If the Hawks don’t make a playoff run, will Josh be jettisoned?
No. 55 is Jordan Crawford. Check his numbers since he got traded. (AJC photo by Hyosub Shin)
The Thrashers fired their coach, changed their general manager, imported a goodly roster chunk from the Stanley Cup champions … and will miss the playoffs yet again. They finished 10th in the Eastern Conference last season; with four games remaining, they’re 11th now. And should we be upset?
Nah. They’re the Thrashers.
As for the Thrashers’ corporate brethren: That’s different. The Hawks have made the playoffs three seasons running and have won a series the past two years. They didn’t opt for change over the offseason. They chose continuity, albeit with a twist. They fired their coach but promoted his assistant. (Message: “We’ve changed, but not really.”)
The Hawks won 53 games last season and finished third in the East. The best they can do this time is 49 victories, and they’re all but certain to be the No. 5 seed. In no way can this be seen as progress — the only reason to fire a coach while keeping his players is because you believe they’re capable of more — but there’s still a chance to get it right. The NBA playoffs, at least the Eastern half thereof, are where goofy happens: Only once since 2002 has the East’s No. 1 seed reached the finals.
A nice playoff run — one that carries into the Eastern finals, where the Atlanta Hawks have never ever been — would allow them to wag their fingers at all us doubters and say, “See? We knew what we were doing.” And there’s no reason they can’t, even without the homecourt edge, beat Orlando in Round 1. (The Magic isn’t half the team it was, which can happen when you trade away half your team in December.)
For discussion purposes, let’s say the Hawks upset Orlando and lose routinely to Chicago in the conference semis. Even the easily satisfied Atlanta Spirit would have trouble framing that as progress. How could you give Larry Drew rave reviews if his team falls at the same hurdle as Mike Woodson’s? And if dissimilar-in-demeanor coaches wind up with the same result, is it even the coach at all?
Since taking ownership in 2004, the easily addled Spirit has been consistent in its willingness to be patient with “the growing young core” of its basketball team. But here it is 2011, and three of the Core Four — Josh Smith, Marvin Williams and Joe Johnson — have been in place for nearly six years, and Al Horford arrived in 2007. Over time, the Hawks have gone from wretched (13-69 in 2004-2005) to rather good (53-29 last season). But now the graph, at least the regular-season part of it, shows its first dip since the inglorious days of Terry Stotts and Chris Crawford.
The loose definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. If the Hawks fall in Round 2 again, the only logical tack would be to try something else, and this doesn’t mean promoting a different assistant. Given that their No. 1 pick was sent to Washington for Kirk Hinrich, we can expect no help from the draft. Even worse, last year’s No. 1 pick — Jordan Crawford, also shipped to D.C. – has scored 20-plus points the past four games. Heck, he even had a triple double. (And the Hawks’ record with Hinrich? It’s 10-9.)
There’s a chance Jamal Crawford, who’ll be an unrestricted free agent, could be packaged in a sign-and-trade, but the greater issue is the Core Four. If this season yields nothing better (or even as good as) the past two, why stay the course? Which brings us to names:
Johnson can’t be traded because nobody wants to pay his massive salary through 2016. Horford can’t be traded because this franchise would collapse without him. Williams can’t be traded for anyone of significance because every NBA team already has a Marvin Williams. By process of elimination, that leaves …
Josh Smith.
It would be tough saying goodbye to someone this talented, tougher still watching him become an All-Star — which he surely would — wearing a different uniform. But if this spring becomes another fizzle, what choice would the Spirit have?
(Well, it could sell the team and leave such decisions to someone else. That could happen, too. Never a dull moment, huh?)
By Mark Bradley
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154 comments Add your comment
@DanWeiner
April 4th, 2011
10:45 am
Seeing as how Joe’s and Marvin’s contracts are untradeable, it’s either Josh or Al so Josh is a safe bet.
Sorry, But Nobody Cares
April 4th, 2011
10:45 am
Atlanta has an NBA team?
What did we do wrong?
How do we get rid of it?
First?????????
J.J.M.
April 4th, 2011
10:48 am
isnt it called the highlight factory because of josh smith?
DHD
April 4th, 2011
10:49 am
Go Braves!!
TommyJack
April 4th, 2011
10:56 am
No offense, Mark. But are people really interested in this?
JROLL1
April 4th, 2011
10:58 am
TRADING JORDAN CRAWFORD WAS A BIG TIME MISTAKE! AND JUST LIKE WOODY, LARRY NEVER GAVE THE KID A CHANCE TO PLAY!!! SAME OL’ HAWKS. FIRST ROUND AND DONE!!!!
Not Don Waddell
April 4th, 2011
10:59 am
Can we still get anything for Josh? I was a huge advocate of trading him over 2 years ago, when he was still viewed by the rest of the league as an up-and-comer. Now, 2 + years later, he is rightly viewed as a cancer, coach-killer and a selfish, whiny child who plays hard sometimes.
What a mess the Spirit has made of things. The Joe Johnson contract is a franchise killer. Poor Al Horford should have bailed when he had the chance.
mike
April 4th, 2011
11:00 am
Trade Josh for a center.. perhaps NeNe from Denver? Lack of discipline and erratic play is killing this team.
mike
April 4th, 2011
11:02 am
Also, Jordan Crawford doesn’t play any defense, which is fine for the Wizards, but if he played regularly for us in the playoffs he would be toast. In the long run, we should have kept him though as a cheap replacement for Jamal.
Mark Bradley
April 4th, 2011
11:02 am
I’ve always been the guy who said, “Trade Josh? Never!” But time marches on.
ATL (Ramblin Wreck)
April 4th, 2011
11:06 am
Sorry, But Nobody Cares……………….. If you really don’t care, why are you commenting on this blog goat balls licker. We need Joe to re-do his contract and take a pay cut. Enough said.
Tlaw
April 4th, 2011
11:08 am
I have been saying(and so has Chuck Barkeley) a long time ago that the Hawk have to choose between Smoove and Horfy.Both play the PF position and hinder each other when they are on the court together, anyone with a basketball IQ(which leadership nor coaching have on this team) can see that. Horfy is the better all-around player, is cheaper and provides more leadership so I think he should be kept rather than Smoove. I think we could still package Smoove to a older team looking to get younger next season like the Sours in return for Tony Parker. I say this becuase their frnot line is old as dirt and they already ahve Parker’s replacement in George Hill.
steve brown
April 4th, 2011
11:09 am
How about Josh for Jordan Crawford! Sund would be famous forever more. This team is desperately boring to watch (the JJ never ending isolations, the Smith 3 pointers that clang in the night, Horford’s hilarious attempts to dribble drive, Teague’s length of the court drive for a failed 3 pointer at the buzzer, etc.). As a Marx Brothers or Three Stooges film this might entertain, as basketball goes it is tedious.
Local fans know we have no chance and the players, coaches and owners know the same. The local fans are about to be vilified in the press, as usual, for not attending these mock playoff games in mass numbers. Please stop this mind numbing charade by bringing in someone to run this team that has a successful track record in some business at sometime in his or her life.
Mike
April 4th, 2011
11:10 am
Who cares!!!!
J.Hoffa
April 4th, 2011
11:12 am
The Highlight Factory must be using union labor.
BobDawg
April 4th, 2011
11:14 am
I still can’t believe Billy Knight passed on both Deron Johnson and Chris Paul for Marvin Williams…That trade has haunted us and will forever… He even worked them out. What an idiot… We would have a Championship by now with either of those guys….
Elliot Garcia
April 4th, 2011
11:15 am
It is time to move Smoove for a real center. If the Hawks had a halfway decent center and big Al at PF, they would be unstoppable….
Tlaw
April 4th, 2011
11:16 am
Mark if you had to choose between Horfy and Smoove, who would you choose and why?
Rickster
April 4th, 2011
11:16 am
The heck with hoops…. it’s MASTERS WEEK!!!
Mark Bradley
April 4th, 2011
11:17 am
Horfy. Because he’s so solid. (And he’s also very good.)
Dawg A
April 4th, 2011
11:21 am
Change has to be made! And it needs to start with the ASG! Mark please tell me that they are closer to having a new owner! They can then get this mess cleaned up.
buckhead benny
April 4th, 2011
11:21 am
I believe it lies with the coaching- Larry Drew just doesnt seem to have a handle of who to play- Jeff Teague looks really good sometimes- then, he sits him on the bench for games at a time- Also, now he is starting Marvin Williams again? What did Marvin bitch and complain enough to get back in the starting lineup- They played 3 reserves last night on the road- That is bs- and they should lose- they have a deep enough rotation for 5 to have been in there- especially when you get outscored 32-18 some reserves should have been inserted- It just goes to show you a young coach like this can’t really have his balls to make decisions and needs to make “friends” with the players so ownership won’t get mad at him. They need someone that is proven that these guys will listen to- Then, josh smith will be great.
phil
April 4th, 2011
11:22 am
I don’t pay a ton of attention to these lazy guys, but it doesn’t surprise me a bit that a guy we traded for Hinriech just had a triple double….that’s funny and pathetic and sad at the same time….not to mention, unsurprising…
Yes, Josh should be traded….or released or dumped or something….the guy may be talented but talent is useless when it whines and mopes around and doesn’t try most of the time….
B-man
April 4th, 2011
11:22 am
defense, defense, defense….enough with this crap… yes defense is important to some degree but the nba is not the nfl. you must OUTSCORE the other team in the nba. Championship team do play sound defense but they ALWAYS SCORE. that is most important. This is the reason we have so many blowout losses…we have guys with limited offensive ability and when they get tired of defending our leads fade away and we can’t score. b-ball is a game of ATTACKING. examples? Bulls, Lakers, Phoenix Suns from a few years ago, Trailblazers & Rockets of the 90’s. Some were great defensively but they all SCORED. Trading Crawford was just dumb. So he gets burned a couple of times on D’ in a game but scores 20? I’ll take that trade.
#thebalkan
April 4th, 2011
11:22 am
Shipping out Smith would definitely provide less excitement at games…but it will also provide less anxiety when he shoots the 3. It would definitely be tough but someone’s gotta go…I’d prefer JJ. I’m sure someone will post up possible trade scenarios.
Also, John Kincade of 680 is the only person talking about #thebalkan buying out the 3, which includes the Hawks. This seems to be the only exciting talk of something new coming into the Hawks future.
phil
April 4th, 2011
11:23 am
ownership never did a good thing for this team….never past the 2nd round since 1970 or so….it’s ridiculous how consistently bad we stay….so i don’t blame the ownership entirely…maybe not using Skip to do play by play after the early 80’s did us in….makes as much sense as anything else.
it starts at the top
April 4th, 2011
11:24 am
Look, the problem is ownership. Until we get real owners for both teams, nothing is going to change for either team.
phil
April 4th, 2011
11:25 am
Who cares about excitement…i want to win the games…which means at least some defense, in spite of the need to attack, attack offensively….drafting a kobe bryant might help too….
GT
April 4th, 2011
11:26 am
Jordan Crawford said volumes. Never got on the court here. There is a click group playing for the Hawks They ruin that chemistry trading Mike Bibby. Said he couldn’t play defense. None of the guards can play defense, maybe it has something to do with coaching. Either go with the click and get a rap artist for point guard or tear up the neighborhood and bring some people in who like to play basketball not just socialize.
What is up with the ref hitting Nique. I wonder if you have that weak a character and the root of this was money how easy it must be to get to these refs in a game. This joker could make 12,000 every game he refed from one side or the other. If he has this much lack of control of himself what kept him honest when his job could have been bought.
#thebalkan
April 4th, 2011
11:26 am
@ATL(Ramblin Wreck) Unfortunately in the NBA, players can’t restructure their contracts downward. Correct me if I am wrong. The only thing going downward is our team.
Marvin Willliams fan
April 4th, 2011
11:28 am
BobDawg
Paul and Williams have never won anything!…the Hawks need a CENTER, and a decent coach!
PMC
April 4th, 2011
11:32 am
Yes, but why did they trade for Kirk Hinrich? That’s the brilliant answer at PG?
REALLY????????
Orlando may have less overall talent than Atlanta, but they have Jameer Nelson at PG and the best center in the league.
Atlanta, has no one close at PG and no one close at Center. A bunch of Fowards, and a woefully overpaid Joe Johnson who has NEVER done anything of consequence in the NBA playoffs, where actual superstars make their money.
Nerds! Nerds! Nerds!
April 4th, 2011
11:33 am
NBA SUCKS! It’s baseball season and it’s Masters Week! Who cares about the DoDo Hawks.
I would trade Josh for an Ultimate Sub from Publix. Get rid of everyone, except Horford, and rebuild. This “team” won’t do squat.
RHJ
April 4th, 2011
11:39 am
First we should have never sign JJ to max contract, 3rd best team last year , 5th best team this year , something is wrong maybe we need a quality GM who can trade for our future!!!
steve brown
April 4th, 2011
11:39 am
GT- good call on the Hawks-bad call on Nique. From what I can see Nique did all the hitting and as our “superstar” is being protected. By the way he may be the worst color commentator I’ve ever had to listen to.
Marcus
April 4th, 2011
11:40 am
MB,
Josh and Al may be our only realistic bargaining chips, esp. since we shipped off our young asset (JCII) and retained the always desirable expiring contract of JC the First.
heartofdarkness
April 4th, 2011
11:41 am
If you break up the Hawks, you will deprive the ESPN announcers of the opportunity to test market their banquet circuit material on air during yet another nationally televised blowout.
Jay
April 4th, 2011
11:42 am
It’s not all on Josh & I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but does anywho w/ authority tells Josh don’t settle for long jumpshots, i.e, coach or leaders on the team? I believed once he starts off aggresive & attacking the basket, dunking, he shoots the ball average. But if his couple of attempts are jumpers, then he’s below average. The owners owe this city more with this team & they can solve it by BRINGING HOME DWIGHT HOWARD. I don’t know how they can do it but dang gone it, find a way!! The Heat pays 3 players 100 million, I know we can pay 2!
GT
April 4th, 2011
11:42 am
The real problem with rebuilding is with what? The whole NBA is like this, occasionally in the right swamp the chemistry works, but who knows where and when. Easy money, parity, failure….
riggo
April 4th, 2011
11:45 am
How do u trade 2 1st round picks for Hinrich it wasn’t Woodson as u can see now ,your past 2 GMS DON’T HAVE A CLUE.
Zing
April 4th, 2011
11:46 am
I think the ATL Spirit should at least *try* to trade JJ first. Maybe to the Knicks–they have a track record of relative insanity, maybe they’ll jump in there. Interesting to note, by the way, that JJ appears untradeable; if he’s untradeable, then, by definition, that was a terrible contract the Spirit gave him. (Which is what I thought at the time–the only player you give that kind of money to is Lebron James. Or maybe Dwight Howard. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY else.)
If the Spirit trade Josh Smith, they’ll be trading their best or second best player and a very reasonable contract for someone who almost certainly will not be as good and likely won’t be as reasonably priced. Why would you do that? Just to effect change? I don’t think change for the sake of change is what this team needs. It needs some thoughtful re-working.
GT
April 4th, 2011
11:47 am
steve brown you are right on with Nique. There is an immaturity about the whole league. Serious money with no accountability. The fans are the suckers here.
Stuart
April 4th, 2011
11:48 am
Yeah, it may come down to trading Josh. Trade Josh and Jamal for a major point guard — by major, meaning one who is excellent at distributing first, but can be a primary scorer if needs be, plays defense, and is aggressive in pushing the ball and actually attacking the basket — like Paul, assuming he signs an extension as part of the agreement. Then go after a center in free agency. Yes, this may mean going over the salary cap and actually spending money (take note owners). And, if the Hawks really want to contend, they can go spend some money on a veteran coach as well.
Zing
April 4th, 2011
11:49 am
And by the way– I was thrilled when Sund chose Jordan Crawford in the draft–and dismayed when they let him go.
I thought the Hawks should have signed-and-traded JJ last summer, given Jamal the start at the 2, and given Jordan significant minutes behind him (depending on whom the Hawks got back in the sign-and-trade–but maybe we would have gotten a high draft pick and would be looking at adding a bigtime talent in the draft this year… sigh).
The contract given to Joe + trading away Jordan C = No confidence that Sund knows what he’s doing.
Glenn
April 4th, 2011
11:53 am
Notice when we beat the Celtics on Friday Josh Smith was on the bench for the 2nd half . That was very telling . He’s a good defender but is an offensive liability . He makes to many boneheaded plays . Not surprised by Jordan Crawford & his new found success . The Hawks don’t really seem to be very good at developing talent . I bet if we traded Marvin Williams he would become the next Karl Malone . That’s why Rajon Rondo & Glen Davis are playing at such a high level & they both could have been had by any team . The Celtics can develop lesser talent over time .
Mark Bradley
April 4th, 2011
11:55 am
It was odd to see the Hawks win without Josh on the floor, Glenn.
Marcus
April 4th, 2011
11:56 am
to add to my earlier post ….. Al or Smoove will have to move, because we put ourselves in this predicament by 1) having traded away assets over the last 2 seasons (young players/draft picks) with little long-term vision, 2) failing to draft better talent or develop young players, esp. 2nd rounders, 3) holding a HARD line on spending to avoid the luxury tax, and 4) failing to ID and aggressively pursue the 1-2 talented (missing?) pieces to supplement the core to go take us to another level.
I don’t see much wiggle room except to trade one of the core just to then the question whether that move becomes a ZERO SUM proposition (talent lost = talent gained; no improvement) or do we lose out (just by the luck of being an ATL franchise) on Smoove or Boss’ eventual realization of their potential in another city’s team?
gsu01
April 4th, 2011
11:57 am
They need a real head coach first. Drew might be worse than Woody and that tells you everyhing you need to know.
Marcus
April 4th, 2011
12:00 pm
…….. Pape Sy is seeing our dysfunction up-close and personal ………. I wonder how close he is to jumping on the 1st Concord jet back to France?!?! LOL
papar bag hawk
April 4th, 2011
12:01 pm
The team as constructed is second round at best, especially with Woodson-2 coaching. Change has to be made; however, I’m not sure if I trust Sund to make the trade decision. I still blame Woodson-2 as the reason why Washington has Jordan Crawford, due to the fact that this clown never gave him a chance to show what he can do. Still, this trade will make us a laughingstock (again). In essence: Crawford, Evans, 1st round pick for Hinrich (armstrong gets not pt). Watch the 1st round pick turn into a solid contributor. The life of a Hawks fan.
niremetal
April 4th, 2011
12:03 pm
Jordan Crawford has been one of the league’s most inefficient players over the past month and a half. Pretty much anyone in the league can score 20 points if they are willing to shoot 8 for 22 to get there. Good players, however, do not.
Jordan Crawford is an inefficient, volume-scoring guard who offers no defense, no playmaking abilities (he has terrible court vision)…really no skills whatsoever besides being able to take a lot of a shots and occasionally hit some. Players like that are a dime a dozen. Wake me up if he ever becomes something more.
papar bag hawk
April 4th, 2011
12:03 pm
I predict the same thing will happen if we trade Josh. He’ll go to a team with a solid coach. He’ll start putting up 18-20 pts, 10 rbs, 4 assts, 2 blks a night. No, that isn’t out of the realm for Josh.
papar bag hawk
April 4th, 2011
12:09 pm
True, but JC2 is a microcosm of a greater ill of the Hawks. Terrible personnel decisions. He is the latest incarnation. Inefficient, but again what is to be expected of a rookie, who in essence just started his NBA career a month and a half ago due to a coach who apparently can’t include developing players as part of the resume? We have players on our team now who go 8 for 22 shooting a bunch of jumps shots at a much more expensive price.
Dawglasville
April 4th, 2011
12:09 pm
Yes. I was a huge Josh fan because of the upside. Now I believe we have seen his best and it is not good enough. He doesn’t want to bang. Remember all of the offensive rebounds Nique use to get? He wants no part of the paint. If he had Horford’s brain and heart he would be Rodman or better. He is a coach and fan killer but so is Joe, Marvin…
juice sourcer
April 4th, 2011
12:15 pm
The Hawks really do suck as an organization. After reading this you realize they have no shot…..they are stuck and have no way out.
Trojan
April 4th, 2011
12:18 pm
Who knows from an organization that drafted Pape Sy. The Hawks management is HORRIBLE!
Baddabing
April 4th, 2011
12:19 pm
Addition by subtraction, I say. As talented as Josh Smith is he kills the spirit of this team. When he plays smart with enthusiasm and energy he’s an All Star but that is infrequent. Most of the time he doesn’t hustle and you can see it brings the whole team down. When he’s shooting jump shots which seems to be almost every game now we lose, that’s not his strength or role on this team.
MistaGamer
April 4th, 2011
12:22 pm
As a writer wrote in a recent SI.com article. It will be a said day when the Hawks have no choice but to trade Josh because they massively overpaid for Joe and shipped his replacement and a 1st round pick off for Kirk Hinrich.
People, the problem has been, and always will be the GM/Ownership group for always being incompetent, always late, and always way too short.
If Rick Sund is not the #1 “Barney Fife” of NBA GMs he is surely 1b!
Veteran Fan
April 4th, 2011
12:28 pm
Trade Josh for Kevin Love. Then go with JJ and Zaza to the Nets for Lopez and their #1! Use both #1s to get Jimmer Fredette and resign Jamal! Front line is Lopez, Horford, and Love, rebounding, effort, and points galore! Good defense and excellent mid-range shooting! Backcourt Hinrich and Crawford with Teague and Jimmer off the bench! Marvin is there if other team goes small and Wilkins is there too! PLEASE break up the CORE!!!!
TomB
April 4th, 2011
12:29 pm
This organization is incompetent. They need new owners, a new GM and a new head coach. The moves by this GM and his bosses leave no room for hope. I’m starting to think the owner who balked on the J.Johnson hire was on to something.
O'Brien
April 4th, 2011
12:30 pm
Mark,
I am a big fan of Horford. But the problem with keeping him is he wants to play PF full time. But I think if Josh would be more disciplined and focused, he has the talent to be a better PF than Horford.
steeldawg
April 4th, 2011
12:31 pm
When Josh is out on the floor he plays the role of a #3 or #2 on offense. He is our power forward and he never comes close to the paint. Why can’t they run a pick an roll and get him moving towards the basket. Where are his low post moves, or offensive rebounding? The worst thing that happened was that he started hitting a couple of those silly 18 foot jumpers. Now he thinks he can hit an outside shot. Trade Josh and Marvin even if it is to clear money off the books. Pickup another center to play with ZAZA. Then move Al to the #4. Look at some of Al’s and his father’s comments. They dont want him stuck at center, and could look to move. Once, the Josh and Marvin money is off the books you can bring Dwight Howard home. Joe, Al, and Dwight would be the best “big three” in the league. Joe at the end of his career, might even agree to re-work his contract for that.
O'Brien
April 4th, 2011
12:33 pm
For those calling for Brook Lopez, dude is 7′0″, 265 lbs, and as their starting center, he only averages 6 rebs per game.
steeldawg (O'brien)
April 4th, 2011
12:37 pm
Josh has been here seven years and all we get is the undisciplined and not focused. You dont trade Al’s sixteen points and eleven boards. You know what you have every single night. Josh came to the Hawks as a teenager from Atlanta. A change of scenery would benefit both.
gomabman2
April 4th, 2011
12:43 pm
Mark, the question is, will Larry Drew be jettisoned? Wow…this guy is unbelievable. Never mind the fact that he didnt play Jordan Crawford, but he simply cant coach. There is something fishy about this hire. The guy blew the game in Houston by not rotating his big men, etc, etc. I’m sorry, but Woodson is a much better coach and this Spirit bunch should lower their pom poms and sell the team to someone who cares!
Joey
April 4th, 2011
12:46 pm
I read last summer that Joe Johnson’s contract would “kill” the franchise for 10 years. Tune back in 2021.
GTT
April 4th, 2011
12:48 pm
Do you still believe the Hawks HAD to re-sign Joe. They are painted into a corner, in that their easiest route to upgrade now is to trade Josh. Oh, and JC2’s performance since the trade is reason enough to fire Drew right this second.
CobbHawk
April 4th, 2011
12:50 pm
We need to move Josh Smith and find a viable option at center. We have been without a worthwhile center since Deke left, and that’s been a long damn time. I love Zaza’s spirit and fight, but he’s just too undersized. Al is a phenomenal player with great technical ability and skills, he really knows the game and knows how best to utilize his game (i.e. he doesn’t take long range jumpers every freaking time he gets the ball – yeah I’m looking at you Josh). However, Al is not a center – again, undersized to match up against the better centers in the league. And Collins is just a waste of space, honestly.
Our lack of a center means that we get hammered inside by everyone who plays us. We just don’t have the big man down low to make teams think twice about driving the lane. Nor do we have a guy who can bang down low to provide an offensive option to our current game of poorly chosen or forced outside jumpers.
So I say again: ship Josh for a viable big man. It must be done.
Mark Bradley
April 4th, 2011
12:51 pm
I thought not re-signing Joe Johnson would have been worse than re-signing him. But now I’m reconsidering.
Stuart
April 4th, 2011
12:56 pm
Mark,
Do you think New Jersey and the Russian billionaire would consider taking Joe’s contract? Possibly deal for Deron Williams in a sign and trade for him if he decides not to return with New Jersey?
CobbHawk
April 4th, 2011
12:58 pm
I’m also kind of upset about Larry Drew. It always upset me when I’d see Woody sitting on the bench seemingly just watching the game go by without any input. The guy looked too much like a spectator than a coach; no fire, little involvement in the game. Perhaps it’s just me; I’m the type of person who, if I was coaching, would be prowling the sideline the entire game, never sitting, and always yelling and trying to make adjustments, or at least being vocal in supporting the team even if I wasn’t trying to make adjustments.
It just seems to me like Drew is a carbon copy of Woody: chair-bound all the time, watching the game and never actively trying to get the team to do anything while the ball is in play. Maybe I’m wrong, but this is the impression I get from watching the televised games (I admit I have not been to a game in-person this year, so take these opinions with salt shaker in hand).
broken wing hawk
April 4th, 2011
12:59 pm
Still can remember when we drafted jc2 I was happy telling the boys how the hawks just nade a real good pick late in the draft its a shame we got these stupid owners and GM that would give all that away for captain kurt not sayin he is a bad player but we could’ve gave them less we got hustled
Zing
April 4th, 2011
12:59 pm
I know this is a fan blog, but c’mon, man, you really think we’d get Love for Josh? No freakin’ way. That’s about as likely as… JJ re-working his contract.
Did anybody notice what I thought was a really telling quote from JJ recently? When asked about Bibby buying out his own contract so that he could play with a winner, JJ said he “was surprised, but it’s not my business” or something like that. He was surprised that Bibby actually cared about winning as opposed to being all about the money, which is what JJ IS. All. About. The. Money. And he’s got it all, now.
Incidentally, guess who our 8/22 scoring lots of points guard is? JJ. At least Jordan C would have cost only about 1/50th as much for similar production.
phil
April 4th, 2011
1:00 pm
I agree with you again, Mark, but I reconsidered several months ago. We blew this one, badly….that’s nothing new with this team though…they rarely get it right…by right, I mean a team that can advance in the playoffs past round 2….wait, that means they never get it right….sorry.
Defensive intensity….offensive intelligence….strong coach….we have none of the three consistently….obvious to anyone with a brain.
Mark Bradley
April 4th, 2011
1:00 pm
I’m not sure any team could absorb Joe’s contract even if it wanted him desperately. There’s a cap, you know.
broken wing hawk
April 4th, 2011
1:01 pm
Niremetal name one hawk that ain’t putting up stupid shots? At least JC2 is putting up 20
Tee
April 4th, 2011
1:02 pm
Thanks so much for casting Jordan Crawford off to us in DC. Before trade, all I knew about Jordan Crawford was that he dunked on “the king” and lit the Wizards up for 30 points in pre-season. However, iI hadn’t just read your comments, I never would have realized that his defense was supposedly an issue. In DC, he’s been ball’ on both sides of the ball — making crucial steals, disrupting passing lanes, leading fast breaks, passing off on time and on target — and playing offense like Earl the Pearl reincarnate. He and John Wall work beautifully together, and Mo Williams brought us some much needed tough, aggressive vibes. Thanks again, Atlanta.
Mark Bradley
April 4th, 2011
1:05 pm
My thinking (at the time): If Joe Johnson left, it would have sent the message — to free agents and to the Atlanta audience — that the Hawks weren’t serious enough about winning to keep their best player.
Trouble is, he’s not their best player now.
steve brown
April 4th, 2011
1:07 pm
Niremetal-whatever drugs you are on please share-tell me the last time a Hawk guard (”who can see the court”) had 10 assists as Crawford had the other night during his triple double.
Joey
April 4th, 2011
1:08 pm
Dang, offer some other team to pay half of Joe’s salary. The Hawks would still come out ahead . . .
If you want to get sicker over this, check this out and look how many players are ahead of him that make less money – most a lot less.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/year/2011/seasontype/2
Joshua Barlowe
April 4th, 2011
1:09 pm
How about you CUT Joe Johnson and Marvin? They both big paid as big-time players but play very like average players. It’s a joke that JJ was an All-Star. He has talent but absolutely no FIRE whatsoever.
lkjdga
April 4th, 2011
1:11 pm
Josh will stay if the asg thinks they need a 6′10″ shooting guard that wants to hang at the perimeter and shoot 3’s
gomabman2
April 4th, 2011
1:13 pm
We should be careful what we ask for here! Remember, the dealings that have cost us in trades and drafts in the recent past. Calling for Josh to go is a great big mistake. Those who know and watch b’ball on a regular know that Josh is a beast while playing in the confines of the offense. Does he take a few too many outside jumpers? Maybe. But who doesnt shout when he nails one of those big rainmakers when the game is on the line? Compared to let’s say, Odom at 39%, JS shoots 32% from 3pt range. He’s developing his outside game. Of course we would like to see him at the post more often, this is a coaching issue more than a Josh issue. Hubie Brown said it best…you design plays to keep Josh down low allowing defenders to double down, freeing up the guards. Josh is a valuable piece and the focus should be on the management staff, not the players.
Walker, Texas Ranger
April 4th, 2011
1:17 pm
The Hawks are in the same trap they were 15 years ago. Good team with no possibility of getting better because they were maxed on contracts and they were drafting the 23 rd best player. They blew up the team, got back in the lottery then draft Marvin Williams instead of Chris Paul and Sheldon Williams instead of Luol Deng, along with about 4 other horrible picks. And now here we are with an above average team and no way of improving. Blow it up and lets start again.
WreckingBall
April 4th, 2011
1:20 pm
Jordan Crawford has become the BRETT FARVE of the Atlanta Hawks. Crawford was sitting on the end of the bench languishing similarly to what happened to former falcon and benchwarmer Brett Farve until Farve was traded away and became a star and a household name. The same thing has happened to Jordan Crawford. Jordan was at the end of the Hawks bench not getting any playing time at all, but he was skilled and talented and had the potential to be an elite player if given the chance. Now that Jordan has gotten his chance, he has made the most of it and is now one of the elite players in the game along with LaBron James, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant and Dirk Norwinski. Jordan Crawford is now in their class as he has been discovered as an ALL-WORLD STAR by the Washington Wizzards. Too bad. The Hawks could have really used Jordan Crawford in the playoffs this year.
elroy
April 4th, 2011
1:21 pm
when will the AJC jettison Bradley & most of the other so called columnists? AJC needs to more than the hawks do w/ anyone on their roster.
Peter
April 4th, 2011
1:23 pm
Mark what you are telling is a tale of how poorly the Hawks are managed by owners, the folks in charge of player selection, and contracts.
Jordan Crawford, apparently didn’t fit in with our dribble style of offense, where everyone takes a jump shot and that is about it.
We still don’t have a legit point for the future, or a center, and that has been the case for how many years ?
Marvin is not on the court a crunch time, and neither is Teague…..but hey JJ can dribble the clock out throw up a prayer, and say he doesn’t care if Hawk fans want to come see the awful basketball they play.
They are still too small to be contenders, and the coach, well somebody on the roster may listen to him someday ?
Things will get much worse for the organization, until it is finally sold !
Walker, Texas Ranger
April 4th, 2011
1:24 pm
Smith will never be any better than he is today because you can’t teach him to shoot and he will always think he can shoot 3’s. He needs to have his arse on the blocks and pass when ge gets more than 10 ft. from the baseket. Dominique was the same way the only difference, Dominique could score at will inside but he always thought he could shoot a 3.
dave
April 4th, 2011
1:24 pm
don’t trade him. .. just tell him to stop with the stupid fall away, long range jumpers. go low post,drive to the hoop, then dunk it or pass it to a real jump shooter. Trading Josh would weaken the defense more than it would help the offense. We need to keep the blocks and the steals
Time
April 4th, 2011
1:25 pm
Bradley needs to be jettisoned.
Joe is the one that needs to go. Shouldn’t have ever resigned him. But now that we have, we need to look to New Jersey or New York or one of these other teams that freed up cash for FA’s this past offseason and deal him away for a bag of chips.
And enough with the stupid Atlanta fans ripping Josh for shooting 3’s. Ok he does shoot some bad ones on occassion. But the vast majority of his 3’s come after Joe has pounded the ball into the court for 20 seconds with the rest of the team standing around doing nothing and Josh ends up with the ball with time running out on the shot clock.
Walker, Texas Ranger
April 4th, 2011
1:29 pm
WreckingBall, the difference was Favre was a drunk rookie while he was suppose to be learning. He would have never started his 1st year but had his eyes opened when he was traded where Crawford was drafted to take JJ place when he became a free agent and the rest is ancient history. I remember a guy going to Phoenix at the 2 and doing pretty good there as well.
JewelNelson
April 4th, 2011
1:29 pm
The same thing that just happened to Jordan Crawford will soon happen to Jeff Teague if Teague is continually allowed to just sit, rust and not play in the games at all. Teague is a phenominal talent and just needs the right coach who can recognize teagues talent and extract and showcase it for the world to see. Larry Drew will never see teagues talent becasue drew doesnt believe in teague. You can tell a coaches belief in a player by the number of minutes the player is getting on the floor. Teague is currently getting zero minutes so that translates to me that larry drew is absolutely no belief in teague whatsoever. Teague will eventually get traded away and will become virtually as good as Nate “Tiny” Archibald a hall of fame point guard who played with the Celtics in the late ’60s and early ’70s. Teague will be just as good because Teague can shoot the basketball and he is LIGHTNING QUICK a foot as far as his speed is concerned.
D in ATL
April 4th, 2011
1:29 pm
This is what happens when you give head coaches short term contracts. No commitment to a coach from ownership leads to short term decision making. Thus, why would a coach take his lumps early in the season with young players? First, Jeff Teague and now Jordan Crawford, who was never given a chance and now has his (immense) talent on display with Washington. We never had the chance to evaluate his scoring ability, if he fits in with our team, or even if he would have made Jamal Crawford expendable this season (in the last year of his contract) for other upgrades. It makes you sick to watch this ownership and GM consistently “yuck” it up with their pitiful decision making. Why do I pull for these guys? Oh, because they wear “ATL” on their jerseys. Believe me that is the ONLY reason!
JeJe
April 4th, 2011
1:31 pm
MB, you’ve always said you’re not an LD fan, but now you think it’s more on the players
I’TS BOTH
FIRE LD
black bee
April 4th, 2011
1:32 pm
JOSH IS NOT THE PROBLEM IT IS MANAGEMENT and OWNERSHIP!!!!!
JSS
April 4th, 2011
1:32 pm
Kinda hard to catch a “Concorde” since they been out of service since 2003… It was a funny joke. Got any Apollo jokes?
Kareem's mom
April 4th, 2011
1:33 pm
hE’S THE ULTIMATE HEAD CASE. mAY BE SURPRISED THAT THERE’S NOT MUCH OF A MARKET FOR SOMEONE WHO CONTINUALLY TAKES ILL ADVISED SHOTS OUT OF HIS RANGE, WON’T LISTEN TO COACHES AND NOT MUCH OF A TEAMMATE
Falcfan
April 4th, 2011
1:34 pm
I’ll add to what Glenn said….we won that game against Boston because Zaza did the blue collar work to get it done….and he wasn’t pulling up from long distance and firing erratic jumpers….he just did the job. why in the world can’t smoov understand he hurts the team when he’s outside shooting jumpers? What is so difficult to understand????? Get down low like Zaza did and do the dirty work for goodness sake!!!!!!! QUIT TAKING JUMPERS SMOOV!!!!!! PLEASE
W/E
April 4th, 2011
1:34 pm
We don’t beat Orlando 3/4 times this year without Josh, he’s the one matchup that they have no one to account for. I get the logic of the article, but the only way I’d trade Josh is for a top-flight pg…which would work better if we still had a 1st round pick to package with him. I actually like Hinrich, but giving up Crawford and a first-round pick was waaay over Hinrich’s value. Resigning Jamal this summer would be fatal for this franchise seeing as that would give us to 30+ year-lod SG’s with 10 mil+ contracts. That Boston game was the only good one he’s had in a month…use the 10 mil we’d spend on Jamal on a young guard who can score…like JR Smith, but we all know Atlanta Spirit isn’t smart enough to do that.
James
April 4th, 2011
1:36 pm
Joe Johnson needs to be traded even if the Hawks have to pay have of his contract he needs to go and they need to re-sign Jamal Crawford.
JSS
April 4th, 2011
1:38 pm
Josh won’t be sent elsewhere unless they find some real post defenders who protect the basket. That is secondary to them finding some players who are not adverse to guarding the perimeter…
W/E
April 4th, 2011
1:40 pm
Crazy idea, how about trade Joe to the Cavs for their #1 overall (would work they have a trade exception and are desperate for a headline name) and draft Kyrie Irving with that. (a real PG finally) and then spend the remaining on JR Smith and a real Center/ Small Forward.
Make me GM, I’ll do it for a 5th of the price and build a title contender whilst remaining under the cap
Judge Judy
April 4th, 2011
1:41 pm
Speaking of Hawks and ex hawks to be, anyone rember when Nique was in trouble wit the law for writing bad checks when he was on top of his career? The old C & S bank I believe, his mon was handling his money and he was throwing it away to family and friends and cr@@ he didn’t need and couldn’t afford. Seem to remmeber him in trouble at UGA also. Now he owes a dude a bunch of money, he pushes the dude first then slugs him and the other dude gets arrested? HUH? And nique still owes him the money. For those of you that forget nique was the ultimate chucker, one of the all time leaders in shots taken -(even though he was a poor shooter), lousy rebounder and defender, and poor assist totals for someone that had the ball so much. As they say check it out -other than taking lots of shots -hence scoring points -why is he a Hall of Famer?
Tlaw
April 4th, 2011
1:48 pm
Trade this summer to rid us of Joe’s contract
Joe to Utah for Okur( and his expiring contract) Raja Bell, Jeremy Evans and their 2011 top 5 pick. We get okur for one year at center.. bench help in Bell and Evans, start over with a Utah’s Top 5 pick
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3ers3bc
gomabman2
April 4th, 2011
1:48 pm
What I hear over and over again is players this and players that. These guys are professional ball players and have earned that in one way or another. JS is a legitimate pro ball player. It is easy to point fingers at the players, but any group without a leader is like a chicken with its head cut off. Really and truthfully, mgmt did not supply Woody with the players he needed. He led the Hawks back to the playoffs with what he had to work with. Good job considering the Eastern conference. Spirit, or lack their of, hires Drew who promised some sort of pseudo change. He is not Woody, but an under experienced coach who should not have been hired. The problem is the coach and owners who have no commitment/experience to win. We need a wholesale substitution in the front office. Let’s call for that change so that we do not get rid of valuable talent, stupid trades/drafts, and bad coaching.
Glenn
April 4th, 2011
1:50 pm
@ Walker Texas Ranger
I think your post is spot on except we took Josh Childress instead of L Deng & took Sheldon Williams over Brandon Roy . Marvin Williams over Chris Paul or Deron Williams was the kicker though . A really good point I’m thinking is the best way to add wins immediately . But yeah we traded Steve Smith for JR Rider who was nothing but a headache & a couple years before that we traded Dominique for Danny Manning . Both trades were reaches . In each instance we traded futilely to get over the proverbial hump . The thinking on Joe Johnson I believe was he would be tradable in couple of years & if ASG wanted to sell the team he would look like an asset . I’m not ready to bury Rick Sund yet but both Pete Babcock & Billy Knight were not very good evaluators of talent & now we don’t really seem to be able to develop it anyhow . The best investment ASG could make would be on a top flite coach . A motivator type that could get this team playing harder .
SK
April 4th, 2011
1:59 pm
Player changes and perhaps a coaching change will have to occur. Get rid of Smith, Williams, Johnson and possibly Drew by whatever means necessary. The hawks organization must put a better product on the floor to win games and attract fans. Mediocrity and fan apathy will continue until a more effective and cohesive team is produced.
JeJe
April 4th, 2011
2:01 pm
It’s sad because Josh, when he tries, can probably be about 80% as good as LBJ, which would make him a top 10 player
Unfortunately, he does not try most of the time
W/E
April 4th, 2011
2:01 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Najeh Davenpoop
April 4th, 2011
2:04 pm
Trading Smoove would be the uncreative and ultimately ineffective thing to do. Trading Joe would be the creative and correct move. And seeing as how we are in the midst of a season that saw Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas, and Baron Davis all get traded (all players with contracts just as bad and production worse than Joe) trading Joe is by no means out of the question.
Trade Joe/Kirk/Marvin for whatever short term contracts you can get, build the team in the short term around Teague/Smoove/Al, and bring Dwight Howard home in 2012.
Jackets 2011
April 4th, 2011
2:05 pm
If one had been a Hawks fan the whole time they have been in Atlanta, mostly you’d have spent lots of time screaming “no, no, no” concerning their trades. (not to mention…)
I hope ASG loses their shirt if they haven’t already.
W/E
April 4th, 2011
2:10 pm
For the Win
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Zing
April 4th, 2011
2:17 pm
I’m with Najeh @2:04. Totally correct path to take. Can you imagine Howard with Josh and Horford?? My God, that would be a seriously killer front court. Ship out JJ– not JS.
chem
April 4th, 2011
2:27 pm
Brad, I told you the Hawks got hosed in that trade, and I stand by my assessment. Bibby for Hinrich would have been close to even. Hinrich’s defense isn’t that much better. Sund sold all the living room furniture to get a new coffee table.
gomabman2
April 4th, 2011
2:28 pm
Quite honestly, we have become a little to obsessed with how much a player makes. We can forget about the financial implications of it all because pros are going to get whatever their agents manage to get from the owners. Some contracts good, some bad. If we do not like that part of the business, then maybe some should resort to their local community park and cheer on t-leaguers. The problem in Atlanta is poor management, and bad coaching. As a result, the mgmt and coaching staff have shown too much favoritism toward certain players without the sheer commitment to win. We must embrace our group of players and call for mgmt to either sell the team, or get busy on the draft/free agent board, or find a suitable coach.
Atl1netime
April 4th, 2011
2:28 pm
I DONT KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS IN ATLANTA…BUT….ALL FAIR-WEATHER ATLANTA FANS….PLEASE EXIT….STAGE RIGHT….Let me be the first to say that some of the trades and pick-ups I found a little perplexing and I cant say that I even agreed with them but what I am seeing on blogs for the Hawks and previously with the Falcons is simply upsetting. The Hawks have gotten better. I’m sorry if it has not come as quickly as many would like but they are better. They had multiple seasons where they couldnt win 30 games…yet…in the past 3 seasons they make the playoffs. The falcons same thing with 3 winning seasons in a row…but THE FANS…….YES ANY AND ALL WHO ARE IN THE MIDST OF READING THIS COMMENT…THE FANS HAVE BEEN AWFUL. Who goes from the cellar to the penthouse in 3 years…..heres the answer….NOBODY. NOT THE LAKERS, BOSTON, NOBODY. This franchise has come from the bottom of not only building a team…or a franchise….but simply to the point of having a winning tradition. We have to become winners before we can become champions, and our fan base does nothing to help. We dont help our teams become winners we simply wait for something to point at….a chink in the armor…so we can say ah..haa…thats the reason. Even it the Hawks go in the first round it is better now than it was for 15 years. Shame on any and all of the Fair-weather fans…as for me…..WIN OR LOSE…..GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!! (STILL MY TEAM!!!) DOGGONE FAIRWEATHER HATERS….
Astro Joe
April 4th, 2011
2:31 pm
In a perfect world, you would find a way to get rid of Josh and Joe. Short of that, move Josh. Watching him become an All-Star with another team would not nearly be as difficult as watching him spend 18 years in a Hawks uniform and never get out of the second round.
Did Dwight and Josh win anything as AAU teammates (where their athleticism and limited skills would have been most useful)?
wxwax
April 4th, 2011
2:44 pm
I’m just not convinced that Rick Sund is the kind of guy who engineers a smart, big trade.
He’a a maintenance engineer, not an architect.
CavilierJones
April 4th, 2011
2:46 pm
The Hawks blew it in the Hinrich trade. The Hawks have a history of making bad trades. As someone pointed out, Hinrich for Bibby straight up would have been fair and equitable and we would still have Jordan Crawford AND Mo Evans. We gave up far, far too much for Hinrich and Hinrich appears to be a complete BUST. Hinrich has trouble scoring most of the times and when he shoots a 3-pointer it usually ends up being an airball. For the three players we gave up to get Hinrich, we should have landed a superstar in return, maybe someone like a Dwight Howard. The Hawks management is stupid and they will continue to ruin our team until it is depleted and completely void of talent.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 4th, 2011
2:46 pm
“Quite honestly, we have become a little to obsessed with how much a player makes. ”
What players make wouldn’t matter if the salary cap didn’t exist and the ownership wasn’t financially limited. I don’t begrudge Joe (or Marvin or anyone else) for getting his money at all. More power to him. But the fact is that those long term bloated deals limit the Hawks’ ability to improve the roster. This isn’t baseball where you can sign Kenshin Kawakami to a long term deal and run business as usual as if nothing happened.
coachx
April 4th, 2011
2:48 pm
I don’t think teams will give you much for #5 given his attitude and reputation around the league for being a lound cry baby during games.
The rumors that #5 cussed out both Drew and Hinrich in the 3rd quarter of the Celtics game does not help his value………especially considering how well ZaZa played in that 4th quarter come back win vs. The Celtics. Besides his attitude his shot selection and decision making are just plain awful on court. You don’t see contenders with a key player who makes as many menatl mistakes on the floor as Josh Smith.
Astro Joe
April 4th, 2011
2:54 pm
Any long-term roster plan that calls for Josh playing more than 2 minutes at SF is a fundamentally flawed roster plan.
Zing
April 4th, 2011
3:03 pm
Anyone who thinks that a Howard-Josh pairing would be deficient in some way is taking generous helpings from the happy pipe. Who cares what they did as AAU teammates?? I mean, seriously? I remember watching a high school all star game matchup between Howard and Randolph Morris, and Morris kicked his butt. So, the Hawks should run out and give Morris a go again, right? Good grief.
Zing
April 4th, 2011
3:05 pm
I only “obsess” about the amount of money players are making from a GM-what-do-we-have-to-work-with perspective. Frankly, if the big tv contracts, expensive tix, corporate sponsorships and etc. create a big pool of money, let ‘em have a big chunk of it. Spread the wealth around a little.
The Kiss
April 4th, 2011
3:11 pm
Keep Horford. Dump the rest. Maybe keep ZaZa as an able backup for whichever underachieving Center we run out there, and he is buddies with Al. The main reason the Hawks are a playoff team at all is Al Horford. Somebody has to get those rebounds and putbacks after Joe Johnson does his usual “1 on 5″ isolation shots. Sigh. Don’t even get me started on Josh. If only we could put him in for defensive purposes only, but alas we have to keep him in on the offensive side and watch him shoot low-percentage rainbows from 4-point range.
Veteran Fan
April 4th, 2011
3:15 pm
Fine trade Marvin, JJ, Zaza, and our #1 to Orlando for Dwight! Just PLEASE break up the CORE!
Coach D
April 4th, 2011
3:40 pm
I’m tired of seeing Josh’s “Ole’” defense instead of taking a charge. He’s a hell of an athlete, and a good basketball player but the Hawks will not go anywhere if he is one of their top 3 players.
Astro Joe
April 4th, 2011
3:40 pm
Zing, are you suggesting that Howard and Josh would have no deficiencies? Are you kidding? Did you watch Dwight struggle against Collins? Dude can’t adapt to the defense being played against him. Have you watched Josh lose focus within games (not to mention from game-to-game)? No deficiencies? If you’re paying these guys big money and neither can shoot beyond 16 feet (consistently), then who is stretching the defense (or haven’t you noticed that Dwight isn’t quite as good without elite shooters around him)? Oh, maybe Teague, Sy and Gladyr are providing that sharp-shooting skill in the dream that has us landing Dwight to join with Horford and Smith.
Jo Bling
April 4th, 2011
3:51 pm
I love these posts about trading players because it’s always entertaining to read all the comments about “trade Josh for ____” or “trade Joe for ____” or “trade Marvin for ____”. To all of those commenters I would say, get real people. A trade is a two-way transaction. You can’t just unload your trash on someone else and expect to get something worthwhile in return. The real world doesn’t work that way.
Do you really think the TWolves would trade Kevin Love for Josh Smith? Why in the world would they do that? That’s insanity. It’s no secret to the rest of the league that despite his obvious talent, JSmoove is still more of a liability than an asset. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again and again and again. Josh Smith will never, ever win a championship with anyone. Why? Because he refuses to play to his strengths, which is what the Hawks desperately need him to do. And the coach and the critics simply cannot make him change. If he would take the ball to the hole every time he touched it he could dominate the league. But he won’t, and I’m convinced now that he never will.
And do you really think the Cavaliers would give up a shot at Kyrie Irving or Kemba Walker for an aging and increasingly ineffective Joe Johnson and his massive contract? Are you crazy? Not going to happen.
The only way to unload your trash is to get a lot less in return, hence the disastrous Bibby trade where we lost two first-round picks for another aging and increasingly ineffective player. Sund should be fired for giving up two first-round picks and not making the team any better. That’s just incompetence.
gomabman2
April 4th, 2011
4:50 pm
Najeh, it is no doubt what long term contracts do, even in baseball (i.e. Mike Hampton). But the focus is often on how much someone is getting…you are right, these contracts are given due to the ridiculous mgmt some teams have. This isnt just an Atlanta problem. Fans should look more to the owners and mgmt, for they hold the golden pen. Who can fault a guy for negotiating as much money as he can from his boss? I surely cant. And if many of these bloggers would dig within themselves they wouldnt either. So the call goes out to ASG to really consider the fans and the pride that some of us have in our teams, and just sell. Not to just anybody, but a fan of the game!
ScoopJackson
April 4th, 2011
5:12 pm
What the Hawks gave up for Hinrich is utterly ridiculous! We literally gave up approximately 53 points of scoring for about 3 points (Hinrich) per game given the recent surge in Jordan Crawford’s game. I saw on ESPN the other day that Jordan Crawford is averaging about 28.9 points over his last four games or so (UNBELIEVABLE!). Then when you add Bibby’s 14.0 points and Mo Evans 10+ points per game we literally gave up about 53 points per game in scoring for 3 points in return. THAT IS NOT ONLY HIDEOUS ITS STUPIDITY IN THE NTH AND HIGHEST DEGREE.
Zing
April 4th, 2011
5:14 pm
Astro Joe:
Any GM in the league would do cartwheels for a tandem of Josh and Dwight. Seriously.
Perhaps deficient wasn’t exactly the right word–no player is perfect. But there wouldn’t be a better defensive team in the league… and defense, as we all know thanks to Charles Barkley… wins championships.
welikebaseball2
April 4th, 2011
5:29 pm
So…some of you think Josh is what’s wrong with this team? I wonder how anyone with common basketball sense could think we’d actually be BETTER without him….particularly as a defensive team. Management is delusional, ownership is an embarrassment, & coaching is inept. I guarantee that if you put Josh in a system in which the coach has a clue & management/ownership doesn’t make boneheaded roster decisions, he’d reach his potential.
gomabman2
April 4th, 2011
5:32 pm
Right, Welikebaseball2
Jo Bling
April 4th, 2011
5:36 pm
“I guarantee that if you put Josh in a system in which the coach has a clue & management/ownership doesn’t make boneheaded roster decisions, he’d reach his potential.”
You guarantee? I’d be willing to bet my entire retirement savings on that, and not least because no team where the coach and management have a clue would ever have him.
gomabman2
April 4th, 2011
5:43 pm
Bingo Jo Bling! I would also like to see the fans band together and petition this ASG, or ABC, or whatever Sesame Street bunch they represent to sell the team to a sports fan, a basketball fan. And oh yeah, a coach would be nice come draft day?
andrea
April 4th, 2011
6:59 pm
We are the most stupid team of all nba ….from coach to owner …but we play eastern where even me and my friends can win some games…ther s no way out , nobody will take jj because the most stupid have him already….but we have the secret weapon for play off…….POWELL …..the only player that in a minute make 2 foul 1 turnover and traveling …….amazing !!!!! 1 million …….!!!!!
Big Ray
April 4th, 2011
7:53 pm
Mark ,
That’s why you’re the real writer, and why I’m the fan hack, LOL.
Just wait for the piece I intend to write when the playoffs are over. The core has to change, and I’ve got a few ideas, as I’m sure you do as well.
Big Ray
April 4th, 2011
7:54 pm
Man, is that Pape Sy a long-armed sonofagun or what? Billy Knight would be proud…
Mark Bradley
April 4th, 2011
8:47 pm
I don’t know, Big Ray. I can’t hold a candle to the things you write. I’m a fan, sir.
Buddy Grizzard
April 5th, 2011
3:49 am
Also agree w/ Najeh. I’ve suggested more than once on MC’s blog that Josh is the most trade-able player because he’s talent, could command significant assets in return, and has the same role on the Hawks as Al Horford (power forward who likes to shoot jumpers… Al is just better at it).
However, Najeh is correct on both points: Joe Johnson is *NOT* untrade-able; and trading Joe instead of Josh would do more to help this franchise. Joe’s production and accuracy have already fallen off significantly this year. This will only get worse the farther into the contract he goes.
Now is the time to find a sucker like the Nets, who are on a deadline to surround Deron Williams with significant talent before he walks away as a free agent after next season. We would have to take back some of their garbage, i.e. Travis Outlaw, Jordan Farmar, Johan Petro. We’d have to absorb some of those contracts to make the numbers work, but they are all signed for fewer years than Joe Johnson.
And if the traded netted the Hawks an unprotected first-round pick in 2012, we could both mitigate the disaster that Joe’s contract is for the franchise’s future aspirations, and take a shot at drafting a future all star who will be paid on the rookie scale.
Cedric
April 5th, 2011
7:42 am
Nobody on this team should not be considered for a trade. Also, why doesn’t anyone call Horford for his tendency to bring the ball up court?
DS
April 5th, 2011
10:22 am
Mark and/or MC should be hired as Hawks GM!
JJ acts like a va-jay-jay
April 5th, 2011
10:27 am
thats our history hawks fans. we trade away a young asset and he promptly starts ballin and throwin up a triple double. tell me you are not surprised. i have watched enuf hawks games and followed these clowns enuf to know that one thing has stayed consistent these 20 years i have been watching the hawks. we r below average at drafting, very below average at developing talent and even further below average when it comes to making trades and signing free agents. for thses reasons i will continue to jump on and off this rollercoater ride we call hawks history.
WreckingBall
April 5th, 2011
12:06 pm
Next year (Michael) JORDAN CRAWFORD will be the MVP of the ENTIRE LEAGUE. (Michael) Jordan Crawford will beat out D-Wade, LaBron, Kobe, Derrick Rose, Carmello, Dirk, and Durant in the MVP voting.
WreckingBall
April 5th, 2011
1:49 pm
Jordan Crawford was ballin so HARD and so STRONG against the Miami Heat last week that the three kings were reduced to being three queeens. The QUEENS were as soft as tissue paper. As good as LaBron, D-Wade and Bosh are, they were no match for the new Sheriff in town–JORDAN CRAWFORD–39PTS–WOW–. i STILL CANNOT BELIEVE IT! D-Wade, Chris Bosh and Labron (King) James, COLLECTIVELY COULD NOT STOP JORDAN CRAWFORD FROM MAKING FOOLS OF THEM AND SCORING 39 POINTS AGAINST THEM. Believe it or not, Jordan Crawford is now the best player in the game today. And the sad part is that, like former falcon Brett Farve, Jordan Crawford was langiuishing on the end of the hawks bench, toiling in complete and unmitigated obscurity just waiting and begging to be discovered (similarly to what Jeff Teague is going through now with the Hawks).
MJC
April 5th, 2011
3:07 pm
I bet if we had D-Wade, the so-called “fans” on here would let him shoot as many threes as he wanted.
Oh, wait, what’s that? D-Wade is a worse 3-point shooter than Josh? Nevermind then, nothing to see here.
Realsquawk
April 5th, 2011
5:51 pm
I am pretty sure the Hawks could trade Joe Johnson.
MitchC
April 5th, 2011
10:00 pm
Mark, the problem is this, and it has been a continuing theme through more than three decades, and three generations of Hawks personnel.
Simply put, this team, whether as constructed, their on court demanor, or both, doesnt have that closer, killer instinct. They’ve never had Magic, Bird, Kareem, Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, or Dewayne. What they have had through the years, when successful, is a group of decent players, and maybe one great one, (Dominique) that got them to a point, and then the team fizzled. That point, so far, is the Eastern Semis.
In the 1980s, we couldn’t beat Boston. In the 1990s, it was most often Jordan that ended our season. Then, we had seven bad seasons, and “rose again”, only to reach the same plateau we always have.
While you describe the Magic as “beatable”, I’m not sure we will beat them without home court. It would not surprise me a bit to see the Hawks bow rather meekly in Round 1 in five or six games. As well as the Bulls have played this year, I would be shocked if we beat them in a Semi series.
I dont know if trading Josh Smith is the answer. What do they get for him, and if they do trade him, what happens from there? Whoever we get, isn’t going to make Wade, James, or the Celtics go away.
I’ve said for a couple of years, I believe this team has reached it’s plateau. They are a good team,, not great, that can’t stand up to the big boys come playoff time.
Unfortunately, with the East as it currently is, especially in Miami, I dont see this circumstance changing anytime soon.
Anonymous
April 5th, 2011
11:42 pm
I have the solution ASG does not want to hear.
They can sell the team to someone who cares….
OR
They can fire Sund, fire Drew, get a center, get a good GM, get a good coach, hopefully the coach will be good at developing players (Doc Rivers), help Teague.
OR
Go back in time: draft Chris Paul and Brandon Roy, bring the prime of Dominique back to the future, and make Doc Rivers be the coach.
GTHawkFan
April 6th, 2011
6:03 am
Possible (and workable trade scenario):
Smoove, Crawford(ATL) for Okafor, Jack(NOR)
ATL stays under the cap with a replacement for Josh’s shot blocking and a true C that can eat up glass with a combo G that can score and distribute.
NOR gets a replacement for West (since they won’t be able to pay for him) to keep CP3 interested in staying and a capable scorer beside or behind Paul.
(*the only issue with this deal working is how much Crawford will be paid)
WreckingBall
April 6th, 2011
11:35 am
I really dont know why most fans are not satisfied with the Hawks. They are extremely capable of superiority over any opponents. The problem is that MOST OF THE TIME the Hawks are bored and dont play great basketball because they are lazy. The Hawks second problem is with Josh Smith. Josh is mostly stuck in a rut of bad habits and the old addage is that OLD HABITS ARE HARD TO BREAK. When you watch a Hawks game, you can be sure Josh will do three things every single game: #1:dribble the ball up the court recklessly eventually turning it over; #2:launch ill-advised bad perimeter jump shots (mostly 3-point shots) missing badly; and #3:make bad passes to other teammates turning the ball over. You hope that all these mistakes will be offset in Josh’s box score with a ton of points, rebounds, assists and blocks. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. If Josh can eliminate his bad habits and play his game above the rim he will become a perennial all-star.
WreckingBall
April 6th, 2011
1:06 pm
Someone wrote that its woodsen’s fault why jordan crawford was not discovered by the Hawks. What about larry drew? Drew wouldnt play jordan crawford enough to tap into his talent level and find out that Jordan was a superstar. Jordan Crawford, like Brett Farve, is a certain first-ballot hall of famer who could never get any playing time because the greatest talent in the history of the NBA (MARVIN WILLIAMS) was blocking his progress, getting all the minutes that Jordan should have gotten. Its ridiculous and stupid that the Hawks are in this dilema. Had the Hawks held on to Jordan Crawford, he could have helped the Hawks win the NBA title this June. Oh well, like all the other failed draft picks and bonehead mistakes, this one ranks above all of them.
Thomas Walker
April 7th, 2011
2:31 am
Mark, it has become very apparent that to this point Joe Johnson isn’t the elite guard that can fill it up against the elite teams of the league. I don’t know if its just the pressure of being counted on to score against the elites. He does seem to take advantage of screens set for him or pass the ball in a manner to another teammate in a position for them to score.It is so frustrating to see him get a screen and to dribble into the double team and get the ball taken away or pass the ball to Josh on the wing for a low percentage shot.
Josh has improved his overall game this year. He is learning to shoot from outside to a degree, but you still hold your breath when he launch one from the outside. His inside game just isn’t refine enough to make a living down there. To me, he wants to be a guard but he’s stuck with the talent to be a monster rebounder and shot type talent. It does seems as though he wants to embrace that role.
ZaZa is another key that seems to not be able to jump a tap to get a rebound but if he gets mad enough to play he has a nice game. He appears afraid to shot the ball, though.
With all of that said though, the Hawks will not get out of the first round unless they all embrace their role with the team and above all Joe show up with game….