Hawks for sale! Thrashers for sale! But only one stands to exit
At least one of the Spirit's teams will be here next year. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
According to esteemed colleague Tim Tucker, the Atlanta Spirit — corporate motto: Everything Must Go! — has entered into an exclusive negotiating agreement with outgoing San Diego Padres owners John Moores to buy the Hawks and Philips Arena. This is major news. But here we offer a couple of caveats:
• Exclusive negotiating agreements aren’t all they’re cracked up to be, especially when it concerns the Hawks, the Thrashers and Philips Arena. the Texas car dealer David McDavid had one of those with Time Warner in April 2003, and you see what it got him. (Actually, it got him $281 million from Time Warner after the conglomerate sold the teams and the building to the Spirit instead.)
• That the Spirit has entered into a negotiating agreement with someone who would agree to keep the Hawks in Atlanta — and it’d be pretty hard to uproot Philips Arena and move it to Manitoba — shouldn’t be taken as a sign that the Thrashers’ apparently imminent departure is any less imminent. On the contrary.
The Spirit has now taken the corporate step of separating its teams. So far as we know, there’s no exclusive negotiating agreement in place for anyone regarding the Thrashers. The issue of Atlanta’s hockey club remains as it was 24 hours ago: With no credible buyer willing to take the team and keep it here, the Spirit has begun discussions with True North Sports and Entertainment, which has an arena sitting open in Winnipeg.
The Hawks, as Tucker notes, were never going anywhere: The bonds floated when the arena was being built maintain that the Hawks have to play their home games in Philips until the bonds are paid off — in 2028. There’s no such legal constraint holding the Thrashers here.
Regarding this complicated tale — by now, we should know that anything involving the Spirit will have permutations by the boatload — here’s where we are: The Hawks are staying, though possibly under different ownership, while the Thrashers inch ever closer toward the door.
By Mark Bradley
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198 comments Add your comment
PMC
May 17th, 2011
10:45 pm
Sorry, that was 2008. Here is the more current link. The value has improved slightly but they certainly aren’t profitable.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/31/hockey-valuations-10_New-York-Islanders_312071.html
EDIMGIUSAFAD
May 17th, 2011
10:46 pm
The clowns in Minipeg couldn’t make it work with the jets, now they can make it with the thrashers??? Right…………..
PMC
May 17th, 2011
10:48 pm
then, if anyone cares, you can go see that the Thrashers actually made money for a couple of years. Compare that to the horrible waste that is the Coyotes, and Glendale is actually paying money to keep them in town? I guess they are going to send their prisoners to games.
Let me pat our mayor on the back for NOT stepping in and wasting public funds for that kind of stupidity.
Berens
May 17th, 2011
10:50 pm
Vivlamore said today that the long-rumoured deep-pocketed saviour dubbed ‘The Balkan’ outed today as J.B Smith has been involved in previous sports franchise investment talks and has never been able to prove his financing was in place.
“Smith is not a credible person” to be considered as a candidate to buy the Thrashers, Vivlamore said. “He’s previously met with Atlanta Spirit Group (ASG) and when asked to show his financials, he was unable to.”
Vivlamore added that Smith’s only response to the request was to suggest that his money was “in China.”
Smith was allegedly looking to purchase the Thrashers, the NBA’s Atlanta Hawks and the rights to the Philips Arena – the entire sports asset base held by ASG. But Vivlamore confirmed that a group currently has exclusivity in negotiations for the Hawks and the arena as a pair, excluding the Thrashers in the agreement.
A second group reportedly made an offer for the Thrashers, but Vivlamore clarified that they presented a basic “term sheet” which is a one-page document outlining the terms of a possible sale agreement. Vivlamore said the term sheet did not gain traction with ASG.
GO JETS GO
Malcolm Reynolds
May 17th, 2011
10:51 pm
Welcome your San Diego Hawks!
PMC
May 17th, 2011
10:56 pm
All of our money is in china, so to speak.
Thrasher fan
May 17th, 2011
10:57 pm
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/True-North-seeking-debt-help-from-govt-in-NHL-bid-122067534.html. True north can’t even do deal without Canadian govt help going in.
@edimguisfag
May 17th, 2011
10:57 pm
wake up tool, little late in the game for lame comments like that. How but some more depth? Our owner has so much money he’s probably buying the Hawks too just to add to the sting of the loss. We care even less about basketball than you do about hockey.
@Thrasher fan
May 17th, 2011
10:59 pm
If the money is there why not take it. But I guarantee it will be a lot less than the FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS inbred Mayor Scruggs gave the NHL last week for a LAME DUCK MONEY LOSING FRANCHISE in one of the MOST CONSERVATIVE STATES IN THE COUNTRY WITH ONE OF THE WORST ECONOMIES.
Keep Hockey in Atlanta
May 17th, 2011
10:59 pm
The NHL seriously needs to dump NBC and Versus and go back to ESPN. Tuesday and Thursday night hockey was something to look forward to. Also @ OHL I freaking love Olympic hockey but it sucks that alot of it comes on MSNBC which I don’t get. Winter Classic? It’s on the same day as major college bowls and on a far inferior channel(NBC).
AtlFlamesFan
May 17th, 2011
11:03 pm
I don’t think the govt financing of the building’s debt is a big deal. Philips is backed by bonds tied to the Hawks playing there. The Manitoba govt never financed their arena because there was no team there yet. If the Thrashers move there, then govt financing of the bonds would be just like the Hawks tied to Philips.
Atlfan
May 17th, 2011
11:03 pm
“Atlfan those cities might be losing some population, but they still kill when it comes to tv ratings.”
Of course they do, they’ve been around longer. The point is the population in the US is trending away from those cities and the future of the league will probably be better if they put down roots in the cities where the population is going so they can build a solid base of fans. It doesn’t happen overnight and especially with a product that has been as bad as the Thrashers but given their rapid expansion into these cities its apparent they saw something in these markets that they wanted. The NHL already falls well behind the NFL, and the NBA and MLB in the US. If they don’t find success in these growing markets they could find themselves falling behind the MLS and since all the league’s at the end of the day are businesses they might not like that. Its not just about whats happening today in the NHL but what the future holds for this league.
Coach Dooley
May 17th, 2011
11:07 pm
The best thing that could happen to the Hawks would be new ownership. That knows what they are doing. We have seen this movie before with the Falcons and the Smith family and suffered for years as a result.
4 jacks
May 17th, 2011
11:09 pm
The Atlanta Spirit Group should absolutely be ashamed of what they have done to the average sports fan in Atlanta. These guys are pathetic losers, no if, and, or buts. They have betrayed everything thing associated with sports in this town where the hawks and Thrashers are concerned. Now the sorry pathetic loser are suing King and Spalding trying to recoup some of the money they have lost. Like the spoiled little rich kids that they are they will blame sombody else trying to cover their on azz. I hope everyone of these pukes in up in bankruptcy and are totally humiliated, as that is the best they deserve. Go F off you sorry excuses for owners and thank for effing nothing…you guys suck plain and simple.
boogaloo
May 17th, 2011
11:12 pm
The most inside comment I heard today that I can’t believe didn’t come out earlier is that the Hawks, the Thrashers AND the arena are all for sale but the potential owner has no interest in the Thrashers – so the only way for ownership to keep the Thrashers in Atlanta is to sell the Hawks and the arena and then rent or least 50 or so dates a year from the new owners putting them in an even worse position with no revenue from concessions and relying solely on TV and Gate revenue.
NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
And while it may be unseemly that Winnipeg is now asking for government assistance to purchase the Thrashers, you have to know that because that fact has never leaked before that they held that VERY close to the vest – the very fact that they even asked the question of the Manitoba government shows that a deal is all but done.
Unless Mayor Sruggs gets elected in Atlanta in the next 48 hours, Thrashers and their stank record are on their way north.
Coach Dooley
May 17th, 2011
11:13 pm
They are nothing but jock sniffers that know nothing about how to build and run an NBA team.
Keep Hockey in Atlanta
May 17th, 2011
11:15 pm
If the Winnipeggers are already asking for bailout money then that should throw up a red flag right there.
Fred
May 17th, 2011
11:18 pm
Its a sad day when you lose a major team from your city. Would love for Thrasher to stay.
Yesssssssssssssssssssss Please sell the Hawks to someone who cares! I hate the Spirits group, what a joke for owners.
Berens
May 17th, 2011
11:22 pm
its not ‘bailout’ money, its a low interest government loan. And tough to take any criticism from a country that has subsidized 15 of the 20 billion dollars spent on sports stadiums in the United states since 1980. Many facilities, not just sports facilities, receive government backing because of the contribution their success makes to the economy.
Gordon
May 17th, 2011
11:23 pm
Hell isn’t hot enough for Bruce Levenson and Michael Gearon, JR.
However, it’ll do.
Keep Hockey in Atlanta
May 17th, 2011
11:26 pm
Where’s SEAL Team Six when ya need them?
Just Me
May 17th, 2011
11:29 pm
How may guys are on a Hockey team?
So 20 or so white guys without a job? Sounds just like everybody else.
Basketball has what 15 players?
So, another 15 blacks over paid workers without a job? Sounds like what needs to happen most Government workers.
Lets get a Soccer team! Hire 20 something Illegal Hispanics to do a Job nobody wants and get paid less than they are worth. Sounds like most of America.
Atlanta Spirit Sucks
May 17th, 2011
11:31 pm
Smith wants to buy the whole thing. The Spirit Clowns are trying to block that sale with the “exclusive negotiations” with Moores.
Moores is a cheap ass, just like the Spirit Clowns. Moores can’t afford all three, Hawks, Thrashers, and the Arena. That’s the problem.
Jay Clemons has already resigned his Sports Illustrated job to join Reign Sports.
Too many people are writing off Smith and Reign Sports.
Goick
May 17th, 2011
11:32 pm
If the team can’t stay in Georgia, it must go to Winnipeg, and there appears to be, according to pretty much every report out there, no way for the team to maintain its current address. Oddly enough, it’s basically the same scenario in which Winnipeg lost the Jets to Phoenix. Barry Shenkarow wanted out, there was no one willing to own the team in the Manitoba capital and the city had no interest in investing millions in the hockey club.
In the end, there was no longer anything tethering the team to Winnipeg, and that’s pretty much where we are with the Thrashers, apparently. The best that can be said if this happens is that the Thrashers lasted longer in the Deep South (11 years) than did their NHL ancestors, the Flames (eight years).
Still, while all of this might seem to add up to Winnipeg having a new NHL club soon, let’s wait on that, just to be on the safe side. It would take something along the lines of the silly politicians in Donkeytown (alias Glendale) ponying up $25 million annually to support the Phoenix Coyotes to save the Thrashers now, but Bettman and his people are resourceful and smart and you know that given their druthers, they’d surely prefer this franchise in Atlanta than Manitoba.
The other possibility would be that talks between the Atlanta Spirit ownership group and True North Sports and Entertainment in Winnipeg fall apart. Maybe Bruce Levensen and his group will ask too much for their failed hockey club. Perhaps Chipman and Thomson will object to a relocation fee, or to paying upwards of $170 million for a team that most estimate really is only worth something in the neighborhood of $60 million. ( not a typo, only 60 million)
No deal was in place on Monday. President Don Waddell said the team is “exploring all options with respect to the future of the Thrashers.”
Some are suggesting there will be a sale agreement by Friday, but then, we should all know from the Phoenix gong show that these stories have a way of generating false deadlines. Still, the NHL has a schedule to put out by June 15, so time is short and reports are suggesting the math on including Winnipeg in the mix is being computed.
There is great debate in here as to whether the city failed the Thrashers or the Thrashers, through incompetence, failed the city. That distinction matters in Atlanta, but probably nowhere else.
The larger perspective is that while the 1997 expansion plan that added Nashville, Columbus, Minnesota and Atlanta to the league might not be a total failure, it certainly didn’t strengthen the league at all. All four clubs lose money, and only the Blue Jackets have the same owner as they started with.
It was a rash, foolhardy and greed driven attempt to bloat the league to 30 teams, and it has ended up being a negative, not to mention a drain on league coffers through revenue sharing.
Moreover, not a single new market has opened up its doors to the league since, unless you count Kansas City. For three decades, the NHL governors could always count on there being new cities out there willing to build arenas and pay expansion fees, but that well has run dry.
Growing to 30 teams from 21, meanwhile, has yielded a profitable franchise in San Jose and a team in Ottawa that had to be rescued from bankruptcy before becoming stable.
ALL OF THE ABOVE EQUALS BETTMAN INCOMPETENCE AT THE BEHEST OF GREEDY, INCOMPETENT OWNERS WHO COULD GIVE A CRAP ABOUT HOCKEY.
Falafal House
May 17th, 2011
11:33 pm
Guys… about that article about TNSE wanting financial assistance from the city of wpg. Relax, it is smart business… winnipeg has elections coming up this year and Greg Selinger wants to win so he is looking to cash in on “bringing the jets back to wpg” TNSE sees this and will have him pay his way into being part of this group and bringing back NHL to the city. Selinger just bought and won the election. Think it was just a coincidence that this article comes out now? TNSE are one tight smart crew. Go jets!
Atlanta Spirit Sucks
May 17th, 2011
11:33 pm
Berens – Most Thrashers would like to see Winnipeg get a team….via expansion, not poaching.
Falafal House
May 17th, 2011
11:36 pm
too many teams needing to be bailed out… NHL will not expand.
@Atlanta spirit
May 17th, 2011
11:37 pm
Its not poaching, its saving. If you ever want to cheer for the Thrashers again it will have to be in Winnipeg. If the sale to Winnipeg doesn’t happen your group of owners are just going to leave the keys on the floor on their way out and say to Bettman, ‘fine, you run it’.
The would lose less money walking away than running it another year.
money talks
May 17th, 2011
11:39 pm
the city of atlanta needs to kick in big money to save the hawks and thrashers. the owners are losing big money and it’s up to the city to pay whatever it takes to keep both teams—it’s good for the economy so the city can just raise taxes to pay all the money needed.
Bo
May 17th, 2011
11:40 pm
OHL
May 17th, 2011
9:11 pm
Miami and they are right behind you in relocation talks. Sorry for that term mistake.
———–
Actually not true. Panthers are tied to the arena deal, they can’t move for several years and the team makes money owning rights to all events that come to the arena.
P. Bull Terrier
May 17th, 2011
11:51 pm
Steve @ 8:25 hit the nail on the head. We all thought Steve Belkin was the bad guy, but it turns out he was the only ASG owner who had a clue. Too bad the court ruling went against him.
At this point, I would be willing to sacrifice the Thrashers if it meant getting a real owner for the Hawks. Moores may or may not be an improvement over the ASG, but I can’t imagine how he could be worse.
Atlanta Spirit Sucks
May 17th, 2011
11:52 pm
What most of you Peggers fail to comprehend is the manner in which the Spirit “enhance” the loses of the Hawks and Thrashers.
The ASG uses the “Arena Operations” unit to charge a “management fee” for each home game.
The ASG are the most disingenuous owners in the NHL. With a ownership change, Atlanta fans would flock back. Check the attendence numbers for the Thrashers since inception. When the general manager, Don Waddell, continued to get caught lying to the fans and the owners called the STHs “Smart Asses” at Towne Hall Meetings, attendence dwindled.
Give this a listen and you will understand the problem.
http://www.tsn.ca/window/podcastcentre.aspx?xmlURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tsn.ca%2Fpodcasts%2Ftsnpodcast.xml&mp3URL=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcast.tsn.ca%2Ftsnradio%2Fbouchard_051611.mp3
Most Thrasher fans have tried to be patient with the Peggers. We understand you “got hosed” before. We are hopeful, once you understand the underlying problem, that you would actually hope we can find good owners so we can once again sell out every home game again.
Ducks Fan
May 17th, 2011
11:55 pm
Mark, it takes a big man to admit when he’s wrong. And you, sir, are a giant among men much of the time.
Atlanta Spirit Sucks
May 17th, 2011
11:58 pm
P. Bull Terrier – Several years ago, the Thrashers drew more attendence than the Hawks. No one advocated sacrificing the Hawks. Both fan bases need to work together. I attend both.
Visit the Padres blogs and ask what they think of Moores, then tell me you’d rather have Moores.
Crazy Diamond
May 18th, 2011
12:03 am
Bill Gates or Warren Buffett and all their $$ money would not make hockey successful in Atlanta. Atlanta is not a hockey town. Period. No matter who owns the NHL franchise in Atlanta – it will fail. Might as well own a men’s field hockey team in Atlanta.
One can only hope that new ownership for the Hawks will make a difference. Pay a successful coach to manage your multi-million dollar player payroll and let’s go Hawks.
OHL
May 18th, 2011
12:13 am
PMC you still need to look at the whole picture. The Isles are barely profitable but they have the 2nd oldest rink in the league. They get barely any money from things like suites. If they can make as much money as they have on just what they’ve been getting, what happens when the vote comes this summer to give them a new arena. One with PUBLIC funding for all those making cracks about Winnipeg needing govt money. So once he gets that, look for that value to skyrocket. I would also ask if any public money went into Philips Arena, Turner Field or if the Falcons owner wants public money for a new Georgia Dome.
Chop Chop
May 18th, 2011
12:22 am
Shove off, you Crazy Diamond.
Hockey would do just fine in this town if an owner gave a damn about producing a good product. I like the young talent on this Thrashers squad, but the ownership has made little effort here. They are unwilling to spend money in order to bring playoff hockey to Atlanta on a regular basis. The only excuse for that is that these guys don’t give a damn about winning. They’ve only seen this team as an asset that must be sold. Fans of any sport should never abide that kind of mess.
Winnipeg Will Fail Again
May 18th, 2011
12:25 am
If Winnipeg gets another team, they will fail again. Coyotes players were already stating publically that they didn’t want to play there. Truth North is already begging for government assistance. It’s just a matter of time before payroll drops, top tier UFAs avoid the city, and the product sucks.
OHL
May 18th, 2011
12:28 am
PMC once Wang gets the vote this summer he will get an arena that has suites and all the other major revenue producers. What will that do to the Isles value then? For all the cracks about Winnipeg getting govt money, did Philips Arena get any govt money in the form of bonds? Does the owner of the Atlanta Falcons want the govt to build a new Georgia Dome? Was Turner Field built with any govt money from the Olympics? If Atlanta truly is a hockey town, we will see how many people in the market tune in to the Stanley Cup Finals. History says not many at all.
Atlanta Spirit Sucks
May 18th, 2011
12:39 am
Peggers listen to this to get a good taste of Team President Don Waddell and the Spirit Clowns
http://www.tsn.ca/window/podcastcentre.aspx?xmlURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tsn.ca%2Fpodcasts%2Ftsnpodcast.xml&mp3URL=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcast.tsn.ca%2Ftsnradio%2Fbouchard_051611.mp3
Just Me
May 18th, 2011
12:41 am
Look at ALL the seat wearing White T-Shirt in that photo. I guess we know the problem with teams playing in Phillips Arena. NOBODY CARES. All white boys on Ice or all black boys on Wood playing too many games in downtown Atlanta in the middle of the week. Who wants to go see that and risk their lives? NOBODY.
Atlanta Spirit Sucks
May 18th, 2011
12:41 am
If a plane, only containing the seven Spirit Clowns, were to crash, who would you hope survives?
The people on the ground.
Jo-Bu
May 18th, 2011
12:50 am
NHL: Hmmm…. let’s see, sell Thrashers and move them to Winnie, make $60 Million. I think it’s a no brianer. It’s the NHL that will be making big money off of this move and I think that’s why GB is not saying anything about saving the Thrashers.
As far as Atlanta not being a hockeytown. We packed the the house to the rafters when we made the post the first time. There’s a market here if we can get ownership that really cares about the game.
Summerteeth
May 18th, 2011
1:24 am
Georgia will support a good team. But the fact is, all these stadiums and arenas are in horrible locations. Turner Field is in the freakin ghetto for cryin out loud! Probably the biggest dump of a stadium in professional sports. And people wonder why attendance is so bad.
TV ratings are huge for the Braves, Falcons and Hawks. We just need to relocate these stadiums like Arthur Blank is trying to do.
Downtown Atlanta is a horrible place for a pro arena/stadium.
litz
May 18th, 2011
1:48 am
“How may guys are on a Hockey team?
So 20 or so white guys without a job?”
Obviously Just Me hasn’t bothered to actually LOOK at the Thrashers lineup …
Come on people, either think and then type … or don’t bother.
KevinM
May 18th, 2011
3:30 am
So people are actually thinking there is a worse owner than the ASG? I find that hard to imagine, but I guess its possible. What the ASG has done here is just alienate a majority of the fans who follow the Thrashers and Hawks religiously.
I don’t see a win-win in either situation; If the Hawks don’t improve, and they won’t without major management changes, then you might see Dominique looking for work as well. These negotiations takes him out of the ownership team as well.
Seems like the Moores are coming in at a good time if you want to buy a pro team that where the union is trying to lower player’s salaries drastically. Getting the cap down from 70M to 45M can only improve the bottom line, no?
Now, the issues going forward will be moving the contract of one Joe Johnson, saving millions in future payouts. If the Moores are cheap as many are saying, then expect the Hawks to take a cost reduction in the near future.
I wouldn’t be buying real estate in Atlanta if I was tied to the Hawks.
jerrymcneil39
May 18th, 2011
3:41 am
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The American Dream
May 18th, 2011
4:00 am
The Spirit Group should be celebrated for their management of the Thrashers. I have attended every Thrashers home game since they came to Atlanta. The games are way more entertaining than the Braves. I think this whole situation is the fan’s fault. When the Thrashers have put a decent product on the ice, the fans continued to ignore the team. Overall, I think this is just another piece of evidence that demonstrates that the ATL is still a backwater town filled with rednecks and ignorant people. Hockey is just too sophisticated for the ATL.
Cesare Maniago
May 18th, 2011
6:27 am
The issue of “fan support” involves attendance at games….for ALL Atlanta teams.
I have said before…and will say today….the location of the facilities and their surrounding areas are a primary reason for the poor attendance or “fan support”. Philips Arena is a PITA to get to….especially for a 700pm game. Worse for the Dome. And the neighborhood around The Ted is nothing short of….and has been since the days of A-FC Stadium.
Even when winning, “fan support” in ATL has not been what is experienced in other cities. Only in the ATL can you have playoff games with more visiting team fans attending than the home team fans…remember the Falcons/Packers playoff game last fall? Even the Fox announcers commented about it during the game!
The Falcons and the Hawks all tried to move their facilities to the north side closer to the center of the metro population base. Political pressure and the lure of tax incentives kept them in town. Not only are the ASG owners greedy, but the leaders of ATL have been as well.
Yeah, the fault lies with ASG with the Hawks…and especially the Thrashers….but the root of the problem lies with the City of Atlanta and it’s leaders.
csmny63
May 18th, 2011
6:36 am
In the matter of the Thrashers, I have no opinion.
But as far as ASG spending money to field a winning team, can someone please name a player turning free agent the team let go to save money? Payroll is what, like, seventh highest in the league? Except for the low salary paid to Larry Drew, where has ownership gone to the cheap?
If the question is, why didn’t we go for LeBron, Carmelo, etc. etc…They weren’t coming here no matter how much we were going to spend. And an open checkbook isn’t a guarantee of anything – see the Knicks.
Bumbling and sometimes graceless but I just don’t see that ASG didn’t spend money to field a winner.