Roger McDowell: A good pitching coach is in deep trouble
McDowell's accusers: The Quinn family of Fresno, Calif., and attorney Gloria Allred. (AP photo)
Roger McDowell, who’s a very good pitching coach, is in deep trouble because he engaged a round of verbal volleying at AT&T Park over the weekend. Four days later, McDowell has been forced to apologize and the Braves have been moved to offer a statement expressing “concern” and even Bud Selig has weighed in.
At the heart of McDowell’s side of the repartee is, according to a family being advised by the famous attorney Gloria Allred, a volley of anti-gay sentiment. The Lakers’ Kobe Bryant was just fined $100,000 by the NBA for directing a gay slur at a referee during a game, but McDowell’s alleged outburst doesn’t seem a heat-of-the-moment thing.
For one thing, it apparently took place before Saturday’s game. For another, it doesn’t appear to have been a one-time salvo. The Quinn family of Fresno, Calif., alleges that McDowell’s side of the dialogue went on for a while and involved physical threats and even the suggestive use of a bat.
Lest we forget, the Braves have been forced to answer for expressed intolerance before — after John Rocker’s infamous Sports Illustrated rant of December 1999. Bad as that was, it was basically just one loudmouth venting. These allegations are worse: At best they involve unprofessional behavior toward paying customers, and at worst they leave this organization open to the charge that its has a homophobe wearing its uniform.
In his apology, McDowell expressed his regret for responding “to the heckling fans” but offered no clue as to what bit of heckling might have served as a trigger. But what could anyone have said to warrant the sort of response the Quinns maintain McDowell offered?
Selig, the commissioner of baseball, released a statement saying “the allegations are very troubling to me.” Also, and ominously, he said: “After I have all the facts, I will make a determination of how to proceed.”
McDowell is alleged to have said: “Kids don’t belong at the [censored] ballpark.” That alone would be enough to make Selig spit out his soda. Hasn’t baseball spent the past century positioning itself as the game for families?
McDowell has done well in following the illustrious Leo Mazzone, and he’s considered a major asset by the Braves. That status is in peril. If these allegations are found to have merit, McDowell will be lucky to keep his job.
By Mark Bradley
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351 comments Add your comment
SawThat1nce
April 28th, 2011
12:51 pm
“the games are not a place for kids”????????
Are you kidding?
Najeh Davenpoop
April 28th, 2011
12:52 pm
I bet it was actually Keith Hernandez who made those comments.
Fab Five Fredi
April 28th, 2011
12:55 pm
Give me a break!!! This family lost ALL credibility once they retained the attention *hore known as Gloria Allred. Is this guy unemployed or underemployed. This is a money grab. Sorry that Coach McDowell so scarred your family. I can tell that he has inflicted permanent damage..What a WANKER..Roger had acknowledged that he made inappropriate statements, but, that does not warrant his termination. Unless there is a repeated pattern of behavior, then this issue can be resolved without termination. If this had occurred at home vs on the road, then there would be more pressure on the Braves to terminate Roger.
Hey Marcel
April 28th, 2011
12:59 pm
Escaped from Email Purgatory
April 28th, 2011
12:21 pm
**********************************
What’s Roger doing in the bullpen?
Hey Marcel
April 28th, 2011
1:00 pm
Must of been something I ate………………lol…………………..
Mitchell
April 28th, 2011
1:05 pm
These allegations are worse: At best they involve unprofessional behavior toward paying customers, and at worst they leave this organization open to the charge that its has a homophobe wearing its uniform.
You know, I could be wrong but I’d be willing to bet the organization has more than one homophobe “wearing its uniform.” And not just our organization.
It’s professional sports. I think you would have a hard time finding somebody in that dugout who would have taken a strong stance against what he is alleged to have said.
I’m not saying Leo Mazzone is intolerant of gays or anybody but whoever it is that replaces McDowell, if he gets fired, is probably of a similar mind.
That said, bring on Leo. I mean, after all, once a Met always a Met.
nique
April 28th, 2011
1:05 pm
If allegations are true, that was very stupid of McDowell. Don’t think he should be fired, but I agree with “sensible person” that he should be fined and forced into sensitivity training.
Gwinnett Fred
April 28th, 2011
1:06 pm
First, didn’t they go from allegations to fact when McDowell apologized for saying them???
Second, he should be fired – IMMEDIATELY.
Third, having gone to playoff game #2 in SF last year, several fans were extremely vocal towards me and those wearing Braves gear. Really ticked me off at the time, but if things like this go on, I guess it can be viewed as fans getting their retribution however they can. Thanks Roger!
back atcha
April 28th, 2011
1:10 pm
Is Leo warming up in the bullpen?
dean
April 28th, 2011
1:14 pm
The kid, Taylor, said this (according to the alphabet network): “Children should not have to hear disgusting things they don’t want to hear,” she said.
If that’s the case, kids don’t need to be in a ballpark. If you go to any sporting arena be prepared to be offended by some oaf.
I am NOT justifying what McDowell did, I’m just saying the kid made the case for kids not going to the games. (I’m sure that every daddy wants their kid to be Dallas Cowboy cheerleader or a Laker girl. Uh, no. I enjoy looking at them but I don’t want to see MY daughter half-azzed nekkid.)
Connie Lingous
April 28th, 2011
1:16 pm
Note to Mark Bradley: Mark, you’ve been pretty good lately in limiting your use of the phrase “lest we forget” in your columns. I appreciate it very much. It used to be included one or two times *per column* – now, it’s been reduced to once or twice a week, seemingly.
It’s time to take it a step further – don’t use it at all. Ever again. It serves absolutely no use, from the standpoint of either style or substance. And quite frankly, it introduces a tone to your column that probably neither McDowell nor Rocker would condone (from what is being reported), if you know what I mean.
Please. Just lose it entirely.
Thank you in advance.
Curt
April 28th, 2011
1:17 pm
I can’t believe people are so quick to jump on McDowell. Geeze, just look at the picture at the top of the blog. I don’t see a credible face in the room, and a bat on the table? It’s laughable. The sleezy lawyer obviously told them to all look like they were on the verge of tears and for one of them to pretend to pray, for good effect. It looks more like a publicity stunt. If Roger did say the thing about kids, then shame on him. The homo comment, I have no problem with. I want to hear both sides before deciding anything, but regardless, people are way to sensitive.
TSA Screeners = Uneducated Perverts & Pedophiles
April 28th, 2011
1:17 pm
If Roger McDowell had said this to a male-female, female-female and/or male-male couple at the ballpark who were TSA Screeners, I would have no problem with it.
SawThat1nce
April 28th, 2011
1:18 pm
In my opinion, I believe that the Falcons should draft, to improve their pass rush.
blahblah
April 28th, 2011
1:19 pm
that dude should have manned up and accepted Rogers challenge. Nothing would have happenned–it was just posturing. All of this could have been avoided. Are those little girls going to better off after all this? No.
dean
April 28th, 2011
1:21 pm
“Professional sporting events should be an environment that all fans and families can enjoy, not a place where children are exposed to violent threats and discriminatory language.” — GLAAD president Jarrett Barrio
Well there you go. You reckon he’d take his kid(s), if to the Vet? Or the Black Hole? Ha ha ha ha ha!
Sid
April 28th, 2011
1:22 pm
Found some information on what was said:
“McDowell is accused of yelling “Are you a homo couple or a threesome?” to fans sitting in the left-field bleachers. He’s also accused of simulating a sex act with a bat.”
I think the family merely overheard McDowell bantering with some Ahole fans.
dean
April 28th, 2011
1:23 pm
“Professional sporting events should be an environment that all fans and families can enjoy, not a place where children are exposed to violent threats and discriminatory language.
” — GLAAD president Jarrett Barrio
I guess he’ll never take a kid to any ballpark, arena, or football stadium. He doesn’t understand the reality of what goes on in the stands-between fans.
Unfortunately, I believe Roger is toast.
dean
April 28th, 2011
1:24 pm
dammmmmit. I hate it when I do that. Sorry.
Long-time fan
April 28th, 2011
1:24 pm
This article very carefully avoids the facts and skews the impact of the story. Try reading an article that actually describes what happened.
“A homophobe in a Braves uniform”… AT WORST? (There are likely many — and not just in ATL.) This was not simply “a volley of anti-gay sentiment”. While waving a bat at him, McDowell asked this man how much he thought his teeth were worth. The family had seats on the field. Dad had been asking McDowell to stop his vulgar comments (”Are you guys a homo couple or a threesome?”) and gestures toward other fans, by reminding him that there were kids there.
John Rocker: “one loudmouth venting”? Rocker opened his big racist, xenophobic, homophobic, bigoted mouth on many occasions, shoving his foot into it. Do your research, Bradley. Your objectivity toward this subject is in question.
Initially I was impressed with the comments from Braves fans about McDowell’s inappropriate behavior. As I read on, I see the issue clouded by attitudes about Gloria Allred, saying one group of fans is worse than another (and I wholly disagree about the SF fans), etc.
I think involving Allred was a mistake — she is too much of publicity grabber. However, the family was not asking for compensation for themselves. As of this morning, they were interested in disciplinary action and a fine, not profit.
Guys like McDowell or Rocker can be pigs in their personal lives, but need to keep it private as long as they are in the public arena or the ballpark. Big fine. Suspension.
Gumby
April 28th, 2011
1:27 pm
What a bunch of horse manure. It’s a sport.. not church. I don’t know what the HECKLER said but they got a response!! Just because you buy a ticket doesn’t give a fan the right to be a total jackass to opposing players which I suspect somebody was. If they have to fine Roger (which is still stupid) do it and get on with it. We have games to play and don’t need a distraction from some whiny babies. I guess next they’ll claim Roger needs to show his birth certificate.
the cox man
April 28th, 2011
1:27 pm
the only wrong thing roger did was opening his mouth.he should know rednecks have no rights. but if he said children don t belong in a ballpark then he should be ban from being in any ballpark himself.
pinkygonzales
April 28th, 2011
1:29 pm
legally, any sort of suit that they are trying to come up with is absolutely baseless and will likely be thrown out post haste. But that’s not the point. And it’s not about protected classes, and it’s not about free speech or anything like that. It’s about the fact that no matter how good he is at his job, we can’t have him representing this city and this organization. Also, keeping him on will become a distraction. It was a comment born of ignorance, and there is no legal basis for any money to exchange hands. But if it went down the way it is being reported, he’s done.
59bulldawg
April 28th, 2011
1:31 pm
I don’t think McDowell should be fired either . . . but what he did was extremely stupid! Wonder if this means Camp Leo returns in 2012?
Esteban
April 28th, 2011
1:37 pm
What does Gloria Alred have to do with anything? Why would they hire an attorney? Don’t be surprised if she represents this family and others in a lawsuit against the Braves and MLB. Give me a break.
Uggla's Ugglies
April 28th, 2011
1:37 pm
Fire him? You gotta be kidding me! Talk about over-reactions. I am not condoning gay slurs, but to compare it to a racial slur is silly. He used poor judgment, he didn’t fight a fan. If you don’t want your children to hear language, then don’t take them to the ballpark. Hell, don’t take them to the mall or grocery store, or even watch TV. They are going to hear it no matter what. If McDowell cursed in front of my kids, I wouldn’t be happy b/c I don’t condone the language, but there is such a thing as freedom of speech and I wouldn’t resort to heckling the manager and try to chastise him for using the language.
The Good Doctor
April 28th, 2011
1:38 pm
First, the man and his family were not the ones heckling McDowell. Three other fans did the heckling. McDowell responded to those first three fans with inappropriate words and gestures. The father did not heckle McDowell; he told him to watch his language in front of his daughters. Just about any father (including myself) would do the same. Then McDowell said kids don’t belong at baseball parks (Huh? Didn’t just about all of us begin to love baseball when our parents took us to games as kids?). McDowell then walked towards the father and threatened him with the bat, asking him how much his teeth were worth, which was an explicit threat that he was going to smash the father in the face with the bat. This is a criminal offense under any circumstances in any jurisdiction in America (the threat, not just the action). If these allegations prove to be true (and contrary to what some posters think, eyewitness testimony does qualify as evidence), then McDowell must be fired.
The gay slur and gestures were certainly inappropriate but would probably warrant no more than a suspension on their own. Saying nasty things about families and in front of them is grounds for firing and would be at any business in America. Threatening to smash a man’s teeth out with a baseball bat is a criminal offense and would normally lead to an arrest and probation. Who the father’s attorney is is irrelevant.
For those questioning the issue of free speech, you need to take a course on the constitution. The constitution protects citizens from the government controlling their rights to speak freely. It does not apply to private entities and the guidelines they set for the employees who represent them. The right to free speech means that the government cannot take action against citizens or organizations for criticizing the government or disseminating their opinions. Private corporations can and do expect their employees to conduct themselves to a certain standard, which is perfectly legal. Please learn about your American government before trying to use false patriotism to actually undermine the freedoms that the constitution gives us, one of which is terminating an employee who threatens customers and curses in front of children.
Finally, a few people have suggested that McDowell was justified because their beliefs condemn homosexuality. They are right that in their in their holy book it lists that sexual practice as an abomination. It also lists eating pork, eating shellfish, and wearing different patterns together as abominations of the same order. To those people I ask: Have you ever eaten bacon, a ham sandwich, or had a hot dog at the ballpark? Have you tried shrimp cocktail or crab dip? Have you ever worn solid color pants with a striped or plaid shirt? If you answered ‘yes’ to any of those questions then you have committed a sin that is equivalent to homosexuality according to your book. On the other hand, that same book gives suggestions on how slavery should be properly conducted. In this case I would have to ask, “Who is the one with the moral deficit?” And it’s certainly not the family at the ballpark.
Sid
April 28th, 2011
1:39 pm
I also found this:
Giants fan Justin Quinn, attending the game with his wife and 9-year-old twin daughters, said he asked McDowell to watch his language in the presence of children.
According to Allred, the former New York Mets pitcher told Quinn, “Kids don’t [expletive] belong at the baseball park.”
McDowell, 50, then “picked up his bat and started walking in a threatening manner towards Quinn,” Allred said.
Quinn, 33, said McDowell asked him, “How much are your teeth worth?” The Fresno, Calif., resident said he managed to diffuse further hostilities but was encouraged by other fans who had witnessed the scene to file a report.
I think Quinn see’s dollar signs, that is why Allred is invloved. But look at him in the picture, a girly man………….lol….!!
Ross
April 28th, 2011
1:39 pm
Whatever happened to the good ole days where if you had a problem with someone then you dealt with it like a man. This is nothing more than some guy trying to get money for nothing because someone might have offended his child. Not to mention the fact that he hires an attention bloodhound for his legal counsel. First off you cant prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there were terroristic threats made so that point is moot, and this is America if someone has an opinion then they should be able to state it. Why is it that only certain groups of people get to say what they want with no recourse, but certain people cant.
Matt
April 28th, 2011
1:40 pm
What’s amazing is that this guy will probably lose his job because of the fact he expressed his dislike for another person. Where is it written in society that we must like everyone. Most blacks don’t prefer most whites, most whites don’t prefer most blacks, most straight people don’t prefer most gay people, most gay people don’t prefer most straight people. Most southerners don’t prefer most northerners and vice versa and so on. Hippies and conservatives don’t get along, Orange County surfers (stereotype I know) and Kansas farm boys (stereotype I know) probly don’t prefer eachother.
My point is that people prefer other people that are like them (their “own kind). Would most of you agree?? So what if you don’t like you!! How does me not liking you affect whether or not you sleep at night?!?!? Why do I need a socially acceptable reason to not like you???
If I wanna have sex with a horse i’m not going to scream “you have to be tolerant of my choices because I’m just being me”!!!
Newsflash for everyone else: If you are the minority you aren’t going to be the most popular kid in the room!!! If me and 20 others are the only white people at a Snoop Dog concert we aren’t going to be very popular. If me and my gay lover show up to a sporting event (stereotypically popular to heterosexual men and traditional families) I’m not going to be very popular while i’m there.
Accept that and move on!!!
Hey Marcel
April 28th, 2011
1:41 pm
Nice prop with the baseball bat in the pic.
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 28th, 2011
1:46 pm
Are there any witnesses to this incident?
Uggla's Ugglies
April 28th, 2011
1:48 pm
JR, I disagree. Everyone who works knows the customer isn’t always right. If a fan (customer), said something like I’ve heard from fans (ie I just had relations with your wife, or I’m glad you have a retarded child, or make suggestive comments about something they would do with your young daughter), I highly doubt you or anyone else for that matter would handle the situation like you are in a business by just politely telling the customer to stop talking about that. Most people would react by heckling back. When heckling become personal, they are no longer protected by the “I’m just a fan” excuse and “you can’t say anything back to me b/c I am the ‘customer’”.
Gregor
April 28th, 2011
1:49 pm
I love McDowell and hate to see him go…but realistically, this may be our best chance to get that buffoon Mazzone, his ignorant comments, and his annoying laugh off of the radio in the morning. If I never hear that ignoramous speak again, it’ll be too soon.
Robert 08
April 28th, 2011
1:50 pm
It’s funny that the same people upset over an alleged gay slur are the same people calling McDowell and Braves fans rednecks … pot meet kettle. By the way, I’ve heard some of the nasty things directed at pro athletes, and I’m surprised there are not more incidents like this. I wanna know what was said to McDowell to set him off.
The Good Doctor
April 28th, 2011
1:51 pm
First, the man and his family were not the ones heckling McDowell. Three other fans did the heckling. McDowell responded to those first three fans with inappropriate words and gestures. The father did not heckle McDowell; he told him to watch his language in front of his daughters. Just about any father (including myself) would do the same. Then McDowell said kids don’t belong at baseball parks (Huh? Didn’t just about all of us begin to love baseball when our parents took us to games as kids?). McDowell then walked towards the father and threatened him with the bat, asking him how much his teeth were worth, which was an explicit threat that he was going to smash the father in the face with the bat. This is a criminal offense under any circumstances in any jurisdiction in America (the threat, not just the action). If these allegations prove to be true (and contrary to what some posters think, eyewitness testimony does qualify as evidence), then McDowell must be fired.
The gay slur and gestures were certainly inappropriate but would probably warrant no more than a suspension on their own. Saying nasty things about families and in front of them is grounds for firing and would be at any business in America. Threatening to smash a man’s teeth out with a baseball bat is a criminal offense and would normally lead to an arrest and probation. Who the father’s attorney is is irrelevant.
For those questioning the issue of free speech, you need to take a course on the constitution. The constitution protects citizens from the government controlling their rights to speak freely. It does not apply to private entities and the guidelines they set for the employees who represent them. The right to free speech means that the government cannot take action against citizens or organizations for criticizing the government or disseminating their opinions. Private corporations can and do expect their employees to conduct themselves to a certain standard, which is perfectly legal. Please learn about your American government before trying to use false patriotism to actually undermine the freedoms that the constitution gives us, one of which is terminating an employee who threatens customers and curses in front of children.
Finally, a few people have suggested that McDowell was justified because their beliefs condemn homosexuality. They are right that in their holy book it lists that sexual practice as an abomination. It also lists eating pork, eating shellfish, and wearing different patterns together as abominations of the same order. To those people I ask: Have you ever eaten bacon, a ham sandwich, or had a hot dog at the ballpark? Have you tried shrimp cocktail or crab dip? Have you ever worn solid color pants with a striped or plaid shirt? If you answered ‘yes’ to any of those questions then you have committed a sin that is equivalent to homosexuality according to your book. On the other hand, that same book gives suggestions on how slavery should be properly conducted. In this case I would have to ask, “Who is the one with the moral deficit?” And it’s certainly not the family at the ballpark.
Georgian
April 28th, 2011
1:52 pm
This whole thing is a joke. Lets wait to see the “real” story before we cast judgement. This fan sure did jump to publicize this by hiring lawyer Allred and making his kids puppetts to recite scripted lines.
Furthermore, what he did is not “job losing” worthy. Why he should have held his tongue if he did, this is not that big a deal.
pittman
April 28th, 2011
1:53 pm
by the time i was in 5-6 grade at a private school in a nice neighborhood in a supporting family i was already aware of curse words and how fun they were to type into search engines, that was 15 years ago and nowadays kids are having “sex on the reg by 13 smoking pot on the reg by 13 and basically doing a whole bunch of other fun stuff on the reg”
straitroad
April 28th, 2011
2:01 pm
Bradley,
Don’t be such a wuss. Do you really believe that McDowell said kid’s shouldn’t be at the ballpark? If he admits to it, then I’m wrong. Until then, I doubt he said that. Either way, quit crying about it. We’re a country full of wimps where it’s fashionable to be offended.
JASon
April 28th, 2011
2:02 pm
The culprit in all of this is…America, a dumb country that allows dumb people to succeed in lawsuits like this. Our government is a complete failure, in all respects. I don’t really know why people say the founding fathers were so wise, I mean, look at what their “brilliant” vision has become.
James
April 28th, 2011
2:05 pm
@ John..Great comment it seems that the word thug is only alpplied to a certain group.I really hate Rodger stuck his foot in his mouth and I think he will loose his job.I’m not sure about bringing back Leo.Stevie Wonder could have coached Glavin,Smoltz,Maddux etc.If he’s such a great coach why is he doing radio?
Chris
April 28th, 2011
2:11 pm
School kids are getting bullied and committing suicide becuase of being the brunt of these types of slurs. This man should be let go. Georgia’s reputation of being a leader in the “new south” has really been slipping lately and now this is just a disgrace.
Curious George
April 28th, 2011
2:13 pm
Are the Braves going to follow the example set by the White House and PhotoShop a fake Hawaiian Birth Certificate for Roger McDowell to help pacify and deflect the media attention?
Chris
April 28th, 2011
2:14 pm
Man needs to be fired. School kids are being bulied and committing suicide people like this set the standard that such slurs are ok. Maybe if he has to get out and look for a job and work a 9 to 5, he’ll grow up a little bit.
Dawglasville
April 28th, 2011
2:17 pm
If McDowell did what he is accused of then he should be gone.
Why is it OK to call people rednecks? No other slang is socially acceptable but you can call people rednecks.
Reid in EAV
April 28th, 2011
2:19 pm
Folks, remember that everything we know is coming from that grandstanding, sleazoid, publicity addict Gloria Allred. Your average everyday ambulance chaser exaggerates and makes stuff up, particularly when the media is involved. (I know, because it’s happened to me.)
All we know is that *something* happened, as evidenced by McDowell’s apology. And if he, a pro, responded to heckling in any form, that’s crossing the line. Personally, I really doubt he said kids don’t belong at a ballpark and I also doubt a lot of the rest of it, considering the source.
IF (and that’s a big if) McDowell did exactly as she alleged, then he should be fired. But let’s not take the word of a pretty questionable source, with questionable motivations, before we have an objective reading of the facts, OK?
KB
April 28th, 2011
2:21 pm
McDowell has done a great job. Unfortunately, he made a terrible decision. In any other work-place related scenario, anyone would lose their job for engaging in this kind of behavior. If Mark Bradley printed anti-gay, anti-Jew, anti-Muslim, etc. words in his articles, I believe he would lose his job. It seems likely that we’ve seen the last of Mr. McDowell.
coloradobulldog
April 28th, 2011
2:24 pm
Roger’s a goner. The sooner the Brave’s act, the less of a team distraction. You don’t want to have to be asked about this if your Fredi or one of our pitchers. You want to focus on the job ahead of you. Roger needs to take an unpaid leave of absence. Then promote one of the Minor League coaches like Derek Botelho to finish the season.
Dawglasville
April 28th, 2011
2:27 pm
“Thug” is code. So is “overrated.” If I hear a black person in the media refer to an athlete as being “overrated” I know he is talking about a white player. I do wish the word “thug” was blocked from these blogs but you are living in denial if you think that southern white men have a monopoly on racism.
i would test him for drugs
April 28th, 2011
2:29 pm
only a complete idiot would do what he did under those circumstances…. unless he was under the influence.
he could have been operating with a bad hang over too.