Amid Thrashers talk, we ask: Is Atlanta a lousy sports city?
Corporate synergy: Basketball mascot dances at hockey rally! (AJC photo by Hyosub Shin)
Should the Thrashers leave for Manitoba, ours would become the first American city to lose two NHL franchises. Word of the pending sale has spawned yet another round of Atlanta-is-a-lousy-sports-town boilerplate harrumphing, and again I pause to ask: Are we a lousy sports town?
The Thrashers were 28th among 30 NHL teams in attendance last season. The Hawks were 22nd among 30 NBA clubs. The 2010 Braves made the playoffs for the first time since 2005, and their attendance ticked upward from 15th to 13th among the 30 baseball teams. (The average Turner Field crowd grew by 1,685 year over year.)
Of note: The 2010 Falcons, who had the NFL’s second-best record, were 15th among 32 teams in attendance and 19th in capacity at 95.3 per cent. But the Falcons’ average gate was 67,850. Put it this way: Over their last full seasons, the average Braves, Hawks and Thrashers crowds together still fell 6,000 below the Falcons’ yield.
That’s instructive. Since 2004, Hawks and Thrashers fans have faced a shared dilemma: Do I buy tickets and support the team even if it means endorsing the maladroit Atlanta Spirit? Since 2007, the Braves have been owned by faceless Liberty Media of faraway Colorado. (Last week Liberty Media offered $1 billion to buy Barnes & Noble; the Braves’ payroll remains under $90 million.)
My point: The only local pro sports owner who inspires any confidence is Arthur Blank. We’re more inclined to support the Falcons because we believe they’re well run. About the other teams, it can be tough to know. Example: Frank Wren signed Derek Lowe to a four-year contract paying $60 million in January 2009 and was trying to dump him 10 months later. Another: The Hawks paid $120 million to keep Joe Johnson in the same summer they promoted Larry Drew to head coach at a cut-rate price.
My question: If we have qualms about a team’s management, are we wrong for keeping our money in our wallets? Isn’t that essentially what Americans do every election — vote our pocketbooks?
Addressing Thrashers fans, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said on a radio show Thursday: “I understand that there may be dissatisfaction [with ownership] there, but demonstrating your dissatisfaction by not going to games is an interesting strategy. It’s your absolute right. But if it becomes a turnoff for anybody who might want to buy the franchise, the long-term consequences could be severe.”
So Bettman’s recommendation would be to spend money on a bad product just so somebody else might come along and snap it up? In what solar system is he living?
News flash: Money’s tighter than it was in 2005, or in 2000, or in 1995. For a family of four, a game at Philips Arena can run more than $200. (A trip to Turner Field can be done for less.) At a time of lower income and higher prices, the issue becomes: Do we need to go watch this team play in person? For many Atlantans, the teams that meet that criterion tend to be based on college campuses.
Whenever I’m hit with the Atlanta-is-a-lousy-sports-town line, that’s my rebuttal: We might not be the best pro sports city, but we’re the absolute best for college football. All you need do is drive around the Perimeter on an autumn Saturday morning and you’ll see the festooned cars bearing Fulton and DeKalb and Cobb and Gwinnett plates headed for Athens and Auburn and Knoxville and Tuscaloosa and Clemson and Columbia and Tallahassee and Gainesville. (And yes, for North Avenue, too.)
Loading ...In our love for college football, we’re different from Boston or Philadelphia or New York or Miami or L.A. (Among big cities, Dallas would be the closest to us, but it’s not really close.) Our sporting priorities are those autumn Saturdays. As Gary Stokan, the president of the Chick-fil-A Bowl, says: “Our two biggest pro teams are Georgia and Georgia Tech.”
Last year I asked Michael Adams, Georgia’s president, how Sanford Stadium kept playing to capacity crowds in an uncertain economy. “For our folks,” he said, “[football tickets] are second to the mortgage.”
It would be nice if a pro team grabbed us by the lapels and made us care — the Braves did it in 1991, and the Falcons did it with Michael Vick — but that’s the job of the team. It’s not on us.
That more folks haven’t turned up to see the Thrashers lose doesn’t make us lousy civic stewards. Gary Bettman might not be happy with us, but he has to admit we’re savvy shoppers.
By Mark Bradley
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353 comments Add your comment
WPGJET
May 22nd, 2011
2:07 pm
Ask Milt Stegall what he thinks about Winnipeg.
J-bone
May 22nd, 2011
2:10 pm
Indifference to sports is arguably a healthy sign.
Mitchell
May 22nd, 2011
2:12 pm
The one issue as far as the Braves are concerned is that both fans and the orgination are constantly living through the lens of 1991.
Or ‘95 or whichever year you want to pick.
Every time the Braves take the field they’re not just playing against the opponent, they’re playing against the teams of the past and as good as they may be now or last year, they can’t compete with that.
I would say Bobby Cox had a lot to do with withering away the enthusiasm and excitement level of people in general in this town regarding the Braves.
At a certain point it would seem the whole attitude towards the team by fans began to take on the demeanor of the manager.
And then of course there’s the one World Series in fifteen combined playoff appearances.
Angus
May 22nd, 2011
2:13 pm
The difference between college and pro sports’ fans in Atlanta has a lot to do with pride IMO.
Folks are proud of their schools. There’s very little civic pride in Atlanta – probably because there’s no such thing as an Atlanta identity like you find in many of the great pro sports cities (Philly, Chicago, Boston, New York, et al). All of our intown hoods have neighborhood pride, but that generally results in more divisiveness than unity – and that’s not even including the ITP vs OTP divide.
Mitchell
May 22nd, 2011
2:13 pm
orgination… ?
moorman
May 22nd, 2011
2:14 pm
lousy teams, lousy sports town, perfect match……….
Paddy
May 22nd, 2011
2:15 pm
The Truth….by calling the Atl Journal sports writers half breeds tells me that you just might have been educated in the Atl public school system. Doubt you would say such a cowardly thing to their faces. What a Maroon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Barry Gettman
May 22nd, 2011
2:20 pm
Atlanta has failed me.
WPGJET
May 22nd, 2011
2:23 pm
I do feel sympathy for the Thrashers fans; hey, Winnipeggers felt terrible when the Jets were forcibly removed back in 1996. Not to worry, though. We will take good care of the team.
As for the City of Winnipeg, there are a lot of misconceptions about the place.
Yes, it is cold in winter. But no different than Edmonton, Calgary, Montreal, Minnesota and the northeastern USA.
Yes, we have polar bears. In the Assiniboine Park zoo. The wild polar bears are in Churchill, Manitoba, which is 1,100 miles north of Winnipeg.
No, we don’t live in igloos. We live in houses and condos just like the ones you find in Minneapolis.
Yes, we have summer. The summer months can be hot, 80 degrees Fahrenheit is the norm.
Yes, we do have other sports teams. The CFL Winnipeg Blue Bombers and American Baseball Association Winnipeg Goldeyes. Ask former CFL Blue Bomber and current Atlantan what he thinks of Winnipeg.
Yes, we have major universities. The University of Mantoba and the University of Winnipeg. Not to overlook the Red River Community College and St Boniface College (French).
Yes, we have culture. The Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra and the Royal Winnipeg Ballet.
Just GOOGLE Winnipeg and Manitoba. You’re all welcome to visit as tourists.
LLUGA
May 22nd, 2011
2:26 pm
Not really lousy…maybe indifferent…one championship (1995 World Series) in about 155 professional sports team seasons (Hawks, Thrashers, Flames, Falcons, Braves) is PATHETIC…one could argue, based on your attendance numbers, that Atlanta fans are lousy in the sense that too many fans attend and pay for mediocrity.
Mike Vick
May 22nd, 2011
2:30 pm
Atlanta is a city that just isn’t accepting, or forgiving of alternative animal entertainment.
Larry Hoover
May 22nd, 2011
2:30 pm
Put Mike Vick in as GM of the thrashers for a year!
4everTHRASHERSfan
May 22nd, 2011
2:36 pm
if you ask me, i blame the current status of our beloved thrashers on 2 things: lack of leadership within the ownership/management AND lack of media coverage (example: only 30 second slots on the sports newscast on the 4pm, 5pm, 6pm, 11pm news on the local newscasts)….i don’t recall seeing a in-depth analysis of a hockey game but sure let’s have 1 hr analysis of a football or baseball game, the newscasts don’t even offer a fair and even coverage for our local hockey team, all i remember from any newscasts and i will call them out FOX5, 11ALIVE, CHANNEL2, AJC any local radio station, etc…..is: “In hockey news, the Thrashers played xyz tonight and the final score was xyz….a 15 second clip of highlights” and bam, that’s it!!!!
I HATE THE LOCAL NEWS FOR NOT SUPPORTING THE TEAM ALONG WITH THE OWNERSHIP, THE FANS WILL BE THERE WHETHER AT PHILIPS OR AT HOME WHEN THEY CAN’T ATTEND A GAME IN PERSON!
Horsetoothedjackass
May 22nd, 2011
2:37 pm
As a regular listener of SiriusXM’s NHL Home Ice channel, some of their on-air guys complain about how expensive it is to see a Maple Leafs game because a significant chunk of the tickets are owned by corporations in the GTA and what tickets are available to the general public are typically the more expensive ones. We’re talking about an NHL team whose season ticket waiting list is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-20 years based on the source you find online. This is part of the reason why a lot of folks in Ontario go to Buffalo games and why people like Jim Balsille want a second team in either the GTA or in Southern Ontario.
For the most part, corporate support for teams here seem to be on a downward trend. Since Philips Arena opened, the club section has been renamed multiple times, the official airline of the Hawks and Thrashers has gone from Delta to Midwest to Frontier (only because Midwest was merged into Frontier by their corporate parent). Delta even dropped their sponsorship of the Falcons and allowed AirTran to become the “official airline” of the Falcons (although Delta still flies the Falcons to away games).
One of the reasons why Philips even paid for the naming rights is so they could increase their brand awareness in North America. Meanwhile, the only times I ever saw Philips commercials seemed to be during Thrashers games.
People in other cities have trash talked about the Braves not selling out playoff games; the folks in Atlanta got spoiled in the 1990s by all of the playoff appearances and after a while, it became so routine that folks quit going.
chipontheroadbirdsrus
May 22nd, 2011
2:38 pm
Like the Atlanta fans you MR Bradliy are evolving nicely(We didn’t get Cobb and Houston but I’ll take Jones .Dent >and matthews) Go Falcons
Gumby
May 22nd, 2011
2:39 pm
If we had a decent or as my Dad would have put it half-a$$sed transit system I think that would help……alot. Imagine if you could go to Turner Field without having to drive to it!!! If you get on Marta in Kennesaw at Town Center Mall and ride it to the ballpark. Instead I can count on an at least an hours drive both ways. The drive ruins the fun going and leaving. And with gas as high as it is you add that as almost a surcharge.
Matt from MN
May 22nd, 2011
2:43 pm
Frankly, I think people should be surprised that Atlanta has a many pro fans as it does.
Consider this, we had joke ownership in the Falcons for years before Arthur Blank bought the team (see the Clampetts), we had Turner fumbling and bumbling his way with the Braves for years until they FINALLY broke through in 1991 (how many horrible years before that?), the Hawks have been usually OK, but could never get over the hump in their good years, and the Thrashers have been cursed by the worst group of owners ever.
Given that history, it’s a freakin’ miracle the pro teams have ANY fans at all.
Coach Grohbo
May 22nd, 2011
2:48 pm
People stopped going to the Braves playoff games because most fans lost faith in Bobby Cox’s ability to motivate his team for the post season.
Mark Bradley
May 22nd, 2011
2:48 pm
I would agree that the folks of this city haven’t been blessed with great owners. Ted Turner was an exception — but he presided over some awful teams, let’s recall — and Arthur Blank is the shining light. But it’s a short list.
Daniel
May 22nd, 2011
2:49 pm
If you buy tickets and don’t go, the owners still win. Yes you won’t pay the outrageous concession prices but the owners don’t care as you won’t com close to spending on food and drinks as much as you did for tickets in most cases. So if you buy tickets, you’re telling the owners they’re doing a good job. Most people who go to games and root for the home team are from there. So they can easily follow the game on TVand/or radio if they wanted to.
Just remember this: Pirates fans bought a bunch of tickets a few years ago and didn’t go in and requested others didn’t go in. Everyone laughed at them because the owner(s) already got their money.
mdr
May 22nd, 2011
2:50 pm
You’re right Mark, this is a college football town. You also have to take into account the fact that the Hawks have always been run badly. The Braves captured our imaginations for most of the 1990’s, but all those division titles with only one World Series championship really soured a lot of people. Atlantans got bored with the perennial playoff losses. Now that the payroll has been cut like it has, there doesn’t seem to be much hope to get back on top, so why should we spend our hard earned dollars at Turner Field?
The Thrashers should have never been here in the first place. People in the deep south, by and large, don’t understand hockey and don’t care to.
People are excited about the Falcons though. Which goes to show that this is a FOOTBALL city first and foremost, and if you build a winner and drum up some excitement, we will come.
Paddy
May 22nd, 2011
2:52 pm
Matt from MN…..you may not have been so harsh about Ted Turner if you knew it was on or about 1989 that he started taking his librium (sp). After that, his thought processes were more clear and the Braves under his leadership started to do us proud. Not everything is as it seems MN!
Mark Bradley
May 22nd, 2011
2:53 pm
I think fans stopped going to Braves playoff games because there were so many of them in such a short time: Six in 1991, seven in 1992, three in 1993, seven in 1995, eight in 1996, four in 1997, five in 1998, seven in 1999, one in 2000, four in 2001, three in 2002, three in 2003, three in 2004, two in 2005. That’s 63 home playoff games over the 15-year run. That’s a lot.
Dr. Warren
May 22nd, 2011
3:01 pm
I’ve lived for years in NY, Chicago, LA, and now Shanghai, but still religiously follow the Atlanta Falcons, Hawks, and Braves. That should say something about the faithfulness of native Atlantans to these historically mediocre teams. (Or maybe just about my own stupidity).
blazerdawg
May 22nd, 2011
3:06 pm
What does it mean that the Braves drew 3M fans before the Yankees did?
chipontheroadbirdsrus
May 22nd, 2011
3:08 pm
I think real fans got tired of the tomahawk chop
chipontheroadbirdsrus
May 22nd, 2011
3:10 pm
The Braves are in transition The Falcons are in transit
Steve
May 22nd, 2011
3:12 pm
Mark, fantastic article. Makes me want football to start ASAP!
Sherry Taylor
May 22nd, 2011
3:18 pm
To have Bettman pretty much blame fans for this is absurd. It comes down to ownership malfunction and the willingness to keep an inept GM in place for far too long. Waddell, while you are a very nice man, should have been the first casualty of the new ownership of the ASG. It was his guidance that brought them Kurt Fraser and almost every draft pick that didn’t make this team or any other team. He had lousy draft days and trade deadline days. That was their, ASG, second mistake, their first was thinking they could make it a go of any sports franchise. Clearly these men have no idea what running a business is about. Unfortunately, they thought they would learn at the expense of the Thrashers and the Hawks. Every one has lost in this deal. What does this do to Bettman’s rep? Does his kingdom begin to crumble now, at the cost of Atlanta Thrashers players and fans?
James
May 22nd, 2011
3:27 pm
Yes Atlanta is a lousy sports city the teams don’t have good ownerships other than the Falcons. Arthur Blank is the best sports owner Atlanta has the rest of them seem cheap and and seem to don’t care. Plus Atlanta is a transplant city so even if you go to a sports game in Atlanta you gonna see alot of people rooting for the other team cause they are fans of those teams being from those cities but they now live in Atlanta. I remember going to the Cubs vs. Braves playoffs game in Atlanta in 2003 and it seem like it was more Cubs fans than Braves fans at the game it felt like I was at Wrigley Field.
HawksFan
May 22nd, 2011
3:29 pm
Not a bad sports city at all.
Now, if Atlanta had lost a hockey team AND let’s say another sport such as football, then yes, I think we may question it.
But this is two different hockey teams both leaving due to owners. The fans would go if the Thrashers were in the playoffs and improving and we could see owners spending big bucks. But the fact of the matter is when two of your best franchise players leave with little fright from owners to keep them, fans get a vibe that they don’t care to put the best product on the ice. That is what has let the Thrashers move, not the fans. If the owners invest and the Thrashers are winning then fans would have come.
Da'Mikal
May 22nd, 2011
3:32 pm
We are a very homosexual and negro city,so we do not support our teams.
Chameequa
May 22nd, 2011
3:34 pm
Da’Mikal,as an African American woman of 18,and proud single mom of 6,i resent your remark.
Paddy
May 22nd, 2011
3:36 pm
Sherry Taylor…..though it is hard to be on the same side as Bettman. He is doing what he needs to do in this situation. Stick it to the ASG. All the NHL team owners hate this slimey group. Their reputations are not the best to begin with. But saddled with the ASG, everyone comes out a loser. If the ASG are not the worse set of owners of all time in any sport, I can’t think of whom can be metioned in the same sentence. Pal Pot didn’t owner a sports franchise , did he?
NeNe Leaks
May 22nd, 2011
3:38 pm
The Falcons are moving to Los Angeles
Mike Smith
May 22nd, 2011
3:41 pm
I dont think this is an Atlanta thing as much as it is a Southern thing. College sports (especially football) have dominated the South for a century in the same way Pro sports have dominated elsewhere. I think Falcon and Hawks fans are good in general. If the team is any good, they support it. The Braves turned things around with their run under Cox. They do pretty well attendance wise. The problem with the Thrashers is they just never got off the ground right. They were close but not quite, so after the newness of the team wore off, there has been very little for fans to rally around. Hockey isnt exactly popular down here either. Any NHL team that resides in the South had better be good or the fans wont latch onto it.
Atlanta Dis-Spirit
May 22nd, 2011
3:42 pm
Mark – thanks for saying what we all were thinking. The Thrashers really never had a chance with the Spirit.
Darrel
May 22nd, 2011
3:45 pm
Atlanta is not much different than any other town. They support a winner, but they did not support the Braves as much as they should have. Don’t get me wrong, they do support the Braves, but I would not call them a passionate fan base. Making the playoffs does spoil fans. The Braves did not sell out their games as the consecutive playoff streak went on. They wouldn’t get excited until maybe the NLCS. It happens in other towns too. The fail should go to Atlanta Spirit marketing. They did nothing to make Thrashers games THE place to be. In Dallas, they established an exclusive club with entertainment after the game. It made people want to go, even if they weren’t into hockey as much as a true fan would be. I love hockey, so I went often. The Spirit did little to nothing to attract new fans. A commitment to winning would have helped too. Watching Heatley, Kovy, Kari and Hossa all leave did not do much to make fans feel good about this team.
KC
May 22nd, 2011
3:53 pm
There are too many sports teams.
John R
May 22nd, 2011
3:57 pm
I think the biggest issue limiting passion for the local pro sports franchises is that Atlanta is a city of transplants, with half the population living here less than 20 years. With the ability to follow the team you grew up with ( from whatever city you came from) via the internet, cable tv and satellite tv, those old ties are more significant than they would have been a generation ago. Of course if the local teams won more some of those old ties would be severed far more easily.
ken
May 22nd, 2011
3:58 pm
An article showing the incompetent ownership that Atlanta sports teams have had would be more revealing. ASG and Bruce L. are real winners, right!
Mark Bradley`s Booster
May 22nd, 2011
4:01 pm
Mark: Your faithful Booster has a question: How do you mean that Atlanta is a good college sports team? Are you talking about UGA fans only? Reason I ask is because GT hardly every sells out a game unless its UGA or Clemson. At these games that are sold out many are visiting team fans.
Legend of Len Barker
May 22nd, 2011
4:05 pm
I watch the Braves whenever I’m home and I’m currently keeping up with today’s game via ESPN Gamecast. I don’t miss the Falcons on TV.
I don’t go games themselves. Why? Atlanta has made it impossible. I hate the traffic, MARTA is an expensive joke, and when I lived in south Georgia, it was a minimum of a four hour drive each way. Throw in the cost of food and a tank of gas and Atlanta’s sporting teams eat a hole in your wallet.
The Braves in particular represent more than just Atlanta. They’re the whole southeast and parts of Montana, the Dakotas, Idaho, and back in the 1980s there were more Braves fans in Houston than there were Astros fans.
Atlanta punishes its sports fans. I predicted the Falcons would lose early in the playoffs this year, since it felt very similar to 1980. The Braves have been darn predictable for 10 years. The Hawks are a mess and I’m not sure what ice hockey is; my family is still amused when I send them pictures of snow from north Georgia. We are still Losersville USA, just with a better winning percentage.
kirkinga
May 22nd, 2011
4:09 pm
I think there has traditionally been a very large segment of the population that is more inclined toward college sports, football especially, but that does not explain the entire issue.
There are lots of degree holders in Atlanta who did not graduate from an SEC or ACC school. Fir example, what about those who graduated from HBCU’s or smaller division schools. They love their football too, but their teams may not be as accessible.
When our pro teams gives fans teams that they can embrace and that win, then they show up for games. At one time, the Hawks were the toast of the town. They played hard and represented the city well. Then they hit a ceiling and interest went on the decline for a long time. Now the Hawks are a talented team, but they are not fully embraced for a number of reasons, but mostly because they do not play hard all of the time.
The Falcons do play hard all the time, but they have deficiencies still. The fans have confidence, at this point, that ownership and team management understand what needs to be addressed, and will take action. Time will tell if this group can deliver, and if they don’t, it will not matter where you put a new stadium because the fans will not embrace a perennially mediocre team.
The Braves suffer from ownership issues, as well as poor city planning. I hope at some point, those in charge will extend rail to the stadium. Had they done so in the first place, we would see more fans at Turner Field. The Braves also suffer from a poor PR image with a large segment of fans. It started with the naming of the new stadium, and it continues today. Atlanta is no longer the city is was in the 70’s,80’s, or 90’s for that matter. The key for the Braves is acquiring talent and reaching out to all of the team’s fans. I know this is controversial, especially in the Atlanta blogosphere, put there is a perceived hostility by too many who would otherwise pay to see the team.
The Braves are also hurt by the legacy of Channel 17. Fans are use to being able to sit at home and watch long before there was an ESPN, or Fox Sports South.
Atlanta is a great sports opportunity for smart owners who have a desire to win that is reflected on the field of play.
lombardi
May 22nd, 2011
4:09 pm
I don’t think of us as a lousy sports town at all. You hit on a critical point Mark, critical to success, is mgmt. style. The Spirit makes Hugh Culverhouse an appealing option, (yes, I know he’s dead).
And mgmt locale? Yeh, I can put my baseball jones commitment around the bean counters of Liberty Media 1800 miles away. As a WingNut originally from Detroit, I hate to see the Thrashers / the NHL go, but survival was doomed long ago.
Arthur’s proved the obvious, the product has to be A+. And for that to happen, A+ starts at the top and permeates the entire enterprise. When we get the right owner(s), Atlanta will be a beast for pro sports.
reality
May 22nd, 2011
4:18 pm
With Atlanta teams history of one and done coupled with the fact Atlantan’s actually have lifes unlike those pathetic miserable northern fans it is understandable why Atl fans are apathetic.
sunny purdue
May 22nd, 2011
4:20 pm
Mark – this is an great analysis and clear statement about our town, its teams and the owners.
loserville
May 22nd, 2011
4:23 pm
atlanta–one of the 3 worst sports cities in the u.s. including miami and LA.
Bring Back Vick!
May 22nd, 2011
4:24 pm
When Atlanta ran Mike Vick out of town, I lost interest in the falcons, the only team worth following. the braves and hawks are mediocre every year. The braves had 1 fluke title in the 90s in the strike year. The city is an embarrassment to sports. I may move back to Jersey when the economy picks up.
wxwax
May 22nd, 2011
4:37 pm
I’d buy the college football argument more readily if Georgia Tech sold out its games.
How can a city be a good sports city if its population is a fan of teams elsewhere in the country?
That’s like saying the United Nations is a great country.