As Rangers arrive, we say: The Teixeira deal wasn’t that bad
Back in the day: Elvis Andrus as a Rome Brave.
The Texas Rangers arrive at Turner Field tonight for a three-game series, and no Braves fan will ever think of the Rangers as anything but the organization that remade itself by renting Mark Teixeira to the local team for a year.
Of the five prospects the Braves sent to Texas, three are big-league Rangers today. (A fourth, Jerrod Saltalamacchia, is Boston’s No. 1 catcher.)
Teixeira arrived in August 2007, played 157 games as a Brave and was traded to the Angels in July 2008 and signed with the Yankees — doesn’t everybody? — that winter.
For the Braves, the trade was a considered mistake. They knew what they were doing; it just didn’t work. Teixeira’s presence didn’t lift them above the Phillies in either of his partial seasons here. He wasn’t terrible. He was actually pretty darn good. But one year’s rental didn’t yield the desired result, and it came at great cost. That said …
The trade didn’t bankrupt the Braves’ farm system, which has gone on to produce Tommy Hanson, Jason Heyward and Freddie Freeman, with Julio Terehan waiting in Gwinnett. And the Braves will argue that the two key everyday players they shipped to Texas — Saltalamacchia and shortstop Elvis Andrus — were blocked in this organization. (Salty by Brian McCann, Andrus by Yunel Escobar, who was traded to Toronto last summer for Alex Gonzalez.)
Bottom line: The Rangers reached the World Series last season with Andrus as their shortstop and Neftali Feliz as their closer, but the Braves made the playoffs, too. As nice as it would be to have a lefthander like Matt Harrison in the rotation — he’ll start against the Braves on Saturday — the Braves’ problems haven’t been pitching. (There’s no question Andrus would be useful here, though. He’s 22. Gonzalez is 34.)
Neither party to the big trade has gone to seed. The Rangers are good. They lead the American League despite having lost their past five games. The Braves are good, too. They have the third-best record in the National League.
The Rangers got exactly what they wanted from the Tex deal and the Braves did not, which means the Rangers won the trade. But that doesn’t mean this was the worst deal in Atlanta annals. It wasn’t even close to being the worst. Len Barker for Brett Butler, Brook Jacoby and Rick Behenna and $150,000 — don’t forget the $150k! –will always be the worst. Always.
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167 comments Add your comment
Mark Teixiera
June 17th, 2011
5:10 pm
Suckers.
choozer
June 17th, 2011
5:14 pm
There’s another way to look at players like Andrus and Salty. Sure, they were blocked by Escobar and McCann, but instead of trading Escobar for AGon, we could have traded him for an outfielder and promoted Andrus. Throw in Salty and you perhaps get us a better bench. And if we had had Matt Harrison, perhaps we wouldn’t have been so desperate to the point of signing KK. And then with all that money saved on KK, perhaps we could have signed help in the outfield, or wherever. My point is just because you had players blocking them, doesn’t mean there isn’t a net limiting effect.
BobWeiss
June 17th, 2011
5:18 pm
The Len Barker deal was by far the worst deal in Braves history. The Braves were a World Series contender until that trade. They spent the rest of the 80’s looking for a decent CF and 3B while playing lousy baseball. The Braves obviously traded Jacoby because they believed his development would be blocked by Bob Horner. What a joke. Brett Butler spent the next 20 years being one of the best defensive CF in the game while being a very good leadoff hitter.
Time
June 17th, 2011
5:27 pm
I get the feeling it’s the same people who don’t like the Tex deal that didn’t like the Julio Jones deal the Falcons made. It’s simple. While young high upside prospects are nice, if you’re looking to win now you always deal them to get that stud (Tex). Sure, Feliz panned out and Andrus has been pretty good. Salty is just now starting to look like he might stick in the majors. But for every Feliz we trade away, there’s 10 guys who once were great prospects that never amounted to anything. Andy Marte ring a bell anyone? If your the Braves and you know your farm system will keep producing young prospects as they do then you’re a fool to not trade some of them. Even if some of them turn out to be stars. Same with Falcons deal, if you know you draft well late then go ahead and trade that first rounder, and next years, and the year after next if you think you can get that one stud that helps you win now.
Bob
June 17th, 2011
5:28 pm
Chooser…I like your rationale, and I think your assessment is correct. Good, common sense approach to the game my friend.
I'm so smart, I'm an Idiot...
June 17th, 2011
5:31 pm
Yes the trade looks bad now. But, you have to give up something to get something. You’re not going to be able to give Brooks Conrad, Diory Hernandez, etc. and get a star player. Oh yeah, while Tex was here he hit 37 HRs and had 134 RBIs in 157 games. When is the last time a Brave put up those kind of numbers.
Time
June 17th, 2011
5:32 pm
And if there is a deal you want to look back on and say was really bad for the Braves it wasn’t the Texieria deal. It was the JD Drew deal, where we traded away Adam Wainwright, among other players.
Elliot
June 17th, 2011
5:34 pm
The Teixeira trade is probably the worst deal I can remember in 45 years of following this team. Trading Adam Wainwright to the Cardinals wasn’t so great either, and nobody has mentioned the Denny Neagle for Jason Schmidt trade. Neagle was good for a year but Schmidt was a stud for years and years after we traded him.
EastAtlantaBravesFan
June 17th, 2011
6:30 pm
While the trade has not worked out for the Braves, this wasn’t necessarily a bad trade.
1. Teixeira played some of the best baseball of his career in Atlanta, posting a .943 OPS, which is about 40 points higher than he posted in ANA or NYY. To get a player of this caliber — one of the top 5 offensive producers in the game — you have to give up something!
2. While Feliz was in the “All Star Game” (entirely devoid of actual worth when analyzing a player’s worth) and will be a very good to great closer for years to come, Venters and Kimbrel have both shown signs statistically of being much better than Feliz. Again, to get Teixeira we had to give up something. Fortunately here we had two pieces — plus one of Wagner’s greatest seasons — to fill in the gap. The closer role has not been a problem for us.
3. Andrus is a very good young shortstop. He is the piece that is most regrettable, but don’t forget how good Yunel was in the early stages of his career. Even with his horrendous 2010 year, Yunel’s career OPS is almost 100 points higher than Andrus’. Yunel carried the team’s offense in 2009, and in 2007, the year of the trade, he posted a .837 OPS. Again, Andrus’ highest OPS of his career is .702. And he got caught stealing 15 times last year! No thanks.
4. Salty is already 26 and has not shown much promise, in my opinion. I would take Ross over him as starting catcher any day of the week. And if you throw in BMac into the equation, no question. No regrets tossing him in this deal.
Overall, the trade to get Teixeira from Texas was not a bad trade at all. You give up prospects to get league-leading offensive talent.
Unfortunately, we couldn’t resign him. And we didn’t get enough from ANA. This is the part that is error on the part of the organization.
Dawgs Man
June 17th, 2011
8:10 pm
Gonzalez continues to strike out on the outside curves that are usually in the dirt. He is probably the worst hitter on this team.
Chipper's ACL
June 17th, 2011
8:52 pm
Ummm, yes this was the first of a two part trade with Mark T that rates as the worst in Braves history. The first with Tex was bad but unloading him to the Angels for basically nothing was awful. I’ve brought this up in other blogs so let’s look back at who the Angels drafted when Mark walked. Trout, who is rated the #1 prospect in MLB was picked in round 1. There were tons of pitching that could’ve been had with the compensation pick. So our departing GM that year blew the first part and our current stunk up the later.
EastAtlantaBravesFan
June 17th, 2011
9:05 pm
Exactly. Why would a team not simply keep Teixeira an additional two months and receive the compensation pick when he walks?
Kotchman’s about as mediocre as them come, and Marek has not pitched yet in the bigs despite putting up great numbers at AAA last year.
The TEX-ATL is reasonable. It seems bad only because Yunel had an epic breakdown in 2010. The ATL-ANA trade is what is really irrational.
rugburn
June 17th, 2011
9:13 pm
kotchman was no tex but he was an excellent fielder and a good contact hitter as i recall. no power at all. what’s he doing this year?
EastAtlantaBravesFan
June 17th, 2011
9:29 pm
He’s in Tampa, posting great numbers so far — getting on base almost 40% of the time. His OPS this year is about 125 points over his career numbers (a very mediocre .728, especially for a first baseman).
ET
June 17th, 2011
10:01 pm
I’m sorry, you just don’t make a blockbuster trade like that one where you are sending five of your best prospects for one player without first signing said player to a contract extension. Anything less is just plain stupid. Texas really screwed us. They knew that Tex’s agent would not let Tex sign a contract without testing free agency. We were used, abused & screwed by Tex & Texas. If any trade threw away a bevy of top notch ball players for nothing, then this was that trade. I’m ashamed that the ball club I root for allowed themselves to be taken advantage of in this manner & did not commit Harry Carey (yes it is a play on words) when the results were right there for the world to see the ineptness of the management. Except for that I thought it was a good trade…
don
June 17th, 2011
10:11 pm
I’ve got to hand it to Bradley. His description of the trade and its alleged outcome has to be the greatest job of spinning in history. Joe Simpson couldn’t have done better. Anthony Weiner needs Bradley as his public relations coordinator.
There is no way to find anything positive about that trade. It made the Rangers into contenders and, in reality, set the Braves as pretenders (which they remain).
The trade was a mistake before it was made. It never made sense to anyone familiar with the players the Braves gave up. While nearly all fans of the Braves and all of the management of the Braves heralded the move, a very few of us openly posted strong opposition. If you could check back, you would find that this is true. Of course, we were cursed and ridiculed for our opposition. After all, we were told, these were mere prospects and prospects don’t often pan out. And, of course, who needed Andrus when you had Escobar. And, naturally, “Big Tex” would give the “hometown discount” and sign long term after leading the Braves to glory immediately.
Well, it didn’t happen. It never was going to happen. Escobar was and is no Andrus. Teixeira’s hometown wasn’t Atlanta and he led the team to an early off season.
The sad thing is that all of this should have been obvious to Schuerholz, Wren, Bradley, and the rest of you before it happened. Truly a dumba***d move made by dumba**es.
Kerry Litenberg
June 17th, 2011
10:24 pm
Picking me up for a bag of balls worked out pretty well.
don
June 17th, 2011
10:25 pm
Good grief. EastAtlantaBravesFan has drowned in the Koolade. Is there any intelligent objectivity in East Atlanta?
gcs
June 17th, 2011
10:35 pm
Hate to say it but the Braves are gonna get swept.
.
EastAtlantaBravesFan
June 17th, 2011
10:58 pm
don,
Objectivity? If my initial post was anything, it was objective. I compared the players involved in the trade using statistical analysis, like OPS, which is one of the best indicators of offensive production.
Your post? ” Escobar was and is no Andrus.” In 2009, both players had their highest years in terms of WAR, while Andrus posted a 3.5 fWAR, Escobar was a full win ahead of him. In Baseball Reference’s WAR, the gap is even larger (5.5 to 2.4). Escobar is still outperforming him this year in almost every meaningful statistical category.
Before you use words like “objective,” you may want to check on their meaning.
Also, you assertion that the trade was directly responsible for the Rangers being “contenders” and the Braves “pretenders” is equally laughable. Not only did the Braves have a better record last year, they do this year as well. The Braves played last year’s champs a lot tougher than the Rangers did. A few injuries/outs/umpire’s calls here and there and the Braves would have been playing the Phils — not the Giants.
Despite what you think, the Braves were contenders last year and still are this year. Unfortunately, we have dealt with more than our share of injuries. This team is a championship contender — any team with our starting staff would be.
Worst trade ever
June 17th, 2011
11:56 pm
Mark, awfully smart to write this piece of mularky before we play the Rangers this weekend. It’s would look even more ridiculous after we get swept this weekend. Neftali Perez throws the ball 98 mph and throws strikes! Elvis Andrus has the most stolen bases in baseball. His name is Elvis! How can you trade a guy named Elvis, for God’s sake? And don’t even get me started on that sell your soul to the highest bidder, Tex. Did we make it to the playoffs with Tex? Nope!
don
June 18th, 2011
12:03 am
Oh no. EastAtlantaBravesFan is also an excuse maker. His belief is that the failure of the Braves was caused by injuries and umpires. How about a plague and a tornado or two? EABF is all “coulda, shoulda, woulda”.
All your OPS, WAR, and BS doesn’t change the fact that the Teixeira trade was an absolute disaster. Andrus is an all-star, a very, very young all-star. Feliz is an All-star, a very, very young all-star (He looked good in the 9th inning tonight, didn’t he?). Both have unlimited upsides. Harrison is a young and upcoming starting pitcher held back only by injuries ((which happen to all teams). Saltalamacchia is coming along nicely in Boston. Beau James is still a decent prospect moving through the Ranger farm system (A farm system rated superior to that of the Braves). Escobar was a malcontent who was dumped to Toronto for a mediocre Gonzalez. Teixeira led Atlanta to nothing and soon escaped for the big city and big wampum. All these are facts- not excuses. No “coulda, shoulda, woulda” here.
Braves are history
June 18th, 2011
12:46 am
When will the Braves get rid of TP as hitting coach? Oh, they did? Well who do we blame now?
Atticus
June 18th, 2011
7:19 am
It was a BAD trade if they knew they weren’t going to re-sign Tex, which they weren’t. Yes those players were blocked but they were players that could’ve been used to go after other trades. This organization is constantly struggling with the budget and that is why we have no superstars who hit .300 and have 35 HRs and 120 RBIs while we compete with teams who do. Even the Cardinals have 3 in Pujols, Berkman and Holliday. Brewers w Braun and Fielder, Votto, Kemp, Howard, CarGo and Tulo in Colorado. Its obvious we have to develop our own and that will hopefully be Heyward but that is a few years away.
don
June 18th, 2011
8:10 am
EastAtlantaBravesFan, you are full of “coulda, woulda, shoulda” and “if not for the injuries and unpires..”. Why not throw in the recession, tornadoes, plagues, and other such excuses. You, too, could be of help in rehabilitating Weiner.
Throw all your excuses away. The Teixeira trade was still a monumental disaster. You don’t need “coulda, woulda, shoulda” to figure that out.
Do you really think anyone other than his mother would take Escobar (let alone Gonzalez) over Andrus? But, I admire your blind loyalty.
bob
June 18th, 2011
8:49 am
This was a bad trade, period. The one point being overlooked is that 2007 was a year the Braves should have been sellers instead of buyers. By 2008 they were a 90 loss team even with Teixeira on the roster most of the season.
MM
June 18th, 2011
9:19 am
Trying to gloss over a mistake is typical of Loserville. Yes, the Tex trade was a terrible mistake but Len Barker is the all time dumbest mistake ever.
Braves@Atlanta.com
June 18th, 2011
9:28 am
If the braves pitch well and lost 6-2 to a team that cannot by a win, what does this tell you about the status of the team? Can you spell or say SUCK. Will this team lose 62-3 if it pitches average or 109-1 if pitching badly? Will KC be the next dynasty in the AL since they have all of he braves’ young player?
Braves@Atlanta.com
June 18th, 2011
9:29 am
If the braves pitch well and lost 6-2 to a team that cannot buy a win, what does this tell you about the status of the team? Can you spell or say SUCK. Will this team lose 62-3 if it pitches average or 109-1 if pitching badly? Will KC be the next dynasty in the AL since they have all of he braves’ young player?
Braves@Atlanta.com
June 18th, 2011
9:30 am
Open your eyes boys, the worst has yet to come.
reckingball
June 18th, 2011
11:17 am
testing
reckingball
June 18th, 2011
11:28 am
I think that the Barker–for–ButJacBe trade, was a very terrible trade, made by a GM that had no buisness being a GM.
The Tex–for–the Farm trade was just as terrible, or worse, made by a GM that was suppose to have superior intellect and baseball knowledge.
JS made a few bad trades in my opinion, getting rid of Dye, rid of Grissom, etc.
But, the Tex deal did get JS promoted to President.
extremus
June 18th, 2011
11:42 am
Whatever may have come from the Texiera trade, what cannot be argued is that the Braves gave up some good hitting prospects to make it happen. A few years removed and what do the Braves need most that they simply don’t have much of at any level? Hitting (and speed, obviously). While that trade isn’t single-handedly responsible for the current situation, it sure contributed toward it.
Speaking of trades, I’d have to expect the Braves to be discussing some potential big ones involving some of their (current) surplus of great pitchers at the MLB level as well as in the minors for some impact position players, perhaps even at Second Base ; let’s face the possibility that the Braves just lost $62 million in the Dan Uggla trade (another trade worth mentioning in the “worst of all time” list). Without some decent hitting, I seriously doubt the Braves will even make the Wild Card this year despite their great pitching.
Navigator
June 18th, 2011
11:57 am
What it means was the Braves were desperate and the Rangers were not. The Rangers played in the World Series last year and the Braves did not. We have an over the hill short stop and Yunel Escobar is the starter for Toronto over the next 7-8 years. Let’s not forget the giveaway of the allstar second baseman, the second basemen to San Francisco who just happened to be the son of our previous GM, and on and on. The Braves will work their way down to the basement where they used to reside and well those other team just get rich off the incompetence of our present GM.
FACTS
June 18th, 2011
11:58 am
Andrus is 22 yrs old & has already played in a world series….we have Gonzalez at SS & he acts like he is daydreaming out there, nuff said…..oh yeah Andrus does bring a bit of speed to the table something that the Braves are totally lacking & what Braves fan would not love to hear Elvis’s name being announced over the PA every single game!!!
Dawgdad (The Original)
June 18th, 2011
12:56 pm
Wainright for JD Drew rental was the worst Braves trade ever.
Blue
June 18th, 2011
1:13 pm
Can any one name me a player who is not pitcher that has came to the Braves and had years better than before that got here and then left and had better years. The Braves are poison to free agents and supper stars that they trade for
don
June 18th, 2011
2:25 pm
The Wainwright trade was even worse than you suggest, Dawgdad. The Braves also gave up Jason Marquis in that disaster.
The Barker trade was terrible giving up Bret Butler and Brook Jacoby. The Drew trade was worse. The Teixeira trade tops them all. It was one of the worst in baseball history. It never made any sense before or after the tr5ade was made.
John30456
June 18th, 2011
3:20 pm
Hindsight is 20/20. If Scherholz had any one of the many crystal balls used by the posters here, life would be grand. He dealt with what he had at the time not with shoulda, coulda, or woulda that many of you speak about.
Boob Horner
June 18th, 2011
6:35 pm
Even at the time the trade was made, it appeared to be a rather desperate grab at one more ring to elevate Mr Shurholtz’ and Cox’ legacies. We had just been burned by Mr. Borass(sic) in the Drew deal and should have avoided the same type of mistake(both players had Ga connections). It’s the missed alternatives that really tell the tale, plus the additional stop gap moves to plug up the other holes this move created the next few years throught to the present. Salty was blocked by McCann, but he could have yielded a corner outfield prospect, which we are still waiting on. With that player in house, we leave Prado at second and save $15 Mil/yr for a .170 hitter. Wagner was excellent last year, but no better than Feliz, and his $6 mil could have netted a good leftfielder. Harrison perhaps could have blocked the Kawakami or even Derek Lowe signing, saving another chunk of change. If we kept both SS, then we could have traded the head case for another pitching or veteran firstbaseman. You never know how those moves might have panned out, but it is obvious that this despiration move not only didn’t produce immediate results, it set up a chain reaction of other bad moves to cover up the holes it created. We are currently spending over $20mil/season to cover the gaps, plus we lack the depth and solid young core we could have had.
Dirty Jacket
June 18th, 2011
7:38 pm
WTF are you talking about? Neftali Feliz is an elite level closer, Elvis Andrus is a protypical leadoff hitter, good OBP, top tier speed, good arm at SS…but okay.
Rick D.
June 18th, 2011
7:51 pm
Bradley needs to shut uo. Always has his foot in his mouth. Last time I checked. The two teams previous teams that Mark Tex. played for both went to the World Series and Tex. has Ring. The Braves were too stupid to keep a winner like Tex. and they needed him badley. Bradley is nothing more than a whiner and fair weather sorry commentator.
reckingball
June 18th, 2011
8:18 pm
Boob Horner…………….You put the hammer on the head.
Your comment, raps it up in a nutshell.
I thought that it was a bad trade at the time, and it turned out to be the worst trade in ATL Braves history.
Like you said, it was an act of desperation.
M10
June 18th, 2011
8:23 pm
The Braves are a poor excuse of a baseball team.They suck
Robbie
June 18th, 2011
8:23 pm
Is there an unwritten law that prevents Brave’s players from going to an ophthalmologist?
Their eyesight must be in question, otherwise they wouldn’t be swinging blindly and wildly like the do!
How many Mendoza batters will we end up with at year’s end?
don
June 18th, 2011
8:49 pm
One fact that we all can agree on is that the Braves desperately need some speed. It is interesting to note that, in addition to his 3 hits, Elvis stole his 20th base today. The entire Atlanta team has stolen 19 bases.
Harrison gave up one earned run on three hits in 6 1/3 innings (even with the extended rain delay which may have factored into the one earned run). He out pitched Lowe. So much for Bradley’s thesis that the trade “wasn’t that bad”. No. It was terrible and gets worse with each passing day.
TechMate
June 18th, 2011
9:30 pm
Enter your comments here
TechMate
June 18th, 2011
9:33 pm
It was the trade that made Scherholtz realize he needed to retire. Gave up way too much for a rental unit.
don
June 18th, 2011
9:49 pm
Trifecta! Feliz just dispatched the Braves one, two, three with two strikeouts to gain another save.
Surely Mr. Bradley is reconsidering his take on the Teixeira trade. As I said, it was terrible and looks worse each day.
don
June 18th, 2011
9:52 pm
Of course, EastAtlantaBravesFan is still around to help others drown in the Koolaid. Is EABF actually John Schuerholz?