Can the flagging ACC survive in a football-driven industry?
Georgia Tech celebrates the 2009 ACC title, since vacated. (AJC photo by Johnny Crawford)
The ACC has long been the nation’s most prestigious basketball league, but at a time when college football grows ever larger, basketball counts for less. The almighty SEC figures to try and poach a team or two from the ACC and the Big East and the Big Ten likewise could make entreaties. Is it possible that the ACC could, in the not-so-distant future, cease not just to matter but to exist?
It was in 2003 that the ACC snatched Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech from the Big East, which appeared bound for oblivion. But the Big East, in a deft bit of damage control, grew to 16 teams and became the nation’s best — as opposed to the most prestigious — basketball league. The ACC, by way of contrast, has reaped next to nothing from its expansion.
Since the ACC expanded to a dozen, only Virginia Tech has finished a season ranked in the top 10 of the final USA Today coaches’ poll, and in that span the Hokies haven’t cracked the season-ending top five. The SEC has won the past five BCS titles; the last ACC team even to play in the national championship game was Florida State in January 2001, which was so long ago Mark Richt, now the dean of SEC coaches, was the Seminoles’ offensive coordinator.
The ACC’s ballyhooed basketball has suffered, too. It has become a two-team enterprise: North Carolina and Duke have won three NCAA titles between them since expansion, but the last ACC school to reach the Final Four other than the Big Two was Georgia Tech in 2004. Even more distressing, seven of the 12 programs have changed coaches in the past 17 months.
Duke and Carolina stand as the two best basketball programs in the land — Kansas and UConn and Michigan State and Kentucky might quibble — but the balance of the league, once its regionally televised Thacker & Packer hallmark, no longer exists. Also gone are those days where every league game brought a full house at every arena. Five ACC schools saw decreases in home attendance last season, and three more had average increases of fewer than 100 per game
The question, then: If football tepid and basketball is top-heavy, what’s the lure of the ACC? Tradition, yes. Seven of these 12 have graced the conference since 1953, the year it was formed. Academics, sure. In scholastic terms, this is considered the most serious of the six BCS leagues. But are history and academics enough in a business where millions of dollars flow to the schools that play the best football?
The ACC is in trouble. Its image — and the ACC cares about image — has been sullied. Georgia Tech had to forfeit the 2009 conference title and was placed on four years’ probation by the NCAA. North Carolina has been hit with nine rules violations ranging from impermissible benefits to academic fraud. Miami could well get the death penalty in the wake of Nevin Shapiro’s jailhouse accusations.
If you’re Florida State … if you’re Clemson … if you’re Virginia Tech … if you’re North Carolina State … do you want to stay in the ACC and play Class AAA football if you have big-league options? (And surely some among those will.) Are ACC matters apt to improve anytime soon? Is John Swofford the man to save his conference in the way Mike Tranghese did the Big East? And if Swofford seeks to raid some other league before his gets raided, where does he turn? Nobody’s leaving the SEC, and who in the football-playing Big East might be amenable? Louisville? West Virginia? South Florida?
The ACC was a lovely idea more than a half-century ago: Schools of common interest in a tight geographic area. Over time, the conference has sought to broaden its base, which is necessary in a zero-sum marketplace. The reality, alas, is that the base hasn’t grown but thinned. This has become a strange-looking league with one toe in Boston Harbor and another in the sands of South Beach, and the football it plays isn’t very good. And football matters above all else.
By Mark Bradley
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397 comments Add your comment
Beast from the East
August 22nd, 2011
4:32 pm
Paul in NH,
I stand corrected, sir.
Spike
August 22nd, 2011
4:35 pm
If there is any doubt the ACC is a loser in football, just take a look at the “interest” in the ACC Championship game.
George Stein
August 22nd, 2011
4:36 pm
Eh, conference strength is cyclical.
It’d be nice if other conferences scheduled the way the ACC does, Paul. In the absence of data showing how they’d play against a similarly challenging OOC schedule, I thinking we should withhold judgment on the relative performance of ACC schools versus ess eee cee schools.
Can the flagging ACC survive in a football-driven industry? – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Daily Entertainment News
August 22nd, 2011
4:37 pm
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Get your Hot Dogs and Hamburgers
August 22nd, 2011
4:38 pm
Your school should have more American students than foreigners
So that once again eliminates GT from joining the SEC
Goose
August 22nd, 2011
4:40 pm
Anyone want to start a pool as to when the ACC loses it’s AQ status in the BCS? Before or after the Big East loses it’s status.
GTville
August 22nd, 2011
4:42 pm
Can the SEC bypass GT? Yes, and GT will be hurting if FSU/Clemson leave. However, it leaves Atlanta open to another future power conference to pick up GT. The SEC would still rule ATL, but have a thorn in its side. Picking up GT, Clemson and FSU eliminates ALL recruiting competition from outside the southern US.
I think you will see some major, not yet discussed moves coming next spring…and a couple of already discussed moves. The SEC as currently configured is not completely safe from defections.
Steve
August 22nd, 2011
4:42 pm
Mark, you ask the question, … do you want to stay in the ACC and play Class AAA football if you have big-league options?
FSU shouted an emphatic YES! YES! YES! after declining Roy Kramer’s personal invitation to join the SEC. When you lay down with the dogs, you get the fleas.
Paul in NH (formerly RDU)
August 22nd, 2011
4:43 pm
Beast
I think you just abbreviated “women’s soccer and men’s lacrosse” to “women’s lacrosse” – although the ACC does dominate in that sport too (along with your UF Gators).
Tech man
August 22nd, 2011
4:45 pm
Get your Hot Dogs and Hamburgers you def aren’t a fan of Tech and you are wrong on all of the above. Tech seats 55,000. That’s a heck of a lot more than 500. And Tech wanted to get back in the MIGHTY SEC but Vince Dooley didn’t want us back. Wonder why? Coward! Nice try Redneck
ToccoaDawg
August 22nd, 2011
4:47 pm
what conference would want GT except the ACC?
Tech man
August 22nd, 2011
4:48 pm
“The combined IQ of your entire football team is higher then the weight of your nose tackle. ” I believe you’re referring to the Georgia Football team there numb nuts.
Golden
August 22nd, 2011
4:49 pm
Plenty Toccoa Dawg. But keep hating on Tech all you want.
1276jacket
August 22nd, 2011
4:50 pm
Maybe another ACC commissioner is needed. Leadership seems weak. Tech changed AD and moves started happening. I don’t think it will change unless ACC makes change at the top.
I also think when they took in BC and Miami they spread too thin. I think those two selections will haunt the ACC now.
techfan
August 22nd, 2011
4:50 pm
I don’t want Tech to leave the ACC but if they have to then I would like to see them go to the Big 10. Outside of the geography, everything else about the conference would be a perfect fit. Hopefully they look to expand south. An ACC Big East merge would be my second preference. The SEC would probably be the third best option.
What's the good word?
August 22nd, 2011
4:51 pm
Just curious, but can someone tell me when the last time U(sic)GA won a national championship as compared to Tech? I mean, if we’re going to compare the two programs (admittedly, U(sic)GA does have a better football team, but still), let’s compare this one stat that Dawgs conveniently like to forget.
coolbreeze
August 22nd, 2011
4:52 pm
Interesting how Climpson always comes up in discussions of who goes to the SEC. Good fit. Can’t even remember the last time they won the ACC (GT and Wake have won it more recently), but everyone seems to think they’re Badass. Please……
Beast from the East
August 22nd, 2011
4:54 pm
“When you lay down with the dogs, you get the fleas.”
Steve,
Read any news lately? Might want to read up on UNC and The U before you cast stones. Seems the ACC wants to start dominating in NCAA violations, since they can’t in football.
Lowcountry Bulldawg
August 22nd, 2011
4:56 pm
GTBob,
So if Tech joined the SEC you would know longer support them? A true fan of any school would never say that. I guess that is just your typical Tech approach though. Not surprised.
Paul in NH (formerly RDU)
August 22nd, 2011
4:57 pm
George,
My point isn’t about the overall strength of the OOC schedules but the importance of the ACC schools winning some of these big games.
ClemsonBrad
August 22nd, 2011
4:57 pm
Great, Great article Mark. I’m hoping SEC picks up on Clemson in the next few years….as I believe we’d be a great fit for them. All three of our big sports can compete in the SEC.
ToccoaDawg
August 22nd, 2011
4:58 pm
The last time I checked Clemson didn’t offer 4 cokes 4 hotdogs and a ncaa probation.
SuperB
August 22nd, 2011
4:59 pm
Mark: I grew up goint to (since 1956) ACC games and covering them for many years as a native of North Carolina. I have also covered SEC FB for the last 35 years– and now live in Virginia. So I guess I am as unbiased as one can be. That said– the original NC teams won’t leave the ACC because basketball is king. If the SEC expands– and they will– it will be sans the original ACC schools.
Beast from the East
August 22nd, 2011
4:59 pm
Personally, I would like to see GT in the SEC. They are in the hub of SEC football (Atlanta), competitive in all the big 3 sports and would help raise the academics in the SEC. Good fit from my perspective.
powerhouse?
August 22nd, 2011
5:01 pm
If the football record is the determining factor for being in a powerhouse conference, then I expect the sec to kick out the dogs soon. Their downward spiral probably will continue into this season starting out zero and two.
GTBob
August 22nd, 2011
5:05 pm
Lowcountry Bulldawg,
I may have exaggerated. I will always support my school in whatever they do. Athletically or academically. Lets just say that I would be highly disappointed. Imagine if UGA decided to move to Conference USA. Wouldn’t you be a little bummed?
db
August 22nd, 2011
5:08 pm
I think GT is going to surprise some people this year.
James
August 22nd, 2011
5:09 pm
Mark, Boston College tied with Texas for No. 10 in the final 2007 AP Poll. Va. Tech was No. 9.
1Jacket7
August 22nd, 2011
5:10 pm
As the NCAA continues to raise the Academic Bar. More and more SEC Schools will continue to decline. i.e. Washaun Ealey and Caleb King. Many others before. This is why UGA can’t win. They actually raised their Academic Standards over the last Decade. No one wants to acknowledge this, but we can’t continue to raise our boys thinking it will be ok to just be a Jock and ending up a Dumb Jock in the NCAA. The NCAA will not have it. Florida and UGa will continue to decline. This is why LSU, South Carolina, and Alabama are on the rise. Shula cared to much about Academics so ALA was down. The Mississippi Teams will have flashes but who wants to go to school in Mississippi? Tennessee is just as bad Academically as GA but they are having an image problem so the best kids go elsewhere. Remember my message over the next 5 years and you will see more and more how GA talent leaves GA to play where academics are not that challenging to stay eligible for 3 years so they can Jump to the NFL. All of this means that more and more of the best talented kids will end up leaving college without an education and the Arena League and USFL will continue to scoop them up to better there chances of success in which the NFL will fund them as a farm system. MARK, my words.
supsalemgr
August 22nd, 2011
5:11 pm
Aunt Esther must not consider baseball, gymnastics, golf, tennis collegiate sports.
U
August 22nd, 2011
5:13 pm
We need the ACC to survive if for no other reason than to make fun of how bad it is.
Lowcountry Bulldawg
August 22nd, 2011
5:15 pm
Thats not apples to apples comparison Bob. A move by Tech would be a huge upgrade for them. You would be in a premiere football, baseball conference and a very respectable basketball conference. Tech in two of those three could compete pretty quickly. I am not a favor of Tech coming back due to the history of the departure, but if I am a Tech fan I would put my Anti-UGA cap aside. If I am Tech I would love to be in the SEC East and hope to get a chance at the end of the year to play UGA for the East Title, that certainly would mean more than it does currently. Pretty simply in my mind, but Tech fans are so caught up in UGA hate to realize the benefit.
db
August 22nd, 2011
5:16 pm
So what’s everyone’s thought on Miami getting the death penalty? Will it happen? I don’t believe so but with the way the NCAA has been running roughshod, who know.
1Jacket7
August 22nd, 2011
5:17 pm
Continued. Parity will return amongst the conferences,so the ACC will get better. The SEC will drop and it will appear that the other conferences have gotten better. Look across the country. ND is down. Academics got harder, Penn State is down, Academics got harder, The Big Ten is down with the exception of OSU. But time after time they fail to beat the Schools with softer academic curriculums. LSU, USC ALA. etc. The writing is on the wall. Look up and read it.
RTR
August 22nd, 2011
5:17 pm
Who cares about the Fighting Adam’s Apples? They don’t belong in the SEC. We’re not looking to add another Vandy. They run the option for Chrissake. ATL market? Tech? You have to be kidding. Maybe a 50/50 split on 10th St. Their “fanbase” is best discussing the scientific plausibility of old Trek episodes, not filling a space in the most elite football conference in the land. Leave the ACC as a nice little basketball conference that has football “club” teams. There is no room for Lucases in the SEC, (no disrespect to the late Corey Haim). Roll Tide!! #14 on the way. God, WE ARE AWESOME.
db
August 22nd, 2011
5:19 pm
LowCountry – you’ve done as much GT bashing just on this one blog as all the GT bloggers combined. And that’s just counting the posts where you actually use the LowCountry moniker. Geeze!
Glenn
August 22nd, 2011
5:22 pm
Yes.
Lowcountry Bulldawg
August 22nd, 2011
5:22 pm
Just use this moiker, and yes I have bashed Tech. It is all in good natured fun, but that does not make a legitimate point any less valid. So again what is your point?
Jacket Backer
August 22nd, 2011
5:24 pm
The ACC will be just fine and so will Georgia Tech. I like the fact that we play in a league that values academic excellence and includes schools such as GT, Duke, UNC, UVA, etc…..We are a better fit in this conference. Not that we will be asked, but I don’t want GT to EVER consider rejoining the SEC. That league consists of nothing but sports factories disquised as institutions of higher education. Save Vandy, there are no prestigious academic universities in the mix. No thanks!
Go Jackets!!
Old Dawg
August 22nd, 2011
5:25 pm
OK, I’ve changed my mind on the school swapping issue … let the SEC give the ACC Vandy and Kentucky and you have hoops and academic heaven while the SEC gets FSU and Clemson (or FSU).
I know the Gators and Gamecocks wouldn’t like this scenarios but where would they go if they get their way, the rapidly disappearing Big 12? Or Big Least?
shane#1
August 22nd, 2011
5:27 pm
I think you can nix FSU and Clemson as far as entering the SEC. South Carolina and Florida do not want another SEC team in their state.Auburn, Bama, and UGA ain’t too crazy about FSU coming in either. FSU recruits South Ga and L.A.[lower Alabama] hard enough as it is. So, if any team from the ACC joins the SEC IMO, their first choice would be VaTech because of the DC market. No offense to the Techies, but the SEC has a pretty big footprint in the Atlanta market now, I don’t see Tech giving them anything that they don’t have. If the Hoakies won’t jump, possibly N.C.State or UNC would, giving the SEC a team in the high tech triangle and access to more tvs. I don’t think Miami will get the death penalty, the ACC AND the NCAA don’t want to lose the Southeast Florida market, your probably talking 10 million tv sets.
Get your Hot Dogs and Hamburgers
August 22nd, 2011
5:28 pm
If there are more security guards than fans at a game
I guess that eliminates Tech from joining the ACC
jackyldo
August 22nd, 2011
5:28 pm
SEC could invite Texas A+M / Oklahoma / Florida State and any 4th pominant school and be an improved league and product.
Those same teams added to the ACC despite their cachet add nothing to the ACC.
Sean
August 22nd, 2011
5:29 pm
Real question is can the SEC survive when half their programs are on probation watch every single year. At some point, your actions catch up to you as a conference.
The ACC has the structure and framework to be every bit as successful as the SEC in football. It just needs new leadership at the conference level. And it needs FSU to fulfill its mission of being the top team in the conference and the national draw – which appears to be doing at this point.
blazerdawg
August 22nd, 2011
5:29 pm
SEC add Florida State, Georgia Tech, Texas A&M, Oklahoma or Texas Tech
ACC add Syracuse, Pitt, and Connecticut (to replace Miami)
Would hate to Miami get the death penalty, but short of conspiracy murder I cannot imagine a better case for it. NCAA needs to suspend/kick out the serious/serial abusers.
ajcreader
August 22nd, 2011
5:32 pm
The ACC will definitely survive. Carolina – Duke ensures that. The move that makes the most sense is trading BC to Big East for West Virginia. WVU not as strong academically but would fit perfectly in football and basketball. Otherwise, hope FSU or VA Tech can sneak into the BCS hunt every once in a while.
Flat Tire on I-95 in Jacksonville
August 22nd, 2011
5:32 pm
Lowcountry Bulldawg
Makes a good point
Problem is Tech is too stupid to realize it just like they are too stupid in believing the middle school option veer will make them relevant again
Born2Buzz
August 22nd, 2011
5:33 pm
I would hope the ACC leaders are smart enough to expand before the SEC tries to get Clemson and FSU. I say go get West Va, Syracuse, PITT and UConn. That will solidify the Northeast market and strengthen the basketball product. And ESPN would jump on getting a new TV deal for that.
I agree with some others that the latest messes with CFB and the NCAA can only mean a strengthening of academic requirements and the policing of meeting those requirement. If there are football factory schools that want to continue the fraud of having football players majoring in “football” with no intent to get an education, the NCAA might just say “go start your own semi-pro league and get out of the NCAA. Sadly, I think more than half of the SEC schools would jump on that. Only 2 of the ACC schools would be in that realm.
GTBob
August 22nd, 2011
5:34 pm
Lowcountry Bulldawg, joining the SEC would be an upgrade in football, a downgrade in basketball, and pretty much a wash on baseball. There would be a slight upgrade in money and a significant downgrade in academic prestige. I just don’t see how joining the SEC would really benefit GT at all unless you only care about making a few more million. Not to mention its much more pleasant to be around ACC fans then SEC fans. I would more then likely go to less games if we joined the SEC.
William Satterwhite
August 22nd, 2011
5:37 pm
“and who in the football-playing Big East might be amenable? Louisville? West Virginia? South Florida?”
Yes to all. When the next big realignment does happen, most everyone expects the Big East to have a clean split between the football playing schools and the non-football schools with the football schools filling out the balance of three eastern super-conferences. Strict geographical lines will matter even less at that point so West Virginia, Louisville and South Florida will be right at home in the ACC if one or more of them (I’m looking at West Virginia for this) don’t get into the SEC first. The Big East will simply cease to exist as a football league, the ACC’s status as the 4th super-conference is basically secure.