Hawks for sale! Thrashers for sale! But only one stands to exit
At least one of the Spirit's teams will be here next year. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
According to esteemed colleague Tim Tucker, the Atlanta Spirit — corporate motto: Everything Must Go! — has entered into an exclusive negotiating agreement with outgoing San Diego Padres owners John Moores to buy the Hawks and Philips Arena. This is major news. But here we offer a couple of caveats:
• Exclusive negotiating agreements aren’t all they’re cracked up to be, especially when it concerns the Hawks, the Thrashers and Philips Arena. the Texas car dealer David McDavid had one of those with Time Warner in April 2003, and you see what it got him. (Actually, it got him $281 million from Time Warner after the conglomerate sold the teams and the building to the Spirit instead.)
• That the Spirit has entered into a negotiating agreement with someone who would agree to keep the Hawks in Atlanta — and it’d be pretty hard to uproot Philips Arena and move it to Manitoba — shouldn’t be taken as a sign that the Thrashers’ apparently imminent departure is any less imminent. On the contrary.
The Spirit has now taken the corporate step of separating its teams. So far as we know, there’s no exclusive negotiating agreement in place for anyone regarding the Thrashers. The issue of Atlanta’s hockey club remains as it was 24 hours ago: With no credible buyer willing to take the team and keep it here, the Spirit has begun discussions with True North Sports and Entertainment, which has an arena sitting open in Winnipeg.
The Hawks, as Tucker notes, were never going anywhere: The bonds floated when the arena was being built maintain that the Hawks have to play their home games in Philips until the bonds are paid off — in 2028. There’s no such legal constraint holding the Thrashers here.
Regarding this complicated tale — by now, we should know that anything involving the Spirit will have permutations by the boatload — here’s where we are: The Hawks are staying, though possibly under different ownership, while the Thrashers inch ever closer toward the door.
By Mark Bradley
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198 comments Add your comment
R. Stroz
May 17th, 2011
8:53 pm
Winnipeg needs money already…..
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/True-North-seeking-debt-help-from-govt-in-NHL-bid-122067534.html?device=mobile&c=y
OHL – Only a few years back, before the owners dropped payroll near the league minimum, the Thrashers attendence was higher than Pittsburgh.
Then again, some Peggers like to ignore all the facts.
R. Stroz
May 17th, 2011
8:54 pm
Hawks fans, John Moores will be as bad as the Rankin Smith family was to the Falcons.
Just Me
May 17th, 2011
8:57 pm
Basketball became a JOKE when the FAB 5 came out with the Shorts to the knees and the rest of Basketball followed.
Basketball should be a game of finesse and skill not BANG’N and DUNK’N.
PALMing is STANDARD and so is Traveling.
OHL
May 17th, 2011
9:06 pm
It’s not just attendance in one year or another that makes City X a better hockey market than City Y. Look at the tv ratings where the home city doesn’t have a rooting interest. When it comes to things like the Olympic Gold Medal game between the US and Canada, ratings exploded in Canada and as well as in cities like Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Boston, Minneapolis, Detroit. They are rock bottom in Atlanta. Look at Winter Classic tv ratings. Look at Stanley Cup Finals ratings where a home city’s team is not in it. Cities like Boston and Buffalo are at the top even though their team is not in it, but Atlanta gets beat out by markets like Oklahoma City and Cincinnati. Those are the facts. The only market in the league that you do better than is Miami and they are right behind you in the expansion talks. If Atlanta is such a great hockey market why don’t people watch the Olympics when your own country is in the Ice Hockey Finals? Why don’t you watch the Winter Classic? How many watch the Stanley Cup Finals? That’s why you will lose your team, people don’t follow hockey in Atlanta like they do in other markets.
KLS1
May 17th, 2011
9:07 pm
ASG Scum needs to be moved to Winnepeg…you are not welcome here.
OHL
May 17th, 2011
9:09 pm
It is not just attendance in one year or another that makes City X a better hockey market than City Y. Look at the tv ratings where the home city doesn’t have a rooting interest. When it comes to things like the Olympic Gold Medal game between the US and Canada, ratings exploded in Canada and as well as in cities like Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Boston, Minneapolis, Detroit. They are rock bottom in Atlanta. Look at Winter Classic tv ratings. Look at Stanley Cup Finals ratings where a home city’s team is not in it. Cities like Boston and Buffalo are at the top even though their team is not in it, but Atlanta gets beat out by markets like Oklahoma City and Cincinnati. Those are the facts. The only market in the league that you do better than is Miami and they are right behind you in the expansion talks. If Atlanta is such a great hockey market why don’t people watch the Olympics when your own country is in the Ice Hockey Finals? Why don’t you watch the Winter Classic? How many watch the Stanley Cup Finals? That’s why you will lose your team, people don’t follow hockey in Atlanta like they do in other markets.
Gordon
May 17th, 2011
9:10 pm
I wish that Navy SEAL team has mistaken Bruce Levenson for Obama bin Laden.
B. Thenet
May 17th, 2011
9:10 pm
All for the sake of appeasing Ted one last time.
OHL
May 17th, 2011
9:11 pm
I said “expansion” but I meant “relocation” above. The only market you do better than in tv ratings is Miami and they are right behind you in relocation talks. Sorry for that term mistake.
OHL
May 17th, 2011
9:17 pm
Seguin will be a star in this league, I hope you also know that right now.
Mr. Obvious
May 17th, 2011
9:24 pm
When it comes to ATLANTA SPIRIT GROUP and Customer Service, it can be said Michael Vick treated his dogs better.
TheAntiMe
May 17th, 2011
9:28 pm
None of those jerkwads from the ASG should be allowed to step inside the State of Georgia without being tried for treason and sentenced to life in prison. In the case of Bruce Levenson, Steve Belkin, J. Michael Gearon Sr. and Michael Gearon Jr. – if any of these four are found anywhere within the State of Georgia they should be drawn and quartered ASAP!
Gordon
May 17th, 2011
9:30 pm
Has anyone actually confirmed Bruce Levenson’s long-form birth certificate?
Winnipeg, Canada
May 17th, 2011
9:31 pm
If they could move the Statue of Liberty from France,
we can move Phillips Arena to Winnipeg.
Robert Barron
May 17th, 2011
9:33 pm
How did Billy Knight get the job as general manager?
The Boston guy was correct to object.
The chance for a championship was right there and all Knight had to do was draft Chris Paul to fill the obvious need at point guard.
Teenage fantasy players could have done it.
Wait a Minute
May 17th, 2011
9:34 pm
When these bone heads gave Joe “Slow” Johnson max type money…we knew they were not right with basic decision making.
hmmmm......
May 17th, 2011
9:35 pm
Would they have done better if they were located somewhere besides the heart of atlanta?
PMC
May 17th, 2011
9:37 pm
These guys have burned this city worse than Sherman.
chasjons
May 17th, 2011
9:37 pm
My question is there something that we have learned about the Atlanta market since the Thrasher’s arrival that we didn’t know prior to their arrival? Is there an assumption that NHL hockey simply isn’t a good fit in our city or did the owners mess up the team beyond the point of no return? Based on the attendance figures I would say there is some strong loyalty for a perennnial losing team. NHL t.v. ratings will always be low in this city, but I wouldn’t think they would be that much different than in other expansion cities. Clearly NHL teams are viable outside of Canada and the Northeast, but I feel like the Thrashers never had a chance with the bufoon owners they were stuck with. It is a real shame that they are were they are…a blue light special being sold my Kmart.
hmmmm......
May 17th, 2011
9:38 pm
traffic and marta suck. arthur blank wants to move the falcons north
TheAntiMe
May 17th, 2011
9:39 pm
The scummy ASG hockey team deserves to be in Winnipeg with the scummy Winnipeg trolls that have all the class of a diarrhea and monkey puss popsicle which is known to be the favorite treat of Winnipeg trolls like OHL who probably has an endorsement deal with the new hockey team soon to be named The Winnipeg Dung Beetles. It seems to be a match made in dung heaven.
PMC
May 17th, 2011
9:40 pm
When you look up Epic Fail in the dictionary… there is a picture of the ASG.
EA
May 17th, 2011
9:42 pm
I would be concerned if I was the guy buying the Hawks. Many people will feel like Bart.
how long until Winnipeg loses the Thrashers?
May 17th, 2011
9:42 pm
Yeah, Winnipeg is a great hockey town. That’s why they’ve already lost a team to Phoenix.
PMC
May 17th, 2011
9:45 pm
OHL, Atlanta is losing their hockey team because the league is getting 60 million in relocation money and another 25 million in blood money from Glendale, AZ so they can keep an even more poorly performing franchise there.
Why oh why are there 3 hockey teams in the greater NYC area if the Islanders are even worse than the Thrashers in attendance????
They have great overall Hockey ratings in NYC I’m sure, so if the Islanders can’t even out draw this pathetic excuse for a hockey team that would be rivaled by many AHL clubs….why do they freaking exist?
Why wouldn’t Winnepeg just take their old team back from awful Arizona? $85 million reasons that have nothing to do with anyone in this market.
YeaSayer28
May 17th, 2011
9:45 pm
Hey Mark, did you at least GOOGLE this guy??? You could have included the fact that he seems like a very CHEAP owner…not to mention the fact that he was a shady businessman as well…This is not the type of owner that the Hawks need!!!
NoDawgsAllowed
May 17th, 2011
9:46 pm
Tarring & feathering ought to come back in style very quickly if any of the ASG group ever dares to show their faces in the state again. Followed immediately by the revival of riding people out of town of a rail.
WAKE UP
May 17th, 2011
9:47 pm
Mark,
Stop perpetuating the lie being told by the ASG and the NHL that there are no prospective buyers willing to keep the team in Atlanta. They’re saying this b/c they want to get maximum dollar for the franchise and the highest bidders are in Winnipeg.
WAKE UP
May 17th, 2011
9:48 pm
Excellent points PMC.
question
May 17th, 2011
9:50 pm
So if Atlanta ponied up 25 million to keep the Thrashers here another year (like Glendale did for the Coyotes), would the NHL take over ownership of the franchise?
bird
May 17th, 2011
9:50 pm
I would definitely buy Hawks season tickets if they had a new owner. Man I hope this Happens!
OHL
May 17th, 2011
9:52 pm
PMC, do you realize that it’s not just about the gate revenue? The Islanders are last in the league or in the bottom 3 but they are PROFITABLE! Atlanta can crawl up to the top 20 and still be losing money. The Isles make more in tv revenue than you can dream of in Atlanta. Now throw in if Wang ever builds his compound or whatever he wants and they can turn things around at the gate as well. That will be taken care of when they get their vote this summer. Please don’t compare your arena to theirs. But know that it’s not just about attendance. They are a hockey market when they get eyeballs on tv sets which they do that.
Mgibby
May 17th, 2011
10:02 pm
Moores was by no means a good owner of the Padres. Whenever they had success, it was due to them lucking up with quick development of their young players(All of which, he let walk when it came time to re-up).
There was talk of the padres trading Adrian Gonzales prior to 08. Sports writers here saw that coming when he hit his first homerun lol!
leave now
May 17th, 2011
10:03 pm
good riddance to the lowly hawks and thrasher–both teams are an embarrassment to the city—which is why everyone calls atl loserville.
PMC
May 17th, 2011
10:04 pm
I’m not comparing arena’s. Hell the Islanders have actually been around long enough to have history and they are in a hockey instead of a college football market.
The idea that they are profitable though is laughable. Hockey has by far the worst TV deal of any major sport in America. The Islanders are in a metropolitan area with over 20 million people and they can’t out draw THE THRASHERS???? The Islanders actually have been to the playoffs in their history and won a game. If they can’t out draw a team in an area that “doesn’t have remotely good hockey ratings” why would they exist? The league needs retraction. They need it in the NBA too. Hell MLB is the same way. There are 3 or 4 teams that are making numbers for everyone in the league.
Southernhockeyfan
May 17th, 2011
10:05 pm
I know they still have to make a living, but I can’t believe the the ticket office is still trying to sell season tickets. Seems a little bit like deceptive advertising to me.
Atlfan
May 17th, 2011
10:05 pm
You can brag about the traditional hockey markets and what they do right now and yes they are better than Atlanta but cities like Detroit, Buffalo, and Pittsburgh are considered traditional hockey markets but the cities are losing population. Guess where they are losing it to. Cities like Atlanta and also to the states of Florida and Arizona, Tennessee, North Carolina and so on. These people don’t stop liking hockey when they move and their is an obvious shift in the population to these non hockey markets and they bring their love with them. Glavine is a great example of this.
Maybe the NHL got ahead of itself with the over expansion but it had the right idea. These are the new and thriving cities in the US and they wanted to put down roots. Slowly but surely they were doing that in Atlanta despite the bs ownership. Short term, Winnipeg looks great but long term it is likely not the best decision.
Bill
May 17th, 2011
10:08 pm
I’ve read a lot about thrashers, hawks, asg, etc over the last several days. It gets more and more distressing by the minute. The sag is a joke.
PMC
May 17th, 2011
10:10 pm
The irony is that this is a HUGE NBA town. This town pulls enormous numbers for the NBA. The Hawks if they ever had even one superstar that was galvanizing and people believed in could be sold out every other night. They don’t have it. They’ve only had one real superstar in history and they are STILL trading on his name 20 years after they traded him ingloriously.
The south was always going to be College Football dominated because of history and the late arrival of pro teams. The dynamic is different than up north. The Braves are gigantic. They have one of the widest coverage areas of any team in the league. The Falcons don’t have much of a history but Arthur Blank seems to be doing well considering the terrible “relatively speaking” stadium deal. The Hawks save Billy’s bumbling could be owning this city right now….alas…. Joe is a rich man.
Wait a Minute
May 17th, 2011
10:14 pm
Reading all these blogs: I have yet to find one person say anything positive about the members of ASG. These guy must be complete arse holes – just as they appear..
BALI ..
May 17th, 2011
10:16 pm
maybe the thrashers and the hawks will move out of town
Dan
May 17th, 2011
10:18 pm
Atlanta Spirit…what a joke; they we’re in over their heads with daddy’s money to begin with; what a disgrace to the city…shame
OHL
May 17th, 2011
10:25 pm
PMC you are only looking at the NBC and Versus deal. Are you remotely aware that Fox Sports NY pays probably 10x to the Isles than what your local Fox Sports pays to the Thrashers? NESN pays in the same ballpark to the Bruins as what the Celtics get. Do you really think the Timberwolves get more money from their Fox Sports than what the Wild get? National tv deals aren’t the only tv revenue. That’s how the Isles can be profitable and you can’t even though you draw the same at the gate. If you are Budweiser, how much are you going to pay MSG to advertise on a Rangers or Sabres game? Now compare that to what you would pay to your Fox Sports to advertise on a Thrashers game. Night and day difference. That’s why those teams make so much more money than the Thrashers ever will. And as much as some of those cities might be losing population, they kill when it comes to tv ratings while others get killed. Where is Ford going to advertise for local NBC affiliates during the Stanley Cup Finals or Winter Classic? Or should they just go to CBC? It’s about eyeballs on the screens, not just butts in the seats.
Atlanta Spirit Sucks
May 17th, 2011
10:29 pm
Hawks fans, John Moores has consistently operated the San Diego Padres as one of the lowest payroll teams in Major League Baseball for years.
Trust me, this guy is bad news, just like the Spirit Clowns.
Come join the party and RISE UP!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Atlanta-Georgia/Atlanta-Spirit-Sucks/114671988618038
OHL
May 17th, 2011
10:30 pm
PMC you are only looking at the NBC and Versus deals. What about the local coverage? Do you really think that your Fox Sports station pays as much to the Thrashers as Fox Sports NY pays to the Isles? If you are Budweiser, do you want to pay to advertise on MSG for a Rangers or Sabres game or on your Fox Sports for a Thrashers game? The Isles are profitable for that reason and it’s certainly not laughable. The Bruins can get as much money from NESN as the Celtics get from Fox Sports New England. But that will not happen for the Thrashers. It’s not just about butts in seats but also about eyeballs on tv sets.
Thrasher fan
May 17th, 2011
10:35 pm
Mark if you want to help call out the league. Cviv is off the reservation. His statements of95% chance of relocation and going to Winnipeg press to discredit competing bids have earmarks of auditioning for a beat job in Winnipeg if the team moves. How about an article calling out Bettman. Where is his commitment to Atlanta fans. The league is talking realignment and a schedule including Winnipeg. He is dead silent as local groups show interest. According to sag the team had a cloud preventing it’s sale until December 2010. As such it has only been freely for sale for 4-5 months. It looks like a league sellout for the 60 million relocation fee. If the league has any integrity at all it must slow the process to allow local interest to play out. Bettman needs to be called out for his silence on the apparent sellout of the Atlanta fans. Truth be told new ownership in Atlanta would find tremendous support from Atlanta hockey fans and the sport would succeed
OHL
May 17th, 2011
10:37 pm
Atlfan those cities might be losing some population, but they still kill when it comes to tv ratings. NESN, Fox Sports Pittsburgh and MSG Buffalo will pay double, triple, maybe 10x what your Fox Sports channel pays to the Thrashers. That all gets figured into which markets are better for an NHL team and which have little chance of ever being profitable.
Wendell
May 17th, 2011
10:39 pm
OHL – get lost eh? Go stick your johnson in a snowman or something – it would be more productive than spewing your socialist dribble on this message board. You hypocritical canucks are a joke.
James on Pharr Rd
May 17th, 2011
10:40 pm
Joe Johnson actually makes enough money to get a line of credit and buy the Hawks outright with no group of investors. If necessary, he can get together with Marvin and put up more cash up-front….
PMC
May 17th, 2011
10:42 pm
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/31/nhl08_New-York-Islanders_312071.html You might find this small piece from Forbes fairly interesting OHL.
Yes, their media deal is keeping them afloat but barely. Check out the value. Worth LESS than the owner paid for the team just a few years ago. More profitable than exactly 4 clubs. Terrible Phoenix, Nashville, Tampa and Atlanta…and their in a HOCKEY MARKET, they are lucky they are getting what they are getting, and when the ad rates are rescheduled they won’t get that….yet we’re going to kill at Atlanta…yet again, for not being a hockey market. Ok. The league has bigger issues.