Would it be so terrible if the Spirit hung on to the Hawks?
"Hey! We never liked hockey anyway! We can still do this!" (AJC photo by Brant Sanderlin)
Let’s say the Atlanta Spirit sells the Thrashers, who move to Winnipeg or wherever. Let’s say the Spirit decides to keep the Hawks — perhaps with an infusion of cash from new co-owners, perhaps with just these same guys running one fewer franchise. Would that be the worst possible result for Atlanta?
Wait, wait. Don’t all scream at once.
The Spirit has done a lousy job with the hockey club. On this we can agree. But the Hawks have won a playoff series in each of the past three seasons. Alongside their Atlanta sports brethren, that should make them kings of our city. (Falcons: No playoff victories since January 2005. Braves: No postseason series victories since October 2001.)
Has the Spirit made strange decisions? Absolutely. It overpaid for Joe Johnson — overpaid twice, if you listened to Steve Belkin back in 2005 — and underpaid for Mike Woodson’s successor. But in March 2004 the Spirit took ownership of a team that would finish 13-69 the next season, and seven years later we deemed a 44-38 regular season a raging disappointment.
Esteemed colleague Tim Tucker reported yesterday that the Spirit has entered into an exclusive negotiating period with John Moores regarding the sale of the Hawks and Philips Arena. We stress that no deal is imminent, but we also need ask: Would he be an upgrade?
Moores has owned the San Diego Padres since 1994. He has been forced to scale back his interest in the club because he and his wife divorced, and California law divides assets straight down the severed marital line. He’s still listed as chairman, but his ownership stake is being reduced over a five-year purchase plan. Moores has moved to Houston and is rarely seen around the Padres’ PETCO Park, the stadium he helped get built.
The Padres have had seven winning seasons and won four division titles over Moores’ 16-plus years as owner. They reached the 1998 World Series by beating the Braves. Under Moores, the Padre payroll has never ranked higher than 14th among the 30 MLB clubs, and 10 times it has been 20th or lower. (This according to USA Today’s handy salary database.) It was 29th in 2009 and 2010 and is 27th now. Fun fact: The Padres are paying $25 million less for their current roster than the Hawks spent on their 2010-2011 squad — and a baseball team has 10 more men.
Moores served as chairman of the board of Peregrine Systems, which filed for bankruptcy in 2003. He reportedly sold $600 million in Peregrine stock before the filing but was, as an outside director, found not to have had knowledge of a price-inflating scheme that led to sentences being brought against 13 others. Also: His gifts — from airline tickets to use of a vacation home — to San Diego city councilwoman Valerie Stallings led to her resignation in 2001 but resulted in no charges against the Padres owner.
Loading ...To his credit, Moores has shown a knack for hiring good baseball men: From Larry Lucchino (now of the Red Sox) as CEO and president to Kevin Towers (now of the Diamondbacks) as general manager to Bruce Bochy (now of the Giants) as manager. But Moores isn’t apt to throw money at a team to make it better, and even if he were the NBA has a salary cap.
For all the nits we can pick with the Spirit, spending for players isn’t among them. The Hawks had the NBA’s seventh-highest payroll this season. (The Chicago Bulls had the 26th-highest.) We can and will argue over whether the Spirit has bought the right players, but we must also note that this spending has been done without much help at the gate. The Hawks ranked 22nd in attendance.
As much as we love to lampoon the Spirit — I’m as guilty as anyone — its ownership of the Hawks hasn’t been wretched. If these owners hadn’t started suing each other over the Johnson sign-and-trade; if the resulting litigation hadn’t keep the Spirit from selling the Thrashers to a more interested buyer five years ago; if GM Billy Knight had only drafted Deron Williams as opposed to Marvin Williams … well, perception would be rather different.
Belkin is finally out of the mix, and the Thrashers might be soon. Left to run just the Hawks, the Spirit might not seem so ham-handed. This team could get better under John Moores, who’s said to prefer basketball to baseball, but there’s no guarantee. Sometimes we get carried away and insist the Hawks have stunk forever, but the cold truth is that they haven’t stunk for a while now. The Spirit deserves some credit, does it not?
By Mark Bradley
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114 comments Add your comment
William Satterwhite
May 18th, 2011
6:59 pm
If Moores finances are on solid ground, he would be a much better owner than ASG. Before heaping too much credit on them, keep in mind that most of their basketball successes have been predicated on being the 4th-5th best team in a conference that only has 4-5 good teams. Winning a playoff round every year is nice and I won’t take away from that, but it’s less of an accomplishment when two of those have been 4 vs 5 matchups with the 3 higher seeds considered to be the only serious contenders in the conference.
Baseball is a totally different animal than the NBA and Moores track record shows he knows how to manage a team under less than ideal circumstances (people might not realize it but San Diego is actually one of the smallest markets in baseball). As mentioned earlier, ASG’s biggest problem is hiring smart people to run their teams, that is Moores greatest strength. Also, it must be pointed out that the two league low payrolls cited cover the years where Moores was going through his divorce. Again, if his finances are in order, Moores would be a great owner to remove the stench of ASG.
With all that being said, I think this column is wholly inappropriate considering that there is a strong belief that ASG is jettisoning the Thrashers simply to be able to devote more time and energy on the Hawks. The last thing we need is for a leading columnist to prop up the thought that that might not be a bad idea.
Slim
May 18th, 2011
7:00 pm
@Mitun
Jason Thompson is a lesser version of Horford. 6′10 jump shooter. But even worse defense.
And he is not a center. I don’t think Hawks need a player from Sacramento unless it’s Dalembert or Cousins and even then you have no bench rebounders.
Andrew Bogut/Larry Sanders/Josh Smith/Joe Johnson/Jeff Teague
Zaza Pachulia/Drew Gooden/Al Thornton/pg-sg/John Salmons
re-sign Collins?? I rather package Pape Sy for Semih Erden or a legit 6′11+ center.
Bogut, Sanders and Smith is more marketable than Al Horford who is more of a white-collar guy who all the coaches love. But when he has to face Garnett or Nowitzki or Pau Gasol or heck even Taj Gibson, their length bothers him and he can’t post up and has to shoot further and further out.
3.4 FTA per game for his career. Those are JJ’s #s.
I’d rather have 2 6′9 power forwards who can shoot and a real center in Bogut than Horford who does everything right but does not have the length, athleticism to score or defend. He will never be Dirk Nowitzki (7′0) or Zach Randolph (6′9). He’s a tweener like Amare without the dunking ability.
trade him along with Marvin Williams who is an Albatross and Hinrich. Bogut/Sanders/Salmons/Gooden. Might even get a pick for insurance of Bogut.
Then use the pick for Semih Erden and a lower pick. Keep maneuvring and stop finagling the fans.
We need more rebounding than Horford Smith and Williams lineup will ever give us and more defense. Next year Horford won’t even make the All-Star team. Only reason he did this year is Joakim Noah’s injury.
Hinrich, Williams, Horford for Bogut “2.6″ blocks per game, Sanders “3 blocks per 36 minutes and refs will get off my back”, Smith “230 lbs and I average near 3 blocks per game”
That frontcourt has more all-Star appearance than Horfords 16 and 10 on a good team and 20 and 10 on a bad team. Horford and Williams must go to net us a defensive center and more bigs.
Milwaukee “4th defensively” is the team to do it.
Not trading for Sacramento Kings, or Golden State Warriors bigs. We need/want defense (to compete right?) not “Al Horford” type volume shooters. Jason Thompson is Horford with less defense and more shooting.
Slim
May 18th, 2011
7:09 pm
Marvin Williams+Al Horford+Kirk Hinrich
for
Larry Sanders+Andrew Bogut+Drew Gooden+John Salmons (no Corey Maggette!)
::::
Start and develop Teague.
Start and develop Sanders.
Tell Josh to go back to two-a-days and become 230 not 245.
Time to let Crawford walk with Salmons a big guard who can post up a Rose or Jameer Nelson and score or make them switch onto Joe Johnson or Josh Smith on the wings.
Sign Al Thornton. big guard/small forward $2 mil.
Re-sign Collins for $1 mil.
Sign practice/backup guard to mentor/practice against Teague. Salmons should be enough but just in case. We need a C.J. Watson type. Preferably Sundiata Gaines or worse defensivelu Ronnie Price. Or ASG could go the cheap way with Pape Sy.
clutch
May 18th, 2011
7:15 pm
yes jj is overpaid now but jj was underpaid with his first contract with the hawks. Also, i would rather have an overpaid jj than not have him and be in the lottery.
"Chef" Tim Dix
May 18th, 2011
7:17 pm
Your spending on JJ doesn’t represent them being up against the cap the upcoming season or preping for the upcoming CBA….How ’bout how how do we get our center back from ORL?
Dawg A
May 18th, 2011
7:19 pm
Mark…. you will do anything to get a rise out of your followers. But this is crazy!!! The ASG is just like the Smiths were to the Falcons. I am not saying the guy from San Diego is the answer… but the ASG are a bunch of idiots! They have to go!
ryan
May 18th, 2011
7:37 pm
Does not seem like Moores or the ASG is the answer why can we not ever have a good owner its like we are jinked we need owner that loves Atlanta loves basketball does what ever it to win a championship like an Author Blank why can’t he buy the Hawks .
Blondie
May 18th, 2011
7:41 pm
The Spirit needs to die. I’m sorry – but they are as unpassionate about their teams as Rankin Smith’s children were of the Falcons. They do enough just to get by and not enough to win. Going to the playoffs, while important, is not as important as a championship.
And I love all the flack going around for the Thrashers not bringing home a Stanley Cup in a decade, but in a decade the Hawks haven’t brought home an O’Brien EITHER. And that’s with a helluva lot more money being pumped into them than the Thrashers -who were consistently held under the salary cap.
If they don’t sell the Hawks -get ready to see the headlines saying “our fans just don’t support us” when they raise ticket prices and don’t produce results. You think Hawks fans will stick around and take it on the chin either? Yeah, it’s totally the fans fault, ASG. Riiiiight.
real talk
May 18th, 2011
7:47 pm
GOOD RIDDANCE ATLANTA SPIRIT!!! Your years of mismanagement and poor drafting are soon to be over. Please sell this team to somebody who actually cares about building the brand!!! I seriously believe that they are the worst management team in the NBA. Still upset at the Marvin Williams draft pick!!! Now look at Chris Paul.
DMR
May 18th, 2011
7:50 pm
The year the Hawks won 13 or 14 games, I think Al Horford was just out of college. Point being that youth and inexperience was a major part of the problem. Under Woodson, the team got better each year. How much of that do you attribute that to Woodson and how much to just aging, maturity, and playing experience.
Now the Hawks have gotten better over the last several years despite the assanine decisions made by this Ownership group.
We change coaches when we believe they have taken a team as far as it can go. The Spirit proved they were never paying much attention to the Thrashers in any case. I want the Spirit group out of the Atlanta sports business.
I want new ownership, as opposed to a bunch of guys who portray themselves as the know-it-alls of basketball and tell the fans they know nothing. Although fans were smart enough to know not picking Chris Paul was idiotic and paying Joe Johnson a max contract was franchise suicide.
real talk
May 18th, 2011
7:58 pm
How the hell did they miss Chris Paul, I mean a guy who wanted to come to Atlanta. I believe with decisions like that, they should all go jump off a bridge. Stay off of the alcohol please atlanta spirit
Thrasher Fan
May 18th, 2011
8:11 pm
They will never ever be forgiven for running the hockey team into the ground and out of town. The crossover fans are gone with vows of boycotts of Hawks and Philips as long as they are around. They are seen as the scourge of Atlanta.
Paddy
May 18th, 2011
8:30 pm
ryan….you are kidding right; “Atlanta loves basketball” WOW, you must live in Vermont!
Jackets 2011
May 18th, 2011
8:32 pm
If you are not proceeding toward a championship then you are just wasting everyone’s time and money. I have not bought a Hawks ticket since Nique played.
Did I miss anything?
Yes, disappointment and a lighter wallet.
I’ll keep mime heavy, thank you.
jj acts like a va-jj
May 18th, 2011
8:33 pm
u must like mediocrity bradley cuz keeping ASG wud be admitting just that, we are mediocre and its ok. its not ok. drafting marvin was not ok. drafting sheldon was not ok. jj’s contract, guess what? NOT OK. their time has come. its time for them to move on. we (atl) do not like them sam i am. i will no longer eat their green eggs and ham. deuces.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 18th, 2011
8:52 pm
“The year the Hawks won 13 or 14 games, I think Al Horford was just out of college. ”
Nah, he was in his first year at Florida. Smoove was on the Hawks and in his first year out of high school. The Hawks’ leading scorers that year were Antoine Walker and Al Harrington.
money talks
May 18th, 2011
8:56 pm
this ownership group is a bunch of losers. Hopefully, they sell the team to someone who knows how to hire a top GM, coach and personnel people.
kreedham
May 18th, 2011
8:57 pm
I understand what your saying Mark but the Spirit has already done irreversible damage to their image.and reputation. If the Hawks start regressing some of the blame will be on the coach, some on the players, some on the GM but most on the Spirit group!
If anyone stays let it be the Gearons…they actually care about BB but with other (as few as possible and certainly not 7 in all) owners.
Ed
May 18th, 2011
8:57 pm
The Spirit is the worst ownership group in history. I used to work for them. They dont care about the teams, the players, or worst of all, the fans. They couldnt care less. All they care about is revenue reports. They treat anyone and everyone like crap just because they feel like they are entitled to. If you really care about these teams, you will refuse to support the Spirit.
Unbelievable
May 18th, 2011
9:04 pm
I’m actually offended that a writer would even suggest such a thing. People always talk about Atlanta and mediocrity and I usually defend my city when this is said. Stuff like this doesn’t help.
thevoice
May 18th, 2011
9:13 pm
All of Atlanta pro sports franchise owners are not concerned about winning championships as long as we keep buying tickets, and spending our money on concessions, gifts and sports gear etc… They are cooperate business men who feed consumers a bunch of BS, so that we will continue to spend money and expect no return on our investments and I DO; for now, (especially pending the current contract issues and the weariness of being heckled by WINNING teams) buy sports tickets etc…
These people are losers with a looser mentality which is why they try to market a couple of wins as something great, saying that fans should be proud of winning little yet losing everything, and to continue supporting these losing teams. From the Atlanta Flames hockey team, Thrashers, Falcons and Braves the Atlanta sports franchises have only ONE freaking Championship in a combination of 146 pro sports years, and there are teams that are less than a decade old with more National Championships than us or are already closer to winning a few… How long do we suppose to suffer through these demoralizing relationships that build us up and then crush our hopes? And we have losers who camouflage themselves as optimist who continue to make a case for being 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th or maybe even 22nd best in the league…Really!
Forget that, Atlanta has suffered enough, it is either Championships (plural) or losers (plural again) and anyone out there that settles for anything less you know which category you represent. I am an Atlanta native and I am a Champion and expect everything and everyone representing Atlanta to speak, think, live and peruse the same mind and that’s got that!
TheVoice
A Champion
Ted Striker
May 18th, 2011
9:18 pm
I understand the intense frustration with the Spirit Group. However I don’t get some of the insults and maliciousness directed at them.
If they were as malicious as some who post, the owners would gut the franchise and say “stick it.”
thevoice
May 18th, 2011
9:30 pm
Per Ted Sriker:
The city of Atlanta would then step in and market for a new team and owner to replace them because of the economic impact that may ensue, that’s when it will become more political than personal, so scraping the team wouldn’t be a great threat to fans, though we would have be without a team for a short period.
TheVoice
Double Zero Eight
May 18th, 2011
9:54 pm
This must be a trick question!!!
The obvious answer is YES!
Chadwick
May 18th, 2011
10:23 pm
They’re part and parcel of the problem with both of the franchises as they’ve been behind most of the poor hires. Waddell was awful and they encouraged him to be so and Sund’s rep is of a GM that does it on the cheap, same as the Drew hire. Nothing against Drew personally, but that was a money decision.
The thing about this gang that I can’t forgive is the lying. Levenson, Gearon and Seydel have spent the last six years deceiving the fans of the Thrashers. Why should such an unethical group of owners be trusted in the future? They’re LIARS.
Tn Hawk
May 18th, 2011
10:24 pm
Mark, you have a point! If we go from 7th highest salary to middle of the pack, results might not be any better.
Too bad no one else will acknowledge this.
J
May 18th, 2011
10:50 pm
Hello,
The Hawks actually have the 7th highest Payroll in the NBA so it is hard to call them really cheap when it comes to Player Salaries. They have been cheap when it comes to Coaches and GM’s, but Rick Sund is a damn sight better than Billy Knight. The Marvin and Shelden Williams Picks are amongst the worst Draft Picks ever by any Team.
Player Development has been an utter disgrace. Heinrich getting injured turned out being a blessing in disguise in that finally Drew was practically forced to play Teague real minutes and without the fear that any mistake would result in him being benched. I think thanks to national exposure, it will be almost impossible to keep Teague from the Starting Lineup.
Thank God this is supposed to be one of the worst Drafts ever as giving up a 1st Rounder and JC2 who put up some nice stats for the Wizards still stings. Props to the Wizards for getting 2 1st Round Picks for the same Player, once for simply taking him off the Bulls hands when they were clearing Cap Space and ours when Sund felt we had to have him. I wonder if such a scenario has ever happened before?
Cheers,
J
Wabe
May 18th, 2011
11:26 pm
Co-sign most of what Najeh’s said.
Truth is, this ownership group is a joke.
BravesFan79
May 18th, 2011
11:50 pm
Im one of the few that voted “great” They did what all sports fans want their teams to do, and thats spend $ to get better players! The drafting of Marvin, etc… was due to Billy Knight and i put all the blame for that on him. Where they can improve is by bringing in a top level coach like Jeff Van Gundy and making the Hawks one of the top defensive teams in the league.
4 jacks
May 18th, 2011
11:51 pm
Hell Mark, these spirit guys have proven they are pathetic owners, they can’t even hold on to their peckers without it becoming a disaster. Everyone of these guys should be run out of town. They are liers and pathetic losers, and have certainly betrayed the true Atlanta sports fans, and if they do keep the Hawks I hope everyone will stay at home and these losers will end in a bankrutcy court, losing most of what the losers have.
BravesFan79
May 19th, 2011
12:05 am
They spend $$, thats what all sports fans want their teams to do. The drafting of Williams and Williams were Billy Knights fault!
They could improve by hiring a top coach like Jeff Van Gundy to come take the Hawks to new heights and be one of the top defensive teams in the league.
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WTF!?
May 19th, 2011
12:34 am
Mark! Are you high?
Andre
May 19th, 2011
1:06 am
Yes, they’re worse than the Clampetts.
Knockahoma
May 19th, 2011
1:28 am
I agree that the Spirit show interest in fielding a competitive basketball team. However, they put Billy “I only draft forwards” Knight in charge, and they don’t have a steller track record providing leadership or putting the right people in leadership roles.
Bottom line the team is a reflection of the dysfunction at the top. The coach is there to keep the players happy, and the player who is supposed to be the team’s leader is a reluctant leader at best.
I agree that they seem to want to do what it takes to win in the NBA, but they also can’t seem to get out of their own way.
Buddy Grizzard
May 19th, 2011
1:52 am
“The Spirit deserves some credit, does it not?”
Certainly, and it will deserve even more if it does the right thing now and fires Larry Drew. The window where you have sufficient talent to compete for a championship closes very fast. Drew demonstrably lost several playoff games with his amateurish substitutions. Additionally, he does not have the respect of the players. They need a coach they can respect and buy into to make it to the conference finals this upcoming season. Drew was clearly overmatched against Thibs, and Thibs makes less than $1m more per season than Drew. They made the wrong coaching hire. Admit your mistake, fix it, and give the Atlanta fans hope that the Hawks can build on what they’ve done up to this point.
Buddy Grizzard
May 19th, 2011
2:00 am
“Oh yeah, and let’s not act like the Hawks being 22nd in attendance has nothing to do with ownership.” – Najeh
You shouldn’t give $120m to a guy who doesn’t care if the fans show up if you have some interest in the fans showing up. Nevertheless, the Hawks were impressive in the playoffs this year and almost got past CHI in spite of Drew’s sub-professional coaching. Want to win the confidence of the fans? Payroll is capped but you can still hire another coach and pay him anything you want.
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the CZAR
May 19th, 2011
3:04 am
Since Hawks have no big time players on their team, Mike Fratello could work wonders for this team. Make them a threat again but NBA has its own marketing program . Hawks are not in the loop .It’s all designed to be that way. Hawks are meant to be a joke. Get them out of Atlanta and move back to St.Louis.Then maybe they can sneak a Championship in again before being run out of town by the mighty Cardinals for the second time..
tree rollins
May 19th, 2011
4:14 am
Having read the hawks discussion threads in the AJC the past two years, without knowledge of standings, I would guess the Hawks franchise were the biggest disaster in the NBA.
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hawk joe
May 19th, 2011
6:57 am
Hawks were right where they needed to be to build a winner, the only problem is the Billy Knight was making the picks. If the Hawks did not have aGM and drafted what the online mocks said, they would of taken Luol Deng instead of Childress, Chris Paul not Marvin, and anyone but Sheldon Williams. Everyone is talking about trading Marvin, no one wants him. To trade him you will need to take back an equally bad contract. This team will hamstrung until they run out JJ’s contract. He skills have already begun to deteriorate.
Willy
May 19th, 2011
7:19 am
If there are misconceptions here perhaps it speaks to the power of journalism.
BALI ..
May 19th, 2011
8:04 am
believe the hawks need a new direction with a new owner….one owner…..san diego hawks sounds good to me
Finchdawg
May 19th, 2011
8:42 am
Kings of the city? Come on, Mark. They advanced to the final 8 in the NBA. That’s where the Falcons were this year in the NFL. That’s where the Braves were in MLB last year. If the MLB playoff field was as large as the NBA the Braves surely would have won a playoff series or two in the past decade.
GTT
May 19th, 2011
8:44 am
Yes.
Peter
May 19th, 2011
8:52 am
Yes it means they will never get it right……besides they suck to do business with !
BjohnDawg
May 19th, 2011
9:17 am
Yes it would. Ownership at its worst.
yeahsure
May 19th, 2011
9:34 am
Oh god, here we go. Another class MB article.
Yes, Hawks have made the playoffs the last few years. But we shouldn’t aim for mediocrity. Can you imagine where this franchise could have been with the right decisions?! Of course hindsight is 20/20 but even my little sister could have made better decisions than Billy and ASG. Even if we sweep Knight’s decisions under the rug as past mistakes, how can we forgive the current ones. Max contract for Joe, hiring LD, trading JC and 1st round pick, not utilyzing Teague (when everyone and their mom knew of his potential).
Instead of the greatness that could have been with the obvious decisions, Hawks are known around the league as immature, inconsistent, lacking discipline, quitters. Its time to say bye to ASG.
Tom
May 19th, 2011
9:39 am
I know all about Moores because I was a small investor in Peregrine Systems. He did manage to escape indictment but it was hard for me to believe that he didn’t know what was going on. Regarding the amount of stock that he coincidentally sold right before everything fell apart, the Wikipedia entry for Peregrine Systems lists the amount as over $800 million, not the $600 million figure that you gave. Other sources also list the number as over $800 million.