaver, who miraculously found his groove, and Jeff Weaver was nowhere near the pitcher then that Derek Lowe, Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurrjens are, when healthy.
Mitchell
August 31st, 2011
12:14 pm
The real story from last night at the Ted?
Two runs on five hits.
There are other concerns regarding the Braves. JJ’s recent struggles can hardly compare to Alex Gonzalez’s continued futility at the plate not to mention Jason Heyward’s shocking downward spiral offense, not to mention also his poor defensive play in right field for pretty much all of his so far brief career.
Additionally, I think we should all be very worried about Dan Uggla specifically following in the hallowed October footsteps of Gary Sheffield and JD Drew.
Memo to Braves clubhouse manager: Bring extra diapers for trip to Milwaukee just in case.
Oh yea
August 31st, 2011
12:15 pm
& Jurrjens could start by getting that WTF look off his cherubic face…
& PITCH.
maybe Scott Boras is going to pay you 15 mill a season, but the Braves sure the he11 ain’t…
JASon
August 31st, 2011
12:17 pm
“The weekend starts early with Braves, Falcons and Tech playing downtown Thursday, and Cirque de Soleil in Gwinnett.”
Is this some kind of joke? Yeah, that Cirque du Soleil is really gonna snarl traffic for miles and miles and miles and miles
DawgDad
August 31st, 2011
12:20 pm
Well, duh. Pitching is fickle, here today, gone tomorrow. It’s really a shame we may not get to see what a rotation of Hudson, Hanson, JJ, and Lowe could do in the playoffs at their peak, but that’s baseball. Yes, Wren deserves a ton of credit for landing Bourn while keeping his young guns in the fold.
September should be an open audition for spots in the playoff rotation. Right now, I’d go with Hudson, Lowe, Beachy, and Minor, but I want to see what the kids can do. If Teheran gets a handful of starts and looks good I would not hesitate to start him in the playoffs. I don’t think the Braves can count on anything at all from JJ or Hanson (as of now I wouldn’t put either on a playoff roster), but if they pitch themselves back into the mix that would be just fine, they do have a nice track record when healthy (it’s clear JJ is not 100%).
Mitchell
August 31st, 2011
12:22 pm
All the Brewers have ever done against Tommy Hanson is light his @$$ up repeatedly.
We’re better off without him in the first round, assuming we advance.
jerry
August 31st, 2011
12:24 pm
JJ: Pitching to contact.
Johnny DangerDawg
August 31st, 2011
12:28 pm
Unless all the veterans miraculously return to good health and good form, I say you give Beachy a start in the first round of the playoffs. You know the Braves are going to need him later, so let’s go ahead and get him accustomed to Playoff Pressure in the first round.
meh
August 31st, 2011
12:30 pm
Hudson and Beach get games 1 and 2. the Lowe only has to go 4 innings in game three and then we bring in Moylan (should be rehabbed and on the roster), Vizcaino, O’Flaherty, Venters, and Kimbrel for the final 5 innings. 3 game sweep, Division series won! Jurrjens and Hanson should hopefully have their crap together by the NLCS and the Braves are right back in business.
Ranger Randy
August 31st, 2011
12:42 pm
Go with the Young Guns…….and blow those Brewers away!
Stinger2
August 31st, 2011
12:45 pm
Mark: True the Braves lead the Giants by 9.5 games.
However they lead the Cardinals by only 8.5 games as of today.
cdog
August 31st, 2011
12:51 pm
FRANK WREN AND THOMAS DIMITROFF ARE THE TWO BEST GMS IN ALL OF SPORTS.THE BRAVES WILL BE IN THE WORLD SERIES REGARDLESS OF THE UMPIRING INCONSISTENCIES AGAINST.THEM.LAST NIGHT THE UMPIRE KEPT JURGENS IN TROUBLE BY NOT CALLING THE CORNERS.JURGENS HAD TO LAY IT DOWN THE MIDDLE TO GET A STRIKE.EVEN A SORRY TEAM LIKE THE NATIONALS WILL HIT BALLS DOWN THE MIDDLE CONSISTENTLY.SOMEONE SHOULD LOOK INTO THE UMPIRING IN THE LEAGUE
Atlanta Braves - World Champs - 2011 !!!
August 31st, 2011
2:21 pm
The Atlanta Braves Rank 15th in Payroll, but 5th in overall standings. Sounds like Wren Haters are just Straight Haters. I’m not a Wren Fan, but facts are facts. And baseball is the ultimate game of numbers.
Philly is paying $172M to the Braves $87M (virtually twice as much), but they are only 6 games up.
If the Braves Fans Would Sell Out Turner Field More, maybe we could get another Premier Slugger. Until then, Keep your trap closed and Thank God the Braves are doing as well are they are.
Accordingly to the numbers below, the playoffs shouldn’t be in the conversation. In fact, 4 of 8 presumed Playoffs Teams Have Payrolls Not in the Top 12. The Braves have a Good Front Office, good coaching and some talented, very dedicated players -with alot of heart.
Payroll Team Payroll Record Results
1 New York Yankees* $ 202,689,028 82 – 52 AL – E
2 Philadelphia Phillies * $ 172,976,379 85 – 46 AL – WC
3 Boston Red Sox* $ 161,762,475 81 – 52 NL – E
4 Los Angeles Angels $ 138,543,166 73 – 62 8th
5 Chicago White Sox $ 127,789,000 68 – 65 12th
6 Chicago Cubs $ 125,047,329 59 – 77 16th
7 New York Mets $ 118,847,309 64 – 69 13th
8 San Francisco Giants $ 118,198,333 71 – 65 11th
9 Minnesota Twins $ 112,737,000 56 – 79 16th
10 Detroit Tigers* $ 105,700,231 74 – 61 AL – C
11 St. Louis Cardinals $ 105,433,572 71 – 64 10th
12 Los Angeles Dodgers $ 104,188,999 64 – 70 14th
13 Texas Rangers* $ 92,299,264 77 – 59 AL – W
14 Colorado Rockies $ 88,148,071 64 – 72 15th
15 Atlanta Braves* $ 87,002,692 79 – 55 NL – WC
17 Milwaukee Brewers* $ 85,497,333 81 – 55 NL – C
25 Arizona Diamondbacks* $ 53,639,833 77 – 59 NL -W
Braves Fans: Try and be optimistic and appreciative. We have gotten way more than we are due.
And when our pitchers get back healthy, we will really be dangerous. I’m expecting an upset over the over-priced Phillies.
Braves – World Champs – 2011 !!!
Peter
August 31st, 2011
2:43 pm
I want Beachy in the rotation.
TruthSeeker
August 31st, 2011
3:01 pm
I’m a lot less confident about our chances of making noise in the playoffs than I was at the All-Star Break. Jurrjens and Hanson were looking like they were as good as any 1-2 punch in baseball. Now Jurrjens can’t get anybody out, and whether or not Hanson will even pitch again this year is unknown.
I still feel good about Hudson and Beachy. The way things are looking, that has to be the top two. The last spot should be an audition for the third and fourth spots. I hope Fredi keeps an open mind about Minor, because he is vastly outperforming Jurrjens and Lowe at the moment.
TruthSeeker
August 31st, 2011
3:02 pm
The last month should be an audition for the third and fourth spots*
the truth...
August 31st, 2011
4:04 pm
I’d be comfortable with Lowe starting as long as he has a SHORT LEASH…..PERIOD. I say 5 innings off hand, but even if it is only 3…DON’T LET HIM PUT YOU IN A DEEP HOLE…if he isn’t on…
If Freddie is going to try and get 6 out of him no matter what, then I’d rather have a rookie with some muster than tired arm D-Lowe.
oldmike
August 31st, 2011
4:25 pm
Magic number is 20. Might take a while to get there. JJ looks done. I am guessing there is something wrong with his arm. Velocity is way down. Hanson done. There is something wrong with his arm. Thanks G.. for the farm system. Can’t have enough pitchers. How about no starters? Just relievers going no more than 3 innings. Might be fun to watch.
J-bone
August 31st, 2011
6:00 pm
‘formerly formidable’… that’s awesome stuff.
Falcomania
August 31st, 2011
6:56 pm
Jurgens is done and you can stick a fork in him. He’s lost 3-4 mph on his fast ball and thats why his change up isn’t effective any more. His fast ball right now is only on average 88-90 mph. while his chane up is 84-85 mph. Not a drastic differance, but when his fast ball was 93-94 his changeup was hard to sit on. I’m not sure whats happened to him but he is avg. to below avg. right now. I would rather see Delgado and Tehran take his spot in the playoffs. If the Braves are smart they would trade him as soon as possible after the season. His trade value is plummenting.
Eras | NewsTrendr
August 31st, 2011
7:13 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Of concern: The Braves playoff rotation is no longer a given #Derek Lowe |
August 31st, 2011
8:22 pm
[...] Check out the original source here. [...]
Skeezix
August 31st, 2011
10:14 pm
I don’t feel as good about the starters (in the post season) as I did a month ago, but we got all September for starters Lowe and J.J. to get back in form. Then we will know more where we stand. Hanson to start is probably not going to happen. Hope we get Moylan back to help with middle relief and sometimes to pitch in the 7th or 8th.
Keith
September 1st, 2011
7:05 am
Unfortantely, the Braves always play to the level of their competition. Just glad the Nats and Mets aren’t in the playoffs.
I say Huddy, then Beachy, and maybe Lowe. We’ve yet to see what Lowe’s rest of Sept looks like , but he has been pretty well of late.
Don’t forget he was not only our best pitcher in Sept last year, but he was our best pitcher in the playoffs, too.
GO BRAVES
Keith
September 1st, 2011
7:07 am
Oh, and Wren should be GM of the year! He continues to do more with less.
RGP
September 1st, 2011
7:55 am
What happened to Delgado? He pitched a one hitter when he started for Braves last time and haven’t seen him since. I assume they sent him back to AAA. That said Minor and Beachy have looked pretty good.
UKUGA
September 1st, 2011
11:44 am
Lowe was great last September and October – and was fine last night.
Too early to write off JJ. No Mets or Nats in the play-offs.
AB*Nation
September 1st, 2011
1:34 pm
Would be good with the expanded roster to start seeing Delgado and Teheran w/ some starts (beyond doubleheader either is slated for against Mets). Delgado looks mentally tough and had one bad inning in 2 starts. Teheran did not look as good as Delgado when he came up,,so pressure of the show may be too much for him (much less playoffs) at his young of an age. Some kids just have “it” when it comes to pitching in big games and want the ball …others have the talent and need to wade in from the shallow end to build confidence the traditional way. As much as it would be great,,, I do not see JJ turning anything around ,, Hanson may be done (or continued ineffective) ,, so the question then would be Lowe versus Minor versus Delgado in a game 3 vs. Brewers. If Lowe regains September form you have the option to give him the hook in game 3 if things are rocky or after 5 innings regardless to pitch Minor or Delgado. As much I despise the Phillies, I would just assume see them knock Brewers down off their confidence perch + prove out that Brewers can be beat w/ good pitching (which Braves will bring). Wren has overachieved.
bvillebaron
September 1st, 2011
4:35 pm
Falcomania:
It would be nice if your critical post about Jurrjens (not Jurgens) would be factually accurate. JJ hasn’t thrown 93-94 this entire year. As he has mentioned on numerous occasions, he deliberatley decided to throw more 2 seamers at less velocity to try to be more consistent in the strike zone and get outs by pitching to contact. Funny, how his drop in velocity from years past wasn’t an issue for any of you critics when he was leading the NL in ERA before the Allstar break.
Obviously, JJ has struggled since and he clearly hasn’t been hitting his spots lately. Who knows whether he still is feeling the effects from his knee (as Rob Dibble insists) or whether he is just in a funk.
My own view is that he wasn’t as good as his sub 2.00 ERA suggested earlier this year and isn’t as bad as he has shown lately (the sabermetrics guys will tell you that he had an unsustainably low BABIP earlier this year and are probably right).
Despite the pitching struggles and/or injuries of JJ, Hanson and Lowe, the Braves went 17-9 in August and 7-3 over their last 10 games.
If this was the end of September I would be concerned, but this is September 1st and the playoffs don’t start for another month so there is plenty of time for the starters to right the ship (which hopefully is exactly what Lowe did last night).
Eddie B
September 2nd, 2011
10:20 pm
Playoff Rotation:
NLDS
GM1 Hudson- Ace of the staff
GM2 Lowe- Big game pitcher
GM3 Beachy- Better for him to pitch at home
GM4 Hudson
GM5 Lowe
NLCS
GM1 Hudson
GM2 Beachy
GM3 Lowe
GM4 Hudson
GM5 Beachy
GM6 Lowe
GM7 Hudson
World Series
GM1 Hudson
GM2 Beachy
GM3 Lowe
GM4 Hudson
GM5 Beachy
GM6 Lowe
GM7 Hudson
HJones
September 3rd, 2011
9:11 am
I’m still not happy with ALL STAR SECOND BASE PLAYER PRADO being rooted from his job by a player who did not hit up to par for weeks. It was a bad move by Fredi Gonzalez, and Prado has practically been neutralized.
Bradley gets paid?
September 5th, 2011
12:55 pm
Next Bradley article: ‘The sky is blue, and the sun is hot!’
chief pitchanono
September 5th, 2011
1:24 pm
These are big concerns, but fortunatley its the begining of September and not October. We have time to work allot of this out. I think Lowe is the key to our playoff success. He is known for being very good during at the end of the the season and playoffs and he is trending that way again this year. If he does what he normally does the Braves will be fine with him huddy and beachy. It would be great to get Hanson or Jurggens back, but they have to be effective to do us any good. The only way for the Braves to know this is to be able to get them in a few starts before the end of the season, so it will be intersting to see if that can happen. The worst thing for the Braves is for them to rush back and totally blow a playoff start in the short series. That being said they are a big part of the reason we are going to get in and if its possible they certainly deserve to be apart of the playoffs. Go Braves!!
Bourn Brave
September 5th, 2011
3:21 pm
First of all, new to comments so hey to all. Second, the braves should go with Hudson, Lowe, and Beachy in the division series. Idealy it would be Hudson, Jurrjens, and Hanson, but two of those three are hurt. Can’t mess around trying to pitch guys who might not be ready to go when the bell rings in the playoffs. Of the young guns, Minor would be the one I would pitch especially against the phillies’ lineup (some of their guys struggle vs. lefties). Otherwise, I wouldn’t risk putting them in high pressure playoff games just yet.
Steve
September 6th, 2011
11:43 pm
The Braves may go down as one of the greatest chokes in history. They may give up a huge wild card lead and not make the playoffs. They are playing without passion, like they are old and tired. Hard to watch.
randy_bottoms
September 7th, 2011
6:13 am
Wrenhater, you aren’t just an idiot, you are a baseball idiot. Was Mazzone responsible for all of John Smoltz’s injuries? I wish you would stick your season tickets in your stupid butt (you remind me of some frat boys that sat in front of me at a Braves game. They were yelling “go back to the minors” at Dan Uggla right before he went on a tear.)