Why the Hawks still haven’t gotten past missing on Chris Paul
Chris Paul (in blue) is not now, nor has he ever been, a Hawk. (AJC photo by Hyosub Shin)
Every Hawks blog post elicits the same two reader comments. The first: “We should have drafted Chris Paul!” The second, following close at hand: “Can we please stop talking about Chris Paul?”
Reader No. 2 has a point. The draft in question came in 2005. But a misspent pick of 5 2/3 years ago is the gift (to other teams) that goes on taking (from the Hawks).
History lesson: The Hawks entered the 2005 lottery with the NBA’s worst record (13-69) and stood the best chance of landing the first pick. They had had some good young wings but no center and no point guard.
The 2005 draft, as luck had it, included both a center (Andrew Bogut of Utah) and three point guards (Paul of Wake Forest, Deron Williams from Illinois and Raymond Felton of North Carolina) cut from high cloth. There was disappointment among Hawks brass when they finished second to Milwaukee in the lottery — everyone knew the Bucks would take Bogut — but they still felt they’d make out OK. And they should have.
Marvin Williams, a freshman forward who’d been North Carolina’s sixth man, scarcely missed a shot in his Atlanta audition, and general manager Billy Knight was smitten. On Draft Night the Hawks left the three point guards on the board, each of whom was snagged by the next three selecting teams. Thus did the Hawks spend their highest pick in 30 years on yet another forward. The team exited the draft as it had entered. Not getting a center was bad luck. Not finding a point guard was bad business.
Five and a half seasons later, the Hawks approach the trading deadline still on the PG prowl. They’ve since spent two first-round picks on the position (Acie Law IV and Jeff Teague) and made two trades importing point guards of a sort (Mike Bibby, Jamal Crawford), but they haven’t yet found the guy capable of running an NBA team in the way NBA team needs to be run.
Their reported/rumored targets this February? Point guards again — Ramon Sessions of Cleveland, Andre Miller of Portland and the recently dealt-t0-Denver Felton. Also included: Washington’s Kirk Hinrich, who has point-guard qualities. The Hawks have decided they can climb no higher with Mike Bibby, which is true now but wasn’t true when he arrived.
In his final act as GM, Knight acquired Bibby from Sacramento in Feburary 2008 at a time when the Hawks were in danger of missing the playoffs for the eighth year running. Bibby helped settle the younger Hawks, who slipped in as the No. 8 seed and carried the champs-to-be Celtics to a Game 7. That was when the Hawks stopped being losers, and it wouldn’t have happened without Bibby.
But Bibby is idiosyncratic: He doesn’t drive to the basket, and he guards nothing that moves. He’s skilled at distributing the ball on the break and he can make a three-point shot, but he couldn’t have been a starting point guard on a good team if that team didn’t have Joe Johnson. Those two like and trust one another, and Bibby doesn’t mind letting Johnson control the ball.
Thing is, Larry Drew’s new share-the-wealth offense features Johnson less, and the upshot has been that nobody is running this team. (Ergo, the offense often is rendered a fusillade of jump shots.) When Crawford enters, his mission is to score, and Teague, of whom much was expected, has delivered nothing.
The East keeps getting better. The Hawks, the No. 3 seed last season, are positioned to be the fifth seed this year. They need to make a personnel move, but it’s unclear if any of those players mentioned will mesh with Johnson. And if Crawford is included in any deal, the Hawks’ second unit becomes substandard. (Bibby as a sub wouldn’t have nearly the effect Crawford does.)
This could have been avoided had Knight made the right pick at the right time. Having Paul or Deron Williams — I preferred the latter, who was just traded to the Nets — would have made the Hawks a playoff team in 2007, perhaps in 2006. No, they wouldn’t have been drafting high enough in 2007 to land Al Horford, but they’d already have been a good team by then.
Without a real point guard, the Hawks wound up getting pretty good anyway. But their way was the harder way, and that way has reached the point of diminishing returns. Five years later, the Hawks still lack their Chris Paul.
By Mark Bradley
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214 comments Add your comment
Mark Bradley
February 23rd, 2011
4:25 pm
The trouble with the Hawks now is that all their tradeable guys are making too much.
John
February 23rd, 2011
4:27 pm
Mark…there’s more trouble than just that! hahahaha
Mr. Mojo
February 23rd, 2011
4:27 pm
I think there should be a new CBA with a franchise tag. These players planning two team up 2-3 years in advance is ruining the NBA. On another note, Just read on Espn the Hawks main trade chip they offered NJ for Harris was Bibby. Sund you are a joke. Obviosuly we cant compete with Utah trading them Deron but this moron Sund knows no one is gonna take Bibby so hes just making these patheitc offers to save face. We are saddled with 2 contracts that total 20MM (Bibby,Marvin,Zaza) for next 2 years nice job Sund. How this guy is a NBA GM i have no idea. ASG you are the worst owners in sports. You hired a terrible GM and an inexpereinced coach because he was the cheapest. you are a disgrace to the NBA and the city of Atlanta. And this comes from a Hawk fan that lives in NY.
Ryan
February 23rd, 2011
4:27 pm
I think everyone can agree that the Hawks messed up that pick in 2005. Either Chris Paul or Deron Williams should have been selected (both are top 5 PG’s in the league). Personally, I was hoping that we drafted Deron and to this day think that he would have been the better pick.
You have to look deeper than simply that one draft pick though. The Hawks pitch to Joe Johnson in that off season was that they would give him all of this money and he would play “PG” for our team and be the number one option on the team, which was the main reason why he decided not to resign with the Suns. I doubt Joe ends up signing with the Hawks had we drafted a point guard. I am not sure what other all-star caliber player would have chosen to sign with the Hawks.
The second item is the drafting of Al Horford in 2007. The Hawks were extremely lucky in the lottery to keep the top 3 protected pick that landed Al. Looking back, had we lost that draft pick I believe it would have really hindered the Hawks. With Chris or Deron, we would have had an even slimmer chance, if any at all, of keeping this draft pick.
Without Joe and Al, I don’t think the Hawks would be in a better situation even with Chris or Deron.
Last thing. We were one pick away from drafting Ty Lawson in 2009. I felt like the Hawks should have moved up a couple spots to get him where he could have backed up Mike Bibby for a year and gradually take over the starting spot. Instead he goes to Denver and we take Jeff Teague with the very next pick, who is struggling to even get playing time now.
Vick Supporter
February 23rd, 2011
4:29 pm
Marvin Williams Sucks. I can hardly watch the games anymore when he’s on the floor
KevinM
February 23rd, 2011
4:38 pm
John, exactly about the Deron deal to NJ….we have assets, we just choose to overvalue them.
Whopper, dead on, we don’t grow our draft picks…we let them figure out what they’re good at….so tired of our ‘interchangeable, unable to match up with us parts’ of a team. We are experts at nothing on this roster, but very flexible at filling different spots on the court.
Tremaine
February 23rd, 2011
4:40 pm
Mark, plead with the hawks to start Teague? Please!
KevinM
February 23rd, 2011
4:41 pm
ryan, i was hoping for Eric Bledsoe and Daniel Orton….got neither, so time will tell on those 2..but they would be glued to the bench under Larry because he has to win now and won’t develop anyone.
You think JC2 is wishing for a fresh start? I bet Teague feels the same way. And Teague’s brother is 2 years away from the pros.
You can bet he won’t be looking at Atlanta for a destination.
KevinM
February 23rd, 2011
4:43 pm
At this point, I’m ready to see Larry Drew II at the point! This is riduculous as much as Bibby getting the lead guard role for a NBA team.
The Game Has Changed
February 23rd, 2011
4:47 pm
How this lineup sounds. PG Joe, SG M.Williams, SF J. Smith, PF Horford C. J. Collins. If we dont make a trade, (which I dont see) we need to change the lineup. I think Joe and Marvin could run the pick and role very well if they worked on it. They could cause matchup problems with their size.
coloradobulldog
February 23rd, 2011
4:48 pm
The problem is not just that missed on Paul (and Deron & Raymond Felton) in 05 Draft. Its that we also took Childress instead of Iguodala in 04. We took Sheldon Williams (when we just had taken Marvin) instead of trading down and getting Rondo in 06. Heck anyone (Roy, Brewer, Reddick) over Sheldon would have been huge but we brought Rondo in for a visit and we needed a PG. And we all know we gave up too much for Joe. We just got lucky that the lottery ball landed in over favor in 07. Anything less than #3 and it would have been handed to PHX.
That and resigning Joe this off season has set us in mediocrity for ever!
John
February 23rd, 2011
4:50 pm
The Game Has Changed: Not a bad idea, but think about Joe chasing around players like Rondo and the very quick PGs in the league…he’d be totally exhausted by the 4th Qtr. And Marvin trying to guard SGs…no chance. Offense might be ok, defense would be a nightmare.
bjohndawg
February 23rd, 2011
4:51 pm
I dont think they have gotten past Dominque Wilkins retiring.
Rick Sund
February 23rd, 2011
4:51 pm
HAwks make a moovvee
bjohndawg
February 23rd, 2011
4:52 pm
I think Phillips Arena and the Omni were build on ancient Indian burial mounds and the facilities are cursed. Hence the bad play. Heck even Prince gave a bad performance at the Phillip.
Cursed I tell you.
The Game Has Changed
February 23rd, 2011
4:54 pm
Tremaine- Teague is not the answer. If anything they need to try Jordan Crawford at point. He can shoot, he is quick and he takes it to the rack with authority
John
February 23rd, 2011
4:56 pm
Not like any of this matters. Atlanta will probably do nothing, as usual. Lose Jamal in the offseason with no return. Sund will talk about how great the “core” is and how he expects Marvin to have a “breakout” year. He’ll put all his faith in Teague running the point, but he’ll never play more than 8 minutes a game. He’ll tell us that Josh matured during the off-season…yet he’ll whine like a little girl with a skinned knee when things don’t go his way…and he’ll avoid all questions about how much money JJ makes…but still got Horford…so it’s not ALL bad. hahaha
JD
February 23rd, 2011
5:03 pm
Bibby had no points and no assists last night. How does that happen in this league? All the other teams in the league are teeing it up for the playoffs and Sund is either sitting still by choice or by budget, but neither is effective. Who wants to see this team play at this point?? Wither the Thrashers??? Someone find us an owner that believes in dynasty building with the budget to support it…..Bernie Marcus where are you??
Tremaine
February 23rd, 2011
5:04 pm
The Game Has Changed- Jordan Crawford is a younger version of Jamal Crawford, not a point guard. He should have came in for Jamal when he was playing like crap last night. Jeff Teague showed that he can push the ball up the floor and make plays against the Lakers. He also played pretty good defense on Steve Blake (Bibby couldn’t stop Derrick Fisher). Teague may not be the answer but how will we know if we don’t give him a chance? “GIVE TEAGUE A CHANCE!”
the real filipino flash
February 23rd, 2011
5:06 pm
the problem with paul or williams is your starting lineup in 2005 wouldve been one of those point guards, joe, smith, harrington and esteban batista, that team wouldnt of fared too well.
now we are in the playoffs so lets forget about the horrible history, we should make a move for a big man, say marcus camby, wes matthews and joel pryzbilla for marvin, jamal and collins/powell
the problem isnt as much pg play as it is, in this motion offense, you got horford (whos gone from catch and shooting that sweet mid ranger to being able to create that opening) and smoove running around away from the basket. A serviceable big man would create that anchor down low so atlanta can avoid blowing double digit leads when the shooters go cold.
Ill take anybody, even Earl Barron, over twin, hes garbage whether hes fat or in shape
Tremaine
February 23rd, 2011
5:06 pm
The Game Has Changed- Teague may not be the answer but we won’t know until we play him. Jordan Crawford is a younger version of Jamal. Shoot first ask questions later. We need a guy who can push the ball and get to the basket. Teague did that last night.
Tremaine
February 23rd, 2011
5:08 pm
The Game Has Changed- how do you know when Teague hasn’t been given a chance? He did score 24 points last year when Bibby was hurt.
kirkinga
February 23rd, 2011
5:13 pm
The real answer is that this core group of players isn’t likely to emerge from the East. The Hawks are more than just “one piece away.”
Skeezix
February 23rd, 2011
5:15 pm
Mark: I see that U. Conn.’s basketball program is still ethically challenged.
And yes, the Hawks not drafting Paul was a huge blunder.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
5:19 pm
“Let’s note: If you’re trading Josh Smith, you’re losing an All-Star caliber player. Not sure Felton or Lawson would make up for that.”
Lawson absolutely would. Maybe not this year, but as soon as next year I could see Lawson contending for an All Star spot. That guy is absolutely legit.
I like Felton, too, but I’d have a hard time trading Smoove for just him. If you’re talking Felton and Nene, though, that’s a trade the Hawks would have to seriously consider.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
5:20 pm
“People shouldn’t be so upset about Deron Williams being traded to NJ..Atlanta had nothing close to what NJ had to offer…NOTHING.”
Co-sign. I hate that D-Will and Harris both got traded with the Hawks not being involved, but there’s really nothing the Hawks have that matches the production of D-Will or the promise of Favors.
Stuart
February 23rd, 2011
5:25 pm
3 team trade: we send Teague and Evans and a 2nd round pick to Cleveland, send Marvin to Houston, Cleveland sends Moon to Houston, and we get Sessions from Cleveland, and Battier and Budinger from Houston. It works on the trade machine.
This would give us depth at power forward, and more of a defensive presence with Battier. It would also be a good fix for the point guard problem; still not much D at the spot, but more facilitating and more movement/driving to the basket. Yes, we would give up Teague and Marvin, both of whom have up sides. But, we need point guard help now, and between Joe, Josh, Jamal, and Al taking shots, will Marvin really get a chance to fully blossom in ATL anyway? I would figure Houston would be interested, as they would get Marvin, a younger SF with much more potential. Cleveland would get a young guard with potential who is cheaper than Sessions, plus a pick for the future (as they’re not going anywhere now). It may have to be contingent upon Battier signing an extension with ATL at the same salary he is making now, just because he is in his last year, and if he leaves, that wouldn’t be worth it. The trade machine gives us 12 more wins with the trade. Given that Cleveland and Houston are essentially shopping these players, why not?
Najeh Davenpoop
February 23rd, 2011
5:25 pm
“Getting rid of Mike Woodson was our biggest mistake.”
Firing Woody to hire LD is like firing Herman Edwards to hire Cam Cameron. Woody is like Herman Edwards — good at relating to and motivating players, but clueless about X’s and O’s, schemes, substitutions, etc. LD is like Cam Cameron — the guy who would be really good as a coordinator but is in over his head as a head coach. Neither one is a good option. What the Hawks should have done is go in a completely different direction; preferably one who has Woody’s player skills and LD’s knowledge of basketball.
Loserville USA
February 23rd, 2011
5:40 pm
We had nothing to offer?
I forgot, most of you just love that genius Josh Smith er……J-SMOOVE (How the heck did HE earn a nickname), who threw 2 passes of the backboard last night…. No court intelligence whatsoever.
Only players of value? Horford. Maybe Collins because of his role. Everyone else — including MR. MAX CONTRACT FAILURE — circles the drain.
Otter
February 23rd, 2011
5:48 pm
I heard that Speedy Claxton is going to be ready to play any day now.
Air Zaza
February 23rd, 2011
5:54 pm
The Hawks
cdog
February 23rd, 2011
6:00 pm
no way mark. you can’t pin the blame on billy knight.knight had the franchise going in the right direcion until he stepped down and allowed us to get this nut rick sund as his replacement.thats the worst thing the franchise could have done.this man has totally almost destroyed the hawks by keeping them at a standstill.if he remains as gm, the hawks are on pace to become the la clippers, the losest franchise in the NBA.
atl
February 23rd, 2011
6:11 pm
no i think darko milicic getten picked b3fore melo was the biggest bust ???????
bigeasy830
February 23rd, 2011
6:17 pm
The Hawks guarantee to Sheldon Williams that they would draft him 5th was the biggest bust.
South ga boy in the Atl
February 23rd, 2011
6:23 pm
Couldn’t agree more, mark. But it goes even deeper. It’s dumb@$$ Knight using 5, yes 5, lottery picks on forwards. Sheldon, chills, and Marvin were wasted picks. And on top of that the 2 good forwards they got play the same damn PF position. What a joke !!!
Honest Truth
February 23rd, 2011
6:26 pm
Najeh Davenpoop: Are you serious? You are one of the guys that usually posts sense on this board.
This is a business, we would have had to pay more money for Woodie to stay when his assistant could deliver close to what he did: +48wins for way cheaper. The overlying issue all of us are missing, and Mark wont admit t is we were, and will continue to be in a bind. We don’t have enough money to invest in talent that can make us a contender.(at least 2 more better than average players) and yet our Conference and Division has become significantly stronger. So, we are stuck because business-wise, our owners aren’t in the same caliber as Orlando, LA, NY or Dallas to spend without guarantees on return on investment.Honestly Hawks nation, we are not going to get Lebron/Melo/Howard type talent to this team in a trade any time soon-it isn’t available.The Hawks will remain mediocre for a while and it wont change barring CHANGE IN OWNERSHIP or The Hawks tanking the season because there is no real long term gain in winning over 45 games for a 4 year stretch in the draft. Mark is right, the 3 missed picks will haunt us for a while, but that’s where we have to go back to-The draft.
ag
February 23rd, 2011
6:47 pm
bjohndog, the Hawks traded Dominque. That actually was the WORST deal in franchise history.
Nahila
February 23rd, 2011
6:49 pm
Johnson was acquired originally to play Point Guard as well as shooting guard so why not play him at Point Guard some.
coolio
February 23rd, 2011
6:55 pm
Damn Get Mo Williams or Roddy Beaubois man.Something gotta be done.upgrade at SF,PG,or C.Man this ish getting old man.Everyone is bypassing the hawks.We are going straight to the bottom and if the Michael Redd comes back healthy and they resign him and they get healthy as a team i see them bypassing us.They shouldve been on the phone making trade when we were getting handled by them without there best 2 players(Redd and Bogut) and they took us to 7 games that tells you something right there
Joe Roo
February 23rd, 2011
7:08 pm
i hope Blatche is part of the deal with the wizards…. if not, then y do it?
Tremaine
February 23rd, 2011
7:16 pm
Terrible organization continue to make terrible decisions.
ag
February 23rd, 2011
7:24 pm
Darko was the 2nd player picked. He was picked ahead of Bosh, Anthony and Wade. He IS the biggest bust, and Detroit still feels the pain. Yet unlike us, they did not draft best player (I think Woody thought that by drafting Marvin), and they chose to fill the position they needed. It backfired. Unlike Atlanta, they did not play him and eventually got rid of him. A close second so far is Thabeet, but I think he will do okay with time on the floor. With a team like Atlanta, all he has to do is rebound and block shots.
Tremaine
February 23rd, 2011
7:29 pm
Mike Bibby might be in the trade for Kirk Hinrich. Please make the deal before 9 so Teague can get the start.
Steve
February 23rd, 2011
7:29 pm
Ouch. DW traded to the Nets. Painful.
I would have like the Hawks to have gotten him, but apparently we aren’t willing to risk anything in trade. Simple fact is, this guy is more important than JJ will ever be, yet we had no problems signing him to max.
I would easily have given up Teague, Marvin and two first rounders for Williams. Given the fact the Hawks first round picks won’t be high enough to get a premier PG, it would be worth it. I guess we will keep drafting gys like Teague, Law and the like late in the draft and hoping we can find gold. Good luck with that.
Oh .. while we are on the topic of horrendous picks by Billy Knight, lets not forget Shelden Williams. UGH!
JSS
February 23rd, 2011
7:29 pm
One name says it all: Shelden Williams! No, Acie Law… No, Salim Stoudamire… No, Jeff Teague… Ugh, get my drift, this team screws up drafts!
Horford is our Savior
February 23rd, 2011
7:34 pm
Imagine if we could buy alcohol on SUNDAY…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TOM_UuQzc0
JSS
February 23rd, 2011
7:36 pm
I said it another blog, no one wants what the Hawks have to offer! This reminds of when the Blazers suckered the Hawks into taking Isiah Rider… Nobody in the league wanted that walking neutron bomb! But here along come the Hawks! The Hawks are hoping to find a sucker… Only 2 teams are that stupid… And even they are leery of taking calls from the 404 area code!
ag
February 23rd, 2011
7:37 pm
It is what it is, so if we would have drafted one of those point guards, we would not have had Hortford.
ag
February 23rd, 2011
7:37 pm
Horford
JSS
February 23rd, 2011
7:41 pm
ag
February 23rd, 2011
6:47 pm
“bjohndog, the Hawks traded Dominque. That actually was the WORST deal in franchise history.”
Sorry, that one is not even close. This franchise drafted and traded BILL RUSSELL! That is the worst trade in pro basketball history!