Would new Hawks/Thrashers owners make a real difference?
Found! Visual evidence of an actual Hawks crowd! (AJC photo by Hyosub Shin)
Last week esteemed colleague Chris Vivlamore reported that two groups have inquired about buying the Hawks and Thrashers with the intent of keeping both teams in Atlanta. Which got me to thinking:
The Hawks are 25th in the 30-team NBA in home attendance, averaging 14,613 per date. The Thrashers are 28th in the 30-team NHL in home attendance, averaging 13,031. (Philips Arena seats 18,700 or thereabouts.)
Neither franchise excites the populace. But what if the franchises were handed to an ownership group other than the much-lampooned Atlanta Spirit? Would it make a difference to you, the paying (or non-paying, as the case may be) public?
Ordinarily, I’d suggest that ownership matters little when it comes to buying tickets. (Arthur Blank buying the Falcons was different, but I’d also suggest he was the exception.) But the Spirit has compiled such a worksheet of squabbles and lawsuits and strange personnel decisions that it’s possible these addled owners have contaminated both brands. But if that worksheet were to be wiped clean and a new set of owners to start afresh …
Loading ...Would you be more inclined to patronize their clubs? Or would you look on these franchises and say, “Eh, they’re still the Hawks/Thrashers”?
I’m asking because I don’t know, and I’m not in a position to know. (I get to go to games for free.) So, as we say in pickup basketball: A little help, please. Let me know how you view it. Because you’re the folks who’ll matter.
With that, I’ll hang up and listen to your answers. And, as ever, I thank you in advance.
By Mark Bradley
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135 comments Add your comment
Nate
March 2nd, 2011
3:34 pm
Mark – Yes, especially if the new owners (on the Thrashers side specifically) adhere to the old adage that you have to spend money to make money. Money well spent equals better players, which should equal more wins, which will lead to more fans. Just look at the attendance figures for the 2006-2007 season when the team made its only playoff appearance. If you build it (a winner) they (the fans) will come (to Philips).
I don’t hold out much hope for the Hawks. They got sucked into big contracts before teams started building teams of 2 to 3 superstars of which the Hawks have none. The Hawks have peaked in my opinion because of that. I don’t see them beating the Celtics, Heat, Knicks, or Bulls in any playoff series.
Hawkanoid
March 2nd, 2011
4:17 pm
Atlanta…Imagine if we could buy alcohol on Sunday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TOM_UuQzc0
foncused
March 2nd, 2011
4:33 pm
Three comments:
1. Absolutely. There would be a new honeymoon period. Both teams would need to put a quality product on the ice/floor to maintain that honeymoon
2. Philips Arena has gone from a shiny diamond to a turd. The TV’s don’t work. The old Omni scoreboard doesn’t work. The building is dark especially in the Thrashers Nest. The place is not particularly clean. They don’t have speakers in the bathrooms so you miss the action if you have to go. You used to be wowed . . . now, not so much.
3. As far as the Falcons new stadium. People need to learn and understand State law. The stadium proposal is being funded by Hotel Motel taxes. State law dictates what you can and can’t do with Hotel Motel tax dollars. While 3% of the tax can be used for “administrative” costs, the majority of the tax must be used to promote and attract tourism, etc. There is a complete list of do’s and don’ts in Georgia Code O.C.G.A. § 48-13-51. Please educate yourselves.
Jeff97
March 2nd, 2011
5:00 pm
New ownership would make a bigger difference with the Thrashers than the Hawks. The Hawks are at least a more competitive team and are closer to being an elite team. New ownership especially in the begginning would be huge especially if they have an immediate impact similiar to what has occurred in Tampa and to an extent in Chicago. Remember, about 5 years ago the Blackhawks had a really bad owner who would not even show their home games on TV and they were drawing 12,000 per game. They get new owners and now are selling out and won a Stanley Cup, and this happened in an Original Six City….If we get new owners willing to spend money initially, upgrade Phillips (we need a new HD jumbotron) and spend money on players, the teams will improve and it has been shown that people in Atlanta will come out for winners.
Mitch4404
March 2nd, 2011
5:15 pm
It would definatly make a difference to me as a former Season ticket holder and Would help rebuild the trust in the organization which now is at a all time low among Season ticket holders and hockey supporters Whoever comes in will need to have deep pockets not only for on court and on ice aquisitions but also marketing both teams.
grumpy old hockey fan
March 2nd, 2011
5:21 pm
Yes. If an owner spends the money to provide an honest, talented product, people will fill the seats.
ryan
March 2nd, 2011
6:12 pm
To the new owners bring Dwight Howard home and also go after Chris Paul create a buzz for Atlanta don’t make the same mistake cheap ASG did or us fans will not be so forgiving .
Iron League 13
March 2nd, 2011
6:31 pm
I’ve been here for 30 years and the last time anyone cared obout the Hawks was definitely back when they had Dominique Wilkins and I don’t think that’s saying too much. It’s always funny to me when people say this isn’t a hockey town, cuz sure as Hell isn’t a basketball one either. Tech has a vastly more rabid fanbase for their hoops program FOR SURE and that’s of course a very specific demographic of people too. I don’t know what to say, the Hawks would likely have to win it all or come close before they would fare better.
That said, yes, I’m a hockey guy, but the proof’s in the pudding. When the Thrashers had a nice little streak in November/December of 2010 the attendance rose, the Bruins game I was at was well over 17,000 on a weeknight. About a week into the current skid in early January and POOF all that fan interest just up and vanished like. So far as hockey (an amazing sport, IMHO) is concerned, yes entertaining winning hockey draws pretty good. It goes without saying what , Time Warner, the F.A.S., LLC and YES even the NHL has allowed to have happened to this tragic franchise.
I do agree with a full on re-branding of the Thrashers FULL ON name look, everything let’s forget the past. I don’t see the point for the Hawks, but I do vote that they go back to the Dominique era look and watch em sell more merch too.
Someone else brought up the arena being downtown, well not that I don’t think it shouldn’t be closer to where the large bulk of paying customers reside, but anyway that won’t happen for a decade or so and needs to be built by the teams, not the tax payers. Anywho wants to get hasseled buy bums walking with their toddler from the car to the venue. I chased a fake parking attendant who ran off with my money around the Tabernacle and across Luckie, had an altercation with a thug that wanted to yell at me for no reason on Walton and got bit on Ponce (used to live in the city). Don’t tell me it’s safe, that’s BS.
Iron League 13
March 2nd, 2011
6:34 pm
Enter your comments here
eugene
March 2nd, 2011
6:49 pm
A city like Atlanta only supports winning teams. If the Hawks were perennial contenders in the NBA finals, the games would sell out. Same with the Thrashers. You could say bring in new owners, but who’s to say new ownership will be any more competent than the current ownership?
simpleminded
March 2nd, 2011
7:46 pm
ABSOLUTELY will be buying Thrasher season tix once the “SPIRIT” is EXORCISED!!! We are just waiting for the day that a new local owner is announced.
I’ll go so far as to say that hockey fans here will even be patient if the owner says, “Hey look, we are in this for real and for a long time. We won’t promise a championship in a year or even 3, but we will promise to show we care, to learn the names of our players, and to be there for our fans.”
All we ask is not to have our hockey team be treated like the red-headed stepchild.
AtlFlamesFan
March 2nd, 2011
7:58 pm
No doubt about it. I have been involved in hockey since the Flames came here in 1972. While I go to almost every home game, I personally know many FORMER Thrasher STH who are sick and tired of throwing away money to owners who don’t care about winning. Getting rid of Don Waddell is also a must. Whether or not he is to blame does not matter. He has been the face of ineptitude and many fans will not come back unless he is gone.
Mat"T"
March 2nd, 2011
8:08 pm
Mark,
I am a huge Thrasher fan living in Athens. So I will never buy season tickets. However, I will make it a point to attend at least 8-10 games a year with new owners. Right now I am attending only a couple of games a year.
Falafal House
March 2nd, 2011
8:38 pm
Enter your comments here
Falafal House
March 2nd, 2011
8:41 pm
Thrashers will be leaving for the peg.. deal was in place well over a year ago… NHL policy has it that they have to attempt to find local buyers before entertaining relocation. You will see these perspective buyers come and go and this team will be sold to TNSE. Then we can all pretend to be surprised. Yotes will stay in phx… for a few more years before moving to QC. Take it to the bank.
Suburbs
March 2nd, 2011
9:20 pm
can they move the hawks to the Gwinnett arena? it’s too dangerous to go to atlanta with all the homeless, thugs and rif raf around the phillips arena. I haven’t been down there in a year.
Iron League 13
March 2nd, 2011
10:05 pm
Suburbs – No The Arena at Gwinnett is FAR too small, about 13k max, again far too small. No offense to those that ask this or want this but also WAY too pigeonholed by location. That’s a THREE interstate/hwy ride for much of the burbs like Marietta or Kennesaw. Besides the monolithic improvement in family friendly environment over downtown (see my last post that’s not sarcastic) it’s just not possible.
ashtray
March 2nd, 2011
11:09 pm
Hey Flop House, if the “deal was already done” then the NHL will be sued out the a$$ by potential local buyers for collusion and deception. ASG has already lost tons, daddy Turner found out about underhanded selling as he had to dole out $280 million to David McDavid for circumventing the rules and selling to his goon squad Octotards.
Ask Balsillie about circumventing the written rules….
If there’s a “done deal” I’ll be among the first in line to sign up for a class action suit against all 8 owners (yeah, you too Belkin), Gary Bettman, Winnipeg, the NHL, and any new owners. The news will come out and illegal business practices is frowned upon in this country. PS…. enjoy the high temp of -19 today while the high in Atlanta is almost 70. The NHLPA will probably protest the move too. Who’s gonna wanna play in front of a bunch of Moose?
Falafal House
March 3rd, 2011
12:11 am
You will see shortly how this plays out… Illegal business practices are frowned upon in this country? You’re kidding right? Thats how 99% of deals are made today. ATL is done. No fans. No support and NHL has a seamless way of making sure they get what they want… Look at the yotes in PHX.. they found a sucker of a council, sold them some fear and almost has them handing over 200 million to finance an illegal deal… yes, it is -19.. guess what i’m doing? Playing hockey outside!
Tim
March 3rd, 2011
2:54 am
Yes…an owner who is in attendance at games and excited about the team would entice folks to come to the games. Arthur Blank and Ted Turner are good examples of what works in Atlanta.
MJC
March 3rd, 2011
4:19 am
I’m tired of people saying that the Hawks just need to go out and get a good center and point guard. Guess what? There isn’t a bunch of them just hanging around waiting to be signed by a team.
Dwayne
March 3rd, 2011
8:28 am
My ideal weekend would be to catch a Hawks and Thrashers game. Do you realize the money that would take just for me? I live 250 miles south and would make the drive 3 times a year, if the duel weekend games are available. Plus hotel, food and gas for 2 nights. BUUUUUUT, not with these inept owners. They are idiots, the Atlanta Spirit A$$ Clowns, Octotards(when there were
now they are the Sucknificant Seven Dwarfs.
JDFA
March 3rd, 2011
8:29 am
NEW OWNERSHIP +SOME TOP MANAGEMENT CHANGES
flintrock70
March 3rd, 2011
9:38 am
1)Make it easier to get there
2)Clean up the surrounding area
3)Sell upper level ticket for super cheap like AB did at the Dome.
moriler
March 3rd, 2011
10:34 am
1) Move the arena to the center of the northside where the money can reach the games. Nobody wants to come downtown and deal with traffic, parking, and other BS anymore — especially trying to make it by a 7:00PM start time! MARTA trains don’t reach far enough and the bus system is a joke.
2) Lack of attendance is because of lack of winning. Lack of winning is because current ownership are a bunch of tight-fisted, litigious weenies who won’t spend money — Thrashers are at the salary cap FLOOR and almost always have been. Atlanta won’t come to see loser teams; we have the Braves and Falcons to spend money on instead. (”Blank”)
3) Don’t feed the Weeniepeg trolls, they’re just sad because they still won’t have a team next season… or the season after that… or any season until the NHL expands to 32 teams. Which won’t be soon.
da' boomer
March 3rd, 2011
11:16 am
hockey-wise the following things MUST be done to make hockey matter in atlanta:
1. fire done waddell
2. own their farm system. this relationship with chicago is not working. we need the entire farm system to be on the same page as to the system they play. it allows us to ‘plug and play’ to players we bring up. seems to work for detroit. i hate ‘em, but you cannot argue with their success.
3. scouting system – indentify they players that work in this system. we have missed a lot of boats and considering all of the early round picks, it is astounding how few have stuck
4. move the team to the ‘burbs. philips stinks for hockey due to the big blank wall on one side. thanks stan kastem..you douche. as for the burbs – pure and simple demoegraphics
5. FIRE DON WADDELL
Zombie Steve
March 3rd, 2011
11:16 am
A new ownership must show the same commitment that Blank did when he bought the Falcons… otherwise, it doesn’t matter who owns these teams.
jimcee
March 3rd, 2011
11:21 am
If new owners emerge they MUST engage the Atlanta business community (Coca Cola,Home Depot,UPS,Delta Airlines etc.) and work with them to put forth a fresh message that they are commited to the city,fans and surrounding area.Having an NHL and NBA franchise is a privilege that many other cities pine for and won’t get.If Atlanta were to lose its second NHL franchise in history it sends a message that the city is not nearly as dynamic as it purports to be.Cities that are exciting,thriving places don’t let multimillion dollar businesses flee…they do everything they can to keep them.There are hockey fans in Atlanta as past season’s attendance figures show but coupled with the Great Recession of 2008-2010,a distracted ownership group and a lacklustre on ice team they have lost a lot of fans.Is it too late, I don’t think so but it will take a lot of time and money to get the fans back.
MannyT
March 3rd, 2011
11:45 am
New ownership can make a difference. Some folks have more resources to pay for stars. Look at NJ Nets vs NO Hornets. One has a new owner that wants to make a splash. The other had an owner essentially get the NBA to take over the team. Which do you think is more likely to make a splash in terms of excitement or attendance over the next few years.
Tommyt4
March 3rd, 2011
11:49 am
Simple answer: my chances of re-upping my Thrash season tix after another lost year and the recent pompous and foolish statements of Mr. Gearon: not great. Chances of re-upping under new ownership: 100%
kj
March 3rd, 2011
12:18 pm
New owners and better teams can’t change the fact that it’s a beating to go downtown for a weeknight game. 7pm games are too early but traffic sucks after the game too so at least you get home a LITTLE earlier but if you decide to take Marta, you have to put up with the scurvy on the train and then hope you don’t get mugged at Chamblee (insert your station). HD then looks like the better option!
I’ve lived in several hockey towns: Detroit, Buffalo, Columbus, Dallas and ALL are easier to get there and back and not make you regret going to a game. I’m afraid the fact that driving anywhere in the ATL sucks will forever make strong attendance futile.
Zelmo Beatty
March 6th, 2011
7:21 am
Go Hawks…..and take the Thrashers with you! Neither team excites the local populace because neither team has any post season relevance. I think we’re all just tired of losers in this town and cannot invest emotionally or financially any longer.
NOMORESPIRIT
March 7th, 2011
9:45 pm
longtime Atlanta fan, as much as i’d love for this to change it won’t. Atlanta doesn’t care and why would this change for a city that could care less?I love my Atlanta teams but it’s hard to believe in a team when your 99% sure of failure. And basketball is different than any other sport. People care more about a player than a team. Get a huge marquee player and the fans will come for basketball. I won’t but more people will come.
East Point Bob
March 7th, 2011
11:51 pm
PMC, I agree with you 100%. I would likely return with new ownership, one who would FINALLY Fire that inept Liar waddell, The Main reason this team stinks no better than the expansion years. He alone has hurt this franchise more than anyone will ever know. No new owners, Not going to the worst located arena in the USA for sure !
Howard
March 9th, 2011
10:02 am
A few points. First it wasn’t that long ago that the Commissioner of baseball was very critical of Atlanta fans for not supporting the Braves. Along came 1991 and things changed. The fans will support a winner.
Thrashers: We were season ticket holders a few years ago (the year after the Thrasher’s went to the playoffs). The team got rid of a lot of there better players that summer. Additionally, the atmosphere changed. The Thrashers did away with a lot of promotions including the games in Phillips like spinning the wheel to win prizes. Seems like they also did away with the organist. Even the things on the screen have gotten stale. Bottom line is this ownership group tried to own a professional franchise on the cheap.
With regard to the Hawks. I was a big Hawks fan when the decided to ditch the older players and start anew. Watching the young players grow was fun. I bought tickets occasionally and watched on TV all the time. When they went after Joe Johnson I was disappointed. But I hung in there. This year I did not go to any games and hardly watch on TV. They spent all their money on JJ and now have no hope of having a good point guard or a big center who can complete with the big centers in the league.
Bottom line, if new ownership came in and (1) knew what they were doing and (2) were willing to invest (i.e., lose money at first) I think it would make a big difference and people would show up.