10 not-quite-random thoughts on the Bibby-for-Hinrich deal
Will Mike Bibby's replacement fare better against the pictured Jameer Nelson? (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
1. Kirk Hinrich is much better defensively than Mike Bibby and will be more than a swinging gate versus Rajon Rondo or Jameer Nelson or Derrick Rose come the playoffs.
2. Hinrich might be better able to play alongside Jamal Crawford than Bibby was. But I’m not sure Hinrich will play as well in tandem with Joe Johnson, who’s not easy to complement.
3. When the Hawks traded for Bibby in February 2008, he was 29 and had started nearly every NBA game since leaving college. Hinrich is 30 and hasn’t been a full-time starter since 2008. (Granted, it was Hinrich’s misfortune to have been on teams that drafted two point guards — Rose and John Wall — No. 1 overall.)
4. Hinrich’s career three-point percentage is .379. So is Bibby’s. Hinrich has averaged 5.7 assists per game. So has Bibby.
5. Hinrich is under contract through 2012, which gives the Hawks a year’s cover if/when Crawford leaves as a free agent.
6. Hinrich makes more money — $9 million to Bibby’s $5.5 million this season, $8 million to Bibby’s $6.2 million next — so we can’t accuse the Hawks of taking the cheaper way this time. But it’s unclear whether this trade pushes the Hawks above the luxury-tax threshold, which is always a concern with the Atlanta Spirit. (And you’ll note that the Hawks currently have only 14 players on their roster; the NBA allows 15.)
7. As much as fans had soured on Bibby, he remained hugely respected by teammates. Josh Smith told me earlier this season that Bibby set the best screens of any Hawk — try finding another point guard who fits that description — and he was utterly unafraid to take the big shot.
8. The Hawks had better win now because they punted away much of their future. They traded two No. 1 picks — Jordan Crawford and this year’s first choice — for Hinrich and Hilton Armstrong. That’s a lot to spend for a 30-year-old point guard who has never been an All-Star and who hasn’t been starting at the position he’ll be asked to play.
9. Given the draft record of Rick Sund and Dave Pendergraft, not having a No. 1 pick this year might not be so damaging. In two years they’ve landed Jeff Teague, who has disappointed two head coaches, and Jordan Crawford, who scored 67 points as a Hawk.
10. There’s little time for assimilation. Of the Hawks’ remaining 25 games, 15 will come against teams that currently hold winning records. (Heck, 12 of the next 15 will be against opponents above .500.) The Hawks are fifth in the East, a game and a half behind Orlando and four games ahead of the Knicks. It would be surprising if that position changes before the playoffs commence. Which would mean: Kirk Hinrich would indeed get his chance to chase Jameer Nelson in Round 1.
Oh, and one thing more: According to esteemed former colleague Michael Lee, now of the Washington Post, Bibby was so upset by the trade that he is considering buying out his own contract. (In the NBA, this is known as going the Zydrunas Ilgauskas route.) Lee reports, however, that such a tack might not be feasible for Bibby.
By Mark Bradley
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155 comments Add your comment
KevinM
February 25th, 2011
12:20 pm
Najeh, cosign and if Kirk can ignore Josh as the shot clock winds down and not pass it to him on the perimeter, I think it is the 1st step in a wise investment. Now, convincing the rest to not do it…..
Najeh Davenpoop
February 25th, 2011
12:20 pm
“Anyone ever see Bibby and Amy Winehouse together? Didn’t think so.”
Or Verne Troyer for that matter.
KevinM
February 25th, 2011
12:25 pm
Celtics, Knicks or Orlando at the moment……
Powe believes he can be a contributor on any team looking to win it all. “I love to play defense,” he said. “I can get some scoring, rebounding, and some extra toughness. That’s my type of game. I think every team could use that, but we’ll see what happens from here on out.”
Hmmm, nope, we don’t need that here……..
Paul in RDU
February 25th, 2011
12:26 pm
The Hawks may not have the best front office and draft record but at least your not like my “local” NBA team and have a deity for an owner who makes bizarre trades and drafts.
rob
February 25th, 2011
12:27 pm
Odd for Josh Smith to talk about people setting screens. He hasn’t set a decent 1 since he’s been here. He short-cuts every time to try & get himself open.
nate
February 25th, 2011
12:29 pm
Kevin, you said it dude. We will miss Bibby, and wish him the best, but it was time. On the topic of J-smoove, he is a terrific player and I don’t think he should stop shooting, but its more about when he is shooting. I’d like to see him 1)not shoot early in the shot clock 2) only take threes when he has time to set up for that slow release of his 3) get his game going on the block first and the defensive end. He is the type of player that thrives off of momentum, and the hawks thrive off of him when he is playing his game.
S(n)oaring Hawk
February 25th, 2011
12:36 pm
MB, Whos name is it that made the the descision for the trade? He is the hack. He needs to be let go…
gt
February 25th, 2011
12:37 pm
Bibby had the best personality for this team, his father ex player now assistant coach in the league, his brother in law in the league, He was part of the blue blood NBA.. The oldest guy but kept things light for the younger players, I am not sure he was that heavy to carry on defense either. Never played on a team or watched one that the guys in the middle were not wanting more help from the guards Who plays defense anymore anyway.
Kirk Hinrich is white. There are some guys on this team that have never been around many white players, more less white people period. If Bibby was light, Hinrich is the exact opposite. I am not sure this works. Seen it blow up in a lot of situation especially in college. The Ga.Tech defense froze out Cooper Taylor. Hopefully college kids are immature and these pros will act like pros. I am not sure you can even write about it, you sound like a bigot, but on this team, in this town, with this coach this will be a factor.
Dr. Warren
February 25th, 2011
12:41 pm
New owners. That is the only answer. And I wish it were a new owner, singular. And a good one.
nate
February 25th, 2011
12:46 pm
gt, thats dumb. Those guys are professional athletes. Race ??? Really??? hahaha. Kirk will be just fine
RC
February 25th, 2011
12:48 pm
Take a looke at Hinrich’s playoff stats. He avearged 21 and 20 ppg in his 1st two years in the playoffs. He has a career 15.8 ppg average in the playoffs. I say he is by far a better playoff performer that Joe Johnson which isn’t saying much. I think he brings toughness to this hawks team that besides AL Horford, show no tougness and heart whatsoever.
Marcus
February 25th, 2011
12:49 pm
Our NBA fortunes the last couple of years are akin to being put in the “friend zone” by the the resident bombshell of the opposite sex:
.Not good enough to get serious (relationship/progress towards NBA title) but good enough to keep around (make playoffs, contend in East, 2nd round exit); not quite bad enough to get in the lottery to snag top 10 talent (sympathy lovin’ LOL), but just good enough that we don’t have salary cap room due to paying for our young talent and best players Horfy/JJ/J-Smoove (hang around beautiful women, but no one considers as serious mate), nor desire to spend above the luxury tax to attract top free agents (’mack game lacking’) or management, coaching and collected talent isn’t enough to get the top FAs to want to establish their own Big # in ATL (’nice guy syndrome’)
KevinM
February 25th, 2011
12:49 pm
rob, Josh doesn’t get big bux to do the little things like setting screens….His eyes are on the prize and flinging up the rock!
Right now, he gets up almost 14 shots/game, which is okay with me…like you said, its the ones he settles for that is the issue.
Joe – 17 shots / game Al – 12 so their is plenty of balance among the big 3.
Sharing the ball is not the problem on this team, and Larry has gotten them to buy into the system.
4 Jacks
February 25th, 2011
12:54 pm
Bottom line is the ASG all suk, and the teams will never win anything while these pathetic losers own the teams. New ownership could at least give us some hope, but I would not get my hopes to high. everything the ASG does makes it tougher and tougher to be an Atlanta sports fan, I mean what the use? God, please get rid of these LOSERS for us and bring us a real owner that will keep the teams here and run them like a championship organization would…PLEASE…oh, and Gearon and the reat of the ASG, go to hell, or at least get out of Atlanta…
BarneyStrickland
February 25th, 2011
12:55 pm
SEE? SEE? I STAND VINDICATED. I TOLD THE HAWKS WERE SOLD…DONE DEAL….WHEN? IN THE LAST COUPLE OF BLOGS YOU POSTED…. LOOK BACK!! AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT OR WHAT? oh, so this is what the caps lock key is….lol !! But ya know… I wasn’t so sure they could dump the Thrashers on anyone…. Crazy world, eh?
mountain_jim
February 25th, 2011
1:01 pm
Sund overpayed for this trade, just like he’s overpaid all the untradably expensive average players on his team (Za Za, Williams)
Let’s all hope for new owners – current ones never had a clue and let BK and now Sund blow draft after draft, trade after trade. Well getting Jamal was a good deal but should have traded him before season and got some long-term value. Could have traded Marvin if not for his being so overpaid by Sund.
Once this team crashes and burns early in playoffs, I would hope whoever owns it would replace Sund and the current cheap, getting-walked-over-by- his-players coach.
mountain_jim
February 25th, 2011
1:03 pm
Oh and can someone wake up the beat writer? 2 days and 17 pages and no new blogs, or other worthwhile information post-trade made and trades attempted.
Dave
February 25th, 2011
1:06 pm
SOMEbody (read Larry Drew) needs to stand up to Josh Smith and call him out for his attitude and team play. The guy could be great if he didn’t think he was so great and got his head screwed on right.
KevinM
February 25th, 2011
1:07 pm
jim, 2 things:
1) Marvin/Zaza are overpaid
2) The bigger issue is that both are overvalued by our bball expert currently known as GM Rick.
Simple math, we overvalue our assets and you see what Bibster cost us to move him…….prime doesn’t come close to describing the Wizard’s new PG acquisition.
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The Sham
February 25th, 2011
1:11 pm
@ Mike Bibby – We’ll miss you man! You were a rare realist in this game of egos of primadonnas. It’s hard to find a guy who understands his value (see contract negotiations) and his role (less minutes over time to help groom the your successor), but can nail the 3ptr late to keep the game alive.
I only wish you had a little more step to block of the perimeter.
You and your class will be missed! Good luck!
The Sham
February 25th, 2011
1:16 pm
block off that is…
Ted M
February 25th, 2011
1:26 pm
The Hawks will likely lose in the first round.
Tremaine
February 25th, 2011
1:35 pm
About time we get to blog. Bibby was washed up and all the hawks that are sorry that they lost their joker can join him in Washington.
SOUTH GA DAWG FAN
February 25th, 2011
1:38 pm
does anyone else think that the hawks are in a tail spin and will be lucky to hang on to a playoff spot and then get bounced ugly in the 1st round. I hate to be negative but I have watched the games and there is no fight in them right now.
but it won’t do them any good to crash and get in the lottery with no pick.
dang what a trade!
N.D.T.K.A.
February 25th, 2011
1:39 pm
Bottom line is Bibby could not guard or stay in front of my grandmother and was killing any chance of the Hawks playing any semblance of defense.
All the 3 pt.-shooting in the world won’t help if you can’t stop anyone.
Hawks haven’t developed any 1st round picks in a long time especially any player picked up late in the 1st round that had to be actually coached.
Hawks are not the Spurs or Celtics. Hawks coaching staff is light years behind Doc Rivers and his staff or Popovich and his staff. Rondo is a bad example to compare to the Hawks, we have Ty Hill and Bob Bender for God Sake!!
Hawks just need to do like Denver did last night attack the basket, focus on defense, and try to out run teams with athleticism like they did last year when they swept the Celtics.
ME
February 25th, 2011
1:39 pm
ITS SAD THAT OWNER OF THIS TEAM TRY 2 DO EVERY THING ON THE THE LO AND END UP OVER PAYING..IT GOT 2 BE DRUGS…AS FOR THE PLAYERS THEY NEED TO GROW UP THEY DONT PLAY FOR EACH OTHER OR THE FANS ITS ABOUT THEM WHAT THEY WANT OR WHAT POS THEY NEED 2 PLAY..HOW DO YOU GO FROM GOOD TO BAD..U GIVE UP OR GIVE IN TOO NAME A FEW ZAZA WHEN HE WAS STARING HE PLAY GOOD NOW LOOK AT HIM BUT THERE BENCH SUCK AND THAT PART OF THE PROBLEM..MOVE MARVIN TO CENTER AND BRING THE BOSS OFF THE BENCH
Tremaine
February 25th, 2011
1:41 pm
Thank you Rick Sund for making us about as good as we were the last 2 years we got swept. “GIVE TEAGUE A CHANCE!”
Ol #6
February 25th, 2011
1:53 pm
I hear Kawakami can play the point.
Robert Barron
February 25th, 2011
1:58 pm
Great minds (well sports minds) think alike.
I made point 9 on the Sports Vent this morning.
Getting voted down though.
Has a minus one score so far at 1:55 PM.
Good article.
But aren’t we getting to know the real Mike Bibby too late?
Tremaine
February 25th, 2011
1:59 pm
I heard Jeff Teague was pretty good. Just need a coach that will give him a chance.
Robert Barron
February 25th, 2011
2:02 pm
Hawks have been epic fail with trades.
Traded Silas after rookie of the year for worthless player just to have a token white on the team about 1968 or 69.
Traded Nique while leading the East and wrecked that team’s chances for mediocre Danny Manning.
Tremaine
February 25th, 2011
2:04 pm
Robert Barron, please don’t remind me of the Nique trade. That was our best chance at getting a title since I been alive and they traded it away. SAD!!!
Mr. Phil
February 25th, 2011
2:10 pm
I am not concerned about the draft pick(s). From all accounts, this years draft will be the worst in the history of organized sport.
GT Alum
February 25th, 2011
2:20 pm
Mark, to expand your thought on the Hawks’ draft history, starting with the 2005 draft, the Hawks have selected 1 player that has really been an impact player for them. Considering they’ve had 3 of the picks in that period were top 5 picks, that’s not a good track record.
niremetal
February 25th, 2011
2:28 pm
But I’m not sure Hinrich will play as well in tandem with Joe Johnson, who’s not easy to complement.
Uh….methinks Steve Nash and Mike Bibby would disagree.
Robert Barron
February 25th, 2011
2:32 pm
Sorry Tre.
It is an bad memory.
Our best shot and a GM too stupid to realize it.
Tremaine
February 25th, 2011
2:43 pm
Hopefully ASG sell the hawks to somebody who actually cares about building a championship team and not just trying to make a dollar.
YardDawg
February 25th, 2011
2:58 pm
Shoulda sent Teague instead of J Crawford.
Puzzled
February 25th, 2011
3:08 pm
MB,
You didn’t consider all the facts related to this trade in reference to point #6. The Hawks strongly considered the financials of this deal, and will come out in the black as a result of this deal. When you include Jordan Crawford’s salary for next year, and the money that would have gone to the 1st round pick for next year, the Hawks will come out in the black.
The difference between the salary figures for the two guys that the Hawks received vs. the three that they sent away for this year is minimal (for Sports Business), and will be pro-rated over the last 25 games. The Hawks should be safe from the luxury tax.
Disappointed that you didn’t take a little more time to appropriately address this. We look to you and your colleagues for information, so please give it to us in it’s entirety.
Puzzled
February 25th, 2011
3:18 pm
On JJ’s max contract…If the Hawks were going to get someone in here to play with him, he may have been willing to take less cash, i.e. Wade, Bosh & James in order to help that happen. But it looks as though he knnew that the Hawks would burry it, i.e. cash received on draft day & mid level trade exception.
The talen on this team is better than the record that they have, and the way that they have played.
cantondawg
February 25th, 2011
3:29 pm
I can understand how you can trade Hinrich for Bibby straight up. But to throw in two #1 draft choices is ridiculous. Of course with the way the Hawks draft it probrably won’t matter
Tremaine
February 25th, 2011
3:30 pm
MB you just got served!
JeJe
February 25th, 2011
3:30 pm
LOL @ this garbage about our team freezing out Hinrich for being white.
If I recall correctly, Jason Collier was a team favorite on a team full of black players years back. He and Al Harrington were best friends
idiots
KevinM
February 25th, 2011
3:31 pm
Rick Sund on 680 right now…he is saying everyone on this team is in their prime again.
He calls Hilton Armstrong another big and we need those.
He says he will miss Jordan Crawford, but that other draft pick wasn’t a big deal to move….
He says the club is now accountable and the team now has scar tissue withe the losses to Orlando and Cleveland the past 2 years.
I agree with him on this: this is the year to move forward.
He REALLY likes Kirk Hindrich to start out the interview. He couldn’t say enough about how many ways he will help us.
Talking the playoffs now….he is pleasing the hosts about the team’s last 2 years of 2 years playoff success in the 1st round.
The Rock
February 25th, 2011
3:40 pm
Of course Sund is going to accentuate the positives about the trade…he made it! Does’t mean that it was good, just that he likes it.
The Hawks need another big? For what, to sit on the bench and watch the game? You mean that Collins, Zaza, Powell, & Thomas are not doing that well enough. They actually need help to do that?
I’m sure he meant for practice!!
Mark Bradley`s Booster
February 25th, 2011
3:45 pm
Sad to see someone bring race into this. Sure there are only a few white players in the NBA. However, those who are there must have their jobs because the teams they play for feel that they are good fits. Otherwise they would not be there. This is not fair to the black players to say that they do not get along with whites. Race is a non issue here…its all about building a winning team
with the best players available no matter what color their skin is.
flea
February 25th, 2011
3:55 pm
Anybody remember the Steve Smith trade after we got swept by New york back in the day for Isiah Rider and Jim Jackson? If we dont get out the first round. Or we fail miserably in the second round(getting swept, blowed out, etc.) Then everyone that is tradeable will be gone, except Johnson and Horford. Let’s hope that doesnt happen
bigdawg
February 25th, 2011
3:58 pm
Every team above us – and now the Knicks – has a SUPERSTAR. The Hawks do not and have not had one since ‘Nique! The Hawks will never win as long as the (Lack of) Spirit owns them b/c they won’t spend the $$$ to get us a top-shelf player!
Sure is sad to be a Hawks fan and know you ain’t got a shot from day one!
heartofdarkness
February 25th, 2011
4:00 pm
1. He will still need help on guard penetration, which may or may not be there, depending on how his teammates feel on any particular evening.
2. Bibby could watch iso-Jamal as easily as Hinrich although he could defend against the hot guard, while iso-JJ is more likely to make the pass to a perimeter shooter with less than 2 seconds on the shot clock.
3. Both are old in NBA years and will come back slowly from 36 plus minutes the night before.
4. Both rely on strong performances elsewhere to win against the top tier teams.
5. Hinrich will cover a roster spot, not Crawford’s offense.
6. The Hawks could probably jettison a couple more bodies from the roster without appreciable effect.
7. Bibby’s arrival improved the team’s offensive cohesiveness, and one hopes you asked Josh why he didn’t set the best screens on the team. The Hawks would be better if everyone on the team was as professional as Bibby.
8. I can only conjure the image of the Captain on the Titanic ordering all engines full ahead after hitting the iceberg.
9. Yes, the picture becomes much clearer when a franchise knows it doesn’t draft or scout young talent well, has a hard time selling free agents on the chance to win a championship, and has over paid much of its roster. The NBA seems a nice place to make a small fortune. But only if you start with a large fortune.
10. I would be concerned that D’Antoni’s system rejuvenates Chauncey and Carmelo over the next couple months, while the Hawks continue to sulk on the court. There has been a big drop off in the Hawk’s interior passing and getting players open looks at the rim since the season started.