Can the flagging ACC survive in a football-driven industry?
Georgia Tech celebrates the 2009 ACC title, since vacated. (AJC photo by Johnny Crawford)
The ACC has long been the nation’s most prestigious basketball league, but at a time when college football grows ever larger, basketball counts for less. The almighty SEC figures to try and poach a team or two from the ACC and the Big East and the Big Ten likewise could make entreaties. Is it possible that the ACC could, in the not-so-distant future, cease not just to matter but to exist?
It was in 2003 that the ACC snatched Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech from the Big East, which appeared bound for oblivion. But the Big East, in a deft bit of damage control, grew to 16 teams and became the nation’s best — as opposed to the most prestigious — basketball league. The ACC, by way of contrast, has reaped next to nothing from its expansion.
Since the ACC expanded to a dozen, only Virginia Tech has finished a season ranked in the top 10 of the final USA Today coaches’ poll, and in that span the Hokies haven’t cracked the season-ending top five. The SEC has won the past five BCS titles; the last ACC team even to play in the national championship game was Florida State in January 2001, which was so long ago Mark Richt, now the dean of SEC coaches, was the Seminoles’ offensive coordinator.
The ACC’s ballyhooed basketball has suffered, too. It has become a two-team enterprise: North Carolina and Duke have won three NCAA titles between them since expansion, but the last ACC school to reach the Final Four other than the Big Two was Georgia Tech in 2004. Even more distressing, seven of the 12 programs have changed coaches in the past 17 months.
Duke and Carolina stand as the two best basketball programs in the land — Kansas and UConn and Michigan State and Kentucky might quibble — but the balance of the league, once its regionally televised Thacker & Packer hallmark, no longer exists. Also gone are those days where every league game brought a full house at every arena. Five ACC schools saw decreases in home attendance last season, and three more had average increases of fewer than 100 per game
The question, then: If football tepid and basketball is top-heavy, what’s the lure of the ACC? Tradition, yes. Seven of these 12 have graced the conference since 1953, the year it was formed. Academics, sure. In scholastic terms, this is considered the most serious of the six BCS leagues. But are history and academics enough in a business where millions of dollars flow to the schools that play the best football?
The ACC is in trouble. Its image — and the ACC cares about image — has been sullied. Georgia Tech had to forfeit the 2009 conference title and was placed on four years’ probation by the NCAA. North Carolina has been hit with nine rules violations ranging from impermissible benefits to academic fraud. Miami could well get the death penalty in the wake of Nevin Shapiro’s jailhouse accusations.
If you’re Florida State … if you’re Clemson … if you’re Virginia Tech … if you’re North Carolina State … do you want to stay in the ACC and play Class AAA football if you have big-league options? (And surely some among those will.) Are ACC matters apt to improve anytime soon? Is John Swofford the man to save his conference in the way Mike Tranghese did the Big East? And if Swofford seeks to raid some other league before his gets raided, where does he turn? Nobody’s leaving the SEC, and who in the football-playing Big East might be amenable? Louisville? West Virginia? South Florida?
The ACC was a lovely idea more than a half-century ago: Schools of common interest in a tight geographic area. Over time, the conference has sought to broaden its base, which is necessary in a zero-sum marketplace. The reality, alas, is that the base hasn’t grown but thinned. This has become a strange-looking league with one toe in Boston Harbor and another in the sands of South Beach, and the football it plays isn’t very good. And football matters above all else.
By Mark Bradley
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397 comments Add your comment
Rich
August 23rd, 2011
12:49 pm
Boston College was top 10 in 2007 with Matty “Ice” Ryan
Skeptical Observer
August 23rd, 2011
12:49 pm
Yah, The Wreck to the SEC where they can battle Vanderbilt every year in the cellar…
Sim
August 23rd, 2011
12:56 pm
The only teams with chances of getting SEC invites are UNC, Duke, VT, and UVA. The rest of the ACC is of no use to the SEC and will likely become part of the new Big East. The ACC will be the next domino to fall after the Big 12.
Alfred Tillinghouse III
August 23rd, 2011
1:07 pm
SEC stands for Second-Rate Education Conference
DIT
August 23rd, 2011
1:09 pm
If the SEC must expand it should NOT do it with any of the ACC teams. Leave the ACC alone. FSU does not want to go to the SEC because they know that they can go back to owning the ACC. They would have a hard time winning consistently in the SEC and they and the fans know it.
SEC needs to get Texas A&M and Oklahoma and leave it at that.
DIT
August 23rd, 2011
1:13 pm
Imagine, the tech people, (Alfred) have no argument on football so they have to start talking about education……… It’s a football blog.
Plus- “SEC stands for Second-Rate Education Conference” I did not realize that it’s the SREC. Not only do you not have a foot to stand on in this blog, but know your speaking through your . . .! Get a brain and a life before you post.
Tom, Resident Georgia Fan
August 23rd, 2011
1:24 pm
Basketball is an irrelevant sport. If it ceased to exist, only certain types of sports fans would care. Get rid of it forever.
Dawg Trainer
August 23rd, 2011
1:27 pm
What? No mention of the Tennessee Tech Golden Eagles? Unlike Georgia Tech, Tennessee Tech knows their place (Ohio Valley Conference) and acts accordingly. Learn from them, Tech fans.
Or, maybe, we could REALLY go old school and bring Sewanee and Tulane back along with you guys. The ORIGINAL SEC, if you will.
Dawg8589
August 23rd, 2011
1:47 pm
One thing I would like to address is the idea of the SEC taking Va Tech because of the DC market. I think that Va Tech is attractive for various reasons, but the DC market is not one of them. Noone in the DC market could give a rats ass about Va Tech. It’s not like all the Hokie grads run up to DC looking for a job. There are just as many SEC grads from any school living in DC as there grads from Va Tech. If DC is interested in the SEC football, it is based on the merits of the play not that there is a team close by. Hell, Maryland is right down the street and still nobody in DC cares much more about college football.
I would like to see some intelligent points being made on these articles from time to time. If you are an SEC fan, you don’t need to waste your time with the stupid insults. If you are an ACC fan, you need to come up something better if you are going tout how academically wonderful you are.
DIT perfect example of the sec
August 23rd, 2011
2:10 pm
slightly educated crew
Whatever!
August 23rd, 2011
2:19 pm
ACC football is bad because, too much balance, no dominant teams
ACC basketball is bad because, 2 dominant teams, not enough balance
Do I have that about right?
Ess Eee Cee
August 23rd, 2011
3:41 pm
S pecial
E dumacation
C onference
Ernest T. Bass
August 23rd, 2011
3:45 pm
ACC football is bad because, too much balance, no dominant teams
ACC basketball is bad because, 2 dominant teams, not enough balance
Do I have that about right?
Yes you do.
Ernest T. Bass
August 23rd, 2011
3:46 pm
Graduation Rates
UGA 57 Percent
Tech 49 Percent
Beyond Graduation
August 23rd, 2011
4:09 pm
Starting salary for UGA’s 57 Percent —- 20K to 40K
Starting salary for Tech’s 49 Percent — 80K to 100K
Get your Hot Dogs and Hamburgers
August 23rd, 2011
4:53 pm
Your fans don’t trash the campus after every home game
so that again eliminates Georgia Tech from joining the SEC
HeeHawDawg
August 23rd, 2011
4:56 pm
Tech fans don’t watch Hee Haw, so they can’t be in the SEC
DungEatinDawg
August 23rd, 2011
4:57 pm
Tech fans don’t eat their own doo, so they can’t be in the SEC
CantReadDawg
August 23rd, 2011
4:57 pm
Tech fans can read, so they can’t be in the SEC
OneFingerTypingDawg
August 23rd, 2011
4:58 pm
Tech fans can type with 10 fingers, so they can’t be in the SEC
Dave F
August 23rd, 2011
5:39 pm
ACC best academics? With VPI, Maryland, Miami mong others? Oh come on…The Big Ten has better academics. The Big East does as well if you count their Basketball only members. Other than Duke and UNC where is this great academic tradition?
You give way to much credit to the ACC. They are extremely top heavy in Basketball and Football, if they can’t get West Virginia to join they are going to be even worse once the SEC raids them. And if the Big Ten makes a play for Maryland or BC, they will really be in trouble. Losing the ACC title game will cost them a fortune. Maybe they should do what the Big East did and try to get a Texas School.
Supersize that order, mutt
August 23rd, 2011
5:51 pm
Dave F, VPI, Maryland, and Miami all have better academic reputations than most of the SEC schools. Yes, Miami has their share of problems, but they have an outstanding school of oceanography and the university is ranked 47th in the country. Maryland is ranked 57th, only one spot behind Georgia. VPI is ranked 69th. You obviously don’t know what you’re talking abuot.
Supersize that order, mutt
August 23rd, 2011
5:54 pm
Dave F, you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. In the top 100 colleges in the US, Miami is ranked 47, Maryland 56, and VPI 69. Those three are all ranked higher than most of the SEC schools. Incidentally, Tech is ranked 35, tied with Berkley
Supersize that order, mutt
August 23rd, 2011
5:58 pm
Oops, my mistake, Tech is tied with UC-San Diego, not Berkley. But it might also interest you to know that UVA and Wake (both at 25) are ranked higher than UNC, who is 30th, not very far ahead of Tech, and yet Tech is engineering only.
Supersize that order, mutt
August 23rd, 2011
6:01 pm
Also, only Northwestern from the Big 10 and Georgetown from the Big East rank higher than UVA and Wake, and add in Michigan as the only other school from either the Big 10 or the Big East to rank higher than UNC, BC, and GT. So, yes, I’d say the ACC is known for its academics.
Druid City
August 23rd, 2011
6:04 pm
Apparently, Georgia Tech’s mid-tier engineering geniuses do not know how to spell.
Supersize that order, mutt
August 23rd, 2011
6:05 pm
See, Dave F., you don’t even know who the highest rated schools in the ACC are. Duke, UVA, Wake, UNC, BC, GT, in that order. And all of them are rated higher than any SEC school, all but one Big East school, and all but two Big Ten schools. And as far as the Big East schools go, only Georgetown is in the top 50, unless you count Notre Dame for basketball, and they are ranked 19.
Paul in NH (formerly RDU)
August 23rd, 2011
6:05 pm
Dave F
August 23rd, 2011
5:39 pm
ACC best academics? With VPI, Maryland, Miami mong others? Oh come on…The Big Ten has better academics. The Big East does as well if you count their Basketball only members
—–
Actually the B1G doesn’t have better academics than the ACC. Average USNWR rankings ACC = 49 B1G = 53
Miami (#50), MD (#53) are ranked higher than any SEC school apart from Vandy (17) and UF (47)
I love the comment about the Big East having better academics if you count their b’ball only members – as if all of those tier 3 schools aren’t real members of the conference. All 8 of the b’ball only schools are expensive private schools.
Hey – the SEC has better academics than most conferences if you only count their b’ball playing only member (that would be Vandy).
Greenhulk
August 23rd, 2011
6:30 pm
Folks, you better belive that if GA Tech wanted to come back to the SEC, the SEC would be interested. GA Tech is a founding member and there is a lot of old money and politics that could make that happen. The Big Ten has already showed an interest in Tech. Its a good match for the Big Ten academic standard and gives the Big Ten more access to the south’s bumper crop of athletes. The SEC does not want the Big Ten to have a school sitting in the middle of SEC country and that team located in the SEC Championship town of Atlanta. You folks keep fooling yourselves and ignoring the whole picture. Accepting GA Tech will make more since and more money in the long run because if the Big Ten gets its foot in the door down south, it will be just the beginning of the end for the SEC. This move would happen quicker than FSU or Clemson being asked to join the SEC. Slive is no fool, he will cover all the bases, not just chase a dollar. Look for a shake up before this season is finished.
Supersize that order, mutt
August 23rd, 2011
6:52 pm
Greenhulk, you are absolutely correct. Can you imagine the scrambling that would go on if the Big Ten actually did make overtures to Tech? Hell, even Vince Dooley would be begging Tech to come back, and he (whether he abstained or voted no) is primarily responsible for Tech being rejected the last time it was on the table.
Get your Hot Dogs and Hamburgers
August 23rd, 2011
8:45 pm
GT fans are not married to their first cousin
So that once again eliminates GT from joining the SEC
GT fans do not defecate in the school’s library halls on game day
So that once again eliminates GT from joining the SEC
Get your Hot Dogs and Hamburgers
August 23rd, 2011
8:50 pm
When a GT fan’s home gets repossessed, it doesn’t get loaded on the back of a flatbed truck
So that once again eliminates GT from joining the SEC
T Rea
August 23rd, 2011
10:57 pm
ACC adds UCONN, Rutgers, Pitt, Nova (if Nova wants to play big boy football) or
Cuse if Nova don’t want in. 16 teams, best Basketball conference in country, best TV market (sorry-East Coast bias is real) for Football and a wide recruiting base. This is the only way (also: plan if FSU leaves – add UCF for recruiting. If Clemson leaves – add anyone (L’ville / Cincy), what value do they really have)
Tech Forever
August 23rd, 2011
11:13 pm
I’d rather lose every conference game if we were back in the SEC than win another ACC Championship. I have hated the ACC since we got here.
SCBOY
August 24th, 2011
7:33 am
Well now. Seems like USC was well ahead of the curve back in 1971. Good for them. They have paid their dues and are now reaping the benefit.
Pat Varah
August 24th, 2011
11:19 am
Uh..regarding the first line of the story referring to the most prestigious basketball. Mr. Bradley, ever heard of this new fangled league called the Big East? By the way, begin to accept a merger of ACC and Big East football schools in three years
agmines
August 24th, 2011
12:25 pm
THE AUTHORS QUOTE, The ACC has long been the nation’s most prestigious basketball league”
Not anymore and has not been for over 10 years. ACC Basketball produces just 2 Teams of elite status in Duke and UNC, and the remainder 10 have changed coaches the last 3 years because they cannot compete against UNC and Duke.
A Two Team Conference is not prestigious or most prestigious in anyway. The Big East passed the ACC with having 10 to 12 Teams not just nationally competitive but ranked and going to the NCAA Tourney every year since 2005 not 2 or 4, so right off the bat the Author lacks the knowledge of the reality of ACC Basketball dropping off bigtime in prestige.
The Big East rules Basketball has seen in the Rankings, Tourney, and Coaches staying and winning not being fired or leaving like in the ACC. The Big Ten beats the ACC these last 2 years too in Basketball.
When ESPN provides the most money to the Big East in Basketball you know that to be true that the Big East passed the ACC years ago, and is doing it in Football too.
BJ
August 24th, 2011
1:22 pm
Supersize that order, mutt
You mentioned that VT is no where near DC and therefore does not have the DC market. True, VT is between 4 to 5 hours from DC but also has it’s largest alumni base there. VT does indeed have a sizeable chunk of the DC market. Richmond, Hampton Roads, and to a lesser degree Roanoke are also sizeable markets that VT brings to the table. With that said they have always wanted to be in the ACC and I don’t see them leaving. Football has a growing influence in the national conversation but it’s not the only thing to be considered. Academics, geography, and politics are also heavily involved. It was the governor of VA and UVA that lobied for Tech’s inclusion into the ACC.
Tom
August 24th, 2011
2:18 pm
Regardless of weather your an ACC or Sec fan it makes no sence for the SEC to poach any ACC team. They are confrences with overlapping fanbases and bringing in a new team from geographic areas you already have a foothold in makes absolutely no sence. This is about big dollar TV contracts and new markets not traditional rivalries. The Big East and Conference USA are the ones that need to worry because if the SEC or ACC expand it will come from them…or the SEC will poach Texas A&M and Mizzou/Oklahoma in the near future.
ACC will rise again. EVERY conference goes through ups and downs, dry spells and infractions/major infractions. The PAC10/12 went through it the Big 10 went through it so did the SEC and Now the ACC. We might all like to see certain additions and subtractions to our respective confrences but the SEC also does not want the Poacher rep and it has a solid product. There are good football schools in the ACC and the culture is changing and with new NCAA regs any confrence putting there weight in 2-3 schools is just a bad idea. A solid confrence from top to bottomn is more important long term.
Clemson will alwasys be competitive, Maryland is a rising 2nd tier school that can play for bowls and give a few black eyes, VT is always in the hunt and just needs to start off better, NC State rising again, FSU well everyone knows they are on there way back to being national contenders, UVA is doing a solid job of rebuilding and the basketball first culture in the ACC is shifting.
Clemson, GT and FSU stand to gain nothing by going to the SEC. A harder road to victorier….Why? People can argue my leagues tougher/better than yours all we want but ultimately its about being relevant after Christmas and they wont have as much oppertunity to do that in an already top heavy SEC. If the SEC goes and gets Texas A&M/Mizzou/OU/OSU then the ACC will probably go for PITT, UCF, ECU, Lousville or WV…maybe even the Cuse. Does that make us equal to the SEC…No but does it make us a solid BCS conference yes.
Personal hatreds and biases aside the only conference to produce more NFL caliber talent than the ACC has been the SEC oh and the ACC and SEC are the two confrences that schedule hellacious out of conference scheds on a regular bases so alot of times the early season record issues come to them because they dont schedule alot of Eastern Michigans.
If anything the BIG 12 will be dead in a few years but the ACC will be just fine.
Pitbull
August 24th, 2011
3:20 pm
Had to laugh at the once a decade revisit of Tech rejoining the SEC.
Tech left the SEC because they thought they were to good for the rest of the SEC and wanted to become the Notre Dame of the South. Didn’t work out for them did it?
They also left becauuse the SEC wanted to place a limit on the number of football scholarships an SEC school could offer and Tech was flush with cash at that time and wanted to keep the opportunity to buy SEC shampionships. Now they are as poor as a church mouse.
The no one came to their games (surprise) because who wants to go see a Tech – Navy game after years of Tech – Alabama and Tech – Florida games? No one did.
Then Tech tried to come back with hat in hand in the early 1980’s. But Tech had refused to travel to Ole Miss, Mississippi State, LSU, and Vandy to play because Bobby Dodd thought Tech people were too special to travel to such places. Well, those teams remembered that in the 1980’s and voted to keep them out.
So now there is talk to coming back to the conference they thought they were too good for in the 1960’s.
We don’t want the trash back.
paintcan
August 24th, 2011
5:32 pm
Wish I’d written that!
Thorough and surgically precise.
David
August 24th, 2011
6:19 pm
The ACC is in big time trouble if FSU leaves. Miami is going to get some brutal sanctions, and they won’t be a national contender again for at least a decade.
No disrespect to Va Tech and Clemson, but if the Florida schools don’t get it together, the ACC won’t be in a national title game for a long long time.
Paul in NH (formerly RDU)
August 24th, 2011
10:47 pm
Pitbull @3:20
Tech had refused to travel to Ole Miss, Mississippi State, LSU, and Vandy to play because Bobby Dodd thought Tech people were too special to travel to such places
—–
From 1945 until leaving the SEC:
GT played 1 game against Ole Miss at Bobby Dodd (in 1946) – 0 games in Oxford
GT played 0 games against MSU
GT played 12 games against LSU – 6 in Atlanta and 6 in Baton Rouge
GT played 9 games against Vandy – 4 in Atlanta and 5 in Nashville
Don’t let facts get in the way of your comments.
Doug the Jacket
August 26th, 2011
11:04 am
Pitbull, you are wrong. GT played most of their games at home during the Dodd years because GT did not have to travel. SEC schools, Clemson and others wanted to come to Atlanta to play because they got a better pay-day than playing at home, in rural areas of the South. Dodd and GT had their pick of opponents to play, in Atlanta. Money. The only reason GT left was the 140 SEC rule, a conference rule that permitted a combined 140 players to be on scholarship in football and basketball. In the words of the greatest coach to ever coach in the South, Bobby Dodd: “in other words, if you signed 45 players each year – the SEC limit at the time – you’d end up with 180, so you had to run off about 40 of ‘em. You couldn’t be over the limit. Alabama, Ole Miss and Tennessee and these people were all doing that. They’d bring in 45 players, look at ‘em for three months – September, October, November – and then they’d get rid of all of ‘em but about 30.: Georgia Tech and Bobby Dodd refused to treat their players like that, as they all had been recruited as the best players out of high school. Dodd said, “we wouldn’t run off anybody and hardly anybody flunked out”. Dodd wanted the SEC to “put the premium on keeping boys instead of putting the premium on running ‘em off” The controversy came to a haed in 1964 at the off-season SEC meetings in Atlanta, when a vote was taken. The swing vote, Alabama. Grow up, Pitbull.
Here's a good lil league for GT
August 26th, 2011
3:08 pm
Southern Comfort League
Eastern Conf.
GT
U of Chattanooga
Furman
Davidson
Citadel
Western Cnference
West Conference
Millsaps
Christian Brothers of Memphis
Samford
South Alabama
University of West Florida-Pensacola campus
GT fans ………….um, this could be happening with the ACC crumbling as we speak.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAH,AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA
Doug the Jacket
August 27th, 2011
5:17 am
BS
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August 28th, 2011
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